Empire Strikes Back v. A Private Little War

WEBVTT

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Welcome to the Track Wars podcast,
the Internet's exclusive outlet for all things trying

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to answer that one important question,
which is better Star Trek or Star Wars

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by going through both franchises and chronological
release order. I am Kenny Madison,

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the Star Trek contingent with me as
for always. Hi, my name's Aspin

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Webster, and I'm the Star Wars
contingent. And this week let's get down

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to brass tacks. Damn. I
have to make that big go longer so

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that you have more of a reaction
to it next time. Wait, what

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was the bit? You didn't notice
my bit? No, we got we

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gotta get to this. Can't I
even doing a bit for like a year

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now? The bit is that when
you introduce me, I I like never

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actually just say who I am?
Like I just like I make it like

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I do a dumb thing or make
a weird voice or something. That's when

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I have I literally listen to every
single episode. I listened to some of

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the episodes twice three times. Yeah
you don't, you don't notice my bit?

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Nope? Have I been Have I
been doing the bit? Or have

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I just has it been a dream? Have I introduced myself? Normally every

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single time. Kenny, am I
okay, am I having a stroke?

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That baby cool. I guess you
just gotta get to it. Speaking of

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deep seated portrayals and uh, perhaps
projecting images of deception in order to keep

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yourself safe and gardner control. Oh
my god, we're just used you just

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using me as your segue. Speaking
of is today we're covering the Empire strikes

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Back special edition versus a Private Little
War The Empire Strikes Back famously star wars

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in a Private Little War from Star
Trek the original series Aspen. How are

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you doing today? Uh, I'm
okay. We just chattle that. So

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that was good. But now my
back hurts. My lower back hurts.

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I think I should probably stretch more. Probably should be a thing that I

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should do. I think when I
was younger, I didn't think I would

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YouTube, and now I think I
need to. Yeah, I think about

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doing some yoga, maybe maybe drinking
more water, getting into yogurt, yogurt,

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eat more yogurt, getting into yogurt. Yeah. So yeah, I

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think that's I'm just like reflecting on
that. My back kind of hurts.

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Speaking of reflecting, I think it's
kind of to reflect on the synopties of

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these films for people that are playing
the home game. My favorite thing is

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that the reason I think you're like, ask them we got to get to

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it is because in our Patreon part
I was just like Kenny, we can't

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keep talking. We have to get
to our podcast because it's late. We're

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gonna need to go to sleep at
some point. And now I'm the one

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dilly Delly, but I gotta make
jokes. Speaking and making jokes. The

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premisey is of these episodes is anything
butto joke, as we take these two

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properties extremely seriously, starting with A
Private Little War from Star Trek the original

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series, written by Teleplay Rather We're
sorry, let me start from the beginning

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story by jud Crusis, teleplay by
Gene Roddenberring, directed by Mark Daniels,

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aired February two, nineteen sixty eight, from an NBC press release issue January

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third, nineteen sixty eight. An
inhabitant of the imperialistic planet Klingon is sent

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to execute the takeover a peaceful,
primitive neural, forcing Captain Kirk to wage

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quote unquote a Private Little Warrant on
NBC Television Network Star Trek color cast of

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Friday February second, Kirk and his
officers being down on Neural for a routine

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meeting, only to find that the
Klingon's Kroll already has shared of trouble between

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the Planes people under the leadership of
Tyree and the hill People under the leadership

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of Appella. Tyree's wife, no
Nah, wants her husband to make use

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of kirk super weapons so that she
can become queen. Resulting war brings about

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a costly peace. Cool sounds fun, sounds like a great time. If

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you thought that was a great time, you both you be right. Except

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see if you think that that was
a great time, you my star trek

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Vane, I really love that discribe. You might really love the original series.

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Do you like my new character Jeff
Trackworthy? I do. You should

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just do that every time. Let's
you a new segment, Live long and

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prosper. You might be trek Vine. Oh my god, I think I

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I think I'd die. You find
yourself going along the planes looking for the

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hill people, then get poisoned by
and move got to You got to?

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You might be a treking. I
realized where I had heard move got to

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and seen it before, and it
was in lower decks. Because I've never

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seen this episode before. It was
five minutes of Mike. Let's strike that

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from the record. So instead of
reading the description for Empire Strikes Back,

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because we all know what it's about, this is our third time talking about

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it, but of course we did
not talk about the special editions. I'm

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going to read a Reddit post by
someone who's deleted their account, but it's

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from three months ago and the Star
Wars subreddit outstanding. I've heard a lot

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that the Empire Strikes Back has the
best special edition because it didn't have a

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lot of the really infamous changes the
other two films had, and overall was

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changed the least. I do agree
that it is technically the best of the

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three, but the Special Edition of
The Empire still makes some baffing, bafflingly

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bad changes. First off, I
will bring up the one major change I

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really like is what they did with
Cloud City. It's much more vibrant in

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the Special Edition, and it feels
more like a real city. It's probably

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the best change made in all the
films. I also like the clean up

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special effects. However, unfortunately the
bad change is still outweigh the good ones.

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And I'll stop there because we know
what happens at Empire, but so

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what I learned from that is of
the three, this one is considered to

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be the least bad of the three
in terms of what is sign magnificantly changed.

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Of course, knowing that a lot
of things are changed on a more

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minor level, like color grading and
stuff that maybe you don't see as much,

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but when it comes to say like
changing things but dialogue inserting unnecessary scenes,

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it appears to me that this one
is considered the least offensive. Thank

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you deleted user from Reddit. And
of course, The Empire Tracks Back Special

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Edition was released February twenty first,
nineteen ninety seven. Story credit by George

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Lucas and screenplay credit by Lee Brackett
and Lawrence Canstan and director by hold On.

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I'm getting knocked at the Truck Wars
door. Hold On, let me

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open it. Oh hello, oh, oh, it's me Irvin Kirshner.

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Did you I heard that. I
heard that you were talking about The Empire

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Strikes Back, one of the films
that I directed. I directed that after

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the Eyes of Laura Mars, but
before at the time I directed Robo cop

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To. I didn't even know and
never say never again. The James Bond

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film The James the very same.
Oh my gosh, wait, what's your

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favorite movie you've ever directed? Irving? I think that it has to be

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most definitely with a bullet if the
question happens to be that you are wanting

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me to answer which one of my
films are my favorite that I have ever

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directed? And in looking at my
filmography to answer your question of which one

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is my favorite? Are you looking
yourself up on IMDb right now? Irving?

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Robo cop too? Okay, rad, I've not seen it? Good?

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Oh oh wow, I just left
all right? And again that is

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Empire strikes back director Urban Wow,
Kenny, did you know God? So

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nice that he came by, especially
considering he's dead. Wow, that doesn't

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stop people. There were two original
versions of the film, the seventy millimeter

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and the thirty five, So some
of the don't like that. How do

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you know that? How do you
know that Coopleet accident? A complete accident?

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How was it? I googled something
and you googled something? Yeah,

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but it was yeah, but it
was like it was like googling. I

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was just like, dang, why
everyone's so in this film? You know?

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And then they were like did you
know there were two original versions and

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far fewer people, of course saw
the seventy millimeter, and many more saw

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the thirty five and some of the
changes, and some people, I don't

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know if this is confirmed, but
people were speculating that there are that the

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there could have been better quality sound
on the seventy milimeters, So there's changes,

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there's dialogue changes that are actually in
the seventy milimeters that were not in

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thirty five and are now in the
remastered version. Isn't that wild? Yeah?

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Yeah, Lucas's revisionism starts in the
theater, in the theater where it

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should be sacred. That's what they
were saying, even though this is not

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his film, Even though, as
we discussed last week at length, this

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special edition experiment is part of highlighting
the Star Wars saga, the Star Wars

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franchise, reminding us Star Wars trilogy
good and also this narrative that this all

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kind of sprang forth from George Lucas
has said, fully formed, it's a

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masterpiece. It's all one story.
Get excited for the prequels. You wrote

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all of this down in a mythic
document, Christ Almighty. As opposed to

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what happened, which is it's filmmaking
by committee. Yeah, and it is

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filmmaking by committee. I don't know
what you want from me. Tell me

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more, say more filmmaking, Say
more things to make me grumpy. Sure,

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well, maybe don't. Maybe let's
do first impressions both of these things.

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What's the first impression theme song?
There we go, that's the theme

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song. Well, Joel, if
you want to make a first impressions theme

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song, you can do that.
I watched the show, watch this movie.

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It was sweet. That's what they
tell me. First impression. I

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wrote it. You can tell you
the real talent is in his household.

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Ah. Anyways, first impressions,
Yeah, strikes Back? Does it hold

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up? To say, Aspen?
Does the Star Wars film that you ranked

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number one? Does it hold up? Does does a film where every single

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filmmaker that makes the sequel is like
this one is going to be the Empire

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strikes Back of our series? Does
hold up? Does the Empire Strikes Back

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hold up? Ah? Maybe I'll
talk about it and the remastered. In

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terms of that, I think I
agree with deleted subreditor, whoever you are

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out there that I was. I
don't think the changes are as disruptive,

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and I think some of them are
actually. In addition, there's of course

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that what I was talking about before
of the color grading. Some adjustments that

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I do think are remastering and the
truest sense of remastering, or we're trying

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to get this up to standards so
that it looks good for you on the

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various televisions in movie theaters to the
movie screens you watch it from. That

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is great, and you can tell
that there's good changes. When it comes

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to bigger changes, I do think
some of them actually are good. I

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do think Cloud City, I think
Bestmin looks lovely to me. It's a

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little I think similarly to most iiicely. I don't like the dumb dumbness of

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it all, but I do like
the kind of bustling feel. At least

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Lucas has the good sense to not
put a bay or Honkin ronto right swinging

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a Java around right exactly the time. It truly is just we're expanding the

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scope of what this place could be, as opposed to the theatrical where the

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Millennium Falcon and the cloud cars fly
in, and that it's cut to the

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falcon landing on the platform right and
I am. I obviously am perfectly fine

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with that, and I think it's
probably clear I do prefer the very original

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versions, but if you are taking
the tools that you have on hand,

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it is not a bad addition to
make to make it a bit more bustling,

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to add in more detail. It
feels very alive, and I do

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think of cloud City as being a
very lively place full of people who are

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working and are part of this place. Yeah, it feels very it feels

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very vivacious to me, and it
felt even more so it feels very ethereally

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vivacious, if that makes sense,
and feels a lot less empty, and

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that's lovely. Some other things,
and again I'm very, very nitpicky,

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but these are the biggest changes.
The Wampa. Actually, they added some

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Wampa scenes I noticed, and whoever
was I don't know if someone was in

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a Wampa costume or if it was
puppeted. I imagine there was a Wampa

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costume. Whoever was doing that was
truly terrifying in the way that they were

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moving and I was. I think
there's a lot to be said about not

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seeing the creature and the dread of
was it going to come get me?

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But I know the wamp is there, so maybe it rewards me as being

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a frequent watcher to have the camera
cut to that wampa noawn on something with

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blood dripping off its face and then
looming as it stands like I'm gonna getcha,

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and I was just like gonna,
So yeah, I mean, those

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are details, So maybe it goes
outside of the realm of first impressions,

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but far less distracting this time around. There are some pieces. I am

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grumpy, but still still a fabulous
film to watch. Pacing is not ruined,

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unlike New Hope. Pacing, although
there is that sequence at the end

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where Vader says, bring me my
ship and then Luke and Vader shuttle are

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intercut, and it feels wrong.
You mean when it's describe the scene Vader

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at the end, you know,
or so is it where is it where

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Luke's like father and it kind of
keeps switching over to Vader. That's good,

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Okay, that is great. Yeah, where Luke's just chilling at the

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bottom of cloud cit he hanged at
the bottom of Cloud Stay and I believe

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it intercuts in betwixt yes, and
He's like, prepare my shuttle, which

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is different because I think before it's
like, oh, all he says in

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the original is like bring me my
shuttle or he'll like get my shuttle,

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and he's like fucking spits it because
he is just like God damn it.

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But I don't remember when he says
it. And then the shuttle in the

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special edition is the shuttle flies to
the Star Destroyer, and it cuts the

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tension of Skywalker literally hanging yes with
nothing but clouds. Yes, yes,

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yes, yes, it pokes a
balloon because you just go back towards Darth

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Vader driving Kenny. I'll tell you
what I was saying, Yes, Aspen,

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Kenny, Yes, Aspen. I
think to night right, I think

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a lot. I'm just stuck in
this old nug and all the time kunking,

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and maybe we said this explicitly.
I don't remember clearly anything I say.

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I said something else tonight and Joel
was like, you've literally said that

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exact story or you've said that exact
thing, And I'm like, do you

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know how many episodes of this?
I'm sure I repeated myself a billion dimes.

