Orientalism, Sexualization, and Fear

WEBVTT

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Welcome to the Trek Wars Podcast,
the Internet's best source for answering the one

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question, the most important question in
fandom, which is better Star Trek Star

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Wars. We're Babylon five. I
am but one of your co hosts,

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Kenny Madison with me as Per always
my co host with the mo host Aspen

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Webster. Aspen like the tree,
Webster like the dictionary. I like lots

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of things. I'm a Leo.
I'm also a Libra moon, a Scorpio

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rising. If you ever want to
just like check that out and see you

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know anything more about me? Yep, that's me. Also, I like

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Star Wars and I like Star Trek. Now, Aspen, are you a

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fan of kind of gothic horror?
I fucking love gothic horror. I also

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love who Dunn It's I love haunted
houses. I love lots of things,

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and I felt deeply confused about my
feelings while watching a lot of stuff today.

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That's Greg as we cover from Star
Wars E Horrorville's Huts of Horrors versus

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The Tragic Flute versus Wolf in the
Fold from Star Trek the original series.

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Yes, my Duddah, my guy, Yes, had a great time also

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had a weird time, had a
confusing time, but philt Okay, how

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are you O? Wait? Sorry, we should do Yeah, I don't

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know. I felt great, but
uh, for people that are playing the

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at home version of Trek Wars podcast, perhaps we should add some premises to

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catch listeners up on where the heck
we are in the seasons? Sure my

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starting? Yes? Ah great?
Okay, so we got a little two

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fur Horror Horrorville's Huts of a Horror
so in the Tragic Flu Both of them

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were at least November fifteenth, nineteen
eighty six. Let's see, looks like

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Horrville's Hut of Horrors written by Paul
Deani and then Tragicallute written by Bob Carral

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just our fabulous of friends, Dale
shot as director as typically typical. It

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seems like they've just like been the
guys this time around. Yes, I

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would be eager. I would love
to talk to anyone that worked on these

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shows. I have the first idea
of how to reach anyone, because there

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is just so little literature on.
As we've said before, the Droids and

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Ewok's TV shows important pieces of Star
Wars law that even in massive oral histories

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there might be at most like a
paragraph. Meanwhile, like these shows were

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on for two years, Kenny,
how do we find these people? Let's

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get in touch with Pauldini. We'll
just like send an email. Okay,

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So, like, do you want
to be on a podcast? Do you

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want to just chat? Yeah?
In the state of Texas, only one

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party has to be aware that someone's
being recorded, and you could be the

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party recording. You can't do that
in other states and other states, both

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parts have to know they're being recorded. Isn't that weird? I'm not saying

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we're going to do that to Pauldini. Please don't think we're going to do

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that to Paldini. You know what
I have to say to that? What's

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and I know I'm being recorded and
Kenny knows he's being recorded. So we

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are all having a consensual recording slash
here. But isn't that fucked up?

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That is, although I guess in
some cases perhaps not, like if you

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were in a situation of abuse and
you're recording someone without their knowledge, So

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maybe anyway. Horrible Cut of Horrors, Wickett takes the walk, links to

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a spooky carnival show and upsets the
younger eu Woks. He tries to entertain

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them to forget about the trauma.
That's such a good description. It's true,

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it's literal, Like the energy of
that episode is older older siblings traumatize

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younger siblings and it is great.
And then in The Tragic Flutes, Littara

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gets captured by a sea creature and
her friends venture underwater to help her,

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specifically a sea creature who is a
crabman with a mustache who tests out if

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you are selfish or greedy or not, and if you fail his test puts

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you inside of his body. It
takes you to his underground castle and forces

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you to be a mermaid, and
then your friends have to find you and

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save you and pass the test.
There's a surprising amount of horror and kidnapping

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these episodes. I just watch these
episodes and read the descriptions, is reminding

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me how much they rocked. Like
what the fuck. There's a character that

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shows up in the Tragic Flute that's
like a little fish, and I was

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like, this is exactly the kind
of character I would play if this were

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like a kid's improv show, Like
I would have come out and been like,

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oh my guys, I'm just a
little fish. So glad to help.

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Oh good anyway, Speaking of being
so glad to help, here's the

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plot synopsis from and I'm pulling this
from. These are the Voyages tos season

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two from Mark Cushman. And this
press release for Wolf in the Fold,

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written by Robert Block direct by Joseph
Pepney has pulled through a press release issued

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by Embassy NBC. You should sorry, Embassy would be great? Is should?

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From the Embassy press release issued November
twenty seventh, nineteen sixty seven.

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Captain Kirk risks the lives of his
entire personnel when he transfers a murder investigation

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to the Enterprise. In Wolf in
the Fold on NBC Television Networks Star Trek

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Color cast Friday, December twenty second, Kirk, Mister Smock, and doctor

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McCoy take Scotty to pluge your planet. Arc Jellias ar Gellias too to help

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him recover from an injury. A
beautiful dancer, Cara, is knifed to

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death while with while with Scotti,
and evidence points to him a great writing

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hold on. During the investigation,
two more women are murdered, and Scotty

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again is suspected. The inquiry is
bogged down by Hengist, the Argyllian administrator,

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until Kirk insists that be moved to
the enterprise. Then evidence begins to

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point to a Jack the Ripper type
Charles McAuley Portrays Jarris, Ruler of Argellias,

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and peelr Surat his wife Cibo Cibo
A serious boy? Oh boy?

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Did you know the guy who played
mister Hengist Hingeist tingist Hngist. It was

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pronounced a couple of different ways,
much like Leah leah han and han uh

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is the voice of Piglet. Oh, most definitely, as soon as you

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started talking, it was like,
wait a second. I mean it didn't

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help that every other line out of
his mouth was oh yeah, who was

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like one and just like really giving
it away. Dude's a one trick pony,

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am I right? Uh? Speaking
of one trick pony? Is that

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what we think about all of these
episodes today? Is it just Star Truck

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on Star Wars doing their usual thing. Oh my gosh, Well, I

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would say Kenny in some ways,
maybe a little bit. In other ways,

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I'd say, no, Surre.
This was a fun time. Actually.

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I like a couple of times during
that you WOTX episodes, I out

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loud cackled. I was like,
Wow, this is dynamic and interesting and

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funny and weird, and uh gasped
during a wolf in the Fold and literally

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said out loud to no one,
Wow, I love who had done it?

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Just yelled it so well. Also, I out loud went ah,

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I love it, who done it? But I don't like orientalism and weird

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shit like this. I just don't
know what you're talking about. In the

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slightest aspen. Also, I love
spooky shit. Both of them are.

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It's so funny that we had Kat'spaw
Kat's Paw, which is presumably supposed to

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be like the Halloween episode of Star
Trek, but this is the scary ass

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at there's some scary shit. I
love it some Jack the Ripper shit,

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listen, because that is what it
is. This is ultimately like this sort

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of timeless spirit of misogyny and murder
and serial killerism that is embodying in things

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like Jack the Ripper. I guess
presumably, I think, isn't it.

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I guess spoiler it's it is like
the idea, right that it is Jack

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the Ripper. But it's been the
same kind of thing over the years for

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like a Millennia that engages in like
terrorizing people and then murdering them. Yes,

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now, yeah, asp yeah.
Did you cite kat'spaw for a specific

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reason outside of just its tonal reference? No, that's so funny because both

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of those episodes were written by Robert
Block, writer of Psycho. What Wolf

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in the Fold? Is Robert Block
getting yet another assignment for a script and

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just being like, cool, what
else have I written? And he Pilfer

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is from one of his short stories
titled Yours Truly, Jack the Ripper,

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first published in Weird Tales in nineteen
forty three, and according to these are

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the voyages in an interview that Robert
Block did for I'm well, I would

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read the notations, but I'm just
pulling this from the book. Apparently that

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was their idea, referring to both
Gene Roddenberry and Gene Coon. They wanted

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Robert Block to do a Jack the
Ripper story but in the future, and

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that's exactly what they did. Good
job. Do you think Jane and Jane

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ever got confused? Yes? Next
question, okay, I never runs that

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is Shue. No one else has
ever named Aspen and if they were,

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I'd have to high lander them.
Anyway, which is very anti antithetical too.

