Clone Wars Volume 2 vs. The Ultimate Computer

WEBVTT

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Welcome to the Track Wars Podcast,
the Internet's exclusive outlet to try and answer

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the ultimate question and fandom, which
is better Star Trek or Star Wars by

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going through both franchises in chronological release
order. I am Kenny Madison, the

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Star Trek contingent, and with me
as Per Always, the co host,

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with the my host, it's being
Aspen Webster. You're a Star Wars friend

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forever and ever despite it all,
I don't know why I said it like

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that. Star Wars. Yeah,
not only that, We've got some excellent

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Star Wars to talk about today as
we review Clone Wars Volume two versus The

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Ultimate Computer Star Trek Season the original
series season two. I'm sorry, I

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love it so much. It's it's
fab. We're We're in for an extremely

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good time today. Actually both they
are so good. What a nice week?

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What a nice week this was?
It was a very nice week,

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because sometimes we don't have nice weeks. Sometimes we don't. Yeah. Sometimes

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I'm like, what are we doing? And you're like, I made a

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spreadsheet? I was pard and I'm
like, thanks for making a spreadsheet,

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Kenny, why are we here?
And you're like, thanks for doing this,

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and I'm like you're lucky. I
love you and that you're a cutity,

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but duty aw I kiss your little
forehead. Thank you. I need

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that moisture. Yeah yeah, drive
scale. That's right, griss very gross.

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But you know what is gross?
Uh? These two things? That

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was no, no, no if
they are great? Uh beautiful, glorious,

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gorgeous, wonderful, everything is nice. I also watched like a billion

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Community episodes too. This has been
a week of me just being like,

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the looks some nice things. What
if I had been like, I've been

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having a sad week. What if
I had been like, Okay, I'm

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having a sad week. Time to
sit down and watch some Star Trek and

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it was like, oh it was
I was like, give me a ship

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one the alternative factor. It was
the alternative factor obsession. It was the

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Gamesters of Triskellian, like you know, or that one with the fucking white

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blonde people. Yeah, Like imagine
if that had been the case, I

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would have been like, Kenny,
I'm so mad at you. Personally has

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nothing to do with this or Chance. I just feel like, h no.

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Instead, instead, Chance has brought
us here to this glorious moment of

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making a bad week just a little
bit better. I'm speaking. This is

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the vibe, This will be the
vibe, speaking of sinking to the deep

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dark depression. Why don't we go
ahead and try and lift people that are

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playing the home game and we're able
to watch these things with us aspen,

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shall we Let's do it. No
more depression for you, No more depression

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unless that's what you want, in
which case we fully support you. And

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if you're having problems, Google low
fee therapy or Duck duck, go it.

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But we're not talking about therapy.
We're talking about the Ultimate Computer,

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and we Colonell's William too. Here's
the synopsis for The Ultimate Computer, aired

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March eighth, nineteen sixty eight.
Story by Lawrence M. Wolf telplay by

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DC Fontana and directed by John Meredith
Lucas from Steven ain't Shauer, reviewing this

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for the Tvkey previews Ultimate Computer,
using as its focal point that the debate

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today about man being replaced by computers
will still be a pertinent issue in the

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time of the Enterprise. This drama
illustrates what happens when a machine purported to

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be perfect is given absolute control of
the spaceship as usual in Star Trek,

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the problem post here is more exciting
than its conclusion. In this case,

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the computer has been programmed by an
in bitter genius, but the attitude of

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the regulars toward the machine's potential remains
fascinating, and the actions of the starship

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under the computer's command will sustain your
interest throughout this story. Thank you,

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Steven Ate Sure, thanks Steven,
Thanks buddy. I don't know, I

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don't know. It's funny. I
also saw some people being like the end

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of this. I'm like, listen, I've seen Kirk argue with a lot

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of computers. This was the best
version of it. So anyway, ah,

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is it time for me? It
is time for you? Ask them?

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Ah? Yes, okay, So
last week it's the same because we're

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watching Star Wars Clone Wars, the
second volume. Yes, same folks.

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But I'll just say it again,
which is that it was released, uh

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November seventh, two thousand and three, and it is of course created by

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Jendy Tartakowski as main director and writer. There's a few other folks who are

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part of the story in writing as
well. There are, indeed, but

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who cares? Am I right?
Just kidding? Those people really matter?

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Sh I say all their names I'll
find I'll find them. You keep doing

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no, no, no, no, no, listen, listen, I'm

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gonna say it. Brian Andrews,
Derek Bachman, Paul Reddish. Okay,

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just those guys, Andy and Gendy. Of course, Gandy, Gandyy.

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They keep saying gend His name should
be Gendy. Ah. No, we

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should pronounce people's names correctly. Ass
been Okay. I'm gonna read the summary

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from Wikipedia for this volume two because
it's not too long. The five chapters

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lasting twelve to fifteen minutes each to
give the audience a look at Obi Wan

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Kenobi and Anakin skyworkers adventures in the
Outer Rimed Territories. Anakin is Knight is

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a Jedi Knight, and Corossont comes
under attack by the Confederacy of Independent Systems.

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This theen serves as a diversion for
General Grievous and the Droid Army to

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sneak in and capture Supreme Chancellor Palpatine
from Corussant season three. I guess that's

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what they're calling it. Kind of
like the ending part of it delves deeply

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into and focuses mostly on Anakin's story
and the relationship between him and Obi Wan

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Kenobi, while also showing their struggles
during the war. It builds up many

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of the events leading to Revenge of
the Sith as it takes place closer to

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the to the film's time frame.
It's also an immediate lead and to Revenge

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the Sith, the opening scene of
which takes place only minutes after the end

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of chapter twenty five. Although the
season three chapters are still action oriented,

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the longer running time allot for more
dialogue between characters. Sure did. I

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did notice that there's a lot more
longer, kind of like conversational pieces in

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this one that there was in Volume
one, which was a lot more kind

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of like shorter, faster action,
which is beautiful and brilliant in terms of

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like structure and shape of show.
So god, it was so good.

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God, it was great. We
had two dare I say gonna say it,

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dear Dare, like these are just
perfect pieces of these franchises, perfect

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beautiful like this is this is,
Dare I say, the ultimate week of

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trek Wars dere dere. Yeah,
I don't think it's as often And it's

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not like we had like City on
the Edge of Forever with like Empire,

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you know, which would have been
a perfect week kind of thing. You

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know, that would have been my
ten and my ten, right, this

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is like my nine and my nine. Not to give it away. Yeah,

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I mean sometimes like Star Wars is
really good. Sometimes Star Trek is

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really good, very rarely unless like
there's a purposeful pairing like Empire versus Star

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Trek two, Right, are there
like two Juggernauts? And this week the

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question of which is better Star Trek
or Star Wars is going to be an

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extremely fun question to answer. I
don't even know. Yeah, we'll get

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to it. I mean I think
I do know, but it's like barely

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barely only by like small tiny point
one. Yes, yeah, like we're

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getting into granularity. That's stupid,
truly truly ultimate computer. I think an

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episode which was probably at least according
to these are The Voyage season two by

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Mark Cushman, a highly regarded episode
that I think in our twenty twenty four

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context has just gotten the most relevant. I'm so glad that you loved it

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too. Like, I don't know, is it as beloved as we are

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talking about it, because I've never
really heard it talked about like I've heard

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other episodes talked about. Yeah,
I think This is also regarded as one

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of the iconic episodes good. I
think that says a lot for my taste

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in a vacuum. Yeah, because
you know, I mean, sometimes you're

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like, well, this is an
iconic episode, it must be good,

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Whereas I genuinely canny to answer the
question you're going to ask me, I'd

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never seen this episode. Had you
seen this episode before? I had not

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only never seen this episode before,
I had just like I just said,

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never heard of this episode. Yeah, And so I sat down and I

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literally thought to myself, my goodness, another versus the machine episode blah blah

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blah or like smart creatures in machines
or in balls or brains or something.

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And I was like, and then
I was like, it just absolutely entranced

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by it every moment. It's as
opposed to look, Kirk talking a computer

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to death has happened, at least
according to Mark Cushman, three other times

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in Return of the Arkans where he
talks Lander to death, the Changeling where

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he talks moment to death, and
then in Eyemud where the crew of the

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Enterprise talks to the robots to death. Robots and you know, Kirk versus

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technology Kirk versus industrialization certainly is a
new theme, which is also ironic considering

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that they're going around in a spaceship, which is just the absolute embodiment of

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its mechanization and action, because you're
literally in space. But there is a

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far more existential question that is being
asked at the heart of the ultimate Computer

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that feels so real it now.
And then not only that, but anchored

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by a marvelous performance, Oh my
God, by our guy Richard Daystrom Blacula

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himself, Blacula himself. There are
a couple of moments where I was like,

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what's this guy from William Marshall,
and I only I haven't seen Blacula.

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It is a blind spot before me, and I mean that with sincerity.

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I have not seen it. The
only other performance that I recall having

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seen William Marshall in is a marvelous
exer like a genuinely great Exorcist rip off

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called Abby, which you can find
in its entirety on YouTube. Highly recommend

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it. He plays the Exorcist.
It's right, it's great, it rules.

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I love it. It's a good
time, you know. One of

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the first thoughts I had was,
well, I'm glad we have another prominent

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black man who's not just a doctor
this time. Yeah, because I was

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thinking, I was thinking very particularly. I was like, this is especially

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since oh god, what's the doctor's
name? What are is doctor? But

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banga? Yeah yeah, And I
was like the conversation we had around that

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where the actor was like, you
know, I I what are we doing

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here? And I think that there's
a real Like I was like, this

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is good. More of this of
you know, different types of people.

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Uh, Like you get to be
a varied individual, Like you're a black

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man who's in this space, is
being complex, you are a valued part

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of this community. And also you
are like many things in a nuanced character,

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so you more than one line of
dialogue, and you're not just a

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doctor, right. William Marshall has
so much gravitas. Oh god, and

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then not only that, but gets
to play I mean it's just a great

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character. Yeah, I mean,
it's just a really it's just a character

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that uh can seem hand fisted at
the time maybe, but then again you

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look at it now and you're just
like they the only thing that they I

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would have changed is that this character
would be less earnest, right, I

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mean, there's I know, right, like now, I'm like, wow,

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this is really the poptimistic version of
this, which is the idea of

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a person who I guess yeah,
for for more clarification for people, he

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creates this, I mean you said
it in the summary, but he creates

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this AI to run ships, a
true artificial intelligence, that's true intelligence that

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thinks yes and is able to is
able to generate original thought and like,

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although his own that is into a
debate which they have in the episode.

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Yeah, I mean, I think
it's just very very thoughtful about what it's

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presenting and his idea, his original
concept. I mean, it's it's very

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much base in his own pride,
as it is to be human, which

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is to be like look, I'm
actually like valuable. Look what I can

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provide to the world, to the
galaxy, to humankind. But also it

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is based in a desire to prevent
death, like he out louds like he

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explicitly says, I want to be
able to use AI to reduce the number

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of crewmen on a ship so that
we have less fewer casualties. He recognizes

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the danger of the premise of Star
Trek, which is sending four hundred and

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thirty souls out into the nothingness and
it's it is a ludicrous notion that is

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inherently dangerous. But the difference is
that those four hundred and thirty souls chose

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it. Yes, they chose the
danger. It did drive me to ask,

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uh, well, what it's the
point the enterprise? Like, what

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is the point? And I think
which is the question of the episode?

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Yes, such a good question.
It is a good question. But you

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know what, it's a good question
that they never they never like explicitly asked,

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but they are asking the whole time. Yes, like, which I

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think is that what makes it very
special? Is I mean, I'm here

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for obviousness, be obvious as much
as possible, But I think it's subtle

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Ty is for cowards. Subtlety is
for cowards. However, they own the

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matrix resurrections. Oh my god,
get out of here. It's not it's

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on steel book. Look at that
aspen. Some some properties could stand to

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be a little more subtle. No, not that black cat. There's a

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black cat on the back of my
steel book. So it's not being subtle,

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but nor is it being obvious in
the like it's doing that thing where

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it's asking a lot of questions but
it's never like, what is it to

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be a exploring the cosmos? Like, yeah, we know we're here.

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We've been watching Star Trek for years
now, right. It's asking that question,

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but it's like doing it. It's
asking lots of questions to around it,

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and like, I just find it. Shatner. First off, we

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left Shatner. We stand a legend. We we are weirdly fucking standing Kirk

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and I don't understand what's here's my
captain's collection of all of the documentaries that

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Shatner's directed. Huh, or at
least he said that he directed. I

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don't know if that's actually true,
because Shatner is a twerp. He's a

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twerp. We don't stand Shatner,
but we stand Shatner. We stand,

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We stand Shatner, but we hate
him. Seriously, beautiful scene so complex

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of Commodore Wesley has just pronounced him
as Captain dunzill O God because because the

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M five has performed perfectly, Commodore
Wesley calls him Captain dunzil Shatner does about

203
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face walks off the bridge. They
explain that duncil is a redundant piece of

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equipment, and then the scene between
McCoy and Kirk after that, where McCoy

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brings some drinks and Kirk is like, I have never felt this way.

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Yes, And it's not played with
dread. It's played with this weird mixture

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of delight and fear. It is
it's such an unusual choice to make there,

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but it's perfect. And it raises
even more questions because who Kirk is

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now asking who can he be?
Right? What is what is not?

210
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Just who who am I? If
I am not the captain of the Enterprise?

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But who can I be? If
not the captain of the enterprise?

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If that job is done? What
else is out there for me? Like?

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00:17:44.799 --> 00:17:48.319
There there is an adventuring tone asked
to it, which is so?

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00:17:48.640 --> 00:17:52.480
Which is so? It's so interesting, It's so interesting. Oh man,

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the more that I talk about this
episode and I'm just like, what if

216
00:17:55.359 --> 00:17:59.720
we just nominate it for Best Picture? Yeah? Right now? It Actually

217
00:18:00.680 --> 00:18:07.960
I totally agree the way that he
plays his fear in sadness, his trepidation,

218
00:18:07.319 --> 00:18:11.880
or his like curiosity, Like,
it's very fascinating. It's very interesting.

219
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I am with you, and it
makes me curious because I do think,

220
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oh god, I mean, I
think I've often questioned, makes sense.

221
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Yeah, like what drives in a
world where you don't have to work?

222
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Like it's a true utopia. Yeah, you don't have to if you

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don't want to. We're not there
yet, oh okay, but those ideas

224
00:18:45.519 --> 00:18:49.000
of we fix the problems are still
kind of percolating there, I think.

