The Cloud Minders v. Liberty on Ryloth

0:27 Welcome to the Track Wars Podcast, the one podcast that dares to answer the most important question and fandom, which is better Star Wars or Star Trek by going through both franchises and chronological release order. I am Kenny Madison, the Star Trek contingent with me as for always as the co host with the mo host. 'tis I Aspen Webster? You're Star Wars person? Hello? Ask me please? Yes? Yes, don't be done with that haughty attitude. Get down from your high horse and join the resistance of people that are attempting to make something happen. Now, I'm up in the clouds. It is ill. But before we get our heads lost in the clouds, why don't we go ahead and say that we're covering the Cloud Minders from Star Trek the original series from Star Trek the original series from Star Trek the Original Series Season three versus Liberty on Ryloth from Star Wars The Cone Wars Season one.

1:21 Cool. We could say that if you want it or we can, we can. We could also say, hey, look who's here Loo? Can we go with us? Do you have? I was going to add some descriptors on there. First actor, Oh yes, screenwriter, screen rack On. Stone Cold Fox Marto, Hello, thank you Ford. Boy of the awesome comedy scene as it were. It's true. You see someone rolling around on a motorcycle and a hot leather jacket and one hundred and ten degree weather, that's gonna be Mark Girchak maybe.

2:07 Yep, always headed out to make out point to look at the sun. Mark is the subject of many a crush. It's true. So I've heard. I wish thought I had heard the tea directly, but I have heard people. No one told Mark, No one told you people. There's just like I like how the secondary godsip. It's like people will have crushes and then people are talking about the crushes that other people haven't there. Well, the real secret is that we're the ones. We've had crushes. Anybody was in the past. It's too late now, it's too late. We missed our chances. We're like ships love Kenny, I were both in love with you.

2:53 Well it's mutual because I'm in love with you all. It's so great. Anyway, pretty sh at this entire love fest. But before we get too further into all of it, why don't we go ahead and read the synopsis for both of these episodes for folks that are not watching along and are playing the home game. Yeah, I guess I will go ahead, start, I will start, and. You do it. You do you? My man, my boy, my boy, my sweet, my sweet. Uh. The Cloudminders, of Course first aired February twenty eighth, nineteen sixty nine. Director Judd Taylor. Story by David Gerald and Oliver Crawford, telplay by Marca Arman. Uh And reading this review from Joan Crosby and her syndicated column TV Scout, Joan writes for its Waning Days, Star Trek comes up with a script that is relatively simple and understandable, even within its own futuristic concept. The Enterprise travels to a planet on an emergency mission where the crew must obtain an to a deadly plague. Kirk and Spock arrived during a slave revault and find that they cannot get the much needed antibody. Okay, that's it. Who wrote that? Joan Crosby from her syndicated colun TV Scout as ran in the Delaware County Daily Times serving Harrisburg, Pennsylvania, on February twenty eighth, nineteen sixty nine.

4:25 Good for you, Joan, that's antemporary synopsies from the time period. Yeah, I kiddy's really good at that. I just find synopsis from. It helps that Star Trek is incredibly written about the show. For for me and Clone Wars, it is much more difficult to find anyone talking about. It, which reminds me, I totally forgot to watch the Felony Zy. I watched the Foloniesih, Mark, We'll have to hear all about the Felonies. It's like the only behind the scenes stuf. We haven't boot Clone Wars truly. I just watched the episode and win red. That's all I did. And I was like, yeah, I heard your skateboard going outside.

5:06 Yeah, but I did a little all, you know. I was like, Okay, put my cab. On bag, which, to be fair, was in the shape of Dave Filoni's hat, so it really just looked like you were still wearing a Dave Faloni hat. Yeah, And I was like, I really like my skateboard. Yeah, that's good enough, I'll get back and that it's pastible. I think, really like what we really need sounds like a little kid plus, Yeah, it does. Impression. Well, I'll figure it out. I don't know what it sounds like it. It's nasy after get it. You sound like the kid that was turned into rocks from the latest episode of Very Important People.

5:47 I think that is what's happening right now. Hey, it's me. I'm taking this this phone nor class. Last night was the first night of it, and she was going through the teacher classes like a dream. She's so cool and. Cool is like mom in a movie. She's playing I'm a Stone's mother and The Amazing Spider Man and she's also has Bo Burnham's mother and and the show is that he did Zach Stone. Yeah, she's and she's just gray. She's just like such a cool just like I don't know, I can already tell him, like I love this. And she was going through the architect types of film noir and there's like one of them is like innocent bystanders, you know, and it's like the innocence And I just was like, question, could there ever be children? She's like, there are never really kids in the movies. And I'm like, but good there, And I'm like the rest of the night. At little intervals, i'd be like, it's me and nishin kidd asle Sorry.

6:50 I just really like playing oh man, I don't know. Mark and I were talking about was earlier where it's just like you got the note of like, never play a child or an animal, and I'm like, that's all I play? Oh yeah, I woth whenever I see children that are animal being on stage in an improv show, absolutely detested. It's miserable. I love it. Well, that's that's good that you still have a joy in your life aast. And I sent a screenshot to Mark that was like Will Hines talking about how he might be he might try to stop students from being specifically talking animals, but how audience seemed to love it. So who was he to say? Anyway, this has been improv talk? What was I talking about?

7:32 Star Wars The Clone Wars? Oh? I need to do mine? Do we do mine? Okay? Star Wars the Clone Wars Liberty on right off director Rob Coleman, writer Henry Gilroy, and it was released on March thirteenth, two thousand and nine. Ha, what a good year for why I don't know. Mace Windu and his Clone Troopers aim to liberate the Ryloth capital of Lissu, but need to acquire the help of a Twilight resistance group led by Sean Sandula in order to do. So that's pretty much it. That's pretty much straightforward and what it was. Yeah, yeah, I mean, goodness, good plot. This is a good plot. That's good. Yeah, that's what The third it's the third episode of of the of the three parter. So we had started the last the last one we did was Innocence of So it started with storm over Ryloth and that's like whole like needed to I don't know if you watched the mark, but you didn't have to, but like they had a break need to break through. It's like they've had to do like each level of like separatists. It's like they did like they had to break through a blockade first and then like they actually get in onto Ryloth and then they have to like sabotage some separate weapons in there and they have to go through that. And now it's like this kind of final like getting it back from the Separatists, and you're doing such a good job on acting it out.

9:00 And I really want you to know they're my sweet little precious boy. I speaking of sweet little precious boys as our guest, as the person that is in the trademarked worse hot seat. We like to ask our guests, what the heck your histories are with both of these franchises? Where did you encounter them to begin with? Do you like them? Do you hate them? What do you think if you hated both of them? That'd be wonderful? What a hot seat I'm in? So you're of a whim lenders, guy, Oh, I haven't seen anyone. We don't need to get into it. It's fine, it's fine, it's fine.

9:47 It's fine. It's fine, it's fine. It's whim. It's wim. It's whim. Yeah, I think it is. I think it's what are we talking? Vendors made a movie that I need to watch called per Days, which apparently is about a guy who's very satisfied with his life. As a fan of just narrative theory, I want to watch that movie because, as Aspen can tell you, so often, I'm sick of movies that I'm just sick of movies period. So many movies feel that the only way to tell his story is just through conflict, or rather a conflict being meaning a character achieving a goal. But I am from belief that drama does not necessarily equal conflict. Drama doesn't even necessarily have to have change in it, but it sounds like drama here in this case might equal contrast.

10:39 I'll try. I'm much more of a fan of versus a more overt fighty word conflict. But anyways, I'm gonna write that into the show notes to your cut VIM Vendor's chat from the final episod. Why would I cut then Vendor's chat? We got to keep it high and tight, mean. Kenny, is this is it? This is the podcast. If no one's listening to this podcast and this is their first time, they need to understand that this is. The I'm going to keep bringing back VIM vendors consistently, so you have to leave it in because it's a callback every time. I'll just I'll just leave it in the footnotes just in general. Then, from my experience with these franchise, I'm I'm a Star Wars boy growing up. Yes, so sorry, Kenny, Uh.

11:30 Yeah, he famously truly hates Wars. Famously hates Star Wars. Stand up. Yeah, My folks showed me the original trilogy whenever the special editions came out, and I was like, and I was like, this is my new obsession. I was part of the Star Wars fan club. I got the magazine for like almost a decade the Star Wars. Look at this, look at this, look at this, God. Beg into it. I remember actively because I got the Star Wars entury magazine, I knew every year that all the prequels were gonna come out. And this is a real insight into who I was as a little boy, because I was eleven when Phantom Menace came out, and I did the math to be like, oh, when Revenge of the Cyst comes out, I'm gonna be seventeen and I'm gonna be too old to enjoy the toys. And I was actively sad as an eleven year old knowing I was going to be too old to enjoy the toys when I turned seventeen.

12:30 Oh wow, that's like a like an insight as a child that is existentially devastating. I just want to say I had a similar sort of thing. Do you ever, like have the book The Polar Express, Like, obviously I haven't seen this macas film because he. Wasn't rich enough to grow up in a family with books. Well, if you got the case of like you get the book and it would come with if you ever read it, there's like a bell, and the whole point is that, like, oh no, I like cry. It's like you can hear the bell when you're a kid, but it's like adults can't hear the bell. And the whole idea is that maybe like they lose the spirit of like that play in the childhood like joy of Christmas.

13:12 And so I'd like pull out the bell every year and ring it for myself just in case, and I'd be like, one day I won't be able to hear the bell anymore anyway. Chilling, But you still can hear it because you've still kept your childlike spirit. Oh my god, thank you. I lost it. I lost the bell. So that's that's you being eleven years old, being. Like, yeah, you gained the ability to trust your own eyes and ears, as opposed to what childhood teaches you to be blindly obedient to a system that is telling you do not trust your eyes and do not trust your ears, instead trust what only the leader puts in front of you. Oh no, express is a fascist nightmare.

13:53 Kinnie's the bad guy. Christmas same you were a real star Wars. You're real stars. Yeah, and then Star Trek. I always feel slightly ashamed when I talked to Star Trek fans because my introduction was was J. J. Abrams slash technically justin Lynn's trilogy. A great movie two thousand and nine, Star Trek movie, Great. Star Trek Beyond? Oh yeah, sorry? Can he has it on his list of like one of the things you watch to get into Star Trek. Sorry, and I interrupted, yeah.

14:39 No, if you're hanging around Star Trek pants, who are like, how dare you start with Star Trek? Those people are bad people. Being friends with them? So the movie is really fun. Star Trek Into Darkness. That's a bad time. That's bad. It is a movie. Sure, is a movie, bad. Movie written by a NI eleven Truther? What fact. Fact nine to eleven Truthers are fact nine? Yes? Did you know that nine eleven Truthers exist? Can't mount still be? Yeah? But other than those films, I have taken a run at Next Generation like three times. I keep getting like five or six episodes in and then I lose it.

15:25 I lose the momentum. You're starting with the first season, Yeah, and. The first episode is like I assume it was special because it's like four hours long. Yeah, yeah, it's it's it's ninety minutes. Yeah, okay, famous hard to get through the first two seasons. First episode. I would say that the first episode is probably the best episode of that season. Oh yeah, I mean I have like I got like that season. Yeah, and then starting with the second episode, it goes down sharply. I cannot wait to get to it. Are n But I love Patty Stew's and I was like, I'm going to be into this.