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Usually what your whole vibe is aspen, Yeah, my vibe is typically

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not chopping people's heads off, I
would say, as a rule, Uh

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okay, that's funny. Yeah,
I did not. I did not clock

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that it was the same writer.
I liked how but I truly enjoyed.

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There is a point in the episode
where one there is a seance basically,

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and I love a seance, and
there's spooky fog at one point when they

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do take it up to the ship
and they're doing some kind of more straightforward,

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straightforward like what are those what are
those machines? Truth telling? They

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doing tector tests, and then it's
like this thing gets out. It can

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like get into other people's bodies,
and it gets out into the ship itself,

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and there's just this like disembodied voice. It's just like terror and I

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was like, so spooky. Similarly, they're in the Horrible Set of Horrors.

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There's like some creatures in there that
I was like, this is the

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scariest thing I've ever seen. And
I was really upset we didn't actually get

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to go through the Haunted House.
I was like, I want to be

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terrified. Well, you can't.
You can't terrify the actual little walklings in

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the real world that I were watching
this show. That's true. It is

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a show, as we've said before, for babies, but for slightly older

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babies said no, it's yeah.
So yeah, no, no, no,

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no, no. I I like
spooky shit. So I was having

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a great time. Yeah. I
enjoyed these e Walks episodes as well.

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They're very I don't know, like
the writing is just nailing it. Either

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that or I'm just getting excited that
we're getting closer to the end, and

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so I'm just relishing the time that
we have with Ewok's that is left because

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we are so close, so close, so close. It's been so much

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fun. And also it's just I
mean, when the Prospect is doing Clone

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Wars and you're so close to Clone
Wars, we're so close. But then

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we'll be in the middle of Clone
Wars clothes Wars, We'll just be like,

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oh, I guess it's the uh
oh boy, it's the Droid arc.

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This is not a fun place to
be in. We'll find ourselves wishing

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for rebels and I don't know,
I don't know, because I've got which

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is very exciting yeah, real quick, Can I tell you you know this

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about me? I love Who Done
It's like I wrote it down, It's

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in the show notes. I love
them. I literally directed Who Done It?

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Show? I love them. My
favorite movie is Knives Out. I

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also your favorite movie is Knives Out? Yep, it is. I did

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not know that about you. Yeah. In my top five is Knives Out

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in Hot Fuzz for sure, I'll
have to think about this. Both those

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movies are Who Done It? Yeah? Yeah? Who? Who's who had

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done? Who has done it?
Who done did it? Who? What

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is the plural of who done it? Who done it? Who done It's?

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Who done? Who? We all
did done it? Yes? And

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also, uh, there's this really
cool game that Joel and I will play.

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Duel is my partner, and it
is in fact, it is a

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Sherlock game that is like you get
a case and then you decide to follow

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leads and the leads will give you
and it's like in a booklet, and

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so you can decide to go to
like a certain location in London and you

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can find like where in London,
and you can like follow these leads and

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we're in this like it's you know, so it's like Sherlock and but or

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like it's like his uh uh,
like his little like the kids, the

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irregulars and stuff, and that he
like pays to go solve crimes and stuff.

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And now we're in this one that's
all about like Jack the Ripper stuff

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and it's based on like real murders, and so I just was into it.

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Look, no spoilers for Star Trek
six, a movie that we will

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cover way in the future. Yeah, but if you like show out Holmes,

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Oh, you're gonna love Star Trek
six. Great, great, I

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feel great, Kenny, Sorry,
please please please please, I will stop.

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I will stop going on and on. Oh that's okay, because it

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is so interesting that you're talking about
loving Who Done It? Because and I'm

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going to title this segment the Deep
Bird into Star Trek this week, this

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episode based off of previous short story
that's written by Robert Block. However,

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this show was gonna get Jack the
Ripper into the computer much sooner. Glad

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it didn't, and so it would
have been yet another episode of Kirk fighting

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the computer once again, and that
does not happen in this episode. It's

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good. Instead, the longer who
Done It aspect happens and it kind of

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just becomes There are not that many
sets, but the sets there are actually

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quite ornate. We have the Our
Gallias two, uh pleasure building because Our

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Gallias two is a hedonistic society where
I guess it's not specifically set in the

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text, but I guess all of
the women are just belly dancers, which

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well, well, well, well, well, well I will back up.

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I see that, and I'm like
belly dancers. But I suppose if

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you're coming from a perspective of strong
orientalism and uh sexualization of things like just

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a form of dance that is belly
dancing, that is, uh is part

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of a different culture, and you
do see that as highly sexualized, and

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perhaps you would put them into the
category of sex workers, not you personally.

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One might the I believe the line
that Scotty says to Kirk and or

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McCoy is going all of the women, but they never finish it. Oh,

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I thought he just meant hot all
the women are hotties. It is

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all of the women not hot.
Uh. Yeah, this episode, I

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was like you for like the first
five minutes, and then as soon as

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murder happened, I went, yeah, I'll give you three seconds to for

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you to guess whose idea the Pleasure
Planet was Gene Rodenberry. There we go.

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Good job, Asmin. I know
my genes, I know my Gene,

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and he's gross versus Gene Kuhn,
who would just probably be more like,

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can we like make this fun?
Oh, Gene got a lot of

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the more fun aspects. Stop that. Stop stop that. I know you

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want to clap for me, It's
not right now inappropriate. I mean a

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lot of the more recognizable aspects from
Star Trek are thanks to you, Gene

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Kuhn. And then as we start
transitioning from Genekun to John Meredith Lucas and

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then eventually Fred Freiberger and season three, you can you can feel Gene coon

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not being at the helm. Does
it get less fun? It just yes,

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well it just we've already touched on
it. Boring with obsession. Oh

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believe I don't like her when things
become less fun. I few do athen

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except for Snyder Bros. Who actually
are just like good. I don't want

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fun, Yeah, I want to
suffer. Should we cover Rebel Moon?

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I genuinely until yesterday did not know
what that was. And Joel showed me

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the rotten Tomatoes score on it of
like twenty percent, and I was like,

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what the fuck is that? And
he was like, Zax sandersy movie

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and I was like, what the
fuck is that? I have so little

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patience. That's correct, Yes,
I actually have a lot of patience,

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but not for that. Yes,
we're not talking about Zack Snyder. We're

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talking about God, thank God,
Star Trek right now. So yes,

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this became more of a who done
it because of that. Originally I believe

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it was supposed to be Sulu that
was on trial for almost killing all them

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ladies, but they were like,
we should use Scotty instead. Okay.

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Two points here. One, this
is the second time you've told me that

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Sulu was considered for something and then
someone else was used instead. When does

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Sulu get to do stuff and have
focus, especially considering you might have noticed

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that or not, probably because Sulu
is very much on the periphery. But

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during this season, Sulu is in
a movie with John Wayne the green Berets.

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He's filming at the same time as
season two is going on. Okay,

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which is also one of the reason. This is why Chakov gets foregrounded

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more and he's a presence on the
bridge because Sulu is literally not there because

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he's filming a movie with John Wayne. Okay, if you have a cast

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member that is in a movie with
John Wayne, why are you not giving

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him more roles to do? Yeah? But okay, I know the answer

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to that. Oh I wonder,
I wonder what I could be. Every

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time someone has been like, perhaps
Zulu could be focused, someone's just like,

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I just can't put my finger on
why. I don't want that to

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be true, not to less than
the work that James Dowan did in the

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slightest Sure, and also they sure
gave check a whole lot to do.

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Yeah, they have given Scotty a
lot to do. It's almost like it's

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like a hoa and Sulu aren't getting
a lot to do. It's almost like

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there's a running theme of backpack adding
liberalism that Jeene Roddenberry has put into the

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core of Star Trek that runs to
this day, to this day, every

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fucking thing. Every time I'm like
someone saying like, look at this diversity

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we've achieved, and then that person
gets absolutely nothing to do within a show

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or a movie, and even worse, as an actor is treated like shit,

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I mean so cool, am I? Right? Real? Liberalism,

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like what we did. Oh wow, just like on one today number one

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sounds like we got some racism.
Great too. I would say the biggest

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problem with the episode is the racist
the racism and the sexism. But you

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know, oh that it's great.
I mean I would I would like for

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you to go more into the orientental
orientalism aspects. So this episode starts off

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with because you're just smart and I
want to hear it. That's kind.