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I only have so many things I
can say, like I'm gonna tell

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you the same story over and over
again. I don't like it, thank

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you, And maybe this is what
we were we were getting it. We

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were dancing around this of that didn't
hit on it exactly. Okay, Robin,

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I am dancing on my own.
I'm in the car watching George Lucas

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bucket. Whoa, I'm the artist. God, what the fuck was I

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gonna say? Okay, answer that. It's that the idea that we have

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to be so explicit in everything we
are showing and saying, as opposed to

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letting the audience be smart, letting
the audience put it together, or letting

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their have letting there be a smodicum
of mystery to it, and the desire

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to to simplify it at the at
the cost of the editing and the storytelling

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and the feel and the pacing of
it. And that's just like the thing

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I feel the most with these how
fascinating and also it's fascinating to do this

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with the juxtaposition of the new narrative
of George Lucas, his new style of

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filmmaking where everything is quite plainly stated. As I have also said before,

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I think subtlety is underrated or overrated
is overrated. You don't need to be

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subtle and also the changes I think, as you said, do you make

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things more explicit. It's literally revealing
more mystery, you know, because Lucas

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wants it. And also we exist
within a paradigm where there is no room

220
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for satlety anymore. Yeah, because
everything can be taken out of context.

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Which is a completely separate conversation as
opposed to talking about the Empire strikes Back

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special editions, which so interesting within
the Great Man narrative of George Lucas and

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what he wanted the Star Wars trilogy
to be. But we're not into that

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yet. We're still in first impressions. Sorry, we're still in first impressions.

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So yeah, that was my first
impression, these impressions. But also

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we haven't talked about that yours are
a Star Trek yet. Uh. Private

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00:20:59.279 --> 00:21:03.039
Little War interesting episode that might not
entirely work. So go back to Empire

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00:21:03.079 --> 00:21:07.240
strikes Back, No I do.
Here we go, Let's go to deep.

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Let's go to deeper dive. Let's
go to deeper dive. Let me,

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okay, we'll talk about no no, no, no, no,

231
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no no no. I tell my
first impression of Private Little War. Oh

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okay, the same as you deeper
dive. Here we go. There's a

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whole lot that I'm gonna be talking
about in regards to a private little war.

234
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Okay, but I just want to
talk about Empire strikes back in relation

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to the great Man narrative that I've
been I've been weaving into this and I

236
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want you to pipe in frequently because
it's fun. What if I pipe in

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00:21:36.680 --> 00:21:40.240
in character? I don't know what
character? Do you want to pick a

238
00:21:40.319 --> 00:21:44.799
character? Yeah? I just be
like, it's me, Fry insane,

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00:21:45.200 --> 00:21:48.160
who's this? Who's this character?
Please? Don't not talk. Please don't

240
00:21:48.160 --> 00:21:52.720
put this in your jfl audition.
Real, don't do that, Fry insane,

241
00:21:52.039 --> 00:21:56.680
don't do that? What stopcord?
Don't what? This is a terrible

242
00:21:56.720 --> 00:22:04.400
choice, A lot to make popcorn
sugar Moreen Michael's is sitting there famously cross

243
00:22:04.480 --> 00:22:07.039
armed, and then she writes it
down. It just goes. That's when

244
00:22:07.039 --> 00:22:15.480
Webster star. Oh my god,
I love her. I just invented her.

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She's so good. That's her only
character trait fancy. She loves popcorn.

246
00:22:19.319 --> 00:22:23.519
Can you imagine? She made popcorns
so many ways? But she has

247
00:22:23.519 --> 00:22:30.799
a paper. It's getting close to
Lissa McCarthy's pizza lady. Sorry, I'll

248
00:22:32.000 --> 00:22:37.599
just chime it as myself the real
character, because who says what a human

249
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is? Is this the face the
character I present to the world or is

250
00:22:41.440 --> 00:22:48.240
it truly me? WHOA Okay?
So on our Empire stracks back versus Star

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Trek two episode covered a lot of
material, covered a lot about the development

252
00:22:52.319 --> 00:22:59.599
of this covered a lot about IRMA. Kershner is a different approach the special

253
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Edition and first and foremost is not
an urban Kurshner approved project. Kersh as

254
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a Kersh the Kersh Yeah, fuck
yes, Kersh is not necessarily on bad

255
00:23:18.640 --> 00:23:22.400
terms with Lucas. You were gonna
see change changes. But he was like,

256
00:23:23.720 --> 00:23:29.279
he didn't sign off on these because
it's George Lucas project. It's a

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lucasfilm product. Can I interrupt you
real quick? Always aspen, always as

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myself. These people I'm paying tain
like popcorn crazy. There these people who

259
00:23:44.599 --> 00:23:47.480
are not necessarily a bad terms but
do kind of like dislike each other in

260
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a little grum crumbs. Do you
think they're just like because they're in the

261
00:23:51.000 --> 00:23:53.519
same like, you know, I
don't even think Kersh was on bad terms

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00:23:53.519 --> 00:23:56.759
with Lucas because Lucas went to Kersh
because he was like, I'm a fan

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of yours. You were, if
I remember correctly, Kersh And I think

264
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I covered this on the previous Empiusjack's
Back episode. One of the three,

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one of the two. Kirsh was
Lucas's professor, right, you did talk

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about that Lucas literally looks left Kersh
but also still make changes on the special

267
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edition. But also that might be
an explanation of why the changes are not

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so intrusive in a film that Lucas
famously did not like he did it?

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Did we talk about that? Have
you told me that I'm not trying?

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When I googled why are these people
so hot? Why didn't I say that?

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Yeah? I don't know. I
just know that Lucas, when watching

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this film was like, this is
not what I wanted. Let me try

273
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and cut my own version. What
did he want? He what he made?

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And you can read allusions to this
the Alan Dean Foster film Splinter of

275
00:25:00.160 --> 00:25:03.880
the Mind's Eye. Star Wars was
going to go one of two ways.

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00:25:03.880 --> 00:25:08.759
Star Wars was either going to go
to where it went, which is the

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Empire Strikes Back way, an odd
film that, instead of heightening the stinks,

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went inward, made the journeys,
more character based, complicated characters,

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and interrogated the hero's monomith in an
interesting way, and interrogated the real nature

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00:25:30.400 --> 00:25:36.279
of selflessness. Ten out of ten
love it? Then? Yeah, Lucas

281
00:25:36.400 --> 00:25:40.400
was like, what if we go
the way of Indiana Jones where these are

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just individual adventures. I see,
we all know that that second Indiana Jones

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00:25:45.920 --> 00:25:56.680
film, Temple of Doom so good. He's monkey's brains and you can read,

284
00:25:56.000 --> 00:26:02.720
you can read? Uh do that
guy and Francy would be best friends.

285
00:26:02.839 --> 00:26:10.440
Yeah, Jeff Tracksworthy and Francie who
eats bockworn our jfl audition real is

286
00:26:10.440 --> 00:26:17.160
gonna be so tight. So anyway, Splinter of the Mind's Eye, which

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00:26:17.400 --> 00:26:25.640
if you have read it is no
very much. I read it not as

288
00:26:25.680 --> 00:26:30.440
research, just as a fun thing
because I was like, what was star

289
00:26:30.559 --> 00:26:33.640
Wars high in fiction without all the
backage of Star Wars? And Splinter of

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00:26:33.680 --> 00:26:38.599
the Mind's Eye was commissioned by George
Lucas it being like, if Star Wars

291
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doesn't work, we can just make
like a cheapy sequel, and that Splinter

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of the Mind's Eye. So Splinter
of the Mind's Eye by Alan Deine Foster,

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00:26:47.440 --> 00:26:52.680
it's this unused screenplay idea by George
Lucas or Alanine Foster. Either way,

294
00:26:53.279 --> 00:26:56.799
unused screenplay idea, which is just
them looking for the Kayper crystal.

295
00:26:59.000 --> 00:27:06.680
Oh on mimban, like any kiber
crystal, Like he needs to kyber crystal.

296
00:27:06.759 --> 00:27:10.519
Oh like there's only one? Yeah, because remember this is detached from

297
00:27:10.640 --> 00:27:14.559
the rest of Star Wars continuity.
Sorry, I was like, that's absurd.

298
00:27:14.759 --> 00:27:17.720
There are multiple kyber crystals and you
have to go find yours when you're

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00:27:17.720 --> 00:27:22.480
a little padawat and so Han,
Solo and Chewbacca aren't even in it.

300
00:27:22.599 --> 00:27:27.759
They're not referenced. It is Luke
and Lea crashed on a planet and they're

301
00:27:27.799 --> 00:27:33.480
just having adventures. Cute. Do
just Lea get a piece of the big

302
00:27:33.519 --> 00:27:37.759
guy Kiber crystal too. You're gonna
hate Leah and splinter of the Mind's Eye

303
00:27:37.759 --> 00:27:41.559
and the event that you read it, because she's a real damsel in distress.

304
00:27:41.440 --> 00:27:48.799
That sounds there's I have a literal
framed art. I don't know if

305
00:27:48.799 --> 00:27:52.839
I've told you about this that is
like a picture of Leah flicking you off

306
00:27:52.839 --> 00:28:00.000
that says resist and I need you
to know that about me. Thank you.

307
00:28:00.519 --> 00:28:04.880
As response to that, so I
think Lucas has had a complicated relationship

308
00:28:04.920 --> 00:28:11.359
with Empire strikes Back. Also,
this is his last collaboration with Gary Kurtz,

309
00:28:11.400 --> 00:28:15.960
who is a producer, that it
goes back to him on at least

310
00:28:17.000 --> 00:28:22.160
American Graffiti, important collaborator, and
this is where Lucas starts aggregating his control

311
00:28:23.680 --> 00:28:27.119
post Empire strikes Back. That's why
he's more hands on a Return of the

312
00:28:27.200 --> 00:28:32.920
Jedi. That's why a Return of
the Jedi is a course correction because he

313
00:28:32.920 --> 00:28:36.640
didn't like Empire. He didn't like
he didn't like it. It wasn't what

314
00:28:36.759 --> 00:28:41.000
he wanted. And also critical reception
at the time was kind of yeah,

315
00:28:41.039 --> 00:28:47.119
and it's only through time that people
were able to appreciate it. And so

316
00:28:47.559 --> 00:28:52.640
then now that people have been like
because this is now February ninety seven when

317
00:28:52.640 --> 00:28:59.880
special Edition gets released, and now
it comes from the mind of George Lucas.

318
00:29:00.440 --> 00:29:06.559
He was Vader's father the entire time. He planned it as oh right.

319
00:29:10.799 --> 00:29:18.240
One of the changes is that the
Emperor is replaced by a McDermott,

320
00:29:18.279 --> 00:29:22.880
as opposed before when it was played
by a woman with chimpanzee eyes, which

321
00:29:22.920 --> 00:29:29.400
would be fine. Actually it's fine, like aligning it with I mean m

322
00:29:29.559 --> 00:29:34.079
this plan and uh return of the
Jedi. So uh, that's a consistent

323
00:29:34.599 --> 00:29:38.160
change if you're going to do that, it's whatever. Uh they change the

324
00:29:38.240 --> 00:29:44.200
lines though, they change that.
And it's when Darth Vader is having a

325
00:29:44.240 --> 00:29:51.000
skype call with the Emperor for the
first time. Yeah, and he's just,

326
00:29:53.480 --> 00:29:56.200
Hi, can you hear can you? Can you hear me? Can

327
00:29:56.240 --> 00:30:02.240
you hear me? Ultimate? Well, I mean I run out of Wi

328
00:30:02.240 --> 00:30:14.759
Fi. The reception is clunky,
so uh, they they change it.

329
00:30:15.079 --> 00:30:18.720
And in the new one and they
basically he changes it too. And I

330
00:30:18.839 --> 00:30:23.480
actually want to point, I want
to actually say this out loud and get

331
00:30:23.519 --> 00:30:32.400
it right. Is that in the
original he's you know, basically calls uh,

332
00:30:33.400 --> 00:30:37.079
you know, Luke like he's like
their new enemy. Uh, and

333
00:30:37.200 --> 00:30:42.960
he and like he calls him Luke
Skywalker and Vader's like, you know,

334
00:30:44.000 --> 00:30:48.720
he's just a boy. But in
the updated version, he says their new

335
00:30:48.799 --> 00:30:52.920
enemy is the young rebel who destroyed
the Death Star. I have no doubt

336
00:30:52.039 --> 00:30:57.920
this boy is the offspring of Anakin
Skywalker in Vader responds, how is that

337
00:30:59.039 --> 00:31:02.519
possible? But like, I know, I'm sounding like one of those people

338
00:31:02.640 --> 00:31:06.440
is just like Memra. But it's
like, it's just just so. It

339
00:31:06.559 --> 00:31:10.680
just feels like that's an example to
me of this is not a helpful change

340
00:31:10.720 --> 00:31:17.119
that clarifies anything at all. It
just feels like an ego move. It

341
00:31:17.160 --> 00:31:23.319
feels like it feels like George Lucas
saying, look, I've been the genius

342
00:31:23.359 --> 00:31:32.119
all along. But it makes other
things that Vader does seem weird and out

343
00:31:32.119 --> 00:31:34.920
of place. He refers to him
specifically as Skywalker. He knows is Skywalker.

