Turnabout Intruder vs. Cargo of Doom

0:26 Welcome to the Track Wars Podcast, the one podcast that dares to answer the ultimate question and fandom, which is better Star Wars are Star Trek by going through both franchises in chronological release order. I am Kenny Madison, the Star Trek contingent with me as per always as the co host with the mo host. It's me asking Webster, I cover the I got Star Wars. I cover the Star Wars Beat. I'm here every every day, baby, taking the info. Taking the info, making making those little tick boxes right on the side of your wall, and aspen, if you could just check the tick boxes over there, if you could see how many what what tick box?

1:08 Oh you know what, Kenny, I've been taking those while covering this New York Star Wars Beat has been such a time for me. Looks like we are at one hundred. I am not, actually, I mean like Beat reporters, one hundred episodes of the Trek Wars podcast, and boy, oh boy, I am absolutely thrilled that I've had at least one hundred opportunities to talk with one of my best friends in the whole wide world. As been about my favorite things of the world, Some of my favorite things of the world, not like Puppies, Star Trek, Star Wars freaking lovees so much as been have you? How do you feel? How do you feel?

1:56 How do you feel? One hundred episodes our track in Star Wars? How do I feel? I feel. All right? Well, for one, we talked about this on our Patreon, and I feel like I need to talk about this on the main feed real quick. Does people know because there's two ways I feel right now? No, No, this is more important than literally, let's talk about one hundred episodes of Star Trek and Star Wars. Literally, whatever else you have to say, I'm going to feel so anti climactic. Okay, one hundred episodes, Yeah, yeah, yeah. There is nothing, no background that you could add, nothing that could be nearly as important as celebrating one one hundred episodes content.

2:40 You're fucking right, man, you just me. I'm back, I'm to New York reported. There's nothing better than one hundred episodes. It is actually really cool, it's very impressive. Look at us. We know this for so long and it is really nice and it's really Actually my first feeling was I was just like, gosh, and we only know I just finished turns. That's actually my first. Thought, that's like, holy shit. But I mean we did a lot of other little stuff and we had to get through the movies and you know you so the other thing. Just so people know, I am a little low energy, And it's not because I don't love Kenny with my whole chest and because I not because I don't love Star Wars and Star Trek. It's just because they just got back from evacuating the Los Angeles fires yesterday.

3:28 So I'm just like a little tired. And now that you say that, all that pre amble sounds really presumptuous on my. Oh, you know what, You're fine, You're fine kidding. We were as like poetry, so if they rhy, we were up. We're upsete. Yeah. Yeah, so we apologize for our absence, uh for holidays and Kenny moving into a new house and then me having to leave the state of a state. Now I didn't leave the state. I left the city of Los Angele. Yes, you're you're planted. Yeah, this that I'm in a Los Angeles state of mind always, even if I'm not in the city. One of my favorite billy classic class did you see that there's like someone I don't know if they tweeted it or something, so I was like, oh, I got into the back of the an uber and there was this music that they were playing and it sounded kind of like old and it sounded so like intimidating or something like anxiety provoking. And they're like, I just did not feel safe and that uber and it turned out the song was Uptown Girl. Everyone. I was just like, are you are the youths? Okay? No, I'm like, I don't think Billy Joel is by any means intimidating.

4:46 They are not. We have handed them a world on fire. That's true. Okay. They want to be anxious about Billy Joel. Okay, I'm I'm also anxious about the world, but I'm not anxious about Billy Joel. All of it for me to not be. Anxious, which is more more anxiety inducing for you, the world or the circumstances that you are just now finding a sense of normalcy, and. I think they're connected. Yeah, you're right. Sorry, I'm such a dunce. I'm safe, We're okay. Everything's what it's gonna be. Not to be that guy, but yay firefighters, not to be that guy. But thank you for saving my life.

5:32 Firefighters, I will say, look, the American flag is a weird symbol of hate at this moment in time. Uh. And there are the American flags that are black and white except for a blue stride that lets me know that I should steer away from those people in traffic. Then there are the black and white flags that have a rest for firefighters. And I'm like, yeah, that's fine. Yeah, there's just a blanket service that everyone could be supportive of. It's that one, and it's that one. Am, yes, and ems as well? Do they have a stripe? We're getting to the type of stry. But you're absolutely right, I see dam Like, thank you, great.

6:14 Job, I think you. Oh God, except for I guess the California legislature which was putting more funding to comps and it did it less funny to firefighters. It's not true. They didn't. They didn't cut the funding for firefighters. Excellent. I fallen for headlines. I know. I'm so sorry. No, it's okay. Actually I did too. And then I there was like it was like, there's actually a whole if you want to look it up, there's a whole website on all the misinformation about it. Because people love, people love to like spread stuff, and what I just want to make sure we're not doing is becoming the Fox News of like. You know, yeah, I'll probably cut that out of the main feed episode.

6:57 No, I think it's important, like actually. The main episode because why even well, because we. Get pain Yeah whatever, that's fine, that's fine. So I just want to just give that as a sort of like a like a background. If I am at all sleepy sounding, I am deeply excited for this, and I thank you for your patients for this moment. Speaking of deeply excited, and not only are we celebrating an important milestone in the development of a podcast, where I guess most podcasts go to three episodes, we have gone to one hundred. Not only that, but we are coming to an end of another piece. That's right. We are finishing Star Trek the original series, episode seventy nine, final episode of season three, turnabout Intruder Versus Star Wars of the con Wars season two episode two, Cargo of Doom, and I, for one, I won't speak for my co host, buy am excited.

7:54 To be done with the original series. That too, but also just to do another episode of Track Wars. Oh, that's really nice. By the way, I'm not like hating on TOS. I think there is a touch of being like. Sounds like they're hating on TOS. So I was like, I'm a hyder. I mean, you know, every time we finished something, like you know, whether it was like ewoks or droids or something, there's like a feeling of ooh, onto the next stage of the thing. So it is very cool to feel like we've hit that. Well. Speaking of being onto the next stage, so too, are we on to the next stage of our episode, which is correspondence. We have some pieces of correspondence from patrons and listeners alike. Cute, very cute from patron Baban Cactus on our all Our Yesterdays versus holocron Heist Patreon episode from balbab Cactus shout out to the look of delight and wonder on Kirk's face as he looks at the old timy people on the disc. It was so cute.

8:55 For that comment, I gave a heart and that hard is from us while we're recording this. It's very sweet. Uh any comments as uh No, I love that. I am always into facial expressions. Why is that my heart working? I don't. I mean a larger question. Is that just Patreon related? No, I made it happen on the screen. I made the hearts happen. Sorry, I was looking at the next piece of correspondence. Oh oh, only people watching me will have seen my hearts. Certainly, uh, which you can find at YouTube dot com slash at trek Wars pod. Our next piece of correspondence goes to the trek Wars pod at gmail dot com email account, and the subject line is all our Yesterday slash holocron Heist from Uh Nick you ROUTI interesting? Do you know who that is?

9:48 No? Nick? Uti? Hi Kenny and asmen bow bab Cactus here Nick. Hello, Nick, it's wonderful to new. Ear give me any giving them away? Great. In your episode on all Our Yesterday's in Holocron Heist, you briefly pondered whether joecast Knew or mister Atos was the better library. I think we both landed on Jocastau. I'm currently working on a Master of Librarian Information Science degree and I wanted to weigh in on this based on her scene in Attack of the Clones, which Nick quite rightly abbreviated into AotC.