225
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I mean, the rules of Star
Trek are nebulous, but the thing that

226
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we understand as a baseline is that
things are much better. So this this

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show has so far original series has
so far claimed that work is essential to

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being a human being, Yes,
very much so, which I disagree with.

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I do not think work is essential
to being a human being. I

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think connection and purpose are I think
naps are essential defining a human connection and

231
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purpose and naps and ice cream and
kissing and kippy kits. Okay, there's

232
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lots of things that are essential.
And but yeah, because there's a difference

233
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to me, I remember, it
always goes all the way back to the

234
00:19:48.880 --> 00:19:52.119
like what was it the side of
Paradise maybe, or but it's just like

235
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the ones that are like, well
you just stopped speaking, you stopped your

236
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manifest destiny, which I actively disagree
with, but I do not disagree with

237
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the idea that it is inspiring and
extraordinary to explore, not to take over,

238
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but to learn, to continually learn, because learning means we're always expanding,

239
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we're always growing, and that cannot
be replicated. Like that is a

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human or in this case of you
know, Star Trek, not just human,

241
00:20:32.880 --> 00:20:37.039
but like that is a something that
is defining of who we are,

242
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Spock being on the side of the
M five and on the side of doctor

243
00:20:44.640 --> 00:20:49.559
Dastrom. Yeah, a thing very
much being like this is an efficient tool

244
00:20:49.599 --> 00:20:56.440
that is exceeding all specifications. But
at the same time, Kirk is explaining

245
00:20:56.480 --> 00:21:03.480
his anxiety as any and goes,
it is an efficient machine, but I

246
00:21:03.519 --> 00:21:07.119
have no desire to serve serve it. I don't want to serve. I

247
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want a starship runs on loyalty to
one man, which also was like I

248
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was like an interesting I don't think
this is a great man thing, but

249
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I do think it. Also I
started thinking about this is what a good

250
00:21:18.359 --> 00:21:22.000
Startork episode does. I like start
thinking about a whole bunch of themes,

251
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and I'm like, yes, Kirk
is often like presented as a great man,

252
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but also it does go to show
like what a true leader can be

253
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in terms of inspiration for others.
Yes, and a good leader of course

254
00:21:37.680 --> 00:21:41.839
helps others to be the best they
can be, to become, you know,

255
00:21:41.279 --> 00:21:44.480
to do what they need to do, whether it's to become their own

256
00:21:44.519 --> 00:21:48.680
leader or with like you know,
but to feel empowered. And I think

257
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that is the difference here of like
other ways that I've heard this presentage of

258
00:21:52.720 --> 00:21:57.079
like Kirk being special, Kirk is
not special. No, And I think

259
00:21:57.079 --> 00:22:02.759
that's something that is fun well,
even the franchise misinterprets it itself. But

260
00:22:02.839 --> 00:22:07.759
the thing that makes Star Trek so
exciting for me is that these are supposed

261
00:22:07.799 --> 00:22:11.039
to be normal schmoked well, and
I don't think the show. I don't

262
00:22:11.079 --> 00:22:14.799
think it's been misinterpreted. I think
the show has said that he is not

263
00:22:14.880 --> 00:22:17.519
a normal schmo like I think the
show has. And I think that's what

264
00:22:17.599 --> 00:22:22.000
makes this episode actually better is that
it's not reckconing any of that of course

265
00:22:22.000 --> 00:22:29.240
by any means, but it is
like making more space for space, God

266
00:22:29.920 --> 00:22:38.119
is making more space for like.
It's not like he's special, he's he

267
00:22:38.200 --> 00:22:42.160
is deeply charismatic, and he is
smart, but he also has worked hard

268
00:22:42.319 --> 00:22:48.920
and has done like he has all
of his commendations because of his commitment and

269
00:22:49.400 --> 00:22:55.799
people like that that have like he
doesn't just have followers, he has friends

270
00:22:56.880 --> 00:23:02.640
and that's important, Like he has
people that love him because he is trustworthy,

271
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because he is ethical, because he
is kind and you know, and

272
00:23:07.119 --> 00:23:12.119
so I think that is a differentiation
point for me of ways that I've felt

273
00:23:12.759 --> 00:23:18.440
like, I think and lesser with
lesser writing, you know, like lesser

274
00:23:18.440 --> 00:23:22.880
writing what you could just be very
like a total lack of nuance about who

275
00:23:22.960 --> 00:23:25.880
is Kirk? What is his relationship
to fuck? And maybe that's like,

276
00:23:25.960 --> 00:23:30.559
ultimately why this episode feels so exceptional, because it's being thoughtful about fucking everything,

277
00:23:30.640 --> 00:23:34.400
my dude, Like nothing is ever
like it's just this one thing.

278
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It's like, well it could be
this and this, which to me is

279
00:23:38.000 --> 00:23:44.440
ultimately And do we think it's because
of my girl? Do I think that's

280
00:23:44.480 --> 00:23:52.880
why it's so good? One percent? Oh my god, one thousand percent,

281
00:23:52.079 --> 00:24:00.119
one thousand percent. Yes, And
of course my girl being Gisy there's

282
00:24:00.200 --> 00:24:06.599
only really one girl that could be
unfortunately, yes, Like I feel like

283
00:24:06.680 --> 00:24:11.160
her work sometimes she's had these like
little Black episodes, but I feel like

284
00:24:11.160 --> 00:24:12.880
it's because other people came in and
fucked with her writing. But this time

285
00:24:14.039 --> 00:24:18.640
she fucked with someone else's writing and
I can only assume made it better.

286
00:24:18.039 --> 00:24:22.119
Yeah. Uh, let's let's do
a little bit of deep dive. Well

287
00:24:22.160 --> 00:24:26.359
we haven't talked about our first time. I understand, but like this is

288
00:24:26.519 --> 00:24:29.559
this is important. Okay, it's
okay, we'll talk about Star Wars.

289
00:24:32.880 --> 00:24:37.720
Uh. Okay, So DC Fontana, DC Fontana, Dorothy Fontana. Uh,

290
00:24:40.440 --> 00:24:44.240
here we go. Fontana proved herself
from of course, these are the

291
00:24:44.279 --> 00:24:48.000
Voyage season two from Mark Cushman.
Uh. Dorothy Fontana proved herself to be

292
00:24:48.039 --> 00:24:49.759
a good stand in for the departed
Gene Coon when it came to keeping the

293
00:24:49.759 --> 00:24:53.400
intrinsic humor in place in Star Trek, especially in respect to the teasing between

294
00:24:53.480 --> 00:25:00.720
McCoy and Spot. Uh. And
then not only that. Uh oh actually

295
00:25:00.759 --> 00:25:07.640
sorry, can I interrupt you?
Absolutely? You can just to quote to

296
00:25:07.759 --> 00:25:11.279
quote McCoy. Yeah, man,
did you see the love light in Spock's

297
00:25:11.359 --> 00:25:15.880
eye? The right computer finally came
along? McCoy. Do you know what

298
00:25:15.960 --> 00:25:19.200
McCoy's first line is in this episode? Well? Was it? I can't

299
00:25:19.200 --> 00:25:23.599
remember. I will just give you
three guesses. Think about who McCoy is

300
00:25:25.079 --> 00:25:29.240
and what is that stake in terms
of technology kind of eliminating the rules.

301
00:25:30.119 --> 00:25:33.519
It is a perfect McCoy line that
is just really simple. It's not like

302
00:25:33.599 --> 00:25:38.599
anything special, but like it is
McCoy his relationship to Kirk, relationship to

303
00:25:38.640 --> 00:25:42.680
Star Trek in one line, I
literally watched this. Sure, Kirk,

304
00:25:42.720 --> 00:25:47.079
you can't let a computer run the
ship. You're so close. Simplify it,

305
00:25:48.480 --> 00:25:52.319
Kirk, a computer, Jim a
computer. No, oh, you're

306
00:25:52.400 --> 00:25:56.759
so close, Aspen, you're so
close. Guess number three. Here we

307
00:25:56.839 --> 00:26:06.279
go, simplify it, Kirk.
Nope, take it back, Jim,

308
00:26:06.440 --> 00:26:12.839
No, Aspen, you're so close. His first line is I don't like

309
00:26:12.880 --> 00:26:18.279
it. Jim, all right,
she said that. Let's see right,

310
00:26:18.519 --> 00:26:22.480
it's very simple. Doesn't even you
just put that line in any episode of

311
00:26:22.559 --> 00:26:26.319
Star Trek. Have that be McCoy's
first line. You're like, yeah,

312
00:26:26.440 --> 00:26:30.880
of course he's against whatever the central
conceit is because he's full of emotion and

313
00:26:30.920 --> 00:26:34.440
he wants people to love each other. So it is funny. This episode

314
00:26:34.920 --> 00:26:38.839
chicily does call out the fact that
like McCoy gets included in things and it's

315
00:26:38.880 --> 00:26:47.279
like, why is McCoy here.
It's because he's my friend, our girl.

316
00:26:47.359 --> 00:26:51.079
DC did a page one rewrite.
Here we go because this episode,

317
00:26:51.119 --> 00:26:55.440
the story credit was by Lawrence and
Woolf. Lawrence and Wolf had never saw

318
00:26:55.559 --> 00:27:00.599
the screenplay. He was a mathematician
with an interest in computers. But what

319
00:27:00.720 --> 00:27:06.839
he did have is that he knew
Ray Bradberry. Ray Bradberry was friendly with

320
00:27:06.920 --> 00:27:14.240
Gene rodden Berry, so as a
favor to Lawrence Wolf, Ray Bradberry passed

321
00:27:14.279 --> 00:27:18.599
the script onto Star Trek uh and
then as a favorite of Ray Bradberry Roddenberry

322
00:27:18.720 --> 00:27:22.599
Reddit roden Berry wants Ray Bradberry to
write for a Star Truck because that just

323
00:27:22.640 --> 00:27:26.799
gives him more credit. Because Roddenberry
is playing like six dimensional chests and being

324
00:27:26.839 --> 00:27:30.319
like, if I get this science
fiction author on this, then this will

325
00:27:30.359 --> 00:27:33.839
make Star Trek even more popular,
which means that I will have a job

326
00:27:33.880 --> 00:27:40.720
even longer. Wait getting yeah,
boss, the mathematician whose name is Lawrence

327
00:27:41.440 --> 00:27:47.599
Lawrence, Lawrence and Wolf, I
too did slight research right right. It

328
00:27:47.680 --> 00:27:56.920
was basically, oh gosh, no, God, damn it. Ah.

329
00:27:56.039 --> 00:27:59.720
Can you think if I didn't what
would have happened? If I didn't find

330
00:27:59.720 --> 00:28:03.799
that a clause button in time I
was, it would have been fine.

331
00:28:07.880 --> 00:28:12.240
That's what it was. Based on
his fascination with computers, So question did

332
00:28:12.279 --> 00:28:17.799
he just write a script or did
he write a Star Trek script? Hmm,

333
00:28:18.119 --> 00:28:22.319
that's an excellent question. I don't
rightly know because a part of me,

334
00:28:22.720 --> 00:28:27.400
you know how, there's this kind
of conversation around Star Wars and the

335
00:28:27.440 --> 00:28:32.119
Acolyte we've talked about, which is
like there's at least there's a couple of

336
00:28:32.119 --> 00:28:34.200
writers who aren't really that familiar with
Star Wars that are working on it.

337
00:28:34.240 --> 00:28:37.559
People are like, oh, it's
like, well, I mean it's it's

338
00:28:37.720 --> 00:28:42.039
very helpful. Well that's a good
thing. Like you get to get and

339
00:28:42.079 --> 00:28:47.519
I want and I wonder if part
of like the magic of this is that

340
00:28:47.559 --> 00:28:51.519
it's not necessarily someone being like I'm
writing a Star Trek story and like getting

341
00:28:51.599 --> 00:28:53.039
kind of up your own butt about
it. But it's like someone who wrote

342
00:28:53.039 --> 00:28:56.720
a story and then like I know
you're about to read more, but like

343
00:28:56.839 --> 00:29:00.400
DC coming in and like making it
a good Star Trek story. Oh so

344
00:29:00.880 --> 00:29:06.519
yeah, sorry, continue. Uh. They asked Wolf to do some rewrites.

345
00:29:07.759 --> 00:29:12.359
He didn't exactly carry them out because
like somebody, like so many writers

346
00:29:12.440 --> 00:29:15.680
are like, well this is you
know, this is mine. I wanted

347
00:29:15.720 --> 00:29:21.119
to be my way right here we
go. It truly is a thing all

348
00:29:21.200 --> 00:29:25.480
right from the book. John Meredith
Lucas was in a hurry to find something

349
00:29:25.519 --> 00:29:30.079
worth shooting. Bob Jusman, supervising
producer, needed something that could be produced

350
00:29:30.160 --> 00:29:34.079
easily. All of this stuff happens
on the ship, and even whenever it

351
00:29:34.079 --> 00:29:38.319
cuts to a different ships still the
enterprise and Roddenberry was still hoping to convince

352
00:29:38.400 --> 00:29:41.880
Ray Bradberry to try his hand at
writing for Star Trek. Wolf happened to

353
00:29:41.920 --> 00:29:45.920
be in the right place, at
the right time, the right material,

354
00:29:47.359 --> 00:29:52.960
and then John Meredith Lucas had,
because they needed episodes, had Fontana begin

355
00:29:53.039 --> 00:29:56.279
her page one rewrite of The Ultimate
Computer during the final days of November,

356
00:29:56.440 --> 00:30:00.160
with production slated to begin in little
more than a week. So not only

357
00:30:00.200 --> 00:30:07.319
did DC carry this out, she
delivered Star Trek Scripts Operate with five acts,

358
00:30:07.400 --> 00:30:10.240
the teas are An, Act one, the first two acts delivered on

359
00:30:10.240 --> 00:30:14.279
a Friday, the digital act written
each day over the weekend, finishing on

360
00:30:14.359 --> 00:30:18.000
Monday. NBC received the teas are
An Act on a Friday, and Acts

361
00:30:18.000 --> 00:30:22.160
two and three on Monday, followed
by Act four on Tuesday, December fifth,

362
00:30:22.799 --> 00:30:30.960
and I believe they went into production
on December seventh. Wow, a

363
00:30:30.039 --> 00:30:34.519
rush job. Wow, that's like
some of George lucashit right there. That's

364
00:30:34.559 --> 00:30:44.400
not no, it's like this like
Tyakowski ship writing Clone Wars in two weeks.

