Hostage Crisis v. The Savage Curtain

0:29 Welcome to the Trek Wars Podcast, the one podcast that dares to answer the most important question in fandom, which is better Star Trek or Star Wars by going through both franchises in chronological release order. I am Kenny Madison, the Star Trek contingent and with me Esper always as the co host, with my hosts. Aspin Webster Star Wars fan uh. And today we are raising the curtain, the Savage curtain that is, and taking again there at the hostage crisis that works in the backstages of the Senate. That's right, we're talking about the Savage Curtain from Star Trek the original series season three. First this Hostage Crisis, the final episode, the final aired episode of Star Wars the Clone Wars season one. And I, for one, unlike my co host, am very excited to talk about these episodes.

1:15 What you don't know that you don't know? I'm not excited. Hey, hey, look at me like that. You don't know me. You don't know me, I don't know. I'm just saying you didn't say that you were excited beginning. Kenny, I am always excited to talk to you. I always enjoy our time. I'm always excited to talk to you. I could hate something, I could hate it, I I approved it. I could hate it and I'd still I'd still have fun talking to you. Oh. I mean, we haven't watched a fair amount of things where we're just like, oh. Boy, I've watched a lot of things. I fucking hate boy. But I never hate you. You hear me, Yes, I'll never hate you. You are enough.

1:59 Thank you. Yeah, you're valuable even when you're wrong. Speaking of your valuable whenever you're wrong, Aspen, Before we get onto the main concept of the podcast or trying to figure out which is better Star Wars a Star Trek, you have altered a very large conceit for the podcast. You see a lot of a lot of the podcast is predicated on I haven't seen a lot of Star Wars, and Aspen hasn't seen a lot of Star Trek. I think that's still kind of true. Mostly, but you embarked on a pretty important journey for a good reason. I will say, Aspen, what have you started this week? Okay, Well, just a reminder to everybody I have watched.

2:41 In terms of what I've watched in Star Trek, I watched almost all of the US and I had watched at least all of season one before, even if I didn't remember, it just remindered everyone. I have at this point watched all of Lower Decks, Prodigy, Strange in Your Worlds. I've watched all of DS nine, and I'm pretty sure most, if not all, a Voyager, maybe like I'm missing someone in the last season. So what's left on the deck is Enterprise? Is Bicard Discovery Short Treks the animated series, Yeah, I. Haven't seen it. And Next Generation a big old boy, although I have seen just like scattered episodes just being a child of the nineties and I know all those characters and I know everything about them, and there's like an osmosis thing. However, I did get a text from a fellow I proviser and he was like, Hey, do you want to be in a Star Trek Next Generation show?

3:41 And I was like, I want to tell you a true fact about me, which is that I actually know a shit tone about Star Trek and this is my literal blind spot. So to be a good performer and you'd be a good teammate, I have to watch some Next Gen to at least make sure that I'm in the same realm of things that we have spoken sense, and he apparently they are inspired a lot by obviously all other types of tracks, like definitely like the. Run. Yeah, like I having now watched like so so Joel the Sweet Partner, Jowel, thank you so much. There's just so much. I'll communicate your clapping. He loves Next Gen.

4:27 So he automatically was just like, I'm gonna curate episodes and then you sent me a list that was like you cannot watch these episodes and he was like, fine, that's fine, I'll figure it out. Oh, they didn't overlap, only like one Dad, which one I don't remember? I don't I don't know. Okay, I don't know, man, I don't know. I don't know. We've been skipping around too, we've been going like different seasons and shit. But I think it's like he's been going kind of based on characters and vibe. So it's like, do you want to know more? Like what would you like to watch the episodes focused on the Guard? Would you like to watch some things focused on Deanna Troy, things like that they now know the whole fucking Tasha ship. He like showed me the episode. I guess spoilers for people. He literally showed me, wish I can't read it. Command chain of Command. No, the Kardassians, I haven't watched. I haven't watched Cardassians. No, I think you might have told me I watched this one.

5:31 What is this say? Redemption? Yes? Is that the like the two parter, like the two be continued to cross seasons? Yeah? Yes, because starting in season three. Oh maybe not then yeah, wait we it's it's like, I don't know, I watched it. It's where it's where Wharf gets his Oh okay, yeah he gets his. Yeah, it's hot. The Cling on Civil Warps. Yeah, the Clean Clean. We watched The Clean on Civil Warps, which is very funny to watch, having like watched DS nine and knowing like ultimately what happens. There's like so much like having watched S nine and Voyager that I'm like, we watched we watched like Across the Board, Like we watched the episode where with Rikers with like the copy of him made like that episode Second Change Chances, which fucked me up because I knew, I knew that there was a literal copy of him that existed out there Tom because of Days Night. So I'm like, it's none of this is new to me, but watching it, I love it like I love it.

6:38 It's it's I love it whenever, I mean whenever you get into the rhythm of it. Starting in season three. Yeah, I am oh. I am noticing watched one from season one. Everything else has been to the season three. Four and then as aspen, whenever you find out, like the behind the scenes stuff you were going to be like, it is a miracle that this show was good. Period, Yike Sarony. Like we already talk about the fact that TV production is a miracle in and onto of itself. None of this should be a good period because television is possibly the hardest thing to do. At least doctors save lives. Meanwhile, people are working seventy television.

7:24 Yes, hardest job you can most important job you can possibly down well the entire world, like you. Put in well, let me talk about in William Shatner's The Captain's documentary, like Kate all all the main actors, like some version of their lives fell apart due to television production because they were working fourteen, sixteen hours a day hopefully five days minimum. Kate Malker was like, uh my marriage fell apart because she was working on Star Volager the entire time, and then you find out like the behind the scenes stuff of Next Generation, Yeah at the especially during the first three years, and you're just going to be like, Okay, my god, I hope that the for people that are listening to the audio version, I hope that the headphone Joscelyn came across in the audio mix because like.

8:20 A little wiggle, like a little wiggle, a little wiggle. Yeah, shit, Well I'm excited. I do want to say one other thing, yes, yeah, little wiggle. It'll tell me some of the episodes that you watch outside the second Chances, and then we will get to the last thing that you want to say, unless you want to say more. I can talk about this all the time. I'm so redemption, Redemption. Oh my god. I'm sorry. I should have been like writing them down. We watched the one with Wesley with the where there's an accident at the academy, and. The First Duty what okay, where you meet Nicole Carno. Yeah, with not Tom Paris. That one really also messed me up. There's a lot of episodes that just like make me deeply sad. Yeah, because By the way, I have no problem with teenagers in shows. I think Wesley seems great. I don't care. He's great because he's sincere and authentic.

9:16 Also, like he rules in Prodigy season two. Oh that's the other thing, is I am like so good? Probably you can't spoil anything for me because I know what happens to Wesley in the future because of Prodigy. Which if you watch that episode, the episode is called Journey's End. You're allowed to watch that episode. Okay, devastating episode. It may actually make you furious. Okay, Well, I watched The Doctor's Holiday, Fantastic, Captain's Holiday, Captains Holiday. Oh, you're right, sorry, Captain's Holiday Hot. Hot hot? What if an actor was attractive? Oh my god, he's like. It's funny because I've been like, yeah, of course, Patty Stew's is like and then I watch that and I was like, oh, he's fit, man, look at that dude, he's fit.