16:08 An actor who everyone thinks is great. Take Kenny. He's just British. He's very charming, He's extremely charming. And also like his theater work, yeah sure, great, wonderful, outstanding. But you watched like his TV and movie work. If he was American, he'd just be like an actor. Does the accent get everybody? I think the accent gets everybody? Is the accent make everybody thinking? Because he's responsible for a dune Buggy Chase and star Tegnamicis, because he loves racing cars. Patrick Stewart, you're talking.

16:56 About Patrick Stewart. Literally, my rose, I genuinely thought you were talking about someone named Patty stews And I was like, you saying to me Kenny Patrick Stewart is an extraordinary. Actor's an extraordinary actor. Interns of his like his state work. Okay, yeah, but like I s fail insane right now? The delayed reaction realizing who we were talking about and then having a violent reaction to. Tell me where I'm wrong, counselor tell me where I'm wrong, counselor. Will not accept stand down, lawyer. I don't accept your case.

17:39 You should accept my case. I've been a judge for ten years in this district. It's true, and I'm I'm saying you gotta go. But like, in what pieces that are not Star Trek or x ment movies, have you watched Patrick Stewart been like. Pretty fabulous? I just say starting, But I mean, like, why why did those not count? Because they don't? All right? What do you remember mem Logan? Like that was extraordinary? That film? Oh wow? What if he was sleepy all the time. I can't believe. I can't believe you're a hotache is Patrick Stewart isn't actually good? He just has an accent.

18:24 I think it's true because he effortlessly, just like Latter day Morgan Freeman, who is able to sleep walk through so many latter day Morgan Freeman who shows up and is like, I'll tell the white guy with the gun what to do, and I'll get that check and I'll be able to chill out. Which what you're talking about it or power too, because that too? Yeah, for sure, for sure. Okay, we don't have to get into it. We don't have to get into it. So we don't have to get into it. We don't have to get into we don't. Have to get into it. So Mark, your introduction to Star Wars was the special editions? Have you seen the original unaltered trilogy since then? I don't know that you've always been a special edition kid.

19:11 Well, my I think my introduction was actually the like the original unaltered original trilogy, right I think, And I don't remember. Yeah, probably probably like if they are your parents and they own them, and it was like pre ninety seven. Yeah, they had faces on the cover. Yeah, they have faces on the cover. I remember. They always started with something some guy going to original trilogy one last time. Definitely, yep, that's definitely it. Yeah, definitely saw the original. I've seen the prequels, seen the sequels. The only show I have seen is. And Or Well, I mean you picked the best one, That's.

19:54 What I heard. And I didn't want to watch that one for like a year or two, and Peo were like, it's the best thing. I understand. Hm, it's truly great. It's truly great. If you want to talk about rebellion, yeah, and we will talk about rebellion starting. No, these episodes are really good. Both these episodes are really good. Mark. Do you think both these episodes are really good? Yeah. We got to get through the rest of the episode in five minutes. Mark, what do you think do you think? Go? Go? What do you do? You disagree with us? I enjoyed them, but maybe not as much as y'all did, based on the one sentence I've heard you speak. So far, Oh my god, oh my god. Great, oh, outstanding, because you have no familiarity really with you Rachel series. Oh and then also, had you watched Clone Wars before?

20:41 Yeah, like, uh, next generation. I've taken a run at Clone Wars when never got very far. I saw the like, is it just called the Clone Wars? The movie? Yeah? That had baby job. Ah. Wow, good for you, you know, thank you. Thank you, thank you. And I watched the Genity Tartakovski series oh, so I feel like I was biased against this version initially. Interesting this is this is actually Kenny. There's that episode, the episode with Mace in the Tartakovski version where you just like, is it is it? Actually? Is it? Rylof in that one too, like is this the Clone Wars like version of that?

21:23 Or I don't think okay, I don't play it with like a bunch of like a big meadow. Yes it is, Yes, it is. Okay, Big Hammer and it's very similar. And they are that's right, the Big Hammer ship, and they're like writing they're writing like a weird little kangaroo emo. I don't know, only Australian creatures. So oh my god, sorry, yeah, but okay, sweet, that makes sense. You've never right, so you're not in the position not to be like this is why you don't like it, but like this means that you haven't had like two years ago watching your original series and being like this is this teaching you how to watch the show, or Clone Wars being like watch where it's come from, where we.

22:14 And even y'all being like this is part of a trilogy of episodes. I'm not like that makes a lot of sense about that because I was like, I just dropped you straight into and I was like, I vaguely that seems vaguely right from when I used to watch I did. I did watch this show with my partner Heidi Cute, and she also has not really watched Clone Wars before, and with that intro, she was like, oh no, I don't like this. I don't like this. This is bad, which is the exact same feeling that I had and you know, still have, to a degree that has been much lessons considering that I've been watching this now for months.

22:59 Yea, the intro of the Clone Wars like a little. Like they want and are going through the machine. Then the machine happens to have droids. The droids are capturing ryle Off and tapping off all of their little tales. I like the news. I like the news real opening, it's very fun. I don't like it. I think it's bad. Well, it's not a newsreel. It's a propaganda propaganda like it's like it's like it's like news from the front. But there's like but that's extra textual analysis. It's it's because it's appropriating esthetics. I mean, we're literally talking about a war. We're talking about battles in which any type of war, especially one that is kind of effectively a civil war across the galaxy of cultire war as civil clone war, because it's the literal separatists from a republic like you were going to have like inherent to kind of war stories that kind of we're we're the one putting ourselves out there to be the goodies. You know, they don't do it like they're you know, it's not truly like they're you know how the beginning of the ruine of the Seth is like they're heroes on both sides. No, but kind of like in this show, this show sometimes you'll see like the Republic leaving people behind. But if we're keeping that in mind as if to say, we want to keep you on our side of the republic, we're the correct ones versus the separatists, you've putting out more propaganda and to keep people feeling encouraged.

24:29 Just what it is, Yeah about Mark loves the intro. I thinks that's the best part of this episode of The Clone Wars. To be clear, by the way, I don't when you say extra textural, I just assumed that's what it was. I don't think I read that anywhere anyway. Extra textual in the sense that you understand it through cultural osmosis. What are what is? What is media? That's kind of everything. I can't tell that Kenny and I are going to be yelling at each other, and I don't know. I like both of these episodes. Before emotional right now. But the emotional piece, but the reason that you're able to okay, So I don't. I don't know. Your reactions are just like, that's just media, to which I'm like, yes, but my emotions make me want to double down because I'm convinced I'm right, which is not necessarily correct.

25:20 I mean, I don't think you're not right. It's the weird thing. I think it's like such a weird, great yarn ball of things. I mean, it is also Star Wars pretty fresh from the prequel, so you can't be entirely sure what the intention is versus George Lucas's weird execution ideas. It did feel very like early two thousands watching, and I was like, you can feel the like extra textual elements of the world. It didn't help that the entire thing was scored by all American rejects. It was like as soon as like he started going in with his lights, they was like Shuman, it was like swing sweetly and you're like, wow, look at mace Go. No, I get it. I'm just being defensive because I love it.

26:12 I think it's fun, and I don't. I don't like I want I want people to give things a chance. Yeah. I dove both of these episodes. I'm a little cooler on the Clone Wars app this week versus the Star Trek episode, which I think the Star Trek episode is like Gangbusters, feeling like season one season two of Star Trek. Again, that's the other thing Mark, just for reference here, there's there is that. It's like season one of Star Trek is like, oh oh we're cooking with gas, and season two you're like, we're still some gas still here. Yeah yeah yeah, and the season three you're like, oh boy, oh no reasons.

26:56 It's like they left the gas on but they weren't cooking, and so only everyone's like on fire. Everyone's on yeah, everyone is gas. Someone like someone's like about to like light a match and everyone's like no, like that Australian No, how would in Australian say no? If you want to subscribe to The Patriot. What uh, hey, Aspen, what is an Australian's favorite conjunction?

27:39 I don't know what is it? Mark, I don't know. No, mm hmmm that's I don't get it because it's a conjunction. And are. Well conjunction junk? What's your function? So this episode is like a beautiful like drink water. It felt great coming into it fresh. I was like, I'm enjoying this. Yeah, yeah, yes, Kenny. Oh, I'm just excited to talk about these episodes. I'm excited to talk about them too.

28:20 Good, good, hot episodes. Can we just say a thing real quick? We just like establish a sort of like norm here of reality. Yeah, it's November nineteenth that we're recording this, not that long ago. Yeah, well not that long ago. Yeah, I know people are going to know two weeks ago exactly, I drank too much. We got really sad, and an absolute uh indicted, impeached criminal rapist was elected to the presidency. Yeah. And I feel like conversations around Star Wars and Star Trek cannot be separated from the feelings of that, do you know what I mean?

29:04 Yeah? Because art is contextual. Well, we are anything that we consume, it's going to be affected by current events because art cannot live in a vacuum. It's not possible, or else it would lose all meaning, which. Which is interesting because earlier you were saying, Mark, you're like who the clone Wars feel so like two thousands, which I assume has to do with like like I rack and which absolutely you're on top of it, just in the same way that the original series Star Wars is about Vietnam. Also, I do need to point out that, yes, Kenny is a very eloquent uh. Diagnosis of that did immediately counteract his earlier refutal of outside elements influencing a piece of art.

30:01 Would you want to say to that, Oh no, you got me? Yeah, I done got got so sorry. But by yourself. So that's the best way to get got The only one smart enough was yourself. It's true. Oh boy, it's true. Yeah. So I just want to bring that up and just like do a level set because I'm gonna guess we're all having a hard time. It's extremely awful. My anxiety has gone through through the roof, right It's it's been extremely miserable, and I dare say I'm attempting to be very easy on myself because the fight will just get even more intense as the years weigh on.

30:47 Yes, wax, yeah, and I you know it's finning. I was talking to someone about it because we've had also for additional context, Mark like, Mark, you're so great. Sometimes we'll talk about, like Kenny and I were like, what is appealing about Star Wars and Star Trek? And I think I often hear a lot and Katy, you can tell me if I'm like way off, A lot of people are like, you know, what I really love about Star Trek is that it does show hope for a potential future, which can be extremely helpful when you're like everything is a bingal fucking mess right now right. And I've often said I'm in kind of a space where the story of Star Wars of like the Little Guy and the Rebellion, because you're in the midst of it, appeals to me more like you were saying, Mark that like you've seen and or and I think that's one of the best types of stories that Star Wars has, of like on the ground rebellion, and so I think that often is a thing that also Star Wars appeals to me, and I think that's still true, and I felt it, and I very angrily was like stating it.

31:59 But the little small part of me is having a little bit of a not a shift. But I wonder if it's like I have to be like you have to like practice hope, So there is like something I wonder if there's like a shift for me happening. Recognizing fully that the utopic future of Star Trek came after horrors that are detailed in DS nine and like a World War three and so on and so forth. So anyway, I feel like my view has always been like the almost the opposite, but just because I feel like so much of at least early Star Wars, like you know, original trilogy, is very like mythic in the sense of like literal myth and it's monolithic and it's good and it's evil and it's you know, So it feels like to me, it was always so nice to have that clear distinction of like, oh, we know what the right thing is and we know what the best you know, and so it kind of had the option where is Star Trek? To me, always, even just my tangential connection with it, was like, oh, these are real people and they have to deal with like human stuff.

