Nov. 8, 2024

The Way to Eden vs. Innocents of Ryloth

The Way to Eden vs. Innocents of Ryloth

A great episode here.This week, we talk about a truly insidious prospect: well-made propaganda.

Aspen answers why the Outer Rim is a hot bed of destruction. Kenny talks about the original draft of The Way to Eden.

We also talk techbros and if...

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Season 1

A great episode here.This week, we talk about a truly insidious prospect: well-made propaganda.

Aspen answers why the Outer Rim is a hot bed of destruction. Kenny talks about the original draft of The Way to Eden.

We also talk techbros and if technological advancement could result in a Star Trek. And how will people read the almost satire of nationalism in Innocents of Ryloth.

__________________________________

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WEBVTT

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Welcome to the Track Wars Podcast, the one podcast that

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dares to answer the most important question in fandom, which

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is better Star Wars are Star Trek, by going through

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both franchises in chronological release order. I am Kenny Madison,

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one of your hosts, the Star Trek contingent, and with

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me Esper always is.

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Me Aspen Webster Star Wars Contingent, super super chill.

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Super chill chick. You're super chill.

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I was.

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That kind of language making you sound like a real

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Herbert Aspen?

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Oh no, no, he Herber Herbert. I hear you. No,

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I connect with you. What are they saying? Time for

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me to launch into a musical number. I pass through

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the storm. It's like a dove.

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Aspen, you truly are my narra this week, as I

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reach across the aisle and go yay brother, as we

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as we review both The Way to Eat and from

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Star Trek the original series Season three versus Star Wars

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The Clone Worst Season one. Innocent over innocence, over innocence of.

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Because before it was a storm over.

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Boy? Yeah man, me acting like I haven't done the

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research haha.

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We all know who the research guy is and it's

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not this guy.

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Oh, pitch Posh Aspen. I do the textual research and

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you do the contextual I also do some contextual research too,

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but also your your life experience and the things that

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you care about are so much more vast than my

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natural inclinations bring and you just bring in different perspectives

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and I really enjoy that, and I think those are

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probably going to be critical for these two episodes today.

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You want to dive into some well, no, before we

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dive into some synopsis.

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Yeah, yeah, those are really nice thing you just said

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to me.

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By the way, Oh, it's extremely true. That's one of

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the reasons why I wanted to do the podcast with you. Specifically,

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before we get into the synopsis, for people that are

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playing the home game, we have a little bit of

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corresponds to catch up with from our friends over at

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the Whole Low Maneuver Podcast. They have sent us some

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questions and we are going to do our best to

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answer these. Yeah, four questions that are well four three

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questions and one statement. Okay, from a Hold On Maneuver

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co host Michael Saharan. But what Chuck could Chuck would

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wouldn't they?

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Yes, I'll say.

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We excellent From the Hold On maneuver co host Mark

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Ibbert otherwise known as Arizona Mark statement. More Ahsoka series

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connections to this arc discussed in regards to Storm over

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Rylot and Innocence of Ryloth aspen as the resident of

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Ahsoka fan both the character and the TV show. What

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are your notes on that one or will we dig

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into it later in the analysis.

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It's less a Soka, it's not. It's it's Rebels. So

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but I mean it's like Ahsoka and that's Harris and Doula.

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But Harah is I mean, we'll get I don't want to, like,

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I don't want to spoil anything. I mean, I think

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you know because you've seen Rebels.

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I've seen Rebels, so you know that Harrah.

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We'll get into this in the third episode of the arc.

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We're in the second episode. Is Ryloth arc that her

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father is, uh, it's not a commander, but like he's

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like the leader of We're going.

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To meet mister Sindula.

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Yeah, yeah, so that is the connection there. So at

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this point she would have been a child.

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Well, I have watched all of Rebels a lot that

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was a while ago, Yeah, and a lot of it

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has left my mind, except for you know, bits that

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were covered in the Ahsoka TV show, and the fact

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that Darth Maul fights Obi Wan Kenobi in one episode.

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Mhm, that's such a good episode.

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Yeah, and also the fact that Darth Maul talks and

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talks and talks and rebels and it's so boring it

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Hank Shoo not but we're not here to discuss We're

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here to talk about this correspondence.

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Yeah, because yes, she she is effectively royalty. There's some

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pretty wild episodes that happened in rebels around this. We're

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coming back to it with her father and this, yeah,

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where you can kind of see this is the beginning.

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You kind of see his perspective on it, and that

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the next episode. Of course, we didn't meet him in

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this episode. We're just now freeing the Twilights and they're

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about to go and they need to retake the capital

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city and that's where he'll be.

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So we reach Aspen from co host might of the

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whole of maneuver Michael Saarn, Why is the Outer Rim

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such a hotbed of destruction?

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I mean, I think we could we could destruction. I

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think I think Outer Rim planets tend to be whether

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and whatever in literally any type of science fiction, like

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whether it's Firefly or Star Trek or Star Wars. I

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think the implication is that they're a little more wild West.

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And because they're outer rim it's as I mean, they're

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literally outer If the central part of the government is

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farther away from them, they are harder to govern. So

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like in Star Wars, whether it's the Republic or whether

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it's the empire in charge, that's where you get crime syndicates,

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is where you get the huts. That's where you get

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a lot more spice running things like that, because I think, yeah, yeah,

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the implication is they're they're farther a way, they're more

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spread out. It's a little bit more lawless in that way.

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I wish I knew more about history because that sounds

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that that's an outstanding explanation, and now I want to

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go into actual history and see how that is played out,

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I mean more the likely through colonization efforts from you

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know everyone.

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Yeah, because you know there's two things there, which is

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the idea of like literal distance, because if let's use

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a let's use a kind of example of like you

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have a colony and you are in imperial power, you

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put your people in charge in those spaces, because if

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you're England and you have India as a colony, right,

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then you put your English generals and commanders and they

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become like mayoral I don't I don't know that history

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super well, but they would be they would be in

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charge in those spaces because you have to have some

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type of exertion of power. You can't just be like,

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sure they're over there, right, so if you don't so,

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but then presumably like there must just yeah, there's a

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distance thing. There is two Maybe there's like cultural differences,

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like that's talking about colonization when you're talking about like

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the republic, which we could argue maybe has its own

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type of like colonization aspects to it. Though I think

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is kind of more on the idea of like we

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are trying to seek republic democracy. This is truly you are.

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You can represent yourself. We're not deciding who you are. Ostensibly.

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I think it just maybe has more to do with like, yeah,

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you're farther away, and I think in that way, the

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other side of that maybe is like the uh, the

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sort of concept of the American the United States wild West,

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which is our favorite word aesthetic is its own kind

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of interesting aesthetic of like we are. I guess that

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actually had to do a distance too. It's right, you're

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the other side of the western part of the country

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and the seat of power is like the east side

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of the country. So you can't even get us right

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over here we get we get referentumble boys and girls.

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So anyway, what an.

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Outstanding explanation, also from Michael Sahuran. If Kirk helped on

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rile Off, how many Twilights would he seduce? Answered? Either

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all of them or the ones that were most like robots.

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No, I think one. I think if he were part

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of it, there would be one. He they would make eyes.

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Kirk is strictly monogamous whenever it comes to having having dalliances.

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It's never like he is cheating on one with another,

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but he does get around. He had remember he had

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sex this season, which is pretty exciting.

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Oh my god, it do you want to talk about

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our episode?

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Indeed, let's go ahead and get to the synopsis for

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folks that are playing the home game. Let's go ahead

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and start with The Way to Eden director David Alexander,

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writer's story by Michael Richards and Arthur Hineman. It was

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already spoiled that Michael Richards is a pseudonym for Dorothy Fontana.

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Teleplay by Arthur Heineman from the Joan Crosby syndicated column

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TV Scout from February twenty first, nineteen sixty nine. Here

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we Go. One of the top picks tonight is Star

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Trek's Way to Eden. Guest guest stars Skip Homer does

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a light take off on doctor Timothy Leary, LSD, scientist

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and a scientist in quotes, he plays doctor Severn, a

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robed and bead leader of a group of six and

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sick hippies looking for Eden. And they are literally sick,

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carrying a disease which threatened the lives of any society

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they may reach, including the lives of the men of

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the enterprise, not the women. After they come aboard and

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tried to persuade the chemen to join them, even mister

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Spock joins one of these special hippies tonight for a

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moment of song as they seek their planetary paradise. Thank you, Joan.

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Thanks Joan to Joan, right sick and sick?

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OR'd you just add that she wrote six and sick hippies?

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Incredible?

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That was not editorializing that's beautiful.

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I like that. I liked thanks, I liked Joan so

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my side. We got Star Wars Clone Wars. Innocence of

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Ryla Really March six, two thousand and nine. The writer

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on this one is well director is Justin Ridge. Writer

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is Henry Gilroy. So which are fab our friend? We

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should be doing an impression of him as well. Ah.

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And here's a description during the Battle for Ryloth. This

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is by TV Archaeologist. I feel like when TV Archaeologist

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comes in and as a description, IMDb is pretty good.

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Sometimes they leave things out and I'm like, who are you?

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Miss Troupers. During the Battle for Ryloth, obi Wan Commander

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Cody and his two hundred and twelfth Attack Battalion set

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out to free the occupied Twilight village of Nabat. Two

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troopers Waxer and Boil, find a young girl named Numa,

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who becomes instrumental in obi Wan's plant. She really does

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she really does? Anny? Can I just tell you? I

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might have cried multiple times watching both of these episodes outstanding.

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I don't know why I'm feeling weird today, but I'm

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thinking crying thing about Numa.

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In a sense of Ryloth. I can understand there's a

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small child in a war torn area. Yeah, that is

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teaching soldiers the value of kindness and how not to

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be racist.

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She picks up her a little when he gives her

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a little stuff stuff dull and oh like they did her. Sorry,

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they like animated her super well. She even like walks

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like a tiny little girl, like she kind of holds

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her back really really tight and almost like arcs backward.

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And it made me really march. Yes, yes, and so

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you understand why I might cry about her taking them

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to her.

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Crying out crying during the way to Eden at the

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very end. Regardless, Uh, there is a large swath of

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Star Trek fans that would be like.

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I know, I know, I know. I saw what everybody

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said about this episode, and I'm like, you Space Hippies

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ridiculous and people being like, oh, just wait to give

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it that shitty Space Hippies episode, and I'm like totally

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for sure, for sure. And then I was watching it

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and I was like, do I like this? I don't

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really like this.

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I think the journey is was extremely well illustrated in

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These Are the Voyages season three by Mark Cushman and

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Susan Osborne, where the author talks about their personal experience

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of watching this episode for the first time when they

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were fourteen years old and being like, what what is this?

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This is the word they're singing and dancing. This is

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the worst episode of Star Trek ever. And they held.

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That they held that cringe muscle in themselves, and every

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time that they watched The Way to Eden, the cringe

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was still induced.

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But as they got older, it got lessened and lessened

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and listened to the point where they were like, actually,

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this episode genuinely had some interesting things to say.

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Thank god. I was like, yeah, okay, I'm glad that

231
00:14:02.039 --> 00:14:03.960
freshman's us An Osburner with me.

232
00:14:04.080 --> 00:14:10.120
There are undoubtedly so much worse episodes, so much worse episodes.

233
00:14:10.360 --> 00:14:16.320
This scene, this episode seems to have some interesting things

234
00:14:16.360 --> 00:14:21.639
to say. They might be a little bit malintentioned, yes,

235
00:14:21.879 --> 00:14:28.000
that's for sure, but they still have a clear they

236
00:14:28.000 --> 00:14:31.080
still have a point of view. They are interrogating that

237
00:14:31.080 --> 00:14:34.720
that point of view too. They're interrogating the limits of empathy.

238
00:14:35.120 --> 00:14:38.200
They're interrogating their own empathy. They're interrogating the premise of

239
00:14:38.200 --> 00:14:43.440
Star Trek a little bit. Yes, And on top of that,

240
00:14:44.559 --> 00:14:46.080
I freaking enjoy the camp man.

241
00:14:47.559 --> 00:14:53.799
I yeah, I guess I have no cringebone, you know

242
00:14:53.799 --> 00:14:56.399
what I mean, Like, I just don't particularly find it

243
00:14:56.399 --> 00:14:59.320
to be fun to look at something and be like cringe.

244
00:14:59.360 --> 00:15:01.879
I'm like, whenever, it's just fucking whatever it is, you know,

245
00:15:02.559 --> 00:15:08.120
unless it is truly so off base. I imagine if

246
00:15:08.159 --> 00:15:11.120
you're young in the if you are a young person

247
00:15:11.120 --> 00:15:15.679
in the sixties watching this, you're like, oh, yeah, it's

248
00:15:15.679 --> 00:15:19.639
probably gonna hit that really hard because it's such a strange,

249
00:15:20.879 --> 00:15:27.679
uh depiction of sixties seventies hippies. Yeah, it is. It

250
00:15:27.759 --> 00:15:31.320
does have because there's me watching it now, and there's

251
00:15:31.360 --> 00:15:35.320
the me watching it now crying. I'll tell you what

252
00:15:35.519 --> 00:15:39.399
made me cry, by the way, was the spoiler to

253
00:15:39.440 --> 00:15:41.320
the end of the like the end of the episode

254
00:15:41.480 --> 00:15:43.879
when they do get to their Eden, which is a

255
00:15:43.919 --> 00:15:47.399
beautiful planet, there's nothing else on it, and then it

256
00:15:47.440 --> 00:15:49.639
turns out everything is poisoned.

257
00:15:50.960 --> 00:15:56.399
It's not just poison poison aspen. It's boiling ass.

258
00:15:56.159 --> 00:15:58.360
It's literally full of acid.

259
00:15:58.639 --> 00:15:59.600
It's regular acid.

260
00:15:59.720 --> 00:16:03.080
It's just but it makes it's just it's horrifying. And

261
00:16:03.120 --> 00:16:06.360
one of the characters, Adam, they find him dead after

262
00:16:06.399 --> 00:16:11.600
he ate fruit, and there's something about Spock so seriously

263
00:16:12.159 --> 00:16:15.879
looking and they're at Eden being like his name was Adam,

264
00:16:16.360 --> 00:16:19.919
which would seem like it's awful. It's kind of like

265
00:16:20.159 --> 00:16:22.919
a glib thing to say, but it truly wasn't, because

266
00:16:22.919 --> 00:16:24.840
what it was hitting me at was this feeling of

267
00:16:27.720 --> 00:16:31.879
doesn't there's so much inside of this of like the

268
00:16:31.960 --> 00:16:37.679
desire for the desire for something that doesn't exist, you know,

269
00:16:38.039 --> 00:16:40.440
like the like because the whole concept of a garden

270
00:16:40.440 --> 00:16:42.000
of Eden is not being a place you get to

271
00:16:42.039 --> 00:16:42.919
belong in or be in.

272
00:16:43.480 --> 00:16:46.639
I will say no, no, finish your thought.

273
00:16:46.720 --> 00:16:49.159
No that I mean that is because because then by

274
00:16:49.200 --> 00:16:51.600
the end of the episode Spock does say to the others,

275
00:16:51.600 --> 00:16:54.639
he's like, I truly hope you find this thing that

276
00:16:54.679 --> 00:16:57.000
you are looking for, and like whether or not I

277
00:16:57.039 --> 00:17:02.399
agree with that journey, there's something like so so desperate,

278
00:17:02.960 --> 00:17:06.079
so deeply sad about it, and his like belief in

279
00:17:06.160 --> 00:17:09.359
them for wanting it was like very emotional for me

280
00:17:10.519 --> 00:17:14.000
though actually the Spock, the Spock characterization throughout the entire

281
00:17:14.039 --> 00:17:15.759
episode is so emotional for me.

282
00:17:15.839 --> 00:17:17.359
Spock's dynamite in this episode.

283
00:17:18.000 --> 00:17:21.400
I've found his like interest in them to be so compassionate.

284
00:17:21.720 --> 00:17:24.319
The rest of the crew is pretty much fuddy duddies.

285
00:17:24.319 --> 00:17:29.200
Except check Off. Oh yeah, he's a real fuddy duddy

286
00:17:29.279 --> 00:17:31.119
he but he also is clearly like in love with

287
00:17:31.160 --> 00:17:33.279
one of them with a background that is not just

288
00:17:33.359 --> 00:17:37.119
immediate love. It's like or he feels guilty and he's

289
00:17:37.319 --> 00:17:38.920
he's being but he's being fuddy duddy in the sense

290
00:17:38.920 --> 00:17:41.559
that he's like, well, I have a duty and yeah, sorry,

291
00:17:41.599 --> 00:17:44.079
but you're right pocket. I made interrupt your no.