10:30 Should you tell you something. I'm so sorry to interrupt this. Every time I see AotC, I think AOC and I just think of yep. Anyway, go on, please please start again. Based on her scene in AotC, Joe casta new is an awful librarian. I mean it's true. Telling me a library user that the information there after doesn't exist after their first search was unsuccessful parenthetical not to mention, then turning and leaving without a word, and theathetical It's disgraceful behavior for an information professional. For all she knew, Camino might have been in a different location or listed in the archives under a different name, or might have been indirectly referenced in materials on cloning users of saber darts, et cetera, and any competent librarian would have prompted Obi Wan to share that information and then helped him search. We don't see her doing any actual librarian work in this Clone Wars episode, but I think mister Ataz when's hands down, thanks for the work you do making this podcast happen. I started rewatching Clone Wars to follow along with this show, and the first season was so much more thoughtful and well done than I remember it being Thanks for inspiring me to give those episodes another shot.

11:47 That's so nice. That's so nice, and now I believe both myself and asked, but definitely agree with you, mister Ataz. When's handily, isn't that right? Asmen? No from shaking your head VML for people that are only listening. If you're watching, you can definitely also see that aspens shaking their head v no. You know what I am doing. I like, I think it's just like a side of my state of mind, but I like, I was like, am I crying? I love librarians. Thank you so much. It was so nice. It's so nice that you're gonna be a good library. It'd be so much better library than both of them.

12:29 You should be the better by librarian name. That's true. And please correct us on the pronunciation of your last name. We welcome all corrections from anyone. Well for now, uh okay that territory later on? Fine. Nice. Thank you for those pieces of correspondence, and again we found those at patreon dot com slash track Wars pod, where for five dollars a month you could join our patreon get access to you early and extended versions of these episodes. Or hop over to our one dollar month here we'll say your name on the air, or just send us an email Trek Worse Pod at gmail dot com.

13:09 We love talking with you, and we love each and every one of our listeners except for one of you. You know who you are. Yeah, yeah, sorry, I'm okay. Now, I'm okay. Oh dang it, I forgot Aspen. I wanted to do a bit for the beginning in the show, okay, because it would have been really funny because this is a body swap episode or episode the star Trek tos and so you should have opened up the episode instead. Oops, Welcome to the Trek Worse. You've said it a hundred times and I'm still like, what do you say?

13:53 I don't know if we had actually, if we had done it, I would have been like, oh no, I have to like, can you read it to me? Let me write it down so I can read it. Yeah, which is wild because I just always do it off of the dome. I know, off the dome. I believe. The next segment of our show is catching people up in case they haven't watched the episodes along with us, by giving them a brief synopsis and again the episodes are Turnabout Intruder versus Cargo of Doom, and I will start with my synopsis for the week. Turnabout Intruder first aired June third, nineteen sixty nine, one month before the Moon Landing when director I was gonna wait for the song. In nineteen sixty nine, nineteen seventy but one You're.

14:37 Soon director Herb Wallenstein and writer Teleplay by Arthur H. Singer story Bye, Gene Roddenberry, I know right, Oh, you can tell yeah? From an NBC press release issued this campy Right February twenty sixth, nineteen sixty nine. What well into it? A scorned woman reads a strange vengeance on Captain Kirk when she manages an exchange of bodies with him and takes command of the enterprise and turn About Intruder on NBCT Television Networks Star Trek color cast of Friday, March twenty eighth, original scheduled air date. Doctor Janis Lester easily convinces the crew and officers that Captain Kirk and the guys of Old Woman is insane. Doctor Lester resents the apparent dominant positions males occupy in the world of the future as Captain Kirk, she attempts to murder the captain's life entity she now controls. I guess.

15:39 Thin, Yes, we'll get into it. It was funny. I actually had to because I watched these a while ago thinking that we were going to do them, and then brings burst into flint, so I had to, like sort of but I watched them and I wrote notes, and so then earlier today he was like, I'm going to kind of put them on the background just to make sure that it like I'm thinking about them, and write down any notes maybe I missed, and I wrote down the exact same note I had written during my like first viewing without realizing it, which was is she hysterical because she's literally insane or she hysterical because she's a woman?

16:22 Would Gene Rottenberry could be both? Probably is both? Actually yeah, oh my god, hated it just as much the second time. You do love to hear it? Do you hear you love to hear it? My hand, I love to hear it. I don't have a lot of I can't tell if I have like you, I can't tell what my like level of I don't know, like holding back will be in my weird little state of things. It's a hundred episode. You've survived a national catastrophe. I've got an ear infection. That truly uh for people that are only listening Aspen is currently rocking one.

17:04 Ear, I've lost a whole ass ear. Sorry, I'm in that'son. You're rocking one your phone. It started to get warm and at hurt. Sure it's a little baby, just a little baby. It's like my over ear ones too, So I was like, I don't want to point her anything in my ears at care. So thank you. I think I look pretty cool? You do think. Cargo of Doom start was going with Cargo of Doom Really stalked over second two thousand and nine, tbeg Let's see It was directed by Rob Coleman and written specifically by George Christick. I'm just a cool named te christs Okay, written by the tv R hell just on IMDb. Baane commanding a separatist fleet has captured Rudy and Jedi Master Bola Ropaul, keeper of the Kiber Crystal. The crystal holds the names of every known for sensitive child in the galaxy.

18:12 Oh that's the Kiber crystal. That's like Kyber crystals are what you use to create a lightsaber. But in this case, the crystal has this information. Interesting, this is the first canonical instance of Kiber crystal holding information. Well, it's just seeing a Kyber crystal, period, except we have seen a Kiber crystal in the two D Clone Wars, but now it's not canonical. It's really funny reading this. I'm like, that was that the case? I guess. I guess so, But also I didn't. I didn't recall them saying Kiro within the dialog. Yeah right, It's just I would have written it down and circled it.

18:52 Yeah, I am now like, because obviously this is like to unlock this information, Baine needs a Jedi to combine the crystal with a holocron. Of course, is the whull ground that he just stole and only Jedi can open it. So yeah, there is a crystal though, Yeah, I don't know if it specifies as Kyri crystal. We should clarify that. Sound like that's the only type of crystal that exists. It is, that's an entire galaxy one type build long crystal. It would be very Jedi of them to use it for that purpose. That like our special crystals. When Anakin and Ahsoka arrived to intercept him. The crafty bounty hunter plants to manipulate one of them into doing just that.

19:34 He does spoilers it does. He totally totally manipulates Anakin. Yeah, and you know what, that's fine. I have a fascinating piece of trivia from IMDb. Yes, wow, this is interesting. Oh yes, ses yeah, nine people found this piece of trivia helpful. Anakin yells it's a trap when a soca runs after pain, clearly referring to the famous called by Admiral Akpar. God damn it, Oh my god, there's like so many of them listen here at all looking at the trivia, Ahsca calls Cadbane a sliam oh, which is hot to use for slime ball.

20:19 Yeah that that Yeah, sure, that's pretty cool. But the next one is one of the Clone Troopers banks his head against a pipe in homage the Stormtrooper in Star Wars episode four, a new hope who banged his head against his tour against idea. This guy happened until, like someone else pointed it out to me. That's how far that trouper happens in the background. So ridiculous. This is the first time in the show where I was seen without her usual outfit, and this outfit is so cool. He described the outfit for people that are playing the home edition of this game. She's wearing like a full like leotard esque suit, but it's like long sleeved and long long pants as well.

21:03 And I'm not quite sure what the texture is supposed to be, but the weight is animated makes it look like it is red velvet. It looks so good. And it's also not a toooptop, which she seems to love her tooped up and that is okay. But I'm like, man, this ship is good. All this it. Was very cool. Good episode, good app good app real good app A horrifying app actually speaking of terrifying, like like torture to the point of death. Sometimes you're like, wow, it's a good show. They literally tortured this guy and he died. He literally died, and then when they find him later, he's just on the floor with this little tongue out. I'm like, that's that's horrifying.