33:04 So I got down to that like messier version of things. Oh interesting, oh interesting, Yeah, Like it's more complex than just like the modern myth. I mean that is the allure of star Trek for me. Even though they are dealing with all these lofty, high folutine sci fi ideas, at the end of the day, there are still dudes that are drinking coffee or ladies or non maminary faults, never just drinking coffee and being like it isn't all the star Trek and hard. However, as I have gotten older, it feels like villains that live within a gray area is charitable because villains that live in grays don't exist. I feel like villains are outright villains, and we need to stop having media that interesting bothers to find any sympathy or empathy.

33:58 Interesting pan And this is I think this just goes to show that it's like especially there's like different seasons of your life personally, when you might be like managing, and then there's also like how the different current events and how that contact affects your perception of a thing and how you relate to the thing, how fascinating. I mean, I feel, as I've said before and I'll say it again till the cows come home. I feel like, folks, I feel like anyone that identifies on them as someone that is not the right wing has manipulated well intentioned people's empathy in order to manipulate the status quo for themselves, which is extremely unfortunate, thereby putting our marginalized folks and folks that are truly in trouble on the back foot over and over and over again and having to apologize for being the victim. And that's really unfortunate. That sucks, and it's completely unfair.

34:56 Yep, yes, and you know, I'm sorry. I don't mean to like also take us away from I think that these episodes the reason, well one, I think we just needed to acknowledge it. This is our first episode we're recording since the election. But also, like, these episodes are about rebellion, Like they're about inequality, and they're about explicitly about inequality and about the abuse of power, and like, yeah, both explicitly so and the other ring of people, the exploitation of resources and labor, both very explicitly, And I do just want to like note I saw this is a brag, but I saw the uh live reading of Revenge of the Sith over the weekends, which say friend at the pod Patrick Cottner organizes, and it was super fab and it was there was like lines that were being said from Revenge of the Sith that the entire audience, which is collectively grown because of just like how clear like clear of like a parallel there was. And I'm like, we can, we can make fun of the politics of the prequels, but like ultimately, the manipulation of media outlets of a political bodies to kind of like undermine like in a way that's almost fucking stupid, is like actually

36:27 so real and relevant of just like what does it look like to hold that power and it's and for people to just be taken by it because they would much rather go after a strong man and a sense of safety and authority because that safety was like the danger was fabricated, fabricated, thus destroying people's lives in the process, Like and so people would actually pursue that and vote for that, you know, placing this person in a position to power in order to secure that safety, whether or not it's real, you know, whether there is a threat or not right, So I thought it was wild and I just wanted cool. Well, it's also been like a recurring historical motif. Weirdly that kind of synks up with all of the Star Wars trilogies being released, like the late seventies, in the early eighties, early two thousands, and then late oh geez, have these moments of like turbulence and things.

37:25 Well as we also do have the hellay, as we've noted before, the kind of cycle that's almost like reflected in the production of the movies of the Neoliberald of fascism cycle that also just seems to happen in the world. That's funny that it happens in the world as well. But everything reflects the world in which it is made, and. The world is it reflects the art. It changes based on the art. Yeah, yeah, I just want to kind of noted because yeah, you're right, like this is getting this is less feeling, This is less feeling. The last episode that we watched we actually talked about the explicit kind of it was uh sorry, Innocence of ryel Loth.

38:15 It's very much it feels very much like people in the Middle East, like American soldiers in I Rock, and like there's even racism that's involved inside of it, and like oh look quick and change, you know. But so that's clearly like that's the context for that. And we're kind of continuing less here. So this idea we're talking about, you know, victory and ryeloth of what is the role of especially something like the American government, if we're using that as a reflection of coming in and like your responsibility to like secure the safety of space. Not only kind of talking about I mean Mark, we're going to talk about last week's episodes. Uh sorry, yeah, the game, but the nature both having somewhat of a pandurin nature about wow, they're so naive, one of those naivites in this in the Clone Wars episodes kind of being lionized and in the way to eat and being like they were so naive, while also kind of celebrating the status quo I'll be our racist clause kind of changing, but at the same time just being like it just needed to meet one good one. The status quo ain't all that bad, sure, And then in these two episodes, rather I guess our resistance within the Clone Wars is able to talk with the status quo, and it's able to make some sort of agreement with the status quo in good faith and in Star trek uh Kirk takes

39:50 some pretty darn radical interventionalist action, pulling an oops all imperialism by by by forcing both leaders to dig within the mindes uh and luckily it works out pretty well because they're able to sniff the gas. Yeah, yeah, interesting, yeah, right, Like it's the sort of in both cases, it is kind of extraordinary that it's like here's an outside active force coming in and doing like being like here there is an injustice, Like obviously with like the Star Wars episode, it's like we also need to this is part of our greater war, and these twilets are collateral for those war and.

40:37 It's pronounced twiles. It's pronounced tollix. Twilex twilets, twilet twiles, twilex. Twilets twilex twilex. They are collateral at this. But yeah, the sort of statement of like intervening effectively, like your people are being murdered and we need help from this resistance force, but you need to be doing this to save your own people. Well like a sorry continue. No, no, you you said, please, Mark, I'm just I'm just a foolish person. I'm fool.

41:21 You know. I thought it was interesting that like both episodes like feature, you know that the heroes coming in and like basically like bartering this not bartering, it's what I'm for, you know, they bargain for like both sides and like to kind of find this piece between these two factions. But in both episodes, they don't do it because it's like the right thing to do. They do it because they have an end goal that they need the agreement to happen for. I was to be like really in Star Trek, but then I was like, you're right, he like needs that ship. They need to get that. They need to get that the thing to take it to the place z Night to save the people Gas z Night Gas.

42:08 Counter like plague thing. But to counteract with the other thing. Which episode starting, it's like, oh, we're gonna get a botanical plague. That sounds cool, and then they're like, no. You're gonna get Slavery just happened, And it's true that it did. It did, and but this one was better, Well yes, no it wasn't. We liked this one's better. This one is better than is good. This one is much better. In terms of like saying interesting stuff. Yeah, a lot of in terms of being good. I think this episode of Star Trek was better.

42:51 In terms of like actually like being art. TV TV is art. TV is art. Someone asked me yesterday if I didn't have to work in nine to five, what would I do? And I was like, probably just make art, and I meant make like improv and acting art. And he was like, oh yeah, I could see you being like an artist who seem very like creative and visual. And I was like, no, from no, listen, it's art. It's all art. But also the people in stratos that's all they do.

43:32 Okay, I take naps. Okay, if you asked me and. Art combined art, So how can you take a nap if you're not awake? Oh? You a philosopher at the beginning of this episode, a guess like poetry. So if they rhy, this is bringing up a great point, right, which is like, so this this future utopia version. Of utopia, Zutopia with a freaking centrist piece of propaganda, terrible movie se Utopia piece of it's such a centrist piece of propaganda. That movie came out, people were like, actually, a great movie. It's very relevant about race. And I watched that. I was like, you don't see the same movie that I did.

44:33 Calm down, Bellhoven. I find that the semolism of the Fox is like Jesus and the hot one is like it you'll actually have to bleep that one. I don't. It was. It was an accurate impression. Definitely something that Paul Berhoman would says. So funny. It's gonna be even funnier with the bleep in this The utopian star Trek is possible because of it being in a post resource world. Right. The idea is that they're you could just replicate anything. So what's the point of money? What's the point? What am I just what?

45:27 Technically we're not at replicating? Okay, sorry, just because I watched Lower Decks and there's like an episode where they're on an episode where they're on the planet. That's just they're on an episode, I'm like, okay, it's really like listen so well, I guess in our extra textual understanding. Of it, like oola, who are you me? Yeah? Right? See in this case, like this is this is like an accurate representation like this world these cloudheads like this world here is that they can have the life they want where they Yeah, they don't have to work, and all they have to do is just like we are and music and just being a Juntu sweet lady with the Christina Aguilera dirty air up top, and like they can just do these things right like because other people that they actively are, like these little dumb dumbs are literally doing the physical manual labor below them on the planet below to get them the resources they need.

46:33 And therefore like the money right, ah, is what I say to that, which is extremely right now and all time and forever. It's just the everything right now, so down to the like the poor treatment, like the abusing terms around things like evolution to excuse treatments of people. Right. And of course it's revealed that this gas and its pure form actually like decreases like cognitive ability and like increases emotional like probably like enlarges themagdala or something. I didn't say that, That's what I decided because I am a social or fingering. Sorry I'm talking so much.

47:21 I think there's I mean, I'm thinking about that in relation to food, deserts and just yeah, it's it's the same thing, right well. And they blame it on there like it's evolution. They're just little dumb dumbs and this is what they are, like, this is their lot in life. It's very fucking like breathing the world actually, instead of it being like fabricated, it's just like but they can. World a book sur is. Curious and they uh, and they can excuse this behavior. But like that, like a lot of the is that we have literally excused slavery is through the same bad arguments around like false scientific arguments around evolution. And I just did air quotes are for people who are listening right, like I misunderstanding of it as opposed to something like food.

48:15 Does it you're talking about where it's like environmental factors which are going to affect your ability to say, move forward in life because you didn't get enough food, because you don't have access to the education, or you're in a constant state of high corsol. Right anyway, you don't. Do clean air right because clean air is a scarcity. Asked and remind me, where where do you Where do I live? Where I live a notoriously clean air city? Oh my god, yeah, truly Los Angeles that they call it the city of being able to see to the ocean. The other day I could. It's because it rained and it like cleared out the slog.

48:59 And tell me see your picture of l A. I'm like, oh, look at that beautiful fog. And I'm like, that's Wait. Aspen sends you pictures of La. Do you want some? I want some? Wait, you send me pictures. I'll send you a picture right now. Let me send you a picture. I'm sorry to talk to Aspen about is whatever we talk about, which is a lot unbelievable. We only talk about LA and this smog in it. Okay, Okay, I just texted your pictures from Hike. You're welcome. Oh you don't have Instagram except you have our Instagram. You were check words pods. Yeah, but it's none on my phone because I did.

49:40 I did Instagram reels, uh on behalf of my partner, Heidi, because she's frequently on Instagram reels, and so she sends me reels and sometimes I just have to yeah, and so I hopped on there. I lost an hour of my day and I was just like, nope, I gotta get this off my phone now. Okay, hear a better literally, Mark Design Instagram. Thank you so much. Oh my god, Jesus, Chris, Sorry, I feel like i've so anyway, I hear what you're saying, which is that because I live in a city that has a lot of particulates in the air, my cognitive development is delated. Market know what city.

50:22 I've seen? I've seen lots of pictures. But what is the asked me, if you could clarify what city that you possibly. Stop me? Sexy young and sexy sexy gung And okay. That's again, it is the sexy Gungan of California. Notoriously, I believe Arnold Schwarzenegger was the first one that coined that phrase. That's true. Back in ninety six, I. Should have said Great Davis. I would have been a better reference, such a dunce. Great Davis, here's the governor before Arnold Schwarzenegger. They notoriously had a recall election which allowed Arnold Schwarzenegger to then become presidents because no one had faith in Great Davis's ability to leave this great state of California.