292
00:17:45.519 --> 00:17:50.920
This because I would not begrudge anyone thinking that that

293
00:17:51.160 --> 00:17:56.400
that notion is hokey of Adam eating fruit and dying. Yeah,

294
00:17:56.480 --> 00:17:59.160
and Spock literally hitting the nail on the head by

295
00:17:59.200 --> 00:18:02.319
going his name was Adam him. Uh yeah, I really

296
00:18:02.359 --> 00:18:04.519
liked this episode. This episode.

297
00:18:04.559 --> 00:18:07.079
Okay, okay, I don't feel crazy.

298
00:18:07.599 --> 00:18:10.079
It's it's an episode that has a lot to say.

299
00:18:10.759 --> 00:18:14.799
I enjoyed it. I enjoyed. I enjoyed Kirk being fuddy

300
00:18:14.839 --> 00:18:21.640
duddy with an I mean Kirk. Kirk vacillates from easygoing

301
00:18:22.240 --> 00:18:26.559
liberal military guy to, as we saw in the first season,

302
00:18:27.759 --> 00:18:32.200
a strict by the book disciplinarian who is just he's

303
00:18:32.279 --> 00:18:34.519
really annoyed by them. Everyone's annoyed by them.

304
00:18:34.759 --> 00:18:37.839
I mean they're really annoying, but you.

305
00:18:37.880 --> 00:18:44.400
Know, uh, there's also an exercise and empathy and then

306
00:18:45.400 --> 00:18:48.079
that that is interesting where everyone is attempting to try

307
00:18:48.119 --> 00:18:50.920
and see their point of view. They've got the great

308
00:18:51.480 --> 00:18:56.799
Doc severn Doctor Severn. I almost said, Doc Severnson, what's

309
00:18:56.799 --> 00:18:57.160
that about that?

310
00:18:57.279 --> 00:18:58.160
Dos? Ears?

311
00:18:59.839 --> 00:19:02.079
There? They're big?

312
00:19:02.720 --> 00:19:03.279
Am I right?

313
00:19:03.759 --> 00:19:04.319
They're big?

314
00:19:04.759 --> 00:19:09.039
All right? Look at that? That was years. I was like,

315
00:19:09.119 --> 00:19:11.160
is the human it's just weird ears?

316
00:19:12.400 --> 00:19:15.720
Uh? What race is he? Is it established? What race?

317
00:19:17.079 --> 00:19:19.039
I don't know? Man, Am I just being a do

318
00:19:19.200 --> 00:19:25.119
with big ears? Sure they look like like creature from

319
00:19:25.160 --> 00:19:30.119
the Black Lagoon gills, but as ears, that's it was

320
00:19:30.160 --> 00:19:36.359
just like his ears, Like like if you had if

321
00:19:36.400 --> 00:19:39.640
you were a boxer with like massive cauliflower ears. What

322
00:19:39.759 --> 00:19:45.759
a man? What a shitty man? Question for you?

323
00:19:45.839 --> 00:19:47.599
Please? I love answering questions.

324
00:19:48.599 --> 00:19:51.519
What did the space hippies want?

325
00:19:52.039 --> 00:19:56.519
This sounds like the setup to a joke. They wanted

326
00:19:56.680 --> 00:19:58.839
I think one of the same thing that doctor Severne wanted,

327
00:19:58.839 --> 00:20:03.279
which was to be left alone on well a version

328
00:20:03.319 --> 00:20:06.119
of what doctor Savin wanted, which is they wanted to

329
00:20:06.119 --> 00:20:11.960
be left alone on a paradise planet to live organically

330
00:20:12.880 --> 00:20:15.519
and live and have some good commune living.

331
00:20:16.039 --> 00:20:18.839
Okay, Yeah, because it's I think organically is the piece there.

332
00:20:18.880 --> 00:20:25.559
It's like they they're effectively ledite, ask they're ledites, though

333
00:20:25.559 --> 00:20:30.000
they are ledites obviously on stealing spaceships and you know,

334
00:20:30.359 --> 00:20:36.160
having those tools. There's this is where so one uh,

335
00:20:36.240 --> 00:20:39.720
and that of course in the sixties and seventies has

336
00:20:39.720 --> 00:20:43.200
its equivalency of like, yeah, you know, like earth children

337
00:20:44.039 --> 00:20:49.000
and wanting to live off the land. I do think

338
00:20:49.039 --> 00:20:53.920
it's interesting as a piece of texture that they're rich kids.

339
00:20:54.720 --> 00:20:58.359
One of them is this, yes, as one of them

340
00:20:58.480 --> 00:21:01.759
is what the son of an ambassador something, And so

341
00:21:01.799 --> 00:21:03.440
they can't touch them, They can't throw them in the

342
00:21:03.480 --> 00:21:07.440
brig even though they've literally stolen a ship and then

343
00:21:07.559 --> 00:21:10.839
drove it to the point that it exploded. They just

344
00:21:10.920 --> 00:21:15.000
they stole and destroyed property. Yeah, and then they're brought

345
00:21:15.039 --> 00:21:17.759
onto the ship where they then cause havoc, but they

346
00:21:17.759 --> 00:21:21.759
can't do anything about it because they're rich, powerful kids.

347
00:21:22.440 --> 00:21:25.240
So I just think that that's an interesting sort of

348
00:21:25.880 --> 00:21:29.559
peace to it. It makes them look real bad. One

349
00:21:29.559 --> 00:21:31.759
of them is former Starfleet at least one of them

350
00:21:31.759 --> 00:21:33.279
is Warmer star Fleeting dropped.

351
00:21:33.039 --> 00:21:40.119
Out doctor Severn is a renowned scientist who has renounced

352
00:21:41.200 --> 00:21:50.359
his ways of sciencing, Like yeah, and then there's Adam

353
00:21:50.480 --> 00:21:53.079
who looks like he just likes to party. And there's

354
00:21:53.079 --> 00:21:59.440
two other people that are women that don't want things

355
00:21:59.440 --> 00:22:01.359
in the other one one is just there yep.

356
00:22:02.559 --> 00:22:08.519
And then there's Lilia, Lily Leally, Leila, Leela's dream Leilah.

357
00:22:08.559 --> 00:22:09.039
What's her name?

358
00:22:09.079 --> 00:22:20.240
I don't know, Elenaia, Elena, Elena, She's yes, Irena galu

359
00:22:20.720 --> 00:22:22.240
Arena Arena.

360
00:22:21.960 --> 00:22:32.200
Golul go, Golulian, gol Arena go, yes, goll.

361
00:22:32.039 --> 00:22:33.640
You go you ln.

362
00:22:35.039 --> 00:22:42.160
So there is It's just very like, I here's the thing, okay,

363
00:22:42.200 --> 00:22:44.279
because there's then and then there's there's like how we

364
00:22:44.359 --> 00:22:47.279
can find their counterparts now, right, because I do think

365
00:22:47.319 --> 00:22:49.039
that there are similar counterparts of what you can see

366
00:22:49.079 --> 00:22:49.920
in twenty twenty four.

367
00:22:51.119 --> 00:22:53.279
Yeah, yeah, no, please continue.

368
00:22:54.640 --> 00:22:59.799
I have a lot of compassion for this, right, Like,

369
00:23:00.039 --> 00:23:04.440
I feel very strongly about not discounting young people's disc

370
00:23:04.559 --> 00:23:06.240
Like I'm taking the doctor out of this, right, I'm

371
00:23:06.279 --> 00:23:08.359
just taking these young people who are kind of following

372
00:23:08.400 --> 00:23:12.799
this populist dude. It's a bit cult esque, right, people

373
00:23:12.839 --> 00:23:17.720
who have like who clearly see maybe this is what

374
00:23:17.839 --> 00:23:20.079
you were talking about, which is like we're rebelling against

375
00:23:20.119 --> 00:23:22.880
the idea of this utopia that like this is not

376
00:23:23.079 --> 00:23:26.839
actually a true utopia in their eyes, there's a mechanization element.

377
00:23:27.240 --> 00:23:34.200
I am assuming there's dominance of computers and technology that

378
00:23:34.400 --> 00:23:38.079
makes them feel like they're disconnected from a real earth.

379
00:23:40.920 --> 00:23:43.720
So I'm going to have compassion for that for sure,

380
00:23:44.240 --> 00:23:47.680
because this starts to bring in my me current stuff,

381
00:23:48.119 --> 00:23:50.039
which is I'm by no means a letite or want

382
00:23:50.119 --> 00:23:52.920
to be. But you know, we've had conversations where I

383
00:23:53.039 --> 00:23:57.920
start like, I think a lot of what in an

384
00:23:57.960 --> 00:24:01.519
ideal world technology is a eving the star Trek ideal

385
00:24:01.839 --> 00:24:07.599
of technological advancement gets to result in utopia and in

386
00:24:07.839 --> 00:24:10.279
making your life easier. You could work if you want

387
00:24:10.319 --> 00:24:14.359
to or not, you could do art and instead if

388
00:24:14.400 --> 00:24:18.720
it is privatized, particularly specifically if it is privatized. Because

389
00:24:18.720 --> 00:24:20.319
by the way, I was talking to my friend who

390
00:24:20.319 --> 00:24:22.839
works for JPL about the idea of what we're sorry,

391
00:24:22.920 --> 00:24:25.119
this is like a tangent that is related of like

392
00:24:25.359 --> 00:24:28.000
what we're talking about with like diverting resources toward things

393
00:24:28.079 --> 00:24:31.519
like space travel versus towards say, like resources that are needed.

394
00:24:31.480 --> 00:24:32.759
Based on last week's discussion.

395
00:24:33.000 --> 00:24:38.240
Yeah, and she was like, well, here's the thing. Public

396
00:24:38.759 --> 00:24:44.319
funded space research creates technologies that help people in other ways.

397
00:24:44.759 --> 00:24:47.720
It has resulted in so many more life saving types

398
00:24:47.759 --> 00:24:52.160
of technologies than just this one thing. When you privatize

399
00:24:52.319 --> 00:24:54.920
space travel, wheny of these pieces that are privatized, it

400
00:24:55.079 --> 00:24:58.759
is only benefiting fucking rich people all the time. And

401
00:24:58.839 --> 00:25:00.480
I think, what, there's also a good here, eauc. I

402
00:25:00.559 --> 00:25:02.680
just need to amend how I was kind of talking

403
00:25:02.680 --> 00:25:05.119
about it last week, which is also to say that

404
00:25:06.160 --> 00:25:09.039
it is not funding for space programs that is keeping

405
00:25:09.119 --> 00:25:13.480
us from having healthcare. It is you know, funneling billions

406
00:25:13.559 --> 00:25:19.039
into genicides anyway and other things. So I think that

407
00:25:19.119 --> 00:25:20.599
there is still conversation to be had around that. I

408
00:25:20.640 --> 00:25:22.039
don't think it's like a black or white thing. I'm

409
00:25:22.039 --> 00:25:23.960
not just like it's always good, but I do think

410
00:25:24.200 --> 00:25:26.279
just to kind of talk about public funding for things

411
00:25:26.359 --> 00:25:29.519
like this. So anyway, in our ideal world technology is

412
00:25:29.799 --> 00:25:32.160
toward actually making our lives better and would be that

413
00:25:32.359 --> 00:25:34.920
Star Trek ideal. In the world that we have, it

414
00:25:35.039 --> 00:25:38.720
is dominated by shareholder interests in the fact that things

415
00:25:38.839 --> 00:25:40.839
like are we were just talking about this off Mike

416
00:25:41.319 --> 00:25:43.240
are push and investment. As someone who works at a

417
00:25:43.279 --> 00:25:48.079
tech company, our obsession with AI is being fueled by

418
00:25:48.559 --> 00:25:52.039
perception of a tool as opposed to actual usefulness of

419
00:25:52.079 --> 00:25:54.880
a tool. It is being pushed literally because that's who

420
00:25:54.880 --> 00:25:57.559
the funders and shareholders, that's what they want to push,

421
00:25:57.720 --> 00:25:59.839
not because of actual perceived need for a thing.

422
00:26:00.880 --> 00:26:03.279
It is there is a prospect of the amount of

423
00:26:03.359 --> 00:26:06.319
money that a company can stay by letting go of

424
00:26:06.480 --> 00:26:09.839
workers and instead being able to automate those things, because

425
00:26:09.880 --> 00:26:12.839
that could mean more cash to the stockhallners.

426
00:26:13.319 --> 00:26:14.599
I don't even know if it's that much. I think

427
00:26:14.599 --> 00:26:16.359
they're just like, AI will make us money, So this

428
00:26:16.480 --> 00:26:19.400
is all we care about. AI makes money, AI sells

429
00:26:19.440 --> 00:26:20.319
and makes money. We're done.

430
00:26:20.359 --> 00:26:24.039
The older I get, the more that I see that. Yeah,

431
00:26:24.440 --> 00:26:26.960
rich people, Oh, they just want to be richer. They don't,

432
00:26:26.960 --> 00:26:30.880
at least the public facing ones seem to be bereaft

433
00:26:30.880 --> 00:26:32.960
of a certain type of intelligence. Yeah.

434
00:26:33.079 --> 00:26:38.359
Actually, there is no ability to see past short term

435
00:26:38.480 --> 00:26:41.400
gains because you and I both know that AI is

436
00:26:41.400 --> 00:26:46.599
also economically damaging. It is that economically sorry, environmentally damaging.

437
00:26:46.880 --> 00:26:51.400
So I guess what I'm getting at is unfettered technological

438
00:26:51.480 --> 00:26:54.680
advancement when privatized specifically, And I don't think this is

439
00:26:54.720 --> 00:26:56.160
a stary. I think Star Trek does have it. It's

440
00:26:56.160 --> 00:26:58.720
a public component. But I think that like in our

441
00:26:58.759 --> 00:27:01.759
twenty twenty four world, a lot of compassion for like

442
00:27:02.960 --> 00:27:06.039
what the fuck like, I want actual technology to be

443
00:27:06.119 --> 00:27:08.680
making my life better, not just making billionaires richer.

444
00:27:09.079 --> 00:27:12.319
Right, It is wild how this episode anthropologically is so

445
00:27:12.480 --> 00:27:16.839
fascinating from a nineteen sixty nine point of view. And

446
00:27:16.960 --> 00:27:19.000
not only that, but I just looked at the date

447
00:27:19.079 --> 00:27:20.920
of the person that wrote the teleplay. They were born

448
00:27:20.960 --> 00:27:23.519
in nineteen ten, which would extensively make them fifty nine

449
00:27:23.599 --> 00:27:26.000
years old whenever they wrote this, or at fifty eight

450
00:27:26.079 --> 00:27:29.039
or fifty nine one of those things. So you got

451
00:27:29.200 --> 00:27:31.279
a person of an older generation that's looking on the

452
00:27:31.799 --> 00:27:34.440
generation and being like, these weird kids, get off my lawn,

453
00:27:34.640 --> 00:27:38.079
while also challenging their own notions of empathy, but ultimately

454
00:27:38.160 --> 00:27:40.519
coming down on the side that the space hippies are

455
00:27:40.599 --> 00:27:45.599
weird and creepy, and they're able to weaponize our own

456
00:27:45.640 --> 00:27:49.880
inherent empathy as law abiding rule following citizens don't like

457
00:27:49.960 --> 00:27:56.559
that to break the law and land on acid planets,

458
00:27:56.599 --> 00:28:01.039
and who wants that? And Ultimately, whatever they're chasing is impossible.

459
00:28:03.039 --> 00:28:05.240
I think. I think that's where the episode is landing

460
00:28:05.279 --> 00:28:09.279
in terms of, yeah, passing it while also exercising empathy.

461
00:28:10.640 --> 00:28:12.880
And then you watch it through twenty twenty four lens

462
00:28:13.200 --> 00:28:18.480
as well, and you're freaking doctor Severn is an anti

463
00:28:18.680 --> 00:28:20.440
vax typhoid, and Mary is.

464
00:28:20.440 --> 00:28:23.400
That anti vax typhoid, and Mary I Dare wants to

465
00:28:23.519 --> 00:28:24.920
force women to be tradwise.