21:48 You're talking about Jedi Bolo repol. Why would you do that? Anyway, it's a it's good app. I guess we should do our initial impressions instead of just me being like that's good. At good, I mean that is an initial impression good. I guess I could formally introduce the segment by saying, here's the part of the show where we start our first impressions, as what's your first impression of Cargo Doom? Is that what you're gonna do? Are you gonna are you gonna do that? You're gonna officially do it? Yeah, let me officially do it. This is the part of the show whenever we do our first impressions aspen, what are your first impressions about Cargo of Doom? Get up excellent. I also thought that it's a good episode as well.

22:29 Uh, I mean it's like legitimately like as I was rewatching as I was rewatching the Star Trek app you know, sometimes we're get we have like thematically interesting stuff that we know we're gonna hit, you know, we're like, well, we're really gonna have a conversation about this, And sometimes Clone Wars does tend toward this is. Very action heavy. Are there like real themes you want to get into? And I was like, I think there's mostly a lot of there's a lot of mostly like this really cool action episode, but I think it's also just a wonderfully beautifully crafted episode. There are there is an amazing set piece we were just talking and the Patreon episode about Alien Romulus, which I watched.

23:19 I watched it. I have not asked you about it so many times. All Right, it's just good to keep tabs on what you've luxuriated and watching over the past chill four weeks for you. I watched that, I watched that movie. I watched that movie, and then I watched this episode and I was like, wait a second, because they both have zero gravity fight scenes. Zero gravity fight scene and this one is in Clone Wars is so cool, Like it's just so fun, Like I love it. There's so much. At one point there's just it's just like droids but just like have been blown in half and like the top half of them is just like slowly interesting. It's for a lot of fun stuff. So it's a very interesting episode. There's some good character pieces too. I think it's always helpful and interesting to see, like when is Anakin gonna make the choice for someone he loves versus maybe what's the greater good choice?

24:17 Oh my gosh. The ending of this episode is dynamite and what a wonderful character motivated reasoning that truly does depend on what you know about the characters so far, and is connecting with the movies, connecting with the rest of the show in a way because the episodes have been I mean, there's specific arcs, notwithstanding pretty darn isolated within themselves. And now I feel like we're starting to see some payoff in some longer term characterization. And I. With Anakin going I can't let you die Ahsoka yep, and the African campaign gets away with the holocron of the crystal.

25:02 He's straight up plays them like a fiddle. Yeah, and he's right, like he's super right. Like what's so interesting about this episode is that actually starts with some very Anakin esque uh like strategy, which is basically, do the thing no one would have expected, which is very cool and fascinating. Like, yes, they bored the frigate, which is like, they're not prepped for that type of action. Well, not only do they board the frigate, they bored the frigate in the coolest way they possible. And I believe it's a reference. I believe Folonia talked about wanting to do a set piece like this earlier in season one, but they just couldn't afford it because they're literally building all these assets in scratch. But now because it's season two, we can afford to build some attes or as they're called in Cannon eight eighties.

25:59 Yes, yes they have some atats, the smaller guys that are not meant for this, and they how do they I literally just watch this again, but like they are able to use them to get onto the frigate, onto the separatist frigate where cad Bane is what is it? Through magnetization? How do they do it? They do? But yeah, yeah, they're meant for like they're meant for terrain, they're not meant for space, and they literally use them to board this ship. Yeah, and it's it's. Pretty fantastic because it actually is from a character perspective, you have you know, Anakin, Anakin Skywalker. What a guy?

26:47 What a guy? Am I? Right? Like? What? In the same way that they have they've done a lot of other very clever, clever moves, like this is a truly clever move. It's completely unexpected and it so kind of starts with the idea in this concept and it kind of just keeps it going from there, which is like, really, it's really I think it makes for I think, you know, set piece said in a good way, not just for the aesthetics of the thing, but for like genuine enjoyment from these spaces of like learning more about them and also understanding them as people. I remember because I was watching this episode with Heidi, my partner just cute and the Clones were doing their clony stuff, and at one point Heidi went, oh, I get being invested in this show wild way. It's a wild way that she said it now that I'm saying it out loud, but was able to be like, uh, just had a moment of being like, I see what aspen seeds in this for a flash and that was really great.

27:52 That makes me feel really seen. It makes me I'm gonna cry again. Good to cry about librarians, to cry about being seen. It's been a long week. What about puppies where like their heads just a little bit too big, and so they're there, but they're really excited to be alive, so they're flopping around and their heads just a little bit too bad. Stop oh stop, And they got those big paws that their body has grown into yet Oh. I love that. I was not crying. You're just enjoying that thought. I was just thinking about Sorry, I'm well, yeah, it's just left over tears from from the from the sweetest of the sweetest thing anyone could ever say. I can see how Aspen, Why Aspen would love Star Wars the clone Wars?

28:48 Wait? Why did she say that? Tell me more? Like, what was it about it? It was something I don't recall the specific instance because I didn't write it down on my notes. Ah, I just recall it being specifically regarding clones. It was just something about the movement of the darn thing. The movement of the darn thing. I don't recall specific but it was just something in the air that Heidi was just like, I get. It, something in the air. I mean there is like especially I'll tell you, especially as the seasons go on, I think you do hit a real good vibe, like a really good sort of flow. And the better and better the animation gets, the more that they can invest in stuff, the more you're in it. Because it's true, like you bring up a good point. Maybe this isn't the point you were bringing up, but it's kind of how we took it, which is like we know who Anakin Skywalker is, Like we you know, this is between films, and yet the Anakin of Clone Wars gets to be something extremely unique, Like he gets to be far more complex.

29:57 Then we get to see him in these other space is he gets to be extremely heroic and also like he gets to be someone that we like respect like tremendously, and then at other times we like we're reminded that he's so young. You know, I think there's a lot inside of it, and I really do think that, Like it's such a gift to have Ahsoka as a character because you can just see how you can maybe like handwave it and be like, well, he'll sacrifice this, like he'll open he'll fall for kad Baine's trick. He takes he takes Ahsoka hostage and basically he's like, I'm an air locker unless you do this thing for me, and he chooses her, and you could kind of handwave and be like but it's because he figures they'll they'll get it and they'll figure it out, right, Like he's like so cocky and it's like maybe and also he loves her and he would literally if when it came down to it sacrifice a whole bunch of more sensitive kids over her, And is that a good thing? Maybe not, But I don't think it's about that. It's about it's about him as a character. And also maybe like what you would do too, Like what would I do in that situation? Probably the same thing, you know, I'd be like, we'll figure it out.

31:19 Yeah. If being in therapy this long has taught me anything is that I'm very avoided of conflict, so I'd probably put it off as much as possible and then at the last minute be forced into a corner and then someone's gonna die. You're like, and you know what, I don't want you to be mad at me, so I'm not gonna let you die and be. A well can I can I die? Like? What if we do it this way? Yeah? Uh, correct me if I'm wrong, But. Hahaha, you're wrong, Okay, I'll.

31:59 Move on to my next point. No good app uh this this notion. I believe Floni's talked about this just in the development of clon Wars, and if not, then I'm attributing it to you where it's it's that and again in the prequels, versus Anakin and the Clone Wars. Anagain in the prequels is a sign post where constantly you're like, you're gonna be Darth Vader. One thing, Oh, gonna be Darth Vader. His entire character within the three prequels is he is going to be Darth Vader. Here's a sign, here's a sign, here's a sign. Ar. But then in the Clone Wars he gets to be a character, yeah, with foibles and successes, and suddenly that line where and he was a good friend in Star Wars the motion picture makes a lot more sense because you've actually seen some good qualities of Anakin Skywalker, because there are scenes where he functions with human faculties.