51:12 California. Wait, let me go back to what she said. You're a dunce, much like how they considered them to be dunces on the planet. They called them traga lights. At first, I thought they was saying trogolodytes weirdly, and they do reference. Which is fascinating. There's so many questions. There's just so many questions because if we're troglodytes exists in this culture, what does that mean in terms of is this a human colony? What does this mean? But don't I did wonder because the trog lights, I was like, are they supposed to be aliens? Because they're one percent human? But they have long hair, long sexy hair.

51:57 And then they wear little visors and there was the only thing that was like. They wear a little Captain Cold type A visors. They wear them because it's so dark in the mines. That they right is not minus. It's like an remember that remember that reference that. I just made minus not minus from Hot Fuzz Galaxy Quest. It's usually Hot Fuzz a. Great movie because they stumble upon, well we'll cover it in our Galaxy Quest versus Baseball's episode, but they stumble upon because they're trying to get another Berrillian sphere for the spaceship, and so Alan Rickman and the crew stumble upon this group of miners, but they look like children, and so they're like, yeah, they look like kids, and Alan Rickman goes minus not minus.

52:48 Incredibleman is the name? I give it a coffee place. If I don't want to give my real name and they're like, what's your name? I always say Guy Fleman. Have you seen a Galax question? Yeah, it's just been a while. I've only seen and they're not called aliens termites. Anyways, we're not here for a galaxy quest. Too bad, this is a quest balls each week. Yeah. Well, not to just keep bringing up the fact that Aspen lives in California, but the genesis of this episode was actually influenced by the class stratification that original series writer David Gerald found. It was influenced by specifically he be he living in Beverly Hills or not in Beverly Hills but in Los Angeles at the time. Yeah, was like really frustrated about the fact that there are those folks that are literally living higher than folks that are living in Watts, who are having to drive into Beverly Hills and take care of literally everything and then drive back to Watts. That very specific thing, and so that was the genesis of this episode, and it was originally going to be Kirk, Spock, McCoy, Chekov and Aurura Aura yet again not getting any time, getting some screen.

54:13 Time person that rules it's true. And then instead of kind of you know, caves, they would have crashed in a mid twentieth century slum. There is trash and litter in the street, a gaunt eyed children stare at them. Poverty and despair are very apparent. Instead of trick lights, they would have been known as mannis, otherwise known as manual laborers and aspen get ready, this would have been sick for centuries. The Mannies have mined the di lithium crystals. Dude, this would have been better. Isn't that a Star Wars thing?

54:53 No, that's a Star Trek thing. That's the thing that makes the ship go. Oh my god. That would have been so oh because I live for like time travel shit that if they found out that like the reason they can do what they're doing now is because of this summering in the past, oh, I would have died. And then the end of the episode, David Gerald says as featured in These Are the Voyages Season three by Mark cushman'zus. Last morn in the they interviewed him, and David Gerald said, in the story, we solve the immediate problem of getting some kind of cooperation between the two cultures. But as we were leaving, Kirk says, well, we've helped another planet and McCoy says, yes, but how many children will die in the meantime?

55:37 Oh Jesus, I. Do feel like that's kind of where the episode, which I liked left off, was it there were a lot of things they obviously had to do story wise in order to be able to convene me kind of wrap up a lot of plot threads right where it's like, oh, there has to be a reason that these people are like not as intelligent or whatever. It has to be something that can be solved immediately. Yeah, But I did like how they left the like cliffhanger, just like we're going to have to have talks once my people gain their intelligence back, and they just kind of like left it being like it's not a neat bow. It was like, Oh, I like that. It was like intense too, Like that that dude, the cloud guy was like, don't fucking come back. Rage, like absolute rage. He hated Kirk so much. I don't know. Yeah, Like it was basically like if you come back, like this is for us to figure out, you know, And it's interesting too because it's great, it's interesting. It's a very like we were just talking about this, like you know, it's interference, but it is. It's clearly for a reason, like you said, like there is lots of reasons why because they need to get this material, and also there is huge perceived injustice. I mean, there's a huge injustice here and there are people literally fighting against conditions. I almost like, I mean, I do like this sort of the calling to the idea that we're going to find any reason we can to say that the people that

57:10 we are making work in these spaces and do this manual labor are not as smart as us, is not as good as us. So I think it's actually very I thought it was very thoughtful and interesting to actually have it be a physical thing, right because to related to current events. Who are the people that do our manual labor? Who are the people that pick our food? Right? It's typically migrants. It's immigrants, whether they are documented or no. And you find reasons to say these people are not as good as you. Some people say that what's up? I do like though, to take the time to be like obviously the like city councilor or whatever, I can't remember. His role was that brow that had an active animosity for the truck lights, whereas they also should like his daughter being like, I don't know, I have anima. I don't hate them, but also they are worse than us.

58:03 Just that's the way it is. And it wasn't this like hatred from her perspective, but it was still as harmful, if not more harmful. Yes, Mark, Yes, this sort of like I mean, we're talking about earlier the naivete and then she lives in blissful or possibly willful ignorance, especially considering that uh Vana is like within her sphere of influence. But drock scene is not extending, extending in olive branch because just assuming that this is the way, because that's the danger of a set status quo. I think we just kind of get settled into the thing. But luckily the neutral starfleet can come in and be like, hmmm, pretty fishy, it's pretty fishy. There's a thing that's going on.

58:56 There was, Yeah, there was a moment in the episode. I just remember again as I kind of alluded to the obviously like in order to fit this entire parable in fifty minutes or whatever, they do have to there have to be just like easy outs. But there was a moment about halfway through the show where Vana gets captured and they're like torturing her to figure out where this the yeah and kirking them or it's like that's horrible, that's not worth it, And the city councilor douche guy is like, but if I have to torture her to save like an entire planet full of people, And I was like, there is a really interesting discussion of push pool of like, you know, if there isn't like a easy out solution that isn't torture, it's like where does this, you know, where do these things start to go and where those conversations go. It kind of reminded me of like a like a Battlestar Galactica reboot scenario.

59:57 Mark Ranchow, this is Star Trek versus Listen to our Battlestar Galactico versus Star eight episode. You can listen earlier in our catalog. Mark you must be I thought, was I'm so sorry? Oh, my god, Wow, that's bye. I mean Star Trek can vacillate between we have to save all these people or we won't let one person die for the sake of all of us, depends depends this week. It is, uh, we can't let one person suffer at the hands to save all these people. But luckily it all works out. Don't interrogate it too much.

1:00:38 Right, I mean, we could look at us Kirk's like, when has torture ever worked? Just coming from a practical perspective, it doesn't. It truly tests the Steady Show. It just doesn't because people will just start to say whatever, just right. So, but yeah, no, there is a sort of you know what that's making me think of, though, is I'm not saying that like protest is putting, say, people's lives in danger, like innocent people's lives in danger. But you know when there are protests and they're like, protest is doing what it should do, which is actively disrupt the flow of life, because we're trying to draw attention to the injustice of a thing, and that's not going to work unless we are doing we're kind of actively doing that. And I feel like there's a similar sort of vibe there, which is just like, well, you're hurting people by protesting for your literal rights in your literal life, Like you're the selfish one because you're hurting these other people. And in this case, Vaughn is like like they had they're like she actively says that. She's like she they think that the enterprise is there to terrorize them, right, So she's so even from her perspective, she's just like, this isn't actually like she is not saying it is like, this is your goal, right, she like, and also she's going to do They're going to do whatever they can to right infiltrate to try to get these rights right, whether whatever that means.

1:02:05 Yeah, I love that she like and no point takes like the quote unquote like high road right where I feel like somebody shirts would be like she's gonna trust Kirk, She's going to do this, and the whole time she's like, Nope, you're the enemy, You're the bag, like I'm looking at for my people. I love that bitch. I love her. She was frankly the hottest lady that's ever been on except for her on Star Trek and her vibe. Oh except for that one lady from Troyannis or whatever anyway on Troy. Yeah, yeah, she could step on me repeatedly. WHOA. But at the same time, if Kirk is our protagonist because he's the enlightened centrist, that it's coming along and being like, isn't that situation a little bit silly? Kind of pulling a sorry Mark, let that be your last battlefield, albeit in a much less severe form by going the split sides.

1:03:00 Black and white, white and black yet. And the whole episode hammering it south of being like, aren't both science stilly? Oh my god? But then I believe this episode is able to kind of pull out of that by it does putting putting them. It's the conditions of the gas that that that the folks that are living on Stratos have been inflicting on them, and all of them, all of them suffer for it. Which is it is? I don't It just felt really great to be like Kirk is getting affected by it, because so many times Kirk is just like the love of my chip, the love of my ship will pull me through. Yeah, no one, no one can, No one is invincible from this.

1:03:48 I like that he didn't realize it either, because as an audience wim where I was like, I don't think he's like I was in the same boat where you're like he's not being affected. You're like, oh he is. Yeah, which is great. See where he's like, it's like he's because at that point he's like trapped counselman dude and Vana in these minds with him, and there's like this shot of him and you could already tell he's starting to like lose it because like he's standing there like this, like his hand like the guns like right here, like like a little like a little squirrely dude from a gangster film who's just like, hey. What you doing? You got it? I guess right, I'm a film noir. It's like his favorite episode of Star Trek Piece of the Action.

1:04:30 God, damn, I don't like that. It's a great episode. Not that good. I don't like, Oh, gosh, dang it, what what I just forgot that? I forgot to research the French Resistance? Interesting? Oh for Star Wars. Which I feel like, is it is good enough of time to segue into talking about the Star Wars plant, but also like yeah, look, come on, yeah, they're pulling all the time from World War Two. Aesthetics starting from the very first Star Wars the motion picture. And now the Twilets are French. They're French. Now they're French. Now they're French.

1:05:12 Now the accents distracted they are they are. I don't know which point they're officially made French. I think the thing is that, like twilet's very infrequently talk like an original Star Wars, they just they I feel like they typically are marginalized and slaved people, especially female twilets, like. Yeah, well, because episode one, one of Palatine's helpers is a twilek right, and he seems to be an American sounding. Dude, You're right, he is. But then as they covered in the felony zone, George was like he George wants all races to sound the same and be reflective of the exact same culture. So now all Twilics are French. Now they're French.

1:06:01 Now, thing are they like genuinely intentionally coated French? Here they are? Yeah? I mean they and from here on out, except from here on out. They speak and so and even and I'll tell you a little bit and Rebels Star Wars, Star Wars Rebels Hara Sindula So, daughter of spondulamp Shomps Shompson. You know you need Shandula. I know you need you need New York Champson Doula so Harris Soindula who's part of this. She doesn't have an accent because she's like neutralized it. And then when she goes back home and is like talking to her dad and talking to her family, the French accent comes back.

1:06:47 And like when she gets like mad, the French accent comes back, which is very actually extremely relatable, like as the person who like when I would talk to my mom, so the deeply southern accent, and you know. Completely, I did not even clock that they had French accents. It's when I was like those the accents were distracting, I. Was, ye, they're they're French accents retrospect. I did not think about it at the time. At the time, and yeah, they're speaking another language and not speaking French, like they're speaking in tilic language, right Loftian thing. But they do. They all have this and that is who they are.