344
00:31:34.960 --> 00:31:40.039
He's like, my name is Skywalker, and he's like, it's this.

345
00:31:38.960 --> 00:31:45.400
This guy also is Skywalker, who's
nineteen years old. We understand that

346
00:31:45.440 --> 00:31:51.799
the action happened off screen. Yes, we understand this. We understand that

347
00:31:51.839 --> 00:31:56.200
he now knows. And you have
to do mental gymnastics to make sense of

348
00:31:56.240 --> 00:32:00.079
that change. You have to be
like, well, Vader was like play

349
00:32:00.119 --> 00:32:04.359
and twelve dimensional chairs and ship,
and you're just like and it's just like,

350
00:32:04.480 --> 00:32:08.359
no, why what are you doing
except serving the interests of one self

351
00:32:08.400 --> 00:32:14.960
obsessed mono, myth obsessed man,
who, to be fair, did give

352
00:32:15.000 --> 00:32:22.519
away all of his money from the
Disney acquisition to affordable housing two in fighting

353
00:32:22.640 --> 00:32:29.119
some Nimbi people who are like,
don't build affordable housing in my area.

354
00:32:29.680 --> 00:32:32.720
God damn it, Kenny, if
you make me think complexly about human beings

355
00:32:32.799 --> 00:32:40.200
one more time, say this man
is uh, he's a villain. He

356
00:32:40.240 --> 00:32:45.960
cannot he cannot be good, he
cannot tea, he cannot have nu once

357
00:32:46.079 --> 00:32:52.039
and be a human being. That's
really nice to know, though, y'all,

358
00:32:53.319 --> 00:33:00.960
Yes, that's nice, and so
I don't think I think Kershner understands

359
00:33:00.000 --> 00:33:06.720
that this is a product, even
though this is the highlight of his film

360
00:33:07.039 --> 00:33:13.920
career. Though. I haven't seen
the Eyes of Laura Marsh or RoboCop two,

361
00:33:13.960 --> 00:33:17.559
but I have seen never saying never
again. RoboCop two is his favorite

362
00:33:17.599 --> 00:33:22.480
film he's ever made. He just
told me. I didn't tell He told

363
00:33:22.519 --> 00:33:25.039
me. I know. He told
me that. Yeah, and you haven't

364
00:33:25.039 --> 00:33:30.000
seen it. I have not.
Unfortunately, I'm so sorry he's seen his

365
00:33:30.160 --> 00:33:34.599
favorite Oh my god, my god. Wow, Jesus Christ. Kind a

366
00:33:34.599 --> 00:33:39.839
film student? Are you? I
know? I'm so sorry you went to

367
00:33:39.839 --> 00:33:44.000
school for film, Kenny. I
did I have a degree. I have

368
00:33:44.039 --> 00:33:52.400
a degree in sitting somewhere, so
sure speak speaking of degrees in social work

369
00:33:52.400 --> 00:33:57.720
and academic work. A private little
war of very interesting episode of Star Trek.

370
00:33:57.880 --> 00:34:01.599
I also have a degree in International
relations. Ooh so maybe ooh,

371
00:34:01.759 --> 00:34:08.719
and that's mandergrad degree. Ah,
private little War. Perhaps you can shed

372
00:34:08.719 --> 00:34:14.400
a little bit more light on a
private little war. The introduction of doctor

373
00:34:14.519 --> 00:34:17.880
Mabanga. Oh, that was the
best part. And also I guess an

374
00:34:17.920 --> 00:34:22.079
analogy for the Vietnam War, and
at least according to these of the Voyage

375
00:34:22.079 --> 00:34:27.079
of season two, the first piece
of popular entertainment on television that was able

376
00:34:27.119 --> 00:34:34.199
to nakedly tackle the Vietnam War nakedly
because everyone apparently was kind of centrist about

377
00:34:34.199 --> 00:34:38.639
it at the time. That's funny
because this episode comes off as very centrist

378
00:34:38.639 --> 00:34:44.079
to me. In fact, it
comes off as incredibly pro United States and

379
00:34:44.159 --> 00:34:50.719
pro proxy war and pro arming native
people's. Actually it's entirely jingoistic. It's

380
00:34:50.800 --> 00:34:54.719
so fucking gingerous. Look at those
backpadding liberals. Wow. Sorry, yeah,

381
00:34:54.719 --> 00:35:00.000
it's not interested at all. It's
oh boy oh o my own,

382
00:35:00.199 --> 00:35:05.559
which means that it sacrifices everything that
Star Trek stands for. But this is

383
00:35:05.599 --> 00:35:13.039
also okay, so sorry, this
this script commission. This is a Roddenberry

384
00:35:13.199 --> 00:35:20.920
idea. Then it was given to
writer Don Ingles, who had previously written

385
00:35:20.920 --> 00:35:28.440
The Alternative Factor. It's an episode
that exists. It was gutted. I

386
00:35:28.519 --> 00:35:34.320
forgot what happened at this point.
There's oh what a Lazarus. That's right,

387
00:35:34.480 --> 00:35:38.000
but there's so many, so much
media that we consume. That's correct.

388
00:35:38.159 --> 00:35:40.960
Sorry, I'm not about to have
another crisis about it, Okay,

389
00:35:42.159 --> 00:35:54.920
go on. Basically, this is
an idea from Roddenberry rod himself. I'll

390
00:35:54.920 --> 00:36:00.559
read you this, thank you.
I'll read you this from jine Kun that

391
00:36:00.599 --> 00:36:02.760
I have famously gone to the map
for. Because this is an involved script

392
00:36:02.800 --> 00:36:12.840
from all hands on deck and then
eventually gets written by Roddenberry from Gene coun

393
00:36:14.000 --> 00:36:19.719
showrunner at this time. Captain Kirk
and his men in this particular show episode

394
00:36:20.239 --> 00:36:23.360
are put rather in the situation the
current day CIA, which has secret instructions

395
00:36:23.360 --> 00:36:28.119
to go in and overthrow a government. This is not necessarily a moral or

396
00:36:28.159 --> 00:36:32.480
a decent thing to do, but
grab on to something asmen, it is

397
00:36:32.559 --> 00:36:46.000
something that must be done. I
also think that it is I love that

398
00:36:46.079 --> 00:36:52.960
quote a because it pokes holes into
Star Trek is a great liberal fantasy.

399
00:36:54.039 --> 00:36:58.599
Now man, this is liberalism at
the time. I mean it's a little

400
00:36:58.599 --> 00:37:01.119
bit of liberalism now, yeah,
I mean it is. It fucking is,

401
00:37:01.559 --> 00:37:07.280
like you hear that same exact word
usage. You see this from the

402
00:37:07.280 --> 00:37:15.239
president right now in regards to the
freaking is the genoside the genocide? I

403
00:37:15.239 --> 00:37:21.199
mean, yes, and you it's
these are necessary evils. War is not

404
00:37:21.320 --> 00:37:27.639
fair? Uh, where we are
still living in a world of the desired

405
00:37:27.719 --> 00:37:31.880
black and white of World War two
in which we are the moral victors and

406
00:37:31.920 --> 00:37:37.039
we are not. We are not. I think that is also an important

407
00:37:37.079 --> 00:37:42.719
context at this time, even though
we are post Korean War, another debacle

408
00:37:42.840 --> 00:37:46.719
that ended in kind of a shrug. Yeah, though to be fair,

409
00:37:47.079 --> 00:37:52.559
I did not do my research in
terms of the paths of the Korean War

410
00:37:52.599 --> 00:37:55.599
and the Vietnam War, what the
perceptions are at the time. I only

411
00:37:55.599 --> 00:37:59.119
did my research on Star Trek and
Star Wars and what I know from pop

412
00:37:59.119 --> 00:38:05.440
culture. So what is so fascinating
is just letting me into the mindset of

413
00:38:05.480 --> 00:38:13.440
these I am assuming quite radical for
the system liberals, or at least Hollywood

414
00:38:13.440 --> 00:38:22.280
liberals, and they're still just like
Vietnam complicated. What you're gonna do?

415
00:38:22.079 --> 00:38:30.639
Yeah, it's complicated. I make
posts on Instagram about it. I mean

416
00:38:30.039 --> 00:38:36.880
the mindset obviously, if you were
to put your if you were to put

417
00:38:36.920 --> 00:38:40.679
your head into it and be like, oh, kid, OK, we're

418
00:38:40.760 --> 00:38:46.320
just coming out of We're still in
the Vietnam War. We're coming out of

419
00:38:46.760 --> 00:38:53.840
height of McCarthyism from the fifties in
which many celebrities were implicated as communists.

420
00:38:54.119 --> 00:38:57.400
I mean, no one, I
don't think is really like stating they're like

421
00:38:57.519 --> 00:39:00.159
kind of pro North Vietnam at that
point, or kind of like the pro

422
00:39:00.199 --> 00:39:06.559
communist forces. But it is not
popular by any means to be like,

423
00:39:06.760 --> 00:39:09.840
well, like, let's it'll just
be fine. What is, of course

424
00:39:09.960 --> 00:39:15.159
unpopular, is this ongoing conflict that's
continuing to kill people and for what really

425
00:39:15.199 --> 00:39:17.760
truly for what. But no one's
gonna go out there and be like,

426
00:39:17.920 --> 00:39:22.480
I mean, communism's fine, still
going to treat because we're in the midst

427
00:39:22.480 --> 00:39:28.159
of a Cold War with the USSR
as being this power that we are terrified

428
00:39:28.199 --> 00:39:32.199
that could you know, come and
overpower us and become the world power.

429
00:39:34.440 --> 00:39:37.639
Still kind of sitting there over everyone's
head anyway. That's I don't know if

430
00:39:37.679 --> 00:39:42.960
that's reductive, but it's also interesting
just because we have the perspective of history

431
00:39:43.280 --> 00:39:47.440
and it seems like, at least
accepted history that Vietnam was just bad,

432
00:39:47.960 --> 00:39:52.639
right, shouldn't have been done,
and these folks were living in the middle

433
00:39:52.679 --> 00:39:57.280
of it and right again, at
least according to the book, which this

434
00:39:57.400 --> 00:40:00.039
seems like a radical statement from Mark
Cushman to be like, this is the

435
00:40:00.159 --> 00:40:07.440
first episode of TV to tackle the
Vietnam War. But also what is interesting

436
00:40:07.480 --> 00:40:12.679
about Cushman's analysis and here is that
he is very quick to be like,

437
00:40:13.239 --> 00:40:15.840
oh, yeah, no, this
was a lie, this is a story.

438
00:40:15.400 --> 00:40:20.719
I can't necessarily trust this. And
so with that kind of commentary on

439
00:40:20.840 --> 00:40:24.440
here of being like, this is
the first episode for me, holds a

440
00:40:24.480 --> 00:40:30.159
little bit more weight. So perhaps
it truly is, if not the first

441
00:40:30.159 --> 00:40:37.239
episode of TV, which I find
extremely difficult to believe. Yeah, at

442
00:40:37.320 --> 00:40:42.519
least this is I don't know,
a little bit more naked. I mean,

443
00:40:42.599 --> 00:40:45.079
it puts it in we're speaking of
stating things in explicit terms, and

444
00:40:45.159 --> 00:40:54.760
this thing literally states the twentieth century
brush wars in Asia. Yep. And

445
00:40:55.159 --> 00:40:59.599
yeah, it is literally calling back
to and saying it to me. That's

446
00:40:59.639 --> 00:41:01.199
why also was like, well,
this isn't just Vietnam, this is also

447
00:41:01.360 --> 00:41:07.239
Afghanistan. This is any proxy war
that was fought instead of between the United

448
00:41:07.239 --> 00:41:13.559
States and the USSR. Explicitly like, that's what it is. So it's

449
00:41:13.679 --> 00:41:21.800
very interesting that it's delving into Vietnam, supposedly allegedly from such a Europe from

450
00:41:21.800 --> 00:41:29.719
a US. It is it's literally
saying the rush Wars in the twentieth century

451
00:41:30.119 --> 00:41:34.800
and the unfortunate truth that they just
had to go on. This is epplicit.