365
00:30:44.759 --> 00:30:48.759
Oh god, So not only are
you a student being like my girl,

366
00:30:48.839 --> 00:30:56.799
Dorothy delivered, yeah, over delivered, classic, classic, and you

367
00:30:56.839 --> 00:30:59.960
know what, we should give her
so much credit for it, true,

368
00:31:00.359 --> 00:31:06.880
give her an oscar because Roddenberry is
doing his a great man politicking and gene

369
00:31:06.920 --> 00:31:11.039
Kun is exhausted working on Star Trek
because he doesn't want to deal with all

370
00:31:11.079 --> 00:31:14.359
the politics, and it's an extremely
hard job because no one's ever made a

371
00:31:14.400 --> 00:31:18.880
Star Trek before they're Star Track,
So he's having to answer a whole bunch

372
00:31:18.880 --> 00:31:23.640
of existential questions in terms of production
and being like how do we make this

373
00:31:23.720 --> 00:31:30.279
stuff work? And then not only
all of this, John Meredith Lucas was

374
00:31:30.319 --> 00:31:37.920
the director of this episode. They
allocated seven days and he used six so

375
00:31:38.640 --> 00:31:45.000
like, oh my god, it's
all of these elements. It's the weird

376
00:31:45.039 --> 00:31:48.559
things in art where just all these
elements came along at the exact right time

377
00:31:48.599 --> 00:31:53.319
to make something that is truly special. I love it. Isn't that incredible?

378
00:31:53.799 --> 00:32:00.960
I love it so much. I
want to rewatch it very rarely saying

379
00:32:00.039 --> 00:32:02.920
that we can't rewatch it because we
still have to talk about Clone Wars.

380
00:32:04.400 --> 00:32:09.200
Let's just watch it right now.
Then let's watch Clone Wars together. Let's

381
00:32:09.200 --> 00:32:15.599
just do it. Let's just watch
things together, more watching together. If

382
00:32:15.640 --> 00:32:17.480
you we could just hang out more? Do you want to just hang out

383
00:32:17.519 --> 00:32:22.759
more? Yea assassment? I mean, wait, hang out a lot.

384
00:32:22.119 --> 00:32:24.160
Do you wanna do you want to
come to Plano with me and watch all

385
00:32:24.160 --> 00:32:30.799
the Star Wars? Oh? Fuck? Gross? How are you going to

386
00:32:30.000 --> 00:32:35.240
plane ow? That's the closest place
of where this Skywalkers out goes playing.

387
00:32:35.920 --> 00:32:46.000
Oh ooh sorry, oh god,
I'm so sorry. Clone Wars Volume two

388
00:32:46.400 --> 00:32:52.160
again again, beats back, the
whole team's back. I love it.

389
00:32:52.480 --> 00:32:58.720
George Lucas loved it even better.
George Lucas's son loved it and was just

390
00:32:58.759 --> 00:33:00.759
like, I need to see what
happens next. I need to see what

391
00:33:00.839 --> 00:33:07.920
happens next. Maybe it was always
from archives. Gdy Tartakovski is like,

392
00:33:08.880 --> 00:33:13.799
Gy is like that was really hard. I don't really want to do it

393
00:33:13.839 --> 00:33:19.400
again, and he's like, do
it again. But then Lucas is like,

394
00:33:21.839 --> 00:33:24.480
there's a battle of couruseant. Would
you like to animate the opening crawl

395
00:33:24.519 --> 00:33:30.640
of Star Wars episode three, Oh, Kenny, and I have to tell

396
00:33:30.680 --> 00:33:37.920
you something about that battle. Of
course, Lant Mace Wind do Mace Wind

397
00:33:37.400 --> 00:33:45.519
pops in and goes the city is
under attack, and I said the hall

398
00:33:45.599 --> 00:33:52.039
plan. I yes, like poetry. So if they rhyme. I was

399
00:33:52.079 --> 00:33:55.759
like, what part Mace the other
side of the planet where it's still a

400
00:33:55.839 --> 00:34:02.039
city, more specific out neighborhood,
and Mace busts and he's like, uptown

401
00:34:02.119 --> 00:34:14.639
is under siege. He's just like, Wow, Riottville, little Italy's under

402
00:34:14.639 --> 00:34:22.599
a try it sound what if it's
like tiny Cao's gonna be like mon Calomar

403
00:34:23.440 --> 00:34:35.679
the neighborhood. Yeah, so good, mon Calamito because it's small moo yeah

404
00:34:35.760 --> 00:34:37.360
yeah yeah yeah dude. By the
way, have I told you much?

405
00:34:37.400 --> 00:34:45.599
I love Coraissant. There's this like
bit where uh Anakin is like walking through

406
00:34:45.639 --> 00:34:52.000
the streets of Corassant. It's beautiful. There's all these different characters around him.

407
00:34:52.440 --> 00:34:54.360
And I mean that in the terms
of like their characters. It's like

408
00:34:54.719 --> 00:34:58.400
it's been look rough, like you
know, it's like, oh, what's

409
00:34:58.400 --> 00:35:00.119
that? Who's that? And there's
like a figure fallollowing him. And though

410
00:35:00.400 --> 00:35:07.480
I love the depths of Chorissant with
all of my heart. So Anakin's walking

411
00:35:07.519 --> 00:35:12.840
your choruson and uh, not only
that, there's a shaft of light ah

412
00:35:12.880 --> 00:35:17.360
that is shining on him because Gendhi
is not afraid to beat expressionistic, expressionistic

413
00:35:17.559 --> 00:35:21.599
where's the light coming from, the
same place music is coming from? Worry

414
00:35:21.599 --> 00:35:23.000
about it? Don't worry about it. Who goes a shit? You?

415
00:35:24.519 --> 00:35:30.320
I don't. Oh no, it's
a funny way. Believe it in a

416
00:35:30.320 --> 00:35:34.320
funny way. Yeah, yeah,
yeah, yeah, you fucking fascist.

417
00:35:34.360 --> 00:35:37.440
Don't bleed me out because I'm nasty. Yeah no, I leave you unbleed.

418
00:35:37.760 --> 00:35:43.559
I'm nasty. Oh, but then
the hooded figure is bad. Man.

419
00:35:43.639 --> 00:35:47.039
They kiss, They kiss so much. They kiss more than they kiss

420
00:35:47.119 --> 00:35:52.320
in all of the actual like not
the actual the live action films. They

421
00:35:52.400 --> 00:35:57.039
kiss so much, Kenny, I
loved it, Yeah, because I buy

422
00:35:57.039 --> 00:36:00.199
this relationship in Colne Wars more than
I buy it was two in three.

423
00:36:00.360 --> 00:36:09.320
Because understands human emotions, right then, George Lucas does. There's so much

424
00:36:10.119 --> 00:36:15.480
that happens, and I so,
I guess because I clearly did. I

425
00:36:15.519 --> 00:36:17.559
was. You've never seen this before. I've never seen this before. Also,

426
00:36:17.719 --> 00:36:22.360
sad. So I was like,
I'm just going to watch some stuff,

427
00:36:22.400 --> 00:36:24.519
but I'm not going to do my
research. No, I did some

428
00:36:24.559 --> 00:36:34.320
research. What I was I gonna
say, I fuck you, fuck yeah,

429
00:36:34.719 --> 00:36:40.159
fuck yeah. I didn't realize that
this second volume was released, that

430
00:36:40.280 --> 00:36:45.039
was it was like released step like
after because I remember I was like,

431
00:36:45.039 --> 00:36:47.239
oh, yes, that was his
first one. In these like more three

432
00:36:47.280 --> 00:36:51.800
minutes shorter like action packed ones,
and then it is significant. I mean,

433
00:36:51.840 --> 00:36:53.239
we can't tell this though, right
because it's like you're watching it all

434
00:36:53.320 --> 00:36:58.280
is all one big volume too,
but I could tell the whole story is

435
00:36:58.320 --> 00:37:01.440
one big volume. Yeah, there
was there was long or stretches of things

436
00:37:01.480 --> 00:37:04.800
with a lot more dialogue, and
so I was like, is this still

437
00:37:04.840 --> 00:37:07.320
all three minutes? And I didn't
look it up now, so that makes

438
00:37:07.320 --> 00:37:10.840
more sense to me. They were
instill three minute episodes. They were twelp

439
00:37:10.880 --> 00:37:15.960
mint episodes, and you can you
can feel it it's getting into more stuff.

440
00:37:17.559 --> 00:37:23.199
There's it's actually it's fascinating too because
there's so many things that speaking of

441
00:37:23.239 --> 00:37:29.840
expressionistic like it's one of the best
uses of like like montage type of peace

442
00:37:29.880 --> 00:37:34.679
I've ever seen of like just showing
the extent of the war because you have

443
00:37:34.719 --> 00:37:38.920
to show so many battles, you
have to show this growth of character and

444
00:37:39.079 --> 00:37:45.199
like this characterization just through a lot
of visuals. Coming back seeing Padme again,

445
00:37:45.239 --> 00:37:47.519
the sadness of it when he gets
his scar and the way she touches

446
00:37:47.559 --> 00:37:52.480
his scar, like ooh, there's
like no words at all, It's just

447
00:37:52.519 --> 00:38:04.840
shadows and expressions and touches. Help
me. He understands visual filmmaking. It's

448
00:38:04.840 --> 00:38:07.719
great. Am I turned on by
a cartoon? Yes, yes you are,

449
00:38:07.000 --> 00:38:16.960
Okay, it's great. Also also
it has oh, it has that

450
00:38:17.199 --> 00:38:24.559
entire sequence, that entire story where
they are on that planet and they run

451
00:38:24.599 --> 00:38:31.920
into like but it's effectively kind of
like these indigenous people's the planet species Nelvon

452
00:38:32.400 --> 00:38:38.480
nel Von, and I assume these
Nelons like this indigenous species to the planet,

453
00:38:38.800 --> 00:38:43.559
and he effectively has to because he's
been you know, he's been made

454
00:38:43.599 --> 00:38:50.920
Jedi master in a hilarious ceremony.
Hilarious, what what I'm talking about?

455
00:38:51.159 --> 00:38:55.519
It was very silly. It's so
cool. He nighted him. They literally

456
00:38:55.599 --> 00:39:00.719
knighted him, and I was just
like that, I say, so close

457
00:39:00.760 --> 00:39:02.559
to his he literally okay, you
know what I did? Love? They

458
00:39:02.599 --> 00:39:07.719
chop off his little Padawan braid.
Yeah, I guess, I guess it

459
00:39:07.719 --> 00:39:10.039
makes sense. It just I was
like very much like that's so close to

460
00:39:10.079 --> 00:39:19.400
your face anyway, which is also
because the weird thing about this Clone Wars

461
00:39:19.519 --> 00:39:22.000
is Lucas comes in sometimes it's like
can you do this? Can you do

462
00:39:22.039 --> 00:39:27.760
this? And then other things like
talk. I listened to the commentary and

463
00:39:27.800 --> 00:39:30.360
Gandy was like, surely you've got
ideas for like what the nighting ceremony would

464
00:39:30.360 --> 00:39:32.519
be, like George, and he's
like, yeah, do whatever you want.

465
00:39:32.920 --> 00:39:38.119
Oh wow, that's nice. That's
it was. It's so it's so

466
00:39:38.320 --> 00:39:43.199
it's so bizarre. They they were
just all in their little cloaks with our

467
00:39:43.239 --> 00:39:49.400
little lightsabers. The room lights up
just by lightsabers. That is very cool.

468
00:39:50.440 --> 00:39:53.519
It's fine. It was fun.
It was very fun. Unbelievable.

469
00:39:54.719 --> 00:40:00.159
He's now a Jedi Knight, so
he never actually kind of went through the

470
00:40:00.159 --> 00:40:04.079
full process of it, and he
effectively goes through this sort of final trial

471
00:40:04.840 --> 00:40:08.880
just like because I suppose there is
a sort of like inevitability to it,

472
00:40:09.000 --> 00:40:13.440
right like, even if he didn't
do it officially, he's going to end

473
00:40:13.519 --> 00:40:17.480
up in this space just kind of
there are nebulous rules to the trials,

474
00:40:17.599 --> 00:40:22.480
because right, there's like, I
don't know, there's not time. They

475
00:40:22.599 --> 00:40:25.199
kind of say that he's done a
whole bunch of things that are similar to

476
00:40:25.239 --> 00:40:29.800
the trials, and the one trial
that he still has to face is the

477
00:40:29.800 --> 00:40:36.199
trial of the Mirror, right right, of course, as as always got

478
00:40:36.199 --> 00:40:38.679
to go in that cave over there, and we'll be weirdly cagey about it,

479
00:40:39.320 --> 00:40:49.760
Yoda. Sorry, so he yeah, it goes off to basically like

480
00:40:51.079 --> 00:40:53.880
find like kind of follows this path
and finds the cave. Well, it's

481
00:40:53.920 --> 00:41:00.199
because they obi Wan and Akin are
sent to the planet now Van because they're

482
00:41:00.239 --> 00:41:05.639
looking for general Greed this, yes, and the Chancellor is like intelligence that

483
00:41:05.679 --> 00:41:08.960
we've got to talk about. Sorry, we gotta talk about Well we got

484
00:41:09.280 --> 00:41:13.480
so sorry, go on, And
so they're sent to nel Vaugh and they're

485
00:41:13.519 --> 00:41:19.079
looking for Grievous and Anakin being Anakin
Stous, a big honkin monster, which

486
00:41:19.159 --> 00:41:24.800
was actually a right of maturity for
this group of neil Bondians. Yeah,

487
00:41:25.639 --> 00:41:30.840
yeah, right, And and they
find as they go back that all of

488
00:41:30.880 --> 00:41:37.000
your warriors have disappeared. Yes,
and so there's like clearly some sort of

489
00:41:37.280 --> 00:41:42.960
tail that they have about this ghost
hand and he of course, has his

490
00:41:43.079 --> 00:41:45.559
arm chopped off, so he has
a robot kind of looks like a little

491
00:41:45.559 --> 00:41:49.159
ghost hand. It's like a little
ghost hand, and Obi Wan's like wait

492
00:41:49.440 --> 00:41:54.559
and seizes upon that. So he
goes off to you know hes Sustensibly he's

493
00:41:54.599 --> 00:42:00.320
going to find he's going to find
these lost warriors, but it is his

494
00:42:00.360 --> 00:42:06.800
own trial, it is his own
experience of self. And when he goes

495
00:42:06.880 --> 00:42:12.199
into this cave, he sees a
vision and it is one of the coolest

496
00:42:12.400 --> 00:42:20.840
sequences I've ever seen. It's so
cool, Like basically as like the steam

497
00:42:21.000 --> 00:42:25.719
rises up and there's like lights changing, these paintings on the wall start to

498
00:42:25.960 --> 00:42:29.840
come to life, and I know
you obviously watch I'm saying this for the

499
00:42:29.880 --> 00:42:34.960
listeners who should watch this immediately.
And it's the story of like this warrior

500
00:42:35.000 --> 00:42:37.960
who saved them had his hand bitten
off and then kind of grew this ghost

501
00:42:37.960 --> 00:42:43.400
hand and saved everybody. But then
as he's saving everyone, the ghost hand

502
00:42:43.440 --> 00:42:49.400
like it starts to consume them,
and he consumes them and becomes this otherworldly

503
00:42:49.480 --> 00:42:53.599
creature, this this terror himself,
and it's just like thank you, this

504
00:42:53.800 --> 00:42:59.920
is perfection. This is it?
Like fuck yes, and like you know

505
00:43:00.280 --> 00:43:04.480
it pushes the visual language of Star
Wars two. Oh God, it's glorious.