466
00:28:26.480 --> 00:28:30.519
Yeah, and in certain ways that aspect plays a whole

467
00:28:30.599 --> 00:28:33.559
lot better. Now, yes, then it must have been in

468
00:28:33.640 --> 00:28:36.000
nineteen sixty nine where you just kind of say that

469
00:28:36.079 --> 00:28:36.720
he's a typhoid.

470
00:28:36.799 --> 00:28:42.079
Mary, Now, oh COVID and shit like, yeah, we've.

471
00:28:41.880 --> 00:28:44.160
Had the extermination of how many millions of people because

472
00:28:44.200 --> 00:28:46.240
someone said that they were trapped right?

473
00:28:46.920 --> 00:28:50.119
Oh yeah, yeah, it's actually to me. I actually watch it,

474
00:28:50.279 --> 00:28:52.599
and I see him as the most I see him

475
00:28:52.759 --> 00:28:55.839
and the hippies as two totally different actors. Adam is

476
00:28:55.960 --> 00:28:58.279
kind of following him. I see the most people who.

477
00:28:59.839 --> 00:29:02.599
I and just know how many how many people were

478
00:29:02.640 --> 00:29:08.039
co opted by rhetoric that sounded reasonable right by a

479
00:29:08.359 --> 00:29:10.599
passionate and charismatic leader exactly.

480
00:29:11.279 --> 00:29:14.759
That's very populist, It's very like it feels very dangerous

481
00:29:15.480 --> 00:29:17.640
because people do. Like that's the thing that I think.

482
00:29:17.680 --> 00:29:21.799
I'm like, I think the freaking sorry, the mic drop

483
00:29:22.400 --> 00:29:25.599
because Bock has so much empathy for these people. And

484
00:29:25.680 --> 00:29:28.839
then after talking with doctor Severn, who is like, I'm

485
00:29:28.960 --> 00:29:33.839
trapped here. I need to go commune with nature and

486
00:29:33.920 --> 00:29:37.559
Spock going, you realize the place that we are going. Uh,

487
00:29:38.039 --> 00:29:40.759
if you commune with the natives there, you could kill

488
00:29:40.839 --> 00:29:45.119
them yep. And doctor Severn is like, if that is

489
00:29:45.160 --> 00:29:48.599
what it takes, I must be there. We have to

490
00:29:48.640 --> 00:29:53.000
reach a greater goal, all of these things to be

491
00:29:53.119 --> 00:29:56.880
able to create life, life to which the hard cut

492
00:29:57.039 --> 00:30:00.160
of Spock going doctor Severn is insane.

493
00:30:00.079 --> 00:30:03.480
Insane and he's fucking right. I hate that man with

494
00:30:03.559 --> 00:30:04.839
every bit of my soul.

495
00:30:05.559 --> 00:30:06.519
Like that is.

496
00:30:08.240 --> 00:30:10.680
Like, that's the thing is that Like he's the villain.

497
00:30:11.440 --> 00:30:15.519
Oh I wrote down that he is speaking of last week.

498
00:30:15.839 --> 00:30:19.880
He's the Shaline Woodley of the Gallaxy. Yeah, Like he

499
00:30:20.079 --> 00:30:22.440
is someone that is so crunchy.

500
00:30:22.759 --> 00:30:25.920
He is Robert F. Kennedy. He is like, I would

501
00:30:26.039 --> 00:30:28.119
like to put people in charge that we're going to

502
00:30:28.160 --> 00:30:30.039
take all the floride out of the water. And like

503
00:30:30.200 --> 00:30:32.640
he's like, we're gonna do all these things and like

504
00:30:32.680 --> 00:30:38.319
you're gonna fucking kill the world because of your insane

505
00:30:38.480 --> 00:30:42.519
ideas that are purely selfish, purely selfish. They have nothing

506
00:30:42.559 --> 00:30:44.720
to do with anybody else as well being I hate

507
00:30:44.720 --> 00:30:46.119
that man, I hate our Robert F.

508
00:30:46.200 --> 00:30:48.960
Kennedy with all And there's a huge swath of the

509
00:30:49.000 --> 00:30:52.359
population who is like, good, I want someone selfish, which

510
00:30:52.400 --> 00:30:53.839
is bananas.

511
00:30:54.160 --> 00:30:56.400
So I think that that is like, that is why

512
00:30:56.480 --> 00:31:00.599
this episode is interesting, because yeah, it does feel like

513
00:31:02.440 --> 00:31:04.680
it's both. It feels like we are coming You're right,

514
00:31:04.720 --> 00:31:07.200
we're coming out on the side of like these are

515
00:31:07.440 --> 00:31:10.799
dumb kids, dumb rich kids who had to see what happened,

516
00:31:10.880 --> 00:31:13.000
like had to like find you know, like fuck around

517
00:31:13.039 --> 00:31:19.000
and find out right, And I don't I don't want

518
00:31:19.039 --> 00:31:21.359
it to be that way though, Like, no, I.

519
00:31:22.920 --> 00:31:23.720
I don't want that.

520
00:31:24.039 --> 00:31:24.640
I want.

521
00:31:25.960 --> 00:31:26.559
Like, I think.

522
00:31:26.519 --> 00:31:30.559
Ultimately there is something to be said about pushing back

523
00:31:32.000 --> 00:31:32.720
on a structure.

524
00:31:33.039 --> 00:31:36.200
Yeah, you say that you don't want it to be that. Yeah,

525
00:31:36.240 --> 00:31:39.880
well I think it's time to dig into the.

526
00:31:39.960 --> 00:31:42.319
Research actress in library computer data.

527
00:31:44.880 --> 00:31:51.160
So yeah, notoriously, Yeah, this is the final episode of

528
00:31:51.279 --> 00:31:55.680
Star Trek, the original series that Dorothy Fontana works on Yes.

529
00:31:57.920 --> 00:31:59.880
Kramer, The The Kramer.

530
00:32:02.519 --> 00:32:07.599
The original episode they land on the planet, they discovered

531
00:32:07.640 --> 00:32:10.759
that the former inhabitants of this world were indeed a beautiful,

532
00:32:10.799 --> 00:32:13.319
peace loving people. However, in time they allowed their primitive

533
00:32:13.319 --> 00:32:16.079
emotions to take over, leading to a planet wide war

534
00:32:16.160 --> 00:32:23.000
of expermination. That sounds different, yeah, but yeah. This episode

535
00:32:23.119 --> 00:32:27.839
was originally a doctor McCoy episode, okay, and it is

536
00:32:28.039 --> 00:32:34.759
one of the great unmade episodes of Star Trek. And

537
00:32:35.039 --> 00:32:39.039
that ending was a reflection of doctor McCoy and his

538
00:32:39.559 --> 00:32:41.400
estranged daughter Joanna.

539
00:32:43.279 --> 00:32:46.640
So this sounds very different than what DC originally wrote.

540
00:32:46.839 --> 00:32:52.039
Extremely different. And so this was talking about a generational

541
00:32:52.119 --> 00:32:58.960
clash between her absentee father and his estranged daughter, Okay,

542
00:33:00.160 --> 00:33:05.079
And that was after a notes pass aspen. Here is

543
00:33:05.559 --> 00:33:10.359
the original idea for Joanna by Dorothy Fontana, the Great

544
00:33:10.400 --> 00:33:14.000
Dorothy Fontana. Dorothy Fontana came up and reading from these

545
00:33:14.039 --> 00:33:17.160
the Voyages season three by Mark Cushmaniss and Osborne. Dorothy

546
00:33:17.240 --> 00:33:19.680
Fontana came up with the premise for Joanna in nineteen

547
00:33:19.720 --> 00:33:22.880
sixty seven after talking with the Forest Kelly. She had

548
00:33:22.920 --> 00:33:25.000
suggested it might be interesting to do a story in

549
00:33:25.039 --> 00:33:27.640
which we discover McCoy has a son from the failed

550
00:33:27.640 --> 00:33:30.599
marriage he never talks about. Kelly suggested it not be

551
00:33:30.680 --> 00:33:35.359
a son, but a daughter. Here's the original premise. The

552
00:33:35.519 --> 00:33:37.799
USS Enterprise stops at a star base to pick up

553
00:33:37.880 --> 00:33:42.400
new medical personnel being transferred to duty aboard. As the

554
00:33:42.480 --> 00:33:44.799
group of doctors and nurses being a board, McCoy and

555
00:33:44.880 --> 00:33:47.119
Kirk greet them in the transporter room. One of the women,

556
00:33:47.440 --> 00:33:49.640
a lovely, dark haired girl of a twenty, takes one

557
00:33:49.680 --> 00:33:52.160
look at McCoy and flings herself into his arms, much

558
00:33:52.200 --> 00:33:55.240
to Kaptain Kirk's surprise. Nim McCoy turns to Kirk grimaces

559
00:33:55.279 --> 00:33:59.319
and introduces his nurse, Joanna McCoy, his daughter. The heart

560
00:33:59.400 --> 00:34:03.200
of this story concerns Captain Kirk McCoy and Joanna. We

561
00:34:03.559 --> 00:34:05.480
learned that McCoy had been married a long time ago,

562
00:34:05.559 --> 00:34:08.960
but it turns sour and ended in divorce. McCoy soon

563
00:34:09.000 --> 00:34:12.159
after joined the Space Service. In the course of the story,

564
00:34:12.440 --> 00:34:15.199
Kirk will find himself drawn to Joanna, and she is

565
00:34:15.440 --> 00:34:19.119
naturally attracted to him. This situation will turn our usually

566
00:34:19.239 --> 00:34:23.440
competent and amiable doctor into a fiercely protective father, a

567
00:34:23.519 --> 00:34:25.679
situation meant to create a note of humor as well

568
00:34:25.679 --> 00:34:28.760
as conflict. After never seeing much of her father, Joanna

569
00:34:28.880 --> 00:34:32.039
might begin to resent McCoy's sudden fatherliness, especially if it

570
00:34:32.119 --> 00:34:34.440
threatens a deepening relationship with Kirk.

571
00:34:37.519 --> 00:34:43.199
So that's the original episode concept. Yes, this episode is

572
00:34:43.480 --> 00:34:46.880
so far from that concept. The only thing remaining is

573
00:34:47.039 --> 00:34:48.119
generational differences.

574
00:34:48.599 --> 00:34:52.039
Gene Roddenberry was like, there's not enough drama in here. Meanwhile,

575
00:34:52.079 --> 00:34:55.119
I'm reading that and I'm like, this is purely a

576
00:34:55.239 --> 00:34:58.159
character piece that takes place on the starship Enterprise, right,

577
00:34:58.480 --> 00:35:06.440
that gives us depths into challenges, his challenges, his relationship

578
00:35:06.519 --> 00:35:10.920
with Kirk, challenges, the notion of Kirk betting a woman

579
00:35:11.039 --> 00:35:16.840
at every port? What does that mean to McCoy In

580
00:35:16.960 --> 00:35:19.960
an interesting wrinkle while also kind of being a little

581
00:35:20.000 --> 00:35:20.760
bit of a romp.

582
00:35:20.639 --> 00:35:23.440
It sounds like, I will say, the only piece ide

583
00:35:23.840 --> 00:35:26.559
I'm actually feeling a little bit like squiky about his

584
00:35:27.239 --> 00:35:31.360
twenty year old daughter and Kirk.

585
00:35:32.039 --> 00:35:33.719
And I think that's the point.

586
00:35:35.599 --> 00:35:39.599
Well, I don't. Yeah, I wouldn't have trusted anyone to

587
00:35:39.719 --> 00:35:43.239
make that, Okay, Yeah, Like maybe if it were in

588
00:35:43.360 --> 00:35:45.440
the actual form as she intended it to be and

589
00:35:46.159 --> 00:35:49.599
all the commentary were actually there, because otherwise you just

590
00:35:49.679 --> 00:35:51.800
get the feeling of like, what is it Mary, where

591
00:35:51.840 --> 00:35:54.239
it's just like I'm talking to a thirteen year old

592
00:35:54.280 --> 00:35:56.039
and being like, well you're a woman now, like she's

593
00:35:56.079 --> 00:35:57.559
fucking thirteen, stopping weird.

594
00:35:58.920 --> 00:36:02.280
In a subsequent draft, whenever Gene Roddenberry ordered this to

595
00:36:02.880 --> 00:36:07.039
draft proper or no, there is another story outline that

596
00:36:07.440 --> 00:36:10.000
is whenever I think the space hippie element was turned

597
00:36:10.079 --> 00:36:13.320
up a little bit more and it was less of

598
00:36:13.320 --> 00:36:18.079
a romp and more just a straight drama. And I

599
00:36:18.199 --> 00:36:21.199
think the stuff with a relationship with Kirk was dropped

600
00:36:21.960 --> 00:36:27.559
and instead it was just a direct generational thing between

601
00:36:27.840 --> 00:36:32.719
McCoy and Joanna. And then the folks at the network

602
00:36:32.760 --> 00:36:35.119
were like, we don't want McCoy to have a daughter

603
00:36:35.239 --> 00:36:37.239
because that he seems old.

604
00:36:39.760 --> 00:36:40.000
He is.

605
00:36:42.800 --> 00:36:47.320
They weren't even talking necessarily about that he literally had

606
00:36:47.320 --> 00:36:52.320
a twenty year old daughter, more just the emotional timber

607
00:36:52.559 --> 00:36:56.000
he's being a father to a twenty year old. And then, also,

608
00:36:57.119 --> 00:37:00.880
according to Dorothy Fontana, our show run or Fred Freiberger

609
00:37:00.920 --> 00:37:03.400
apparently never read the Star Trek Manual, the Star Trek

610
00:37:03.480 --> 00:37:08.480
Bible writer's Bible because he just assumed that McCoy Kirken's

611
00:37:08.519 --> 00:37:13.440
back were all the same age, and so was like, no,

612
00:37:13.599 --> 00:37:17.559
let's just make it check off. And apparently I actually

613
00:37:17.800 --> 00:37:21.800
really liked check off getting used because I know, using

614
00:37:21.880 --> 00:37:25.280
the ancillary cast, I know even.

615
00:37:25.320 --> 00:37:29.199
Sue Lou gets some brief moment. Yeah, I think, O, whoa,

616
00:37:29.239 --> 00:37:32.199
I saw Michelle Nichols wasn't in this episode because she

617
00:37:32.320 --> 00:37:34.280
was doing a singing engagement.

618
00:37:34.039 --> 00:37:36.000
So I would not be a surprised you get a girl,

619
00:37:36.320 --> 00:37:40.039
So they used the same communication officer from the Doomsday Machine.

620
00:37:40.239 --> 00:37:44.880
YEP, I did. Like that's so interesting. I did like

621
00:37:45.000 --> 00:37:49.119
checkof getting it was more than just a like, oh,

622
00:37:49.320 --> 00:37:52.239
check off with pretty girl thing. It was like challenging

623
00:37:52.679 --> 00:37:58.079
his expectations and his duty, because it was more than

624
00:37:59.280 --> 00:38:02.000
it was like I like someone he missed, someone that

625
00:38:02.119 --> 00:38:04.719
he like felt guilty for leaving and then she was gone,

626
00:38:04.719 --> 00:38:06.400
when like it was like he felt like he did

627
00:38:06.480 --> 00:38:09.039
something wrong, which I think is interesting and emotionally compelling,

628
00:38:09.840 --> 00:38:11.920
and then to sort of be used by her feels

629
00:38:11.960 --> 00:38:16.599
so feels so like such a betrayal, Like it truly does,

630
00:38:16.679 --> 00:38:20.760
because I actually think that like he's playing it so

631
00:38:21.360 --> 00:38:25.920
committed and so authentically like sweet baby boy. It just

632
00:38:26.039 --> 00:38:27.320
like he looks so sad.

633
00:38:28.440 --> 00:38:31.639
So I do wish that we had gotten the version

634
00:38:31.719 --> 00:38:34.519
of this episode, which we would have seen the lovable

635
00:38:34.599 --> 00:38:38.360
doctor McCoy be an outright bad father, right, would that

636
00:38:38.400 --> 00:38:41.559
would have been so interesting. In a subsequent draft, he

637
00:38:41.719 --> 00:38:44.840
calls his ex wife a witch and then compares his

638
00:38:45.079 --> 00:38:48.679
daughter to his ex wife, saying she's a witch. She'll

639
00:38:48.760 --> 00:38:50.000
do nothing but take from you.

640
00:38:50.400 --> 00:38:55.280
And I'm like, whoa Jesus Christ? Just a little bit.