452
00:41:35.000 --> 00:41:39.119
It's explicit. It's explicit text.
And if wil Makers Roddenberry the great

453
00:41:39.159 --> 00:41:44.760
bird of the Galaxy at this time
is just like Vietnam has to happen this

454
00:41:44.800 --> 00:41:49.280
way because what else is there The
centre is you can see the US as

455
00:41:49.280 --> 00:41:52.840
an imperialist power, yes, and
the US must be an imperialist power and

456
00:41:52.880 --> 00:41:55.360
we must do what we have to
do. That's what I think is very

457
00:41:55.360 --> 00:42:04.119
interesting because to me, we've talked
about this. Star Wars is Star Wars.

458
00:42:04.159 --> 00:42:08.320
Oh yeah, oh my gosh,
George, George, where'd you come

459
00:42:08.320 --> 00:42:12.559
from? Man? I don't want
to say you didn't knock? Have you

460
00:42:12.599 --> 00:42:15.159
just been there the whole time?
I don't want to say, oh you

461
00:42:15.199 --> 00:42:22.719
don't too shy, Oh you shy
baby? Oh yeah? It was okay,

462
00:42:22.000 --> 00:42:29.679
Yeah he got a medal. Good
for him. Everyone cared. Yeah,

463
00:42:30.880 --> 00:42:35.360
okay, under the bed behind the
curtain, don't call look for me.

464
00:42:36.000 --> 00:42:40.199
We can still see your feet,
okay, ah yeah, soo war

465
00:42:42.199 --> 00:42:46.320
uh he. Of course, explicitly, the rebels are like the Vietcong like

466
00:42:46.440 --> 00:42:51.800
they they are the ones who have
the least power fighting and they're fighting against

467
00:42:51.800 --> 00:42:54.440
the imperialist power. So that is
of course the Star Wars side, the

468
00:42:54.440 --> 00:43:00.960
Star Trek side. And this this, this instance is the Federation. Kirk

469
00:43:01.199 --> 00:43:07.119
and Spock and the Enterprise are the
US. They are like, they are

470
00:43:07.559 --> 00:43:16.119
the US imperialistic power basically, and
they are saying that these people that have

471
00:43:16.440 --> 00:43:21.440
Okay, so the baddies, the
Klingons who are the USSR have come in

472
00:43:21.519 --> 00:43:23.679
and they're supposed to be at a
certain level, but they have armed them.

473
00:43:23.960 --> 00:43:31.320
So wow, these poor noble savages
that we are just like, we've

474
00:43:31.360 --> 00:43:37.519
got the good ones and they've got
the bad ones, and what can we

475
00:43:37.559 --> 00:43:43.079
do except give them some weapons too, because you know, it's for their

476
00:43:43.119 --> 00:43:45.639
own good, not for our purposes, but it is, it's for your

477
00:43:45.760 --> 00:43:51.800
fucking purposes. But they play it
off as if it is to empower them

478
00:43:51.840 --> 00:43:53.840
and that there is an exclusive baddies
side. But to me it just comes

479
00:43:53.840 --> 00:44:00.199
off as being so nefarious. And
we have of course years and years and

480
00:44:00.280 --> 00:44:02.079
years of history, and we have
reflection on the structure of that and what

481
00:44:02.119 --> 00:44:06.480
it meant. I'm sure at the
time it did feel like, oh wow,

482
00:44:06.559 --> 00:44:08.199
look at this. Wow, Oh
my god, we're so good like

483
00:44:08.320 --> 00:44:10.679
at us. I mean, sometimes
things are just hard and we have to

484
00:44:10.719 --> 00:44:15.599
do the hard things. So I
mean, I think this the joys of

485
00:44:15.679 --> 00:44:20.639
doing this project. The way that
we've been doing this project is just constantly

486
00:44:20.639 --> 00:44:27.480
calling the Great Man narrative into question
and just showing these things as what they

487
00:44:27.480 --> 00:44:32.000
are, which is products of the
time and products of human beings that are

488
00:44:32.039 --> 00:44:38.159
not right. It is so easy
for us to look at art and go

489
00:44:38.840 --> 00:44:42.519
even if we are not cognizant of
it, we just look at it and

490
00:44:42.559 --> 00:44:46.920
it goes truth. This is truth, right, This is a higher ideal

491
00:44:47.559 --> 00:44:52.159
because it's on a TV, and
we ascribe TV or the movie screen as

492
00:44:52.519 --> 00:44:57.880
power, and so we think that
there is just some higher ideal that they

493
00:44:57.920 --> 00:45:00.719
are tapped into, some spirituals that
they're at tapped into, as opposed to

494
00:45:00.760 --> 00:45:08.159
what this is, which is such
a flawed product and just people with opinions

495
00:45:08.159 --> 00:45:14.360
and ideas and products at the time
extremely well intentioned. That is also inherently

496
00:45:15.079 --> 00:45:20.840
boneheaded. It is boneheaded. That's
the way to put it, uh right,

497
00:45:21.559 --> 00:45:24.119
Yeah, starting in the quote,
and then not only that, but

498
00:45:24.239 --> 00:45:30.280
just other behind the scenes details.
We've got Nonah in brown face. We've

499
00:45:30.280 --> 00:45:35.679
got the Klingons back in brown face, back in brown face. We have

500
00:45:35.800 --> 00:45:42.199
the well intentioned these these beautiful natives, which goes who are blonde, by

501
00:45:42.239 --> 00:45:46.679
the way, blond and beautiful and
versus the dark ones and the badgies who

502
00:45:46.679 --> 00:45:54.840
are darker haired and more mean.
I do I do like, and I

503
00:45:54.840 --> 00:45:58.559
hope that they do this in Strange
New World season three. I do like

504
00:45:58.719 --> 00:46:01.679
whenever aliens are just big wigs.
Oh, I do like that. Now.

505
00:46:05.199 --> 00:46:08.280
I really like that. It's like
real party city wigs right there.

506
00:46:08.360 --> 00:46:14.199
This week the costume budget is just
wigs. It's just a bunch of wigs.

507
00:46:14.199 --> 00:46:15.199
It's like a whole bunch of wigs
put on top of each other.

508
00:46:16.840 --> 00:46:21.880
It's it's pretty wild. Yeah,
And I mean, and that's not even

509
00:46:22.000 --> 00:46:25.960
getting at the Nona piece. Okay, So in my brief research, because

510
00:46:25.960 --> 00:46:31.840
I read no biographies about gene Rodd
and Berry, but I uh looked on

511
00:46:31.840 --> 00:46:38.840
Wikipedia and Genie Rod. Genie Rod. That's what I like to call him.

512
00:46:39.239 --> 00:46:43.199
Yeah, he loves that. I
don't have a specific date, but

513
00:46:44.079 --> 00:46:49.760
divorce from his first wife, Eileen, was in nineteen sixty eight, the

514
00:46:50.440 --> 00:46:55.679
date that this episode. Yeah,
isn't having an affairs, multiple affairs,

515
00:46:55.760 --> 00:47:02.239
multiple affairs, And there are stories
that I've read and Deez are the boydgeous

516
00:47:02.239 --> 00:47:08.559
season two, I believe where Eileen. One of the things that I think

517
00:47:08.639 --> 00:47:13.039
Gene Couon and Geen Roddenberry budged on
is effect that their wives hated him.

518
00:47:13.679 --> 00:47:16.639
I think for Gene Couon it was
because he was a workaholic, and for

519
00:47:16.760 --> 00:47:23.840
Gene Roddenberry it's because it was a
duke. He was a philanderer, a

520
00:47:23.880 --> 00:47:32.760
philanderer who had lots of affairs and
just I I'm sure that his wife knew,

521
00:47:34.119 --> 00:47:38.960
but at some point just couldn't take
it anymore. Christ Anyways, Yeah,

522
00:47:39.000 --> 00:47:45.159
they're just people. They're just people, and so I imagine. Well,

523
00:47:45.199 --> 00:47:55.199
also there was the Lady Macbeth of
it all, which was a da

524
00:47:55.440 --> 00:48:01.199
bath gene coun idea which we see
that she is an incipient Lady Macbeth.

525
00:48:02.119 --> 00:48:07.039
Uh we decided could leave a man
confusance, disoriented as well as abmissive,

526
00:48:07.119 --> 00:48:09.920
and one of the next drafts,
So that was the thing that developed over

527
00:48:09.960 --> 00:48:14.519
time. But anyways, I'm sure
that there was a lot of divorce literature

528
00:48:14.559 --> 00:48:17.760
that was getting on the page just
to ascribe some things. And you're talking

529
00:48:17.760 --> 00:48:23.480
about Nonah here, talking about Nonah
who basically the way that this episode frames

530
00:48:23.519 --> 00:48:30.760
it caused Vietnam. Well, so
I okay, I was curious because I

531
00:48:30.760 --> 00:48:34.920
would. I was like, ah, when I need a brush up on

532
00:48:35.000 --> 00:48:43.280
that history as in like, of
course, the Klingons are supplying arms to

533
00:48:43.400 --> 00:48:47.639
one group, one like indigenous group. Yes, the black Hairs, the

534
00:48:47.679 --> 00:48:52.760
black Hairs, the blonde Hairs that
Kirk thinks are goodies because he knows them

535
00:48:52.760 --> 00:48:58.719
personally. They don't have that level
of weaponry, so they're going to be

536
00:48:59.119 --> 00:49:04.719
killed. Sley Nonah, who is
not part of either of these groups but

537
00:49:04.840 --> 00:49:08.159
is married into them. She's married
the leader, which is his buddy,

538
00:49:08.639 --> 00:49:15.519
presumably through which magic and also because
she's hot. But she wants she doesn't

539
00:49:15.519 --> 00:49:20.360
want just that level of arms.
She wants this higher level of arms because

540
00:49:20.360 --> 00:49:27.199
she saw the Phasers and she wants
those so that they cannot die. So

541
00:49:27.360 --> 00:49:30.599
I guess by what you are saying, can you just explain more of like

542
00:49:30.679 --> 00:49:34.960
she's the reason, oh, because
like in what happens afterward, which is

543
00:49:35.039 --> 00:49:37.840
like in her depiction in the episode. Let's think about the depiction of the

544
00:49:37.880 --> 00:49:42.159
Klingons, which make no mistake,
they're bad eats, they're the uss are

545
00:49:42.360 --> 00:49:47.880
in China and also in the episode
are clean on quite calmly explains what the

546
00:49:47.880 --> 00:49:53.880
Flintlock does yep, as opposed to
Nonah, who is duplicitous and is navigating

547
00:49:54.039 --> 00:50:02.440
and is conniving and scheming and even
though Tyree is married to her at the

548
00:50:02.440 --> 00:50:07.280
same time, it's just like it's
a living and Kirk was like, uh,

549
00:50:07.760 --> 00:50:12.320
it's a living in regards to Nona, and just like, man,

550
00:50:12.480 --> 00:50:15.159
this will be better if this woman
wasn't here, right, even though Kirk

551
00:50:15.199 --> 00:50:20.320
at the end of it is just
like Scottie, you beamed down one hundred

552
00:50:20.360 --> 00:50:24.519
serpents. So yes, so I
think what I see what she was saying

553
00:50:24.639 --> 00:50:30.519
is like, this is a way
for us to absolve ourselves of being of

554
00:50:30.599 --> 00:50:35.360
being this arms suppliers. It's like
we're still supplying the arms, but it's

555
00:50:35.440 --> 00:50:44.480
because she's the instigator. She's made
it worse, even though basically we're building

556
00:50:44.480 --> 00:50:47.400
to that point anyway, and Kirk
was struggling because he's like, well,

557
00:50:47.679 --> 00:50:52.960
they've now been given this artificial benefit, so while we have to do it

558
00:50:52.960 --> 00:51:00.920
too, and now it's it just
topples over because the fem fatale witchy bitch

559
00:51:00.719 --> 00:51:06.079
literally tried to which you like a
witch bitch. I fucking love a witch

560
00:51:06.119 --> 00:51:08.280
bitch. And I gotta tell you
I loved this witch bitch, loved her.

561
00:51:08.920 --> 00:51:14.239
She was a weirdo. When she
healed him from the Magatu poison.

562
00:51:14.400 --> 00:51:17.679
It was sex. I was like, what is she doing? I love

563
00:51:17.920 --> 00:51:22.000
this? It's great, I mean, and there is too then this is

564
00:51:22.039 --> 00:51:24.119
what I meant by like that noble
savage thing too, right, because it's

565
00:51:24.159 --> 00:51:29.760
like, here is a person who
is like of this earth using plants,

566
00:51:29.880 --> 00:51:36.480
and uh oh, there's two different
things going on here. There is the

567
00:51:36.519 --> 00:51:43.039
proxy war Vietnam, two superpowers fighting
this proxy war, right, and then

568
00:51:43.079 --> 00:51:51.440
there is the representation of the fem
fatale, but specifically the witch, the

569
00:51:51.480 --> 00:51:57.480
witch archetype and witches are often women
who are often very tied into nature.