33:00 It's like a. Cry, here we go. I'm playing the Track Wars drinking game. Please take a shot. It's really nice. Because if there's gonna be if there's gonna be a Track Wars drinking game. You were drink why absence? It's the Track Wars drinking game. Absent. I should have known you're going to drink a pint of absence every time? Yeah, and make it the real stuff. Drink fulp the Track Wars drinking game. Drink a pint of absent every time asking cry. So by this point in the episode, you should have drank three pints of absent.

33:46 You're seeing things, man, you should have been seeing things by now. It's me. I'm right in front of you. I'm giving you a kiss on your forehead. I'm right there with just like Anakin was right there with Obi Wan. Remember remember when Revenge of seth obi Wan says you were the child one. You were my brother, You were my brother. And then in the Obi Wan TV show, which. I liked, it's been a week.

34:32 You had an extraordinarily hard week. Yes, moments like this where you're like, that's right, truly, honestly, best idea to give him Ahska Ahsoka best character in almost Star Wars. You know who else has had a hard week? Doctor Janis Leicester. Doctor Janice Lester has not just had a hard week, She's had a fucking hard life. Yeah, Janie Leicester and her gentleman lover, Arthur, our gentleman lover. I believe that's what his name is, Arthur.

35:12 This little orange jumpsuit, Yeah that's what he's wearing. Right? Yeah? Did I make that up? I? Okay, Oh what an episode? What did you what did you what did you think of this episode? I think I'm not going to go to the mat for this episode, but I think that there are some interesting things to say about this episode. Sure, in absolutely I think a lot if this were a smack dab in the middle of season three would be like, let's move on, let's move on, let's move on. Interesting. That is the final episode, the original interesting.

35:53 Uh. It is one of the stories that Gene Roddenberry actually contributed to the season, and this was one that this might be the only screenplay that kind of the the rewriter of this season Fred Freiberger's number two, Fred Freiberger being the producer of the season. I'm sorry, I thought you were going to say Fred Freiberger's number two. Fred Freiberger too. That's right, he named his number two himself. Part two. Never been funny, but the Arthur Singer who rewrote every single episode this season, because that's what folks did back in the day and they still do you know now.

36:47 This was his soul or if not his sole teleplay screen teleplay credit for a Star Trek then one of two. And so that's interesting and then just fascinating for this to be the final statement of Star Trek, the original series, and to have this bastion of liberal values have a line just that says, your world of Starship Captains doesn't admit women, and then foreground the experience of a woman. That's what this episode is about a woman trying to make it in a man's world and they're just not built for it. Wild the contradictions of Gene Rudnberry's utopian vision.

37:37 And that's because the episode itself. I think what it's good about this episode is, oh gosh, let me look through my notes. I think what's good about this episode is. What is good? Okay, what is good about this episode is that this is more interesting as a failure bureaucracy versus a study in the gender stuff is boneheaded, but living in our nightmare world that we currently live in, and we see something that is oddly prescient and what it takes for good people to stand up against true evil, and Janie Lecter Janis Lester as Captain Kirk is able to take advantage of the bureaucracy that's in place to keep things safe in order to impose some wild things.

38:30 And that's pretty interesting. Sure, but you're right, you gotta go look for those things. I wasn't even thinking about that, and I think it sort of betrays a bit of the like, yeah, the bureaucracy of the thing. But also once again, as we started talking about we started talking about Star Trig at the very beginning of everything, it's still a military structure. It is a naval ship. It is a literal ship in which. The ship is called the USS Navy. Is the OOS NAVVI and and she in the body of Captain Kirk getting to be Captain Kirk. To your point is like, hey, this is still a militaristic, hierarchical structure, and I can use that to my advantage. I'm not saying there's like a perferred other alternative or anything, but like that kind of does bring a little full circle from my little qualms about that, which is super funny.

39:36 Like when I think about when we first started talking about in the very first place, like Star Trek to us, and I was like, how interesting that, you know, I guess there a utopic future is mostly utopic on planet Earth. It's not like it's utopic in this in the stars, and this is not about that, Like we still have the semblance of a structure again, I'm not gonna put a value judgment on it exactly, but I kind of am because I'm like, ew, you know, but that's like all over it. All military structures are all over everything, like it's all over Star Wars. In terms of rebellion, I mean, like you have to have effectively a military structure even within your within your rebellion, right, like you have to captains, you have to commanders. But here we are in this full circle moment of like someone gets to use it to their to they're like they're ill ways.

40:23 In this notion. I had a conversation with a friend of ours recently. I will tell I will tell you who the friend is, off Mike that we were talking about friends. This kind of our friend off Mike. That's right, Yeah, what a guy. Yeah, talking about this notion of this is still effectively a piece of propaganda for military structure inherently because of his depiction of the military. Uh. And even even if it is a full throated condemnation of it, just through depiction alone, there are some elements propaganda and talking about this in relation to Captain Marvel, in relation to top Gun Maverick, in this notion of propaganda and the person that I was talking with was like, oh, yeah, top Gun Maverick definitely a piece of propaganda, but Captain Marvel I don't see it. I know, And I'm like, but it was endorsed by the Air Force same way as top Gun Maverick, to which the person said, well, if that's true, then like all of anything that has the military is propaganda, to which I went, yes.

41:24 You found it, you got to you got to it. Yeah, and then having to clarify that, yeah, all this stuff is propaganda. You just have to make the unfortunate individual choice of how you feel about it. You can be like top Gun Maverick is a piece of evil that definitely boosted entrance into the Air Force, and also you can still be sitting in the front row pumping your fist at the same time, because two contradicting thoughts can't exist. Man, you really thought a really important lesson to our friend off. Mike, hopefully bringing off Mike a little bit more off this time. You know.

42:05 It's funny too, because we've talked about how the Clone Wars is set up to be like, uh, military propaganda by by nature as well, And I know, I don't know how what the intention of it is, but I do think it's interesting that, like I'm gonna use Heidi again, your partner who coming into the show watching it, I think I think maybe you too expressed this feeling very off off put by that, put off by that, yeah, off putting, put off by it, And I wonder if that's on purpose, Like I wonder if it is actually intended, or maybe if it's not intended that way, our feeling that we're taking from it is to actually experience discomfort at it being structured that way.

42:56 I will say the part of it that I like the least is the performance. I still like that guy. Well, he's in this episode still being annoying, intruder. He was in the back, he's in the background. I love that. It's me, I'm back here, I mean, commander, that's true, but I mean it's it's it's a little off topic. But I do think it's interesting because we have talked about it as being modeled after after like military like World War two type propaganda stuff of like soldiers at war on the front, you know. So, yeah, and what does that mean to say, like within the context of the Star Wars story of this war, which while they haven't explored it or the Clone Wars, they haven't explored it as deeply as they could have at this point of the like, you know, it's like good on both sides sort of thing that they you know, start with and reveen to the seth and it's like, oh this, uh, there's a heroes on both sides that like there is an implication there that like this is still a propaganda's type war as opposed to like a real sort of you know, could there be a good and a bad to it? So that's an interesting sort of connection point.

44:19 But yeah, Star Trek just as much military propaganda. I mean, in the same way that our cop shows and our murder mystery shows are technically cop propaganda, and the way that all of all of Marvel, every Marvel film is military propaganda. It's just like there, Doctor Strange, military propaganda. Probably he like opens his dumb little portal and on the other side of it is like a marine. It's just like.