1:07:28 They are French now. They are French now. They are French now. Before I asked you a question mark, you're right about like the World War two aesthetics, so but I still think, like, especially with this, this is more than like back to like resistance fighting like, which I think is actually more in line with Middle East like Afghanistan rock war stuff. That's That's interesting because even though the Twills are coded as French with their accents at the same time all as one of our one of science fiction's favorite things, which is the music vaguely Middle Easter, Yeah. Which is just lethering in general.

1:08:09 Sometimes I do wonder if you, like, we're going to make them French as an intentional choice to be like, we're going to code them as like a white culture so that we can't be accused of anything else. Interesting. Interesting now, as you and I both know that that would never stop George Lucas. That's true. George would not give a ship, as we know since Neumoidians have very specifically Asian accents. He doesn't give a ship. And one time a cousin of Java the Hut sounded like, that's not racism, that's just.

1:08:54 Home Zero and the Clone Wars film that you saw and loved are currently wearing a T shirt up. Yeah, that you've got will these posters everywhere you've a tattooed on your chest. Yeah, it's all the way down to the navel. Wow, job as child who that commitment a soka A tube time. It's weird how prominent and tube top thing is. Mark. I prefer that you put your shirt back on for that one. I'm gonna leave it off for the rest of the pot and I'll show you my back tattoos at the end. So, Mark, how did you as a Star Wars fan? Yes, Wars, you love Star Wars, Having like watched a little bit of clon Wars, you said you probably you said you probably might not have liked this as much as us.

1:09:46 But how did you find How did you find this episode? Did you find this episode? It was online? It was very easy and fine scene. I have been fun here, Oh my god, we have fun. Look at those who have thought, well, I don't know. It's one of those things where I feel like my viewing of the Star Wars episode was very much because I watched the Star Trek episode first, and so I feel like I was just like. The same way I do it me too. I don't know, So I just feel like I was kind of slammed over the head by the Stark juxtaposition of the styles of storytelling and just the pacing and the assumed the target audience, because when they Clone Wars episode end and I was just like, oh, we're done, Like oh that was a lot very quickly, and I kept waiting for it to like dig deeper as the Star Trek episode did.

1:10:45 Oh again, Yeah, I guess in this case, we have one bird, we have a we have a listener, Aaron, who is like, shouldn't you be listening to these and like, if there's going to be an arc, you listen to the whole you watch the whole arc, and we're just like now. I mean it was fully It's like I fully grasped and understood it, and it wasn't There was no moment where I was like, who is this character? It's like, yeah, I get it, it's an arc. It's not. Least would be less jarring if they didn't have the newsreel, simply because there is a reintroduction to all the things post newsreel to kind of recenterize because there's so much exposition up at the top, and then the dramatic storytelling takes charge.

1:11:29 Yeah afterwards, So so yeah, this actually I wonder if like I'll watch Star Trek pers because it's longer, and I know it's longer, so that's typically I don't know why it's like typically why I watch it first, and then I watched Star Wars, so I understand the feeling of like I just watched like fifty minutes and now I'm just watching like twenty five, and that the storytelling of the thing is so frankly concise and can be a lot more action oriented, like Star Trek will sometimes, especially in the season three, it'll be like they're like, it feels like they're filling time. Sometimes like you're just like, cool, this could have been a nice, little, tight, thirty minute aut but we can't do that. In season three of Star Trek, there will be a seven minute scene of Kirk being like, surely you can't be crazy too right. You are, oh my gosh, but surely you can't be crazy too right.

1:12:21 What The only time it's ever worked to just stay atmospheric and be like, what's happening is that one where they end up at the Okay Corral? Anyway, you should watch that episode. That's the only one I'll excuse for having a lot of like because it's very atmospheric moments of quiet spectra. Of the gun so good. The Star Trek did have like a I don't know, like ten minutes and did have a sequence in which Spock just recapped everything had just been happening and like a weird like dream. That's like it never happened, and I was has never happened before it was. We Okay, we haven't talked about it. I'm not gonna. We shouldn't want to talk about Star Wars, but I do just want to say. I just do fight. I'll hold it all. I want you to talk about it.

1:13:02 Right No, no, no, no, talk about it when you. Get to talk about it right now. Please. I just need you to talk about it right now, or else I'm going to lose my mind. The Star Trek episodes see young and. I like that. Spock gets to have a lot of interest. Oh yeah, you're right. We can talk about that. We can talk about it later. I just like it. It's like it when it happens, it very it doesn't happen, so it's nice. Sometimes it's just devastating when it does. It's devastating every time. This time it wasn't devastating. It wasn't devastating this time anyway. So Star Wars and. Will say I was like, I was vary into the Star Wars episode almost immediately, just like a little like battle on the cliff side and all the little like there the moment when the little back of the I don't know, the troop transport drops down and the little like walkers pop up and start running. I was just like it like blew the back of my little, like five year old brain. Just like I love everything I.

1:13:58 Will say this episode. There was a moment in this episode that felt like the way I felt when I saw Phantom Menace for the first time when I was nine. There was something wild. It's like the music, wait the camera, sorry Kenny. Yes, Max wind Do breaks glass with the force. That was the coolest thing. It was really cool. What I liked about it is that Mace Window used the force and he broke it to glass. This is why I was like, is this kind of like Tartakovsky like that episode, because you know how he's like Flattens in that in this one he is like it was one of those moments where you're like, oh, that's right. That's why they talk about Mace Window as being one of the most powerful Jedi, like what he can do like they do. Yes, I just feel like that's that's the thing. Oh, Like there's something that Anakin says once like even more powerful than like Master wind Dow, like he is seen as an extremely powerful like Jedi.

1:14:59 Like it's I feel like that's I didn't. Just like the prequels a whole bunch of thought, ass man, Like there's heroes on both sides. That this episode. That's true and somehow Palpatinet return. That's not the prequels. They got paid so much money to write that line. But I hope that they at least gave to a great charity because of how much money that they they gave found an organization. They just need a reason. It's not the point of the story. That never mind, we're not talking about Rise of Skywalker.

1:15:39 That's a different point. Mace is so strong and this like he's doing things that other Jedi couldn't couldn't like break a glass, like break glass like. I do like that little stuff, Like I love the little things when you're like, oh, this is a power set and we're gonna find a little weird ways you don't see normally, like exploit it. I love them, just like I'm gonna pop the glass to get this guy. There was very cool. Oh god, so cool, so clear, there's beggar stuff, but like he doesn't feel overpowered, but he like I had chills, Like I think at one point, like I think when they nearer to the end of the episode, when they get into the city, you know it goes across. Oh oh that's what it was. Oh my god, there's this that scene. That scene where because they're on that bridge that like plasma bridge I don't know, and so that bridge can just disappear if they power it down right, they've like Trojan horsed it. Okay for me, I haven't seen this. It's one of the best things I've ever seen. Like, uh, they hide inside and like but then like the droids byd them and they pop out and they're like fight, fight, fighting, and then they turn off the bridge.

1:16:41 Listen to asp. And he throws two of the two of the clones who like he put force pushes them so they grab onto the cliff. He launches himself up, grabs on to a droid that's on his little flying flying segue, and then he launches himself over and during that entire sequence, the sound and the music just drops out. Like saving Private ryans it was so cool. So you're right the aesthetics World War two, it's like a combination of World War two like Middle East like kind of stuff for sure that but be like being like, yeah, saving Private Ryan very real. It was one of the coolest things I've seen in Star Wars, Like something about the way it was shot, like the fluidity of it, like, oh god, And again I think the sound did a lot.

1:17:41 That lack of sound was extraordinary. I was like, is this art so anyway? Yeah, the choreography, you feel like the whole episode of just like the action and the movement and the things like the whole time you were just like, I get a very good at your job because this is very dynamic. Make me very cool. And it hasn't like there's we're not that many episodes in, and the animation has gotten so much better, so quickly we. Are a bunch of episodes in because the next episode is the last episode of season one. What okay, Well, I guess in my mind, I'm like we're only in first season, like because in my mind I was like, it doesn't get until like five but it's good.

1:18:26 Like animation, the show doesn't get good until season five. You just gotta get run. Give give season five though, and even then it's like the second half fifth season. I would actually say, really is like one episode one tell you One're just one long show. Quaran could have. Directed, Quaran is the good one? In your etwo is the one that's bad? Quaran bothers to cut stuff up?

1:19:10 Oh yes, but but yes, but even then the whole movie was a big long shot. He used that to uh for success in immersion as opposed to in your etwo. We're talking about bird Man, We're talking about Birdman. Now, it's Birdman now, it's now. Where he did in Birdman was like, oh, okay, I get it. It's the after call. And then he doesn't the revinant, and I'm like, what is that? I don't like it. I don't like long takes full stop? What about? I don't like long takes? What about and irritating. Everywhere? That was cute in nineteen seventeen. I find it. It creates a distance from the distance.

1:19:56 Yeah you think so too. Yeah, it also breaks the narrative makes sense structurally, because. Really I thought it created a sense of intimacy and immediacy, Wild Kenny and I had completely opposite views of like intimacy and distance. It's interesting, Wild, Yeah, that's why you dated. It's true. It's the only reason. The only reason, the only reason. WHOA, he said, with a chuckle. He's going to kill me talking about that. That's right. What are you thinking about? What are you thinking about? I was thinking about because you've seen I saw the tvgo. Right, actually have it. I'm afraid to watch it. I'm actually afraid to watch it. I think I have to like be in a deeply like, emotionally like well state.

1:20:45 I mean this recent aesthetic of movies where I find that all of these movies are a good portion of movies that are supposedly raw and emotional, I find them quite distant. I forget what it was, but I was making the argument that those things, those films that are kind of operating sparsely and visually distant for Aspen and I forget what the example is that makes you feel immersed into specific emotionality. Meanwhile, it feels completely foreign to me. But a world that is completely wall to wall dialogue and very close up, I'm like, right, this feels familiar.

1:21:30 This feels very raw, This feels very emotional. Perhaps it's because I am I need someone to be unsettled and just kind of slap me upside the head in terms of being like it is emotion, which is entirely possible. Well except for nineteen seventeen a film, but I probably But like the other ones were talking about, I saw the TV glow we were talking about Past Lives. Oh yeah, I think those Past Lives were all of. Those films, like two of them, particularly queerness like trans Identities one of them. I feel like, very focused on a story about a woman. And that's that's not to say like there's inclusion factory, but I wonder if it's like and I say this not in the way it's going to sound, but I wonder if perhaps Aaron not stories that that are resonant for you, how.

1:22:17 Dare you actually? Whereas for me, they're like I've never felt so seen kind of thing. I mean, that's me, that's absolutely possible. All the Strangers made me have a total breakdown. How much both of those movies know All the Strangers twice. And I could literally I could literally never I was like, I'm never going to watch the film I Gain, I was like, I can't. And because it was at such a distance for me, I was like, watch that again. It was like I feel like my heart has been torn out.

1:22:58 And meanwhile like, I can never watch Smile Too again. It is great. I'm never gonna watch it ever again. And a Smile one made me want to kill someone. Oh man, the end of Smile Too, I was just like, hell, yeah, it's a great ending. So Star Wars. Star Wars. Sorry, we haven't really talked about the actual structure of the resistance and what it serves in relation. We talked about at length. The political structure within the Cloud Mind is probably because it's a little bit more plainly stated as opposed to there's a resistance and then there's the people in power that are out of touch and I guess seriously occupying for us being the separatists.