570
00:51:58.400 --> 00:52:06.880
They're able to find and medicines and
salves through plants, and a lot of

571
00:52:06.920 --> 00:52:14.360
the history of witches is that women
were traditionally healers. Uh but because they

572
00:52:14.480 --> 00:52:17.159
were the ones who were successful,
and especially as certain like like different kinds

573
00:52:17.159 --> 00:52:22.679
of medicine advanced, we need to
make sure we need to find ways to

574
00:52:22.760 --> 00:52:27.480
push women down so and to push
them out of these spaces, So medicine,

575
00:52:27.480 --> 00:52:30.840
spaces, midwiffery, all of these
different elements. It was it was

576
00:52:30.880 --> 00:52:37.719
midwives who were actually washing hands and
delivering healthy babies because they actually had techniques

577
00:52:37.760 --> 00:52:43.559
that they had developed that then when
they're pushed out and pushed away, there

578
00:52:43.559 --> 00:52:46.920
would be infections when women would when
people would give birth, right because that

579
00:52:47.159 --> 00:52:53.320
same type of understanding was not adopted
by say, like the male doctors anyway.

580
00:52:53.599 --> 00:52:57.119
All of this is like the history
of it, right, It's where

581
00:52:57.119 --> 00:53:00.800
ale wives come from. I've probably
told talked about that before that women used

582
00:53:00.840 --> 00:53:02.719
to make beer and that's where they
would have cats, and they would usually

583
00:53:02.760 --> 00:53:07.239
put up a broom over their ale
wifer replate, oh wife's places, to

584
00:53:07.239 --> 00:53:13.159
say we make beer here, and
the cats would chase away the rats and

585
00:53:13.199 --> 00:53:15.880
the mice that they didn't get into
the grains. Anyway, all of this

586
00:53:15.920 --> 00:53:23.679
is all thank you. So this
is why I love a witch bitch,

587
00:53:23.760 --> 00:53:28.559
right because traditionally that is what it
is. Right, it's women occupying these

588
00:53:28.559 --> 00:53:34.039
spaces and then being pushed out pretty
traditionally by the church then and men in

589
00:53:34.119 --> 00:53:38.599
power. And so when I see
a witch, especially one that is literally

590
00:53:38.800 --> 00:53:45.679
designed to be like tied to the
earth, presenting hypersexually, I see that

591
00:53:45.320 --> 00:53:52.480
archetype clearly and perfectly. So I
have a problem with then, you know,

592
00:53:52.599 --> 00:53:54.960
I mean this, But then this
is what happens, right, They

593
00:53:55.039 --> 00:54:00.199
are the other, They are the
baddie like they are the are the Lady

594
00:54:00.239 --> 00:54:06.639
Macbeth who gets us into this problem. So not only is this episode like

595
00:54:07.800 --> 00:54:13.880
well, this is a justification for
imperialism and proxy war. Also women are

596
00:54:13.880 --> 00:54:20.320
the problem. These witches are the
problem. So it's doing too annoying things.

597
00:54:20.519 --> 00:54:29.239
What could be what could be an
interrogation of US imperialist interventionalism using participating

598
00:54:29.480 --> 00:54:37.360
in what is clearly a proxy war, using folks that are I'm gonna I'm

599
00:54:37.360 --> 00:54:39.960
not gonna talk out of my butt
because I don't know the INCA Vietnam.

600
00:54:40.000 --> 00:54:45.079
All I know. All I know
is that was wrong, was a bad

601
00:54:45.199 --> 00:54:49.000
time, And all I want to
say is that we should have gotten out

602
00:54:49.280 --> 00:54:52.280
soon. Sure, we should have
been there in the first place. And

603
00:54:52.280 --> 00:55:00.679
also I don't know what would have
happened if freaking Soviet's just ran uh ram

604
00:55:00.679 --> 00:55:09.800
shod all over them? Is that
a word sounds ramshodo, a word ramshod.

605
00:55:10.920 --> 00:55:19.440
What if I meant a word run, rough shod, rampant, rampant

606
00:55:19.440 --> 00:55:25.920
and rough shod. Either way shouldn't
have been done. Military are bad.

607
00:55:25.960 --> 00:55:30.039
And it's easier for me to say
that because over here not student of history.

608
00:55:30.039 --> 00:55:34.199
What I am a student of is
figuring out where the heck the influences

609
00:55:34.199 --> 00:55:37.039
are of these episodes at the time, And all I know is that it's

610
00:55:37.639 --> 00:55:45.440
these filmmakers just trying to be run
a very fine line about saying that Vietnam

611
00:55:45.559 --> 00:55:50.039
is bad because they don't say that
they are actually like Vietnam necessary evil and

612
00:55:50.039 --> 00:55:55.320
then they make escape a woman yep. Yeah. And just again also my

613
00:55:55.599 --> 00:56:00.800
very restricted knowledge as well. I
mean, I know, at its core,

614
00:56:00.159 --> 00:56:07.360
Vietnam as part of these engagements that's
saying, trying to trying to prevent

615
00:56:07.760 --> 00:56:10.840
the domino effect of communism, like
that was the biggest That was why,

616
00:56:12.079 --> 00:56:15.360
right, and the fear being that, well, if we don't engage,

617
00:56:15.840 --> 00:56:21.360
then now communism is going to spread
through the region rampidly, and what can

618
00:56:21.440 --> 00:56:23.320
we do? We must do this
because we have to stop. And of

619
00:56:23.320 --> 00:56:29.079
course communism is just there's a lot
inside of it, of course stand in

620
00:56:29.159 --> 00:56:36.679
for we won't be the imperialist power
anymore, but empower struggle. So I

621
00:56:36.679 --> 00:56:42.039
imagine, and we agree horrific.
I imagine if you're coming out from that

622
00:56:42.079 --> 00:56:47.679
perspective of the time and your absolute
fear is like, it makes sense you'd

623
00:56:47.679 --> 00:56:51.800
have I hate it. It makes
sense that the perspective would be well,

624
00:56:51.880 --> 00:56:55.239
I mean, we know it's awful, but it isn't necessary evil. Given

625
00:56:55.559 --> 00:57:02.320
the implications are the fear, what
would be to happen. I'm just I'm

626
00:57:02.360 --> 00:57:05.559
surprised I came to I don't know. It's like I said at the top,

627
00:57:05.599 --> 00:57:08.960
though, I think in its desire
and effort to actually be so simplistic

628
00:57:09.039 --> 00:57:15.360
and so pro us, uh,
it sacrifices what is interesting about Star Trek,

629
00:57:16.440 --> 00:57:20.880
or what Star Trek tries to be, or maybe at its best,

630
00:57:20.960 --> 00:57:24.000
what Star Trek is speaking of what
Star Trek tries to be. And we'll

631
00:57:24.000 --> 00:57:30.119
do this before I get to my
thematic connections. Yes, speaking of what

632
00:57:30.159 --> 00:57:36.480
Star Trek tries to be. M
h A well intentioned, problematic show about

633
00:57:36.480 --> 00:57:42.440
backpading liberalism. Yes, Booker Bradshaw. You've heard of this name, correct,

634
00:57:42.960 --> 00:57:49.880
Booker Bradshaw. Why yes, Stephen
McKinley. Uh. In the feature

635
00:57:50.239 --> 00:57:53.760
Stephen McKinley Anderson Book A Bradshaw,
Book A Bradshaw. You might be more

636
00:57:53.760 --> 00:58:00.519
familiar with him as doctor Mbanga Dr
mcbank. Here I was completing when we

637
00:58:00.519 --> 00:58:04.880
could have been talking about doctor mcbank
Doctor Mbanga, I know it from Strange

638
00:58:04.880 --> 00:58:09.519
New Worlds and his introduction here.
Yeah. Actually when he popped on,

639
00:58:09.559 --> 00:58:15.800
I went wait as second yes,
which is why whenever they announced doctor Macbanka

640
00:58:16.400 --> 00:58:21.239
in Strange New Worlds, I was
like, huh, what how is this

641
00:58:21.320 --> 00:58:23.599
going to work? And then the
episode and then the show turned out to

642
00:58:23.599 --> 00:58:28.119
be the best Star Trek period,
and so it's like who cares? But

643
00:58:28.239 --> 00:58:30.559
here we meet doctor m Banka who
interned in the Vulcan Ward and is doing

644
00:58:30.599 --> 00:58:35.800
doctoring stuff on the ship, taking
care of Spock who's in a coma because

645
00:58:35.800 --> 00:58:38.840
he got shot by a footlock.
Uh, and allowing Chapel and Spock to

646
00:58:38.840 --> 00:58:43.880
get into some shenanigans, even to
the Chapel should theoretically be, you know,

647
00:58:44.639 --> 00:58:47.119
an intrie medical professional, but no, we introduced a second doctor,

648
00:58:49.079 --> 00:58:51.800
and so we meet doctor mcbanka part
of Star Trek Lawer. What do we

649
00:58:51.800 --> 00:58:57.119
think of doctor mcbanka, love him, love him? Wild that he actually

650
00:58:57.159 --> 00:59:01.920
understands vulcan physiology, and yet it's
always McCoy being like, I don't understand,

651
00:59:02.559 --> 00:59:07.760
I don't understand this. It livers
where his heart should be. Although

652
00:59:07.840 --> 00:59:13.239
Joel pointed out he's like McCoy clearly
does understand volcan physiology. He just complains

653
00:59:13.280 --> 00:59:22.679
all the time. Yeah, So, I mean it is not We should

654
00:59:22.679 --> 00:59:25.719
point out that it is a big
deal to have a black doctor in nineteen

655
00:59:25.760 --> 00:59:32.079
sixty eight with authority who knows what
he's doing and is an expert and is

656
00:59:32.519 --> 00:59:39.679
respected. That's a big deal.
Yeah. Book Bradshaw played doctor Mbanga is

657
00:59:39.679 --> 00:59:43.679
standing in from McCoy and Sick Bank. I'm reading from These Are the Voyages

658
00:59:43.719 --> 00:59:46.440
season two by Mark Cushman. Okay, Bradshaw is only twenty seven, but

659
00:59:46.519 --> 00:59:51.360
his scholarly demeanor made him a popular
choice when a black actor was needed to

660
00:59:51.360 --> 00:59:55.239
be a doctor. During the same
year, Bradshaw portrayed another doctor on Tarzan.

661
00:59:55.840 --> 01:00:00.159
He was in Banka here, Badulla
there. Okay. So it's like

662
01:00:00.440 --> 01:00:04.280
hang on a second, aspect,
hang on a second grab on to something,

663
01:00:04.440 --> 01:00:08.679
grab on to something now and now
no no doctor mc banka, Bradshaw

664
01:00:08.840 --> 01:00:14.400
Booker Bratshaw, our actor here remembered. I was hired by Gene Roddenberry for

665
01:00:14.440 --> 01:00:17.440
Star Trek because I was quote unquote
the most intelligent black actor in the country.

666
01:00:17.639 --> 01:00:22.559
Fuck me here we go, hold
on a second, grab onto things.

667
01:00:22.599 --> 01:00:24.400
They said, we want to represent
blacks as having a brain, so

668
01:00:24.440 --> 01:00:30.639
we'll wait, make him a doctor. Well intentioned, but parenthetical, But

669
01:00:30.000 --> 01:00:35.320
in parenthetical, I didn't want to
play a doctor. I come from a

670
01:00:35.360 --> 01:00:39.639
family of doctors, and that year
I played one in five TV shows,

671
01:00:39.880 --> 01:00:44.760
including Tarzan and The Girl from Uncle. If I had wanted to be a

672
01:00:44.880 --> 01:00:47.840
doctor, I would have gone to
medical school. Bratshaw again is doctor mcbanka

673
01:00:47.880 --> 01:00:52.440
returned to Star Trek for that which
survives? Fuck me reinforced it, are

674
01:00:52.519 --> 01:00:57.800
reinforced it, Kenny, Yeah,
fucking said the exact thing. Well,

675
01:00:57.840 --> 01:01:06.400
of course that it would be like
or you could have just put black folks

676
01:01:06.440 --> 01:01:09.440
like given black folks TV shows to
do right and have them be pat them

677
01:01:09.480 --> 01:01:14.360
in positions of power. But or
you know, the other that reminds me

678
01:01:14.440 --> 01:01:20.360
of is how like every therapist is
always a black woman. Now, every

679
01:01:20.400 --> 01:01:23.559
single therapist in a TV show or
a movie like not everyone, but it's

680
01:01:23.599 --> 01:01:30.239
so often, and so you end
up getting effectively black people in these positions

681
01:01:30.239 --> 01:01:34.159
of authority where they get to be
like magical Negroes and stuff, and like

682
01:01:34.920 --> 01:01:40.480
they are Morgan Freeman esque and that
they are very respectable and this this,

683
01:01:40.800 --> 01:01:46.239
like, and you can't help but
be a little put off by the implication,

684
01:01:46.440 --> 01:01:49.880
which is exactly what is there,
which is just like, well,

685
01:01:50.440 --> 01:01:52.280
you know, black people, so
we need to like show that like some

686
01:01:52.320 --> 01:01:55.360
of them, the good ones are
they can be smart, like wow,

687
01:01:55.360 --> 01:01:59.159
wow wow, whereas like, which
is wild to me? Right with the

688
01:01:59.159 --> 01:02:02.239
way, because if you on the
fucking starship, everyone there is smart,

689
01:02:04.519 --> 01:02:08.840
just put more black people on your
ship in the first place. Anyway,

690
01:02:08.880 --> 01:02:14.079
give a horror more to do,
have many people, like have people and

691
01:02:14.320 --> 01:02:17.039
done different planets, be black horror. Who knows just off the top of

692
01:02:17.079 --> 01:02:22.320
her head that it took Earth twelve
centuries to develop the flint lock. Pretty

693
01:02:22.320 --> 01:02:27.440
smart? Pretty yeah, he's smart. But also there's only so much.