10:06 And then you can and then you mix it up with Cards Constitution at that point, which is kind of a grumpasaur. Yeah, and you're like, uh oh, he's enjoying himself. Uh uh oh, Yeah, he was really grumpy in that one. Booby Trap, which is a Geordie focused episode. We also, yeah, also watched was it Tapestry and what's the one or Yeah? That one also devastated me and made me cry. Yeah. Basically, it's like we were doing kind of like focus on different characters, so like giving like like. Diana Troy, No there's Crusher episode. Not yet, we haven't done Crusher yet. It's like, yeah, I'm sure, Like because Deanna Troy, I would say Second Chances has is a little very Deana Troy. It's Troy and Riker focus. But then there was another one that they were like negotiating this wormhole wild by the way, because I'm like they're like it's it's a wormholes to the Gamma QUADRT and I'm like that wormhole is not gonna work because i know because I've seen DS nine and that one. It's like very much about her and she meets like a guy who's like a part part like Corner Betazoid, which is really funny because when he first showed up, he like looked through these big, bright, scary blue eyes because people with like eyes that color blue should not look at you. And I was like, what is he like part betas way, but he can't be his eyes aren't like dark, it's they're fucking scary.

11:32 And then he was ha ha ha. I didn't like that man. I didn't like that man at all. Anyway, we just watched the scattering of episodes, and Joel most certainly wants to watch even more with me. Oh yeah, we watched the one where Atasha dies also made me cry, devastating cried. I was like, I don't even know this woman, and I'm crying controllabae. I mean, oh yeah, because first season episode, because you basically wanted to show me spoilers for everybody like this sort of like progression. Because we also saw the episode where it was like then there is. Because I saw Redemption too, Yeah, and. Yes is that one because it was like Redemption the two parter, and then also the one that's like where how that one gets sent back in time basically Howard, like you.

12:18 Know Yesterday's Enterprise. Yeah, we watched Yesterday's Enterprise, which was a fabulous episode. I was like, this is so cool. I love that kind of a masterpiece, like it is a masterpiece. Yeah. So anyway, for people I don't, I don't. I'm sorry if I'm spoiling anything. I just have to say, Next Gen is fire. Yeah. So and then you think about I mean, we'll get into this, yeah, like not necessary maybe next year, probably next year. Yeah, but like that, that show was pulling in like huge numbers. And it's a syndicated TV show. Yeah, there, and syndicated TV shows just didn't pull in the kind of numbers that Next Generation did. Is a four quadrant hit, yeah, and it's just it's wild, it's wild, great.

13:10 Well, vibes are. Good, Vibes are oh. A, vibes are good. Oh and oh that's something. This is what I want to say before we get into our current week's episodes. I don't find Picard to be so different from Shatner, from Kirk Hasen. Yeah, it'll make more sense whenever you watched the first season. Sure, yeah, okay, I just I guess because when I think of Kirk, I think they're like, we get into we've gotten into this third season where he does do a lot of having sex with women and kissing a lot of people, and that's great and he but I think having gone through all this systematically, I've been like season one, Kirk is by the rules, by the book, he loosens up, gets a little bit more adventurous. I still think that he like and when it comes to being like focused on like being like, I don't think he's not diplomatic. And also I don't think Bicard is not action focused, like you know what I mean. I think that they are sort of a blend of like And I've seen Picard get really angry like being you know, especially like for Angie.

14:22 No you haven't seen Starcark first contact yet? Great, and don't, Okay, I won't, I guess, And maybe I'm being reductive about it, but I just I just heard all my life that it's just like Kirk is the adventure captain of Picard is the serious diplomatic captain. I think it's more emblematic of TOS versus TG debate because TOS is a much more action forward show, sure in comparison, and Next Generation is not afraid to put its characters around the table and talk a while and then to like talk their way out of a situation. And there's a whole heck of a lot more technobabble next. Yeah, there's a lot of shit happening that I'm like, what the fuck is there. Yeah, Like, do I have to do that? Yes? The answer is yes, I'm so bad.

15:08 At Sometimes sometimes you have to reroute taking ons and get them projected through the deflector field in order to create a static warp bubble that can somehow jostle us out of this wormhole. Wow, let's reverse the polarity. Yep, Wellt's speak of university the polari itself. Why don't we make it so we talk about these two episodes once again. The Savage curt from Star Trek the original series, season three versus the final episode of season one, if Star Wars the Clone Wars hotsg Crisis, H and I will go ahead and start with The Savage Curtain, aired March seventh, nineteen sixty nine. Director Herschel Daugherty, writer, story by Gene Roddenberry, Teleplay by Gene Roddenberry and Arthur Heinemann.

15:51 From an NBC press release. Captain Kirk and mister Spock are forced to fight for survival with reincarnations of the most evil representatives from history in the Savage Curtain on NBC Television Networks Star Trek Friday, March seventh. An alien culture attempts to learn of good and evil through a battle to the death between forces of both sides. Kirk and Spock are given help by historical figures Abraham Lincoln and Surak a Vulcan in their fight against four evil ones. If they lose, they will die along with the entire crew of the Enterprise. Asked if you can wake up real quick? Oh, sorry, just real quick. As soon as I saw Abraham Lincoln, I was like, we're gonna have something special.

16:35 And then I was like, no, we're not. We're gonna have gamesters of tricks, Elian and everything else I've ever seen ever in this show. And that Dares asked the question, what is the creator of Star Trek wanted to go to lunch early. As soon as I also saw that Gene Rodenberry wrote it, I was like, is this gonna be something like it's like somebody's been holding on to for a while and it's like finally I'm gonna get my stuff out there or something. And then I was like, oh no, it's just end of season three, end of the show. Just pull in whatever scripts you had lying around Alas and a lack you know, it didn't it didn't actually strike me that they were reincarnations that actually kind of makes it a lot more horrific.

17:20 I was just like, I don't know, horrific. What about a hostage What about a hostage crisis in the Senate? It is really horrific. It is actually the stakes on this one are so high, So high. Hostage Crisis I released March twenty, two thousand and nine. In this case, the episode was directed by gian Carlo Vope. The coolest name I've ever heard, excuse me, and except for Kendall Madison, except for this other name that I'm not gonna pronounce right because I think it's Irish ohen yo yo yog in mahoney, mahoney, yogin mahoney. I think is probably a better way to pronounce that name. It's fine. I should have I should have studied first. And the plot, Cad Baine has gathered a team of his fellow bounty hunters to see his control of the Senate building. The plan is to exchange the hostages therein for the freedom of crime Lord Zero the Hut you remember him with his weird little Truman capode coded accent. Anakin Skywalker is the sole Jedi left in the building. Unfortunately, he has left his lightsaber in Sanator rah Medella's possession. Sure did that, little motherfucker? Oh weirdo, why do you do that? He's just being such a dumb dumb you know. Sometimes he's such a dumb dumb and you gotta be like, what

18:52 you doing, dumb dumb Anyway, some of these One of the other Bounty Hunters is raising, which is very cool, very cool. She's very cool. What if a lady had an antenna? What if a lady had a ponytail? If a lady had a ponytail and an antenna and a gun. Truly, George Lucas is a genius. What if she didn't have any other hair except the ponytail part, just a ponytail, just a ponysail part, that's it. What if what if cat bane or a blue man. Uh not just a blue man, a group. With there's with with things on the side of his head with a hat he does indeed, I have a Dave Faloni hat.

19:42 He doesn't have a Dave Faloni hat, but it's big honkin, big honkin hat. A big honkin hat, which Dave Philonie did say. And he has a hat and I like hats. Sporting it a very similar type of hat as Lee and Cleef War in The Good the Bad in. Poopoo Peo Peo Peo Peoo. Apparently what peo peo peo pe You know, this is one of those where when in the Filoni's only behind the scenes, they're like, George, well, actually, let's see, this is one of those characters where George really had a say in the design of the character.

20:23 And in this case, you know, we wanted him to look like yeah, and everything about him is designed to resist, to be able to fight Jedi. The fact that he is a George Lucas designed approved character. You know what, Sometimes George is pretty, It's okay, sometimes Lucas gets it. I don't know, man, I think Dave Filoni had an input because cad Baine does not wear a tu top. That's true. Well, cad Bane is not a girl or a woman one woman, so yeah, he's rad. I forgot that this was like his introduction because you see him in later stuff that's on now and man, was not meant to be in live action. Cadbane was meant to be animated forever and terrifying as ship.