641
00:38:56.920 --> 00:39:00.519
I don't know, Yike Serny, And I think that's kind

642
00:39:00.559 --> 00:39:03.079
of the point. Well, and to me, I'll tell you

643
00:39:03.199 --> 00:39:03.559
I need.

644
00:39:03.559 --> 00:39:04.679
To write that kind of an episode.

645
00:39:04.840 --> 00:39:06.880
But Dorothy Fontana, well, I'll tell you that that sounds

646
00:39:06.880 --> 00:39:08.320
like a different episode than this one.

647
00:39:08.440 --> 00:39:09.079
It does.

648
00:39:09.400 --> 00:39:11.880
I wish it were a different episode. I wish it also.

649
00:39:12.000 --> 00:39:14.079
I wish that episode had been made, and it would

650
00:39:14.079 --> 00:39:17.960
it would have been a pure, a pure character study episode,

651
00:39:17.960 --> 00:39:20.000
because we used to get those, and it would have

652
00:39:20.000 --> 00:39:22.239
been and it would have been good. It's so funny

653
00:39:22.280 --> 00:39:25.079
that for you to say that. I genuinely thought that,

654
00:39:25.280 --> 00:39:30.239
like more of the the DNA of her original story

655
00:39:30.280 --> 00:39:32.079
would be in this and I swear that is nothing

656
00:39:32.199 --> 00:39:33.960
like what this episode is not in anyway.

657
00:39:34.320 --> 00:39:37.039
And she was very disappointed in the episode that resulted,

658
00:39:37.079 --> 00:39:40.639
and quite rightly so, yeah, because it's nothing like the

659
00:39:40.719 --> 00:39:44.039
thing that she wanted to write, and it's sincerely just

660
00:39:44.119 --> 00:39:47.719
got noted into a completely different episode, to the point

661
00:39:47.760 --> 00:39:53.519
where Dorothy Fontana walked away from her contract and because

662
00:39:53.559 --> 00:39:56.840
of it, according to these of the voyages, gave up

663
00:39:57.039 --> 00:40:00.320
ten thousand dollars. Wow, that's a lot of money to

664
00:40:00.400 --> 00:40:03.840
meet right now. Ten thousand dollars in nineteen sixties money.

665
00:40:04.639 --> 00:40:08.159
Good lord, But she was like that, I don't ever

666
00:40:08.239 --> 00:40:10.320
want to do a bad story. She thought that it

667
00:40:10.400 --> 00:40:11.840
was a bad story, and so she walked.

668
00:40:12.320 --> 00:40:15.079
I thought I thought that there was another episode that

669
00:40:15.159 --> 00:40:18.000
I thought that she walked. I was surprised to see

670
00:40:18.000 --> 00:40:19.719
her name because I thought she had already quit.

671
00:40:20.239 --> 00:40:23.400
She did too, she had quit from season three. I

672
00:40:23.480 --> 00:40:27.960
guess she had a longer contract and instead violated the

673
00:40:28.039 --> 00:40:31.719
terms of those contracts, that contract and walked away from

674
00:40:31.760 --> 00:40:36.320
ten thousand dollars. I mean, good for her, but I

675
00:40:36.400 --> 00:40:38.800
fear not aspen. This is not the last that we

676
00:40:38.840 --> 00:40:41.119
will hear from Dorothy Fontana, isn't.

677
00:40:41.119 --> 00:40:45.119
Doesn't she come back in the animated ones.

678
00:40:46.559 --> 00:40:47.559
And not just animated?

679
00:40:47.880 --> 00:40:52.079
Yeap, it TG not just tg.

680
00:40:54.000 --> 00:40:55.320
We'll get to it in a couple of years.

681
00:40:55.960 --> 00:41:00.559
A couple of years uses Christ. Well, okay, so coming

682
00:41:00.599 --> 00:41:04.519
back to this episode, a good episode, I do think

683
00:41:04.639 --> 00:41:05.920
I do think it's a good episode.

684
00:41:06.079 --> 00:41:09.639
I can't be sure. Yeah, if you don't like it

685
00:41:10.000 --> 00:41:12.599
based on because you can't get with the singing, it's

686
00:41:12.599 --> 00:41:13.159
not going to fall.

687
00:41:13.480 --> 00:41:15.800
Yeah you're not gonna like it. Then yeah, I actually

688
00:41:16.559 --> 00:41:18.400
there was a oh, there was actually, oh, there was

689
00:41:18.440 --> 00:41:21.239
a moment I actually where I forgave all the singing

690
00:41:21.840 --> 00:41:26.760
because they break him out of his space and break

691
00:41:26.800 --> 00:41:29.000
the doctor out of the little cell he was in

692
00:41:30.119 --> 00:41:39.880
and just because Irena has tricked Chekhov effectively googa let

693
00:41:39.960 --> 00:41:48.039
googa gin, She's she's tricked to like basically into revealing

694
00:41:48.079 --> 00:41:54.039
to her how the auxiliary the auxiliary power control system works.

695
00:41:54.639 --> 00:41:59.360
And so they've taken over the ship and batty doctor

696
00:41:59.599 --> 00:42:02.400
turns to where like there's like a high frequency sound

697
00:42:02.639 --> 00:42:05.760
that will knock them out, and they are under like

698
00:42:05.800 --> 00:42:07.760
one of the Marina's understandably like, but that could like

699
00:42:07.960 --> 00:42:10.000
that could really seriously kill them, I could hurt them.

700
00:42:10.039 --> 00:42:11.159
They're just like, oh my god, to go.

701
00:42:12.719 --> 00:42:15.719
And as like we reach brother, we reach.

702
00:42:16.360 --> 00:42:20.320
And there's this piece where there's just a just a

703
00:42:20.480 --> 00:42:25.159
scene of people slumped over on the bridge and people

704
00:42:25.280 --> 00:42:28.920
just knocked out and he's just singing and it's just

705
00:42:29.079 --> 00:42:32.119
his voice and just this like stillness of people that

706
00:42:32.159 --> 00:42:34.920
could possibly be dead, and I feel like and what

707
00:42:35.039 --> 00:42:38.679
it was, I just thought it was this wild sort

708
00:42:38.719 --> 00:42:44.480
of setting these different objectives against each other of like this,

709
00:42:44.639 --> 00:42:46.679
there is like a selfishness to that. There's such a

710
00:42:46.800 --> 00:42:49.440
distinct selfishness to a thing that they are doing, and

711
00:42:49.599 --> 00:42:51.679
yet they think that they are that it is for

712
00:42:51.840 --> 00:42:55.599
a greater good and instead a greater good, the greater

713
00:42:55.800 --> 00:42:58.760
good and so, but they are doing it at the

714
00:42:58.840 --> 00:43:01.800
expense of here they're he lives, and so it had

715
00:43:01.840 --> 00:43:05.599
this really wild atmosphere to me that was I thought,

716
00:43:05.679 --> 00:43:07.920
a really beautiful shot, which is not often a thing

717
00:43:07.960 --> 00:43:10.559
I think of when I'm watching Star Trek. I'm not

718
00:43:10.639 --> 00:43:13.199
thinking about often the photography of the thing. But it

719
00:43:13.360 --> 00:43:18.320
was just like, oh, it was very chilling, because again, ultimately,

720
00:43:18.440 --> 00:43:21.320
while I feel like a bunch of compassion for them,

721
00:43:21.360 --> 00:43:23.920
the same way Spock does, where it's like I think

722
00:43:24.039 --> 00:43:27.159
that you are misguided, but ultimately you are actually heading

723
00:43:27.239 --> 00:43:30.320
toward the right, Like I think I understand what you're

724
00:43:30.400 --> 00:43:34.719
trying to get to right now, you it is the

725
00:43:34.800 --> 00:43:35.719
wrong way to get there.

726
00:43:37.280 --> 00:43:42.199
Uh, speaking of chilling, how chilling was it at the

727
00:43:42.440 --> 00:43:46.079
end of Innocence of Ryelock whenever Boil and wax or

728
00:43:46.119 --> 00:43:47.840
went don't be afraid, will be back.

729
00:43:50.320 --> 00:43:51.039
It's a good segue.

730
00:43:51.119 --> 00:43:51.760
Thank you, thank you.

731
00:43:52.480 --> 00:43:54.800
I did realize we're talking about this, like, but I

732
00:43:54.920 --> 00:43:56.599
was as I was watching this episode, I was like

733
00:43:57.079 --> 00:43:59.039
the Star Trek episode. I was like, oh my god,

734
00:43:59.159 --> 00:44:01.119
we're I can get need to talk about so.

735
00:44:01.239 --> 00:44:05.239
Much with this it is It's just steal a phrase

736
00:44:05.320 --> 00:44:09.360
from Star Wars prequel producer Rick McCallum. It's so dense.

737
00:44:09.400 --> 00:44:11.480
Every single image has so much going on, and there's

738
00:44:11.519 --> 00:44:13.840
a lot to talk about with Way to Eat, both

739
00:44:13.880 --> 00:44:16.679
in terms of what it's saying about nineteen sixty nine,

740
00:44:16.920 --> 00:44:21.639
how it plays now, what it means politically freaking that

741
00:44:21.800 --> 00:44:24.239
context of it being generated by a fifty eight to

742
00:44:24.280 --> 00:44:27.280
fifty nine year old or the final teleplaye being generated

743
00:44:27.320 --> 00:44:29.599
by a fifty eight to fifty nine year old writer

744
00:44:30.079 --> 00:44:32.480
along with like old white dudes who are definitely the

745
00:44:32.639 --> 00:44:36.519
establishment and not part of the youth culture. That perspective

746
00:44:36.599 --> 00:44:41.159
is interesting. How they are extending that empathy. How it

747
00:44:41.320 --> 00:44:43.639
is testing our natures of what the concepts of Star

748
00:44:43.760 --> 00:44:47.039
Trek are. How the characters that we love seem so

749
00:44:47.320 --> 00:44:51.280
out of touch being Herberts themselves at separate spot. It

750
00:44:51.400 --> 00:44:55.440
is a very to coin a phrase fascinating episode.

751
00:44:55.599 --> 00:44:58.519
And can I just say last thing about it? That

752
00:44:58.719 --> 00:45:05.159
is what's frust That is what frustrates me, is I

753
00:45:05.360 --> 00:45:08.599
think that that perception. I get the extension of compassion,

754
00:45:08.639 --> 00:45:12.800
but the perception of a youth movement of the sixties

755
00:45:12.840 --> 00:45:18.559
and the seventies, which wasn't foolish like, which was trying

756
00:45:18.760 --> 00:45:23.840
to achieve justice and equality, which was subsequently sacrificed for

757
00:45:24.039 --> 00:45:27.440
class status. I do think like to look at that

758
00:45:27.599 --> 00:45:29.760
was such like with kind of like, well, you're just

759
00:45:29.960 --> 00:45:33.440
children who will figure out the truth later. Stinks of me,

760
00:45:33.599 --> 00:45:35.440
of stinks to me of like, well, when you're older,

761
00:45:35.519 --> 00:45:37.880
you'll be a conservative, you know, like my dad used

762
00:45:37.920 --> 00:45:40.480
to say, the same man who was part of those movements, right,

763
00:45:40.960 --> 00:45:44.599
but then he never was, but other people as age were,

764
00:45:44.760 --> 00:45:44.920
you know.

765
00:45:45.599 --> 00:45:46.280
Yeah, And so.

766
00:45:47.760 --> 00:45:53.679
I feel angry about it. But then also I think

767
00:45:53.760 --> 00:45:57.159
that's why I like the complexity of it. There's a

768
00:45:57.320 --> 00:45:59.920
different kind of there's so many conversations to come from it.

769
00:46:00.760 --> 00:46:05.599
This is an interesting episode in terms of in terms

770
00:46:05.719 --> 00:46:11.559
of the oh gosh, the establishment, how it is reacting

771
00:46:11.679 --> 00:46:18.320
to in a sense, we're in way to eat and

772
00:46:18.400 --> 00:46:25.320
we have more possibly coda within the episode as naive

773
00:46:26.519 --> 00:46:30.239
in a sense that is ideologically driven. Here we are

774
00:46:30.599 --> 00:46:37.000
dealing with ostensibly the embodiment of innocence in this little child,

775
00:46:37.519 --> 00:46:40.880
and how and how this current establishment is dealing with it,

776
00:46:41.000 --> 00:46:44.199
and then not only that but its prequel status playing

777
00:46:44.239 --> 00:46:50.000
with those notions, dimensionalizing it even more, dimensionalizing our clones

778
00:46:50.079 --> 00:46:53.079
even more, because I think also up to this point,

779
00:46:53.440 --> 00:46:59.400
sure we've had a rebellious clone, which that rebelliousness was

780
00:46:59.519 --> 00:47:04.400
embodied in an ideological difference. Here we got straight up

781
00:47:04.519 --> 00:47:10.719
racist clone. I do not want to be here, and

782
00:47:10.880 --> 00:47:13.800
then is able to learn his lesson that racism is bad.

783
00:47:14.159 --> 00:47:17.679
Over the course of the episode, he just he.

784
00:47:17.800 --> 00:47:21.679
Just had to meet someone, to meet someone from a

785
00:47:21.719 --> 00:47:22.400
different culture.

786
00:47:23.039 --> 00:47:25.400
I didn't know that there could be other people that

787
00:47:25.480 --> 00:47:27.239
are good in another culture.

788
00:47:27.800 --> 00:47:29.800
I didn't think I could find a sweet little girl.

789
00:47:30.320 --> 00:47:31.920
To be fair, he's like three years old though.

790
00:47:32.159 --> 00:47:37.559
Yeah, watching Joel my partner was like, they're the same age,

791
00:47:40.559 --> 00:47:49.000
you're too late. It's a very it's a one. It's

792
00:47:49.000 --> 00:47:52.880
a beautiful episode. It is artistically gorgeous. It is interesting

793
00:47:53.000 --> 00:47:55.039
in that it starts. It's got a lot of really

794
00:47:56.480 --> 00:48:00.239
powerful action that balances so well with these quiet or

795
00:48:00.360 --> 00:48:05.920
moments of like of characters getting to interact with one

796
00:48:05.960 --> 00:48:10.880
another and discover and explore and extend compassion, be better.

797
00:48:12.840 --> 00:48:18.440
So it yeah, humanizes clones, which we love, and gives things,

798
00:48:19.360 --> 00:48:21.679
not just in a good way, but right, well that's

799
00:48:21.679 --> 00:48:23.079
what it is to be a human right is to

800
00:48:23.920 --> 00:48:26.639
be many things, not just good all the time, not

801
00:48:26.840 --> 00:48:30.840
just like fighting for this thing. Yeah he is. He's

802
00:48:30.880 --> 00:48:33.039
clearly I don't remember to what it is, but if

803
00:48:33.079 --> 00:48:37.079
it's boiled or whatever it is, he uh yeah, he's

804
00:48:37.119 --> 00:48:41.239
got his own opinions on things. It has had a

805
00:48:41.360 --> 00:48:46.800
very strong sort of like racist US troops in Middle

806
00:48:46.840 --> 00:48:49.360
Eastern countries kind of vibeing like well, just doing it

807
00:48:49.400 --> 00:48:51.360
for the country man, and then being like, oh wait,

808
00:48:51.400 --> 00:48:52.400
they're human beings.

809
00:48:53.079 --> 00:48:56.480
One boil is the racist onelah, that's what I figure.

810
00:48:56.480 --> 00:49:04.960
Idea Two, he's got a porn stash, straight up porn. Oh.

811
00:49:05.000 --> 00:49:08.880
I guess it's like he's got the fatal hair that

812
00:49:08.960 --> 00:49:16.679
all racists have h the handlebar the dbar uh and

813
00:49:17.119 --> 00:49:20.960
uh so boiler is that? And then two uh listening

814
00:49:21.000 --> 00:49:25.119
to a more civilized age podcast for wonderful research and

815
00:49:25.199 --> 00:49:28.800
context giving. Uh. It was one of the hosts that

816
00:49:28.920 --> 00:49:33.559
pointed out that tailhead is only a couple letters away

817
00:49:33.639 --> 00:49:38.800
from an actual slur that was being used frequently. Uh,

818
00:49:40.199 --> 00:49:41.679
not just at the time, but I'm sure this is

819
00:49:41.719 --> 00:49:46.400
being used even now, as I'm sure our all of

820
00:49:46.480 --> 00:49:49.239
our right wing family members are still rallying against all

821
00:49:49.280 --> 00:49:50.400
of those Muslims.