694
01:02:28.760 --> 01:02:34.639
Again, it's about gestures, right, gestures. Jean roden Berry was in

695
01:02:34.679 --> 01:02:37.000
the right place at the right time
for a good idea in this In this

696
01:02:37.159 --> 01:02:44.599
same chapter, they do an interview
with assistant director Charles Washburn, who was

697
01:02:45.199 --> 01:02:49.920
the star Trek was the first series
to hire a black person to work as

698
01:02:49.960 --> 01:02:55.639
an assistant director in Hollywood. Yeah. In this interview In the same chapter,

699
01:02:55.800 --> 01:02:59.840
he says, Charles Washburn says,
I had interviewed to be an ad

700
01:03:00.639 --> 01:03:04.159
at an NBC affiliate because some production
friends told me they wanted to hire a

701
01:03:04.199 --> 01:03:07.000
black for the control room. But
they never called me back. Months later,

702
01:03:07.079 --> 01:03:09.320
I wrote to my friend asking who
got the job, and he said,

703
01:03:09.400 --> 01:03:13.840
Charlie, they didn't hire anyone.
They never intended to. They just

704
01:03:13.920 --> 01:03:16.280
wanted to be able to tell people
that they were looking for a editorial note

705
01:03:17.320 --> 01:03:24.840
black person. It's all about gestures, yeah, and you know yeah,

706
01:03:25.519 --> 01:03:30.559
And I guess also it is all
about gestures, and I guess. The

707
01:03:30.639 --> 01:03:37.079
question then becomes, it's a gesture, does it have an incremental effect positive

708
01:03:37.119 --> 01:03:44.239
effect? Like and I'm not excusing
empty gestures. It sounds like you're excusing

709
01:03:44.280 --> 01:03:52.880
it aspen oh by by, But
I am curious if there was kind of

710
01:03:52.880 --> 01:03:57.840
any lasting cultural like you know effects
where it's like, okay, while watching

711
01:03:58.039 --> 01:04:01.599
a private little war as being like
this episode is for folks like me,

712
01:04:02.519 --> 01:04:06.440
this is not for anyone else.
This is for white folks, right,

713
01:04:08.239 --> 01:04:11.960
Yeah, I guess I'm just thinking
from an industry perspective. I mean,

714
01:04:12.360 --> 01:04:14.559
I mean, we go back to
I don't know if we've ever even talked

715
01:04:14.559 --> 01:04:18.559
about this, but like that famous
story of Michelle Nichols wanting to quit Star

716
01:04:18.599 --> 01:04:25.480
Trek and Lucille Ball being like,
no, you got to stay, like

717
01:04:25.559 --> 01:04:30.239
it was very It wasn't me,
who was it. It was Martin Luther

718
01:04:30.320 --> 01:04:36.119
King. Oh my god. Fuck. I Also, I should have said

719
01:04:36.159 --> 01:04:43.400
homie before saying Martin Lua, we're
really going for it right now. Maybe

720
01:04:43.400 --> 01:04:45.320
I did know that, And I
just like, I'm just confusing it with

721
01:04:45.360 --> 01:04:49.039
the fact that Lucille Ball, of
course it was you know what, I'm

722
01:04:49.079 --> 01:04:55.039
confusing it with the intentions of Lucille
Ball and DESI to I need to have

723
01:04:55.119 --> 01:04:58.199
this wait. I think it's the
reasoning for them wanting Star Trek, and

724
01:04:58.239 --> 01:05:00.920
I'm sure that if I went back
to the use of the just season one,

725
01:05:01.199 --> 01:05:03.679
I have a more definitive thing.
But I think the reason that they

726
01:05:03.719 --> 01:05:08.920
wanted to have a science fiction TV
show on at the time one they were

727
01:05:08.920 --> 01:05:12.719
doing a favor to Herb Solow,
who's the executive that was attached to Star

728
01:05:12.760 --> 01:05:17.199
Trek. And two they probably wanted
a space show because Kennedy had started the

729
01:05:17.199 --> 01:05:21.159
Space Race and they just wanted to
be in vogue, and so Star Trek

730
01:05:21.440 --> 01:05:26.320
is the right place at the right
time. I don't think it was about

731
01:05:26.559 --> 01:05:31.199
trying to say a greater thesis like
so many things. It's just about we

732
01:05:31.280 --> 01:05:35.760
want to make money. So I'm
going to remove the white lady from the

733
01:05:35.840 --> 01:05:44.360
situation entirely. She's out. So
Martin Luther King saying to Michelle Nichols important

734
01:05:45.000 --> 01:05:49.719
important person, extremely important person.
If I could say, if I am

735
01:05:49.840 --> 01:05:55.519
to describe Martin Luther King, I
would say a great man. Oh yeah,

736
01:05:55.679 --> 01:06:00.840
can you quote him? My name
is Martin Luther King him. Yeah,

737
01:06:00.880 --> 01:06:05.840
that's a famous quote. Yeah yeah, I yeah. And he's the

738
01:06:05.840 --> 01:06:11.679
one that encouraged He's the one that
encouraged her to stay and she did well.

739
01:06:11.760 --> 01:06:18.239
I I would like to append this, okay, because there is a

740
01:06:18.280 --> 01:06:26.519
story that is told where there was
a young girl who was watching Star Trek

741
01:06:27.400 --> 01:06:31.239
and she sees a horror yeah,
and she runs to her parents and she

742
01:06:31.360 --> 01:06:36.320
goes, Mama, there's a black
lady on TV. And she ain't no

743
01:06:36.480 --> 01:06:41.840
maid. I believe that's a story
from Michelle Nichols. That woman, that

744
01:06:41.880 --> 01:06:45.280
little girl was Whoopy Goldberg, who
then went on to go be a cast

745
01:06:45.320 --> 01:06:50.800
member on Star Trek the Next Generation
Wow and won an Oscar during that time.

746
01:06:51.159 --> 01:06:58.239
So you're talking about that notion of
incremental progress, right, and it

747
01:06:58.360 --> 01:07:06.079
literally inspired an Oscar winning actor.
So because I think, fuck, I'm

748
01:07:06.079 --> 01:07:11.360
not I'm not a person of color. So I need to just say this

749
01:07:11.559 --> 01:07:14.480
that, like, I'm not speaking
from experience of a person of color,

750
01:07:15.159 --> 01:07:19.880
and people have various also, like
perspectives and experiences. So I just want

751
01:07:19.960 --> 01:07:26.440
to say I'm coming from yeah,
just to sort of preface it. But

752
01:07:27.280 --> 01:07:31.840
they're like it's now, it's not
enough, right, and also it's never

753
01:07:32.159 --> 01:07:38.440
enough, and things, these things
are they persist to this day, and

754
01:07:38.519 --> 01:07:44.159
it is like the types of ways
that people of color are treated still within

755
01:07:44.239 --> 01:07:49.199
the industry and in general are horrific
and still and it's and I think that

756
01:07:49.239 --> 01:07:51.280
we need to be careful about being
like, well, you know, it's

757
01:07:51.320 --> 01:07:55.920
inspires these you know, the good
ones are the special people, or these

758
01:07:56.000 --> 01:07:59.239
kinds of things. It's more it
has to be about that it is inspiring

759
01:07:59.360 --> 01:08:04.159
or that it is actually furthering the
world for all people of color, uh

760
01:08:04.199 --> 01:08:10.719
and everyone. So I'm a little
I'm a torn and I think, but

761
01:08:10.760 --> 01:08:15.559
I think I have to come down
on the side of like, it's something

762
01:08:15.119 --> 01:08:20.039
as let me put a button on
it. Sure, human beings, human

763
01:08:20.039 --> 01:08:28.520
beings cannot be perfect. We will
never be perfect. Okay, However,

764
01:08:30.000 --> 01:08:31.319
we can do the best that we
can with the information that we have at

765
01:08:31.319 --> 01:08:35.880
our fingertips and be well intentioned and
then be open to be wrong, right,

766
01:08:36.279 --> 01:08:44.680
being open to learning, be open
to driving ourselves to learn rather self

767
01:08:44.760 --> 01:08:50.319
learning not and just doing the best
that you can. Yeah, I do

768
01:08:50.479 --> 01:09:00.079
to say that. Yeahs trying.
Yeah, even though it was stupid and

769
01:09:00.159 --> 01:09:03.560
bone headed. We also have the
perspective of history. And then also they're

770
01:09:03.720 --> 01:09:09.960
existing within at this time, even
though how they would is quite liberal compared

771
01:09:10.000 --> 01:09:15.960
to the rest of the country.
M h. Still extremely if you have

772
01:09:15.000 --> 01:09:18.600
to deal with NBC, who is
constantly fighting with being like, let's never

773
01:09:18.640 --> 01:09:25.199
say anything radical because we don't want
to offend the Southern States. So I

774
01:09:25.199 --> 01:09:29.439
believe, as you said in last
week's episode of Broken Clock is right twice

775
01:09:29.479 --> 01:09:34.720
a day. Yeah, so too, can A so too? Can this

776
01:09:35.239 --> 01:09:45.119
challenging figure. M have a vision
of a future h and then galvanizes himself

777
01:09:45.119 --> 01:09:49.880
into the young great Man narrative.
But then this then goes then bolish to

778
01:09:49.880 --> 01:09:53.560
purport a narrative of being like,
no, we'll get this figured out.

779
01:09:54.159 --> 01:10:00.680
We're humans, and then goes on
to make essentially human propaganda and as being

780
01:10:00.720 --> 01:10:04.800
like humans are great. What are
you talking about? Even though you do

781
01:10:04.920 --> 01:10:10.239
then have episodes like quote of Honor
and Star Trek the next generation. We'll

782
01:10:10.239 --> 01:10:14.520
get there. Yeah, extremely bone
headed, but no one can get it

783
01:10:14.600 --> 01:10:16.920
right all the time. And I
guess if we look at it with the

784
01:10:17.159 --> 01:10:23.119
charitable perspective like that, which is
to say, fifty something years later,

785
01:10:24.600 --> 01:10:28.640
we should be much better, like
and we have to be we have to

786
01:10:28.720 --> 01:10:31.359
keep being better. And if we
come at it with the and I guess

787
01:10:31.439 --> 01:10:33.520
I have to follow my own words. If we come at this with any

788
01:10:33.600 --> 01:10:36.800
kind of level of shame, shame
in and of itself is a tool of

789
01:10:36.840 --> 01:10:42.119
and I'll just put this with like
white supremacy. If we're like a mired

790
01:10:42.239 --> 01:10:46.279
in the shame of the thing of
not getting it perfect and not say saying,

791
01:10:46.399 --> 01:10:48.720
oh, you know what, I
messed up, Like, let's do

792
01:10:48.880 --> 01:10:54.399
better, Let's try to strive toward
this then we're just going to be stuck

793
01:10:54.439 --> 01:11:00.279
in a space where even the incrementalism
will save us. So my charitable perspective

794
01:11:00.399 --> 01:11:09.119
is that's that was an advancement and
we've come a long way and we've still

795
01:11:09.159 --> 01:11:12.640
got more to go. I'm speaking
of coming a long way. So that

796
01:11:13.239 --> 01:11:15.880
ways to go to a theme outic
connection. Then I believe that I touched

797
01:11:15.920 --> 01:11:21.199
upon briefly in her last Empire strikes
Back episode. Yeah, and it's interesting

798
01:11:21.760 --> 01:11:26.560
that it comes up again, that
it comes up again and with this episode,

799
01:11:26.720 --> 01:11:30.600
is that both of these pieces are
about proxy wars. Yeah, it

800
01:11:30.720 --> 01:11:35.199
was the last time with the Private
Little War obviously, as we've gone at

801
01:11:35.279 --> 01:11:44.319
length being about nakedly Vietnam, right
the battles in South Vietnam, and then

802
01:11:44.359 --> 01:11:50.920
Empire strikes Back. Luke Skywalker is
the proxy war. Also, Cloud City

803
01:11:51.000 --> 01:11:57.159
is taking a neutral power and taking
advantage of it. Yeah, you know,

804
01:11:57.560 --> 01:12:02.119
seemingly neutral power, but far more
automatically and emotionally, Luke Skywalker is

805
01:12:02.159 --> 01:12:09.640
the proxy war absolutely. Yeah.
Yeah, the Jedi realizing that Luke Skywalker

806
01:12:09.680 --> 01:12:12.680
is the only one because Darth Vader
is Anakart Skywalker, and so they have

807
01:12:12.720 --> 01:12:16.000
to go whole hog into Luke Skywalker, right, and being like, we

808
01:12:16.079 --> 01:12:19.319
have to train this kid because he's
the only one that can do this,

809
01:12:19.479 --> 01:12:25.159
because we have to appeal to Vader's
emotional side. Yeah, except there is

810
01:12:25.239 --> 01:12:34.479
another but which from that perspective just
tightens my grumpiness about everything I've always I've

811
01:12:34.479 --> 01:12:40.640
already said before at length, which
is my true frustration with the way that

812
01:12:40.760 --> 01:12:44.680
Yoda and Obi Wan treat him.
This is where we start seeing the cracks

813
01:12:44.720 --> 01:12:48.720
and who the Jedi are, which
we all we know my opinion on the

814
01:12:48.800 --> 01:12:55.239
Jedi. You love the Jedi famously, Yeah, sure, we do.