21:10 Isn't he in the live action isn't he in like a Bubba fat or something. Sure is and I don't know why why, I know why. I just don't need it. It starts with it starts with the Dave ins in. I know, foloney, calm down. He's not every character that you We're not talking about those things. We're talking about these things. He's really fucking scary. He's very scary. He has he's truly like he someone who does things solely for money and is prepared and talented. And it's scary, you know. So it's a it's a true it's a true risk.

21:51 The stakes are extremely high. They said, yeah, yeah, it's pretty quickly the episode. I know, I just jumped in talking about this Clone Wars episode, but pretty quickly, pretty quickly, they're like, we're going to prove that this guy means business. He he traps all the senators in. One of the senators is like, well, I'm not going to stand for this, and he just shoots him in the back. Immediately. He's just like, do you want to fuck with me? And everyone's like no, and Pat Me's like Anakin was doing this stupid smooth talk bullshit with me and I have his stupid lightsaber. Yeah, I just ain getna. Yeah in that way, I like it especially. I mean, that's some pretty hard shit for for a kids show.

22:39 Yeah. So yeah, it's feel like the timber of things changed a little bit, especially the ending where I was just like, oh, this is I feel like this would have been wrapped up. No, this is our this is our season one cliffhanger, which I was not expecting. Oh sure, so sure, I mean I guess they get out of danger. But yeah, yeah, they get out of danger, but like the bad guys a chieve their objective. Yeah, man, good, you know, definitely not expecting that for the end of the season. That's great. Yeah, it's really cool. And I did not expect He's see easiero lot.

23:21 You didn't spitch to see you little zero again. I'm gonna tell you a secret. I've seen this. I forgot I thought we were rid of him. Makes sense, it makes sense. And in the Folony Zone and they talk about how like they didn't have time to put like the feathers and the jewelry on there, but like, I know, I know, I know that they read some of the reviews and were like, let's let's not really bother to render the feathers this time. I thought, I, Oh, I didn't realize that they put it that way. I thought that they just justified it by being like they're confiscated from him in prison too. If everyone will remember Zero the Hut from the film Star Wars, Clone Wars film, the Star Wars films.

24:09 At least Star Wars film, Star Wars, the Clone Wars. Where we had the introduction of a Soka Tano tube top, we have the introduction of Rex, many things, the whole vibe of everything. We have baby Hut and we have fucking Zero. What a time to be alive, you know, truly what it's time to be alive? Truly? Yeah? What a solid time too? Just what a solid time? Solid? What if die Hard but in the Imperial or in the Galactic sent Oh, you're right. You're right where you're right, Because the whole idea is that if Anakin doesn't have his lightsaber, how can he get them? How can he save them? Yeah?

24:51 Which is funny because I do feel like in my mind I was like, probably pretty easily. And then you got the force and he does use the force, but turns out that the force of multiple people was greater than his own. Personal force, unlike Mace Windho, who last week we found out can he just tap it the glass? He can tap it the glass. He tapped a glass. Walker does not have glass shattering bill. No, again, a reminder that Mace Windho is really fucking strong. Can you say that closer to the microphone? Really focus off so you can like really get in.

25:33 There, really bucket strong, really sorry about you? Do you want to edit this? Yeah? Yeah, yeah to quote to quote baby baby Nasa Rose from Wicked. Yeah yeah yeah. Pretty rad time, pretty red time all around. Oh sot be yawning. Well, I can't. Start talking about the Savage curtain yet? So bored, so bored? Yeah, I was really bummed, so bored.

26:15 I was not bored during the Clone Wars episode. Should we just talk about a savage curtain? I can? I say? Yeah? Always? Was it just the mood I was in that, Like the hostage crisis was like a legitimately good episode, but I wasn't as like emotionally taken by it as I am by other episodes. I don't think so, because I felt the same way, like it's a solid it's a solid episode, but it feels like there is just something lacking. There's not much as opposed to previous episodes where I feel, especially with the Ryloth episodes, where we had more meat to chew on and thinking about like the status quo and what these things represent. And this episode feels kind of like a straightforward actioner that just takes place in the Galactic Senate and it's not necessarily representative any of the politics represented there in not necessarily a declaration of what the show is standing for. Instead, it's kind of like a straightforward action or where bounty hunters storm the Senate. Not much to say, just kind of reflecting some things.

27:14 You are bringing up a really good point. Thank you, Thank you so much. Good job, Kenny, you brought up a such a good point. You're such a good boy one in terms of shape of show. Literally great to have episodes like that. They don't always have to be hitting hard on the politics. It can just be a straightforward action versus and because I think that's fine, especially the Star Wars A Star Wars in the Floni Zoni, Dave Felony says something very interesting, which is that they have these bounty hunters that are as cool as he wanted to Boba Fett to be.

28:03 Oh that's uh, yes, because I wrote down that line from the Floni Zoni. But the way that I heard it is as cool as Boba Fett was in the original trilogy. That's key difference. But you just said because that strikes me as what he probably said, because Boba Fett is a nothing character. And I will stand by that until I die on this planet. I will too. Luckily you're not going to die on this planet. You'll die in space. We'll make sure of it. Well, well, I unpacked that after the recording. Session because I feel the same way, which is I never like as a person who's been a fan, who was a fan of Star Wars as a child, and frankly thought everybody like you know, thought cool, thought fighty fighting people very cool. I was never I thought Luke was the coolest. I thought Hana and I cool, you know what I mean. Like, I'm just trying to say that I did not discriminate on cool. I was never interested in Boba Fet and I could not actually understand the obsession with Boa Fet because he never did anything cool.

29:15 It's it's extended universe ry. Right, And I think that's it is that people then took it, and I feel like that's kind of true too, even for like Aura Singh, who's like the bound Hander. There's like one flash of her and the Phantom Menace, and it's because of like cart it's because of comics and stuff that people took her. And that's great. You take your characters and you you like give life to them. That's wonderful in terms of like whatever is canon of Star Wars, which whatever the fuck that means, it's never that interesting to me. So I do find it to be like because I think that's what I heard was like wanting to have the cool Bounty Hunters that you thought you that you've always wanted to have.

29:58 Yeah, because he. Mostly just like follows falls into a sarlac and that's it for Boba, you know, it's basically well, I guess he does get for like he does get hans Elo, but like because bad's there, you know what I mean? Like whatever, anyway, he follows them for what it's worth, that's it. He follows them. That's how it happens. Now Django Fat and with his cool little like boom bombs and attack the clones. Very cool that I really like. But you know, but anyway, Sorry, I'm like rambling about this. I just wonder about that, this idea of like I don't know if I particularly find the concepts of bounty hunters without like like bounty hunters without like I mean, they don't have like a heart of fucking gold or something like like Cowboy Bebop bounty hunters, right, Like that's fascinating and interesting to me, but like just straight up batties or like what's her name? The bounty hunter that may not Wing played in Mandalorian Shut sharrek, Shut my god?

31:05 Why can't I think of it? Am I also getting her? I don't know, give me, give me a second, give me a second, give me second, give me a second. But you get what I'm saying, right, You know what I'm saying is that like it just sort of becomes like a thing, right Like it's just like sure, that's it as opposed like it's like that was a cool time, as opposed to it being ming. Oh I said her name, we're wrong entirely ming naw Win Finnix shand like she's interesting. I think she be gets to be an interesting character. Yes, so the end they're just cool, yes, And that. Goes back to aesthetics, right, Like the aesthetics of them are very cool. There's a fish guy. There is a fish guy.