45:02 I forgot that the logo for the Sanctum saying Torum is the Lockheed Martin logo. Yeah, how could you forget? Listen in our alligarchical world. But all I'm gonna Cry Again. Five five pints five pints of Absence with a track Wars D. But but I mean, I think it betrays what we've also been talking about all along, which is the sort of like the sort of like liberal perspective, like the like I'm I'm a good one and you're still like reinforcing a status quo, like you're not actually embodying like a progressive ideal or a leftist ideal. And like it's so funny because I read I don't know which point he said this or whatever. I think you're probably saw in the IMDb trivia on Wikipedia. But Roddenberry was like, oh, you know, I really regretted putting that line in about how women couldn't be captains because it's like makes it seem like it's sexist. It's like, yeah, bro, let's see the fuck we're like, what do you like it? Just it kind of feels pretty obvious that at the end here, and I mean, like you know what, lean into it, fucking lean into it, like and actually make it a real thing.

46:32 Which, just as a reminder, is roden Berry doing more revisionism of being like he was checked out of Star Trek by this point, even though he submitted the story, but basically that was him being like because he gave himself two or three assignments at the beginning of the year. This is one of his assignments. Turnabout Intruder was based on the nineteen thirty one comedic novel turn About Uh This, And it was a comedy. It was a hijinks. You know, there's swapping gender and so Gene ron Berry caused the episode turn About Intruder. This episode is not a comedy. It's a drama. Crew wants to commit mutiny, an insane woman is in the body of the captain. It's not really much hijinks. And then it's not really interrogating, sincerely, what it would mean for a woman to be in a man's body and a man to be in a woman's body. It's not really interested in those things. Don't really know what the initial idea was for good old Gene outside of probably him having a fantasy of being like, what if a woman was in a man's body? I love that idea women. Because I'm Gene Rodberry, I.

47:46 Think I will say that I appreciated. I feel like, actually Shatner, I believe I'm going to say this was playing it really well. I think in this episode, I think there's like there's like little things where I could tell he was like, well, if I'm a woman in this body, like what are what might a woman who like how she's acting, what might be some like little things I might do as opposed to like turning it into like a caricature. There's like a scene where he's filing his nails. Men, people of all genders file their nails.

48:27 It was kind of it kind of worked for me, like it was like something about the way he'd also like hold his shoulders as well or like soften his face in moments. I was just like, Yeah, you're actually doing a portogod job and you're not being a dick about this. And Sander Smith, who is the actor in the body Janis Leicester, projects the authority of Kirk very very easily. It's another one of those where I'm like saved about your guest star for sure. Yeah, there are some good performances at the center of it. Uh, I'm kind of talk around it and I'm pretty sure what you think of this episode, but we haven't technically gotten your first impression. What is your impression of this episode?

49:10 Just initially. I hated it. Great love to hear it. Well. I find it to be what's the meanest thing I could say about something? I can think of a whole bunch of things and I will not utter on the microphone because they be offective. I mean, I've hated things more like I don't Actually, I think I'm mostly just like bored. I'm bored, That's what it is. I was like, ohh and you know you're right. Maybe if it were in the middle, I'd still in the middle of the season. I'd still be like, A this is like you said, I'm like, to what end?

49:52 What are you going for? This isn't fun. I don't give a shit. The only thing I am enjoying are these two people. This is the kind of episode where if it were better, I'd be like, oh, the things that felt obvious, I'd write them off. I'd be like, who cares? Plot hole? If something is emotional and compelling, fantastic, I'm gonna read. But in this case, I'm just like, there are plenty of ways to prove what has happened here that beyond Spock doing a mind mold, Like, there's so many things you could have done that it is actually making me feel insane. We have been with these characters for three years, and the security guards are like, mister Spock, surely you think it's a little bit silly that Kirk is in the body of doctor Janis Lester. My guy. A couple of weeks ago, you ran into Abraham Lincoln in spacce, My guy, you think you think that this is silly. We've run into did presidential honors for Abraham len Abraham Lincoln.

50:53 Here we've run into not one, but two women who turn in two black cats. If I had a nickel for every time that we ran into a woman that turned into a black cat, I have two nickels, which is not that much, but it's weird that it's happened twice. The best meme structure that. Week, we have ran into Apollo, Yes, heard of them, Heard of them? The Captain's best friend turned to God and then got crushed by a rock yep. Oh go back in time multiple times, multiple times and forward in time multiple times. One week just because that was the assignment from Starfleet Command.

51:34 Wasn't an accident something that usually it's a star trek, but this week, for some reason, Starfleet Commander was like, why did you go back in time to nineteen sixty nine? Not usual orders seemed kind of weird. Absolutely, and the guy's last name seven weird. That's weird. First name Gary, Gary, that's an okay name. That is an okay name. They went to a planet that was nothing but Chicago gangsters. He realized that just bumping into a planet, it's nothing but gangsters, Bray Slam Aspen. You hung out with a bunch of children that went boom boom.

52:16 Weird, weird. You can't believe this. You can't believe this. And it's just like like little things that are like clearly, Like last. Year there was there was a group of brain transfer people that were in giant glass domes and the capital is like, it's our obligation to let them inhabit our bodies. Can't Something went up. Yeah, something went out. Everyone's brains this week whenever they couldn't believe that, mister Spock like, I think that this is Captain Kirk and the body of Janis Leicester.

53:02 I was waving my hands around so much that I pulled my headphones out. And every time someone pulls their headphones out or loses audio, you pour the absinthe onto the person that you're drinking with. Yeah, and even just like not even the like oh this is weird, but literally that like at one point, Kirk in Lester's Body is like, hey, here's a specific thing we did, and Spock's like you could have read that, and it's like, okay, well, then let's talk about specific things that we couldn't have read about and let's prove it. Like I genuinely was like, this is so stupid. I'm like, nah, just cut to the mind meld, which they did, which was not a Roddenberry thing. That was Fred Freiberger and Arthur Singer being like, why don't we just have them mind meld right that I'll get this episode moving a little bit right, and it did.

53:52 Like I just found it to be boring and messy, and obviously it's it's colored by the fact that I'm like, what's your fucking point here? Huh? Like, what are you trying to get at? You? Absolute like sex obsessed psychopath girl? What is your in command? Apparently, like genuinely I was. I I wrote the first time this is what happened. I wrote, oh, because because like Bones is starting to kind of be like, hey, I think you need to go in for like an emotional like you seem to be physically okay, but I want you to going for like an emotional like analysis to Kurk and he's like why And it's the development of emotional instability and erratic mental attitudes. And I wrote, because lady, or because she's insane, and then on my second watch on that exact one, saying like it was like Bones, it was a different point where Bones is calling him. Oh, it was like Bones and Scotty were talking to each other and they kept using the word hysterical, and I was like, the common theme of hysterias so obviously gendered.

54:53 Is it insanity because Janis has driven herself insane with the jealousy? Or is it because she's a fucking woman? So clearly, I just was like on the same wavelength a couple of weeks. Apart, Scotty, Scotty doesn't even believe Spock. Oh, it's so stupid, Like it's just dumb. Everybody's holding the idiot ball. Scotty, you were literally you you were inhabited by the spirit of Jack the Ripper once you can't believe it. Scotty one, when you were in love with it was given like true sight by a dying alien race. She was lights of Satar was to get Lights of Saint Tard, Lights of Saintard.