822
00:49:50.760 --> 00:49:53.719
Yep, you're absolutely, yeah, absolutely right. Like there's a very

823
00:49:53.880 --> 00:50:00.320
clear parallel which brings up again, but Kenny brings it

824
00:50:00.400 --> 00:50:04.880
up again of the idea of this is a very patriotic,

825
00:50:05.039 --> 00:50:08.519
nationalistic kind of episode, like there are like I am

826
00:50:08.639 --> 00:50:11.320
not saying that the Republic is not fucking saving lives,

827
00:50:11.400 --> 00:50:15.760
like very clearly tilk's are being kept hostage and this

828
00:50:15.880 --> 00:50:18.079
is horrifying. They're being used as human shields.

829
00:50:18.239 --> 00:50:23.920
And also, you know, except like that nationalism, Uh, I

830
00:50:24.079 --> 00:50:27.920
don't think is oh boy, this is going to make

831
00:50:27.960 --> 00:50:31.519
me seem like a dumb, dumbing dumb I don't think

832
00:50:31.599 --> 00:50:36.920
that nationalism is obvious enough. Sure, I think you have

833
00:50:37.000 --> 00:50:39.559
watched the entirety of Clone Wars, and I have also

834
00:50:39.679 --> 00:50:44.719
heard extra tactually that Dave Filoni, all of these episodes

835
00:50:44.760 --> 00:50:47.320
are presented through the lens of propaganda for the Republic.

836
00:50:47.960 --> 00:50:51.199
Great you've heard this, yes, yeah.

837
00:50:51.159 --> 00:50:53.519
Sorry, I was just thinking about how halfway through when

838
00:50:53.519 --> 00:50:55.719
the bugs showed up the bug kind of creatures, I went, oh,

839
00:50:55.760 --> 00:50:58.760
it's Starship Troopers. And now I'm thinking about now that's

840
00:50:59.320 --> 00:51:03.199
Starship Troops, which impropaganda type, like it's supposed to be

841
00:51:03.239 --> 00:51:04.519
like a property cannon type film.

842
00:51:04.960 --> 00:51:08.880
Yes, and also a movie that was watched with dead

843
00:51:09.000 --> 00:51:10.400
seriousness in my household.

844
00:51:10.679 --> 00:51:13.400
Yes, I know that's because that's the point of the

845
00:51:13.480 --> 00:51:16.920
film is that it could then be watched by people

846
00:51:16.960 --> 00:51:19.599
who would then be like, ah, yes, right.

847
00:51:20.239 --> 00:51:22.719
Right, But then what is the what what is the

848
00:51:22.760 --> 00:51:26.960
function of a piece of art where certain people get

849
00:51:27.000 --> 00:51:31.719
suckered in to propagate that thing, which just causes other

850
00:51:31.840 --> 00:51:34.000
folks that are in the know to then be able

851
00:51:34.039 --> 00:51:37.519
to just point and laugh. How how much of rubes

852
00:51:37.559 --> 00:51:38.519
those people are?

853
00:51:39.119 --> 00:51:42.280
I mean, we've talked about I think we did a

854
00:51:42.320 --> 00:51:44.519
picture on an episode where we talked about Starship Trippers

855
00:51:44.519 --> 00:51:46.119
because I really wanted to talk about it. With you

856
00:51:46.719 --> 00:51:48.239
and trying to remember what we talked about.

857
00:51:48.280 --> 00:51:48.320
That.

858
00:51:48.480 --> 00:51:53.159
Like, the reason I watched it was because it started

859
00:51:53.199 --> 00:51:55.239
coming up on Twitter a lot recently at the time,

860
00:51:55.639 --> 00:51:57.440
and I was like, I've never seen this post was

861
00:51:57.440 --> 00:52:01.000
like a video game that had was had something to

862
00:52:01.079 --> 00:52:03.199
do with it, right, and that's why I started coming

863
00:52:03.280 --> 00:52:05.480
up and I was like, I've never seen this film,

864
00:52:05.480 --> 00:52:08.840
so I don't. So people started posting about the posts

865
00:52:09.440 --> 00:52:11.960
where they're like it would be like, I think people

866
00:52:12.039 --> 00:52:16.360
don't understand Starship Troopers because the people posting are like

867
00:52:16.440 --> 00:52:19.599
taking it face for face value. I don't think we

868
00:52:19.760 --> 00:52:22.239
know how people are going to take our art. We

869
00:52:22.360 --> 00:52:24.760
can have an intention for our art, but we don't

870
00:52:24.840 --> 00:52:26.920
know how it is going to be perceived. I don't

871
00:52:27.000 --> 00:52:31.320
know if the creator of Starship Troopers was like I

872
00:52:31.800 --> 00:52:34.599
want to fool the dummies or if they're if it

873
00:52:34.719 --> 00:52:37.760
was like I want to maybe he did he did, Well,

874
00:52:37.800 --> 00:52:39.679
then there you go. But I mean, like I and

875
00:52:39.800 --> 00:52:41.960
so I think it is a valid question to be like,

876
00:52:42.119 --> 00:52:45.719
so if it is just fueling it becomes a source

877
00:52:45.760 --> 00:52:48.280
of propaganda for people who would take it the wrong way,

878
00:52:48.360 --> 00:52:50.360
is that ultimately damaging because all it does is it

879
00:52:50.400 --> 00:52:54.239
gives us are the good smart people being like, well,

880
00:52:54.280 --> 00:52:57.360
they're dumb dumbs. It's a good valid for.

881
00:52:57.400 --> 00:52:59.519
People that are only listening to the audio only fece

882
00:52:59.639 --> 00:53:01.880
Right now, I'm pointing my finger at AskMen, because this

883
00:53:01.960 --> 00:53:04.519
gets back to our question that our good listener Austin

884
00:53:04.599 --> 00:53:07.159
Aaron got talked about last week, which we talked about

885
00:53:07.199 --> 00:53:11.440
at length, which is context. What is the value of context?

886
00:53:11.880 --> 00:53:14.280
But within with a piece of art and for something

887
00:53:14.320 --> 00:53:18.199
link Starship Troopers, it is possible that there is a

888
00:53:20.280 --> 00:53:22.679
large piece of the audience who needs that context of

889
00:53:23.000 --> 00:53:26.960
this is satire, possibly because so much of American cina.

890
00:53:27.239 --> 00:53:31.199
Oh am, I the problem. American cinema has adopted these

891
00:53:31.559 --> 00:53:35.440
aesthetics of fascism in order to indicate power. So maybe

892
00:53:35.480 --> 00:53:37.760
it is the ultimate piece of satire because it can

893
00:53:37.800 --> 00:53:40.599
be read as a traditional action movie. Oh no, did

894
00:53:40.679 --> 00:53:43.280
I argue myself out of my own point? The whole

895
00:53:43.320 --> 00:53:45.320
system corrupted? Am I? People?

896
00:53:46.199 --> 00:53:49.960
It's you? Oh no, No, I mean I don't think so.

897
00:53:50.039 --> 00:53:52.000
I think you're bringing up a really valid kind of

898
00:53:52.199 --> 00:53:54.719
like to what end, Well, not just me, Austin Aaron.

899
00:53:55.039 --> 00:53:57.280
Oh well, I don't think Yeah, I mean I I

900
00:53:59.119 --> 00:54:02.559
don't I think It's one of those where it's like

901
00:54:04.800 --> 00:54:07.800
we can't we can't say what someone is going to

902
00:54:07.880 --> 00:54:09.880
do with what we put out there into the world,

903
00:54:10.400 --> 00:54:14.599
like I think, which is a different it's different for

904
00:54:14.719 --> 00:54:16.760
like media and are different than art that I would

905
00:54:16.760 --> 00:54:21.519
say for like journalism. By the way, you know, I

906
00:54:21.679 --> 00:54:26.800
think you know art what you're I think someone here's

907
00:54:26.840 --> 00:54:29.960
the thing. I think someone who wants Starship Troopers to

908
00:54:30.480 --> 00:54:34.599
be straightforward and not satire, when even when given the

909
00:54:34.719 --> 00:54:37.719
context of it being satire, would still be like, it's

910
00:54:37.800 --> 00:54:40.480
not and I believe in everything that just was sent down, you.

911
00:54:40.480 --> 00:54:43.280
Know what I mean? You know what this is reminding

912
00:54:43.320 --> 00:54:45.400
me of dumb fan theory is that Star Wars fans

913
00:54:45.440 --> 00:54:48.360
will do where they be like Vader is not actually dead,

914
00:54:49.079 --> 00:54:54.920
Palpatine's not actually dead. Uh, Hans Solo survived in those

915
00:54:55.679 --> 00:55:01.039
eye catching thumbnails which present a deliberate misreading of what

916
00:55:01.199 --> 00:55:03.480
the film is telling you in order to look for

917
00:55:04.679 --> 00:55:07.800
the answers that you want, but in that process is

918
00:55:08.079 --> 00:55:11.239
limiting your own way to process art because you want

919
00:55:11.280 --> 00:55:13.239
a certain thing to be true, right.

920
00:55:14.800 --> 00:55:18.079
Right? I mean? And sorry, as we're as you were

921
00:55:18.079 --> 00:55:19.559
saying that, as we were talking about it, it was

922
00:55:19.639 --> 00:55:23.320
like Oh, what is the responsibility medium might.

923
00:55:23.320 --> 00:55:25.960
Have depends on It depends on the size of the

924
00:55:26.039 --> 00:55:28.920
audience that you are aiming for, right, right.

925
00:55:28.880 --> 00:55:33.480
Because we do have a I do think that production

926
00:55:33.639 --> 00:55:36.440
companies with this much power do have a responsibility to

927
00:55:36.519 --> 00:55:39.679
actually tell stories about people of color and to not

928
00:55:39.840 --> 00:55:41.760
kill the black person first anymore. And like you know,

929
00:55:41.920 --> 00:55:46.599
like I do think they do have responsibilities, but like

930
00:55:47.440 --> 00:55:51.400
does a film. Yeah, but beyond that, like are certain pieces,

931
00:55:51.480 --> 00:55:54.360
like what are the responsibilities? Because we know how people

932
00:55:54.440 --> 00:55:59.039
are if they like if someone is is like studies

933
00:55:59.239 --> 00:56:02.159
about if people or told a lie or something and

934
00:56:02.519 --> 00:56:05.480
it takes it's like almost impossible even if you tell

935
00:56:05.519 --> 00:56:07.280
them the truth and the truth and truth afterward, they're

936
00:56:07.360 --> 00:56:10.280
like not going to change their mind. So if something

937
00:56:10.360 --> 00:56:10.920
is pushed at.

938
00:56:10.880 --> 00:56:13.800
Them, just like people cannot change my mind. That the

939
00:56:13.840 --> 00:56:16.360
matrix tise reactions is not a masterpiece. It is a

940
00:56:16.440 --> 00:56:17.079
master piece.

941
00:56:17.480 --> 00:56:23.880
Yeah, it is just like that, just like that, so

942
00:56:24.199 --> 00:56:26.119
I you know, and I don't mean to like be

943
00:56:26.280 --> 00:56:28.199
like and as snry laugh, am I right, because like

944
00:56:29.000 --> 00:56:33.320
and that's true, Like it's true nationalism. Like here's the

945
00:56:33.400 --> 00:56:37.039
other thing. They're fucking saving their actual lives, like they

946
00:56:37.039 --> 00:56:40.960
are literally being starved to death, and they are bombed

947
00:56:41.079 --> 00:56:44.119
and their entire world is being destroyed by the separatists.

948
00:56:44.559 --> 00:56:48.719
They are literally saving them, and they're launching a military

949
00:56:48.800 --> 00:56:50.840
campaign on Rye loath to do.

950
00:56:51.000 --> 00:56:51.039
So.

951
00:56:51.519 --> 00:56:53.079
Now what's going to happen is We're going to get

952
00:56:53.079 --> 00:56:54.679
into the next episode where I think it's going to

953
00:56:54.679 --> 00:56:56.639
actually dive into the complexity of it a little bit

954
00:56:56.719 --> 00:56:59.639
more of like what then is there? Like how we

955
00:56:59.679 --> 00:57:01.840
want to approach this, And I do think that that's

956
00:57:01.960 --> 00:57:03.480
worth keeping.

957
00:57:03.239 --> 00:57:06.679
In mind, which is also the argument possibly again going

958
00:57:06.719 --> 00:57:09.000
back to another thing that Austin Aaron asked us about

959
00:57:09.000 --> 00:57:13.480
about covering these things not as individual episodes. But it's art, sure, sure,

960
00:57:13.719 --> 00:57:17.159
and the arc is one thing, but these things are

961
00:57:17.199 --> 00:57:22.960
presented completely as their own story, one each individual piece,

962
00:57:23.159 --> 00:57:25.280
and you can put them together and it is a

963
00:57:25.440 --> 00:57:31.639
richer experience. And also this piece alone is nationalistic. It

964
00:57:31.760 --> 00:57:38.480
is simplistic about racism. Yeah, how you can get over

965
00:57:38.599 --> 00:57:41.599
racism whenever And I'm stealing, totally stealing this thought from

966
00:57:41.599 --> 00:57:45.440
a more civilized age, but your racism can be solved

967
00:57:45.480 --> 00:57:47.559
whenever you just meet one good one.

968
00:57:48.039 --> 00:57:50.679
Right, and she's tiny and literally.

969
00:57:50.360 --> 00:57:54.760
Innocent, Yes, she is perfect she is the embodiment as

970
00:57:54.800 --> 00:57:58.559
a protection, yeah, as opposed to again a more civilized

971
00:57:58.599 --> 00:58:05.440
age where they're talking about literal poster children and how

972
00:58:06.199 --> 00:58:10.199
these notions of racists getting to have their journey affected

973
00:58:11.159 --> 00:58:17.039
by folks of color, and when when it is completely

974
00:58:17.119 --> 00:58:23.079
offensive like in Green Book or Crash in the problematic

975
00:58:23.159 --> 00:58:28.880
aspects in retrospective, guess who's coming to dinner? Where these

976
00:58:29.039 --> 00:58:34.280
characters of color that are they are absolute scions of

977
00:58:35.239 --> 00:58:37.519
what the cars? What are they are? That's right, they

978
00:58:37.559 --> 00:58:41.559
are embodiments of cars, great cars, wonderful cars that love

979
00:58:41.599 --> 00:58:42.239
to be driven.

980
00:58:43.599 --> 00:58:49.280
Reminds me a bit of you know, like Rosa Parks

981
00:58:50.000 --> 00:58:54.480
being sort of established as the face of the movement

982
00:58:54.480 --> 00:58:58.480
when it was actually a different like a black girl

983
00:58:58.599 --> 00:59:03.519
that kind of would never been seen as uh like

984
00:59:03.639 --> 00:59:08.440
as attractive to a movement obviously do whatever we need

985
00:59:08.559 --> 00:59:10.599
to do kind of thing. But I was just like,

986
00:59:10.679 --> 00:59:13.280
it's the good ones, right, because you know, if it

987
00:59:13.400 --> 00:59:19.639
were an angry young man or something or whatever, it

988
00:59:19.719 --> 00:59:22.119
would be in this this case, in this episode, or

989
00:59:23.000 --> 00:59:26.559
you know, someone who like was frustrated with them being there,

990
00:59:26.679 --> 00:59:29.360
not doing more or something right, But in this case, yeah,

991
00:59:29.440 --> 00:59:32.000
she is just like it's like that, Like she is

992
00:59:32.199 --> 00:59:34.639
a good one and so she gets to aid them

993
00:59:34.719 --> 00:59:40.880
on their journey. She is real cute though.

994
00:59:42.519 --> 00:59:45.000
She's cute by it. She has that little toy sheep

995
00:59:45.119 --> 00:59:46.800
going near nearah.

996
00:59:47.719 --> 00:59:50.800
I mean, I think also and like a twenty twenty

997
00:59:50.880 --> 00:59:52.440
four cents And this was true in two thousand and

998
00:59:52.480 --> 00:59:56.559
nine as well with fucking Wars at Never End. There

999
00:59:56.679 --> 01:00:02.920
is something extremely horrifying about watching a child enter her

1000
01:00:03.000 --> 01:00:05.960
home that has been literally bombed and destroyed, and she

1001
01:00:06.079 --> 01:00:09.360
has not eaten in days, and you don't know if

1002
01:00:09.400 --> 01:00:12.920
her parents are alive or dead, and she is helping you.