506
00:43:04.480 --> 00:43:07.639
Like it's kind of a stop motiony
type of thing because it's it's paintings

507
00:43:07.639 --> 00:43:10.679
on the wall that it's almost like
you know that like the little like shadow

508
00:43:12.119 --> 00:43:15.000
spinny thing that like it's like there's
there's static pictures, but when there's a

509
00:43:15.079 --> 00:43:19.360
light inside of it and it sort
of like goes, it like moves it

510
00:43:19.400 --> 00:43:24.360
like looks like it's moving. It's
it's like that, and it's so it's

511
00:43:24.440 --> 00:43:29.079
kind of a little bit creepy,
but so beautiful and so cool and so

512
00:43:29.239 --> 00:43:31.639
like the hand kind of movement almost
like snake like you remember it used to

513
00:43:31.639 --> 00:43:37.480
play Snake on your Nokia yep,
like like, oh my god. And

514
00:43:37.519 --> 00:43:44.000
then he ends up finding out that
these warriors have been taken a zoo trope.

515
00:43:44.079 --> 00:43:49.320
Yes, it's like a zoo trope, like American zoo trope from Francis

516
00:43:49.320 --> 00:43:55.679
for Coplo, who's best friends with
George Lucas. Yes, we did it.

517
00:43:55.840 --> 00:44:04.280
Hey, Hey, it's just like
horrifying because the I forgot which group

518
00:44:04.280 --> 00:44:09.119
takes them, but the ones that
are like oos, you know, I'm

519
00:44:09.119 --> 00:44:15.719
turning the knobs on my my bodys
the guilt, the guilt that some sort

520
00:44:15.760 --> 00:44:20.800
of guild girl is with you,
you know those guys. That is established

521
00:44:20.800 --> 00:44:25.159
in episode two. But because it's
nothing, I'm happy difficulties working because I'm

522
00:44:25.159 --> 00:44:30.800
not obsessed with the minutia of Star
Wars. Please uh sign up on our

523
00:44:30.800 --> 00:44:34.400
Patreon Patreon dot com substructors Pod at
five dollars a month so you can yell

524
00:44:34.440 --> 00:44:40.360
at us because we don't know what
the robots are. A mining guild.

525
00:44:40.760 --> 00:44:44.320
It might be the mining Guild,
because there's the of course, the Banking

526
00:44:44.360 --> 00:44:47.119
Guild with their like weird face banking
clan, the blanking banking clan, right

527
00:44:47.199 --> 00:44:50.320
is sorry, the banking clan.
Of course, the Trade Federation. It

528
00:44:50.400 --> 00:44:53.320
must be the mining Guild. But
they've been like taking these warriors and like

529
00:44:54.280 --> 00:45:02.599
fucking grotesquely turning them in to these
creatures. Oh my gosh, it's truly

530
00:45:04.239 --> 00:45:10.760
unsettling real design. Yeah, they
look like giant scary rats, like massive

531
00:45:10.840 --> 00:45:15.639
muscle muscle rats, massive muscle rats
like beaver face out. It's just like

532
00:45:16.280 --> 00:45:21.679
horrifying. And but he rescues them
and they're able, he's able to bring

533
00:45:21.760 --> 00:45:27.039
them home. It's like probably one
of the coolest stories I've seen well,

534
00:45:27.039 --> 00:45:32.000
you're forgetting he brings them home,
but uh, the I suppose the lead

535
00:45:32.119 --> 00:45:37.320
monster, once Anakin has successfully saved
them, conveys through his language, which

536
00:45:37.719 --> 00:45:42.800
I learned as like a modified Hungarian, which is based off of like his

537
00:45:43.000 --> 00:45:47.880
wife's in laws, because Gandhya's wife, I guess it's of Hungarian descent,

538
00:45:47.920 --> 00:45:54.360
and so he's using Hungarian as the
language of the aliens. This giant monster

539
00:45:54.440 --> 00:45:59.079
is communicating to Anakin, here's how
to save the day. Yes, points

540
00:45:59.119 --> 00:46:01.760
to like some crystal in a globe, and then I understand, And then

541
00:46:01.800 --> 00:46:10.000
we get an extraordinary action sequence of
Anakin lowering himself onto this electric globe and

542
00:46:10.039 --> 00:46:16.360
then puts his robot hand within the
force field and begins screaming in such agony

543
00:46:16.719 --> 00:46:22.440
that you're not really familiar with in
Star Wars. It's uncomfortable. Oh it's

544
00:46:23.599 --> 00:46:25.880
oh that's right, because yeah,
he's here, right, howould I e

545
00:46:27.000 --> 00:46:30.360
just gip this sticks in in,
gets the crystal out of there, destroys

546
00:46:30.360 --> 00:46:35.000
the entire facility, and so that
his robot arm is like blasted away.

547
00:46:35.199 --> 00:46:37.440
But they also have like lost to
their arms too, like or their arms

548
00:46:37.480 --> 00:46:43.280
have been replaced themselves and with like
weaponry. So they then because he comes

549
00:46:43.280 --> 00:46:45.239
out and he is now this vision
to them of like, well, he's

550
00:46:45.280 --> 00:46:51.719
a reflection of the vision that he
sees by crushing all of the mining guild.

551
00:46:52.000 --> 00:46:58.159
Yes, people crushes then, and
then in tribute to Anakin, all

552
00:46:58.559 --> 00:47:02.440
all of the Nelvanians that been transformed
rip off their robot appendages. Yes,

553
00:47:04.039 --> 00:47:08.599
to match. But I mean it
felt very it's very interesting coming off of

554
00:47:09.880 --> 00:47:15.320
Dune. It does have a touch
of a kind of like he is.

555
00:47:16.480 --> 00:47:20.719
I mean, they're like, all
of a sudden, there's a bunch of

556
00:47:20.760 --> 00:47:27.320
still guards being like more deep.
Lucas is of course influenced by Dune for

557
00:47:27.519 --> 00:47:30.199
sure. I mean, aren't we
all. I mean I'm not saying that's

558
00:47:30.199 --> 00:47:31.480
a bad thing by any means.
It's like it was, it was fresh

559
00:47:31.480 --> 00:47:35.239
in my brain. I was just
like, look at this, like deeply.

560
00:47:36.480 --> 00:47:39.480
I mean that is like he's exceptional, right, Like this's the whole

561
00:47:39.519 --> 00:47:44.199
thing, is that, Like he's
so talented, he's exceptional, and this

562
00:47:44.360 --> 00:47:47.519
is like and you can see these
like moments of absolute horror of like but

563
00:47:47.599 --> 00:47:52.840
also he brings them back. But
like it is a danger to be this

564
00:47:52.960 --> 00:47:59.320
kind of figure. It's a dangerous
space to be in. But yeah,

565
00:47:59.320 --> 00:48:04.760
it brings them back. It's incredible, matched only yeah, only by hell

566
00:48:05.559 --> 00:48:09.480
about how by terrifying Grievous. What's
why this that the Anakin obi Wan stuff

567
00:48:10.159 --> 00:48:15.559
is really kind of the b story. It's true. The age story is

568
00:48:15.559 --> 00:48:19.880
Grievous trying to abduct Palpatine. Well
shocked, TA has the egg story basically

569
00:48:19.920 --> 00:48:25.639
shak tie my girl. They're yeah, basically they're just running away with Palpatine

570
00:48:25.639 --> 00:48:30.039
while Grievous tracks them like a terrifying
predator. Yes, what's fabulous is that

571
00:48:30.119 --> 00:48:35.119
Yoda is meditating. This truly is
just us recapping just how great this is.

572
00:48:35.159 --> 00:48:37.360
We like never do It's just it's
just truly, we never do this.

573
00:48:38.119 --> 00:48:43.800
It's just like, I just look, there are so many because I

574
00:48:43.840 --> 00:48:46.800
mean again, I pulled my twenty
year DVD off of my shell and put

575
00:48:46.840 --> 00:48:51.880
it in and there are just so
many visuals that are stuck in my mind.

576
00:48:52.039 --> 00:48:57.199
The visual of Yoda being in meditation, his eyes pop open, pulls

577
00:48:57.280 --> 00:49:07.960
up the blinds and there are hundreds
of Droid ships ah ah ah, achieving

578
00:49:08.039 --> 00:49:17.119
a scale that uh, we children
of watching Star Wars since we're well me

579
00:49:17.800 --> 00:49:25.559
since since literally before I had memories
you wanting to see all of these things

580
00:49:25.559 --> 00:49:32.840
that you know, you know are
there, and and Gandhi's Clone Wars achieves

581
00:49:32.880 --> 00:49:37.119
it in a way that the prequels
don't. There's that beauty. There's that

582
00:49:37.639 --> 00:49:44.440
marvelous shot of you're in space over
Chorussant and you're pushing in to what you

583
00:49:44.480 --> 00:49:47.639
think are the stars, and the
closer that you're pushing into the stars,

584
00:49:47.679 --> 00:49:52.400
you realize those aren't stars that are
filling the sky. They're all ships.

585
00:49:52.920 --> 00:50:00.440
That's no star. Oh. I
love that shit. There's so much visual

586
00:50:00.480 --> 00:50:07.320
wit. There is a pirate boarding
sequence where I don't remember what the Jedi

587
00:50:07.440 --> 00:50:09.000
is. He's got big honking horns. Doesn't really matter because it's an action

588
00:50:09.159 --> 00:50:15.199
sequence leads an army of Clones over
to a separative ship on the outside of

589
00:50:15.280 --> 00:50:20.880
the separative operating in zero G.
It's extraordinary. And not to mention General

590
00:50:20.920 --> 00:50:28.199
Grievous, did you know that General
Grievous wasn't really locked down as Lucas was

591
00:50:28.480 --> 00:50:31.719
like, I'm not entirely sure who
General Grievous is. Well, it's pretty

592
00:50:31.719 --> 00:50:39.639
clear I did it now I might
because we met Grievous at the end of

593
00:50:39.760 --> 00:50:45.039
Clone Wars Volume one. Yeah,
or also Clone Wars season two and he's

594
00:50:45.039 --> 00:50:51.639
a badass Jedi killing machine and then
you meet him at episode three and it's

595
00:50:51.760 --> 00:50:57.320
kind of like a sniffling twarp,
which is also cool. So Volume two

596
00:50:57.599 --> 00:51:02.519
season three has to wrench the gap
between it all and find and split the

597
00:51:02.519 --> 00:51:09.719
difference. And because Gendiga is amazing
and his team he's cool, grievous rules?

598
00:51:10.639 --> 00:51:16.960
Did I? So? Am I
misunderstanding? Where? Where? Okay

599
00:51:17.000 --> 00:51:21.360
I need to we happened? No? Where does this happen? In time?

600
00:51:21.480 --> 00:51:25.000
I'm because I think again? See? Okay, Volume two happened.

601
00:51:25.000 --> 00:51:30.119
Okay, this was December's I so
I got this wrong to start. Sorry.

602
00:51:30.480 --> 00:51:35.280
Volume two is December six, two
thousand and five. Volume one is

603
00:51:35.320 --> 00:51:37.119
Nonber seven, two thousand and three. That's probably that's going to be the

604
00:51:37.159 --> 00:51:39.679
DVD release. Oh that's the DVD. You're right, you're right, you're

605
00:51:39.719 --> 00:51:45.679
right. This time I'm assuming I
am imagining because aired Sorry, March two

606
00:51:45.719 --> 00:51:47.920
thousand and five is when the chapters
were aired. So this is two years

607
00:51:47.960 --> 00:51:53.760
later nowe Revenge of the Fifth came
out. Yeah no, this is two

608
00:51:53.800 --> 00:51:58.039
years after the first set Volume one. Oh wow, oh yeah. In

609
00:51:58.039 --> 00:52:00.480
my mind I was like, oh
yeah, so I I was like missing,

610
00:52:00.760 --> 00:52:04.400
missing this entirely. So what you
were saying now makes sense to me

611
00:52:04.440 --> 00:52:08.639
that this came out after Revenge of
the Sith. The episodes themselves aired before

612
00:52:08.760 --> 00:52:15.039
Revenge of the Sith. This okay
in one big honking as a movie,

613
00:52:15.159 --> 00:52:20.360
and it needs to they now,
and then they he now understands who Grievous

614
00:52:20.440 --> 00:52:22.920
is because he has made it and
has like written Grievous into the film,

615
00:52:23.000 --> 00:52:28.000
So he needs this piece to lead
into what Grievous is is in the film.

616
00:52:28.280 --> 00:52:30.639
Yeah, got it, Thank you, thank you. It makes sense.

617
00:52:30.679 --> 00:52:34.800
I was like, because when they
wanted to introduce Grievous, obviously at

618
00:52:34.800 --> 00:52:37.519
the end of what is known as
Clone Wars Volume one, he's a badass,

619
00:52:37.760 --> 00:52:42.159
right, and Lucas was like,
he's a cool guy. And then

620
00:52:42.480 --> 00:52:45.679
while they're making this next chunk of
episodes, he's like, actually, Grievous

621
00:52:45.800 --> 00:52:49.400
is like this, which is what
I held. It is kind of funny

622
00:52:49.440 --> 00:52:54.719
because he is still terrifying and he
is like he just shows up, like

623
00:52:54.760 --> 00:52:58.519
there's at one point, there's one
point where they finally get like Palpatine.

624
00:52:58.559 --> 00:53:01.239
They've been like Russian Palpatine to this
safe house basically, which is so cool.

625
00:53:01.239 --> 00:53:06.360
There's like underground this like ship that
moves like, oh, the way

626
00:53:06.360 --> 00:53:08.639
it moves like through Ah, this
might be my ship, but it's like

627
00:53:08.639 --> 00:53:12.639
not a ship. It's like a
subway, but it's like a ship subway.

628
00:53:13.000 --> 00:53:15.199
It's so cool the way it moves
and goes through this underground tunnels.

