Storm Over Ryloth vs. Requiem for Methuselah

0:28 Welcome to the Track Wars podcast, the one podcast that dares to answer the most important question in fandom, which is better Star Trek or Star Wars, by going through both franchises in chronological release order. My name is Kany Madison. I am the Star Trek contingent with me Asper always as an executive co host. Aspend Webster Star Wars contingent an executive bitch. And you're wondering where you've seen Aspen before, you must realize that Aspen wrote a waltz. I wrote the first Bible, painted the p Trouvian man Yep, invented the wheel. Also I invented the flying machine. Also the faded carsage London to the ground.

1:18 Yeah. I also did a cool uh. I did a cool ship maneuver where I turned my ship on its side. Also had a blockade on a planet. I'm so famous, you'd never know. Asen like a storm coming in to a planet. That's right, we're talking about Requiem for Matthews Levet from Star Trek the Original series, season three versus Storm over Ryloth from Star Wars the Clone Wars season one. Yeah. Yeah, I'm not an executive bitch. I've been feeling bad while saying that for the last two minutes. Exactly, that's what your position is.

1:59 But like cool, like a cool bitch man, like a witch bitch an executive witch bitch Oby. That's absolutely fine, witchitch baby. Right, thanks, You're welcome. Asking shall we get to snasis for people that are playing the home game. Yeah, yeah, I love that. I love that. Oh my gosh, am I starting? Are you starting? I'm starting? Okay? Uh for the TV guide, Uh start. In nineteen sixty nine, WIM from Methuselah, the men of the Enterprise intrude on a private paradise inhabited by two remarkable individuals, Flint, a man of extraordinary scientific and artistic accomplishments, and Flint's beautiful word raina superbly educated but completely insulated from all human emotions. Qreciam for Methuselah, written by Jerome Bigsby, first aired.

2:53 I Got It, I got It, You got It, You got. It, directed by Murray Golden and first aired. I'm sure that it was in January of nineteen sixty nine. I believe you. I know it's nineteen sixteen nine. We Went, We Went, dude in nineteen sixty. Nine, even Steven has just passed me over completely. It's wild to me. Valentine's Day. This episode premiere February fourteenth, nineteen sixty nine. That's truly the most romantic thing you could have released on that day. I don't know, Aspen. We got Storm over Ryloff coming up. Well, that was released a little after Valentine's Day, but still in the month of February, so pretty close.

3:37 It's wild. I mean, if you're talking about a real love story, and the love story is about believing in yourself when it comes to getting people killed, really it does what what what? They'll be Okay, they'll be fine, can I I know we'll get into this when I get into the like behind into the scenes, I think I do, but I uh. And also definitely first impression stuff, deep dive things. But I was like, this episode is doing it for me. There's obviously stuff happening that we can talk about, but it's doing it for me in the way that when you watch something and you're like, yeah, this is good, like versus when you watch something and you're like right, And I looked at I looked up and I realized Jerome Bicks, we wrote Mirror mirror you wrote Dated the Dove. Like, I'm like, oh, so that's an extremely composite well wrote things with DC Fontanay, but like it realized a very competent writer, you know, get star Trek, you know, and like has interesting ideas. And I was like, okay, no good. You see, Like even if it's like, oh, that was pretty good, at least we're like exploring concepts, you know, yes.

4:52 Which I mean yeah again, we'll get into this. We'll get into this. But like Jerome, am I right, we haven't had that much exploration of things, right. There is a little bit there is a little bit of like I am a I'm a thirsty man in the desert. Oh boy, a storm over Ryloth Clone Wars Star Wars. Clone Wars released February twenty seventh, two thousand and nine. What if it would have been Nope, not that year, leave here and come in February twenty ninth. That would have been cool anyway, let's see. And it was written by well, Henry Gilroy is a series writer.

5:33 Who is that one? Oh is George Christick, who's the writer writer on this one? And then it was directed by Brian Colin O'Connell extremely Irish name. Here is our description. The Separatives have invaded the Twilight home planet of Ryloth, hence storm over Ryloth. I believe this is the first of three. In this little arc, Anakin and Ahsoka lead a squadron of fighters against a trade generation battleship commanded by Namoidian Captain Martuk. More specifically, this is not going into it in the way that I want it to. First, Ahsoka leads a squadron of fighters, and the propelling force of this episode is that she loses most of her squadron due to not following orders and kind of acting recklessly, and then she has to manage and deal with her guilt, her shame, and Anakin effectively actually is an extraordinary mentor leading into both his I'm getting into editorializing, but in terms of kind of reflecting on his own tendencies and then guiding her toward greater confidence with a new strategy.

6:43 Rat episode the rest. But before we get into our deep dive, we got some correspondence to deal with. Guess like poetry. So if they rhyn. From Austin Aeron, let me get it make fun of us, for. We'll see. The subject line reads new song idea podcasters Delight. I'm entirely sure what that means. Fun podcaster's delight. Every day I'm listening to master Our Wars? Is that one? Is that what we want? That's right, you're listening.

7:24 You never watch a single, always listening to bus Star Wars. Yeah, come on. Here we go. Hello from Austin. Hello. My head was full of normal questions, like if you had to pick a third franchise to add to this podcast, which would it be? Yeah? What about that one that I've never seen? What is it called again? Stargate? Nope, the other one, the other one, Doctor Who. It's also got it's got aliens, it's people in a ship. What do you start with? The Bee? Is the bee? B It's not Batlon five?

8:07 Yeah, we would run out of things so fast. But also that'd be fun, but that's not the question again. Uh. Also I would. Add Batman because I'm on a Batman kick at the moment. And what does it mean that all the characters and Clone Wars are so. Caked up as then full of makeup bloptious? They ave the really smooth they got a lot of smooth spece. It means that they got a lot of But. Do you think that's what that means? You're right in and tell us what you mean with it's so kicked up. But then I heard the post credits chat last week and I got derailed. He listens all the way through. Yeah, that's really funny.

8:49 I didn't know anybody did. I do love the single screen theaters and the cool things they've been showy in Austin. Not Sparatus Silence. Sincd At the Millennium was great, But note to all the introductions, slinging and speech making proprietors of those venues. Stop. Context providing should always happen after a work of art, never before. Disagree. This is a hill I will die on. If you made something cool or want an audience to understand the time at which a piece of art was made, provide a talkback session or panel after it's been seen. Don't give us an introduction, don't set the stage. Let the art speak for itself first, even if if it's your art. It's a choice to include or not include context within the art itself, and artists have to live with that choice. The art is that choice to some degree, and there is no way to provide true context to a piece through a singular introduction, because context is never going to be universal. We all have our own experiences outside of art. Let the audience have their own experience inside art. Thanks for letting me rant about a throwaway comment you made in the last thirty seconds of your podcast, A rabbit robot with a big ass, Austin Eron see it was having big butts. That's what it means about the worst characters.

10:01 I say, kicked up, kicked up. I very much understand Austin's perspective. What do you think that's I agree? You agree with Austin Air. I think it depends. Yeah, I agree with Austin Air. I agree with Are. I think it depends on the type of context we're giving. I'm thinking of like the Terror Tuesday Nights. I'm trying to remember what we were talking about with that, but the Terror Tuesday Nights at the Album draft House, I feel like there's a context of that is specific that because that is actually run by a guy who was collected like they as part of his collection, and his context is actually about his own Usually it's like kind of his personal experience with something, and I think that's very engaging. But I am of the opinion I am of a very similar opinion of I I like to like know a touch about what I want. I like to know what I'm kind of like sort of getting myself into. I think that art should. Okay, here's what I agree with him, what I'm trying to find, which is what he is sort of getting at as a touch of the death of the death of the artist kind of concept, which is, once you've put your art into the world, it belongs to the consumers of the art as well. So you might have had an intention for that art, and that is very valid. But if someone takes in your art and maybe takes it in a different way, that is also a very valid interpretation.