815
01:12:55.319 --> 01:12:59.880
They become everyone becomes a whole heart
of a lot more complex. Yeah right.

816
01:13:00.000 --> 01:13:06.319
The Jedi are speaking of boneheads,
real bone headed people. And to

817
01:13:06.399 --> 01:13:13.720
quote Ahsokatano, I am an a
Jedi, her famous catchphrase, her famous

818
01:13:13.760 --> 01:13:24.600
catchphrase, Jedi. Yes. Yeah. I find it to be very sad

819
01:13:24.760 --> 01:13:30.239
actually, from that perspective of like
Luke that it's one thing to do.

820
01:13:30.439 --> 01:13:32.680
They don't see him as a human
being, and he can't be a human

821
01:13:32.720 --> 01:13:38.039
being. He has to be a
symbol, which is horrifying, like horrifying.

822
01:13:39.920 --> 01:13:45.479
Imagine sorry, imagine like you're you're
a kid who's thrust into a war

823
01:13:46.359 --> 01:13:49.399
and sure you wanted the adventure of
it, but this is terrifying. Your

824
01:13:49.439 --> 01:13:55.880
friends are dying, things are scary, and you're being told your real human

825
01:13:55.880 --> 01:13:59.000
emotions are too much and are going
to cost us everything, and you're being

826
01:13:59.000 --> 01:14:02.000
told that your friends are worth sacrificing. And then everybody's mad at you because

827
01:14:02.000 --> 01:14:05.479
you're acting like a person because you're
not, and they don't want you to

828
01:14:05.520 --> 01:14:09.640
be a person. They want you
to be a symbol. Fuck that.

829
01:14:10.840 --> 01:14:18.600
Oh oh, you just shuddered like
you were genuinely sick, that you actually

830
01:14:18.640 --> 01:14:25.720
have chills, liutally upset. I
feel really upset. I'm sick. My

831
01:14:25.840 --> 01:14:35.199
illness is hating Jedi, hating the
types of values that are espoused by jedis,

832
01:14:35.239 --> 01:14:44.439
which is part of the reason they
got overthrown, persisting, persisting in

833
01:14:45.199 --> 01:14:53.199
their philosophy. Yeah, that's a
very very strong thematic connection, and there

834
01:14:53.239 --> 01:14:56.840
is that. It's just a horror
to watch the people in private little war.

835
01:14:57.199 --> 01:15:02.880
That's just like, well, here
they are, and we fucked them

836
01:15:02.920 --> 01:15:09.600
for our own game, and like
just these they don't get to be people,

837
01:15:09.680 --> 01:15:14.960
they get to be concepts. That's
cool, that is cool, that

838
01:15:15.039 --> 01:15:20.680
is cool. Aspen, Yeah,
what Aspen, what do you want asp

839
01:15:21.039 --> 01:15:29.000
What do you want from me?
Aspen k You need to get out of

840
01:15:29.439 --> 01:15:38.039
dowur town, can get into shipping
town. Mm hm A long time ago.

841
01:15:38.720 --> 01:15:43.600
Start dating this week. I quoted
a boat, I dated a game,

842
01:15:44.279 --> 01:15:51.039
but none of them could warp mine
drive into hyper space. The best

843
01:15:51.079 --> 01:16:00.319
of both worlds can meet in the
second place. Captain Slow on a polla

844
01:16:00.560 --> 01:16:08.399
kron I wanted a song, I
pen a song. Seventeen more minutes advise

845
01:16:08.600 --> 01:16:20.359
in Super High dev for the USS
Enterprise dt F. Don't you take my

846
01:16:20.720 --> 01:16:26.439
walk lighter and clip it? Don't
you take my red schord buddy and nip

847
01:16:26.520 --> 01:16:30.840
it. If you spill the tea, I'm gonna sip it. My starship

848
01:16:30.920 --> 01:16:40.039
it Hello, Hello, it's Tibers. Talk about starships. Explain it to

849
01:16:40.079 --> 01:16:43.159
people that are starting with this episode. What the heck eyed starship it is?

850
01:16:43.640 --> 01:16:47.439
Are gonna talk about starships, your
favorite starships and and your favorite romantic

851
01:16:47.479 --> 01:16:51.439
ships. Here we go. We
did it, We did it, We

852
01:16:51.479 --> 01:16:58.079
did it. Oh my god,
we did it. So we start with

853
01:16:58.119 --> 01:17:01.319
our favorite ship ships, our favorite
ships that fly through the sky. And

854
01:17:01.399 --> 01:17:05.279
I gotta say, Aspen, uh, the ships that are not on the

855
01:17:05.319 --> 01:17:13.199
board that you can say yes,
you cannot say the executor no favorite,

856
01:17:13.760 --> 01:17:17.239
and you cannot say the towntown okay, no tonsan no no startup story.

857
01:17:17.239 --> 01:17:21.800
It's so funny last that that last
episode. I also picked a giant star

858
01:17:21.880 --> 01:17:28.520
destoryer. I just really like big
ships. Okay, there's so many to

859
01:17:28.600 --> 01:17:33.439
choose from in an empire. Uh. And we've had this combo before and

860
01:17:33.520 --> 01:17:41.159
I think this time I'm gonna go
with a classic. And it is an

861
01:17:41.239 --> 01:17:47.439
at eight at eight Yes, otherwise
known as the ad at sure all terrain

862
01:17:47.880 --> 01:17:51.079
at eight eight. He's a good
little boy. You just want to scratch

863
01:17:51.119 --> 01:17:55.640
and behind the ears, yeah,
you just want to He looks eighty eighties

864
01:17:55.760 --> 01:18:00.560
look like uh little dog turtles.
Yep, big white dog turtles. Easily

865
01:18:00.680 --> 01:18:06.439
tripped. Yeah. I always am
curious about their design of why that might

866
01:18:06.479 --> 01:18:13.800
be beneficial as a vehicle, But
then I don't care because they're so cool.

867
01:18:14.159 --> 01:18:17.880
And look, if you're asking questions
about that, about why they had

868
01:18:17.960 --> 01:18:23.439
legs, I think you start asking
larger questions about the world. Also,

869
01:18:23.600 --> 01:18:28.159
you just have to look at current
military development and just be like, why

870
01:18:28.560 --> 01:18:32.800
are these things you can look at
The answer isn't because a designer wanted it.

871
01:18:33.439 --> 01:18:38.479
Yeah, some person wanted it to
be this way. That's cyber trucks,

872
01:18:38.479 --> 01:18:44.680
Tesla cyber trucks, except atats are
much better. Love them. Love

873
01:18:44.800 --> 01:18:49.079
that I remember playing. I remember
going to an arcade when I was younger,

874
01:18:49.520 --> 01:18:55.359
and what I know, I remember
those arcades putting quarters in the machines,

875
01:18:55.720 --> 01:19:00.880
putting quarters and the machines, And
I remember playing a Star Wars game

876
01:19:00.000 --> 01:19:03.840
where you're you could pick where you
were and I picked Haf and like like

877
01:19:03.960 --> 01:19:09.720
flying an X wing and trying to
shoot at AT eight's and it was terrified,

878
01:19:10.800 --> 01:19:13.479
like because it was one of those
like you know, enclosed ones and

879
01:19:13.520 --> 01:19:15.399
it's like a really big screen.
And I still do this where I just

880
01:19:15.479 --> 01:19:21.720
go ah the entire time. I'm
like, I don't know. I did

881
01:19:21.760 --> 01:19:28.640
not win, I died, but
they were scary and you're swooping around them.

882
01:19:29.279 --> 01:19:32.199
It's just really great. It's beautiful
stuff. Love an at eight excellent

883
01:19:34.000 --> 01:19:39.279
controversial choice. I'm gonna pick the
Millennium Falcon. Have we not done the

884
01:19:39.279 --> 01:19:43.960
Millennium Falcon? Nope? Okay,
yeah sure controversially at Brave for sure.

885
01:19:44.840 --> 01:19:47.439
I think the Millennium Falcon is cool. I like it because it's neat.

886
01:19:48.119 --> 01:19:51.359
What I like about it is that
it flips around a lot, and it's

887
01:19:51.479 --> 01:19:56.159
cool. It goes, you mean
to boot. I like the Millennium Falcon.

888
01:19:56.520 --> 01:20:00.399
It's like a space ship, and
I like it because it's it's cool.

889
01:20:00.119 --> 01:20:03.720
What I like about the Millennium Falcon
in my research is that I found

890
01:20:03.760 --> 01:20:06.680
out that it's cool and I like
to look at it. What I like

891
01:20:06.760 --> 01:20:11.199
about it is that it is neat
and if I have to dig into it,

892
01:20:11.720 --> 01:20:14.359
what I think is cool about it
is that I think it's rad.

893
01:20:15.560 --> 01:20:20.239
Oh man, do you think it's
cool? I do like it. I

894
01:20:20.319 --> 01:20:24.960
think it's neat. I think it
is very cool. What I especially like

895
01:20:25.000 --> 01:20:28.159
about it in Empire Strikes Back is
that it's broken all the time. Yeah.

896
01:20:29.479 --> 01:20:33.920
Yeah, I like that Chef's kiss
my guy. It it is good.

897
01:20:34.039 --> 01:20:39.640
And I like that R two D
two fixes the hyperdrive eventually. Do

898
01:20:39.760 --> 01:20:44.439
you know how not to talk about
strange computers? It's so funny? Yep?

899
01:20:44.720 --> 01:20:57.000
Well, good choice, Okay.
Romantic ships ramantic ships a reminder,

900
01:20:58.119 --> 01:21:02.680
ships that are romantic don't have to
be nice. People ship all kinds of

901
01:21:02.720 --> 01:21:06.399
stuff, so it can be a
little weird. I'm just throwing that out

902
01:21:06.439 --> 01:21:13.600
there. So I'm in a ship. No, no, Kirk. Oh

903
01:21:15.920 --> 01:21:21.239
it is Oh do I like that
that? No? Maybe we don't like

904
01:21:21.319 --> 01:21:25.119
it. Okay, nope, you
can ship think oh no, because it's

905
01:21:25.159 --> 01:21:29.560
like a that's like a non con
it gets the tag of non consensual non

906
01:21:29.720 --> 01:21:34.039
con No A Kirk. Yeah,
no, a Kirk. But you just

907
01:21:34.119 --> 01:21:39.640
went to the mat of being like
he doesn't have to That I got,

908
01:21:40.000 --> 01:21:42.640
And then I was like, wait
a second, do I actually support this?

909
01:21:43.119 --> 01:21:48.399
Yes? Sometimes sometimes because she does
scratch him with a leaf. I

910
01:21:48.439 --> 01:21:53.520
don't know, maybe she does that
with other guy, but she does kind

911
01:21:53.560 --> 01:21:59.159
of enchant him a bit. But
they do have one of those kisses.

912
01:21:59.279 --> 01:22:04.600
And I think about out kisses a
lot and movies and TV kissing where fan

913
01:22:05.840 --> 01:22:12.359
I'm a big fan, and I
think I miss kissing. The miss kissing.