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Let me just say my second thing
here is that Scottie walks out with this

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woman and they go walking in the
fog and he says to her, do

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you know about like fog in Aberdeen? And all I could think was you're

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on another planet. You're not even
on Earth and you're like referring to a

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specific city in Scotland. No,
I do not know about the fog in

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Aberdeen. I don't know what Aberdeen
is. Yeah, like where what what

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planet are you from? I don't
even know what planet you're talking about in

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the first place, And that I
would certainly not know a city in a

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space that is actually part of another
United Kingdom anyway. It's just so specific,

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So I find I mean, I
think I don't know how much more

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I could add to it beyond just
generalized frustration I have with this. We

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see the same thing with Oryan girls, like you know, you've talked about

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the fact that we're going to paint
them green or so that they can be

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emblematic or like suggestive of having a
different skin tone than a classic white or

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classic what we see as default,
so that they can be exotified. And

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then the same thing here where it's
like clearly calling forth a kind of Arabic

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culture, a general generic Arabic culture, and then attaching that with just hedonism

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hedonisms very specifically. And it's so
interesting because this actor, this woman who

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this dancer is fabulous. She gets
a whole dance number that is so impressive,

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Like this is difficult stuff, and
she's so talented, and everybody's just

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like ogling her. And if feels
upsetting, Scotty is just like gross.

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Everyone is gross. Kirk is in
fact to doing this sort of like predatory

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00:24:08.519 --> 00:24:15.359
predatory glare thing that I'm just like. We we talk about Kirk Drift frequently,

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00:24:15.960 --> 00:24:19.480
right article from Strange Horizons and the
freshly remembered Kirkdrift article that you can

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find quite easily but this is Kirk
fulfilling it. All of the men being

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very gross. I know a place
where the women are so hot, they're

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so into having sex with you.
Yeah, I mean it's lazy of the

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time. I am sure it was, like I imagine, very common.

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Already seen it in Star Trek.
Yeah, the kind of it. Also

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there's almost a sense too, so
when the first murder happens, it's established

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that there is a kind of there's
a prefect of this planet with his wife,

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and they're just very much like they're
not only like hedonistic, they're also

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very they don't they're very non violent
too, and they actually the quote that

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I wrote down is the law of
Argelias. It's love cute. So they

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had to bring in this guy from
Rachel four, who is this mister hingist

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and just the voice of Piglet.
Yes, I should have just written I

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00:25:44.279 --> 00:25:45.319
wrote it down his name the way
it was spelled, but I should have

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written it down the way it was
said who he was brought in, because

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it's like they just don't deal with
this kind of stuff. So if that

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brings one in from another like a
magistate or something from like another planet,

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00:25:59.240 --> 00:26:08.119
Rachel too. Rachel four. Sorry's
hopefully this isn't all right Rachel two versus

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Rachel four. We're played by price
prices, right rules, Rachel four closest

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without going older over the other one. Next time we go see a movie

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has to like buy a minesota.
There we go, Rigel four. Yeah,

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00:26:30.480 --> 00:26:38.240
buddy, by thanks a fabulous so
I wrote, I wrote down,

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00:26:38.319 --> 00:26:42.839
Well, here's why, because I
wrote down from Rachel four. Dude is

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the voice of Piglet. That's how
I know. But so not only that

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is, there's this piece two of
so they are highly sexualized and also infantalized

305
00:26:56.799 --> 00:27:00.359
there, you know, love,
and they can't all their own problems or

306
00:27:00.359 --> 00:27:03.640
have their own piece, they have
to have people from other places come in.

307
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So yeah, I mean, pretty
straightforward, classic example of bullshit.

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And then you cut you couple that
with the seance that they do, which

309
00:27:15.920 --> 00:27:29.000
is endowing it with justicism mysticism,
yes, which isn't necessarily problematic, but

310
00:27:29.119 --> 00:27:34.680
just going yeah, in tandem with
the tropes because they are in this vaguely

311
00:27:37.680 --> 00:27:47.480
orientalist backdrop, just as set dressing
for alien culture of the week. Yeah.

312
00:27:47.799 --> 00:27:49.759
Well, and it actually, I
will say the seance piece of it,

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the fact that she is like has
this sort of like empathic contact ability

314
00:27:56.319 --> 00:28:00.559
that end and up itself very much
like the sort of again and that's sort

315
00:28:00.559 --> 00:28:04.519
of exodified like whoa, but the
but the mysticism piece and then hold on

316
00:28:04.519 --> 00:28:14.000
a second, I'm sorry what you
just watch Jack the Rippers, mind you

317
00:28:22.359 --> 00:28:29.440
the mysticism saance piece though that's actually
very English, uh, since that became

318
00:28:29.599 --> 00:28:32.240
not English, but you know,
it's like very and also in the Americas

319
00:28:32.240 --> 00:28:34.519
too, became very popular in a
certain period of time when you had like

320
00:28:34.519 --> 00:28:38.400
a lot of fantasmic gloria pieces.
So kind of going back to Cat's Pa

321
00:28:38.519 --> 00:28:42.119
stuff and other you know, that's
gonna makes sense that we'd be sort of

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00:28:42.160 --> 00:28:48.720
hearkening back to like what feels very
of a time with like Jack the Ripper,

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00:28:48.960 --> 00:28:55.480
Foggy London, uh, trying to
sort of commune with spirits to understand

324
00:28:55.519 --> 00:29:00.240
what's happening. So it is an
interesting sort of crossover of themes, yes,

325
00:29:00.920 --> 00:29:04.119
but the rest of it too,
yeah, just sort of it reeks

326
00:29:04.279 --> 00:29:11.880
it reeks of orient orientalism and racism. And then there's just like a dash

327
00:29:11.920 --> 00:29:15.799
of weird misogyny thrown on top.
Though for what it's worth, I mean,

328
00:29:15.880 --> 00:29:18.720
Jack the ripperd that all of his
targets were in fact women, and

329
00:29:18.759 --> 00:29:22.480
often like lower class women, and
they were also sex workers. Often.

330
00:29:22.799 --> 00:29:30.839
It is just dicey for me to
watch this now. The beginning of the

331
00:29:30.839 --> 00:29:34.359
episode, McCoy is just like,
sure, glad that we can get Scotty

332
00:29:34.400 --> 00:29:37.720
to like women again. Ever since
he was into that explosion that a woman

333
00:29:37.880 --> 00:29:42.200
caused. I was like, men
are causing explosions all the time, and

334
00:29:42.240 --> 00:29:48.599
you don't hate them. And then
the central premise of the episode is Scotty

335
00:29:48.759 --> 00:29:53.119
can't. Scotty claims he can't remember
killing all of these women, even though

336
00:29:53.200 --> 00:30:03.680
you literally find him with a bloody
knife in his hand and a woman falls

337
00:30:03.200 --> 00:30:11.759
from the knife as he has jammed
it into her back. Yeah, I

338
00:30:11.880 --> 00:30:15.799
understand. Its science fiction. Yeah, and also the optics from our present

339
00:30:15.880 --> 00:30:30.079
day standpoint a real bad. It's
fun I well, yeah, because I

340
00:30:32.759 --> 00:30:36.839
yeah, I have to let go
and just be like this is released in

341
00:30:36.920 --> 00:30:42.680
nineteen sixty seven, right, and
a bunch of boys are in charge of

342
00:30:44.640 --> 00:30:48.599
this TV ship. I did have
an interesting moment where I was like just

343
00:30:48.599 --> 00:30:55.000
wow, one single interesting moment where
I was like wow. In this episode

344
00:30:55.000 --> 00:31:02.400
about the brutal murder of women,
they're exactly three women who get to speak,

345
00:31:03.759 --> 00:31:08.720
two of whom are murdered brutally,
and one is just a yeoman.

346
00:31:11.200 --> 00:31:14.599
Because that's one single line, and
I was like that that makes a lot

347
00:31:14.640 --> 00:31:19.720
of sense for sure. I also
my favorite, absolute favorite moment, which

348
00:31:19.960 --> 00:31:30.480
was the idea that women would be
murdered specifically because they are more easily terrified

349
00:31:30.759 --> 00:31:34.480
than men. And so this creature, this Jack the ripper of creature,

350
00:31:34.480 --> 00:31:37.319
like you know, serial killers,
like I get you scared first so that

351
00:31:37.400 --> 00:31:41.960
I could really enjoy this, which
is patently untrue. Have you seen me

352
00:31:42.559 --> 00:31:49.480
around a small lizard? I have
not, and I would love to.