629
00:53:15.679 --> 00:53:21.000
And they finally finally get into the
safe house room and the lights started on

630
00:53:21.199 --> 00:53:25.599
and he's fucking there. It's so
great, but but and shocked. He's

631
00:53:25.639 --> 00:53:29.559
like fuck wait because she had like
stayed behind to try to like defend off

632
00:53:29.559 --> 00:53:32.519
and she ends up getting there and
so he's like terrifying. It's scary and

633
00:53:32.639 --> 00:53:37.519
yet and yet she's doing this thing
where he's like, now you'll die,

634
00:53:37.559 --> 00:53:45.440
but she has force tied escape just
to this like car and it starts moving

635
00:53:45.639 --> 00:53:52.920
and he just goes. It's so
funny, and it's like it's so this

636
00:53:53.000 --> 00:53:55.840
is this makes sense and it's like, Okay, he's terrifying, but he's

637
00:53:55.880 --> 00:54:01.119
also a little dirby. Yeah yeah, when it happened, I was like

638
00:54:01.840 --> 00:54:07.400
joking, Guindy is able. Let's
put the difference. It's great. And

639
00:54:07.440 --> 00:54:09.400
they do find that thing of like, well where does this cough come from?

640
00:54:09.760 --> 00:54:15.960
And I think it's is it Mace
who crushed Mace crushes crushes his rib

641
00:54:15.000 --> 00:54:19.239
cage, his ribcage, and of
course yeah, because he is like Grievous,

642
00:54:19.320 --> 00:54:23.000
is like his The story of Grievous, by the way, as I

643
00:54:23.039 --> 00:54:27.119
recall, I don't remember what species
he was, but he was a living

644
00:54:28.679 --> 00:54:30.719
not man, but like like he
got a harf, he's a well,

645
00:54:30.960 --> 00:54:37.599
he was a full person. Uh. That's his like backstory on General Grievous

646
00:54:38.039 --> 00:54:43.239
and I And it has been while
actually since I looked it up, So

647
00:54:43.280 --> 00:54:46.960
it's been a while. I'm gonna
do this because I think this is important

648
00:54:46.960 --> 00:54:52.679
because I fucking love Grievous. I
even like him and revenge, Like I

649
00:54:52.719 --> 00:54:57.199
think that he is a silly goose
and I think his little cough is dumb,

650
00:54:57.239 --> 00:55:00.679
and I love him so much.
A native of Khli, a planet

651
00:55:00.719 --> 00:55:04.800
within Wild Space Chili, the same
as Shiliol, grew to become a fearsome

652
00:55:04.840 --> 00:55:07.079
warrior of his people and gain an
aptitude for warfare and battle tactics when he

653
00:55:07.119 --> 00:55:12.960
led his people during Colice's War against
their technologically advanced enemies blah blah blah.

654
00:55:13.039 --> 00:55:15.960
He eventually took the name Grievous,
contained his conquest, quickly becoming a war

655
00:55:16.119 --> 00:55:22.719
lord and earning a bloody reputation.
So he kind of moved through that,

656
00:55:22.880 --> 00:55:28.719
and then he was that potential is
seen by the Sith lords, and as

657
00:55:28.760 --> 00:55:36.599
he led his people in merciless war, and then let's see it. So

658
00:55:37.440 --> 00:55:42.559
I think, like, then what
happened was give me a second okay,

659
00:55:42.800 --> 00:55:45.000
oh yeah, yeah, yeah,
yeah, yeah, okay conspired Okay,

660
00:55:45.079 --> 00:55:49.800
So sometime later, members of the
executive Separatist Council of the newly formed Confederacy

661
00:55:49.800 --> 00:55:52.519
of Independent Systems, led by Duke, who conspired to mortally wound Grievous in

662
00:55:52.599 --> 00:56:00.119
a bid to convert him into a
super cyborg subservient to their cause. I

663
00:56:00.360 --> 00:56:05.840
now Duca's agents sabotaged his shuttle,
which resulted in a gruesome crash left the

664
00:56:05.840 --> 00:56:09.800
man on the brink of death.
He was offered conversion into an enhanced cybernetic

665
00:56:09.840 --> 00:56:15.280
being by the Sith, who were
interested in experimenting with technologically advanced beings.

666
00:56:15.880 --> 00:56:19.960
His remaining vital organs implanted into a
powerful robotic body after the majority of his

667
00:56:20.039 --> 00:56:22.639
organic body was destroyed, but over
time he gradually started to make considerable improvements

668
00:56:22.679 --> 00:56:27.000
to a cybernetic body so that's the
story. I'd forgotten that they actually did

669
00:56:27.039 --> 00:56:32.199
it on purpose to fucking like bring
him in. So that's actually partly why

670
00:56:32.320 --> 00:56:37.039
I find Grieves to be very interesting, because I remembered that that he I

671
00:56:37.119 --> 00:56:43.079
do like the idea of this like
some kind of frailty in it, But

672
00:56:43.159 --> 00:56:49.239
he's fucking scariest shit, Like there
is something about his like real eyes within

673
00:56:49.360 --> 00:56:53.960
this like terrifying, like spider body. Oh goodness, gracious nanks to letting

674
00:56:53.960 --> 00:56:59.239
me read that. Absolutely. I
mean, that's why you're the co host

675
00:56:59.280 --> 00:57:06.800
with the mother, because there's there's
so much ancillarious Star Wars materials that I'm

676
00:57:06.840 --> 00:57:12.320
not familiar with I and that's I
learned this. I'm going to get this

677
00:57:12.400 --> 00:57:16.320
on the record. Yes, so
star like Star Wars fandom likes to clown

678
00:57:16.400 --> 00:57:22.519
on Luke. You're familiar with Luke
Luke? Yes, the clone Luke Skywalker

679
00:57:22.599 --> 00:57:28.400
that's got to us in his name
Luke. Yeah, he lives in Sweden.

680
00:57:28.760 --> 00:57:32.079
Yeah, are you familiar with this? People like to clown on him,

681
00:57:32.280 --> 00:57:36.800
Yeah, because it's stupid. He's
his name, there's Luke Skywalker and

682
00:57:36.840 --> 00:57:42.559
this clone Luke Skywalker. His name
is l u u k E Okay,

683
00:57:42.760 --> 00:57:45.840
no, you're not you're not familiar. Okay, well, I know that

684
00:57:45.880 --> 00:57:49.599
this exists. And then I learned
that he exists in like the Throng trilogy,

685
00:57:51.880 --> 00:57:54.280
which is like supposed to be the
best Star Wars tie in fiction period,

686
00:57:54.480 --> 00:57:57.760
and I've read the first two thirds
of it, and I'm like,

687
00:57:57.800 --> 00:58:00.599
this is bad. This is bad, and I don't like, Wait,

688
00:58:00.639 --> 00:58:06.519
sorry, I missed your I missed
your bit is Luke and Thron Wait what

689
00:58:06.519 --> 00:58:07.639
are you sorry? What are you
getting at this? I mean, this

690
00:58:07.679 --> 00:58:10.599
is hard considering that you don't have
context for this person that I'm talking about.

691
00:58:12.840 --> 00:58:15.199
You're talking about Oh, I see
what you're saying. Sorry, let

692
00:58:15.199 --> 00:58:19.679
me explain the joke I'm you're telling, which is that because it's not canon

693
00:58:19.679 --> 00:58:22.280
anymore, Luke Skywalker is in these
Throng books, but it's not canon.

694
00:58:23.000 --> 00:58:29.519
No, it's this, it's this. I'm I'm airing. I'm airing your

695
00:58:29.519 --> 00:58:30.880
a grievance. This is me airing
your a grievance. And I'm probably going

696
00:58:30.920 --> 00:58:35.480
to cut this. I probably got
cut this out of the final episode because

697
00:58:35.480 --> 00:58:38.159
it's stopping everything cold, but I'm
gonna marry it anyways. Okay, so

698
00:58:38.280 --> 00:58:45.480
patrons, listen, to this.
Okay, So the Throng trilogy, all

699
00:58:45.519 --> 00:58:50.400
these toxic Star Wars fans that are
stupid and vote for Holiday Special over Last

700
00:58:50.440 --> 00:58:52.719
Jedi and being period of market,
they're like, you know, what should

701
00:58:52.719 --> 00:58:58.000
have been done the Throng trilogy.
Thron is a badass air. The Empire

702
00:58:58.039 --> 00:59:00.360
is amazing. It's like, that's
what they should have done. And I'm

703
00:59:00.400 --> 00:59:04.880
over here having no like preciousness to
that source material, and I'm like,

704
00:59:05.639 --> 00:59:09.519
no, it's because bad because they're
like, oh, there's this magic squirrel.

705
00:59:09.599 --> 00:59:13.159
You know, the Force is the
greatest thing. And so of course

706
00:59:13.239 --> 00:59:19.000
the way that they defeat Luke Skywalker, they immediately depower Luke Skywalker by putting

707
00:59:19.079 --> 00:59:23.079
him around a whole bunch of magic
squirrels. What there are these magic squirrels

708
00:59:23.119 --> 00:59:29.360
that just invalidate the force? What
it just invalidates the Force? And so

709
00:59:29.480 --> 00:59:37.159
Luke Skywalker is now and so no
what So Throng, this master strategist that

710
00:59:37.280 --> 00:59:43.119
was constantly just like offscreen, followed
you, following you, following you in

711
00:59:43.239 --> 00:59:49.199
order to in order to because Zon
is like, how do I write Luke

712
00:59:49.239 --> 00:59:52.079
Skywalker? He's so powerful? What
do I do? I know what,

713
00:59:52.519 --> 00:59:59.880
I'll invent these magic squirrels that invalidate
the Force just cancels out the Force,

714
01:00:00.440 --> 01:00:02.159
and so Thron is like, let's
get a whole bunch of these squirrels,

715
01:00:02.559 --> 01:00:07.519
okay, And then Luke Skywalker spends
the majority of air to the Empire in

716
01:00:07.599 --> 01:00:12.360
this jungle that is surrounded with all
of these magic squirrels. No, I

717
01:00:12.400 --> 01:00:15.519
got you. So he can be
put in genuine peril again because An is

718
01:00:15.559 --> 01:00:17.599
like, well, if a character
has the Force, there's no drama.

719
01:00:20.400 --> 01:00:25.639
It's super boring. He's not fucking
Superman. No oh. Also, Superman's

720
01:00:25.920 --> 01:00:30.559
cool because he has emotions, because
he's a decent guy, right, And

721
01:00:30.840 --> 01:00:34.079
Luke's cool because he also has it. He has character motivations that he's not

722
01:00:34.119 --> 01:00:37.000
perfect or superhero. I mean,
he is a superhero, but he's not

723
01:00:37.159 --> 01:00:39.320
perfect. Yeah, Because there are
existential questions so that you can ask within

724
01:00:39.360 --> 01:00:44.039
a piece that feels like an epilogue, because you're questioning the fundamental focus of

725
01:00:44.079 --> 01:00:46.519
what the heck do you do afterwards? Whenever you think that your story is

726
01:00:46.559 --> 01:00:50.840
done and the Empire is done,
there are excidential questions of being like what

727
01:00:51.079 --> 01:00:54.639
next. That's and that's if your
go to fucking write more to your original

728
01:00:54.679 --> 01:01:00.039
story. Yeah, but the dialogue. But it isn't it that it doesn't

729
01:01:00.039 --> 01:01:02.960
at least the two thirds that I've
read of the Thron trilogy. And I'm

730
01:01:02.960 --> 01:01:07.320
sure because I am a completest and
an a statist, as you can confirm.

731
01:01:07.400 --> 01:01:10.320
Yeah, I want to finish everything
right, so I will go back

732
01:01:10.360 --> 01:01:14.519
to it, even though I found
it just like, Okay, so the

733
01:01:14.519 --> 01:01:19.400
best I understand, there's a whole
bunch of ancillary materials that makes Thron the

734
01:01:19.440 --> 01:01:22.800
best guy ever that's ever existed.
You can confirm this. There's a lot

735
01:01:22.840 --> 01:01:28.000
of good I haven't read them.
Joel, my dear sweet partner has read.

736
01:01:30.480 --> 01:01:37.039
Yeah, you can do it for
him. That's good. I think

737
01:01:37.079 --> 01:01:42.719
there are some actual Cannon. There
are Cannon Thron books now or they're not

738
01:01:42.760 --> 01:01:45.039
considered legends. And he says they're
really good. I really like them.

739
01:01:45.400 --> 01:01:49.360
I think they include I think Thron
is a very good character. He's in

740
01:01:49.440 --> 01:01:52.159
Rebels and I was like, Okay, this is fine. He's really good.

741
01:01:52.360 --> 01:01:58.119
He's a good villain in Rebels.
He's great. But then and he's

742
01:01:58.119 --> 01:02:00.199
good in a Soka. I think
too. I mean it's I think he's

743
01:02:00.280 --> 01:02:06.639
less impactful. He's less impactful in
Ahsoka because everyone is performing like this,

744
01:02:07.039 --> 01:02:14.480
and yeah, it's it's different.
Yeah, but yeah, but his because

745
01:02:14.960 --> 01:02:20.079
Rebels is dealing with a kind of
a certain period of time where he is

746
01:02:20.519 --> 01:02:25.719
he's above middle management clearly, his
Grand Admiral Thraun. But it's still interesting

747
01:02:25.800 --> 01:02:30.039
to be dealing with a certain kind
of evil that I guess, like almost

748
01:02:30.119 --> 01:02:36.440
from an alignment perspective, is like
this lawful evil. To have someone who's

749
01:02:36.480 --> 01:02:39.920
just not just the fucking emperor,
who like has a certain perspective on things

750
01:02:39.960 --> 01:02:45.000
and a sort of deliberation that's very
terrifying. He's a very interesting character.

751
01:02:45.159 --> 01:02:49.199
So like we got good thron Yeah, it's good, that's fun. But

752
01:02:49.239 --> 01:02:53.239
whenever I read to Air to the
Empire, the fundamental question that I'm asking

753
01:02:53.320 --> 01:02:59.800
the whole time is that is not
I know that it's answered in later books,

754
01:03:00.000 --> 01:03:02.119
but I'm worried about Now you're telling
to cut this, by the way,

755
01:03:02.199 --> 01:03:07.440
this is a good conversation. Disagree, No, it's good. Why

756
01:03:07.719 --> 01:03:12.280
because it's cutting the flow? Is
stopping the flow? Stopping the flow.