55:37 No one gets. She's the only Worsen ever got Lights of Saint. Tired and lived very rarely, but it happened. It happens only a couple. Of weeks ago, A couple of weeks ago, A couple But this, this is too far. This is too far. This is too far. It's because woman, I fucking woman, I guess. Yeah, So, following the logic of this episode, this woman Janis Lester, who I assume is named after the city of Leicester, where my grandfather is from. Uh. It was originally named Janice Lizette in Roddenberry's final story outline, which is very interesting. It was changed to Janis Leicester in the script after departed producer Robert Justin considered it a conflict with the name of a new writer.

56:25 New writer for the series, Jean Lyzette Arrest. That's a cool name. Yeah, uh, Janice Lisette Jean Blasette, Yeah, weird wild, And then Geene Roddenberry writing a story about how women can't hack it. Oh great, got it? Was it on purpose? Who fucking knows? Who knows? Could have been your little even if it was unconscious. Yeah, so she he comes to her bedside because she's ostensibly dying from some radiation. Basically, you get. I do appreciate a fast, fast download of exposition. We were in love.

57:10 I wanted to be a captain. I couldn't become a captain because the starfleet is fucking sexist and piece of shit. Right now, you became a captain. I lost my goddamn mind because I live in a society Joker. And she started painting her face just like watching does in the twenty nineteen film Joker Jogger. And then she starts like slicing it like in the twenty sixteen film Dark Knight. That's twenty sixteen, so so close.

57:52 I'm actually, to be honest, I think in my brain I thought two thousand and six and said twenty sixteen as if they were the same. Two thousand and six is like the twenty sixteen of the twenty tens. Yeah, yeah, oh my god, oh my god. Not only with your line, but then they give the Janis Leicester in the body of Shatner the line. Believe me, it is better to be dead than to live alone in the body of a woman. Yep, yep. And I read that too, and then all the way down at the bottom of it of my Patriot notes, Janie Lester hates her own womanhood. And I was thinking about this through the lens of this being a trans story. Ah, is it a story?

58:43 No, I don't know. I would be curious about people who are trans if this is something that appeals to them. At all, not necessarily appealing so much with someone that is it is really interesting, more interesting because it's going gender is a binary, it only exists. And I would rather be dead in the body of that I was given at birth. I would prefer I prefer to take it away from that. I think for this conversation I wanted to keep let's keep it just for the sake of it being like this, because that almost feels like squeaky to me. And I don't know why. I don't have to think about it.

59:25 One squeaky thing about that you can't. Like, I think, because I think I'll tell you, Oh, I know, I know why it is here we go because I think we get it into a dangerous space. I'm not going to speak for people. I'm not going to speak for other people. They're people who are wrong. Well, some like like I've gotten this of like oh, non binary just because like what you just like it sucks to be a woman, or like trans men. You know, it's like, oh, did you only transition because it sucks to be a woman. And so I think it's a dangerous space to even to like for us to go. It just doesn't it's not good. I don't think it's helpful.

1:00:06 I think what is more helpful is to contextualize it more in terms of a system that is so dangerous and restricting for marginalized people. And in this case, the marginalized group is women, presumably all women of all races and backgrounds, and that it the like if we were to take it and say, like, let's actually read this in the best way possible, let's read this episode in the best way possible, that like it's truly so it is truly so horrific to be oppressed so much, which yeah that like you literally lose your fucking mind, like and you know what, yeah.

1:00:56 Yeah, wouldn't it have been great if the episode honestly and enter. Yeah, and it doesn't and like everything else, it's like the idea could have been cool, and it just didn't go there. It just had no interest in it, and it like wasn't interested truly in that as like an exploration on that to the point where it's like it's yeah, it's just very much. And what I say that you lose your mind. I mean it in this like the truest sense of like, it is so emotionally and physically exhausting to live in a state of just constant oppression and marginalization for anyone right as marginalized identity. So what does that do to a person? What does that mean? It literally like physically affects you in your life. But this is hysteria. This is still because she's just a silly woman, like and so every time that it could be taken seriously, it's just described specifically to what is already a shitty way of being, like she's insane and like there's even like this last line, well like and even when she is like your world of Starship Captains doesn't admit women, and like it's still refocused on Kirk.

1:02:04 It's like, and you punished and tortured me because of it. It's like fuck you. Yeah, because I was suffering, like like but he's like, oh, but it's still about me. It's like I can't literally leave you know what, she deserves to switch bodies and kill you, like I don't know how fuck you. And in the very last line of the episode, he's like, her life could have been as rich as any woman's if only, if only, It's like, if only, what if only I weren't a sexist piece of shit system? Yeah, yeah, or as rich as any person's Like you absolute nightmare. You have the nightmare people. To me, this is just the reason I'm hating it so much is because it does feel like the culmination of all the shit, Like I can't I'm not, I can't take it out of the context of this is the final episode of TOS, right, It's like.

1:02:52 This is the thesis. On day four of filming this episode, I enjoy this detail and this I do the research from sadly the last time that I'll be citing this book Us with the Voyage Season three by Mark Cushman and Susan Osborne. On day four filming this episode, because there were two episodes that were still going to be in development, but day four this is when Gene Roddenberry, which is very rare at the time, Geene Rodenberry visited the set and brought bad news that this would be the last episode of the season. Aswin. Yeah, I will give you three guests as to who the guest that Gene Roddenberry brought to the bridge of the USS Enterprise is.

1:03:42 The guest. The guest Geene Roddenberry and then guest showed up on day four of filming Turnabout Intruder, the final episode of Star Trek the original series and this and delivered the news that Star Trek would be no more. So Geene Rodenberry in that guest, you get three chances to guess who that guest was. For some reason, the first thought I had, and it's wrong, is like the woman who played Yeoman Janice Rand. That would be a lovely piece of symmetry. No, that makes too much sense.

1:04:22 He's like, here's a person that we literally assaulted and abused and we've run her off an now we're back to tell you that we're ending on this terrible note. And I brought her with me. That's right, awful awful, Actually, I don't know, I don't Oh, was it my other girl? No, I will it is not It is not a woman. It's not someone I like. Is definitely not someone you like. Ask then I want you to buckle down, and I want you to go with the most you get. One more guess. I want you to go with the most left field guests that you can think. Of, the most left field guest. Yes, yes, Okay, what year is that the president?

1:05:04 It is nineteen sixty nine, he's the president. JFK become a CHFK. JFK famously assassinated nineteen sixty three. What's the guest, What is going on with my brain? I was like, he sent us to the moon nineteen sixteen. Nixon, Yeah, uh wow, trophy winner and uh first draft pick by the Bills. Oh. J. Simpson, what the fuck?

1:05:45 Why? Why? Because I have no idea. I have no idea. I'll be JA was president sixty nine and then Nixon is elected Saturday. But then he no, Nixon was president by this. Time because LBJ didn't run for it was sixty eight. Okay, that's it, sixty eight to seventy two. But then okay, but then he. And Nixon was president. That's it, sixty eight to seventy two. Uh. And then was president until seventy four resigned. Ford finished that out and then yes, your departed President Jimmy Carter, Yes, served his country. Sorry, I just needed to prove to everybody I knew how presidents work. O. G. Simpson Why.

1:06:32 I don't know, why did O. J. Simpson do anything? Because the was loose. My guess is they were like out to lunch and they were just like chatting and they were like out and fucking I don't know, and Hollywood, They're at a cafe and He's just like, you know what I'm gonna go do. I'm gonna go up into like I'm gonna go into the studios and I'm gonna go and I'm gonna tell them this is it. This is the end. You want to come with me? And OJ was like, yeah, Okay, that's what I'm imagining happened. I really people are weird. Simpson began acting while at USC and appeared on DRAGONA in an uncredited role as a potential recruit to the Los Angeles Police Department. He became a professional actor before playing professional football, appearing in the first episode of Medical Center.