31:46 Would die for that fish guy, though. Stronger things that you need to die for, Aspen. I'm gonna die in space for the fish. No, let's let's stop kind of hitting home this thing that we're both going to die in space. We're gonna talk about that off air. I don't know it's right that I like right anyway, anyway, I. Mean greens that. I don't know what the Bounty Hunters perspectives are in terms of what the show is exploring in regards to Bounty Hunters. Yet, from what I understand, we've got more episodes with these Bounty Hunters coming up. Yeah, so I have a special we're going to be exploring that a little bit more usually.

32:26 But if I guess to be cool as a kid, sorry, I think I think they're the ones he hangs out with, too cool learns how to be a learns how to be a little bounty hunter from them? From from what? From them? Oh? From them? Okay, I thought you were going to like say a planet or something. No, just you're going to learn how to be a bounty Hunter from them. I thought that you were looking at my eyebrows. I was looking at your eyebrows while also waiting for the rest of the sentence, Thank you. I appreciate that. Yeah, it's a pretty good episode. I wish that I had more to say outside of it. Just like being pretty pretty good. We do get to see Anakin and Padme actually be direct about their relationship.

33:14 How do you feel? How do you feel about that? Same? Certainly better than the ones that are in episode three. I gotta say the bar is extremely low. It's yeah, it could be worse. Right, because it's like they stuck with Anakin's really bad at talking about their relationship because the language usage is bad. But at least it like makes more sense in the context. Yeah, he's a lot more brash and Padme is a lot more of a pragmatist. Yeah, she's also fucking working. That's true. Anakin should be working. It was like one of those moments where it was like she's like writing a report on her little computer.

33:55 She's to be debick clicking. She is busy rafting up a built This is something that we could talk about. Uh. The Enhanced Privacy Invasion. Bill, also known as the Patriot Act. Sure, yeah, for sure, sneaking that into your Clone Wars TV show, which is great. Yep, that's still going on, right, the Patriot Act. Oh yeah, hey. And then not only that, I'm like, hey, I don't want my location to be tracked. And then my friends are like why they already know, and I'm like, that's not a it's not a never mind, I know, I know. It's fine.

34:38 Yeah, it's interesting, like little moments like that of she's, yeah, doing this political work that's important. The horror of the thing, right is that she's, oh god, she's doing the essential, essential political work while these all these machinations are happening despite it all. Yeah, well, if I understand correctly, she is drafting a bill to help combat the enhanced invasion or the enhanced privacy invasion bill. Right, Uh you ever want to die? No? No, that's not I can't stop talking about Yeah. So that's yeah, that's fascinating.

35:27 So she's working on the spill and he's like we should go away, and she's like and he's. Like, don't padme goes. I'm trying to fight the Patriot Act, and is like, but what if we just kind of let fascism happen, so I can, so I can get it out. It is kind of interesting the way that Anakin sees this conflict versus the way she sees it. Like I have always wondered about his sort of tunnel vision around it, of fighting almost for the sake of fighting, as opposed to really seeing what makes it go, if that makes sense, Like to him, I do think that there's a clear black and white to it of like separatis bad, Republic good, I fight, I'm a good soldier. That clarity is easy for him, Yes, And that's also a reflection of sort of the sort of structure of the Jedi and what leads to a downfall, which is like there's not a lot of space for nuance, especially even about their own capabilities.

36:32 And then meanwhile, here's his like whips smart, committed fucking wife, I don't know when. Yeah, because a fabulous point. I hope that the show expands on that, because that's that standing point and a great character dynamic, because perhaps Pad may, perhaps Pad may find something refreshing in that almost naivete within Anakin, and that sometimes thinks can be that simple, can't it? Things can just be good, Things can just be evil versus padme having to work within the pipes that is the Senate and seeing how all of these machinations work and everything has got to be gradations, and how much has she had to sacrifice in order to get an Ioto good because things are so broken from the ground.

37:27 Up, even wonder like what kind of I mean, it was all all created, all planned by Palpatine. You can imagine what a like post war Anakin would look like who hadn't gone to the dark side. Yeah, he almost strikes me as like he'd be like Jeremy Renner's character from hurt Locker, Like he just like couldn't fucking do it, Like the complexity of the thing he just couldn't handle or manage. Yeah, And I think that's just, you know, it's a it's sort of by like who he is, and also the way he's been raised, the kinds of situations he has been plopped into, it's forced into, yeah, and forced the force. I think it's a really good point that maybe maybe from the perspective of bad may to be like, yeah, this is just like nice, but I don't have to like all.

38:25 Of this is kind of assumption versus possibly what's on the page because in episode two they get together because the plot has to have them get together. Well, it's because they are in love. Yeah, no, no, no, no, it's because I'm so in love with you. Oh gosh, right, so love has blended you. Not exactly. God, I hate it. I hate it. So meet this one are God. Yeah, but you're right. He die hards in this movie. He does die hard. He does, which is I mean, that's also just a clever notion something that Gandhi did in the two D clone Wars of being Like what would a Jedi be like without their lightsaber? You saw that in the first Mace Window episode.

39:18 Yeah, that one, and he was still scary, like extreme, still impressive, Like he gets taken down and he only gets taken down by the most impressive but yeah, most impressive by blood of them and like, but yeah, it's still pretty rad. Yeah, oh my god. Anyway, it's just yes, it's pretty solid, some solid ship. You know what was not solid? Not that? Not fish Guy because he was solid. Ye love fish Guy. Let's talk about savage curtain, right, Okay, okay, I mean yeah. So Jeene shows up and he's like, all right, I gave myself some assignments to write this week, because he assigned himself two episodes this year, this one and turn About Intruder, which we'll get to.

40:13 Does that one better? It'll be left up to you ask man, Oh god, I want this to be over. What do you think of this episode? Right, it's pretty obvious what we thought about this episode. This is like a Sleepy Sours episode where literally we've seen all of this before. Yeah, I guess. I just it's like I said when I saw I ever have Lincoln all on what I'm so thrilled because what the fuck? Like, that's so weird, so weird. It's another one of those episodes where for an act and a half, Kirk is going around, well, people are going going around being like, truly, it can't be Abraham Lincoln, right, right, you can't. He thinks he's Abraham Lincoln. We all agree that's crazy, right, they can't be for an act and a half.

41:10 For an act and a half, favorite like he has like all like the specific things you do when the president comes on deck and whatever, and the music and every like got to look good in their specific nice uniforms and stuff, and everyone's just like, Jim, you're crazy, and Scott is like, I kind of believe it. What if it's Robert Burns and it's just like what. Sorry, what if it's rubber Bands Robert Burns? Is that Robert Burns? I'm just. Robbie Burns. I don't know who's Robbie Burns. I don't know. Am I naming the wrong guy? Who are you talking about? I don't know.

41:52 I'm just naming a Scottish person. What's a Scottish poet and lyricist? He is widely regarded as the national poet of Scotland and itself upraided worldwide. Yep, oh, I don't think he's but yeah, I don't know if that's the way name. I just picked the only famous Scottish person who's like, not Tony Blair I knew, or David Tennant. Uh uh, he said. Scotty says President Lincoln. Indeed, no doubt, to be followed by Louisa France and Robert I'm doing more Scottish than Scotty does. Louisa francaid Robert the Bruce, and Kirk says, and if so, mister Scott will execute appropriate honors each Robert the Bruce, your reference is better than the one that run very main.

42:38 Good job, he's so much Robert Barns truly deserves presidential accolotes and yeah or whatever it might be. Oh my god, did you know Tony Blair was Scottish? I did not know that Tony Blair was Scottish. There's this such a like a discriminate discrimination against Scottish people in the UK of like being like, oh, they're poor, they like their accent is like like their low brow and stuff. And so Tony Blair Scottish took on an English like received pronunciation accent, and I think people just didn't even. Know, Like, fun fact, isn't David Tennant Scottish? Yes, sure is. Yeah, so his natural accent Scottish and he's like the doctor. Yeah, it takes on a just a yeah, it's just a typical.