11:30 This gets can get money. We of course, you know, we also can't control how people take in art, right, We cannot control that and we cannot dictate that once that our zone in the world. I'm thinking about what else Star Wars, sure, and the religious fervor that it is now revered as where you have to fit a very specific vision of what Star Wars is that thing that you and I talk about, which is what is the feeling of Star Wars. We know when we see it. Well, we can't precisely art all the time, even though you and me are like we want it to be in new and. Different directions, but at the same time because it existed in Amber for so long. Basically, yeah, it is this kind of religious idea as opposed in terms of like how the rest of Star Wars should be executed, as opposed to what Lucas intended as originally, which is just like I want to do a style exercise because it would be.

12:25 Fun right well, and even the idea of Lucas once his work is out there getting to decide. I mean, Lucas himself is the one fighting back against this idea that he gets to just he got to decide the narrative after a certain point of being the ultimate arbiture of arbiter of what this is. And there's the like for better or worse kind of idea. But yeah, like to say, oh, we need to be true to this vision, and it's like this is what it is for you, And we do all explore and engage with these properties and very this property and in these different stories in very different ways. My favorite story about death of the author that I've told I'm sure before, and I will just tell you again because I think this is a really good example is the season two Flea Bag bit about how she in Flea Bags, she she breaks the fourth wall and turns to the audience and makes a comment.

13:29 For the first whole season, it's just something she does. By the second season, she starts to spend time with hot Priest and he can tell when he can tell when she breaks that fourth wall. He's like, what are you doing? Where'd you go? When I watched that? I took that in so holy and fully as he It's almost like her dissociated disassociation from the moment of her anxiety and her coping mechanism, and he can it's that he is so present with her that he can notice those moments of her trying to check out. Yeah, and that's how I took it. Phoebe while our Bridge came out later as being like, it's because he's close to God, and I was like, ah no, but that's what she intended.

14:15 That's why. No, means how I took it in. And I got to tell you, his closeness to God means nothing to me but the idea of disassociation and someone being so present with you emotionally, that they're with you. That means everything to me, you know. And here's where I am for the notion of providing context, and I completely understand Austin Aaron's idea. I think not providing context would work with more traditional pieces of art, more recent pieces of art. And also for my birthday, I went to go see speed Racer, a movie that I brought a fair amount of friends to, and I was like, please, for my birthday, I want to watch speed Racer. And then the folks at Hyperreal Film Club provided the context of when speed Racer was released and how visionary that movie is and how how it has influenced so many things subsequently, even though it made like twelve dollars in a bottle of Ozarka at the box office.

15:15 Oh not even not even Dashani Ozarka, which is really unfortunate. And so. Couple that with a Terror Tuesday context providing where someone is providing how they love this. And then if you are able to place. A thing within a specific time, explain kind of the context at the time, because something that is also present within an audience. Experience is the context of time. Die Hard in nineteen eighty nine is going to be is going to mean something different than watching Diehard for the first time in twenty twenty four. And you're going to be like, Wow, this is a very right wing movie because it is still rules. But I guess, but I guess different.

16:03 There is a difference so between like the cultural effects of a film and getting that context and standing up there in front of you and saying, watching die Hard here in twenty twenty four, you'll notice it's a very right wing film because of our current context versus how, you know what I mean? So I think there is a difference between being like this is the like that's those two things are very different things. I get to decide for myself watching die Hard how I'm relating to it, especially given its current context. Now I get to decide it for myself. So if someone said that that top I'd be like, Okay, maybe you know or I mean it robs me of it robs me of my.

16:44 Experience of getting to like the historical context of how die Hard was made. When Diehard was made, maybe just like this was. In terms of his career, where John McTiernan was in terms of his career, how this movie was oddly at work or higher thing and just happened to be possibly the best. Action film of all time. I yeah, I wonder, I wonder this is. I think this is so interesting, Like maybe. I don't think there's a right answer. I think it's right case by case basis. Sure, Yeah, God, we should say something else that's wild in the last ten seconds. Agreed. I can't, even though I'd listen to every single episode, I kind of listen to the last thirty seconds.

17:27 So that's really funny. We still have more correspond us to get to. Oh my god, I'm sorry. I just I was like, oh, this is that's really funny, because sometimes when I would edit, I'd like cut off what we were talk about because I thought it was a funny joke. And now I'm really saying that it's much better if we just leave it on. Thank you, Austin Aaron, And then we have a comment on our YouTube channel. Cute from Plato step Children versus Layer of Grievous. This is a fabulous content, by the way, from at Nathan You eighteen ninety nine, on the subject of grievous and disability. I know, right, I think he's somewhat emblematic of a somewhat troubling recurring motif throughout Star Wars. Star Wars will often use the imagery related to technology and industry to represent the forces of evil and natural imagery to represent the forces of good. See second Death Star versus Forest mood of endor. As to go back to Death Star versus Yavin, Yavin's taking place at a stone temple. Obviously, this plays into meaningful commentary about how imperialism will often use mass industry to prop themselves up, even at the expense of the health of the natural world. However, when this imagery is used in relation to the body, it becomes a bit more dicey. Both Grievous and Vader are associated with this motif of evil technology by showing it and replacing parts of their bodies. But this imagery can't help but evokes the idea of prosthetics and almost ends up painting prosthetics as themselves evil. This is really unfortunate, especially given that there's already a stigma against people who need those accommodations. It's likely rooted in existing ablest tropes

18:57 around people with deformities as evil. I think we can see this really clearly in the two thousand and three Cold War series where Anakin's vision quest shows his fault to the dark side is explicitly tied to his robot hand, and whilst metaphorically interesting and visually striking, its implications are unfortunate. But bringing things back to the episode at hand, one of the things I like about this episode is the ambiguity of how Grievous came to be this way without direct reference to any kind of accident. In neatly sidesteps the disability issue. It becomes more of a parable of toxic self improvement. I give that three steps. For all we know, Grievous may have always been able bodied and simply valued the way his cybernetics made him more lethal. In this way, he's not only reflective of Fisto's former patawan, but perhaps with the war as a whole, all parties striving to become stronger and stronger at the expense of their own humanity. Grievous is a one man arms race.

19:53 Oh what a cool, cool take. That comment is fire. The comment is fire, and I I think it's a yeah, it's a It's an extraordinarily interesting conversation. I wonder something that they said there kind of sparked for me, Like the idea of Grievous's origin, as I, you know, what is canon, but like I guess the story of it, which as I understand it to be, which is he was made to be this thing? Like what does that like?

20:35 The kind of robbing of agency in that case, Like that kind of argument is actually very cool, and it does give him so much power over his own body, his own desire to move towards something. Yeah, that that beautiful phrase in there, the idea that it is taken away and he is now indebted through those cybernetics that is its own. That's that's actually a real horror. Not that, not the disability itself, but like the taking away. What is him for to take away his power even though he has he has this kind of physical power. What is that? You know? Taking away the sort of agency type of power? Yeah, is its own sort of conversation. But yeah, what a cool fire what fire comment?

21:24 Yeah? I don't think that there's anything that I could add to that. What an extraordinarily insightful comment. And please keep writing in. Oh just say nice not you know, I say nice things, but say cool things. Guys. Do you guys you guys say cool things things. Why don't we go ahead and get into our first impressions? Yay, fire, we have a good episode, and we have like a great episode, an extraordinary episode. Yeah, yeah, something that I I'm a fan of, just in terms of surprising narrative, sparseness, a real character piece.