353
00:31:49.720 --> 00:31:55.880
I will punch anything in everything around
me to get away because I do not

354
00:31:55.920 --> 00:31:59.920
want to get tickled by that thing, like one of those little green list

355
00:32:02.839 --> 00:32:06.240
you ever seen one, know,
one of those like big old boys,

356
00:32:06.640 --> 00:32:12.000
they have that little red thing that
comes out of their neck. If you

357
00:32:12.039 --> 00:32:14.160
could send me picture so I could
put that in the show notes, that'd

358
00:32:14.200 --> 00:32:17.559
be great. I'm from Florida,
where we have just so many fucking lizards,

359
00:32:17.839 --> 00:32:23.559
and then these big guys would just
be like rap rap, Sorry,

360
00:32:23.599 --> 00:32:30.640
I know I'm terrifying you right now. What did you think of the Cepo's

361
00:32:30.720 --> 00:32:36.240
power of empathic touch into it,
into it. That's a pretty cool power.

362
00:32:36.799 --> 00:32:40.319
I'm into it. I'd hate it
to have it. I kind of

363
00:32:40.559 --> 00:32:45.160
have it. I have it.
Do you have it? You can have

364
00:32:45.200 --> 00:32:52.680
empathic touch? Oh? Or is
it only wimurder people raised as woman and

365
00:32:52.799 --> 00:32:57.000
I could have impound out touch?
Well, I just think, look,

366
00:32:57.000 --> 00:33:04.000
because the central conflict of the episode
is Scottie kill murder all these women.

367
00:33:04.759 --> 00:33:10.000
But I just wish that there was
some character with like an established telepathic ability

368
00:33:10.119 --> 00:33:15.839
that could have just gone into someone's
mind and just been like verified, some

369
00:33:15.920 --> 00:33:22.440
sort of barried truth, like like
if Cibo or like I don't know if

370
00:33:22.480 --> 00:33:28.680
some character had that power and could
have just been like, would it be

371
00:33:28.720 --> 00:33:32.119
okay if I could, I don't
know, like oh, put my mind

372
00:33:32.119 --> 00:33:43.799
to your mind? Oh god,
okay. A Spock was like, I'm

373
00:33:43.799 --> 00:33:50.319
busy, well aspen and this is
the also the fun of doing research.

374
00:33:51.640 --> 00:33:59.000
I wouldn't know. Apparently, egos
needed to get maintained, specifically William Shatner's

375
00:33:59.000 --> 00:34:05.079
ego, because mister Nimoy had by
this point Gutten nominated for an Emmy and

376
00:34:05.640 --> 00:34:10.159
was getting a lot of fan mail
and folks behind the scenes were just like

377
00:34:10.800 --> 00:34:16.400
Shatner's becoming more difficult. Let's put
let's Spock on the sideline this episode.

378
00:34:16.719 --> 00:34:22.320
Oh he really was signelined. Yeah, but you don't really notice because you're

379
00:34:22.360 --> 00:34:28.000
just like, you're just popping along
with the pretty good episode. And then

380
00:34:28.079 --> 00:34:34.320
Spock comes along towards the ladder half
and doesn't really have that much dialogue.

381
00:34:34.760 --> 00:34:37.920
Mm hmmm, almost as much as
a woman, you know, a woman.

382
00:34:38.599 --> 00:34:42.079
Yeah, yeah, instead of get
thing the whole time, I was

383
00:34:42.119 --> 00:34:45.800
just like the woman woman. Yeah, but he does get that iconic line,

384
00:34:46.079 --> 00:34:51.519
iconic line about how women are more
terrified than men just naturally by just

385
00:34:51.519 --> 00:34:55.039
by definition, they just get so
fucking scared of little lizards. No,

386
00:34:55.199 --> 00:34:59.840
that's me. You're you're confusing.
Sorry what I don't confusing? Most women?

387
00:35:00.079 --> 00:35:05.559
What mean? Red bird? Red
red neck? Just I don't want

388
00:35:05.559 --> 00:35:14.159
to get tickled? Who does?
Who likes being tickled? Who likes it?

389
00:35:14.760 --> 00:35:17.559
Fetishists? Yeah, sure, and
we won't We will not shame them,

390
00:35:17.599 --> 00:35:27.400
but like who else? Uh?
Speaking of fetishists? All right,

391
00:35:27.480 --> 00:35:30.760
we've got star wars. Let's talk
about some star wars, and let's talk

392
00:35:30.760 --> 00:35:37.159
about EU woks. Did you like
the part where uh? Okay, uh

393
00:35:37.199 --> 00:35:44.679
where Wicked he uh uh Tebo sets
up this like a little device to suck

394
00:35:44.760 --> 00:35:47.119
the bad dreams out of the walkling's
heads while they're sleeping, and it works,

395
00:35:47.159 --> 00:35:52.199
but then it falls over and all
the bad dreams go into Wicked's brain

396
00:35:52.280 --> 00:35:55.320
and then he has a Dolly esque
sort of landscape that he runs through.

397
00:35:55.840 --> 00:36:04.079
I loved that melting locks, there
were clocks. Did you also like when

398
00:36:04.360 --> 00:36:08.840
Latara got picked up by a hand
inside of a shell and then dropped into

399
00:36:08.920 --> 00:36:15.360
the body of a mustachioed crab.
Yeah, I loved it. I too

400
00:36:15.559 --> 00:36:22.960
loved it. I mean King Galbo, we like him. He likes to

401
00:36:22.000 --> 00:36:27.039
be honest. Well in the Tragic
Flute and the Tragic Flute, Well,

402
00:36:27.320 --> 00:36:31.199
I did find it. So the
idea here is that, Yeah, so

403
00:36:31.239 --> 00:36:37.440
this is that second episode is that
Nissa, being true of heart, loses

404
00:36:37.480 --> 00:36:43.440
her little ankle bracelet, her anklet, and he's like in the water and

405
00:36:43.480 --> 00:36:46.320
he comes up like rubble in the
water, and then he's just like,

406
00:36:46.719 --> 00:36:52.000
it is your anklete. She's like
no, and he's like your anklin they're

407
00:36:52.000 --> 00:36:53.360
beautiful and vidual. She's like no, And then he pulls out hers and

408
00:36:53.360 --> 00:36:57.320
then he gives them all to her
because she was honest to Latar, being

409
00:36:57.320 --> 00:37:00.639
a little shit is like I hate
this flute that friends made me with their

410
00:37:00.719 --> 00:37:05.920
own hands that she wants some one, and she just goes launches into like

411
00:37:06.320 --> 00:37:13.000
real intense, like greedy face.
So this this, this mustachioed crab man,

412
00:37:13.159 --> 00:37:17.719
king elbow, king elbow basically is
like they go to rescue her,

413
00:37:17.760 --> 00:37:22.599
and at the end of it,
he's like got this like sort of Austin

414
00:37:22.679 --> 00:37:28.880
Bowers esque idea of like a mutated
sting ray shark that's like gonna eat them.

415
00:37:30.039 --> 00:37:37.280
It's like sharks with lasers. And
she has to find like the best

416
00:37:37.400 --> 00:37:40.360
treasure, which you know, of
course, like a spoiler, it's the

417
00:37:40.360 --> 00:37:45.360
flute that her friends made her.
And I was just like, this dude

418
00:37:45.559 --> 00:37:51.800
is willing to murder these children for
the principle of it, and that is

419
00:37:52.480 --> 00:38:00.239
badass. You can't stand you can't
stand a liar. In fact, if

420
00:38:00.280 --> 00:38:04.880
you hate a liar, you really
should be like so committed to that hatred

421
00:38:04.920 --> 00:38:07.840
that you will kill children. I
think it's worth it. I think that's

422
00:38:07.920 --> 00:38:10.920
you know, murder. I think
it's fine. Absolutely, yeah, dude,

423
00:38:12.119 --> 00:38:14.599
I was doing do it and then
not only that, just writing it

424
00:38:14.639 --> 00:38:17.199
down I wrote this down. The
episode isn't about the reward of telling the

425
00:38:17.199 --> 00:38:25.440
truth like in Prout Beaten, but
the punishment. Why yeah, because it's

426
00:38:25.440 --> 00:38:30.840
not. You're not rewarding Latara for
finally tying the truth. No, they're

427
00:38:30.880 --> 00:38:37.599
just allowed to escape. Yeah,
well she learns she has a real Last

428
00:38:37.599 --> 00:38:42.480
Crusade moment where she's like, well
it actually it's more like Last Crusade has

429
00:38:42.519 --> 00:38:47.239
more of a tragic flute moment.
You know what I'm I was trying to

430
00:38:47.239 --> 00:38:53.360
think of when Last Crusade came out
after really yeah, this was released in

431
00:38:53.400 --> 00:38:59.199
eighty six. Last Crusade came out
in eighty nine. Oh that's when I

432
00:38:59.360 --> 00:39:06.519
was born. Yeah, no,
stop eighty eight, No eighty nine?