43:27 Yeah, but we're not talking about doctor who. We're talking about the Savage Curtain. A savage curtain. Yeah, sorry, sorry, Yeah. Let's see what episodes is Geene Roddenberry stealing from. Uh Chrick Skellian is the first thing I. Thought of, Arena for sure, right, oh yeah, the second half of the episode is definitely arena as well. Freaking who mourns for aDNA by encountering, encountering something, encountering a person in space that you shouldn't be encountering in space.

44:08 Yep uh, these are the voyages by Mark Christmas. Susan A. Burren's Coos season three also says Specter of the Gun because they're forcing people to fight. Wait, the Specter of the Gun the cool okay, kral one, Yeah, but that one's cool. That's what I was thinking of, Like, what's a good comparison point? And I actually do think Specter of the Gun does come closest. And that is just such a cool episode that like nothing could touch it for me. I like, I love that episode so much. I was just thinking I was thinking about watching this one. And I was like, because I got so much. That one's got style at the Wazoo Man. Yeah, so well, and this episode.

44:56 Is an episode who it's slow. There's just not much happening, I mean. But kind of slow, like slow as in bad follow. Oh. I was deeply distracted watching this one. I had to stop, like searching online for cool boots. I was like, Aspen, you have to do your work. But I did buy the boots today, so thank you. Thank you. I'm glad that it was worth it in the end, you know, yeah, I mean, okay, So Abraham Lincoln the whole concept, right, tell me if I'm right, the.

45:37 Whole He got hat and he's tall, and I was burdened with glorious purpose. Now now now I'm quoting Lincoln on my shelf. Does he say that? Does he say burden mc glory's purpose. Yes, this movie hawks Gosh, Lincoln garious purpose. He is birded with glorious purpose. I don't like what Spielberg. You don't like. You don't like latter day Spielberg. You think he's running everything. In Boring Spielberg. I don't know. That's not true. I like you. It's so good. I'm sure Lincoln is extraordinary. Actually, I think it's really good because it's talking about more like how he got the Thirteenth Amendment past, and the answer is by playing politics.

46:27 Great. I mean it would be. It's not just like he showed up and he just had like force of just being a cool guy. You know, I think I've always been a little fun fact about me. This will be not surprising to anyone. Anytime someone is like seems like a nightmare on set. It makes me not want to watch a movie. And Daniel day Lewis is like was is a genius? Right, but like the method acting of it all is so like well who said it was? Like there was like someone like some actor who was asked like, do you have a do method acting? And they're like, no, it's called acting. That's like why I don't the Lawrence Olivier and Dustin Hoffman story where.

47:13 Oh that's it, that's it. Yes, that's it the Olivier Like, next time Dustin try acting? Yeah, like and I and I get it, like truly it was phenomenal, like and its best version of it is Daniel day Lewis and Lincoln right, and its worst version is Jared leto mailing ship, you know to coworkers like wized like and I I just I don't have a lot of space for. That. I just don't a lot of space for that. You know what? I should watch link because it sounds like it was. Rad It's really good. Tommy Lee Jones is a career best. The dialogue sounds like music, beautiful stuff good.

47:56 I watch it. I'll watch it. I'll watch it. Oh stop yelling at me. In regards to Lincoln. Uh, Abraham Lincoln, not Lincoln in the car? Oh sure, Dorothy Fontana your idol? My girl said, yeah. From These Are the Voyages tos Season three by Mark Cushman and Susan Osborne. By the book, Lincoln was Jean's big, big idol. There was a lot of how do you say it? Lee Kogna in the house. I never saw the Savage Curtain, but it didn't surprise me that Gene wrote it because he was such a fan of Lincoln. He thought that Lincoln, in his thinking and what he did, was probably the greatest president we ever had. And then yeah, so he was right about that. He's wanting to write about violence on TV. She was covered in bread and circuses and they These Are the Voyages. Actually makes the parallel that the idea for the Sage Curtain came to Roddenberry when he was writing a memo to NBC telling them about the latest script turned in by Gene Kuhn the Last Gunfight otherwise known as Specter of the Gun otherwise known as the Okay Corral episode. So Gene is literally writing a memo about that episode and pitches a story that is basically that episode, what kind of memo

49:27 was it? Uh? It is? It is literally I don't have the entire memo here, I literally just have the plot synopsis here, which is kirkn'spock cap alienated, a vastly superior race whose motive execution is to arrange an entertaining death from colorful history of the subjects leads of all their futuristic gear and weapons. The Enterprise captain and his science officer must faced the most vicious gun man in Western history. Oh oh, I see god, there is just memo about the Yeah. Yeah, and then instead of our excalbion guy, instead we were going to have a character called the playwright. Okay, sure, I yeah, I there's nothing wrong with this, Like, at its core the idea of having actual Lincoln like someone who So it makes sense that Jeane Roddenberry absolutely idolized him because Kirk idolizes him too. But like like Kirk idolizes him, he sees him as the same, Like clearly it's the same thing. It's like, I this was.

50:38 I wonder sometimes, having not seen the film Lincoln, about the simplicity of being able to idolize Lincoln when you're writing in a time of it's the sixties, you're in the middle, like it's the civil rights movement, like that, the politics of eighteen sixty five are going to be complicated, and he's not going to be a perfect saint of a person. He's going to hold in the same way that FDR also one of our greatest presidents, also locked Japanese Americans up in Japanese people in internment camps. Like there is no running this country and doing it as a pure saint, Like there just isn't. And I wonder if there's a simplicity, it's being able to look back on that and be like, ah, perfection of person.

51:36 There's a simplicity. And I dare say that something that we talked about since the beginning of this podcast, the Great Man narrative, right, And no wonder that Gene would be a fan of Lincoln because he buys into the Great Man narrative, and then Gene himself spends the Great Man narrative ununtil his dying days going around a college campus. Has gone to science conventions, correspondence with Star Trek fans, and he is never really able to He's never really able to recapture the same magic with doing something new, but gosh darn itt is he able to spin a to weave a web of how great of a man he was during Star Trek fighting all those sensors and fighting for the first black kiss on TV, fighting for all of these things. Boy, what he truly is the great bird of the galaxy. I Meanwhile, in this episode, he wrote the first two acts and then was like, I'm done. I've got two other feature films in development. Piece, And so he wrote the first two acts and gave them over to Arthur Heinemann, who, in his debats, wrote two other episodes that we really dig, The Way to Eden and Wink of an Eye.

52:49 Sure, yeah, And I mean, like, how how else? Like there is an interesting like the struggle of how to you like, sorry, no, actually I want to stick with the great man stuff. But I do want to say Tosamen's Credian Vegan and that is and I love Lucy reference for all of you. God, what are you talking about?

53:43 Yeah? Yeah, I do want to say tomins The way that he does end it from what he's given is pretty pretty okay. Like there is this sort of like how would these people have placed in this situation manage this thing? So whatever the episode of kirk AND's back being like what was all that for? Yeahs were like because we had to know and kirkans Bach if I recall, well primarily Kurt as opposed to like some great resolution, there's a sense of exasperation, right for everything that has taking place, right right. You're right and okay, so yeah, great man narrative. We're talking about great Man narratives. Great Man narratives, TM. We've talked about it at length.