22:07 Oh swarm over y Oh yeah, is super is although there is some interesting battle dynamics, but not battle dynamics for the sake of themselves, which I grew very bored with. I like when, sorry what I grew very. Bored with that. I grow very tired of battles, very tired. I'm just so tired of all these Star Wars. You know. What, I understand Clone Wars. The timber of Clone Wars changes, and it's not just Battle of the Week. Look, it seems to be a lot in this first season. And make no mistake, like I told you, I'm enjoying watching Clone Wars. And also, this was seven seasons of just kind of this. I get sleepy. I'm not sleepy. And this episode clearly is like, oh, we're doing something very different.

23:03 Oh yes, here, dare I say. It is a little emblematic of Empire strikes back. Oh, oh my gosh, I can't believe. In fact, you dared. I know, not just in terms of the fact that Ahsoka loses, which eventually she wins, but just in terms of just in terms of an episode that is preoccupied more with putting the characters through an emotional journey as opposed. To plot stuff plot. We gotta have a plot happen. The plot is an extension of let's put this character through the ringer, which. Is in my quizit, in my opinion, is ideal. I am oh, I am oh, I am a chaw. Plot is characters wanting things and relationships. That's all it really is, and which is why, especially in a context of like a battle show or is it a war movie or something I I it's it would not be interesting to me if it were not driven by how it affects, Like the choices we make in these battles are affecting these people and the relationships to each other and what that means. Yeah, this is actually I feel like I kept hinting toward this episode for a while, like sometimes things would happen, I'd just be like, just you wait until like a boga gets everyone killed, Like it just fiks pretty fast. But yeah, it's a pretty beautiful episode.

24:38 It's a it's a gorgeous episode, and I think indicative of I have a sneakst suspicion, it's negative of stopped to come. Yeah, I that kind of comment about the idea of if it were just this over and over again. I feel like it feels a lot like others shows that get to have their first season of sort of being like, this is an esta sablishing element. This is the idea, you know, like a Buffy. Where it's like the exact same thing. Yeah, I mean I think that's kind of like a really good example of it. Of like obviously the first season of Buffy rules. And then also it gets to grow and be so many more things. So people are often like it's bad. I'm like, it's not bad. It's just establishing something, and then you get to try out new ideas and yeah, and no spoilers, but like Clone Wars gets to have a lot of fabulously interesting arcs that are not just about these battles. It's about internal it's about turmoil, it's about finding pieces of who they are.

25:42 It's just kind of it's just interesting stuff, I think, And so I'm now realizing why people typically rank Season one lowest. But it doesn't mean it's bad. It just means that it gets it gets to go become so extraordinary. Right that it's like, Wow, it's a good fire show, a fire show. I'm already committed to the premise of the podcast. I'm already committed to watching all the Clone Awards. I'm you don't need to convince me anymore every week. I'm so excited. What a good shot? Would you like the best? Would you like best episode?

26:23 Tell me this is gonna se paratetensions as hell, But the script just like she failed, and we just live in that for a while. And it's not like even when we start trying to assign solutions immediately, it's just like we just live in that. The episode stomps so we can feel and. Filone talks about that too, and is filony zny where he was. Saying wanting to make a planet full of feelings? Yeah, I was like, yeah, it's like we weren't sitting with Ahsoka. Is pain enough? I want to see a fourteen year old safer?

27:08 Yeah, yeah, he does well. Even said he was like one of the episodes that took a lot of like kind of like editorial editing. I guess, like editorial editing. Yeah, like you talked about adding inserted like there's that seed where she's with Rex and another kind of not a commander. She's a commander, so someone else who's kind of high up in the ranks, and there's like these holograms and looking at He said he like added those sections because he just needed more time purge to just sit and feel, because he was saying there, like we're not spending enough time with Ahsoka just being and feeling these feelings, you know, like that's the that's the vibe.

27:48 And I appreciate that. Yeah, good good, good emotional characterization. Good characterization and like emotional expression. Yeah, I'm with you. Yeah, that's the thing that helped Star Wars evolve from just showing archetypes versus Empire, deepening our understanding of who these characters are, what makes them tick, making them more complex, and suddenly taking them from two D to three D. Yeah, and which helps because the entire show is in three D. It is, that's true. And every single time I go up to the TV and I try to flatten it, just like I put one hand behind the TV in one hand from of the TV and I go fly.

28:39 Well you can't because now it's two three dimensional, even for for your little hands. Hm. That's right. You can't stop it. You can't stop it. Oh, just beeful, just beful. You can only see the digit pack on YouTube, YouTube dot com, slash at track wars pod. Just YouTube dot com, YouTube dot com. Y'all heard of YouTube, y'all heard about the youtubees. It's all the range five years ago, yeah. Twelve, I yeah, I am with you. I think it's it's fantastic. I think other pieces of it that I love.

29:22 In addition to oh, I have to cough, I'm gonna, I'm gonna pause. Coughing. Dinner had halipanos in it, and sometimes they come back to haunt you. Oh aspens dinner. Report what you have for dinner tonight? I had fake beef bullggi uh, with rice and mushrooms. It's called beef bull fogy bullfogi. And for some reason, I'm forgetting what that Korean sauce is called.

30:04 I just call it sauce. Okay, well we'll remember it. I'm I'm too, I'm too too taken over by my my spice and had it had as on it. Anyways, isn't that great? It is great? And that's been aspen for more dinner. Report UPPs, we're working. They flind you. He's talk to my partner Joel. He's the one to cooks dinner. It's nice. It's really nice of him. The other piece is that I want to just point out, is also relationship building, Like this is one of the gentler moments I've seen with Anakin and Soka and I was talking about a little bit at the top when we were mentioning before we got into this deep dive piece, which is she so she she sucks up. She takes out the squadron. She thinks, Okay, I can I can make this, we can we can break through. We can break through this blackade. Uh and it just starts going wrong and the oh my god, what's his name? You must come back? Does that his name? He's also the announcer guy? What is like? I can't remember that character's name.

31:26 I know I should know this Wolf Wolf Wolf? His name is Wolf of Wall Street, Admiral. Is it you, Alred Wolf? I don't think you can just keep saying wolf. I think it's Wolf. I don't think two wolves inside of you, Adam you Lauren, Lauren, Admiral Laaren. He's also the announcer. He's like, you gotta come back, and she's like, no, I can make it, and then people get fucking killed. His name is wolf You, Lauren.

32:08 Thank you, wolf Blitzer. No, it's not wolf Blitzer. It's wolf you Lauren. Okay, if you say so. So she they end up coming back just barely or able to get away mega, you know, and so she loses, she loses soldiers, and there's this real like sort of directness Romannequin and then you know, he's just like, you you need to follow the old orders, and she like calls him out. She's just like you don't, and he's like, that's that's exactly why. I know exactly how you feel. Yeah, I wrote down the line, did you train her to not follow orders? Yeah you did? Yeah, one hundred percent, yes, m h and yeah it's great.

32:54 But and then yeah, and then he's talking to her and says, you know, he's not like, he's not like an ass all about it, and like, well, yeah, like do as I say, you know, as I do. He's just like no, it's because yeah, I understand and sometimes these choices we make, they are the wrong choices. Also, it's irresponsible to put a paddle on in charge of a military operation. But also we're not at that point in the Clone Wars to be deconstructing that. Yet you're right, Asso, like, let's just go we text Let's just go textual, textual, not metotextual, nothing like that. Let's just go a textual, not extra textual, just straight bring in Aspen's favorite TV show, Ahsoka.