914
01:22:12.880 --> 01:22:16.720
I miss the kind of kissing that
is like full body like I'm into

915
01:22:16.840 --> 01:22:21.199
this kiss kind of kissing. Uh. Someone once said, who's the actor?

916
01:22:23.359 --> 01:22:27.000
That's when you're gonna have to be
so much more specific. I can't.

917
01:22:27.640 --> 01:22:32.399
I can't supply what your guess is
right now. I Oh, my

918
01:22:32.520 --> 01:22:39.159
gosh, guy from New Girl,
Jack Johnson, Jake Johnson, Morris so

919
01:22:39.439 --> 01:22:44.279
Jack Jack Johnson, Jake Johnson,
Jake Johnson, Jack Johnson, the singer

920
01:22:44.399 --> 01:22:47.399
Jack Johnson, Jake Johnson, Banana
Pancakes, Jake Johnson. Someone has said

921
01:22:47.399 --> 01:22:54.279
this about him that like he kisses
the way like older film stars used to

922
01:22:54.359 --> 01:22:58.079
kiss, which is like full,
like I am in this like full kind

923
01:22:58.119 --> 01:23:02.960
of body kissing. And that's true. And that's I think what I saw

924
01:23:03.079 --> 01:23:09.600
here with these two. Uh,
it is questionable at best due to the

925
01:23:09.680 --> 01:23:13.920
non con of it all, but
it was hot. So and I know

926
01:23:14.039 --> 01:23:16.479
it's his buddy's wife, but you
know what, we love a witch bitch

927
01:23:17.119 --> 01:23:23.560
and we love forgetting kisses. So
speaking of your buddy's wife, yeah,

928
01:23:24.399 --> 01:23:29.399
uh, Kirk's wife Spock in Chapel, Oh have I not done that one?

929
01:23:30.279 --> 01:23:33.560
I haven't done Spock. Well,
maybe because I was shipping them before

930
01:23:33.600 --> 01:23:38.840
we started this game. I'm knocking
out two big ones. I'm claiming two

931
01:23:38.880 --> 01:23:44.079
big ones. Again. I would
have done them, but I had forgotten

932
01:23:44.119 --> 01:23:47.039
that we didn't do it. That
are like fuck because they are an OTB

933
01:23:47.760 --> 01:23:54.079
one of them. I've got many
one true pair the trio and them.

934
01:23:55.079 --> 01:24:00.199
We haven't seen too much of Chapel. That's unfortunate. More Chapel, and

935
01:24:00.640 --> 01:24:03.359
it's very clear from earlier episodes that
Spock and Chapel are very much into each

936
01:24:03.399 --> 01:24:09.920
other. Yeah, and we get
hints of that as Chapel clings onto mister

937
01:24:10.000 --> 01:24:15.399
Spock as he recovers in his Vulcan
trans coma yep. And then you know

938
01:24:16.239 --> 01:24:26.720
Roddenberry exercising some kinks by Spock demanding
Chapel slap him. Yeah, harder it

939
01:24:26.840 --> 01:24:30.640
because they have to fight their way
back to consciousness. Yeah, it was

940
01:24:31.039 --> 01:24:41.479
pretty great. I'm fully I fully
approve of that ship. You love that

941
01:24:42.560 --> 01:24:45.399
And it seems like I've won I
Starship, but maybe I won't win this

942
01:24:45.640 --> 01:24:49.319
final round. Trying to answer which
is better this week Star Trek or Star

943
01:24:49.359 --> 01:24:54.520
Awards, as we finally reveal once
for all, which is better again?

944
01:24:54.640 --> 01:24:58.800
The properties in question are the Empire
strikes Back Special Edition versus a Private Little

945
01:24:58.840 --> 01:25:04.880
War from Star Trek original series.
I will start first the Empire strikes Back

946
01:25:06.039 --> 01:25:14.119
robust eight. Well, sounds good. I believe I've said this before.

947
01:25:14.399 --> 01:25:20.720
Yeah, again, I don't my
quibble quibble, and I wish it was

948
01:25:20.720 --> 01:25:29.199
a little bit more self contained.
Maybe Okay, well that's like a quibble.

949
01:25:29.920 --> 01:25:36.520
Sure, well, I family want
from me icon Empire strikes Back good

950
01:25:36.560 --> 01:25:42.119
movie? What do you want from
me it stop yelling at me. Well,

951
01:25:42.159 --> 01:25:45.239
I famously gave this a ten the
last time we talked about it,

952
01:25:45.359 --> 01:25:49.279
So I'm gonna give this a nine
point five because it's a special edition.

953
01:25:49.600 --> 01:25:56.560
Yes, which brings Star Wars Episode
five. The Empire strikes back Special Edition

954
01:25:56.720 --> 01:26:00.279
down to an eight point seventy five, but it could still be anybody game.

955
01:26:00.319 --> 01:26:03.760
As we move over to a Private
Little War, an episode which both

956
01:26:03.800 --> 01:26:08.840
of us famously warm on Private Little
War, I'm going to give it a

957
01:26:08.880 --> 01:26:14.319
spite ranking a point five. We
get some brown face in there, and

958
01:26:14.439 --> 01:26:17.960
I think that anything with brown face
should be automatically discounted. At that being

959
01:26:18.119 --> 01:26:29.159
said, I think from an anthropological
standpoint of where Hollywood storytelling was in nineteen

960
01:26:29.279 --> 01:26:34.560
sixty eight, a famously chill year
in America, in views on the Vietnam

961
01:26:34.680 --> 01:26:44.479
War, in popular culture, in
things that were not nakedly rebellious. Here

962
01:26:44.560 --> 01:26:50.880
it is right here. Even the
notoriously left leaning Star Trek is pretty darn

963
01:26:50.960 --> 01:26:55.039
centrist right here. And it says
that, then, I'm sure is complicated

964
01:26:55.079 --> 01:26:58.039
as supposed to. I think what
popular history has said, which is we

965
01:26:58.119 --> 01:27:00.880
didn't mean to be there in the
first place. I think that is fascinating

966
01:27:01.239 --> 01:27:05.439
whever, if you are just taking
it on face value and taking the metaphors

967
01:27:06.119 --> 01:27:15.119
quite clearly, its explicitly stated it's
extremely clonky patronizing. That's a good Star

968
01:27:15.199 --> 01:27:18.880
Trek episode, if that makes sense. No, Yeah, you can feel

969
01:27:19.039 --> 01:27:24.159
you can feel Roddenberry's touch over it. You can feel gene CON's touch on

970
01:27:24.359 --> 01:27:30.279
here. Yeah, even though it
is extraordinarily aboute headed Yeah, it's like

971
01:27:30.439 --> 01:27:33.479
it's funny if it is, it's
like, this is a good this is

972
01:27:33.520 --> 01:27:36.640
a good Star Trek episode. I
still give it a point five sweat rank.

973
01:27:36.800 --> 01:27:42.159
Yeah. And even if all the
if all the problematic stuff are fixed,

974
01:27:42.159 --> 01:27:45.199
it will be a radically different episode. But it's almost like art doesn't

975
01:27:45.199 --> 01:27:49.079
exist in a good bad binary.
It's almost or outside of its context.

976
01:27:49.920 --> 01:27:54.039
But it also but also I like
to use my rankings as kind of a

977
01:27:54.119 --> 01:27:58.439
platform of being like, you know, there's I'm sure that there's so much

978
01:27:58.520 --> 01:28:02.119
better art out there that could talk
about this stuff and far more eloquent terms

979
01:28:02.199 --> 01:28:08.840
than being like Klingons my god.
So I know I've said this before,

980
01:28:08.960 --> 01:28:12.119
but it is wild. Here we
go. Nineteen sixty eight, also the

981
01:28:12.239 --> 01:28:19.920
years of the assassination of MLK and
and rfk MLK, who popularly was often

982
01:28:19.960 --> 01:28:30.600
mistaken for did you tuck me?
Speaking of centering whiteness asthmen websters centering whiteness,

983
01:28:32.199 --> 01:28:36.960
and a famous story man. But
yeah, it's a real turmoil filled

984
01:28:38.079 --> 01:28:43.800
year, which makes this all the
worse. So I'm gonna give it a

985
01:28:43.920 --> 01:28:47.960
five, just five, yeah,
for everything that you said. I'm spite

986
01:28:48.039 --> 01:28:54.119
ranking it as well, but they're
not going quite so low just because I'm

987
01:28:54.199 --> 01:29:00.880
gonna give it some benefit. Mechanically
it feels good. Mm hmm. Yeah,

988
01:29:00.960 --> 01:29:03.920
mechanically in terms of like pacing you
start, but you think about it

989
01:29:04.640 --> 01:29:09.239
for a second. In terms of
the integrity of human beings, you're like,

990
01:29:09.960 --> 01:29:14.279
fuck me. I like screamed things
and notes well, for what it's

991
01:29:14.279 --> 01:29:16.079
worth, it right in all caps, love a witch, bitch. But

992
01:29:16.840 --> 01:29:20.000
I did also write in all caps
this is an argument for proxy war.

993
01:29:20.119 --> 01:29:28.239
Absolutely the fucking worst, get out
of here. And also I screamed out

994
01:29:28.359 --> 01:29:33.079
loud. No attempted sexual assault,
absolutely not. So it was not a

995
01:29:33.119 --> 01:29:38.079
good time for me, I can
tell you that much. Speaking of furthering

996
01:29:38.199 --> 01:29:41.479
proxy wars, So it was this
proxy war for star Trek and star wars

997
01:29:41.520 --> 01:29:47.199
perpetuated Aspen Aspen. You must be
so pleased to learn that Star Wars episode

998
01:29:47.279 --> 01:29:51.399
five, the Empire strikes back the
special edition. When's the week over a

999
01:29:51.439 --> 01:30:04.479
private little war? I'm sorry,
I will let I will let this this

1000
01:30:04.680 --> 01:30:10.399
win lighten my heart a bit.
I apologize for becoming so dower and sad

1001
01:30:10.520 --> 01:30:21.680
thinking about the US imperialism. I
apologize for my countenance. Look, if

1002
01:30:21.720 --> 01:30:27.279
you would like to give penance for
your countenance, why not visit us over

1003
01:30:27.359 --> 01:30:30.680
on Patreon. On patreon dot com
slash track Wars Pod. We're at five

1004
01:30:30.760 --> 01:30:33.960
dollars a month. You can get
access to extended episodes and early episodes of

1005
01:30:34.039 --> 01:30:39.520
communicate with us. You can join
the offices of fine folks such as Timbo

1006
01:30:39.640 --> 01:30:42.920
Dessa, Emily Brice, Love,
Hidie Rogers, Kevin Miller, Mark Bibbert,

1007
01:30:43.000 --> 01:30:45.279
Ryan Nill, new patron Aaron Sigins, Thank you so much for your

1008
01:30:45.319 --> 01:30:48.279
patront. Sweet you, we love
you. And finally, last weep I

1009
01:30:48.399 --> 01:30:53.159
certainly not leastly Jolty partner, We
love you, honey. We can't wait

1010
01:30:53.199 --> 01:30:58.079
for the pizza that's on the counter. Additionally, why not leave us a

1011
01:30:58.159 --> 01:31:00.600
review? Hop on over to track
wars pod dot com, click on the

1012
01:31:00.640 --> 01:31:04.800
reviews tap and find the podcaster of
your choice. Leave us prefectly. They

1013
01:31:04.800 --> 01:31:08.760
are a four star. I fin
a star review because we would like people

1014
01:31:08.840 --> 01:31:15.079
to know that we are indeed charismatic
and smart. And also you can find

1015
01:31:15.159 --> 01:31:18.680
us on social media Instagram, Blue
Sky. Uh, I guess we're on

1016
01:31:18.760 --> 01:31:23.840
Twitter. Twitter won't die, but
I don't want to engage with it because

1017
01:31:24.640 --> 01:31:28.239
they're evil, nefarious actors and I
wish that humans would just be better.

1018
01:31:28.920 --> 01:31:31.560
But luckily I am with the good
human right now, with Asmen Webster.

1019
01:31:32.039 --> 01:31:34.960
Asen, thank you for being the
kind, empathetic soul that you are,

1020
01:31:35.840 --> 01:31:42.680
and you know good on ye Oh, thanks man, I don't know.

1021
01:31:42.800 --> 01:31:45.840
We're just trying our best. We
are indeed trying our best. You're a

1022
01:31:45.840 --> 01:31:50.239
good guy. You're a good guy, Aspen. I love you. I

1023
01:31:50.359 --> 01:31:55.720
love you too, Listeners, we
love you. What do you think real

1024
01:31:55.800 --> 01:31:58.600
quick? No? I think I
think we can do it. I think

1025
01:31:58.640 --> 01:32:00.319
we could. I think we're got
this. We got this. We're good

1026
01:32:00.760 --> 01:32:02.600
all right. May the Force be
with you A live long prosper