1:23:51 Yeah, because it's there's the senator from ryloth Orn free ta Orn free Ta You know him, you love him? Yeah, who is I think representing Probably an elite that is like not listening to the needs of people. That's that's i'd bringer is what it is. If I unless I was making that up. And absolutely I think yet another example of shorthand filmmaking. How do we show that this corrupt senator is corrupt? You make them a big fan?

1:24:32 Yeah, you can't. You can't just have a character that's over wight like lower Decks does, though she does command Star a sad yes, but she's so nice. It was interesting that like comparing the two episodes was like because in the Star Trek episode, they're like Enterprise crew meet the kind of like splinter faction, the kind of freedom fighter slash terrorists wherever point of view kind of thing, but they meet them first and then meet the kind of like wealthier cloud people. And it was reversed in Star Wars where they meet this like or at least maybe the audience. We see the like senators first and their perspective of the kind of like freedom fighters, and then we meet them second, which is a perspective shift.

1:25:23 Right, because it's like he Sean was Sindola was characterized by the senator as you know, he's like power hungry and he wants to unseat me, and like these are dangerous and this is going to be like this is going to be a problem. He's uncontrollable. Yeah, and you're absolutely right, like you got that impression first, and then working with them. Interestingly, the like shoug lights or whatever, like their first impressions of them are to be tried. They tried to like take them captive and then they can. Fix one of them. Which is my favorite moment of theis Oh my gosh, there's one guy in that fight scene who he's just possibly one of the most thrilling things that I've seen in terms of fight choreography and Star Trek. There's one guy who on frame.

1:26:07 Left just launches himself into the frame and then hits hits Hits. Kirker whoever Kirk stunt double is. It's just like there's so many world building questions. What just happened? Is there a trampoline that's placed there? In real life? Do I say about the world building right there? Is there a rock that is placed there? So far just have built up muscles right there because of working with their hands. Anyways, we're talking about Star warst Wars. I mean, but in both cases, just like look at these monster you know, they're not maybe not monsters so much in Star Wars, but it's like ah Heathen's like uncivilized and like I think it's pretty clear. It's like Sean san Jewel is just like, hey, you're not You're not like aware of or providing the kind like he's kind of like a populous leader, right like, but like.

1:27:01 It is interesting because like you do get the perspective from the senator first, but then they also take the time to have the moment where you see that like graveyard and they're like, oh, these are they're dead and they've buried them and they had loss and all this stuff. And then like they take a kind of a nicely long time in such a rapidly paced episode to like kind of like drop feed these little moments before you finally meet charm and then you get to like decide for yourself once you see him. Clone Wars is so good. You got I like watch the episode. Igod it was like you Kenny was like, oh, I think the last episode was better, and I'm like talking about it. I'm like, did you know that this episode was so cool?

1:27:42 Yeah? It might Yeah, the mace the sound dropping out on the mace window part would be the best scene of the entire season. God it sands down. But you're right like yeah, like there, Yeah, they're uncivilized. But then the show is like, hey, hey, perhaps not, perhaps they actually are, and maybe it just looks. Like hey, hey it's fat Albert. Sorry so sorry. An example, I'm shy, a. Weird choice, not French, great choice. I'm.

1:28:25 I mean it's fairy. Do you like me anymore? Asmen? What do you like me anymore? Oh? No? Do you like me? Yeah? This reminds me of a moment that I was in college and I was driving in the car with my mother and so she like found a moment to like trap me, and that's when she was like, do you even't believe in God anymore? It's like, that's what this feels like. Your friend Kenny being like, do you like me as a person? You're like, I feel trapped because my friend asked a vulnerable question.

1:29:07 Yeah. One way that you feel trapped by anything that I. Do as sexy. Again, like poetry so that they rhy. I love you so much and I really like you too. I like hanging out with you and talking to you. That you're nothing like my mother. I didn't think I wasn't til.

1:29:48 But how are they similar? Listen? Listen all the ways. There blue eyes, blue eyes, blue eyes, blue eyes, and from is Oklahoma in the South, Yes, the South, both states that have panhandles. Weirdly whoa true? Yeah, very true. Yeah, Oklahoma the Florida of the center. Anyway, maybe more math in Oklahoma. Who's to say? I think probably there's probably more like bath salts in Florida.

1:30:29 I agree because there alligators. Yeah. Also, you were making a point ask when we got on. No, I don't know. I think yes, just the piece of like the other ring, because it's funny because it could be that we would look at it as the separatists are this sort of like class. That is, I mean the separatist group in this case is the like wattown boar. It's like the droid guy and then yeah, and they are God, why do I always forget what he represents? Like I got it written down because I crossed it out twice. The Techno Union, the Techno Union, which is Techno Union. Because it also brings up with the introduction of chicken walkers, it made me ask a world building question.

1:31:22 Tiny chicken walkers are more like uh, little chicki walkers. Chicken walkers are the ats to us that you first see an empire. These these are yes, these are little girls. Girls, they're low gals. And then I was asking, what for something that ostensibly has to be an extraordinarily expensive military investment, Uh huh, seemingly has only one function, is not even covered by armor or anything, thereby leaving sure, I guess it's speed kind of makes its target a little bit more difficult to hit. Still, you would, I mean, especially considering later iterations of this exact same device have some sort of armor, but the single use function, there's not a gun attached to it. It's literally just a thing that makes folks walk faster. Like you know what else makes thinking faster? Jet packs? Jet packs which exists.

1:32:21 Maybe they were not built for the war. Maybe they repurposed civilian like farming machinery like cherry pickers or apples. No prize answer. I love that. I love that. And the other piece of it, Mark which is funny, is that, like you start to see in the machinery the ships of the Republic, what is eventually the empire? Right, because the separatists are going to have like you talk about this, like the separatists have like that's not what the empire is. So they have their own types of like styles. So you actually start to see little things like these many DSTs and like, yeah, and so stuff like that is really interesting. Yeah, I was just I was going to say that, yeah, techno union.

1:33:05 I guess you could say, okay, well, who are the people who are being marginalized in this situation, like especially kind of pulling a parallel with the Star Trek episode, and you could very much say as the separatists, who are of course very much like they are oppressing the Twilights. They literally have them captive. They have taken over and taken over their their their planet and their city. Yes, one hundred percent, and like that's that sort of thing here. But I think even more engaging and interesting dynamic, especially one that's very similar to the Star Trek one, is the like elites of Ryloth versus this like resistance for us that existed even before this. It's like their own internal conflicts. And then what does it mean for this?

1:33:51 I mean, I mean technically, like it's the Republic, right, and it's the Senate, so it's kind of like as opposed to like the Federation being someone separate thing like Kirk coming in separately. It's like although I guess the planet actually the cloud dwellers one that is part of the Federation. So it's actually kind of similar. It's like like a sector of it, but like maybe the Jedi is like sort of like separate from the Senate coming in and being this court sort of like factor, this mediating factor. Yes, at the beginning of this whole tirade, not your tirade, but just the tirade that I'm referring to in us talking about Star Wars today, I began with, I forgot to do my research on the French Resistance. Yes, because I knew as soon as I found out that they're French and they just pull all from World War Two, I knew that there was going to be something. You're right, and so you're asking who are the people that are the victims here as it were, answer, it's applied from me, that bastion of academic integrity Wikipedia.

1:35:00 Wikipedia or Wikipedia. Wikipedia, not Wikipedia Wikipedia. I give Wikipedia money, So. Thank you, thank you. The French Resistance, also known in the French language as was a collection of groups that fought the Nazi occupation and the collaborationist Visi regime in France during the Second World War. Yeah, so the show wants us to think the separatists are the Nazis or the enemies, and we know that George Lucas wants us to think of the the Republic as Americans the allies.

1:35:40 They are bad, but for now they are the heroes. And taking in the textual information that these are newsreels or propaganda. Yes, due, yes, yes, yes, so yes. Senator Warnfrita is representing the collaboration this regime that allowed the Nazis to rule France during World War Two. Uh, and so are our hero. Shampson Sindula is the leader of ostensibly Diffrench resistance now Aspen. Yeah, yes, do you know, Mark, do you know what resistance cells were called in rural areas?

1:36:25 Mm hmm yeah, Mark, Wookies. Twiles Aspen. Yes, it starts the letter m. M. Yes, they were all called mom. But to tie it back into star Trek, because everyone pulls from the one war that everyone can agree who the bad guys were. Yeah, they're called the Maquis. Oh my god, oh, oh my god. I love it.

1:37:08 Oh. I didn't even think about I wasn't thinking about like Voyager and non the Machi a resistance group. Uh. Shampson Doula, it's the head of the Maquis. With Shampson doula Is Chacote. Chacote is both starts with ch Aspen. Oh my gosh, it's like that. It's like that like meme of that lady doing math in her head. It's like that one meme that I play all the time on this podcast. Again, it's like poetry rhyme. For some reason too, even though you kept saying in a billion times that like the World War two imagery stuff, because like, at this point in time, I love what you're getting out to it. This is exactly what it is.

1:37:57 In World War Two, we are the goodies because there's a clear bad d and then so the Republic, right, and that's the United States. But then post war like we are an imperialist power, we are the baddes. It just doesn't seem like it because we're the ones with the power, and so the US because of course the empire, the USA is the empire like in Star Wars, and like hence the Vietnamese like Vietnam War imagery and stuff like that. So we're punishing the Nazis for having imprisoned so many innocent people for nothing. Meanwhile, we did it to the Japanese that we're looking right as well.

1:38:39 Or as everyone likes to say and bring up, because it's true, the Nazis were borrowing straight from our policies and our Jim Crow policies and are horrifying or yeah, policies even before. So America is so lacking it so much. But gosh, dar, are we the best at racism? Way to call us? What do you think of racism? Yeah? What are your thoughts? I say it's bad. Interesting. I did just finish reading The Fire Next Time by James Baldwin. Wait what is it? The Fire next Time? And it was interesting him talking about like a kind of the like unique history of America because of slavery and because of this like forced kind of like integration of races that a lot of like other countries, and he was talking specific about like France don't have and so have not had to grab with in the same way, and how it is like forge our cultural identity. But like it's the like resistance to actually like and obviously any misinterpretation here is might on my part and not him, but it's that like resistance to.

1:39:57 How how much gall would Mark have have to have? It? Being like I think James Baldwin got this wrong anyway. He didn't have this right. I thought, you know, especially talking about like America's resistance to kind of coming to terms with that and what that means for our Dannity has like shaped us in way that so many other countries have never had to like grapple with. Truly, we seem to be a culture that again and again fundamentally wants to deny that we've ever done anything wrong, over and over and over again, to the point where we have elected the ultimate denialist as the forty fifth and forty seventh President of the United States. And not only that, but it seems like a good swath of the people have done so proudly.

1:40:45 Knowingly on purpose. We are the empire here, we are I sexy Gungan. So just automatically playing that does lose, just does raise the timber of the room. Yeah, anything else on this I feel like we talked about both a lot. So that's good. Did the podcast, Mark, I just want to make sure that you also said everything. We're not done. We're not done.

1:41:28 I did want to We're not Uh, you gotta stop. Okay, what Marks, it's not bring back. Up vendors so you can't cut that from the top. Can that you can go. A long time ago? Start dating this week? I quoted a boat. I dated a game, but none of them warp my drive into hyper space. The best of both worlds kept meat in the second place. Captain's log on a Halla Kron.