33:34 Yeah. Well yeah, and maybe this is maybe this is this, this assumes more context, but. Right here, just the art the Star Wars that we. Have seen up to now, there are not enough. They're not enough Jedi to lead like it. It's almost like you it has to be you know what I mean, Like the from what they have said or what we have seen, everyone is so distributed that that these paddle ones, these fourteen year old paddle ones, are military generals and commanders in and of itself. It's absolutely ridiculous. But if they talked about this in other episodes, where who was it plocoons apprentice plocon well not maybe not Plocoon but dumb oh the.

34:26 Bro no, but the guy who you know, Yeah, because this is in the Layer of grievous episode, right, yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah, yes, yes, that that little bro that and he's Calamart. Yeah, he's like, uh, systems kind of corrupt. We got to burn it down. And the presiding Master Jedi on there is like, we're not. Yeah yeah, I mean well this is why I think that any kind of conversation around like the the structure of the Jedi is is faulty and it and it is it truly is like it's not necessarily a structure to be to be looking at with and admiring, especially at this point possibly maybe never, you know, if we you know, if other pieces are to be believed, like like what is it to be this sort of peacekeeping yet cop like body it's almost like just be honest about what you are. But that's its own thing. That's its own thing. And I do feel like has a little bit of an over like starts to get a little bit thematically into the Star Trek episode as well, because there's oh surprise, so we also watched Star Trek.

35:49 We're not just Star Wars. We're not just a Star Wars podcast. There are tons this is Star Trek sound effect there we go. Did you you still have yeah in there? No? I don't you took off, do you? That's right? You took out yeah, my favorite effect. It was a great sound effect. But I think we need a lot more listeners in order to justify that extremely. Beats sound effect. What about woman? That'll be good personally? Personally? I'm I mean I swapped it out for a great sound clip. Oh is this be God? Damn it? Fuck?

36:30 Right right right right right, right, right right right. Because this is so weird horny. I know. I think he's so because the Star Wars films Star Wars up to this point is so sexless. And then when his horniness comes out in the worst ways. Nasty, nasty. I know. Listen, that's what happens when you suppress it comes out too weird. Speaking of suppressing information. There you go, beautiful. Did you just navigate back so that you could come up with your own segue? No? Just navigate Can you just trying to take my segue away from me? To navigate back to Star Wars so we could go back to Stark?

37:15 You're trying to take someone's agency away. We need to talk about Rayla, right, Na, Na, that's a commonality start with. Our whoa filled with women? Can you imagine if we were doing Star Trek, Star Wars and Batman and having to find the thematic commonality. Which Batman all of them got it. Yeah, every single piece of Batman that moves at twenty four frames a second. So like starting with the cereals, then going through every episode of the Batman TV show.

37:57 What are other frame rates? I mean starting on the Silent Year, it was manual frame rates. So because you're doing hand crank stuff, was. There Batman in the Silent Air? There was not Batman in the Silent Era, but there's stuff that like influenced Batman. And then other frame rates include forty eight frames per second, thirty frames per second, the most common one that you're watching through video. Soap operas are. Filmed at twenty nine ninety seven wow, forty eight frames which I think that's yeah, the Hobbit was shot at forty eight frames per second. You got one hundred and twenty frames per second, which I believe is what Billy Lynns long halftime walk and Jomini Man were shot at a whole bunch of frame rates.

38:45 Aspen, I thank you for telling me you're. Welcome and we were if Batman were to enter the fray. Yeah, and much like Batman is haunted by his past, so is this guy and this episode. Flinton I did it. Yeah, he has definitely danced with the devil in the Pale moonlight for sure. Probably he's lived. He was born in three thousand something BC. Yeah. Man, I think it's a good app too. I mean, I think it brings up a lot of complicated ideas that make me uncomfortable, and that's fine.

39:31 I think I think it is a thematically confused episode. I think that there are definitely versions of this episode that could be much much better. But the episode that I got I was pretty satisfied with. I mean, they're yeah, and there are episodes with similar themes that are just done poorly, So yeah, I will take it. I such as were the first thing, there's the what are Little Girls Made of? Right? Are the first which was pretty good. I don't know so I can quantitatively. Say, Kenny, this is not a good night for asmen's name memory. That was the one with Chapel's husband or Chapel's fiance doctor burb.

40:14 Oh god, yeah, well Christine, Christine, oh god, well, this episode I gotta tell you. I like, maybe I'm just a hey you looking at me so serious? Maybe I'm just a product of my current mystery box world, or also because I've been watching a lot of murder. She wrote, But I do think that like double reveal of the episode's really fun. I mean, it's kind of wild for you to be like so like Spock throughout the whole thing. This is not thematic. This is just kind of like fun stuff. It's just like Spock being like, so these are like Da Vinci's, except they're not because they're made with modern paint, and you're just like.

40:58 What he knows that just he's. Love that he looks at a painting and is able to be like clearly STUNCHI and. He's like playing Broms and he's like, no one knows, Okay, this is definitely Broms, even though what Brom's handwriting is like apparently, and he's just like, how do you know? But how do you know? That he just loves Do you think. That Spock hung out with other Vulcans. Other Volcans were like, you remember that. You're a dang little freak. Probably well, they were definitely calling him a freak. That's for sure. Yeah, according to the two thousand and nine movie. That's true. I think I probably do confuse too much of that, but it's a fabulous movie, So I'm okay with them. It's you could just pretty Yeah.

41:46 I gotta get that. I gotta get these movies. I gotta get all. The Star Trek movies on four k okay. The only Star Trek four case that I have are Strange New Worlds, which. Cupe Star Trek okay. Uh yeah. So there's a fun thing going thrown throughout the episode where He's just like, there's this stuff he's like trying to get character pay attention to, and Kirk's just like, not now, spuck, I'm in love. Very funny, and then so the reveal of it is just like Red and then the final reveal where they like go into that room and they like see more than one Rain and she's a robot. I was like, also, great combs up.

42:26 Apparently in my notes I wrote Rain, it's a bobit, she's a bulbit funny rob. She's yeah, I I yeah, that's I think those are fun reveals and they also have consequences. They're not just like dumb shit is thought there was just like oh this guy all along, it's there's now a reason for it. It leads to something. There's now a consequence to finding this out, which is violence, like your to be killed basically and everyone else too. But also the kind of origin of her and this idea of the concept of what it is. We're always coming back to the concept of what it is to be human, right, and ultimately you could live forever, you could learn everything there is ever to learn. But if you fall in love and then watch that love of your life die over these different people that you could love and have connection with that they die over and over again, like of course you'd be driven to say, well, what actually matters is connection and how can I seek that?

43:36 Now? It's a real creepiness. And the idea of it being like a little young lady, I mean, she's a robot, but still is something. There's something to be wondered about in the idea of the creation of a perfect woman, which speaking of a bodily agency, right, but that in and of itself is a complicated thing. We're going to set that aside, but we'll definitely come back to move. We're going to come back to it but I that kind of idea of what actually matters in human in humanity, and it is that companionship, it's connection, it is love, it is joy. You know, it's a second episode in a row where it's about a woman's agency.

44:18 Woman. Well happens a lot, I mean in this Yeah, happens a lot like in bad ways? Yeah? What? What was rolling around in my mind today? And doing research for directly Informacus a lot and the US listening to what well you. Yeah, yeah, doing research research, My gosh, thank you, oh my god, so cute, thank you, listening to. The vision Loog podcast and listening to what they have to say. And there This was before These Are the Wages was released, so they couldn't dig into it and learned that one of the notes from NBC was that they specifically requested women's stories, and what they interpreted as women's stories in nineteen sixty eight nineteen sixty nine were just more love stories because women aren't interested in anything else.