757
01:03:12.519 --> 01:03:15.880
I'm gonna cut it. This is
great, it'll be in the patrenon Oh

758
01:03:15.920 --> 01:03:22.679
whatever, you okay, you listen
to it, Okay, I had Thron's

759
01:03:22.679 --> 01:03:25.840
Stupidron's stupid. You're telling me,
you're telling me, and I've aired this

760
01:03:25.920 --> 01:03:30.960
green support and I'll keep airing it. You're telling me the best strategist in

761
01:03:30.039 --> 01:03:38.360
the Empire was conveniently off screen the
entire time your ship to do. You

762
01:03:38.400 --> 01:03:43.679
had things to do, he had
errands to run. Well, yeah,

763
01:03:43.719 --> 01:03:46.320
I mean, I guess for what
it's worth front and that's I have no

764
01:03:46.519 --> 01:03:52.800
concept of him in that original like
setting. I think him in Rebels makes

765
01:03:52.840 --> 01:03:57.199
a lot of sense. That's fine
because that's a newish character because full is

766
01:03:57.280 --> 01:04:00.920
like, how do we emerge this
to make sense? Right? Oh,

767
01:04:00.960 --> 01:04:04.360
it sounds stupid. You're precious air
to the Empire and Zoon makes the fundamental

768
01:04:04.400 --> 01:04:11.880
miscalculation for for me, I guess
I'm wrong because every other star wars wrong.

769
01:04:12.039 --> 01:04:15.760
They're wrong. Is just like,
let's reset the status quo and immediately

770
01:04:15.800 --> 01:04:20.159
make the new Republic corrupt. Kenny. I'm just like, this is not

771
01:04:21.239 --> 01:04:26.760
Kenny. I I do want to
just say I I a lot of people,

772
01:04:27.440 --> 01:04:32.400
myself included, often like they've read
something and then they are seen something

773
01:04:32.559 --> 01:04:35.400
and they are more influenced by like
the way I made them feel. They're

774
01:04:35.480 --> 01:04:40.280
nostalgia, but better the quality of
the idea of it. So you know,

775
01:04:40.559 --> 01:04:44.719
I mean, I know I star
Trek five. It's hard for it.

776
01:04:44.920 --> 01:04:45.800
You know, there's a lot of
things that it's hard to be objective

777
01:04:45.800 --> 01:04:49.559
about. I myself said, wow, am I enjoying Attack of the Clones?

778
01:04:49.599 --> 01:04:56.079
I understand, but so but also
people are wrong. Don't worry about

779
01:04:56.079 --> 01:05:00.199
it. I'm with you. It's
just with you. You need to you

780
01:05:00.239 --> 01:05:06.599
can't just immediately. I know I
hate the Empire on record hating Air to

781
01:05:06.639 --> 01:05:12.559
the Empire. Fuck, yes,
preach it. I might leave this in.

782
01:05:12.679 --> 01:05:16.039
I don't know, Alliston, I
like it. Let's do it.

783
01:05:16.440 --> 01:05:18.719
What are we talking about? I
like Star Wars. Look at that.

784
01:05:18.760 --> 01:05:23.760
It's a custom DVD. That's custom. What how was it? Like?

785
01:05:23.800 --> 01:05:27.320
Did you design it? No?
These are no. I printed out this

786
01:05:27.840 --> 01:05:31.719
cover and it's the Star Wars specialized
editions from Harmony. You can find all

787
01:05:31.840 --> 01:05:36.199
what because I like physical media and
I wanted to own it. You should

788
01:05:38.039 --> 01:05:41.239
wait. You know, we're moving
in a few months, and we were

789
01:05:41.280 --> 01:05:45.280
thinking about things that we wanted to
Oh that's fun. I like that,

790
01:05:45.960 --> 01:05:47.320
and we're talking about like, oh, what are the things we might want

791
01:05:47.320 --> 01:05:50.000
to like call and stuff, and
I was like, let's not get rid

792
01:05:50.000 --> 01:05:55.679
of any of our CDs or DVDs. Like originally years like a few just

793
01:05:55.719 --> 01:05:57.480
a few years ago, I might
have been like, we don't need these

794
01:05:57.519 --> 01:06:00.239
DVDs, like we've got streaming services
or whatever. And now I'm just like,

795
01:06:00.519 --> 01:06:03.280
don't let them go. What if
they disappear? Yeah, absolutely not.

796
01:06:04.039 --> 01:06:10.480
That's so I bought my friend Carter
Creek by Carter Uh their album released

797
01:06:10.639 --> 01:06:17.400
last week, Oh genuinely just a
promo, a promo for them, and

798
01:06:18.159 --> 01:06:21.960
I bought their physical CD. And
because I still have CD player in my

799
01:06:21.960 --> 01:06:26.920
car. Good. Cool. There's
like something so magical about being like,

800
01:06:27.000 --> 01:06:30.719
oh, I'm not like looking on
Spotify and like physically have my CD.

801
01:06:30.880 --> 01:06:33.440
And I'm just like, yes,
there's something that makes it your media consumption

802
01:06:33.519 --> 01:06:39.559
a lot more purposeful whenever you take
a physical object place it somewhere else,

803
01:06:39.599 --> 01:06:45.079
as opposed to h what companies want
from us, which is passive consumerism.

804
01:06:45.519 --> 01:06:47.039
Yeah, and then I like listen
to the full album, you know,

805
01:06:47.079 --> 01:06:49.639
I like start from the beginning,
and like I listen to the way that

806
01:06:49.679 --> 01:06:53.639
the songs hit each other, oh
so good, and how they fit together.

807
01:06:54.679 --> 01:06:59.440
Yeah. Yeah, anyway, what
are we talking about cravous. We

808
01:06:59.480 --> 01:07:04.159
haven't even talked about well commonalities.
We allright, here are commonalities, There

809
01:07:04.199 --> 01:07:13.800
are commonalities, Here are commonalities.
Both of these pieces of media are fire.

810
01:07:14.639 --> 01:07:20.239
Yes, that's the biggest commonality.
I feel great. We're sad,

811
01:07:20.360 --> 01:07:25.480
but I feel better thinking about them. Clone Wars is raising a lot of

812
01:07:25.800 --> 01:07:31.079
thematic questions in much more subtle weight
as opposed to Star Trek, which the

813
01:07:31.119 --> 01:07:34.400
great thing about Star Trek is whenever
it talks about its themes, it loads

814
01:07:34.400 --> 01:07:39.159
it in a T shirt cannon and
fires it at you. I mean in

815
01:07:39.159 --> 01:07:43.840
this one, yes, but also
at the same time a little more subtle

816
01:07:43.840 --> 01:07:48.760
in other ways, like like good
subtle. Everything within The Ultimate Computer relates

817
01:07:48.800 --> 01:07:55.599
to the basic themes. Every question
that every character is asking is related to

818
01:07:55.599 --> 01:08:00.360
the central question, which is for
me just some of my most It is

819
01:08:00.760 --> 01:08:03.119
looking at the theme in so many
complex ways. We haven't even talked about

820
01:08:03.119 --> 01:08:09.239
the N five computer and in the
sixties them clocking what the heck we're going

821
01:08:09.280 --> 01:08:15.079
through with AI and the inherent biases
with ANI, which is that it's just

822
01:08:15.159 --> 01:08:17.279
a reflection of the data that is
put into it. But these companies are

823
01:08:17.880 --> 01:08:23.399
and startfuleet within Ultimate Computer as being
like the computer. The computer is unbiased.

824
01:08:23.439 --> 01:08:27.199
There is nothing better than the computer. But of course anything that is

825
01:08:27.239 --> 01:08:33.000
made by a human being is at
the service of the limits of that human

826
01:08:33.560 --> 01:08:39.720
right. And specifically he has like
given it the ability to sort of logic

827
01:08:39.800 --> 01:08:45.159
through, but it's based on his
own thought patterns, so and it does.

828
01:08:45.239 --> 01:08:49.319
It comes back to like what I
feel like my biggest opinion on AI

829
01:08:49.520 --> 01:08:55.279
is it's not that I'm necessarily,
like inherently frightened of the thing. What

830
01:08:55.319 --> 01:08:59.399
I am always worried about is well, what it is is I am frightened

831
01:08:59.520 --> 01:09:08.960
of power run amook like the concept
here being that he wants this to relieve

832
01:09:09.039 --> 01:09:13.239
the pressures so that people like literally
don't die, so that we're creating safety.

833
01:09:13.319 --> 01:09:15.520
Right, Like that might be the
most altruistic or optimistic perspective on a

834
01:09:15.560 --> 01:09:20.039
thing. Maybe we have the development
of technologies and ultimately our greatest hope is

835
01:09:20.119 --> 01:09:26.079
so that it's say, relieves and
provides us with the opportunity to have more

836
01:09:26.159 --> 01:09:30.159
leisure time, to have more safety
in our everyday lives. But that's not

837
01:09:30.239 --> 01:09:33.399
how it works. We don't have
like our the future that we are heading

838
01:09:33.399 --> 01:09:38.520
toward as not Star Trek. It
is you know, it's like Blade Runner.

839
01:09:38.560 --> 01:09:43.359
It's like it's a far more dystopian
type of perspective where money to interests

840
01:09:43.359 --> 01:09:46.239
are the ones that dictate how something
is run. So it's Elon Musk coming

841
01:09:46.319 --> 01:09:53.199
in and like sending himself to space
as opposed to like actually creating social goods

842
01:09:53.640 --> 01:09:57.439
through wealth. Right, it's using
these tools for ill because they are,

843
01:09:57.640 --> 01:10:03.920
like you said, ultimately coming from
their's still imprinted with the bullshit of the

844
01:10:04.000 --> 01:10:11.720
creators, and they're saying this is
sixty eight. Yeah, technically sixty seven,

845
01:10:12.319 --> 01:10:14.439
but I and I and I think
again, it's it's far. It

846
01:10:14.520 --> 01:10:16.680
is wild that it's like again,
this episode, more than others, is

847
01:10:16.720 --> 01:10:21.560
like by no means simplistic about it, Like it's actually very thoughtful. It's

848
01:10:21.600 --> 01:10:28.000
not like it's a computar. I
think it fundamentally comes down to that post

849
01:10:28.039 --> 01:10:33.119
Captain Duncil scene where Kirk is like, I'm free, yeah, is this

850
01:10:33.159 --> 01:10:39.520
Dorothy yes? Or I'm I think
it also helps this. This isn't always

851
01:10:39.560 --> 01:10:42.960
the best case, but sometimes so
there are those perfect scenarios where sometimes you

852
01:10:43.000 --> 01:10:45.039
have to go first thought, best
thought. Yep, And she's got the

853
01:10:45.079 --> 01:10:51.760
base bones pun intended of what Lawrence
Wolf has supplied it's got those ideas,

854
01:10:53.039 --> 01:10:56.760
and then she's got no time because
they're filming next week, so you just

855
01:10:57.119 --> 01:11:02.560
go. It's the same way with
the finale of Next Generation, because the

856
01:11:02.600 --> 01:11:09.760
writers of All Good Things Ronald Deemore
and Brandon Brago Ronald dey Moore create a

857
01:11:09.760 --> 01:11:15.960
battle Starchalactica wrote the finale of Next
Generation and they wrote Star Trek Generations at

858
01:11:15.960 --> 01:11:18.119
the exact same time. But All
Good Things they had to write in a

859
01:11:18.159 --> 01:11:23.000
week and a half. Jesus.
In Star Trek Generations they had months to

860
01:11:23.119 --> 01:11:26.880
work on, and All Good Things
is by far the superior. Yeah,

861
01:11:26.880 --> 01:11:30.439
those things, well, I mean
I think there is something too of like

862
01:11:32.680 --> 01:11:38.239
sort of we have patterns of history, right, and I imagine there's a

863
01:11:38.279 --> 01:11:43.920
fear at that time of automation replacing
is the thing that Star Trek has asked

864
01:11:44.439 --> 01:11:48.640
multiple times about what what is a
human? What is a human? Because,

865
01:11:48.640 --> 01:11:53.119
as I talked about, Star Trek
is propaganda for humans and the human

866
01:11:53.159 --> 01:11:57.520
experience, humans rule. Yeah,
yeah, what is a humor? Like,

867
01:11:57.560 --> 01:12:01.720
what is the value of a human? And and now we've got a

868
01:12:01.800 --> 01:12:08.680
question of here is a machine that
within the purposes of Star Trek is able

869
01:12:08.720 --> 01:12:15.920
to perfectly mimic human capabilities. So
if this machine can mimic what a human,

870
01:12:15.840 --> 01:12:21.800
we we within this value system what
a human does, right, so

871
01:12:21.880 --> 01:12:26.199
what is your function? What a
human wants, what a human needs?

872
01:12:26.439 --> 01:12:30.359
But there makes him happy, sets
them free, And I'm thanking you for

873
01:12:30.439 --> 01:12:38.479
showing exactly exactly. Yeah, and
it's like, yeah, I mean,

874
01:12:38.520 --> 01:12:41.479
I'll beous like that. We do
get a pretty obvious like, well,

875
01:12:42.520 --> 01:12:45.720
it interprets something as a threat because
it doesn't have the capacity, say to

876
01:12:45.720 --> 01:12:49.640
really think critically about it. And
we see this. I mean it also

877
01:12:51.680 --> 01:12:55.600
ten twenty years ago you might look
at that and be like, that's a

878
01:12:55.640 --> 01:13:00.680
little convenient because of course we have
to reset to this this quote. But

879
01:13:00.840 --> 01:13:06.359
now alas running over children, Yes, and they're yeah, exactly. We

880
01:13:08.039 --> 01:13:12.880
have these algorithms that are dictating what
our life is and instead of relying on

881
01:13:13.000 --> 01:13:17.399
human intuition, c suite boards are
looking at that and being like, we

882
01:13:17.479 --> 01:13:23.640
need to be at the behest of
mechanization because we trust mechanization over humans.

883
01:13:24.039 --> 01:13:29.359
Humans are variable. Humans need things. Machines don't. They have more value,

884
01:13:29.720 --> 01:13:31.640
right, And we are And that's
why General Grievious is put in charge

885
01:13:31.680 --> 01:13:34.479
of the droid army. Well,
I mean it's why they turn him into

886
01:13:34.479 --> 01:13:39.720
a cyborg that MA can control.
Yeah, yeah, exactly. I mean

887
01:13:39.800 --> 01:13:43.199
there is obviously a I just want
to just call out real quick, just

888
01:13:43.239 --> 01:13:45.119
to like finish that thought of Like, I do think there is a strong

889
01:13:46.279 --> 01:13:51.079
pattern, of course, there's a
strong pattern of the same fears of the

890
01:13:51.119 --> 01:13:56.560
sixties coming back into play now,
but in just in different ways. Yes,

891
01:13:56.600 --> 01:14:00.359
and I do think there is there's
something awful and beautiful about it.