1003
01:00:13.400 --> 01:00:16.840
This tiny child should not be helping soldiers, should not

1004
01:00:16.920 --> 01:00:20.320
be running out to help Obi Wan stand up, Like

1005
01:00:20.679 --> 01:00:24.440
I shouldn't have to watch a tiny child be a hero.

1006
01:00:25.159 --> 01:00:28.519
A tiny child should just get to be a fucking kid.

1007
01:00:29.039 --> 01:00:31.519
And then to go back to my seguay about the

1008
01:00:31.599 --> 01:00:35.760
beginning of this yeah, where the soldiers say don't be afraid,

1009
01:00:36.000 --> 01:00:38.760
we'll be back and has another one of those lines

1010
01:00:38.840 --> 01:00:41.320
that works because of the prequel nature, and it's suddenly

1011
01:00:41.360 --> 01:00:44.800
becomes it sounds pretty innocuous in the moment.

1012
01:00:45.239 --> 01:00:47.320
Oh my god, I didn't even realize that's what you're

1013
01:00:47.320 --> 01:00:53.039
getting at because yeah, right, it's actually oh my god,

1014
01:00:53.239 --> 01:00:58.679
right yeah, because yeah, I'll be back, but it will

1015
01:00:58.679 --> 01:01:00.480
be back in the form of a different type of

1016
01:01:01.079 --> 01:01:02.000
military force.

1017
01:01:02.480 --> 01:01:04.880
Yeah, it'll be a clone trooper with round eyes this time,

1018
01:01:05.119 --> 01:01:07.320
not the bulb, not the bulb of that tea.

1019
01:01:07.760 --> 01:01:11.880
Yeah, well all looks will look similar, but not the same.

1020
01:01:11.960 --> 01:01:15.679
We won't also be clones. Uh well, we'll be stored.

1021
01:01:15.719 --> 01:01:19.280
We'll just be shitty kids. But yeah, we'll come back

1022
01:01:19.320 --> 01:01:27.519
looking similar and oh no, oh no, Kenny liberalism to

1023
01:01:27.679 --> 01:01:33.760
fascism cycle. Yeah, and that yeah, kind of leads into

1024
01:01:33.800 --> 01:01:38.159
these once again, Like I mean to view this kind

1025
01:01:38.199 --> 01:01:41.800
of through the the eyes of like a rock Afghanistan

1026
01:01:41.960 --> 01:01:44.239
war like kind of and then to kind of see

1027
01:01:44.280 --> 01:01:46.239
it too and what I'm clearly relating it to, which

1028
01:01:46.320 --> 01:01:49.599
is the destruction of Gaza kind of like it's just

1029
01:01:49.639 --> 01:01:54.880
a deeply horrific thing. Also, it's a beautiful ass episode

1030
01:01:54.960 --> 01:01:59.559
that's absolutely gorgeous and maybe crying. I think it's Obi

1031
01:01:59.599 --> 01:02:02.280
Wan gets to do the coolest ship he does some

1032
01:02:02.440 --> 01:02:05.880
like story. There was like at one point he's got

1033
01:02:05.960 --> 01:02:08.679
all the like the creatures that are coming at them

1034
01:02:08.719 --> 01:02:11.119
that are been by the way starved so that they

1035
01:02:11.199 --> 01:02:14.719
want to like eat people, which is I.

1036
01:02:14.800 --> 01:02:16.519
Believe they're known as Hungry Boys.

1037
01:02:16.760 --> 01:02:19.599
Hungry Boys, that's their official name in the art book.

1038
01:02:23.119 --> 01:02:30.079
George, I want some Hungry Boys. And so we consulted

1039
01:02:30.159 --> 01:02:35.559
some Route McQuary original sketches from Empire that's been do

1040
01:02:35.639 --> 01:02:38.920
the killing punket part do the Killing punkt part us.

1041
01:02:39.000 --> 01:02:41.639
We were looking as we were looking at thee they

1042
01:02:41.679 --> 01:02:44.000
can keep the accent today, That's what we were looking at.

1043
01:02:44.039 --> 01:02:49.239
The designs for the Hungry Boys. We we looked actually

1044
01:02:49.400 --> 01:02:51.880
realized that every single Hungry Boy is actually the same

1045
01:02:52.199 --> 01:02:56.280
same design, just just duplicated over and over again. But

1046
01:02:59.360 --> 01:03:01.960
but really it's all the same hungry Boy, but it

1047
01:03:02.039 --> 01:03:03.920
looks like different hungry.

1048
01:03:09.440 --> 01:03:09.800
One boy.

1049
01:03:10.039 --> 01:03:14.760
Everyone everyone pulls it pulls like I kept being like,

1050
01:03:14.800 --> 01:03:16.800
oh my god, he's been an actual Jedi. Now we're

1051
01:03:16.840 --> 01:03:18.400
doing the thing where he likes sort of like mine

1052
01:03:18.440 --> 01:03:19.280
in controls all over.

1053
01:03:19.360 --> 01:03:21.119
Oh man, that was pretty cool, and.

1054
01:03:21.239 --> 01:03:24.840
Leads them all into this little kind of tunnel space

1055
01:03:25.119 --> 01:03:27.239
and then has the clones shoot down like.

1056
01:03:27.280 --> 01:03:31.199
The It was great because we're talking about we're talking

1057
01:03:31.199 --> 01:03:34.480
about nationalism in regards to this specific episode of Innocence

1058
01:03:34.519 --> 01:03:40.159
Ofmbrella and what best example of talking about the insidious

1059
01:03:40.239 --> 01:03:45.719
nature of propaganda, then whenever you are watching a piece

1060
01:03:45.760 --> 01:03:49.280
of propaganda that is very well done, it's like, this

1061
01:03:49.480 --> 01:03:54.480
is so cool about Jedi Top Gun, Maverick Aspen Top

1062
01:03:55.320 --> 01:03:58.960
your favorite movie, a total piece of propaganda. I'm pretty

1063
01:03:58.960 --> 01:04:01.840
sure that I've had discussions with Heidi, my partner, and

1064
01:04:02.000 --> 01:04:04.239
she's going, I don't think it's propaganda.

1065
01:04:05.079 --> 01:04:09.280
What dud At one point it zooms and on the

1066
01:04:09.400 --> 01:04:11.679
joystick and it says Lockheed Martin.

1067
01:04:12.119 --> 01:04:16.679
Yeah, but it's that, it's that notion where the the

1068
01:04:16.880 --> 01:04:19.679
idea of propaganda that's been pushed on us is freaking

1069
01:04:19.760 --> 01:04:23.519
Triumph of the Will, and it's it it so we

1070
01:04:23.599 --> 01:04:25.960
can see. So we watched Star Wars and we see

1071
01:04:25.960 --> 01:04:29.159
all these shots of all the the throngs and throngs

1072
01:04:29.239 --> 01:04:32.039
of people that are standing at attention for Darth Vader,

1073
01:04:32.119 --> 01:04:35.880
and our brain goes fascists because we have recognized those

1074
01:04:36.760 --> 01:04:40.960
images from newsreels and from Triumph Will and all these

1075
01:04:41.000 --> 01:04:48.719
pieces of propaganda. Meanwhile, uh, freaking look at any MCU movie,

1076
01:04:48.960 --> 01:04:53.800
any freaking anything that involves the military has to have

1077
01:04:53.880 --> 01:04:56.119
a sign from the military, and more than likely that

1078
01:04:56.239 --> 01:04:59.679
depiction of the military. It's probably gonna be cool, right,

1079
01:05:01.159 --> 01:05:01.880
Captain Marble.

1080
01:05:01.960 --> 01:05:04.480
Captain Marble air Force straight up.

1081
01:05:04.599 --> 01:05:06.519
A total piece of Air Force propaganda.

1082
01:05:08.239 --> 01:05:11.440
Yeah, they're I mean, they're all like it's it's very

1083
01:05:11.559 --> 01:05:14.559
much all all military propaganda.

1084
01:05:14.199 --> 01:05:19.480
Iron Man. A contradiction that extremely wealthy industrialists will be

1085
01:05:19.519 --> 01:05:25.880
able to save us from the military by privatizing the military.

1086
01:05:26.800 --> 01:05:32.840
Jesus Christ totally works because Melow vibes dude, because it's

1087
01:05:32.920 --> 01:05:33.800
a good movie.

1088
01:05:35.159 --> 01:05:38.199
You got He's got a house Malibu.

1089
01:05:38.519 --> 01:05:40.679
He's a regular dude. He eats burger King whenever he

1090
01:05:40.719 --> 01:05:44.639
gets back from being a kit kitten. No, it's burger King,

1091
01:05:44.920 --> 01:05:48.480
it is. Yes, How does McDonald's look it up asmen?

1092
01:05:48.559 --> 01:05:50.840
Look, I believe you, I believe you. I just I

1093
01:05:50.880 --> 01:05:53.320
don't know. That just goes to show how strongly McDonald's

1094
01:05:53.320 --> 01:05:54.280
is implanted.

1095
01:05:53.880 --> 01:05:56.039
Itself in my brain propaganda.

1096
01:05:56.440 --> 01:06:02.360
Yeah, this is why I think I am, while ultimately

1097
01:06:02.840 --> 01:06:06.679
I think, yeah, the means and perhaps the goals are misguided.

1098
01:06:06.920 --> 01:06:12.360
In you know that the Star Trek episode Path waited,

1099
01:06:12.480 --> 01:06:15.039
and I'm like, I just forget, Yes, I did, just

1100
01:06:15.119 --> 01:06:16.039
forget the title of Our.

1101
01:06:16.880 --> 01:06:19.519
To be fair, as you did forget the title of

1102
01:06:19.760 --> 01:06:22.519
Revenge of the Sith earlier, I did said Return of

1103
01:06:22.559 --> 01:06:26.239
the I did, which I know that the titles of

1104
01:06:26.320 --> 01:06:27.960
Return of the Jedi are Invenged of the Sith are

1105
01:06:27.960 --> 01:06:30.440
supposed to rhyme, because again it's like poetry, so if

1106
01:06:30.480 --> 01:06:36.199
they rhyme, I did, asked the Star Wars contingent. I

1107
01:06:36.280 --> 01:06:36.559
don't know.

1108
01:06:36.679 --> 01:06:40.559
You can't expect me to remember so many titles.

1109
01:06:41.719 --> 01:06:43.440
I've only got one reaction to that.

1110
01:06:45.840 --> 01:06:49.320
I loved that, dude, I was gonna I was going

1111
01:06:49.360 --> 01:06:53.199
to say, while the specific goals of the hippies and

1112
01:06:53.639 --> 01:06:55.960
the way to Eden and the means of getting something

1113
01:06:56.079 --> 01:06:59.280
is kind of like, yeah, this were a little frustrating

1114
01:06:59.320 --> 01:07:03.400
for me, like to to look at talking about you know,

1115
01:07:03.519 --> 01:07:07.760
we're talking about a militaristic like a military industrial complex

1116
01:07:07.880 --> 01:07:13.559
in which we are like highlighting and uplifting these actions

1117
01:07:13.599 --> 01:07:16.400
that we don't approve of and do not want to

1118
01:07:16.440 --> 01:07:20.440
be funding. So I can understand a counter culture movement

1119
01:07:20.559 --> 01:07:22.440
that does not want to be in support of things

1120
01:07:22.480 --> 01:07:25.719
that are being funded, you know what I mean? Like, again,

1121
01:07:26.079 --> 01:07:29.199
the specifics of the way to eat and are simplistic

1122
01:07:29.280 --> 01:07:31.480
and like see is it as naive, But that does

1123
01:07:31.519 --> 01:07:35.800
not mean that like what they're sort of representing of

1124
01:07:36.000 --> 01:07:42.320
the time, those counterculture movements were not actually truly like valid,

1125
01:07:42.400 --> 01:07:43.559
do you know what I mean? So I don't like,

1126
01:07:44.000 --> 01:07:45.480
I don't like undermining it.

1127
01:07:46.119 --> 01:07:49.000
Just because you are naive is not necessarily a bad thing.

1128
01:07:50.239 --> 01:07:52.320
It can it can be something to be aspired to,

1129
01:07:52.559 --> 01:07:55.679
something to be valued. I mean, children are naive and

1130
01:07:56.000 --> 01:07:58.960
who was held up in higher re cards and American

1131
01:07:59.079 --> 01:08:00.480
society the children.

1132
01:08:00.960 --> 01:08:04.760
I miss the children. I mean I miss the feeling

1133
01:08:04.920 --> 01:08:10.360
sometimes of how politically motivated I was in college, Like,

1134
01:08:10.840 --> 01:08:12.239
I miss it so much.

1135
01:08:12.840 --> 01:08:15.360
I'm sorry, what why?

1136
01:08:15.639 --> 01:08:16.239
What are you?

1137
01:08:16.359 --> 01:08:19.000
What do you mean you're so politically motivated?

1138
01:08:19.199 --> 01:08:20.600
I am I know, I'm sorry.

1139
01:08:20.640 --> 01:08:22.199
I think I just I think I just.

1140
01:08:22.239 --> 01:08:26.680
Had more hope. I think that there was, but I

1141
01:08:26.720 --> 01:08:30.520
think it was also like the era. It was also

1142
01:08:30.680 --> 01:08:33.560
like the era of it because it was literally the

1143
01:08:33.640 --> 01:08:36.520
whole Obama thing of like, oh, like fucking that was

1144
01:08:36.560 --> 01:08:37.039
all hope.

1145
01:08:37.079 --> 01:08:37.560
So I'm not.

1146
01:08:40.239 --> 01:08:42.000
Who didn't? Am I right?

1147
01:08:43.279 --> 01:08:45.840
He said that the robot laugh is the Terminator song.

1148
01:08:47.039 --> 01:08:50.920
What the robot laugh from the episode is the Terminator Cadence?

1149
01:08:51.439 --> 01:08:51.680
It is?

1150
01:08:53.399 --> 01:08:56.600
Is that how he laughs and oh like a terminator.

1151
01:08:57.000 --> 01:09:00.600
He doesn't laugh like that. That's literally the Terminator theme song.

1152
01:09:02.159 --> 01:09:07.199
What I don't know what you mean in the terminator

1153
01:09:07.359 --> 01:09:09.000
Determinator when they're.

1154
01:09:08.840 --> 01:09:15.399
Like, no, I'm sorry, that's that's Phil Collins in the

1155
01:09:15.439 --> 01:09:24.680
air tonight. You're welcome. Doo doo doo doo doo A

1156
01:09:24.800 --> 01:09:25.560
long time ago.

1157
01:09:26.359 --> 01:09:30.680
Start dating. This week, I quoted a boat. I dated

1158
01:09:30.800 --> 01:09:33.960
a geek, but none of them could warp my drive

1159
01:09:34.239 --> 01:09:40.920
into high birth space. The best of both worlds kept

1160
01:09:41.000 --> 01:09:49.520
me in the second place. Captain slog on a halla kron.

1161
01:09:50.199 --> 01:09:51.359
I wanted a song.

1162
01:09:52.000 --> 01:09:53.159
I penn a song.

1163
01:09:54.039 --> 01:10:01.199
Seventeen more minutes advise in super high depth aboard the

1164
01:10:01.479 --> 01:10:10.079
USS Enterprise DT. Don't you take my walk lighter and

1165
01:10:10.159 --> 01:10:13.600
clip it? Don't you take my red schord, buddy and

1166
01:10:13.760 --> 01:10:17.720
nip it? If you spill the tea, I'm gonna zip it.

1167
01:10:18.560 --> 01:10:23.039
A starship it, Hi, asken, what are we doing?

1168
01:10:24.399 --> 01:10:26.680
We are naming our favorite chips that go ship ship

1169
01:10:28.000 --> 01:10:31.119
boo boop to this guy and our favorite ships a

1170
01:10:31.159 --> 01:10:35.760
good to each other in either property excellent.

1171
01:10:35.840 --> 01:10:38.199
I think we've got a plethora of options this week.