1:07:18 Sicily Tyson's husband, despite being twenty three years her junior, while negotiating his contract with the bills. Okay, weird, weird, What a weird detail, What. A weird detail in a very weird episode of Star Trek, especially considering that this is what becomes the thesis for live action Star Trek the original series. That's oh yeah, I mean this is the ending statement, and how appropriate that it ends this confusingly because Star Trek and such highs, has such lows, and it's just a mess of an episode. And in a way it is kind of a perfect embody it on Star Trek because it's just weird.

1:08:04 Yeah, it's just weird, and it made me mad, you know what it did? What? It just disappointed. I'm not mad, I'm just disappointed. I'm just disappointed. That's what so many things whenever you find out about Geen Roddenberry, God, what did well kind of his behavior can straight up make me mad? God damn? You know. Yeah, get out of dodge, get out of town. M hm A long time ago. Start dating this week. I quoted a boat, I dated a game, but none of them could warp my drive into hyper space. The best of both worlds can meet in the second place, Captain slog on a Halla kron I wanted a song.

1:09:05 I pend a song. Seventeen more minutes advise. In super high dev. Aboard the USS Enterprise DT. Don't you take my walk lighter and clip it. Don't you take my wretched buddy and nip it? If you spill the tea, I'm gonna nip it. My starship, it ask been. What are we doing right now? Oh, my friend, my dear dear friend. We are going to choose our favorite starships as ships through the sky. Yeah, we're gonna choose our favorite ship, said gois on whatever service they want a romance ship ship of romances.

1:10:00 As that's absolutely correct. Thank you so much, describing thing. Very much, are jeez Louise speaking of geeves Louise, Let me go ahead and. Start first, okay, well with the ship ship of the sky. Well, the ship ship of the sky. Yes, I guess technically a ground vehicle, and because I thought that it was called att but canonically it's known as AT eight, going to treat that as a different vehicle. So I'm choosing the AT eighty three hundred. I love them.

1:10:40 It's all right, a little bit of ships that flat through the sky. I love them. And that is very cool. I enjoy them. I enjoy that maneuver very much. I think it is very cool. H Aspen, Wow, what space bound things that have some sort. Of meant Yeah, well that was going to be mine, so now I am forced to make mine. Oh wait, I think we've technically already done this. I was going to say Captain Kirk, but I think we've done Captain Kirk is a vehicle because he was ridden by someone like a pony. One that's true.

1:11:20 To choose Janet Leicester, janis Leicester, Janis Leicester, I mean Janie Lester yep. The body switching machine. The body swipping switching machine. I would, I would if I could choose choose Kirk because it's much funnier. It feels actually kind of mean when it's her. I don't know much funnier, though I guess it is truly against his will, though it's against his will to be in her body, though it is her will to Okay, whatever, That's. What I pick. She is a vehicle and she's in the sky.

1:12:05 That's good enough, right, that's good enough. Remember when Kirk was ridden like a pony? Yeah? And Plato step children? Why ten out of five Episode nothing wrong with that episode at all. That's a that's actually the episode I was thinking of. But I was watching the Clone Wars episode, a far better episode than Plato Switch. But like in the sense of like watching people be tortured is so horrifying for me, And it's like the first time Clone Wars has ever been like truly that much, like a person is being tortured to death, but not nearly. And I was like, man, I was like the Star Trek episode. So anyway, no, yep, yep. Now we gotta talk about people who want to kiss kiss.

1:12:46 People were gonna kiss kiss, and it's a bit sweating. It's sweaty. You had a sweaty one. But I'm going to go for it. You're going to do it because if not, Now when I want to pick Scotty and. Kirk, oh my gosh, we never did it right. Never never did it because never it's the triumph Kirk spot McCoy. But since Kirk is always going on away emissions with his boyfriends, who's left picking up the piece is always good loyal scot Scotty, who just he sees the way that Kirk looks at Spock and McCoy. He knows how it is, But it's it's an unrequited sort of affection, you know. M and so whenever Spock and mccoyir, especially Spock suggesting mutiny, mutiny against Kirk. Yeah, the most tender man who loves the Enterprise, and only a way that an engineer could Kirk would be with a woman.

1:13:59 But only Kirk and Scott. You're able to see the ship as the lady that she is having to be taken care of it so well, Scotty knows that has to have some sort of physical companionship. In that physical companionship is of course embodied within the triumvir to Kirk's block in choice, Scotty hopes beyond hope that the real triumvir it could be Kirk Scott in the Enterprise left them wone changing out the di lithium chambers. M M. The Enterprise is a woman that's kind of just a man.

1:14:44 That's beautiful. This is good. I'm gonna go an again and Admiral Wister Lauren just because there's a lot. Of Yeah, real, If I know that, then I probably would have picked Janis Lester Coleman. No, No, it's. An upsetting relationship, an upsetting relationship that's an upsetting one, especially. When Coleman gets Janis Lester and she's so sincerely disturbed about being back in her own body and yeah, and he asks her to be discharged into his care and he says, you are as I loved you.

1:15:34 What does that mean? I mean, I guess she's back in her body, but like. Fuck, she clearly doesn't want to be there. But no, thank goodness that you get to be care to. Are you sick freak? Also, I think it's implied right that, like, I mean, not implied, explicitly stated that like he is, like they murdered other people, right, like she switched into other bodies. And the beginning of the episode, there there's a there are deaths of colonists that happen on the screen, right due to radiation exposure. Yes, so yeah, and the leverage that Lester is able to hold lover Coleman's that you're an accomplice to murder.

1:16:14 Yes, yeah, they're just like, okay, bye, take your girlfriend. I guess we fixed it all. God, it's so weird. It's the end of the episode at the. End of Star Trek original series. Yes, I'm assuming that you watched the version on Paramount Plus. I did, which has it ending is a. Better ending because we get the Enterprise going off into a nebula as opposed to like the Enterprise just going off because it's just another episode. And not only that, but the episode was dumped in June because the uh, the original air date had to get moved because Dwight Eisenhower died the original week that the episode was ran, so it got it got bumped for coverage of the press of the of Eisenhower, and so uh. Not not only that, but they used that knowledge because they knew that a letter campaign, letter writing campaign was going to happen, so NBC could go Star Trek is coming back because it technically was coming back in June, which then actually lessened the amount of mail that they got, so they couldn't be like, well, we got the same amount of mail. No, they got a lesser amount of mail because they were able to say Star Trek is coming back for one episode, thereby putting their their finger on the scale and letting Star Trek go out not with a bang, but with

1:17:46 a whimper. Nasty, nasty, It's super nasty, and a season that was set up to fail from the beginning, because, as we talked about at the beginning of the season three episodes, Jean Roddenberry was a diva to deal with. Although that might be giving divas a bad name, Geen Roddenberry was extraordinarily difficult to work with. He played hardball when hardball wasn't really necessary. He was a grand stander. He turned audiences against the network, and the network was like, making this Star Trek stuff is extremely expensive. We don't understand it. And while the network wasn't necessarily a good guy all the time, Geen Roddenberry was such a Barnum esque type figure that was able to successfully spend the narrative that NBC was the devil and Roddenberry was the second coming of Christ, and that just wasn't the case, made all the more evident by digging into the behind the scenes details and seeing that he was checked out from this season largely. He was there at the beginning, he did his basic assignments and then was focused on trying to make a life outside of Star Trek. By this point, I gotta pull up the good summary. I gotta pull up the quote yep here because these the voyages goes into the months after or leading up to

1:19:16 the cancelation and then the cancelation. That's a funny quote that I gotta come back to. Rotten Berry ended his He's writing a letter about how Fred Freiberger sucked, because. That's classic. That's what it what it was, and it was just a piece of correspondence with his friend John W. Campbell. And in this letter he said, time I think to wash Star Trek out of my hair. Stop the habit of it playing a part in every thought. Get on to start scaling the mountaintop. This was seventeen episodes into the third season of Star Trek. He saw the writing on the wall. Everyone saw the writing on the wall.