892
01:14:01.119 --> 01:14:04.399
I mean, this is an extension
of the fears of industrialization, right right,

893
01:14:04.439 --> 01:14:10.439
right, We're losing something. But
I don't think anyone in the nineteen

894
01:14:10.479 --> 01:14:15.600
sixties could have fathomed that it would
have made art irrelevant, yeah, artists

895
01:14:15.640 --> 01:14:23.840
orlean yet rather and the true lack
of like the like valuing profit over humanity,

896
01:14:24.000 --> 01:14:28.479
which just today, as I was
talking about some stuff that I was

897
01:14:28.479 --> 01:14:32.239
angry about with the way businesses are, it's like you cannot, like some

898
01:14:32.279 --> 01:14:38.159
people, exclusively look at business in
terms of say profit. And I've said

899
01:14:38.159 --> 01:14:42.279
this before, I m say it
again. My favorite comparison example is so

900
01:14:42.359 --> 01:14:45.560
sorry for repeating myself, but when
the pandemic was going and there are all

901
01:14:45.600 --> 01:14:50.119
these thin pieces about well, if
we keep being locked down, the economy

902
01:14:50.159 --> 01:14:55.640
will suffer. And Paul Krugerman is, like humans are the economy. If

903
01:14:55.960 --> 01:14:59.960
millions upon millions of people of humans
die, you don't have an economy.

904
01:15:00.119 --> 01:15:02.359
And that's I think of that all
the time, and I feel like that's

905
01:15:02.439 --> 01:15:05.880
what's what it is. It's like
mechanization, the idea of like humans as

906
01:15:05.920 --> 01:15:11.800
disposable and unnecessary, as opposed to
understanding that like humans are what make art.

907
01:15:11.840 --> 01:15:15.119
Humans are what make these like leadership, that's what makes decisions, what

908
01:15:15.239 --> 01:15:20.159
makes connection. Oh boy, anyway, and that is why Grievous has a

909
01:15:20.199 --> 01:15:33.159
cough. Oh geez, a little
fucking weeze m. I mean obviously,

910
01:15:34.039 --> 01:15:38.199
Star Trek and Star Wars are often
concerned I mean, Star Wars is often

911
01:15:38.239 --> 01:15:42.840
concerned with right, like what is
human as well? Right? The sort

912
01:15:42.840 --> 01:15:49.640
of like mechanization of Darth Vader,
of like Anakin falling more toward like becoming

913
01:15:50.239 --> 01:15:55.520
more robotic droid esque, like having
these different parts of what that makes him

914
01:15:55.560 --> 01:16:03.000
and asking what does it mean to
be a human? Anakin is being faced

915
01:16:03.039 --> 01:16:08.319
with what does it mean to be
a hero? Truly self sacrificing, And

916
01:16:08.359 --> 01:16:15.039
the answer is that it's pain yeah, suffering, it is being fundamentally uncomfortable,

917
01:16:15.439 --> 01:16:19.079
and ultimately he can't deal. He
can't deal. And I think what's

918
01:16:19.119 --> 01:16:24.319
also that's making me think of is
also like the kind of the question of

919
01:16:24.640 --> 01:16:28.720
if we're to do like a compare
of Jim Kirk and Anakin Skywalker leadership.

920
01:16:28.920 --> 01:16:34.039
Finally, I mean, I think
without a doubt Kirk is a good leader,

921
01:16:35.199 --> 01:16:39.399
a good friend. I think there
are sometimes where yeah, I mean

922
01:16:39.439 --> 01:16:41.800
for the purpose of like, like, if we take it at face value,

923
01:16:41.800 --> 01:16:45.279
like he does make some questionable choices
of who goes down to the planet

924
01:16:45.239 --> 01:16:49.840
with Yeah, of course, but
he's there wouldn't be a TV show exactly.

925
01:16:49.880 --> 01:16:56.199
But he is a good leader,
right, whereas Anakin is actually Anakin's

926
01:16:56.239 --> 01:17:00.079
a doer. He And the thing
is that when you get into the Clone

927
01:17:00.079 --> 01:17:04.359
Wars, he is actually perceived as
being an extraordinary person to follow as a

928
01:17:04.439 --> 01:17:09.880
general in this last So so I
want to take this on face value,

929
01:17:09.920 --> 01:17:14.720
because yeah, the Clone Wars,
so much of what he does is so

930
01:17:14.800 --> 01:17:19.680
deeply individualistic, like you've mentioned,
and there is a sort of simplicity almost

931
01:17:19.680 --> 01:17:24.640
in the power of being like a
war general as opposed to like doing the

932
01:17:24.680 --> 01:17:30.479
more complex work of leading like a
country or or galax or whatever that looks

933
01:17:30.479 --> 01:17:34.920
like a republic or a crew of
four hundred people. When you're not looking

934
01:17:35.000 --> 01:17:42.079
for conflict, you're looking for exploration. It's two very different types of leadership.

935
01:17:43.560 --> 01:17:53.239
And yeah, I think I and
as deeply trusted, but is ultimately

936
01:17:53.319 --> 01:18:00.920
very dangerous because of his true individualistic
perspective. No, you do. I

937
01:18:00.000 --> 01:18:08.399
love this discussion. I love this
discussion. Yeah, how interesting? What

938
01:18:08.479 --> 01:18:11.920
about you, Aspen? Well?
What do you love? What do I

939
01:18:11.960 --> 01:18:19.399
love? A lot of stuff?
I love starships? Take my walk lighter

940
01:18:19.479 --> 01:18:25.840
and clip it. Don't you take
my writchard buddy and nip it. If

941
01:18:25.920 --> 01:18:32.039
you spill the tea, I'm gonna
snip it. A starship it exactly.

942
01:18:32.520 --> 01:18:35.039
Ask him? What the heck are
we doing right now? Gotta name my

943
01:18:35.159 --> 01:18:42.600
favorite vehicle slash ships from either and
our favorite kissy kissy ships. We've got

944
01:18:42.600 --> 01:18:49.680
to got to we absolutely must.
Boy, what an embarrassment of riches this?

945
01:18:49.880 --> 01:18:54.319
I So before we start, though, I have to show you something.

946
01:18:54.840 --> 01:19:00.199
Of course, Joel and I have
gifts for you. I will give

947
01:19:00.239 --> 01:19:04.960
them to you in physical form,
but first I will show shut the door.

948
01:19:05.279 --> 01:19:11.279
Look at this one of them.
We have the Delta seven Ether Sprite,

949
01:19:11.399 --> 01:19:15.600
which is one of the ships that
you have named as your favorite ships.

950
01:19:15.840 --> 01:19:19.920
Uh, so that is one and
then the other. We're gonna give

951
01:19:19.920 --> 01:19:29.079
you this little mint, the Nabu
Royal and one star Fighter. So next

952
01:19:29.079 --> 01:19:31.760
time I see you on you tim
t you and so sweet, thank you

953
01:19:32.000 --> 01:19:35.920
so much. Yeah, we can. I can't wait to hold them and

954
01:19:36.560 --> 01:19:40.760
put them next to the rest of
my Yes, you've been to my apartment.

955
01:19:40.800 --> 01:19:45.079
I've got a little a tiny shelf
with all of my tiny ships on

956
01:19:45.119 --> 01:19:47.119
it, and I am very excited
to put it on the shelf of ship.

957
01:19:47.159 --> 01:19:49.760
I've got a little shelves at the
ship shelf. Yeah, a new

958
01:19:49.840 --> 01:19:56.800
tiny ships and Falcon Gollo enterprise.
Right. Uh do I have a little

959
01:19:57.199 --> 01:20:02.199
I have several enterprises up up there
on my on top of my Blue Rain

960
01:20:02.239 --> 01:20:06.279
show. I got the NXO one. I've got the Kelvin Versus enterprise that

961
01:20:06.399 --> 01:20:13.760
is also a Blu Ray container.
I have an enterprise that was made by

962
01:20:14.000 --> 01:20:17.800
I don't know, my my grandfather's
wife got me this and it's it's great.

963
01:20:19.479 --> 01:20:24.479
Well know you got more, Yes, just got some little guys.

964
01:20:24.720 --> 01:20:29.119
Yes, but we're not here to
talk about the little guys. That,

965
01:20:30.319 --> 01:20:35.039
yes, we're talking about the big
guys. And here here is what I'm

966
01:20:35.079 --> 01:20:42.479
going to pick. I'm picking the
Woden from The Ultimate Computer, the cargo

967
01:20:42.600 --> 01:20:49.920
ship, the one it blows up. Yes, And here's here's what's fascinating.

968
01:20:50.399 --> 01:20:54.359
We get multiple ships in this one, which we don't often get right

969
01:20:54.399 --> 01:20:56.399
because I was like, no,
we didn't even talk about how like they

970
01:20:56.439 --> 01:20:59.359
were set up to war games.
It was like, oh my god,

971
01:20:59.399 --> 01:21:01.840
we didn't even talk talk about how
I genuinely sat there, like the stakes

972
01:21:01.840 --> 01:21:05.680
of this episode are terrifyingly high.
Yes, but if they don't stop this

973
01:21:05.680 --> 01:21:11.039
thing, it's going it's already murdered
people, and it's going to murder more

974
01:21:11.119 --> 01:21:15.119
people. Oh, terrifying. But
yes, so many additional ships, yes,

975
01:21:16.920 --> 01:21:23.760
And so we're going to get into
more of this later on. But

976
01:21:23.880 --> 01:21:28.880
the Woden as not just in The
Ultimate Computer, but in the remastered version

977
01:21:28.880 --> 01:21:31.560
of The Ultimate Computer, because in
the original version it's just the Botany Bay

978
01:21:31.600 --> 01:21:38.399
from Space Seed, because again,
this was an episode I needed to save

979
01:21:38.520 --> 01:21:43.520
Buddy. So they're using stock footage. But at the remastered version they pull

980
01:21:45.279 --> 01:21:53.079
a design from the animated series that
we will see and I believe this is

981
01:21:53.439 --> 01:21:59.840
if you're watching this on Paramount Plus. I did. This is probably the

982
01:21:59.840 --> 01:22:04.159
first time that we have seen a
Starfleet ship that is not just an enterprise

983
01:22:05.399 --> 01:22:14.600
type ship. It's a weird,
wild design where it has a massive nittle

984
01:22:14.640 --> 01:22:17.960
section because I guess it's mostly a
cargo ship something along those lines. I

985
01:22:18.000 --> 01:22:25.720
forget exactly. Oh, I guess
this model was first featured in Charlie X,

986
01:22:25.960 --> 01:22:29.079
at least some of the remastered stuff. But that's so interesting. But

987
01:22:29.119 --> 01:22:35.039
anyways, there they're stealing. Ah. Yes, of course this is used

988
01:22:35.079 --> 01:22:40.520
in the Trouble with Treble SQL that
we'll get to in the animated series.

989
01:22:43.079 --> 01:22:48.359
But I absolutely it's such a weird, lopsided, funky design where there's so

990
01:22:48.439 --> 01:22:53.800
many starships in Star Trek that look
cool, sleek and stuff. It's big

991
01:22:54.199 --> 01:22:58.560
and chonky and it doesn't really make
sense. And I really enjoy that.

992
01:22:59.199 --> 01:23:04.359
I love it. That. Oh
that's great, so mine, I've already

993
01:23:04.439 --> 01:23:06.920
named it and I don't, but
I don't know what it's if it has

994
01:23:06.960 --> 01:23:12.279
an official name at all, but
it is. It's not necessarily a ship

995
01:23:12.279 --> 01:23:16.800
because it is more of a like
underground type of subway. But when the

996
01:23:16.960 --> 01:23:23.720
Jedi who led by shok t are
trying to get Palpatine to safety, get

997
01:23:23.800 --> 01:23:29.199
him to like this kind of safety
room. They're effectively they're underground and they're

998
01:23:29.279 --> 01:23:32.079
getting him to this. Like as
I'm remembering, there's so many visuals in

999
01:23:32.079 --> 01:23:35.600
this. It's like a just a
giant sphere, right, it's a giant

1000
01:23:35.640 --> 01:23:42.800
sphere, but it's like the walls
of the tunnel have like grooves in them,

1001
01:23:42.840 --> 01:23:45.279
like horizontal grooves, yes, and
they have like these blades out to

1002
01:23:45.319 --> 01:23:49.840
the side of this like sphere.
And then it just goes through, like

1003
01:23:49.880 --> 01:23:54.720
it just shoots through the tunnel and
it goes and it does that thing where

1004
01:23:54.720 --> 01:23:57.640
it's not just going straight the entire
time. It's in like shooting up and

1005
01:23:57.760 --> 01:24:01.319
around like like the kind of like
the elevator and Willy Wonka it can go

1006
01:24:01.359 --> 01:24:05.279
in like all directions kind of thing. But again it's not like it's hovering.

1007
01:24:05.399 --> 01:24:09.039
It's actually kind of it's like connected. It's like in the walls,

1008
01:24:09.199 --> 01:24:14.279
but it's the sphere itself, and
it's just so fucking it's so cool.

1009
01:24:15.079 --> 01:24:19.800
I love it so many cool ough
just just devolved into us yelling in the

1010
01:24:19.800 --> 01:24:26.159
microphones thing it's sod and if it's
you know, and if it weren't wouldn't

1011
01:24:26.159 --> 01:24:28.640
be for that. This is not
this is one of those like it's not

1012
01:24:28.720 --> 01:24:32.279
a ship. It's not even like
a vehicle vehicle, it's an animal.

1013
01:24:32.560 --> 01:24:36.279
But I really do fucking love that. I don't even know what it is

1014
01:24:36.279 --> 01:24:40.880
that Yoda rise. He wrote it
in the first like the very first like

1015
01:24:41.119 --> 01:24:44.760
scene basically a Volume one as well. But it like looks like it's like

1016
01:24:44.800 --> 01:24:46.920
a tontin, but it's not.
It's not like it's a cousin of an

1017
01:24:47.199 --> 01:24:50.520
According to the commentary of Volume two, Okay, it's a ton it looks

1018
01:24:50.560 --> 01:24:54.640
like it, but it like not
on a on a snowy planet, and

1019
01:24:54.680 --> 01:24:59.520
it just fucking rolls. I love
that one. But I'm gonna go with

1020
01:24:59.640 --> 01:25:06.079
Giants Spirit Subway in terms of relation
ships Aspen. I'm gonna I'm gonna pull

1021
01:25:06.079 --> 01:25:10.279
this card. I'm having a hard
time, dude, because I can't.