433
00:39:07.000 --> 00:39:12.360
What? Yes? What? Yeah? What year? What? What month?

434
00:39:12.960 --> 00:39:15.239
Nineteen eighty nine? That's the year. I say? What month?

435
00:39:15.559 --> 00:39:19.079
What month? Wait? Month is
it? What month? Is it?

436
00:39:19.360 --> 00:39:22.239
Summer? Memorial Day? Oh my
god, that was actually the tagline He's

437
00:39:22.280 --> 00:39:29.079
back in an All New Adventure Memorial
Day nineteen eighty nine, May twenty fourth,

438
00:39:29.199 --> 00:39:34.280
nineteen eighty I feel weird, but
you know what, this makes sense

439
00:39:34.320 --> 00:39:38.559
because of a River of Phoenix being
the agy was so okay, I'm back.

440
00:39:39.920 --> 00:39:42.960
I just feel like I should have
known that. I like to know

441
00:39:43.039 --> 00:39:45.199
things about the year I was born, the fall of the Berlin Wall,

442
00:39:46.519 --> 00:39:52.480
the birth of Taylor Swift, Last
Crusade being released. I can't believe I

443
00:39:52.519 --> 00:39:55.320
did it no well in terms of
the research that you did for this episode,

444
00:39:55.360 --> 00:40:02.199
you chose poorly. Yeah. Yeah, Look, Meanwhile, Horrorville's had

445
00:40:02.199 --> 00:40:08.320
of horrors. The Warriors are going
on their overnight trip. Well, Wicked

446
00:40:08.360 --> 00:40:13.039
wants to go, but he's got
to go. Babiesit those walklings. Yeah,

447
00:40:13.440 --> 00:40:16.119
I want to see a baby show. Meanwhile, I'm looking at them

448
00:40:16.119 --> 00:40:21.920
tumble bunnies and I'm just being like, let them go. They were so

449
00:40:22.159 --> 00:40:27.519
cute. Yeah, those tumble bunnies
were fantastic. Yeah. Hey, we're

450
00:40:27.559 --> 00:40:32.079
only children. We never had to
like take our younger siblings anywhere because we

451
00:40:32.079 --> 00:40:36.320
didn't have any younger siblings. No, we had to take care of other

452
00:40:36.400 --> 00:40:39.159
family members like we had to.
We had to parent our parents. So

453
00:40:39.480 --> 00:40:44.840
well, it's not don't don't speak
for don't speak for all of us.

454
00:40:45.599 --> 00:40:49.360
Oh, we've never experienced truly the
horror of being like I guess I have

455
00:40:49.480 --> 00:40:54.760
to like take my younger siblings everywhere. Did this episode for you? Give

456
00:40:54.800 --> 00:41:01.719
you a taste of that experience.
No, because I was just vibing with

457
00:41:01.760 --> 00:41:07.079
the tumble Bunnies, and also because
I had such a people pleaser as a

458
00:41:07.159 --> 00:41:08.400
child. If I got a directive
from my parents to do a thing,

459
00:41:08.519 --> 00:41:12.920
I would do the thing. Right. So they said, don't go to

460
00:41:12.920 --> 00:41:15.320
the Horrorvilles how to Horror Show,
I would not go to the Horrorville's how

461
00:41:15.320 --> 00:41:19.760
To Horror Show, and I would
sit there and grit my teeth during the

462
00:41:19.760 --> 00:41:22.320
tumble Bunny Show, even though I
would be delighted by it. Sure,

463
00:41:23.079 --> 00:41:25.760
sure, so you would do what
they said, but you'd be resentful,

464
00:41:27.199 --> 00:41:30.679
Yes, like so many things in
my life. Yeah, what would I

465
00:41:30.719 --> 00:41:34.480
do? I think I also probably
wouldn't have done if I had been explicitly

466
00:41:34.519 --> 00:41:37.119
told not to go do it.
Well, personally, I think that your

467
00:41:37.239 --> 00:41:42.000
charisma would have gotten you cast in
the tumble Bunny show, and then the

468
00:41:42.039 --> 00:41:45.599
show would have actually been pivoted around
you. No, no, no,

469
00:41:45.719 --> 00:41:51.599
those tumble Bunnies are the star.
Wow, they're so cute, spoken like

470
00:41:51.599 --> 00:41:53.800
the humble celebrity that you are.
Oh my god, baby, you can

471
00:41:53.880 --> 00:42:05.320
join my car. What is interesting? What is interesting? A question we

472
00:42:05.400 --> 00:42:12.760
ask what is interesting about these episodes? Well, it's interesting serendipity that happens

473
00:42:12.760 --> 00:42:15.760
by doing it this way, and
the fact that we have a Star Wars

474
00:42:15.800 --> 00:42:20.840
and the Star Trek this week,
and to a much lesser extent, tragic

475
00:42:20.880 --> 00:42:29.039
flute. But treating fear as some
sort of amorphous thing as opposed to an

476
00:42:29.079 --> 00:42:35.320
emotion that is experienced. Even though
Jack the Ripper I haven't really talked about

477
00:42:35.360 --> 00:42:37.880
the fact that Jack the Ripper is
in the episode, and he's known as

478
00:42:37.920 --> 00:42:42.800
Red Jack, and it is a
piece of cosmic horror that he goes.

479
00:42:43.920 --> 00:42:46.400
He can steal bodies and go into
the mind of the computer, he can

480
00:42:46.440 --> 00:42:52.679
become the computer. It's send a
terble lift into prefall either way. That's

481
00:42:53.079 --> 00:43:00.440
all of that, but more that
the show is interested in wishing fear as

482
00:43:02.000 --> 00:43:10.320
this other, this greater force that
is able to corrupt the sensibilities of those

483
00:43:10.360 --> 00:43:19.199
that encounter it, to do bad
things and trap people in their own actions.

484
00:43:20.559 --> 00:43:25.400
I I think you're mistaken though,
because only women get scared. You're

485
00:43:25.519 --> 00:43:30.079
right, yes, So I don't
think there's any overlap considering the boys of

486
00:43:30.119 --> 00:43:34.920
Ewoks got scared. There are a
bunch of boys and they are terrified.

487
00:43:35.960 --> 00:43:43.320
That sounds absurd to me. I
forgot whenever scared. Whenever the turba lifted

488
00:43:43.320 --> 00:43:45.239
a free fall, Kirk and Spock
just sat there across their arms and were

489
00:43:45.280 --> 00:43:49.800
like, I guess this is happening. They actually did, though, for

490
00:43:49.920 --> 00:43:52.880
what it's worth, they were never
once scared, and it did kind of

491
00:43:52.920 --> 00:43:55.000
piss me off a little bit.
Would have loved for people to be a

492
00:43:55.039 --> 00:44:00.880
little scared. But that's fine.
It's fine, it's fine, it's fine.

493
00:44:00.599 --> 00:44:06.800
I'm fine. You're right, though, strong overlap of like what what

494
00:44:07.159 --> 00:44:10.440
the dominating force of fear will do
to you? Can you speak more?