1172
01:10:38.720 --> 01:10:41.800
Man, we do we finally? Do we even get we

1173
01:10:41.920 --> 01:10:44.520
get multiple ones in Star Trek We do not usually,

1174
01:10:44.800 --> 01:10:47.640
which is why I think you should let me name

1175
01:10:48.600 --> 01:10:52.720
mine chip first, which is the Aurora from Star Trek

1176
01:10:53.439 --> 01:10:58.520
wait I saw. I mean I watched it on paramounts,

1177
01:10:58.560 --> 01:11:00.319
so I didn't watch the originals. I don't know what

1178
01:11:00.359 --> 01:11:03.439
the original ship looks like, but the ship in the

1179
01:11:03.760 --> 01:11:07.840
you know, the newer version is beautiful, Like the shape

1180
01:11:07.880 --> 01:11:11.079
of it is very cool. It's kind of Star Wars esque,

1181
01:11:11.640 --> 01:11:13.520
like almost like why wing ask? I don't know, I

1182
01:11:13.640 --> 01:11:15.600
just I found it to be very compelling and then

1183
01:11:15.640 --> 01:11:16.239
it went boom.

1184
01:11:17.079 --> 01:11:19.520
Can you do your best to describe the design of

1185
01:11:19.560 --> 01:11:22.159
the Aurora and TS remastered?

1186
01:11:22.760 --> 01:11:22.880
Oh?

1187
01:11:23.159 --> 01:11:26.159
Yeah, well, what does it look like in the original

1188
01:11:27.960 --> 01:11:30.199
m what does it look like in the original the

1189
01:11:30.319 --> 01:11:31.399
non remastered one.

1190
01:11:31.720 --> 01:11:32.239
We'll get to it.

1191
01:11:33.319 --> 01:11:35.760
Okay, okay, that's fun. Let me just take a look

1192
01:11:35.760 --> 01:11:37.199
at it just so I can make sure, because I

1193
01:11:37.279 --> 01:11:39.479
watched it and I was like, ah right, it was

1194
01:11:40.960 --> 01:11:43.680
uh like, it looks like oh that's what it was.

1195
01:11:43.960 --> 01:11:45.680
It was like a little kind of frog.

1196
01:11:46.920 --> 01:11:47.279
I like that.

1197
01:11:47.319 --> 01:11:49.079
It looked like a little like in front of a frog.

1198
01:11:49.119 --> 01:11:51.680
And I was like, and then it had like little

1199
01:11:52.199 --> 01:11:55.439
little I guess this makes sense. It's consistent with design

1200
01:11:55.479 --> 01:11:58.600
around like keeping your power away from your main compotent

1201
01:11:58.680 --> 01:12:00.239
just in case there's things. So it's like there's two

1202
01:12:00.760 --> 01:12:03.119
little guys and a y shape down below. But I

1203
01:12:03.159 --> 01:12:04.760
think what I really liked about it is it looks

1204
01:12:04.800 --> 01:12:05.920
like a loll frog.

1205
01:12:06.600 --> 01:12:06.880
I like.

1206
01:12:07.239 --> 01:12:07.680
I like that.

1207
01:12:07.920 --> 01:12:13.760
Even whenever they dare to redesign something, they're like, what

1208
01:12:13.800 --> 01:12:14.840
would Matt Jeffries do?

1209
01:12:15.279 --> 01:12:18.479
Oh yeah, I mean it's still consistent. It makes sense.

1210
01:12:18.479 --> 01:12:20.840
Matt Jeffrey is all along. But yeah, it's like it's

1211
01:12:20.880 --> 01:12:22.920
like a you know, when a frog is swimming and

1212
01:12:23.000 --> 01:12:25.399
then it like throws its little legs out behind it.

1213
01:12:25.680 --> 01:12:27.520
Yeah, I watched Fox swim every day.

1214
01:12:28.239 --> 01:12:29.680
Yes, that's what the ship looks like.

1215
01:12:30.479 --> 01:12:33.359
I like that. It's great fun.

1216
01:12:35.159 --> 01:12:39.000
And then it excluded those dumb dumbs. That's the thing.

1217
01:12:39.079 --> 01:12:40.840
It was like watching a bunch of rich kids like

1218
01:12:40.920 --> 01:12:42.359
take a car out for joy Ripe.

1219
01:12:42.399 --> 01:12:42.760
Thank you.

1220
01:12:43.279 --> 01:12:46.560
There's something very valid in that interpretation if the episode

1221
01:12:46.600 --> 01:12:48.279
had decided to lean into that a little bit more,

1222
01:12:48.359 --> 01:12:50.560
but it didn't really, and that's fine too. I really

1223
01:12:50.640 --> 01:12:54.960
liked the episode that we got. For me, it was

1224
01:12:55.000 --> 01:12:57.319
already revealed. But my ship is going to be the

1225
01:12:57.399 --> 01:13:01.560
Aurora from Star Trek, the original series, but not the

1226
01:13:01.640 --> 01:13:04.479
remastered version that is in on Paramount Plus, but the

1227
01:13:06.560 --> 01:13:10.000
original version, which if you check on Memory Alpha it

1228
01:13:10.159 --> 01:13:14.359
is the Tholian ship, but in reverse and with NA

1229
01:13:14.520 --> 01:13:21.800
cells put on the sides. Anytime that I believe that's

1230
01:13:21.800 --> 01:13:24.119
the reason that they changed it for the remastered is

1231
01:13:24.680 --> 01:13:27.279
everyone just being like, that's just the Tholian ship in

1232
01:13:27.359 --> 01:13:30.439
the cells. We can do better. So I understand that,

1233
01:13:30.840 --> 01:13:34.760
but I wish that it had kind of been preserved,

1234
01:13:34.840 --> 01:13:38.279
because there is something there. There is something very appealing

1235
01:13:38.319 --> 01:13:42.960
to me about like seeing the dollar getting stretched to

1236
01:13:43.079 --> 01:13:48.439
an unreasonable amount by them literally flipping the ship around

1237
01:13:49.159 --> 01:13:51.560
and putting the cells on it. And also literally no

1238
01:13:51.680 --> 01:13:54.880
one was anticipating this thing being launched more than sixty

1239
01:13:54.960 --> 01:13:55.479
years later.

1240
01:13:58.239 --> 01:14:02.319
Very fair, like it's stay sixty I don't know, sixty nine,

1241
01:14:02.640 --> 01:14:03.359
what years it?

1242
01:14:04.199 --> 01:14:06.399
Oh gosh, in two years, it's going to be sixty

1243
01:14:06.520 --> 01:14:12.960
years kill me, no, okay, yeah, So it's just a

1244
01:14:13.000 --> 01:14:15.760
flipped around Plolion ship with the cells. I think that's

1245
01:14:15.920 --> 01:14:18.439
very cool. And also just the novelty that both of

1246
01:14:18.520 --> 01:14:19.640
us could choose the Aurora.

1247
01:14:20.079 --> 01:14:20.960
I think that's fun.

1248
01:14:21.439 --> 01:14:22.600
I do think that's fun.

1249
01:14:23.920 --> 01:14:24.800
Oh, I think you're fun.

1250
01:14:26.760 --> 01:14:27.119
Moving on.

1251
01:14:31.439 --> 01:14:35.319
My romantic ship is also it's also from Star Trek

1252
01:14:36.239 --> 01:14:37.840
and it is Adam and Spock.

1253
01:14:40.000 --> 01:14:41.279
You love to see it.

1254
01:14:41.640 --> 01:14:49.239
So I loved it. I loved it deeply, Hey, brother, brother,

1255
01:14:49.399 --> 01:14:50.079
Am I right?

1256
01:14:52.760 --> 01:14:52.960
Yeah?

1257
01:14:53.199 --> 01:14:53.520
He was.

1258
01:14:53.880 --> 01:14:56.800
He was giving the new term, giving a new meaning

1259
01:14:56.840 --> 01:14:57.800
to the term we reach.

1260
01:14:59.159 --> 01:15:02.960
We reach each other through our dicks.

1261
01:15:05.840 --> 01:15:07.920
Every time that we make in a double entendo, you

1262
01:15:07.960 --> 01:15:09.880
don't have to finish it by making it explicit.

1263
01:15:11.479 --> 01:15:14.960
We're going to play these instruments together, like we would

1264
01:15:15.000 --> 01:15:27.880
play your dick. Can I blow your flute? Your flu dick?

1265
01:15:29.359 --> 01:15:30.800
You don't play a flute, as.

1266
01:15:32.399 --> 01:15:39.800
If he did, it'd be his dick. And and yeah,

1267
01:15:41.279 --> 01:15:43.319
I know that he was like trying to like get

1268
01:15:43.359 --> 01:15:45.439
in with him and like soften him up. But they

1269
01:15:45.920 --> 01:15:50.319
had jam sessions together. He like Spock was showing genuine

1270
01:15:50.439 --> 01:15:54.920
interest in him. He comes into his office and he's like, wow,

1271
01:15:55.399 --> 01:16:02.119
Red dude speaks in sixties seventies slang of like sort.

1272
01:16:01.960 --> 01:16:03.279
Of he basically does.

1273
01:16:03.720 --> 01:16:07.840
Yeah, he grabs like his the vulcan like kind of harp,

1274
01:16:08.000 --> 01:16:09.640
his vulcan harp, and he wants to hear him play,

1275
01:16:09.680 --> 01:16:11.520
and he does play it, and then later they jam together.

1276
01:16:11.560 --> 01:16:13.640
He James with that girl. He's playing a.

1277
01:16:13.640 --> 01:16:17.079
Wheel sounds man. Yeah, she's playing a wheel.

1278
01:16:17.279 --> 01:16:18.079
It's playing a wheel.

1279
01:16:18.479 --> 01:16:19.000
It's great.

1280
01:16:20.000 --> 01:16:22.279
It was really cool. That was It was really funny

1281
01:16:22.279 --> 01:16:24.560
to me. I texted you this. I was like, everybody

1282
01:16:24.680 --> 01:16:26.800
was being enchanted by them, but they weren't being enchanted.

1283
01:16:26.880 --> 01:16:30.239
They were just like clearly in need of music. They

1284
01:16:30.399 --> 01:16:32.159
just needed to vibe a little bit.

1285
01:16:32.560 --> 01:16:37.760
There is the dude on the bridge, who is He's like, who's.

1286
01:16:37.640 --> 01:16:41.680
Just like bongoing bongoing? Is is like knees He's just.

1287
01:16:41.760 --> 01:16:46.239
Like, yeah, I absolutely adore I really.

1288
01:16:46.319 --> 01:16:47.520
I was just like, it sounds like they all just

1289
01:16:47.640 --> 01:16:52.439
needed some amusing in their lives. So yeah, that's mine,

1290
01:16:52.520 --> 01:16:53.239
that's my pairing.

1291
01:16:53.600 --> 01:16:59.159
Excellent. I'm gonna go with boil and waxer cool for sure.

1292
01:17:00.079 --> 01:17:04.199
We all know aspen it gets lonely on the front line.

1293
01:17:04.359 --> 01:17:07.000
Right and we are skipping out of the fact that

1294
01:17:07.079 --> 01:17:13.000
it's technically incest, but like, who cares? What does that

1295
01:17:13.079 --> 01:17:14.880
even mean? When there's like millions of you?

1296
01:17:15.520 --> 01:17:18.039
Is it incest if it's all from the same DNA?

1297
01:17:19.039 --> 01:17:20.720
Like, oh fucking weird?

1298
01:17:21.359 --> 01:17:21.800
Did you know that?

1299
01:17:22.039 --> 01:17:25.279
That's what you know? That's what identical twins are because

1300
01:17:25.439 --> 01:17:29.239
identical twins come from the same egg. So are the

1301
01:17:29.319 --> 01:17:33.399
same fertilized egg, right, So that's literally the same exact DNA.

1302
01:17:34.039 --> 01:17:36.960
So you have your OVA, you have your like two

1303
01:17:37.000 --> 01:17:39.680
haploid cells that, like you have the egg, you have

1304
01:17:39.720 --> 01:17:42.319
a sperm, come together and make a full cell and

1305
01:17:42.359 --> 01:17:46.399
then with an identical twin. That cell itself is what's splits.

1306
01:17:46.439 --> 01:17:49.600
So identical twins, say the exact same DNA, whereas eternal

1307
01:17:49.640 --> 01:17:54.079
twins are two fertilized eggs. Anyway, so you know that

1308
01:17:54.319 --> 01:17:54.800
is that fun.

1309
01:17:55.079 --> 01:17:57.640
I don't really want to keep doubling down on the question.

1310
01:17:57.960 --> 01:17:58.680
Is that incest?

1311
01:17:59.439 --> 01:18:01.079
I know I shouldn't even said.

1312
01:18:00.920 --> 01:18:05.800
It because listeners will start asking me more questions about

1313
01:18:06.000 --> 01:18:09.880
certain consumption habits that I have. Meanwhile, I'm over here

1314
01:18:09.960 --> 01:18:13.239
standing being like, boiling wax is so fucking hot, asspen

1315
01:18:13.359 --> 01:18:15.319
Oh oh jeez.

1316
01:18:15.600 --> 01:18:18.279
Listen, Forget I said it. Forget I said it. This

1317
01:18:18.359 --> 01:18:20.840
is a dumb little game. We're playing. Boiling waxer hot,

1318
01:18:20.960 --> 01:18:21.439
go for it.

1319
01:18:23.760 --> 01:18:26.239
But you know that it gets lonely on the front line. Yep.

1320
01:18:26.760 --> 01:18:33.039
And Boyle is definitely a racist, yep. For sure. He's

1321
01:18:33.119 --> 01:18:36.720
definitely being coded as a dude that joined the military

1322
01:18:36.760 --> 01:18:40.520
because he's excited to fight yep. But he hates everything,

1323
01:18:41.359 --> 01:18:43.079
but he was ready to show power.

1324
01:18:43.319 --> 01:18:43.439
Yea.

1325
01:18:43.880 --> 01:18:46.359
I just want to get in there shoot up some shit.

1326
01:18:46.520 --> 01:18:52.000
Even though he seems pretty disillusioned by every whatever. Because

1327
01:18:52.039 --> 01:18:57.359
the mustache, he's coded as a right wing twerp. So

1328
01:18:57.560 --> 01:19:01.479
you know that when he needs a lease, it is

1329
01:19:04.000 --> 01:19:08.600
it's a lot, you know with this dick again, ask

1330
01:19:08.640 --> 01:19:09.960
you if you don't have to, you don't have to

1331
01:19:10.039 --> 01:19:17.600
finish the double on camera. So you know that whenever

1332
01:19:17.640 --> 01:19:20.119
they're having relations out on the field, it is rough.

1333
01:19:21.720 --> 01:19:24.079
Stop going into such a detail with things.

1334
01:19:24.479 --> 01:19:34.119
Waxer is very tender. You gotta stop. I think that

1335
01:19:34.199 --> 01:19:35.239
they just have an agreement.

1336
01:19:36.560 --> 01:19:40.399
Yeah, I think they do. I think you're right, and

1337
01:19:40.520 --> 01:19:41.039
so too, do.

1338
01:19:41.159 --> 01:19:44.880
We have an agreement about the about the concept of

1339
01:19:44.960 --> 01:19:48.680
this episode and about the concept of this podcast. In general,

1340
01:19:49.840 --> 01:19:52.960
art exists in a binary. It is either good or bad,

1341
01:19:53.199 --> 01:19:55.279
and so too. Are we going to answer this question

1342
01:19:55.560 --> 01:19:57.840
of which is good and which is bad? Star Trek

1343
01:19:58.000 --> 01:20:00.760
or Star Wars by going through of these episodes and

1344
01:20:00.800 --> 01:20:04.239
ranking them on a scale of zero to ten. Of course,

1345
01:20:04.279 --> 01:20:06.279
the episodes that we're talking about are The Way to

1346
01:20:06.359 --> 01:20:11.760
Eaten and Innocence of ryloth Uh asked, Uh, you go

1347
01:20:11.880 --> 01:20:14.479
ahead and go first with the Way to Eaten.

1348
01:20:17.000 --> 01:20:20.119
So I did like this episode. I thought it was

1349
01:20:20.640 --> 01:20:24.000
it was good. I like, you know what at this

1350
01:20:24.119 --> 01:20:28.279
point too, any type of episode that makes me I

1351
01:20:28.600 --> 01:20:31.760
want to talk about it a lot. I feel like merits,

1352
01:20:32.399 --> 01:20:35.960
uh you know, merits like thoughtfulness when it comes to scoring.

1353
01:20:36.800 --> 01:20:40.079
So I'm going to give it just a solid old seven.

1354
01:20:41.920 --> 01:20:45.840
Seven. Fascinating. Yeah, Uh, I am going to give this

1355
01:20:45.960 --> 01:20:47.840
one a seven point five.

1356
01:20:48.520 --> 01:20:48.880
Okay.