1022
01:25:10.399 --> 01:25:13.800
I can't use Anakin patne I know, which is like this would be the

1023
01:25:13.840 --> 01:25:19.520
time to actually do it right because
they rule in this Yeah, I should

1024
01:25:19.560 --> 01:25:23.840
have thought this one through too.
I'm always always waiting until last second time.

1025
01:25:23.880 --> 01:25:28.239
I could be disingenuous and say Daystream
in the N five, but it's

1026
01:25:28.359 --> 01:25:31.000
it's not a ship more than a
father son relationship. It is, which

1027
01:25:31.199 --> 01:25:36.119
is its own kind of thing,
right, and it's like radiating sexual chemistry

1028
01:25:36.119 --> 01:25:41.319
off the screen. No, unless
you go for who's that other guy?

1029
01:25:42.119 --> 01:25:45.920
O? They're kind of shitty?
Was he a Captain Bob Wesley, Admiral

1030
01:25:45.000 --> 01:25:50.279
what was it? Commodore? Commodore
Bob Wesley? Again, gotta point out

1031
01:25:50.800 --> 01:25:55.600
my fate. Oh man, it's
one of my favorite Star Trek tropes.

1032
01:25:56.279 --> 01:26:00.880
You have a high falutant officer in
these extraordinary circumstance in their names like Bob

1033
01:26:01.239 --> 01:26:09.399
or Bill yeah, common or Wesley's
commodore Bob Wesley, Commodore Wesley. I

1034
01:26:09.439 --> 01:26:13.039
guess if you're if you want agree
also a little distant genuous, you go

1035
01:26:13.159 --> 01:26:18.920
for like a commodore Wesley Captain Kirk
kind of vibe because it's not nice and

1036
01:26:18.960 --> 01:26:21.199
so you can kind of see it
being like a little bit of a like

1037
01:26:21.880 --> 01:26:28.680
sexy undermining like that kind of thing. Why don't you go I'm going to

1038
01:26:28.800 --> 01:26:32.199
keep mulling over it and then I
will provide an answer. I promise you.

1039
01:26:32.880 --> 01:26:36.359
I'm going to go with what's the
name of that planet that they go

1040
01:26:36.439 --> 01:26:43.439
to that's snowy nel VNLVN, which
is important. Got to point this out,

1041
01:26:43.439 --> 01:26:45.720
and I'm pretty sure you planted this
out in the last episode. It's

1042
01:26:45.760 --> 01:26:51.319
called nel Von as a homage to
the animation company that made the holiday special

1043
01:26:51.359 --> 01:26:59.279
cartoon Androids an Ewoks now Von.
Okay, animators recognize animators, Yes,

1044
01:27:00.960 --> 01:27:03.359
nel Von, I'm gonna go with
this is just a sweet little ship.

1045
01:27:05.079 --> 01:27:12.520
The main warrior who like the main
warrior who was able to like he was

1046
01:27:12.680 --> 01:27:15.479
the one who was able to like
lead the charge and help Anakin and direct

1047
01:27:15.520 --> 01:27:20.239
him to like how to turn this
off. He and his partner. There's

1048
01:27:20.319 --> 01:27:29.439
this moment when he's brought back and
all of these like these partners, these

1049
01:27:29.479 --> 01:27:35.399
women, the children are seeing these
like grotesque creatures come back, and these

1050
01:27:35.439 --> 01:27:41.439
are all like the loves, like
their loves right and like their their fathers,

1051
01:27:42.399 --> 01:27:47.279
and there's something gentle about Yeah,
the main kind of like the leader

1052
01:27:47.319 --> 01:27:50.359
warrior kind of coming in and his
child coming to him. And then so

1053
01:27:50.359 --> 01:27:58.199
I'm gonna go for him and his
partner and they're gentle accepting love. Okay,

1054
01:27:58.399 --> 01:28:02.039
I got a ship. Okay.
This is based off the commentary where

1055
01:28:02.039 --> 01:28:05.760
they said it as a bit,
but I'm making it Cannon okay, ked

1056
01:28:05.920 --> 01:28:13.199
Mooney Mondy and and Ala Sekira and
maybe shock to you too, just like

1057
01:28:13.279 --> 01:28:16.319
as a cool little throuble. Yeah, because love it. Here's here's what

1058
01:28:16.399 --> 01:28:23.079
happens at the beginning of the thing. You know, they're literally starting where

1059
01:28:23.119 --> 01:28:27.560
the previous DVD left off or the
thing on Disney Plus went right right.

1060
01:28:28.239 --> 01:28:33.359
Uh. And then key D Monday, very Unjedi like whenever all the Clones

1061
01:28:33.399 --> 01:28:40.359
come in to save them, says
no, we must pursue, and the

1062
01:28:40.399 --> 01:28:43.800
Clones have to. The Clones are
the more even keeled once through the normally

1063
01:28:43.880 --> 01:28:50.680
even killed right. And then yes, Monday finds out that a Len shocked

1064
01:28:50.680 --> 01:28:58.000
to You're alive. Yeah, I
so key D. Monday wants revenge because

1065
01:28:58.319 --> 01:29:03.960
secret throuple it. Love it.
I think that's great. Kitty Mondy,

1066
01:29:04.199 --> 01:29:08.560
that's a good shift that I found. Yeah, that was given to me

1067
01:29:08.600 --> 01:29:11.640
on the DVD commentary of Clone Wars
Volume two. That's what we gotta do.

1068
01:29:11.800 --> 01:29:14.239
That's what we gotta do. Well, that's not all we gotta do,

1069
01:29:14.359 --> 01:29:16.199
actually, aspen, because we have
to come to the conceit of the

1070
01:29:16.239 --> 01:29:24.279
podcast, we finally, numerically objectively
have to answer which is better Star Trek

1071
01:29:24.359 --> 01:29:30.039
or Star Wars by ranking the Ultimate
Computer versus Star Wars, Clone Wars Volume

1072
01:29:30.239 --> 01:29:35.119
two against each other. And remember, Aspen, art is objective. Art

1073
01:29:35.199 --> 01:29:40.439
is a binary. You can rank
this stuff objectively. God, there's no

1074
01:29:40.560 --> 01:29:44.279
quality. You can't just enjoy it
both. One is better never never,

1075
01:29:45.079 --> 01:29:49.960
absolutely foolish to think foolish. And
I'm going to go, I'm going to

1076
01:29:50.039 --> 01:29:55.680
start you off with the Ultimate Computer
from zero to ten. Whether you rank

1077
01:29:55.680 --> 01:30:00.520
the Ultimate Computer nine point one.
Oh, you do love to see it?

1078
01:30:00.119 --> 01:30:04.960
M h m hmm, outstanding,
ten, ten, being sitting on

1079
01:30:05.039 --> 01:30:10.760
the edge forever. Yeah, which
is nice. I love it's you know

1080
01:30:10.800 --> 01:30:15.760
what, Aspen Tennis also my empire, so Aspen I'm feeling it. Yeah,

1081
01:30:15.000 --> 01:30:18.319
I'm feeling it. Yeah, I
think it's a nine point five.

1082
01:30:18.680 --> 01:30:23.199
There you go. I think it's
an there you go. And I am

1083
01:30:23.239 --> 01:30:26.680
doing that and I'm putting that in
the spreadsheet and I'm a little scared of

1084
01:30:26.800 --> 01:30:30.680
using it because it feels too good
and that's why I have to do it.

1085
01:30:30.039 --> 01:30:34.520
Okay, Wow, you're gonna love
this. Here we go Clone Wars

1086
01:30:34.560 --> 01:30:39.479
Volume two as Clone Wars Volume two
nine point five. Hell, yeah,

1087
01:30:39.600 --> 01:30:44.079
you do love to see it.
Fucking love it. It's so good,

1088
01:30:45.199 --> 01:30:55.399
so good. How about you?
I'm gonna give it a nine point one.

1089
01:30:55.960 --> 01:31:08.199
Okay, we just did eat it
in a historic first for our podcast.

1090
01:31:09.680 --> 01:31:13.439
We can we cannot answer the question
of which is better Start or Star

1091
01:31:13.479 --> 01:31:20.279
Wars. It is. It is
a tie. Oh there, fall It

1092
01:31:20.359 --> 01:31:35.760
is a tie. Two beautiful episodes. What wonderful serendipity good great, great

1093
01:31:35.840 --> 01:31:43.640
job. We did it againess like
poetry, so that they ride. That's

1094
01:31:43.720 --> 01:31:47.640
the let's Pittarny one in nine point
three is the is the Yeah? Nine

1095
01:31:47.680 --> 01:31:50.199
point three, both of them.
Clone Wars Volume two, nine point three,

1096
01:31:50.399 --> 01:31:55.399
the Ultimate Computer nine point three.
I think the real winner is us.

1097
01:31:55.640 --> 01:31:59.880
It is us. Again. If
you're having a bad week like my,

1098
01:32:00.000 --> 01:32:03.680
watch these things, watch Clone Wars, watch this episode Star Trek.

1099
01:32:03.800 --> 01:32:11.399
Feel so happy, feels so good, so good, listen and you're not

1100
01:32:11.479 --> 01:32:17.239
the only one that feels good aspen
as we hop over and talk about patrons

1101
01:32:17.439 --> 01:32:23.479
over at patreon dot com slash track
Wars pod, where you too could subscribe

1102
01:32:23.840 --> 01:32:27.279
for five dollars a month and get
early versions of these episodes and extended version

1103
01:32:27.279 --> 01:32:30.239
of the episodes. Again. Also, I mean, you can just send

1104
01:32:30.319 --> 01:32:32.960
us an email too, but you
can correspond with us as well, such

1105
01:32:33.000 --> 01:32:40.560
as the messages that we have here
useer feel yet in regards to our Patreon

1106
01:32:40.600 --> 01:32:44.239
discussion of Dune on the Star Wars
episode two Attack the Clones versus by any

1107
01:32:44.239 --> 01:32:47.279
other name, where you talked about
Dune feeling at comments, dunk and Idaho

1108
01:32:47.399 --> 01:32:54.560
is the key to all of this. Oh, probably because he's a funnier

1109
01:32:54.640 --> 01:33:00.279
character than we've ever had. Duncan
Idaho. What kind of space name is

1110
01:33:00.359 --> 01:33:08.359
Don gern Ido? And then also
canonically we have Arizona Mark commenting on that

1111
01:33:08.439 --> 01:33:14.920
episode, American graffiti and space for
the opening of Attack of the Clones.

1112
01:33:15.520 --> 01:33:24.159
Highly enjoyable, love it. And
then also this is really fun. Tiffany

1113
01:33:24.399 --> 01:33:28.760
L. No, PhD, Associate
teaching professor at the Department of Popular Culture

1114
01:33:29.439 --> 01:33:34.479
at Bowling Green State University, because
I used her essay in regards to Clone

1115
01:33:34.479 --> 01:33:43.560
Wars as research for our podcast what
and she says, Dear Kenny, thank

1116
01:33:43.600 --> 01:33:46.640
you for the kind words about my
chapter. I'd love to talk further.

1117
01:33:46.720 --> 01:33:53.840
So let's do this. Oh my
gosh, take care. Tiffany rules.

1118
01:33:54.079 --> 01:33:58.479
So we got to get her on
the podcast. She has an essay in

1119
01:33:58.479 --> 01:34:03.600
regards to the two d Clone War
in regards to its plays in specifically superhero

1120
01:34:03.640 --> 01:34:10.800
cartoon culture. Uh and it's it's
pretty interesting. So thank you Tiffany for

1121
01:34:11.399 --> 01:34:15.279
that. I got to read that
now, so Tiffany thinks highly of me

1122
01:34:15.319 --> 01:34:18.399
as well. I need to impress
Tiffany now, Oh boy, Well,

1123
01:34:18.439 --> 01:34:21.279
she's not the only one we need
to impress, because we need to impress

1124
01:34:21.359 --> 01:34:28.319
fine folks and our patrons find faults
such as Timbo De Sosa, Emily Brice,

1125
01:34:28.359 --> 01:34:30.520
Love, Heidi Rogers, Kevin Millier, Mark Vipper, Aaron Science and

1126
01:34:30.640 --> 01:34:36.319
lastly, but certainly not leastly joelt
Partner, who also wrote our fabulous I

1127
01:34:36.479 --> 01:34:42.039
Starship theme song. Our theme song
is by mister tossin Awa Fesso. Please

1128
01:34:42.039 --> 01:34:45.319
go give him some business by clicking
on the link in the show notes for

1129
01:34:45.399 --> 01:34:51.159
his services. He is absolutely wonderful. If you want to just email us

1130
01:34:51.159 --> 01:34:56.279
in general, you can follow the
offices of our friend Tiffany Nole and just

1131
01:34:56.319 --> 01:35:00.680
send us an email at treck Woards
Pod at gmail dot com. And finally,

1132
01:35:00.720 --> 01:35:03.239
you can also follow us on the
socials at Blue Sky and Instagram.

1133
01:35:03.279 --> 01:35:06.319
We technically have a Twitter, but
I would like to stay off of that

1134
01:35:06.439 --> 01:35:13.479
because Elon Musk is a criminal.
I'm sure. Yeah, it's been getting

1135
01:35:13.479 --> 01:35:16.039
worse and worse. Absolutely, but
you know it hasn't been getting worse and

1136
01:35:16.079 --> 01:35:21.960
worse. Our love, our love, Aspen. I freaking love you.

1137
01:35:23.039 --> 01:35:25.720
I love talking with you so much, and I'm so glad that you're my

1138
01:35:25.800 --> 01:35:30.079
friend. I'm glad you're my friend. That's so nice of you to say

1139
01:35:30.279 --> 01:35:33.319
I had a bad week and you
made my day better. Uh. And

1140
01:35:33.399 --> 01:35:38.560
because we have a tie, I
can't usually I can't do our normal sign

1141
01:35:38.600 --> 01:35:45.760
off because you haven't put this together. But usually I put the winner first

1142
01:35:45.000 --> 01:35:48.079
of either live long and prosper and
may the Force be with your Star Wars

1143
01:35:48.159 --> 01:35:50.840
wins, May the Force be with
you, and live long and prosper But

1144
01:35:51.359 --> 01:35:56.279
I've never noticed. Yeah, of
course, Aspen, if you could say

1145
01:35:56.600 --> 01:35:59.880
the Star Wars component and I could
say the Star Trek component, and we

1146
01:36:00.039 --> 01:36:02.399
could wrap it at the exact same
time. Okay, here we go,

1147
01:36:02.520 --> 01:36:14.800
Ready, here we here we go, Man and prosperous. I genuinely was

1148
01:36:14.880 --> 01:36:15.560
like, am I saying it