45:19 Who's to say, you know, who's to say? What's to say? Who's to say? Get a focus group of sismond to tell us. I surely don't know what do women like? Uh? What's the opposite of football. What's the opposite of beer? Oh? Oh, I can't research periods. They love periods. Can someone give me some wings. I'm gonna lose my mind again. That's me doing an impression of me. Great job, soldier.

46:04 How's the research group? Honey? Oh god, it's so hard. I had to think about what women like. Oh oh, honey, I'm so sorry. Do you need a. Foot rub or a sandwich or a blanket? Yes? Completely dumb? Your wife, you're so perfect. Oh, this is a good character. You just keep going youth. Oh great? Ye no, I mean I think you should take it on the road. Sure, I'll put that in my jfl audition.

46:46 Want the Gibson film. We're talking about this episode which bothers to have a character who apparently is the greatest. Man that has ever walked through the earth. Yea, And instead of kind of unpacking the existentialism within that becomes really what makes a woman a woman? Oh? I mean, I I agree, I do. I did take. By the end of it, I did take the I I took the like the existentialism of it became very strong. It was I think it was strong throughout and it was very clear by the end, but I I, yeah, there are different better ways it could have been done. Sure, I as always, we don't like the idea of just woman being reduced to whatever the tool is of. Yeah, great, men, you know it's a it's a bit it's a bit overdone, am I right?

47:49 It's weird. Boy, there's a whole bit of walking mechanics. But also I'm sitting here and I can think of a billion of complaints for this episode. But also, I sincerely just like it was a good episode and I'm trying to quant spy. That's that was part of it. The X factor is why why is this? Why is this a good episode? I think here's my guess. When I think it's written very well, I think it's paced extremely well. Yeah, I think everyone is having their own clear moments where they have strong feelings about those moments that are presented. They have strong emotions, and I think there's no downtime. There's always something happening, and there's space for exploration of ideas, even ideas it's Star Trek, I'm gonna kill you.

48:45 Sure I deserve it? Oh should have set up with it? Winks Dr Pepper rub Wing. No, they are bonus though, that's good. I mean, you get more wing like that. He's dumb. He's dumb, but also he's trying. The thing that I think makes this character and daring is that he's sincerely trying.

49:25 I don't he's. To do something poop men. Yeah's nothing to do with my meadak that sucker out? Hey Jack? Yeah? Boss, whoever take your miata out? And then you make the headlights blink? Yeah, like you have n't blink at each other. I have to blink out in morse code winks. Dude, me too, man except for me pepsi co hell yeah.

50:09 Oh. Now thinking about the call of wars, when will this? When will this forever war? And my dudes, so x factor of this for missus? I mean, I think I dare say you probably hit the nail on the head because the moments, the moments can seem quite desparate and unconnected. First starters, they're coming to the planet to look for right talent because there's an outbreak of Rigellian fever on this ship. That's right, And then they happen to. Find Flint, who turns out he's every greatest man that's ever been on Earth. And you think that the episode would unpack that more than it does. But before before that, they introduce you to Raina, who's a lady, but she's got a mystery.

51:10 Thank you Jesus Christ. But there's a mystery footing with Raina. Not only that, Kirk is immediately in love with her. Just into her in a second, so fast, so fast. This might be the fastest that Kirk has ever fallen head over heels for a woman before. I don't hate it. At this point, we're in such Kirk drift, like, yeah, it truly is. He is, Yes, I think I think at this point bro is just going for it, for it, so.

51:54 Yeah. So meanwhile, yeah, break up Brightellian fever still very much happening on the ship. It's very deadly. We've established in the beginning of the episode. Don't worry about it. Don't worry about it. I think the episode is moving with these other in the shell game that is this episode of Star Track. The shells are moving. The shells are moving so quickly that you're just like, yeah, because there's the mystery of Flint, there's the mystery of Raina. And whenever it. Gets sleepy, you can always go we got to get the right talent, which. We also have the M four thing. It does give them all something to do. It also funny.

52:37 Are tied together enough it feels cohesive. And I think it does have to do with the fact that it's like, if you're going to have our classic trio on this planet, that means Bones always has something to do. He's always worried, Okay, we got this right, talent done, but oh it turns out that like it's not going to work. We need to fix it. Great, so he's got opinions, he's got stuff. Spot is over here doing little mystery, plain a little piano, figure it out. Yeah. Outstanding line of this episode, which is I am close to experiencing an unexpected emotion. Oh my king king he oh, and he says envy. Oh there's that fabulous piece where then they first come down there, right, that's like during that exact scene where like, uh, Bones is like, hey, you want a brand. Of course he doesn't want a brandy blah blah, and he's like kind of like making fun of them and making fun of him, and Spot is like looking at the painting.

53:31 He's just like, thank you, doctor, I will have a brand. And it's funny and Spot is like, oh, we're gonna have to deal with a drunk, a drunk vulcan. I was like, I wish you would. I'd be rat I had a. Drunk vulcan as much like my father whenever he gets drung, just get quieter. Oh yeah, I guess it could go a few different ways. It could go quieter, you go a little violent, very scary, very strong, or you go very touchy, feeling very decided paradise and they're just like. Freaking I feel I never get never. You are my best friend. I love you so.

54:12 Much, Like do you ever think about her? My best friend? And to you, I love you so much, so much. Interview and I always I live along and prosper. Spock. That was my performance of Spock while drunk. Thank you gave me the roll. Yeah yeah, yeah. They've all got something to do that is driving them, and they're having reactions to everything. And then what is also interesting.

54:52 I circled this in my Big Notes Bob Bob and for the Bob above it, Flint the Eternal Man. Interrogates the notion of what Star Trek is. Oh yeah, yes, because is willing to do literally anything in order to get the right talent even use force. And Flint is like, you're claiming that you're. A peaceful people, but there's a contradiction because why does you ship have weapons? Why do you have weapons? Are you coming down here? I don't entirely trust you. You're just like all of the other humans. Yeah, yes, it doesn't. Really answer how they are better in this situation because again the episode is playing a shell game and keeping enough shells moving you don't necessarily have time to focus.

55:44 And again that's absolutely fine. It works in this case in that intangible X factor that it just it is loosely connected enough. But it's always it's always my favorite as I always love the interrogation enough of true, like the idea of are we as good as we. Are? Stating we are? And depending on which iteration of Star Trek you're watching, the answer can vary. With this Star Trek, Yeah, humans made it with Next Generation, Yeah, we made it with DS nine. We're good, but we have a ways to go with Rajor.

56:25 That's answered by Janeway killing Tubics Enterprise, they're still fighting everyone. Discovery vacillates. I had a thought, always thinking, always thinking, appere The subtle nogget is always going going. I know, I know sometimes I do more than like exist for the existential pleasure of some millennia man agains like poetry so they run. Yeah, I was wondering about my own personal vendetta against Star Trek actually being as good as it says it is.

57:15 Ooh, yes, let's have this conversation. You know, I'm constantly like, I'm this dude, I'm flint. I'm just like, but you go around this galaxy like and you're not just being diplomatic, You're coming in with a lot of cowboy power and you think you're so good. You're still a militaristic structure no matter what you say. Is a very personal thing. But here's a fun thing. Here's my personal context. I'm watching this in twenty twenty four, and I am like, I don't trust anything right now. Yeah, And it probably is why the stories of Star Wars just I think a lot of people watch Star Trek and they're like, this is the idea, and I can feel hopeful watching this thing, and I just don't think I feel like I can trust that. I'm like, okay, sounds great.