54:29 I'm so tired of it. I just think, imagine living your life and not like adapting to the new beautiful things that come into and like being like what is the new? Just thinking about the idea of like clinging to something of the past when it's like what is it that matters most to you? And I guess it must be that it must be the past and the way that it once felt, as opposed to being like what are those new seasons of my life? This is mostly just me waxing on about my perceived understanding of Jean Rodenberry's life. I don't know. Also, I'm just done with great man not is because we know how I feel right now about populists and men who think they're great in our present and not yet. I'm fine. That was my sad song for you.

55:26 It's fine. Uh yeah, it's I almost like at this point, I'm just like cool dude, so what you know, as opposed to being interested in examining it much at all anymore. It's interesting to examine a retrospect and also freaking even Jeene Roddenberry, who is so attached with a Star Trek. Uh. Even Gene at this point is like, I'm checked out, y'all. I'm writing a movie, I'm working on other stuff. I'm going to be more than the Star Trek guy. Yeah, and attempting to move on. But at the same time, like you said, he is, he's injecting his things that he wants to examine, which makes sense. That's what writers do, That's what creatives do. They hopefully inject some sort of thing that they are interested in examining. It's just that, you know, this episode isn't really good and it hasn't examined anything new. There's no new style to it. Yeah, it's just there. There is not that much to say outside of like giving a shrak.

56:36 Is curious. Okay, I will say what is good about this episode? I do think the different characters are very cool. I think, especially if they are reincarnations of those real people, pretty awesome. The perceptions of who these people are to our characters. It's not Lincoln. It's how Kirk thinks Lincoln. Is right, which is why it's not like reincarnation. That's why it's not actually these people. It's how they're perceived. That's an interesting thing, but it's not really examined. But yeah, they don't really go into it because I do think if there was any type of complexity in the perception that Kirk has of Lincoln, what would it look like, Let's just throw this out there, for Lincoln to let him down, you know, like what would that mean?

57:27 What would it mean for your great man to like what it is is he basically he doesn't let him down so much as he does sacrifice himself for I mean like, yeah, I mean he doesn't he doesn't let him down. Yeah, he's brave, and that's like it, you know, But what if it were that he decided, actually I am going to like engage in bloodlust and this is like a thing I'm going to do. Like how interesting that or what's the Volcanscharrector's name again, Sirrak Surrac also someone who. Is willing to die for his idealism, because Sir X says in that there's something there's something there to be said about the natures of good and evil, because as we've seen demonstrated time and time again, evil will not stop until it achieves his goal. And as we have seen so many times, things that we perceive as good are willing to cave over and over and over again because of idealism, and they're wanting to what their ideals stand forward. And meanwhile, how many things have to suffer because we are we are negotiating the notions of how good can we be? How will we be sacrificing our ideals? Meanwhile, Colonel Green and Kalss and gangkhis Khan and Zora are like, we should make sharper spears.

58:44 You are actually nailing with the episode starting to be about but wasn't actually about Yeah, that's what it is like if because I do think that Kirk is reflecting an idea of like we have to like. Free, have to Yes, another episode is stealing from it's freaking the enemy within remember yeah, right, because it was regily like splitting Kirk up into good Kirk people Kirk. But as we saw it was more complex than that. Yes, that like it like I exactly what you just said is way more interesting for me that It's like when as opposed to being like, oh, turns out you were willing to fight, and he's like yeah, because you literally said you would kill my crew and there's no other option here, and he's just like, okay, looks like good is just as bad as evil, bye bye bye, like and you're like, okay, no, like the rules are stupid if it were more of a conver like and that's why.

59:42 Sorry that my crew deserves to live. While you are exercise where you were taking conducting a literal exercise? What is the fairness in that? Right? And I think what you're getting at, which I think is being is being colored also by our current ways that we feel, which is to say, what point are like are we caving? Like? And I'm not necessarily saying that, like something should be achieved through violence, But it's not as though the violence itself is black and white. There is not. It's not like there is good, like it's just not like what am I trying to say, it's not like the violence is bad all the time.

1:00:22 I am also not trying to be like a little warhawk, right, but I do think I. Will say that on your face. For few people that are listening to the audio version, you have what is stenciled on your face too, are going to be a bald eagle with guns. It's bullets, bullet bullets, real big ones, big ones that just go boom boom boom boom boo boom, specific ones that have names. What's your favorite? Oh yeah, I would say a more Mortimer five, the what Mandibal six five, A mookty milkty ten.

1:01:15 Yeah, but you. It's just you know, guns, got so many of them, just so into them, just now all their names. Wow. Wow, Uh, you are making more interesting note, which is can I can I just share a little thing that you are making me think about that has nothing to do this episode, but what you were making me think about. I'm having this current vibe feeling with our current political situation of wanting the equivalent of the nasty Republican Party wanting the same kind of like dirty fighting bullshit on our side. I want the equivalent of I want I don't want they go low we go high, I want they go low, we go lower? Do you I want it so bad? And I want to just like I just want people if they are told a thing, they are going to they're going to believe it. And it takes so much more to undo the falsehood, right like played by the fucking rules? What a gun damn like nightmare?

1:02:23 Like Kevin Newsome in there, you know, Like I don't know, do. You want a president that's bring a full circle? Do you want a president that's willing to suspend habeas corpus? Oh? Like Lincoln? Again was he a perfon man? Oh? But he got fourteenth Amendment passed, right? Or a president who was willing to fucking in turn Japanese Americans? I know? But also how we're not playing We're not playing by any fucking rules anymore, like you know what I mean, Like I think we're Oh, I'm getting this is this is what I'm talking about right here is like a two hour long conversation. Well, I mean, we can pull this back into the terms of the nineteen sixties and where TV was in the nineteen sixties, which is sure living in a world where good must always triumph over evil at least within the art that we are consuming at the time, and so too was TV trying to reflect that, as These Are the Voyages season three by Mark Cushman is and Osborne makes great pains to clarify.

1:03:21 Why what because of things like Vietnam we are living or because we're still so close to World War two and post World War two? Let us forget nineteen let us not forget that in nineteen sixty eight we had RFK was shot Martin Luther King, Smartin Luther King. Vietnam is going on, and there are concerned parents across America that TV is reflecting an extremely violent culture, which is I see extremely true, and so too our television broadcast standards attempting to try and curtail some of these more violent tendencies. Well, I won't go into all of that. I guess the original versions of it, at least, as talked about in These Are the Voyages, the original version of the Savage Current was going to be a lot more violent and they scaled it back, which all right, yes, yeah, I don't really recall what the point that I was going to make otherwise, other than that maybe some of those corners that we could have used were standed off because of standards and practices of the time, because we live in a honky dory world where good must always try it over equal and it's not Yes, as they stated in The Enemy Within, it's not necessarily living within that binary.

1:04:43 Sure, well, well, well here. We are here, we are indeed left with a lackluster episode that is again, as we stated so many times, and so too will I stayed again an episode with a lackluster execution or its greatest idea, which is space for hand Lincoln. It doesn't really go then, doesn't really go anywhere. Just so people know who I haven't seen this episode, and make no mistake, you don't have to see this episode. The way that he appears his first appearance is that he's just like in space, like they're like something's coming on screen, and he just comes toward like the camera sitting down like the Lincoln memorial and just appears and materializes, just sitting down, and he's just like, it's.

1:05:31 Me, it's me, hid the problem, It's me. DoD You ever watch Clone High No, That is a great that's a great example of what you can do with Abraham Link. You can turn him into a teenager and making the main character of your cartoon show. That show slapped, that's all? Who did it better than the star Trek Clone high. A long time ago? Start dating? This week? I courted a boat, I dated a geek, but none of them could warp my drive into hyper space. The best of both worlds kept me in the second place.

1:06:24 Captain slog on a Holla kron. I wanted a song. I penned a song. Seventeen more minutes advise in super high def aboard the USS Enterprise dt' don't you take my walk lighter and clip it? Don't you take my wretchered buddy and nip it? If you spill the tea, I'm gonna sip it. I starship, It's what are we doing right now? Hi? We're gonna We're gonna name our favorite ships, their favorite ships in space where you're going to die, my favorite romantic ships.