1:42:17 I wanted a song. I penned a song. Seventeen more minutes advise. In super high Def. Aboard the USS Enterprise dt F. Don't you take my walk lighter and clip it? Don't you take my wretchired buddy and nip it? If you spill the tea, I'm gonna sip it. My starship it. Doing today. Yeah, we are going to name our favorite ships. They could be the ships apply to this guy or the ships where they go and both sorry uh, and we're going to do one and the other. Mark some rules for you. Kenny and I are limited to these episodes, so it doesn't have to be from each like it's going to be like like it could be like a ship is from Star Trek, like a spaceship is from like Star Trek, but like a ship is also from Star Trek or Star warsness aft from both. You know, because you are not. You are not subject to the same rules as us. Oh, we also can't. We can't repeat once we've said before. You are not a subject to the same rules as us. You are an honored guest year.

1:43:40 You have diplomatic immunity, you have community. You're a smartie. You're not a dumb dumb chocolate dipe. You could. That means I'm one of a cloud mind. They're bad. If there's one way that people have qualified, Mark One is infinitely crushable. He's wildly aloof Yeah. Yeah, that's what makes me crushable. Wow, he's so naive, so hot. Yeah. You could pick a ship aryship from any episode or anything like, and you don't have to worry about if it's a repeat or not. But you do whatever you want to do. That's what I'm trying to say is we got rules, but you do whatever you want. Baby.

1:44:25 WHOA, that's crazy. I'm like jet Lye and lethal weapon for I think I think that works. I don't know based on King's life, I'm going to assume that that did make sense. It's funny. It's funny. I get it's funny. It's funny. Joke you too.

1:45:06 It was the first one that anyone's talked about lethal four suns that movies come out. I talk about them weekly. That's true. It's weird you have diplomatic community in that. I'm pretty sure. I'm sure that he does. Wait, are you thinking of this is gonna make me racist? Think about Rush Hour? I don't think so. Who is does Jack your China diplomatic community and Russia Hour? I don't think so, But I think the bad guy might have diplomatic community in that. Maybe Listeners, if you think. That I'm just being a racist or it is in fact Russia Hour, watch you go ahead and ride a trek worsepot at gmail dot com. Also follow us on socials, Instagram, and Blue Sky. Please fact check all these movie rafts.

1:45:50 Yeah, so I starship it? Yes, so I don't know I have. So we'll start with like this bace ships. So oh that's the other rule. It's not necessarily be like flying for the sky spaceships. It can be like any type of vehicle. We had to make that one of the rules just because not everything flies. And also we watched a lot of e walks. Incredible. We watched a lot truly incredible. Oh, we watched They're one of my favorite parts of the entire mythos. I love an work, Thank. You so of the package you? Oh yeah, can I go first? Always I might be stealing yours. It's the at t E Walkers. That's what they're called, the chicken Walkers from from the Clone Wars. Okay, I did steal it. Oh sorry, I you've already talked about them. Yeah, you've already talked about them because I love them. I love that they are whipped fast. I love that they dart out and the way they think, like the animation is on them. I love that there's basically in competition with those animals. And I like what we've talked about, which is like I imagine they are in an early form of adsts and that they evolve into that, and there's something very interesting about them as a sort of like early form of this like terrifying thing that we see later in by the Empire. So but in the meantime they're little ton tongs.

1:47:22 They are walkers. Yeah, you also love British lais potato chips is because lays in Britain are called walkers. Oh wow, what an anglophile. This is what I bring to this podcast. Poetry so if they run perspective, I speaking a perspective because I have to rush a little bit in order to get my answer, Mark, would you care to give us what your ship of the weeknd? I don't know if this. I'm going to play by y'all's as much as possible. Okay, So I don't know this. No, no, I think I don't know if this councilor ship. But I'm going to pick the floating city of Stratos from Star Trek.

1:48:14 Outstanding answer. Didn't even think about that, didn't even think about that. That's a greique actual answer. Ever, boy, not technically ship, but people live on it, and it's in the clouds, it's in the sky. It has some kind of repulsive technology. Spot comments on it, the technology, the most impressive technology he's seen. Also, it's a fancy little thing. I know that. The episode does the thing I always love, where like we start on the planet and they look up and see it, and then they beam up there and then they look back down on the planet and it's like fun, like, look where we just were. And I always enjoyed that. One of my favorite special effects in the episode was the fact that they had clouds that were on the set and the background whenever Kirkain's bock beam in and like you know, they they clouded up the little background.

1:49:05 It's like you can actually touch the clown. I thought that was a really lovely touch. I mean, the set design is is great in this episode. It's fantastic. Great answer. That's a great answer, you, Kenny. Mine is the jar that holds the z Night at the end of the episode. There are five of those jars, and that quite possibly might be the most jars that we've ever seen on start. Pretty aren't interesting, and it holds the z Night that is refined, so that's pretty neat. I thought it was interesting they only needed those five jars to fix an entire planet.

1:49:49 Maybe it's a small so small plays. Baby playlage. Yeah, it's it's really deadly, but it's like kind of deadly but really kind of deadly, so like kind of really need to deal with it. Right right, Okay, Okay, Now we're going to do our ships. Romantic ships. They're always ships. They're romantic ships. Ships, the kissy ships. If y'all, if y'all steal my ship. I mean there's one very obvious one. So if why do you have it. I feel like you should take it. There's a fun thing you can do here, which is you can go for the like the idea of you know how like you might chip people that aren't obvious, right, you can go for that, or you can just go for the obvious obvious ship because you're me and you want Spock to have whatever happiness or joy he wants.

1:50:46 Am I stealing? Am I stealing it from you? Kiddy? No? Okay? Great? Mine? So mine is Spock and Spock and dro scene Jock scene. I mean she's a like fucking Daisy Buchanan. Uh, like she's she's a little dumb dumb. I mean, she's not daty Bikanna, it's not, but she is. She's like I know she I gotta tell you. The way she talked was like pretty remarkable. Something about her like but look at this damn below father, like like she is a classic like rich bitch. Uh like who she's like, Oh my goodness, people suffer. I had no idea. Yeah, and she's got wild eye shadow.

1:51:35 And which is a cultural thing for the women apparently, Yes, three different separated color stratified dare I say colors of whoa it would be by shadow by color eyeshadow, but it's actually three colors, so it's uh. Try. Try try shadow. Yeah. Anyway, I just really liked But I despite all that, I really liked her dynamic wood Spock. I liked her like she clearly she was like crushing on him hard and like when talking about him later to her dad was like doing that little sweet giggle thing, and he like clearly was like, oh boy in a different kind of world. Yeah, man, man, girl, this might have been it, you know. So I just thought it was very gentle and also very sweet.

1:52:27 Spock's got gained this episode, starting from dro scenes life line where asking Drox scenes first line to Spock is I don't remember that's not That's not the first time that she says. She's like, I've never seen I've never seen like someone like you before or something, and he's like, well, I've never seen someone like you before. The face says I have never met a fulcan. Spock says, nor I a work of art. Oh, I forgot he's like and he I think what I like about it is he's into her, like he's truly into her. And then I'll talk about that. Spot talks about pont Far with Droxy.

1:53:10 Yes, he tells her about it and and I I just find I don't know. It's like, you know, way way, way, way way back, there's this episode of the Side of Paradise where he gets scored and he gets he turns into like a kind of like sweet, gentle, like can be in love kind of person. And it's like the closest we've gotten back to that since then. Like he's still spuck. He doesn't get to like hang from a tree, but you could tell that he's like Nana a different life maybe the one. And I just like that, that's all, Okay, that's mine. It's great. Yeah, Mark, Like, what what is your ship of the week? So I'm playing I'm playing by host rules again, so I had to kind of go a little, a little far field. I went for from the little offbeat.

1:54:04 Off choose my ship. I'm going to lose my mind. If I If you've thought of this ship as well, we should immediately marry. One another because it was so you definitely chose this ship. My ship is Kirk and his spinning Officer's chair on the Enterprise. About three minutes into the episode, he jumps up very excitedly as they're approaching uh what's it called Ardana the planet and his captain chair starts spinning around wildly behind him, and I know that William Shanner as an actor saw it and went, that's very distracting. So he reaches behind him and just like stops it from spinning.

1:54:51 But that's the actor's choice. Why does Kirk reach back and tenderly caress his captain's chair because he loved it. He loved the verve, he loved the movement, he loved the excitement of the chair, and he just wanted a gentle touch for a love that can never. Be to be fair. In William Shatner's Kirk's last appearance in Star Trek, there is a moment where he is really having a love affair with the Enterprise center seat, and he realizes how important it is to be on the bridge of that ship because while you're there, you can make a difference.

1:55:32 You know, Mark, You're actually not that far off because like I know, it's a fun joke one, but like the Kirk and the ship, the ship itself, like the Enterprise, like that's his true love. The chair would ostensibly be the g spot. Yeah, would so you gotta stop it from spinning. It's dangerous. You let that thing spin because it can if you don't. If you're not careful, just. Like a buzzer cap, so too, will it spin out into diffidity. It's dangerous. Don't don't. Don't try it, everybody, don't.

1:56:14 Don't. Uh. Also, that was a great choice. You're gonna love this ship, AskMen. I'm gonna I'm gonna hate this. It's Vanna and dro Scene. Oh I'm gonna love this. There is just something about their dynamic that went from a friends to enemies ship for me, because dro Scene is a transplant from below right as a sentinel, as a surrogate, and there has got to be something where drox Scene sees Vana and it's like something exotic, something otherworldly, something to ate my little bit of rebellion from my father.

1:57:04 So I'll I'll take a dalliance. Why not? And Vonna in Droxceene sees power, she sees wealth, she sees all of these things she'd never seen before, and someone that wants her for some reason. And so you know that whenever they first came together, and they did it in secret, because you knew that if it were to get out, it would be an extremely shameful affair, but that's what made it so exciting, And it was such a Torris love affair, so passionate, sensual and pure. At first, it was just a communing of bodies and minds, an exchange of ideas, both of them learning about things that they had never even fathomed. But of course, Drox scenes intolerance and also Vanna's unfortunate rejudices, or rather her difficulty in trying to express true intimacy because she's had to be defensive her entire life, considering that she comes from such harsh conditions, and the environment conspires to keep them apart.

1:58:15 So whenever we meet them at the beginning of this episode, they seem to be moral enemies, but you know that there was something pure between them once, but it's something that was left better to the clouds. Oh that was beautiful. Cut. Portrait of a lady on clouds? How long you wrote? Yeah? Right? Can I read it on AO three right now?

1:58:55 I'm about done with the first act or so, so I'm only on page six hundred. Uh sounds like an A three fag. Yes, And before we get into it, Kirk threatens to report Uh. The Stratos are the the Cloud Organization and Plassis, the leader of Stratus to the Federal Bureau of Industrialist Industrialization otherwise known as the FBI. Oh jeez, that's true. That's true. And then Heidi uh In regards to the leader Champson Dula so that his name is mister bunny Rabbit. So many chains, so many Oh, No, Senator orn free Ta is mister bunny Rabbit, so many chins.