1357
01:20:49.319 --> 01:20:52.079
I really gied with this episode. I really enjoyed it.

1358
01:20:52.199 --> 01:20:55.720
Last week gave Recoon from Ethus seven, and I thought

1359
01:20:55.720 --> 01:20:58.840
that this episode was sincerely good. I thought it had

1360
01:20:58.880 --> 01:21:03.079
a lot to say, even if it was kind of dopey,

1361
01:21:03.960 --> 01:21:05.239
but it still had a point of view that I

1362
01:21:05.319 --> 01:21:12.119
was interested interrogating, and again it interrogated itself. Yeah. I

1363
01:21:12.199 --> 01:21:15.079
think it's a smart episode. I think it's insightful. I

1364
01:21:15.159 --> 01:21:20.600
think it's interesting at worst, it's very interesting. Uh yeah,

1365
01:21:20.800 --> 01:21:23.520
that brings it to a collective total to seven point

1366
01:21:23.560 --> 01:21:25.800
two five. But it's still anyone's game. As we go

1367
01:21:25.920 --> 01:21:30.479
over to Innocence of Ryla Aspen, what's your rank this one?

1368
01:21:30.640 --> 01:21:31.239
What did I give?

1369
01:21:32.000 --> 01:21:32.560
What did I give?

1370
01:21:33.439 --> 01:21:35.840
Storm Over Ryls, you gave it an eight point three.

1371
01:21:36.239 --> 01:21:41.800
Wow, goodness gracious, I'm gonna give this one an eight

1372
01:21:41.960 --> 01:21:42.760
point one.

1373
01:21:44.079 --> 01:21:46.560
Eight point one why and eight point one?

1374
01:21:47.960 --> 01:21:54.680
I don't despite all the thematic stuff that we brought up,

1375
01:21:54.960 --> 01:21:58.359
I think that this is and the faults inherent in

1376
01:21:58.479 --> 01:22:02.600
it about like certain and like what they might say,

1377
01:22:03.000 --> 01:22:07.239
and our current setting, the setting of two thousand and nine,

1378
01:22:07.279 --> 01:22:10.960
despite those things, I think as an episode, we're like

1379
01:22:11.079 --> 01:22:15.359
in one of the coolest, most fascinating arcs. I think

1380
01:22:15.600 --> 01:22:18.720
visually that we're just like it is like hitting a

1381
01:22:18.800 --> 01:22:22.079
stride that is extraordinary. I think it's got a balance.

1382
01:22:22.319 --> 01:22:26.800
This episode is a beautiful balance of these like quiet moments,

1383
01:22:27.079 --> 01:22:32.600
these characterization moments, fabulous action and planning like the kind

1384
01:22:32.640 --> 01:22:38.520
of we didn't even get into, like the Droid commander

1385
01:22:39.119 --> 01:22:45.640
with the ha ha, and just these different like they're

1386
01:22:45.680 --> 01:22:51.239
starting to build in these new different big bi like

1387
01:22:51.359 --> 01:22:54.000
kind of like not final bosses, they're like these bosses

1388
01:22:54.039 --> 01:22:58.119
along the way that are their own characters, have their

1389
01:22:58.199 --> 01:23:01.199
own strategies. I think they're very compelling and interesting. I

1390
01:23:01.239 --> 01:23:07.760
think he's very interesting. Yeah, I think the color scheme

1391
01:23:07.800 --> 01:23:09.359
of it they talk about and we're kind of behind

1392
01:23:09.359 --> 01:23:13.039
the scenes a bit about how they've desaturated the background.

1393
01:23:13.439 --> 01:23:20.079
So that shot of the cruisers coming down coming was

1394
01:23:20.439 --> 01:23:21.319
so incredible.

1395
01:23:21.439 --> 01:23:24.800
It was so beautiful, Like it was genuinely so beautiful.

1396
01:23:25.159 --> 01:23:28.239
And then I just think it's really good storytelling. I

1397
01:23:28.359 --> 01:23:30.439
just think it's a beautiful episode. I think I felt

1398
01:23:30.520 --> 01:23:32.600
fel that. Of course, the Asoka story to me is

1399
01:23:32.680 --> 01:23:35.760
like extremely important, kind of a little bit more compelling

1400
01:23:35.880 --> 01:23:38.920
to me. But I still love this episode, so hence

1401
01:23:38.960 --> 01:23:40.319
the eight point one excellent.

1402
01:23:40.760 --> 01:23:44.800
I'm going to give this episode of five sure for

1403
01:23:45.439 --> 01:23:50.520
two reasons. One, Ultimately, I found the episode pretty sleepy. Okay,

1404
01:23:50.840 --> 01:23:54.920
I can't even though we had an excellent conversation about it,

1405
01:23:56.439 --> 01:23:58.159
I just found the execution of the episode just a

1406
01:23:58.199 --> 01:24:02.880
little bit sleepy. Uh. And then I was listening to

1407
01:24:02.960 --> 01:24:07.600
the More Civilized Age podcast about it, and really they

1408
01:24:07.640 --> 01:24:09.319
were the ones who grabbed my shoulders and were like,

1409
01:24:09.359 --> 01:24:11.960
there's some problematic racial stuff that's going on, which I'm

1410
01:24:12.079 --> 01:24:15.680
mad at myself for that completely going over my head. Uh,

1411
01:24:16.159 --> 01:24:21.439
and for that being pointed out to me. I'm I'm

1412
01:24:21.479 --> 01:24:25.159
going to dock it. Uh, I'm going to dock it

1413
01:24:25.600 --> 01:24:31.359
a point or two a little bit. Yeah, yeah, Yeah,

1414
01:24:31.640 --> 01:24:32.039
for sure.

1415
01:24:32.520 --> 01:24:41.640
Yeah, Yeah, that's that's totally Yeah, that makes not a severe.

1416
01:24:41.399 --> 01:24:47.319
Spite ranking right but still but still because no black

1417
01:24:47.359 --> 01:24:55.359
face truly because it's it's it's boneheaded about his execution.

1418
01:24:57.680 --> 01:25:02.479
Yeah, which with that it is very interesting. I'll just

1419
01:25:02.760 --> 01:25:07.439
always say I am surprised because like when Filonia was

1420
01:25:07.479 --> 01:25:09.279
talking about it, he was saying that he always wanted

1421
01:25:09.279 --> 01:25:11.000
to have a story that would be like this with

1422
01:25:11.119 --> 01:25:14.520
a young child. And I don't know if maybe the

1423
01:25:14.640 --> 01:25:18.039
writers or he is kind of supervising director quite realized

1424
01:25:19.199 --> 01:25:21.159
maybe the perception of the thing. And I think it

1425
01:25:21.279 --> 01:25:24.399
has to do probably more probably just more witches being

1426
01:25:24.439 --> 01:25:27.760
a bunch of white guys who are going more for

1427
01:25:27.920 --> 01:25:30.000
what we've talked about, like aesthetics, Like they were very

1428
01:25:30.119 --> 01:25:33.319
interested in the idea of the visual of this little

1429
01:25:33.359 --> 01:25:35.600
girl who is she is green, She's a bright color

1430
01:25:35.640 --> 01:25:40.239
against desaturated background, almost like the girl in the red

1431
01:25:40.319 --> 01:25:44.239
coat in Schindler's List, this like shock of red kind

1432
01:25:44.319 --> 01:25:48.119
of concept of innocence. Yeah, but like but they've sort

1433
01:25:48.119 --> 01:25:51.239
of dissociated it from like the the re sort of

1434
01:25:51.399 --> 01:25:54.840
like the like the true meaning of the thing.

1435
01:25:55.239 --> 01:26:00.159
I guarantee you that Felony was seeing the forest and

1436
01:26:00.279 --> 01:26:05.039
not necessarily the individual trees, because we know that it's

1437
01:26:05.039 --> 01:26:07.960
a huge Star Wars fan. Yeah, and he's talking with

1438
01:26:08.159 --> 01:26:12.159
George and they're talking about the Twilight Race already, and

1439
01:26:12.319 --> 01:26:16.039
so they already have this huge swath to draw from,

1440
01:26:16.600 --> 01:26:20.319
and so they're probably making this episode and they're in

1441
01:26:20.920 --> 01:26:24.399
they're paying attention to the aesthetics of the darn thing,

1442
01:26:25.000 --> 01:26:29.720
Like this is a good, clean story about innocence lost, right,

1443
01:26:31.640 --> 01:26:35.359
literally in terms of the innocence lost as well as

1444
01:26:35.399 --> 01:26:40.239
the loss of innocence. Meanwhile, this is our introduction to

1445
01:26:40.319 --> 01:26:43.880
the personification of a twilec that in a speaking role. Yeah,

1446
01:26:45.520 --> 01:26:46.720
twiles and speaking roles.

1447
01:26:47.159 --> 01:26:54.479
No, No, the uh, the Jedi, the Jedi. What's her name?

1448
01:26:54.720 --> 01:26:59.039
The beloved, the one everybody adoors? Gosh, why can't I

1449
01:26:59.079 --> 01:26:59.640
remember her name?

1450
01:27:00.039 --> 01:27:03.399
Alsa Kuro? Yes, she never has she never has a

1451
01:27:03.479 --> 01:27:05.199
line in any of this. Wait.

1452
01:27:05.600 --> 01:27:07.960
No, oh, yeah, yeah, we've had an episode. We have

1453
01:27:08.119 --> 01:27:11.119
episodes with her, right, yeah, we've covered those.

1454
01:27:12.199 --> 01:27:12.319
Right.

1455
01:27:12.399 --> 01:27:14.600
I'm like, that's not just something I've watched separately.

1456
01:27:14.319 --> 01:27:17.000
Right yeah. And then maybe that is a deliberate misreading

1457
01:27:17.039 --> 01:27:19.800
of this episode, considering that we have had other depictions

1458
01:27:19.800 --> 01:27:27.439
of twilex hmm. Huh, I'm going to good faith intention it.

1459
01:27:29.279 --> 01:27:30.520
I'm going to upgrade it to a six.

1460
01:27:30.960 --> 01:27:34.840
Okay, got that? Oh my god? It's like at what

1461
01:27:34.960 --> 01:27:36.840
I just did with the power of my words.

1462
01:27:38.520 --> 01:27:45.399
Discussion is fun, especially whenever we are uh depicting the

1463
01:27:45.520 --> 01:27:48.039
values that are put forth in both of these episodes,

1464
01:27:48.279 --> 01:27:51.079
the big commonality and the challenges within the Star Trek

1465
01:27:51.119 --> 01:27:54.960
episode and the gifts within the Star Wars episode. Empathy, yeah,

1466
01:27:55.600 --> 01:27:58.840
for sure, for sure, but unfortunately the cold, hard fist

1467
01:27:58.920 --> 01:28:02.760
of facts rained supreme on this podcast. All right, and

1468
01:28:03.079 --> 01:28:07.079
even with my more charitable ranking of six. Uh that

1469
01:28:07.279 --> 01:28:09.640
brings Innocence of Rye Loath to a seven point oh

1470
01:28:09.800 --> 01:28:15.239
five versus the Way to Eden's robust seven point twenty five,

1471
01:28:15.279 --> 01:28:18.880
which means Wild Aspen. I would like for you to

1472
01:28:18.960 --> 01:28:21.840
hand the trophy over for this week because Star Trek.

1473
01:28:22.520 --> 01:28:23.239
When's the Wii?

1474
01:28:24.359 --> 01:28:25.880
Did you just do that for Shape as show?

1475
01:28:26.840 --> 01:28:26.880
No.

1476
01:28:27.279 --> 01:28:29.119
I feel like Star Wars can't keep winning.

1477
01:28:29.840 --> 01:28:34.159
Oh it can. I'll keep up for Star Wars, although

1478
01:28:34.199 --> 01:28:37.520
I couldn't help but think about Shape A show six

1479
01:28:37.840 --> 01:28:40.560
six is my honest ranking, boy boy. This is the

1480
01:28:40.600 --> 01:28:42.800
first time that Star Trek has won the trophy in

1481
01:28:42.800 --> 01:28:45.359
a whole while sure feels like it.

1482
01:28:46.000 --> 01:28:49.640
Yeah, it's true, that's okay. I will, I will give

1483
01:28:49.720 --> 01:28:52.279
it to you. But you have to thank God.

1484
01:28:53.720 --> 01:28:53.960
I do.

1485
01:28:54.159 --> 01:28:59.840
I thank God You've been wisdom. Uh. And I also

1486
01:29:00.079 --> 01:29:04.520
think our patrons at patreon dot com slash trek Wars pod,

1487
01:29:04.560 --> 01:29:06.720
where for five dollars a month you can sign up

1488
01:29:06.760 --> 01:29:09.920
for early versions of these episodes and extended versions of

1489
01:29:10.000 --> 01:29:14.000
these episodes, and for one measly dollar a month, we

1490
01:29:14.399 --> 01:29:17.920
will just read your name on airs. There a better

1491
01:29:18.039 --> 01:29:21.880
deal in the Patreon world, I bet not.

1492
01:29:22.239 --> 01:29:24.239
I's gonna say maybe in like the world world, Like

1493
01:29:24.319 --> 01:29:26.960
a McDonald's dollar menu would be really nice.

1494
01:29:27.920 --> 01:29:31.960
But the dollar menu is temporary. Oh this is dollar Patreon.

1495
01:29:33.000 --> 01:29:35.159
Your your name's gonna be out there as long as

1496
01:29:35.199 --> 01:29:38.479
this podcast stays a lot a dollar hamburger. It's a

1497
01:29:38.560 --> 01:29:40.159
five minute experience at the most.

1498
01:29:40.479 --> 01:29:43.000
At the most, you're probably just stopping the thing down.

1499
01:29:43.159 --> 01:29:45.840
And speaking of things with the most. Our patrons have

1500
01:29:46.079 --> 01:29:48.800
the most, and you could too, could join the fine

1501
01:29:48.800 --> 01:29:52.920
hospices of fine folks such as Tempo de Sosa, Heidi Rogers,

1502
01:29:53.239 --> 01:29:57.600
Kevin Miller, Arizona, Mark Austin, Aaron Boo Bab Cactus and

1503
01:29:57.640 --> 01:30:01.439
our newest patron. And lastly, but certain not leastly Jolty partner,

1504
01:30:01.600 --> 01:30:04.239
who composed our I starship at theme song. Our main

1505
01:30:04.399 --> 01:30:07.479
and ending theme song was composed by this chosen Aufesso.

1506
01:30:07.560 --> 01:30:11.199
Please visit the show notes for more of his musical handiwork.

1507
01:30:12.079 --> 01:30:14.279
If you want to get in touch with us, please

1508
01:30:14.359 --> 01:30:17.880
visit our socials on Instagram or blue Sky just search

1509
01:30:17.960 --> 01:30:19.840
at track wars Pod. And if you don't want to

1510
01:30:19.880 --> 01:30:22.600
do social please send us an email track wars Pod

1511
01:30:22.760 --> 01:30:26.319
at gmail dot com. And uh finally, if you haven't

1512
01:30:26.359 --> 01:30:28.399
done so, please leave us a review. We survive on

1513
01:30:28.520 --> 01:30:32.319
word of mouth along with money, so please spread the word,

1514
01:30:32.439 --> 01:30:35.800
share this podcast, and you know, just have a good day.

1515
01:30:35.840 --> 01:30:39.159
You know what I mean, like along with money, Like

1516
01:30:39.279 --> 01:30:40.119
money's pretty cool.

1517
01:30:40.560 --> 01:30:42.199
Money is pretty good, and it helps us keep the

1518
01:30:42.239 --> 01:30:44.000
lights on by keep you the lines on, I mean,

1519
01:30:44.079 --> 01:30:46.840
pays for the basic infrastructure. So me and Aspen and

1520
01:30:46.960 --> 01:30:48.520
get to do one of our favorite things. We just

1521
01:30:48.560 --> 01:30:55.039
gap it with each other for two plus hours. Yay, Aspen,

1522
01:30:55.319 --> 01:30:56.119
I love you dearly.

1523
01:30:56.479 --> 01:30:56.920
I love you.

1524
01:30:59.079 --> 01:31:01.279
Yeah, this that's nice. Sorry, thank you.

1525
01:31:04.680 --> 01:31:05.199
Listeners.

1526
01:31:05.239 --> 01:31:05.680
We love you.

1527
01:31:05.920 --> 01:31:08.479
Live long and prosper and may the force be with you,