495
00:44:12.000 --> 00:44:17.639
Because cosmic Horror me. You want
me to speak someone who is just typically

496
00:44:17.760 --> 00:44:22.719
historically known to speak is so little. I'm sorry, I fucking talk so

497
00:44:22.840 --> 00:44:27.599
much. Thanks for loving me.
I love you so much, and we

498
00:44:27.679 --> 00:44:39.880
love you audience. Thanks for listening. But cosmic horror is such a blind

499
00:44:39.920 --> 00:44:44.480
spot for me. I think a
great deal of horror, and I think

500
00:44:44.519 --> 00:44:47.920
there is something interesting about the way
that both of these franchises, at least

501
00:44:47.920 --> 00:44:57.320
within this these two pieces are tackling
fear as an external thing. Although this

502
00:44:57.360 --> 00:45:00.719
will be there will be running motif
in Star Trek. I can't speak to

503
00:45:01.440 --> 00:45:05.480
Star Wars because you know, you're
the Star Wars contingent, but Star Trek

504
00:45:05.559 --> 00:45:13.559
will often time and time again encounter
un emotion as some sort of cosmic force.

505
00:45:14.400 --> 00:45:17.639
Here this week it's fear, and
this certainly won't be the only time

506
00:45:19.039 --> 00:45:28.400
where fear will manifest into something that
will be a threat to characters in your

507
00:45:28.440 --> 00:45:37.039
experience with cosmic horror and horror in
general personally personally, Yes, what do

508
00:45:37.119 --> 00:45:43.840
you know where these notions come from? What they're commenting on? Oh?

509
00:45:43.880 --> 00:45:49.320
Well, I interesting. I don't
I couldn't say anything with like from any

510
00:45:49.440 --> 00:45:57.719
research or learned perspective, but I
could make guesses. Yes, you know,

511
00:45:58.760 --> 00:46:07.840
I guess ah. I think cosmic
horror feels like a manifestation of just

512
00:46:07.880 --> 00:46:15.239
forces that are beyond your control,
which happens a lot through like the idea

513
00:46:15.519 --> 00:46:22.719
of just something so big that like
what could we do with this, which

514
00:46:22.800 --> 00:46:28.480
I'm sure has some basis and just
I'm sure it has like shared DNA with

515
00:46:30.519 --> 00:46:37.159
our belief in gods and religion and
trying to just explain the what feels unexplainable

516
00:46:37.239 --> 00:46:42.639
for us. That would be my
biggest guess. I mean, I you

517
00:46:42.679 --> 00:46:46.519
know, we think of Lovecraft,
who was the kind of cosmic horror king

518
00:46:47.440 --> 00:46:53.440
and sort of like the like the
bigness of it, like when you think

519
00:46:53.480 --> 00:47:00.559
of like a creature like a Cuthulu
or something that comes from the stars and

520
00:47:00.760 --> 00:47:06.400
is just so big that it's actually
too much for a human being to comprehend

521
00:47:06.480 --> 00:47:12.519
that it leads you to madness.
And so that absolute sense of just the

522
00:47:13.000 --> 00:47:17.599
fear of what can I even do
in the face of this thing, I

523
00:47:17.639 --> 00:47:22.440
would guess comes from this sense of
like just to be human in the world,

524
00:47:22.559 --> 00:47:25.239
you would often experience this, and
so we put it into those terms

525
00:47:25.280 --> 00:47:30.000
of it being like a creature,
just the bigness of things like you look

526
00:47:30.039 --> 00:47:35.760
at like if there's a creature like
a Cuthulhu, of like in the depths

527
00:47:35.800 --> 00:47:38.840
of the rolling sea, and the
ocean is such an unknown and a horrific

528
00:47:39.079 --> 00:47:45.960
concept and idea to give it sort
of a character as opposed to just the

529
00:47:46.079 --> 00:47:52.760
vastness of the sea, it almost
makes it both more understandable and then more

530
00:47:53.039 --> 00:47:59.400
terrifying because you have given it some
size in space that makes sense. It

531
00:47:59.440 --> 00:48:06.639
allows for the work to tackle fear
as a character and is able to dramatize

532
00:48:07.840 --> 00:48:13.679
something that is very difficult to dramatize
because you were just wrestling with emotions and

533
00:48:13.719 --> 00:48:16.880
instead, if you put it in
a red jack, if you put it

534
00:48:17.199 --> 00:48:23.719
in in Wicket's case, you were
able to catch all the bad dreams and

535
00:48:23.760 --> 00:48:29.760
then you're and then those bad dreams
are then you are then suffering the bad

536
00:48:29.800 --> 00:48:38.639
dreams. You are suffering the fear
with that, and you are tackling becoming

537
00:48:38.719 --> 00:48:46.159
responsible for having caused that fear and
learning how to be a responsible leader,

538
00:48:46.199 --> 00:48:52.079
and necess like a warrior isn't necessarily
just all excited with all the bravery aspects,

539
00:48:52.079 --> 00:48:59.639
but also just being responsible right as
well. We're in Star Trek's case,

540
00:49:00.199 --> 00:49:06.360
Yeah, literally just tackling fear.
And you know, they make calculate

541
00:49:06.440 --> 00:49:10.400
pie and then they're able to beam
it into space and destroy fear because you

542
00:49:10.440 --> 00:49:15.280
need an ending of your episode.
But the way that they use fear here

543
00:49:15.360 --> 00:49:21.719
is just kind of I don't know, seeing how it can pervert souls into

544
00:49:21.760 --> 00:49:24.480
doing dreadful things. We're not entirely
sure that Wolf of the Fold is saying

545
00:49:24.519 --> 00:49:28.960
anything other than let's have a rip
roaring adventure. That's a who done it

546
00:49:29.000 --> 00:49:34.559
on the enterprise and h so I
find whenever they get to the conference room

547
00:49:34.679 --> 00:49:39.079
and they're just doing light detector stuff. Meanwhile, Spock is there. Mind

548
00:49:39.119 --> 00:49:45.000
melds have been established and use more
than once, right, Yeah, and

549
00:49:45.039 --> 00:49:52.159
you're short changing yourself by having Spock
mind meld with the cosmic embodiment of fear.

550
00:49:52.000 --> 00:49:55.679
Oh, wouldn't that be fabulous?
It would But Shatner's ego, it's

551
00:49:55.719 --> 00:50:01.199
too big, not that even that
was even necessarily a story. Just you

552
00:50:01.239 --> 00:50:07.159
know, you're sure changing your opportunities
from having a uh meditation on fear,

553
00:50:07.239 --> 00:50:10.079
which not every episode needs to be
meditation. Sometimes it's just find that you

554
00:50:10.079 --> 00:50:13.960
have a little barn Burner adventure that's
a little who done it? Turned out

555
00:50:14.079 --> 00:50:19.840
it was Piglet, it was well, it was presumably that man's dead body

556
00:50:20.000 --> 00:50:23.039
being possessed by this thing, because
as soon as it left his body,

557
00:50:23.079 --> 00:50:30.079
he was dead, which I found
to be looking cool. I love that

558
00:50:30.280 --> 00:50:34.760
some like revenant shit. Soon like
I was just like, why is he

559
00:50:34.840 --> 00:50:37.159
dead? And I was like,
boh, it's because he was inhabbiting his

560
00:50:37.280 --> 00:50:43.880
dead body already. I love that. There's a lot of stuff in here

561
00:50:43.920 --> 00:50:46.639
that I really love because I love
spooky shit and I love who Done It?

562
00:50:47.000 --> 00:50:52.239
So and then also with Latara having
to learn the lesson of don't be

563
00:50:52.320 --> 00:50:59.760
a liar mm hmm, as opposed
to why bother being subtle whenever you can

564
00:50:59.800 --> 00:51:05.480
put the embodiment of the consequences of
lying into a big honk and crab,

565
00:51:06.159 --> 00:51:10.760
big honk and mustachioed crab. And
how speaking of Cuthulu, am I right?

566
00:51:12.559 --> 00:51:16.719
Truly? King Elbow one of the
most chilling characters in Star Wars?

567
00:51:17.159 --> 00:51:23.039
Yes, one, well, although
I would also say the characters that are

568
00:51:23.039 --> 00:51:29.880
in the like horror Hut, like
whatever they were, like those creatures were

569
00:51:30.039 --> 00:51:35.400
so fucking scary, Like Torville,
the main guy, Like what the fuck

570
00:51:35.480 --> 00:51:38.559
is he? Like? Just like
he's like he's a weird elongated like skull

571
00:51:38.679 --> 00:51:43.400
face. Like, sorry, got
it? Correct? You not Torville?