1:20:07 As you can read in these are the voyages. Everyone was pretty darn sad and they knew that Star Trek was a dying ship. It's a turnbout and intruder. Aired in June, a month before the moon landing. It goes out with whimper. No one really likes this episode. It's only kind of really important because the contradictions inherent with the finale of Star Trek the original series. Yeah, what a bummer. Bummer, Too bad that Star Trek never comes back. Yeah, we never have it again not ever, it's never put into syndication and then adored for years and years of the original series, and there's no animated original series, and there's no expansion of Star Trek for years and years of years to.

1:20:50 Come, and you never get Star Trek Prodigy never doesn't exist. Oh I finished the speaking of Star Trek geting canceled. Watched All the Lower Decks. Now that that's a beautiful finale. That's a that's like the most one of the most beautiful, perfect finales I've ever. Seen in thirty minutes incredible, like thirty minutes perfect, incredible show. I'm going to rewatch that. I love Lower Decks with every bit of me. Well, what's funny most recent piece of Star Tek? I what you know, it's interesting. It's like we're on the second episode of season two of Clone Wars as we finish cos as a show, and we're going to have many more seasons of Clone Wars, and it's funny that as this thing is sort of like winding down with the whimper and ends abruptly, it does feel like I will say this Clone Wars is give out to like start going yes, like it's just it just only gets better from here.

1:21:52 This was the episode where I was like, cat Banes got the juice, as evident by the fact that I literally wrote cat Banes got the juice. It's got the juice. Really enjoyed him in Cargo of Doom. And then he also touches the brim of his hat, which I need to watch The Good, the Bad, and the Algolade to see if that was a thing that they stole from Lee Marvin, who I believe it's based off of. I think that's cool. Kadmane's got the juice. He's got the juice, like corn It's got the juice. It's got the juice. You know what I got? The juice has been us giving these scores. Absolutely art exists only in only in a good or bad and only by putting a numerical value on it can we concretely answer which is better. Star Trek or Star Wars. Once again, the episodes are Cargo of Doom from Star Wars, the Clone War season two, episode two, versus Turn About Intruder, the final episode of Star Trek the original series. I will go first with Cargo of Doom, and I will give this a robust seven great out cool I wish I had more to say about it, but that's what I got to say about it. Just a good app. Well, I said, a great up and it is a great app understatement, that's on what you got.

1:23:16 I think I liked this one a little more than holocron Heist. It looks like I gave holocroon Christ a seven point five, So I'm gonna give this one a seven point six. Which means Cargo Doom. Is that a collective total of seven point three? But it's still Oh, anyone's game, absolutely anyone's game. As we pop over to Turn About Intruder, and my ranking is that I'm gonna give this one a five point five because a I'm looking at my ranking for all our yesterday. No, you know what, because I'm actually gonna give this one a six point five. So I remember all our yesterday's just being a little slop beer.

1:24:01 Uh. And I think I found my way into this episode of enjoying this episode. And I'm gonna go to the app for Turnabout Intruder. Nah, But you know, I like what I like, And I said that there were some interesting things to see in this episode. It's a little bit cleaner than all our yesterday's uh astin what are you going to give turn About in Tudor? I'm gonna give it a point five? Help you do love to see it? You do love to see it? I deserve after the week I've had a spite ranking. Is this really a point five? No?

1:24:42 But is it a point five to me? Yes? Yes, there you go. Uh it brings turn About Intruders collective total to three point five, which means Aspen, Yeah, Aspen, Aspen, Star Wars, when's the week breathe in three? Then the air focused. Ash that's Star Trek on fine, that's Star Trek on our one hundred episodes in. Our collective ranking of Star Trek for one hundred episodes is at a six point zero three round six point zero four versus Star Wars is collective total of six point five four one hundred episodes, and which means that after one hundred episodes Star Wars, it's pretty healthily and delate.

1:25:42 Oh man, oh man, oh man. Before we do wrap it for the night, that's the end of Star Trek, the original series. That's it. What it's been. I believe the last time I revisited this was probably around college. It's been a long time scion since I've read visited the original series, certainly not in this granular detail and certainly not having any literature to read along with it. This is I've learned so much about this even being the Star Trek contingent, so much, so much myth making completely challenged, and it was so much fun to watch this show. Well, we'll watch it again, sure, Yeah, for sure, Aspen, this is this is the first time that you've made it through the original series. You've made it through Voyager, You've made it through what other Star Trek have you watched?

1:26:38 Strange Human worlds? The first time with the Star Trek the original series. Yep, first time watching every single episode. If you had to pitch this to a complete stranger, and you do because of the podcast, this not just not the podcast, just like Star Trek the original series. I'm like, because there's a way to pitch the one. You say it at the top every time. That's true. Do not remember what you say? Uh? What are your thoughts? What are your feelings about Star Trek the original series? What do you think? What are you taking away from it? Wow? Wow, wow, wow? I think on the whole I love Star Trek original series. I think I will always I'm always gonna love the way it feels, the characters.

1:27:30 I'm always gonna wish it had been a little bit more, and also understand why it wasn't. I think one of the biggest themes that I think is important that I'm going to keep coming back to is sort of like the same George Lucas ask, like, you know, myth of the Great the Great Man, myth of Roddenberry. Like, I think from a sort of production standpoint, it's really interesting. I think important to keep that contextualization in place because I think it's important for us to know where are stories come from and to be critical and thoughtful of them. And then also at the same time, like Star Trek Original series as a matter if I gave us a point five, the amount like what it gave to culture is pretty like is tremendous, and what it gave to the rest of what would become this huge, this huge work of Star Trek is incredible. So it's sort of like your uncle that sometimes says something racist and you're like thanks, then he like gives you like a chocolate bar and you're like, okay, thank you. And also like he's got he like gave birth, He gave birth, he like has some cool kids that are your cool cousins, you know, and you're like, I love these guys. It's kind of like what it does.

1:28:52 I can't top that, so I'm not going to uh false. If you two would like to celebrate your slightly racist and the track up bars that they've given you, why don't you hit us up on our social media accounts. So we're on Blue Sky, Instagram, at track wars Pod. Additionally, you can send us an email trek wordspod at gmail dot com and finally hop over to our Patreon Patreon dot com slash at track wars Pod, where for five dollars a month you can get early versions of these episodes and extended versions of these episodes. And you two could join the fine for uh you could you too, join the auspices of fine folks such as Timbo De Sosa, Eddie Rodgers, Kevin Miller, Arizona, Mark Austin Aaron, the albav Cactus otherwise known as Nick Urruti Librarian Nick, and lastly, but certainly not leastly Jolty Partner, who are composed our I Starship at theme Song Our main theme song is by mister tosin our Fesso. Please visit the show notes below to hit up some more of his work. You saw his work, listen to some of his other music.

1:29:54 Am I forgetting anything else that's one? No, Rate and review us while you're at it. It is our hundredth episode. We've been doing this for a while now, and if you'd like anything that has come across your ears, just leave us a review on the podcast or of your choice, but you know, preferably Apple podcasts because that's probably where most people listen to their podcasts. Either that or Spotify. Anything else that's been. No except that I love you Aspen. I love you so much. Thanks for one hundred episodes. Here's to one hundred more. May the Force be with you and live long and prosper