1:07:10 Yeah, outstanding? Would you care to go first? This week? I did not prepare. You know how often I don't prepare for my own studios? Oh boy, every single week the segment isn't going anywhere else. I'm so sorry. All right, I can I'll go ahead and go first because I did prepare, and I will start with the course on taxicab from hostage crisis. What the course on taxicab? Oh, that's really nice. The course on taxicab what can be described as a flying bubba fat tea with an open compartment. And please listeners, correct me if we have already used uh, the the flying vehicle. I got that. That that is the course on taxicab. But they get in it and they're flying around. Uh.

1:08:02 And not only that, but it's got a weird uh side car. It's not really a side car so much as it is kind of like an extra attachment at the end, just for zero, the hut, the toe. I loved that because I like that. Yeah, it's like the sidecar, but it's like it's just connected and so it like swings them around a little bit, which is just absurd. It's absurd. It's absurd, and so, you know, I like it. It's like a little convertible. I mine, I know, mine, what's yours? Abraham Lincoln's flying space Chair. Oh boy, you're not gonna get much better than that space chair. The mileages on that space chair.

1:08:52 Gas guzzlers awful, ship man, and you know that gas is expensive and spares. It's like like whoa bunch of john ship credits, gold plate a latinum. Wow, that's it. Man. He just flies materializes on his little chair. What happens to his chair? He disappears. It's really a bummer because it's a good chair. Maybe the real Abraham Lincoln space chair or the ideals he held too. Yeah, like suspension of habeas corpus. That's right, now, that's right.

1:09:33 We totally Oh, I've got it. Please sorry, go on, No no no, no, no, no no no you do you do your your ship ship, your romantic ship. It's too juicy, it's too juicy. Ass when please, what is your ship of the week? It's Abraham Lincoln and uhura, oh boy. Yeah, we didn't even talk about what about that? I just made it mind so we could talk about that. Well one, here's the thing they wanted to be like, Hey, this man is from a time period where slavery was around, and he passes helps pass the thirteenth Amendment and so and he kind of comes in and he calls her a name, and it feels weird, especially by our current standards, and but he's just like, oh, but it's like a compliment, but also probably like my words might be like weird right now, and she's like, hey, there's nothing about me that I like that we feel any shame about in terms of our differences. Now, it's a very weird response, actually, especially given that.

1:10:54 I'm gonna look down the barrel of my webcam. This is a actually my ship. I just wanted to bring this up. I want to do a real ship because I don't like this as I'm talking about it. I just wanted to talk about it because it's I'm remembering it and we didn't actually mention it. Lists if you could take my reaction to make a gift. Yeah, this good, this good? Oh you look so close shared. It's just it's just a weird one. It's a very concerning, very gene Roddenberry line. Yeah, because and I'm not I'm not quoting it correctly, but it just it just also isn't true given all the other things that happen in the show, is it. Maybe it's not true. I think it is true, but like you still have different kinds of inconsistencies, Like you still have her addressing the fact that she's a woman, and they're like different expectations around that or like differences and things. The fact that like Spock as a vulcan is insulted and othered in the first season more so than later seasons. Right, So this kind of sentiment of like this is just not something we just like take offense to because all these differences are celebrated is just like untrue in the context of the show and has the very like white liberals sort of just like oh my god, like we did it color bline, gold line.

1:12:11 Oh my god. I'm glad they didn't push it too much further than they pushed it, like it was already like frankly cringe enough. That's not my ship. I just remember that, that's not your ship. No, because as soon as they started to say it, I was like, I don't like it. I don't like it. Wow, good thing we have word processing these days. Click click delete, delete, delete, delete, backspace, backspace, backspace, Get out that get out that white white out man? Remember why? Yeah? I had to explain what whiteout was to Heidi last week? What so I was talking about I gotta a show not of this. I might did you cut this out?

1:12:57 But I think one of the monkeys is mother are invented? Yes? Yes, Uh, Peter Tork, I don't know how I know that, but anyways, I was explaining the concept of alimony Tony Paul F. Tompkins's character from comedy Bang Bang. Oh, sure you do you know this character? No, but I'm not surprised alimony Tony. Uh. He's a character who loves to pay alimony. It's one of his favorites of the world. That's funny. And so he keeps getting married. None of the none of the marriages works out, but it's okay because he loves paying alimony. He's great friends with all of his axes. Anyways, he has a limitless amount of money because his mother is the inventor of gashes paper.

1:13:46 It's really good here. Let me let's do a reel. Let's do a real ship, My real ship, my real ship. You look like a shy six year old who is scared to do their solo for the talent show. My realp is going to be I don't know what's yours. My ship is going to be Zora and Gang is Khan. Okay, good, good, good, that's a good one. That's a good one. I was wondering. She didn't say anything. The entire fucking episode. And I think Ganghis Khan might have had one line.

1:14:29 Yeah, maybe Jesus Christ. And so I imagine because they were so focused on their intense, white hot passions for each other that they didn't have too much to suggest to the evil machinations that Colonel Green was kind of putting together. Yeah, okay, I like this. I like this. Also, while we're talking about Colonel Green, I love the way that Colonel Green starts out, which is just like, let's settle it. He uses diplomacy as a weapon, and I'm like, yeah, of course we see that all the time. Right, gross. Okay, that's a good one. That's a good one.

1:15:11 Bad guy, my Okay, here's my real one. Hold on, I gotta write that down. Zora and Gang is Gone, is gone. Here's my real one. Fish Guy mm hmm and cat Baine and cat Bane is it? Because fish Guy's at the right height for things. You know what I'm saying, thatst thing. You know what I'm saying. I don't even want you to expand. Mostly I just wanted fish boy to have love. What is that character's name? Oh no, if I love that fish guys so much, and I think that.

1:15:53 I gotta tell you. I typed in hostage crisis and go and uh, unsurprisingly actual hostage popped out. Ron and yeah, yeah, yeah, and like, yeah, seeking well, what's the seventies? Okay? I was trying to think I want him to be I wanted him to be paired with someone so bad, so I was I was just picking. And he has definitely a relationship with Cadbane that fills you know. Cadbane's actually like clearly like the leader of this group and he's like, you gotta get this done and like stuff like that, right, but he does it more in that voice. It's like get it done. You know. It's like kind a strange, weird, mechanized voice and he's like, don't worry about it, I will or whatever his voice sounds.

1:16:36 I watched this episode and I just feel like it makes for a great power dynamic that's dangerous. But like when do bounty hunters follow the rules? And they don't and he's actually yelling at him because secretly that's what he likes, and that's you know what happens. So anyway, that's my that's my what's his real name? Boy? Is it a stupid name? It's not is it is it is it Robin. I don't think here because I remember they made a big, big deal with Robino, our last. Proper filony zone anymore.

1:17:19 Yep, it's Robin Robino. The rest of the Felony Zones, at least for season two, are grouped together by Arc. Oh. Okay, okay, okay. Deep Bradley Baker IS's voice, which is great. You're so talented. We should get Deep Bradley Baker on the podcast. Perfect. We'll just have him to do the voice of the Prodigy character the whole time. Yeah, there we go, we did it. Anything else, I guess we're done. Hah ha ha, good night. Thank you so much everyone, thank you for listening. Oh yeahs so great. Oh wait, we didn't do what we're supposed to. We didn't do the most important part of the podcast.