572
00:51:44.880 --> 00:51:47.239
I said Horrorville. I said Horrorville. He said Tolle. I said Horrville,

573
00:51:47.280 --> 00:51:52.800
and I said Rachel for hey,
I believe you, you believe me.

574
00:51:52.320 --> 00:51:55.519
I just thought that Horrorville was the
hammer Head. Oh is he a

575
00:51:55.559 --> 00:52:01.800
hammer That's very spooky to be different, But also, look, I've been

576
00:52:01.880 --> 00:52:07.039
using the they used the Force this
season once. Maybe they're just like we

577
00:52:07.039 --> 00:52:12.159
can use this other Star Wars element. Oh okay, that actually makes more

578
00:52:12.280 --> 00:52:15.000
sense to me. Like I was
just like creeped out by him. But

579
00:52:15.039 --> 00:52:22.000
then there were other monsters, sorry, beings, beings there was there was

580
00:52:22.039 --> 00:52:25.599
like there was one that also was
like could tell your future and they looked

581
00:52:25.599 --> 00:52:29.800
like a straight up like little green
man alien. And I was like,

582
00:52:29.880 --> 00:52:34.440
I do not like this. I
do not enjoy you, and that I

583
00:52:34.480 --> 00:52:37.960
do enjoy you because you're scaring the
shit out of me. What do you

584
00:52:38.119 --> 00:52:45.880
like? I like you, I
like scary things. I like kittens,

585
00:52:45.800 --> 00:52:52.400
I like okra. I like you
want me to just name some stuff?

586
00:52:53.360 --> 00:53:02.280
Or are you trying to segue me? Oh? You were trying to a

587
00:53:02.320 --> 00:53:07.639
long time ago. Started dating this
week, I quoted a boat. I

588
00:53:07.840 --> 00:53:13.800
dated a geek, but none of
them could warp my drive into high berth

589
00:53:13.920 --> 00:53:24.800
space. The best of both worlds
kept me in the second place. Captain's

590
00:53:24.920 --> 00:53:30.719
log on a hollow kron. I
wanted a sonog. I penned a song

591
00:53:31.559 --> 00:53:45.960
seventeen more minutes Advise in super high
Def aboard the USS Enterprize DT. Don't

592
00:53:45.960 --> 00:53:51.960
you take my walk lighter and clip
it? Don't you take my wretchered buddy

593
00:53:52.079 --> 00:53:55.239
and nip it? If you spill
the tea, I'm gonna sip it.

594
00:53:57.079 --> 00:54:02.599
I Starship it. I like to
starship it? Do you now? For

595
00:54:02.679 --> 00:54:07.960
folks that might just be listening to
this episode first, that'd be cool that

596
00:54:07.000 --> 00:54:12.000
if you're doing that first off shoot
us some message Instagram dot com, slash

597
00:54:10.960 --> 00:54:15.719
track, wars pod, or on
Blue Sky as well. Mail trekworsepot at

598
00:54:15.800 --> 00:54:21.000
gmail dot com let us know.
But for folks that might be listening to

599
00:54:21.039 --> 00:54:23.920
this episode very first, what the
heck is I starship it? Oh?

600
00:54:24.039 --> 00:54:28.960
Okay, and the starship it.
What we shall do is we will both

601
00:54:29.000 --> 00:54:35.320
identify our favorite starships slasher vehicles from
either property, and then we will discuss

602
00:54:35.400 --> 00:54:42.199
our favorite romantic ships from either property. Isn't that so clever? It is

603
00:54:42.280 --> 00:54:45.559
clever? You know what else is
clever meets uosing this first vehicle with King

604
00:54:45.599 --> 00:54:51.000
Elbow, Like, oh, Elbow
himself is the vehicle. Yeah, that

605
00:54:51.119 --> 00:54:54.559
was actually really clever because he can
push you in his body. That is

606
00:54:54.719 --> 00:54:59.840
very true. And if you were
to work out some sort of situation where

607
00:54:59.840 --> 00:55:04.400
you bording for some sort of transportation, I'm sure that King Elbow would be

608
00:55:04.480 --> 00:55:08.119
more than happy to help you out, just as long as you tell the

609
00:55:08.159 --> 00:55:15.239
truth. You drop your car in
there, It's like, is this your

610
00:55:15.320 --> 00:55:16.920
car? And I're like no.
Then he like pulls out and they're just

611
00:55:17.000 --> 00:55:21.519
like what if I just can I
just get in? You can? I

612
00:55:21.559 --> 00:55:24.960
can? I just get my dats
in? Please cool? I love that.

613
00:55:25.239 --> 00:55:30.320
I was considering the bubble that the
little fish makes. But you still

614
00:55:30.360 --> 00:55:35.679
can? I can? I can. But I'm going to be a little

615
00:55:35.880 --> 00:55:45.960
a little stinker and I'm going to
say people people as vehicles and we'll fall.

616
00:55:45.039 --> 00:55:50.320
Ryan was just making fun of us. Of no, this is valid,

617
00:55:50.400 --> 00:55:54.360
though I know it's valid. I
just know that Ryan hill Pass and

618
00:55:54.440 --> 00:55:59.239
future cast is going to be make
gonna pull his bike over and he's gonna

619
00:55:59.239 --> 00:56:06.960
freaking just flip is the middle finger
text message and make fun of us.

620
00:56:07.159 --> 00:56:13.000
That's fine if okay, just like
just bear with me, Just bear with

621
00:56:13.039 --> 00:56:20.039
me. I'm bearing the embodiment of
horror. Can literally literally embody itself by

622
00:56:20.199 --> 00:56:24.679
moving into a body and then can
move through the stars that by definition is

623
00:56:24.719 --> 00:56:34.800
a starship, and then get have
that same body transferred out into open space

624
00:56:35.360 --> 00:56:42.320
where it is clearly in the stars. Yeah, I'm telling you, that's

625
00:56:42.360 --> 00:56:45.880
fine. That's fine. Look at
us both being clever. Hey, hey

626
00:56:45.559 --> 00:56:52.559
look at us. Okay, those
are our vehicles killing it outstanding? But

627
00:56:52.039 --> 00:56:58.760
is still anyone's game. As we
move over to the relationship aspects, and

628
00:57:00.480 --> 00:57:02.960
in terms of shifts this week,
it's a pretty lightload. The one actual

629
00:57:04.119 --> 00:57:10.119
romantic couple that is textual is the
regent of our Galias two and his partner

630
00:57:10.199 --> 00:57:16.760
Sebo, which is pretty good.
It's serviceable. They seem to care about

631
00:57:16.760 --> 00:57:22.079
each other. He's very upset when
she's murdered. And then every time you

632
00:57:22.119 --> 00:57:29.360
say that, are you quoting Minority
Report. Yeah, I am quoting Olivia

633
00:57:29.400 --> 00:57:35.320
Coleman's character in Hot Fuzz Murder.
It doesn't mean it's murder. It's just

634
00:57:35.320 --> 00:57:40.400
the one killer. Actually, Yes, nothing like a little bit of girl

635
00:57:40.440 --> 00:57:47.840
on girl action. All right,
I will ship Jeris and SEBoK Jeris and

636
00:57:47.880 --> 00:57:55.039
Sebo whenever Sebo is murdered by red
Jack. Red Jack, he's pretty sad

637
00:57:55.159 --> 00:58:01.360
and he seems to love his wife
a bunch. Yeah. Look, there's

638
00:58:01.400 --> 00:58:04.800
a bunch of episodes of Start Truk, all right. Not every ship's going

639
00:58:04.880 --> 00:58:07.400
to be a winner. That actually
not related to that, but that brings

640
00:58:07.480 --> 00:58:10.760
up a fun little thing we didn't
really talk too much about, which is

641
00:58:10.840 --> 00:58:15.239
the I love this happens in Doctor
Who sometimes where you'll hear the kind of

642
00:58:15.280 --> 00:58:20.679
like word that actually is like sounds
like it's a different language, and maybe

643
00:58:20.719 --> 00:58:22.719
it is because it's become part of
the language, but it's actually like it's

644
00:58:22.760 --> 00:58:28.559
like she in the middle of that
sort of seance says like ragic. She

645
00:58:28.599 --> 00:58:31.199
says like three words. She says
like ragic, barness and caslac. But

646
00:58:31.239 --> 00:58:37.519
it's like ragic is red Jack and
that is so cool. I just really

647
00:58:37.639 --> 00:58:40.880
enjoyed that. And then that's how
they discover that he is in the body

648
00:58:42.079 --> 00:58:47.199
of Hingist or whatever because a baroness
was also a murder who was found murderer

649
00:58:47.239 --> 00:58:51.960
found on Rachel four. So it's
just a really great reveal. I loved

650
00:58:51.960 --> 00:58:57.000
it anyway. Good ship, my
ship, and I don't know has this

651
00:58:57.039 --> 00:59:00.760
ship been done before, because we
got a real, actual moment, a

652
00:59:00.880 --> 00:59:08.960
true moment after a season of longing. Latara just like puts one spills smackaro

653
00:59:09.159 --> 00:59:15.400
on Tebow's mouth. They just true, straight up kiss on the lips.