58:10 Like you know, Star Trek was caught up in that space race NASA optimism of the time, which is so which is so interesting. I mean I can't I literally cannot put my feet back in the sixties and see what that felt like. But it's in the pop culture that I consumed that reflects specifically the space race of the nineteen sixties. Very rarely does it feel like anyone that is working within NASA and within the space industry is like, we are taking we are wasting a lot of resources to send a man to the Moon, because they wasted so much of it. But rarely does it rarely doesn't interrogate that because it was for a greater mission, which was well to defeat the Soviets, but also to prove that we could do it is wild, that's a wild notion.

59:10 Yeah, so we can just do it and feels so if I say like that it's purposeless. It feels purposeless. No, But even he's talking about it like bad, I'm like, oh, that is so. I know, defeat the Soviets, but there's there was so much hope, there's so much excitement around that. I will tell you depends on who depends on who you ask. Well, that's just depends on who you ask, because. In in the Damon Chaseelle Neil Armstrong movie First Man starring Ryan Gosling. That was the first time where I was like, oh my bro, did people not like going to the Moon? And there's a song in it called Whitey on the Moon. Oh, kind of emblematic.

59:50 I know that song. And then there's yes, dude, yes, bro, oh song from some. Humorous about Warrener Bron Brown and the fact that they're partnering with it Nazi, with an actual Nazi in order to make the rocket program work. But whatever, we were able to do it. Kenny, isn't that that. Paradox the Star Trek where you're just like, don't, don't, don't look at all this stuff, look at look look at what. We can be? Oh my god, Kenny, I mean, and. The Star Wars informed by the post Nixonian post Vietnam distrust of governments current Vietnam.

1:00:30 Oh, you're right, post at that point, but people living through it, yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah, post. And so baked into the baked into the tax. Yes, is regardless of who is who is America in this situation? Who is who is Vietnam? Who are who's the opposition to America? There's just a distrust of governmental authority. And we have some rebels, but we know the hierarchy of the empire, Emperor Darth Vader Grahama Targan hierarchy, and then. The rebels don't really have a hierarchy that we know.

1:01:12 You know that there's some loose generals out there, but everyone's just trying to fight the aggressors, which is the ruling government. Yep. Yeah, it's a indicative of a current system that was a previous system that is just in a constant cycle of as we have said, mulled the world times neoliberalism and fascism, neoliberalismto fascism. And then you can couple that with where Lucas and ron Berry were coming from. Lucas who went to film school and wanted to make genuine art films, non narrative tone poems. He's an artist that just backed his way into narrative filmmaking, and so more than likely he's going to have some strong political opinions that are anti authoritarian, especially considering that he was partnered up with Francis word Gobola, who throughout the seventies and eighties was just like, fuck the studios, studios are awful. We could do it ourselves.

1:02:11 And George Lucas, acolyte of Francis, word was like, wow, Francis. Can do anything. Yeah, you sure can make a mine. Coupled that way with Roden Berry, who before was that's right, he was a jigglo. His original name was jiggolow Rod and Berry was he was an Air Force pilot and he was a cop. Right, you've told me this. I blocked it out and so baked. Into the Texas Star Trek is an appreciation of rank structure and a fondness for military structure because that's the world.

1:02:52 And so you have someone that is fond of systems, is trying to build a perfect system. Well right, fund fond of systems enough that benefit himself rather because like Lucas, he's also anti studio. Kenny, help me work through this thought process. Sure, man, this is great. This is a great discussion. I love this. I really appreciate you bringing up the inherent injustice of putting so many resources toward the space race when there are so many people who are like you could be putting those resources toward healthcare.

1:03:40 That money could have helped healthcare. Yeah, but in sixty nine you're right, it was actually it was actually about it was about American exceptionalism, and it was paired with the concept and the idea of space, and it was inextricable from the space raised this idea of. Winning right and only American exceptionalism. But America was so great that it created an indelible moment in history that transcended every nation where everyone in the world stopped. Yes. And it wasn't just an exception. It wasn't just American exceptionalism for a brief moment, it was human exceptionalism. And who was in charge of the human exceptionalism? America proof positive that America is the best. Because America did it, we created this moment that proves how great humanity is.

1:04:35 So that that is I think what this concept is that we're talking about this thing that is literally beyond our world, otherworldly. It is more than just the United States inostensibly ostensibly because it is saying to the whole world, look at what you know we can do. And I think read Contact. I watched Contact, but I from hearing what the book was like with Sagan, A lot of what it's talking about is many people from across countries coming together and working together it wasn't just say they wasn't just one person or just a few Americans. And I do think that there is inherent to it, like I do not think that it is not true that there is this idea of we could be more than just ourselves and yet and yet it is still driven by but it's the United States that doesn't it. And that's the paradox. That's the paradox.

1:05:35 And so we can be anything. And he's driven as pass and hopefully future guest Jesse Earl said, filtered through the lens of Eurocentrism, Western h West Central Yes, West Centrism. Yes, as we've talked in previous episodes. So redouting a Jewish Canadian as the archetype of an. American, I do wonder if I it just does not ring true to me. So I feel this like grading sensation. And here's the difference, because I mean, obviously I'm biased for Star Trek. Star Trek has been there before I was able to form memories. That's how long Star Trek has been around. That in Star Wars intertwined, both of those suckers get intertwined. I don't remember a first time watching either because both were in circulation in my household when I was a young baby, young fighting. If you will it come fresh out of the oven? Is then right next to a VCR impressed play. That's how yeah, that's how fresh.

1:06:42 It was cute. But for some reason, and maybe it's because, quite frankly, I was a very sad child. I was a very sad child, and I was a very lonely child. Esthetically, there was something way more interesting about Star Trek to me whenever I was in elementary school, and then whenever I was a teenager i went through I was more of a Star Wars kid, and then as I've gotten older, I've gotten way way more into Star Trek over Star Wars. But there's always been something that has appealed to me with this notion of an impossible utopian and a valid criticism of Star Trek, which is I cannot connect with this, or rather, to put it in your term, something greats inauthentic about it, because there's something that because.

1:07:40 Humans just made it, how'd they make it? What does that look like? How do they not have money? What does the governmental structure look like? What are all of these ins and outs questions as opposed to the thing that appeals to me. The propaganda of Star Trek, I think, which. Is they just did it. Well, the propaganda star checks they just did it. And then DS nine gets to come in and answer some of those questions as very valid questions and say, with a lot of fucking bloodshed and hard work, yeah, a lot of people suffering. Yeah, what what coused utopia?

1:08:23 Yeah? And but like the optimism, especially in Next Generation where Picard can literally talk with anything and deflate a conflict. God imagine, come on, Oh that's wild to me. And then Star Trek grew back into a more action oriented thing because everyone was trying to get more into the original series, and Next Generation was known as kind of a sleepier show, even though I think everyone considers Next Generation be the better show because it has a more sophisticated palette to work from from the late eighties and early nineties. But also they do sit around a table a lot.

1:09:06 Cool. So the Star Wars Star Wars Bothers two with the prequels ask how the heck did this happen? Mm hmm, well really with Return of the Jedi asks how did this world happen? Right? Does galaxy happen? What? What? God? Is to this moment you can't trust authority and what is your soul going to be in a system that you belong to? Uh huh, yeah, dude, Which Star Wars is in that regard more realistic?