1:59:49 Thank you, thank you for. That commentary, Heidi, We really appreciate it. But the timer commentary is over as we once again returned to the central conceit of this podcast, art exist. It's only without a binary, it is either good or it is bad. And so too do we try and finally find out what the answer is to that binary, which is better Star Trek or Star Wars by going through both of these answers, both of these episodes and ranking them a zero to ten scale. Once again, the episodes are the Cloud Minders from Star Trek the original series season three versus Liberty of Ryloth Liberty on from Star Wars the Clone Wars Season one. Uh ask, just to demonstrate to our good guests here, why don't you go ahead and go first.

2:00:36 Okay, I know how to rate things. Yeah, we were gonna do Star Trek first. Uh, Mark, guest choice, which one should we go with first? Let's go with Star Trek first. Great, Yeah, Star Trekers. Okay, Star Trek first. There are ten What am I gonna give it? When am I gonna gamp bitam starting a seven point five? Seven point five? You do love to see it? Yes? I do. I did love to see it. That's why I gave it a seven point five, So you can give it an increment seven point three, six point eight, whatever you want to give it. You can even spite rank things.

2:01:21 Sometimes I'll go through and I'll be like, this was great, canny, just like point five and. Like the fuck, And then I'll be like, as it had brown face because I like loves brown face a lot more than I really find. Racist. It ass like it wasn't that bad. Yeah, speaking of that bad, I'm going to rank this episode seven point seventy five. Yeah. I just really enjoyed this episode. And perhaps it is the context of which I am watching it, uh, but just I just found it very potent. I appreciate the unseubtled nature of the storytelling here because we need these kinds of stories screened as loudly as possible. Right now.

2:02:06 I just really enjoyed it. Yeah, and we're having a hard time. It's the clouds. What do you want from me? Clouds? Cloud City is now something I associate with Star Trek instead of Star Wars. Oh no, Lando is going to be pissed Lando. The Lando system. Not a system. It must be in one of the Star Wars that I haven't watched yet. Yeah, yes, for me, I do I have to give a bit of a preface.

2:02:48 I automatically I love this rank. But it's not even about the episode. Here's the thing, uh, I have. One of my pet peas has to deal with ranking systems, and I, in my head, I know a perfect ranking system. And so while I appreciate that you all have this weird eleven point scale, zero to ten out of an eleven point scale, weird, and then even further vibes, then you also, yeah you, but you split down even further into seven point five all these things. That's a crazy it's like one hundred and twenty two point scale or something that you can. You start your own podcasts. You start your own podcast bark.

2:03:30 I'm gonna and it's gonna be got rating systems. About ratings, you rank the raking systems on a. Scale, but my ideal ranking system is out of four one, two, three or four. Yeah, i'd see you don't like it. So what I'm saying, I'll say all that to say, yeah, is that I rated them out of four and have now and have had to post convert to match your metro great one because I am a guest on your cast, as I like to call. Them, So something something bad would be one zero stars. There is no zero stars zero stars. It's yeah, they're very broad categories, but it's one to two or three or four.

2:04:12 But like what about something that? And again this is the track words podcast where you try and rank which one is better to Star Treker Star Wars, but like one if something that is so bad it's extraordinarily offensive to you, like uh me watching Joker too, where I was like, this is so bad. It's. I don't know, I think it just on. Yeah, it just gotta be anything but one and two or mooth that are probably not worth your time unless you're like actively being like this is so bad, it's good, but then it probably wouldn't be a one or two would probably be a three. That would probably be a two. Any interesting, So you've had to do conversions. So I did conversions. I just did some fast math.

2:04:53 You look over it like, I'm like, do you have like a calculator right there you can take But it's a calculator, it's my phone. So my ranking for the cloud Minders is an eight point twenty. Five WHOA, which. Is a three out of four proper scale. Yeah. I really liked it. I came to it expecting because of my uh, only real experience with like quote unquote whatever we'll call it proper Star Trek, being those first few episodes of Next Generation. I was like, this will be fine, but it's just not gonna be my bag. And you know what, I really dug it, and I thought it was very cool and very fine.

2:05:35 Turns out you liked it more than us, even though you said you probably wouldn't. Like, Yeah, that's wow, that's standing. Yeah, well Drop kicked a guy five minutes in. He really did. It's true, skate, that's fine. That marans a collective total to the cloud Minders to a robust seven point six two five, but still anyone's game. As we barrel into the subsequent thing that we're going to rate liberty on Ryl asmen start us off, you know, I. Was looking back at what so I gave Storm over Ryle up an eight point three in ano sense of Ryle at any point one. I think I probably gave Storm an eight point three because it focused on Ahsoka and I'm really the Soka.

2:06:19 It's a better. Yeah, I guess so, yeah, I know you're I think so. So I'm trying to think. I think maybe this one is any point two fucking sketchy. Hmmdard, I'm gonna give this one a seven. I like this episode. It's a good episode, but you know it's good, Okay. I would like to say I thought this episode kicked ass. It was very much more battle focus. I think it's below the first the it's it's much more battle focused.

2:07:05 But I really liked the focus on mace Windu genuinely for that that that sequence where the sound drops out and it's extraordinary. It like, I'll fit a few points for I do think that like the conversations. I think like Seamson Doula pieces are just very poignant, very interesting. I think it's pretty cool. It's very cool episode. That's why my ranking, you know, all right, yep, so eight point seven. Yeah, what do you rank this episode? This is where the conversion system I think it doesn't work as well. Unfortunately, because based on on on the on the maths I've done, it does feel lower than I would actually give it. But it is currently at a five point five. That's up converted from a two out of four. It's only one point lower than I gave the other episode. I enjoyed the episode, but I do think I did a service by watching it second and having not not accumulated accustomed myself to the storytelling of like the Clone Wars, I was just like very buffeted over the head, and I kept waiting for to kind of dig deeper into some of the ideas that it didn't have time to do, which I mean is not necessarily a fair criticism, but I can only based it off this one episode that I have seen.

2:08:33 That's true. So I enjoyed a lot of the episode, but. I mean that can be. That's the thing that we talked about ad nausea. I'm here on the podcast of the cast Lucas and company, just talking about again stealing from Jesse Earl talking about appropriating aesthetics so you can deal with shorthand for the things that you actually want to deal with, which are the fund space twice and there. Were some just like awkward little structural issues where I was like, we don't need to spend all this time with the bad guys. They have the same scene like four times, cut it out, dig deeper into some fun stuff. Well, speaking of the same scene, so too do we conclude yet another episode of Trek Wars by ranking Liberty of Rhyme loss paltry six point nine versus the Cloud Mind is robust seven point six GW five, which means as been Aspen Star Trek, when's the week?

2:09:31 Enjoy it while you can. I will, because in like three episodes it could be very dicey. For me, it could be very dicey. You want always be here, kend to pull down the Star Trek and the Star Wars scores. Well, I won last week, which was very good. I felt very good because it's been slim pickens for the Star Trek contingent. Over here and uh and I am just like rolling in my wins. Next week could be good. It could be bad. I don't recall either way, We don't know. We'll be doing another podcast. Do y'all have an overall score, which.

2:10:14 Which I would love to tell you that right now the score stands Star Trek at a overall Star Trek unless the mass is wrong, is at six point one one nine versus Star Wars is six point three one six. And I'll round it up because it's at a sixty sixty six, so six point three two so, which means because the numbers don't lie, Star Wars is better than Star Trek. Because numbers are objective and real, and there's no complexity to them or different answers none. You cannot manipulate data and statistics to prove a particular point. Absolutely not that science well speaking manipulating data and statistics.

2:11:00 Why don't you go ahead and subscribe to our YouTube channel YouTube dot com slash at Trek Warspod and you can see ask them make such justesticulations such as this beautifully expressing the current state of so many of us here in the United States of America at this point in time. And additionally, if you would just like to listen to the audio version, you can obviously listen to this available wherever podcasters are. If you want to get in touch with us, why don't you get in touch with us via social media Instagram dot com and blue Sky. Just search Track Wars Pod on both. Additionally, if you don't want to reach us via social media, why don't you go ahead and send us an email Track Warspod at gmail dot com. And finally, if you would like to make sure that this podcast keeps on trucking baby, then why don't you go ahead and head over to Patreon Patreon dot com, slash at trek Wars pod, or I think just slash track Wars Pod where for a dollar a month, we will literally just read your name on air. That's all you have to do. Yeah, yeah, for find out you can get early versions of these episodes and extended versions of these episodes. And you too, you joined the fine auspices of Fine Fault such as Timbo De Sosa, Heidi Rogers, Austin Aaron, my gosh, what's going on?

2:12:16 Uh? Kevin Miller, Arizona, Mark Austin, Aaron Bell bab Cactus who asked us to send them, uh the Star Wars RPG, and I believe nine of us will take care Aspen great, I want to find it. Thank you. Uh. And lastly but certainly not Leslie Joelty partner who composed the Ice starship at theme song. Our opening and closing music was written by mister Tosinlifesso. Please uh patronize them by visiting their link in the show notes below. Uh ark, is there any place anyone can find you outside of just hopping around Austin in general? Uh? No, I have. Online? What if you like local, you can probably find me pretty quickly.

2:13:04 That's just I mean, I gotta say that you are an exceptionally talented person on stage. And not only not only that, I wouldn't necessarily couple this with every single person that is exceptionally talented, but I also feel very safe around you, and I always feel like I've got someone to talk with, which is not always the case. I find that exceedingly rare, and you're just such a jeb of a human being. And thank you for existing period. You don't remind me of my mother? Why, I feel like that's a much less compliment than what I said, because now you're driving drying also equivalent what.

2:13:49 People can find me. I do have a brief cameo in the latest Vim Vendors movie that Mark, I love you, I love you both, Thank you so much. You, I love you. I love you, Audience, we love you. Live along and prosper and may the Force be with you, Canny. The answer is, I'm gonna watch Alien Rhymeless on November twenty first, when it comes out on Hulu.

2:14:29 It's taking you so long, so long? Mark, have you seen Alien Romilis, I've not seen it. Are you a fan of the Alien series? I'm I don't know, I'm enough of a fan. I'll probably check it out. Sure. I think my Alien film has helped with the fact that the that Sick DVD set came out at a very four yeth time in my film fandom, because like each here's the thing about that DVD set, aspen, each each one of them came with like a four hour documentary of making of that was like Lord of the Rings, outrageously candid. Like Alien three was just like, oh yeah, this process sucked for everyone involved. Here's who' sabotaged us, Here's why it was a failure. We think it's a failure. Here's why. Which that's like only twelve years separated from whenever that movie released, which would be like talking about the Clone Wars now, which they still haven't done anything.

2:15:31 I missed all the special features before they became like so corporatized or whatever, where they were like, no, it has to be more publicity from the thing you've already watched, right, And it was just actually the people talking about the movie. Yeah, Lord of the Rings Extra Features the best thing that's ever happened in the world. I haven't watched all of the Hobbit Extended Edition special features, but I saw a clip of it online somewhere and they were talking about making up that third movie and they were like, yeah, Peter Jackson was just shot like he was and then shot him. They like got the footage of him just being like wow. So put that versus the footage from Lord of the Rings, which includes such beautiful gems as interviews like do you wear wigs? Will you wear wigs?

2:16:22 When? Will you? When? Will will you wear wigs? Also, as soon as you brought up the Hobbit, asmen went full of Florence Pugh and it. Was just like I'm not here for it. No, just sad. Anyway, there you go. November twenty first,