1:18:04 Indeed, we did not answer the most important question fandom, which is better Star Treker Star Wars by going through both franchises and chronological release order. Funny you are very funny TV of my Friends. So yes, the episodes today that we are ranking against. What TVs very funny? The funny network TV is the funny number. Yeah, that's right. Again. The episodes are The Savage Curtain from Star Trek the original series, He's One versus, the final episode of season one of Star Wars, the Clone Wars Hostage Crisis, and I will go second aspin, why don't you give us a ranking for our hostage crisis?

1:18:45 Seven point five? No? No, nope? Wait wait yeah, hold yeah, hold maybe. A seven point four seven point four I like we're talking about. I think it is a right across the right, across the bat, across the plate, just like a fastball, you know. It's like great instruction of characters, like just like very specific, very interesting, fantastic stuff. Slightly lacking emotionally, so I wasn't like as invested as I have been in others that I would maybe rank a little bit higher than I felt really pumped by. Like I thought it was really cool, but I wasn't as pump So it's still very solid.

1:19:29 Love it, Uh. I am going to rank a six for all the reasons that you just provided. I feel like that makes it a six episode. That's it. I have no powerful argument as to why it says less than a seven point four. That's just how I feel. I think I'm like in like in my brain, like, sometimes things get stuck, and I think they're all kind of stuck in seven seven up to nine. Yeah, unless we get like a shitty. One, you know, which would be an argument for previous guests Mark Kerchak's four point ranking system. I don't like that though. I like a five point ranking system, but then also a half star for well, and also we're not getting into the ranking system. We're sticking to our ranking system because that's the kind of podcast that we are resolute.

1:20:12 Perfect or resolute, and we never shift or change or change our minds. Ever, speaking of resolute and never shifting and never changing in our minds, Aspen, what do you rank a Savage Curtain? I don't know. I'm gonna give you like a five. Yeah. I don't think it's bad. I don't think it's like a bad episode. It's just you already said. It just retreads everything. It doesn't say anything interesting, It doesn't even care about what it itself has to say. It doesn't even have like an interesting moment at the end. But it's also not bad, Like, it doesn't make me angry, it just makes me kind of bored. M that's all excellent. The guy who played Lincoln really ruled. Actually, it's definitely one of those where like I felt, and then the guy who played the other bad dy and of the people like the sort of like the people from history nailed it, did a great job.

1:21:05 Libergere in the role Abraham Lincoln, and someone else played Colonel Green, and I don't recall who that person's name is, so I'm going to keep shifting through my book in order to find that name. Do you think Lieberger between takes kept pretending to be fucking Abraham Lincoln. He was like, I'm an actor, that's right, Colonel Green, star Trek. Yeah, man, Colinel Colonel. Green, Colonel Homestall one ole remember that. I'm sure I'm star runner. I actually never watch. I'm star runner. Steve Rink. No, Philip Pine, Philip Pine playing the role of Colonel Green. Anyways, I'm ranking this episode of zero what why not? Only do we have it pretty bad, pretty bad brown face with Genghis Khan oh oh yeah yeah, but also something that is absolutely indefensible, Abraham Lincoln looking at Kirk and being like, you remind me of another general that I respect. Oh, he says Grant, He says Grant.

1:22:16 Yeah, he says Grant. Oh gosh, dang it. Then I'm going to bump it up to a point five. Yeah, he says Grant. He does not say Lee. I thought he was talking about Roberty. Lee. No, he says Grant. So then Kirk's like, oh, well, thank you, and then he doesn't talk about the fact that Grant wasn't so so president. Yeah, well I rank it a point five brown face. Yeah, also with the there's a kling on there too, right, m oh gosh, yeah, so there's a lot of brown face. Your it's pretty broad. It's pretty broad, yeah, which means, uh, Savage Curtain has a paltry two point seventy five this week versus hashes Christ the Crisis six point seven, which means Aspen, I'm the winner. You are the winner. Look at you, Look at you.

1:23:07 You, Cadan are the winner this week it's me Cadbane. Has been. Since we aren't finishing the first season of Star Wars the Clone Wars, do you have any final parting thoughts? As we say as we bid ad to season of Star Wars. I have said this before and I'll say it again. I am delighted. I was delighted by how good this season of Clone Wars was in my memory of it. I think I enjoyed it when I watched it the first time, but I wasn't like in it. I didn't really get super and consumed by it for like a couple more seasons. And I think people do like all around, you know, if you're gonna rank them, they rank this one the lowest. That doesn't mean it's bad, it's just comparatively the lowest. I think it's kind of like any show, like it kind of takes sometimes like a season to really like get into its groove and then it sort of launches. But all that to say with all that side, rather like it's great, Like it was like there maybe there were some that were like a little bit more duds, but others that were just like glorious, gorgeous episodes, and everything just got better and better. And I love Star Wars Clone Wars. It makes me really happy. And that's my thought.

1:24:27 It's fun. It's fun to get a seasonal Clone Wars under my belt. I feel satisfying. I'm excited to watch more seasons of Star Wars Clone Wars, excited to see things deepen, become even more complex. I'm amped man, if it was just this season, I'd be like, all right, but I'm excited for this is our baseline and to see where the heck we go from here? Nice? Yeah, you know what else is nice? You and you and also all our listeners. If you wish to get in contact with us, why don'd you go ahead and hit us up on our social media accounts on Instagram dot com, slash at trak wars Pod or over on Blue Skies. That's a whole bunch of people are migrating over to Blue sky at trek wars Pod over there as well. Additionally, if you don't want to hop on social media, why don't you just send us an email trek Wars Pod at gmail dot com while you're at a subscribe to our YouTube channel YouTube dot com slash at trak Wars Pod as well, and you can see Asthma make wild gesticulations such as this indeed perfectly summing up the current the current state of so many emotions in this country, so right at the momot. And lastly, but certainly not leastly, it would do us a great service if you would sign up for our patreon Patreon dot com slash at trak Wars up pod where for five dollars a month, you can help us keep the lights on, pay for infrastructure, pay for such fine things as you know, video stuff, because that's certainly not well.

1:25:55 You know, we're we're we're we're still losing money out things, but we're kind of breaking even. That's pretty nice and so, uh no, that's fine. I don't do the accounting. It's fine. I don't mean to say it's fine in the way of being like it's not actually fine. It is actually fine, but certainly every single bit helps, and you two could join the fine auspices of fine faults such as Timbo de Sosa, Heidi Rogers, Kevin Miller, Arizona, Mark Austin, Aaron about bab Cactus and lastly, but certainly not leastly, Jaulty partner who composed our I starship at theme song. Our theme song is composed by mister Tostin al Wifesso. Please visit the show notes in the show notes below, which makes sense, click on his name and go see a whole bunch of his actual work. Aston.

1:26:39 Can folks see you anywhere else? I? Uh no, yes, I mean I don't know if you live in La I guess I'll be in some shows soon at some point. I don't know. By the way, we're just meeting. The thing we were talking about this like Star Trek TG group. It's a group that used to do stuff pandemic pretty consistently. So maybe you forget it back together. Like there'll be like multiple opportunities to see if you live in the LA area to come see me do Star Trek shows improvised'd be cool, But I don't know when that's that's all. Otherwise, if you just seen me walking down the street, I don't know. You might say I love you. I might say I love you. I might say I love you. Is that what you say to me if you saw me? Oh my god, I love you.

1:27:24 My listeners, we love you. May the Force be with you and live long and prosper. Why are you looking at me like that? You said you would watch it. You specifically gave me a date that you would watch Ale and Romulus. You gave me a date. You gave me a date I. Had all this is done. Your homework, guy into do you. Gave me a date that you would watch it? Genre?

1:28:05 What do you mean genre? I need to watch a lot of new films. What do you mean you had to watch a bunch of new films I still picked up. You gave me a date that you would watch Alien Romulus. I'm so sorry. Have I asked anything from you this year? Have I asked anything. You asked for? You asked for things. What happened you watched the AMLA I okay,