1:09:47 Mm hmmm. I mean that's you're a little bit more honest about it, I think I and I think that that was my bad segue of the I can't even remember we're talking about when we're talking about Storm versus Storm over like with like the point of Storm over Ryloth and that sort of commonality and that piece there. There is something kind of wild about Storm over Ryloth and this I'm glad that we got to see Ahsoka sitting with this horror, but there is also still this kind of terror of war, this this additional horror of war, which is like, hey, you know this sucks. You lost your squadron. That's part of being a leader. And it was like, right, like the idea that like that's just the game man, people are gonna die is just part of what it is to be in the little middle of a literal war, right, And that is part of it.

1:10:52 Is just like human lives are worth for the greater good of the thing, right, and that is a real barbarism of humanity or you know, whatever that might look like to be able to get to what you say, is this ideal? But still to get to that point, right, and who who are we and especially the Jedi going from peacekeepers to like so easily slipping into the role of literal commanders, you know, war commanders. Both shows. Shoot, I mean, the commonality is that both are about both the involved some form of imperialism m hm. Where the Clone Wars I mean, both of them are, whereas Star Trek posits that it is a benevolent form of imperialism now that comes very close to breaking breaking their own code within Reque up from etheusla.

1:11:50 As. With all the information that we've learned from Star Wars and up to this point in Clone Wars, we know that the that the Jedi and the Clones are carrying out in imperialism. The carying out an imperialism. Through the guise of liberation, right, which can feel false and you're grading against it, which is also one of the poetic things about the Clone Wars. Unfortunately unfortunately anyway, what a time am I? Right? Four? Election?

1:12:31 Go vote? Do you vote yet? No? I have not go vote. I'll probably vote on Friday. Yeah, you go vote, my dude. Yeah, man, But speaking of voting, yeah, but what do you want? A long time ago? Start dating? This week? I quoted a vote, I dated a game. But none of them could warp my drive into high birth space. The best of both worlds kept me in the second place. Captain's log on a hollow kron.

1:13:18 I wanted a song. I penned a song. Seventeen more minutes advise in super high def aboard the USS Enterprise DT. Don't you take my walk lighter and clip it? Don't you take my wretchirt buddy and nip it. If you spill the tea, I'm gonna sip it. My starship it. What we doing this week? We're going to name our favorite ships that fly through this guy and our favorite ships that goss.

1:14:00 Mhm, Kenny, yeah, Boss Kenny. Have we named the Pnemodian Battleship? We sure have not, the Trade Federation, the. Trade Federation Battleship, the Donut Ship, the one that a different one, but another one that Anagin destroyed when he tried spinning. That was a good trick. That was a good trick. But in this case Anakin destroys it by just shoving shoving the Defender ride into Now, okay, so. Let's bring up our friends at I'll say it, our sister podcast, the hold Maneuver speaking, but particularly the podcast's title sake, the titular Holdo Maneuver with those dorks on the line that are like Star Wars as the Star Wars anymore. Well, one of their biggest criticisms that the whole novenuver breaks camp shut up why by saying who would throw? Who is show a big ship through another big ship? Meanwhile, you're precious Dave Faloni.

1:15:16 Well, your precious Anakin Skywalker is the one who did it. Sure, but you're precious Dave Faloni directed it. Do they really sorry? Do those assholes really love Dave Filoni? I just want to Oh yeah, okay, oh yes, all right, yes. Well they didn't like him when he made a Soka matter, so now they like him. Like with anything, you give it ten years and people look back on it with fondness. Sure, and that's the arc of the clone Wars has gone from no one wanted this too, This might actually be the this is actually the best Star Wars period. Sure, thanks to our god king Dave Filoni, who you know, he's doing a great job here. Yeah. Yeah.

1:16:03 And also if you're if you're bothering to cherry pick cannon, Yes, he looked no further than the fact that Anakin skywalker throws a big honkin ship into a bigger honking chip throws. A ship into another ship. We'll seem pretty expensive waste of resources. I'm sorry to use such harsh language, but I disagree strongly. We're gonna have to bleep you for a second. Here, ella, here, I'll do it for you. Fuck you. Toss a lot of them bozos, am I right? Real, real little weird guys, guys, weird guys, and.

1:16:45 They are making no mistake they're weird guys. Yeah, he throws a god damn ship into another ship, and it's so great. Pulling pulling what I called in my notes the slow down, my neighbor. You know what am I like favorite things too to see is when characters yeah nice, see nice, Yeah, it's cute. What was they gonna say? Oh? You know, when people are like like on holograms, like talking to each other, but they're on other ships and the ships are getting blown out of the sky. And they just like the hologram like what they'll disappear and they're.

1:17:29 Just like, ah, it's just like sizzles out. I love that it happens when so we didn't even talk about that. It's this battleship is being headed by Martuk, who is an Emodium Separatus commander, and when he realizes what's happening, he is like, I'm out of here. It's all these battle droids are like regie REDI Mar Tuck. Where thanks to the fo we have a dream of a quote regarding Martuk, who has the lips of who has quote unquote yes, Mick Jagger Donald Rumsfeld. Mouth incredible, Wow, yeah you know who said that.

1:18:13 He We like to make sure that he has a Nick Jagger Donald Drumsfeld type. Of I spent a long night that night doing a bit of a redo. A soft spoken, sweet man, he was unhappy with the designs. That's his sweet way of being like, So the designs were absolutely horrible, absolutely terrible, and I had to do so much work that night. My wife was angry, my children hate me, just so I could make this Donald Rumsfeld mouth. The other pieces that mar took is named after Dave Philanie's cat also a joy of the thing.

1:18:58 Originally, I wanted a whole plan to be my cat. I wish. With the planet that was made of cats. We have to work on fur textures. What would fur look like whenever it is miles across? How does it move in space with no What does fur look like without friction in space? Does it have the mass that it does? What does it look like whenever adjusting to gravity? And then and then Dark said, you misunderstood me. I said, I have two cats, which I responded by going, I just spent ninety six hours on this.

1:19:38 I haven't slept, I haven't seen my wife. You couldn't have just you've been here three other times for approvals. Wow, Killian sounds like you're having a bad day. Unquestionably, this is the real is the real show. We're doing a lot. We're doing a lot of character work. My favorite ship this is David Kill is David Killing. My favorite ship is a Silka Starfighter prefosh. I wrote down, is this Anakin's old Starfighter? Because I believe it has the same colors that Anakin's Starfighter did in the two D clone Wars.

1:20:19 I don't know. I would love that well, love if that. Were the case. No, it's it's not. It's red, okay, which I believe that's the color of no Anakin's why am I saying that it's Anakin Starfighter? No, these are obi Wan's collars because it's red. Oh cute, which is fascinating. I say that it's Anakin Starfighter because it's clearly not to seven B either sprite. Oh cute said cute a lot, because everything's so cute. You're mostly cute. You know, this is a this is a like not the winner, But I do want to call out also the Resolute, the other ship that they do the ship on its side trick and all the start, all the fighters come out from behind it. They like make it look they bring them in and like making them think that like, oh the ship is not doing like it's it's it's vulnerable and then they go worth noting just because in the following zone they talk about he talks about how he read about that as a maneuvers Frond does in Air to the Empire, and I just thought that was so cool.

1:21:33 That's great, wonderful Air to the Empire, great book. I we know it's not, but it's a cool idea. And it's well, all those torps online that don't like the Holbot maneuver and they're like, the empire is so sick, right, a badass? Yeah? And then sure, bads, here are all these similar these ideas that are common, common ideas. Anyways, romantic romantic. Ships, romantic shifts, Aspen, you better not steal my ship this week. I don't think I know what your ship is. Well, don't steal it. I'm gonna go. I'm gonna go the straightforward one, man, I'm gonna go. Raina Kirk.

1:22:18 A classic in sense that this episode. It is in this episode, I mean, it's a pretty boring one. However, he kept hugging her and holding her clothes, and it was very gentle and very sweet, fascinating, I don't know, fascinating, fascinating. I mean again, we touched on it. There is always this underlying thing where, especially when this woman is represented as being kind of young, there's like this new bile element, like in this space, she's very smart, and she clearly feels like the ward of someone and maybe younger.

1:23:00 Right, And just to make me sound smart, the born Sexy Yesterday trope. Yeah, that's it, and like, but you know, this this one of those. This is one of those where like I thought the actor playing her was really fabulous. So many times these are big honk and wig yeah her big honk and wigz honking. So many times it is saved by I think, like usually usually a good lace front will do it for you, you know, like this kind of it's such a creepy kind of utterly thing of like she's a robit, so it's like, what does it look like to awaken these like feelings? But she does have this like beautiful, kind of bewildering look to her face. I don't know, Maybe I just thought that she was very well like kind of is like curious about the entire world and this like gentleness and yeah, it's it's got its gross elements and its gross feelings, but I thought that she is I think she like sold it for me, and I you know, I think Kirk in love is a very charming thing. He is very gentle. So you know, no, hated, you did not.

1:24:15 Steal my ship. Thank goodness, my ship for the week, and it's pretty up. I'll give you three guesses of who my ship who my ship is for the week, and we got two episodes to work from. Okay, all right, right, could be anyone, could be anything. We've already done that. We've done that, we've done that. We have so many people we can look at, we can look at what's his name, Finch, Flinch, Flint, Flint in his other Rubt. Flint in his other rob. You got it on the first try. My ship is Flint and M four. You know, you know when M f gets destroyed and for is back and better than ever, it's like no time has passed.

1:25:12 And you bet, you bet as soon as Flint could build a robot, built that M four and built that M four to last. You know what I mean? You know what I mean, Christ, Oh my gosh. Not just. M four is a body but just removed, just kind of deconstructed. He's just he's just a sphere. He's just a sphere boy, Yeah. Which I mean for boys, for for folks with penie, it's all you need. You just need a sphere.

1:25:53 Actually, the plural of penis in Latin is actually pain. As for folks with pain it is you just need a cylinder as isolate. That makes and like run a promoter, run a promotional campaign to get listeners with that one. Nisyne's it has the third declension now. Also the name of the female lead in the forest Cump porn parody worst Hump Pennies penn. Oh God, I think you and I came in. Hop forest top and so a lot just kept humping.

1:26:40 It's not cute anymore, not cute, not cute. I think we did it. I think we did it. In the MP goes on the spreadsheet. Ye, outstanding, It's not a Hey, let's give Kenny compliments for his outstanding ship. Pork No, no, no, no, we must go back to the original conceit, the central conceit of this podcast. I'm trying to answer the most important question and fandom, which is better Star Trek for Star Wars again the episodes that we are pitting against each other as wrectly and from Methusla or Star Trek the original series versus a Storm of a Ryeloth from Star Wars. The Clone Wars. I will go first with Wrecly and from Methusa. I'm feeling charitable today. I'll give it a six point five.

1:27:29 Hmmm. I'm going to give it the most solid of sevens. Hell yeah, you do love to see it, you know, no, I want to give it a seven to Okay, Okay, I really did. Want to give it a seven, but for some reason I was talking myself down from it. But it feels like a seven. Yes, it's a really good episode. I really enjoyed myself. Good performances, good ideas, fun, fun things to talk about, fun things to them all over. James Daily as Flint is a great performance.

1:28:10 Man, I'm telling you. Guest performances in Star Treker were like banger oops, all bangers, like they often save an episode for me. I wonder that's part of it if this episode didn't have such strong supporting actors. And also yeah, honestly, yeah, that could be the expector too. In the central conceit that which bumps up against rotten barriers, humanity, rodden berrious humanist vision of all the things were achieved by humans and instead went to that kind of chariot of the gods thing where it was all kind of achieved by aliens or this uh extra worldly thing, and instead a lot of the great men of the world were actually this one guy. Kind of it robs power of the human propaganda that Star Trek. But the episode still works even with me fundamentally disagreeing that I don't want this episode to exist. Yeah, Yeah, that's how good of an episode it is.

1:29:10 Well, I propose that it's okay that one guy was all the other guys because there have been so many other extraordinary people throughout history, many of them not just some fucking white dude. So how dare you rally against Roddenberry's humanist propaganda? But it's still anyone's game. As we pop over to storm over rya loth where I'm going to give this one. Yeah, I'm feeling it an eight. Eight. This was a superb episode, one of the probably one of the best pieces of Star Wars that I've watched since the two D clone Wars, and might even be better.

1:29:53 Yeah, it is, just it is a really fun, unexpected and intelligent episode of Star Wars, anchored by a really strong premise. And also good performances. Yeah, the plot takes a backseat, which has been kind of rare for Star Wars for a while, and I really enjoyed that to focus on characters and emotions. It's very much needed and it is very enjoyed on my part. That's why I give it an eight. I'm going to give it a little bit higher. I'm going to give it an eight point three. Hell yeah, you do love to see it? Hello, my girl. Interesting because I gave Defenders a piece of nine, but I'm giving this one an eight. And I think this episode is better. But it doesn't matter because the numbers don't lie, which means directly from Metzusla has a paltry seven versus storm over Rylos eight point one p. Five, which means.

1:30:48 Aspen, I'm the winner, baby, truly, We're all winners. That's That's exactly That's exactly what I was going to say, because I feel like it's been. It's been pretty weak sauce for a while, and it is. It is nice, like a like an oasis in the desert, to have two great episodes as opposed to one really good episode in one episode where we are just kind of trying to very much like anakin of the volcano pit on Mustafar, crawling ourselves up with a robot hand.

1:31:40 But you know who doesn't hate us, our patrons, Oh, I think you. For five dollars a month, you can get early versions of these episodes, as well as extended versions of these episodes. And for one dollar a month, we will just say your name on the air, and every single pet helps helps to pay the bills, so we get to come out net positive, which is pretty darn cool. I like that, and you too could join the fine Auspices and fine faults such as Tim Body, Sosa, Heidi Rogers, Kevin Miller, Arizona, Mark Austin, Aaron Joel t partner in newest contributor bow Bab Cactus who found us through the Jesse Earl episodes. Let that be your last battlefield versus trespass. So, bow Bab Cactus, we welcome you.

1:32:27 Thank you for so much for being a patron. Huge shout out to you. We we love you. Yay, nothing great, thank you. No, I was just thinking I was just like, oh gosh, so soon to say I love you. No. Overwhelmed Then no, because bab Bab Cactus, as a member of the human race, you inherently have value and you are deserving of love. If it is not love from a person, that it is loved from a universe, because you are here and you deserve love. All right, So. Cactus, me and Aspen love you. Speaking of people that Aspen loves partner along with being a patron, is also our composer of the I Starship At theme song. Our main and any theme song was composed by mister toastin Alifeso. Please visit the show notes in order to get more of his delicious, delectable musical licks.

1:33:22 If you want to get into in contact with us in a way that's not just signing up for Patreon, why don't you send us an email just like Austin Aaron did at the beginning of the episode. An email at trak Warspod at gmail dot com, or reach out to us via Instagram or Blue Sky Handles at trek Wars Pod. Uh anything else. Aspen No, No, Aspen, yeah, Aspen what? I love you so much? I love you. I'm glad you. I'm glad you weren't like, actually tired of me. No. I I don't think I could ever get tired because we love you. May the force me with you and let walking prosper