654
00:59:17.079 --> 00:59:22.039
We got wicked Latara, uh huh. But it doesn't look like we've got

655
00:59:22.119 --> 00:59:29.119
t Latara up here on This is
this is my moment, ah, This

656
00:59:29.239 --> 00:59:31.840
is your big old stinky moment.
This is my big old stinky moment Tebo

657
00:59:32.000 --> 00:59:37.679
and Latara. Uh yeah, Now
was that a romantic spooch or was that

658
00:59:37.760 --> 00:59:46.199
Latara just being excited for Tebo's there? I think it was a romantic smooch.

659
00:59:47.480 --> 00:59:53.119
I mean, I don't know Latara
is withholding emotionally, she's selfish,

660
00:59:53.159 --> 00:59:59.440
but she learned a really good lesson
and she really truly appreciated like Tebo carved

661
00:59:59.519 --> 01:00:04.639
that for her. And that's kind
of a real like eighties moment of just

662
01:00:04.760 --> 01:00:10.480
like, wow, this little dufuss
has been the one the whole time,

663
01:00:12.000 --> 01:00:16.159
the impression I was getting. But
also she's very busy and she owes no

664
01:00:16.239 --> 01:00:22.880
one anything. But I thought it
was very sweet, especially when he has

665
01:00:22.920 --> 01:00:24.800
been longing for so long, Like
it was a straight up kiss on the

666
01:00:24.880 --> 01:00:30.280
mouth, like we weren't like doing
any cutesy kisses. So I think there's

667
01:00:30.280 --> 01:00:36.199
some real power in that that makes
it a deserved space. Speaking of longing,

668
01:00:36.840 --> 01:00:39.320
I'm sure our listeners are longing to
find out which one we think is

669
01:00:39.320 --> 01:00:43.719
better. This week, Star Treker
Star Wars as we find it once for

670
01:00:43.800 --> 01:00:47.159
all answer the question which is better
by ranking once again Wolf in the Fall

671
01:00:47.199 --> 01:00:52.360
from Star Trek's the original series versus
Horrorville's Hut of Horrors and the Tragic Flute

672
01:00:52.440 --> 01:00:58.559
from Star Wars Ewoks. You might
go first, I will go first.

673
01:00:58.639 --> 01:01:05.960
I would give Wolf in the Full
the Six interesting. I don't like murder

674
01:01:05.960 --> 01:01:09.079
mysteries. I find them dreadfully dull. Oh okay, that explains it.

675
01:01:10.119 --> 01:01:13.599
That's so funny. Here I was, I'm sitting there. I mean,

676
01:01:13.639 --> 01:01:16.239
I obviously was like giving criticizing it, but I was like, I love

677
01:01:16.360 --> 01:01:22.239
murder mystery. I really do love
Knives Out and what I appreciate about Knives

678
01:01:22.239 --> 01:01:28.719
Out and also poker Face similarly,
Yes, is it? I guess I

679
01:01:28.800 --> 01:01:38.719
have to praise Colombo too. Just
one more thing, but those pieces really

680
01:01:40.079 --> 01:01:44.880
to me, as a who done
it? Outsider and a person that does

681
01:01:44.880 --> 01:01:47.119
not enjoy the genre, I have
all of the pieces there, and then

682
01:01:47.159 --> 01:01:52.719
it just becomes how do these characters
interact after that? As opposed to I

683
01:01:52.840 --> 01:01:59.719
just I think anything that is really
about murder is just dreadfully dull. I

684
01:01:59.760 --> 01:02:02.440
am so bored by it. It
feels like every single time something is about

685
01:02:02.440 --> 01:02:08.000
a murder, I know all of
the beats beforehand, and I just I

686
01:02:08.440 --> 01:02:12.199
cannot engage with it. Now.
I'm sure that there will be folks out

687
01:02:12.199 --> 01:02:15.440
there that can poke logic hoals in
there, and to you, I say,

688
01:02:15.599 --> 01:02:20.960
you are correct, absolutely, but
just murder stories will not be for

689
01:02:21.079 --> 01:02:25.119
me. Ever, that's fine.
You know what, I think we're gonna

690
01:02:25.119 --> 01:02:29.440
turn it lower. I'm actually gonna
put it up vive. Oh my god.

691
01:02:30.000 --> 01:02:36.360
Yeah, what a time to be
alive. And also the episode could

692
01:02:36.440 --> 01:02:42.159
have been not a choice coach,
but the entire conflict of the episode could

693
01:02:42.239 --> 01:02:46.400
have been resolved by Spock doing a
mind melt with Scottie immediately afterwards, even

694
01:02:46.480 --> 01:02:51.880
though we have we know that mind
melts at this point in Star Trek something

695
01:02:51.920 --> 01:03:00.159
that are very done rarely but extenuating
circumstances, crew members welfare is on the

696
01:03:00.280 --> 01:03:07.320
line as well as you know,
weddingjustice butt. Instead, the characters or

697
01:03:07.400 --> 01:03:10.800
the episode is obtuse because it has
to fill up the run time, right,

698
01:03:12.440 --> 01:03:15.119
it could have been an interesting sort
of conflict for it to kind of

699
01:03:15.199 --> 01:03:17.800
run into like cultural differences type of
thing where it was like which it was

700
01:03:17.840 --> 01:03:23.840
starting to get to a little bit
of like well we don't trust your ways,

701
01:03:23.920 --> 01:03:27.440
we have to do it our way. So it could have kind of

702
01:03:27.480 --> 01:03:30.400
gone in that direction of like what
becomes a valid thing that can hold up

703
01:03:30.599 --> 01:03:35.119
in a murder investigation, and we
don't trust your way. We only trust

704
01:03:35.119 --> 01:03:38.320
our way. So it could have
gone that direction, where like it would

705
01:03:38.320 --> 01:03:43.119
have been like if we could just
get him to spock this folcan, they'd

706
01:03:43.119 --> 01:03:45.159
be like, well, we won't
trust that because he can just say whatever

707
01:03:45.199 --> 01:03:49.920
he wants, like, you know, yeah, it could have been interesting,

708
01:03:50.000 --> 01:03:53.039
but it's interested in just being a
Jackler Ripper type style thing, where

709
01:03:54.079 --> 01:03:58.760
hey, if they had just done
a straightforward slasher on the enterprise, that

710
01:03:58.800 --> 01:04:03.480
could have been some good schlocky and
instead weird just kind of going around being

711
01:04:03.559 --> 01:04:09.400
like, seems like Scotty did it? I tell you, I don't remember.

712
01:04:10.199 --> 01:04:13.880
I mean it really did look like
Scotti dida. There's a lot that

713
01:04:13.920 --> 01:04:16.400
I think is problematic, a lot
that is annoying, a lot that is

714
01:04:16.440 --> 01:04:20.679
problematic. I do love a murder
mystery, though it fills me with great

715
01:04:20.920 --> 01:04:27.119
unimaginable joy, I will watch bullshit. So I think I have to weigh

716
01:04:27.119 --> 01:04:29.639
those two options. And in fact, I think what I wrote in my

717
01:04:29.800 --> 01:04:34.719
notes was basically like I am I
am torn between my anxiety. My anxiety

718
01:04:34.760 --> 01:04:40.960
around like orientalism and frustration and some
of the problems of this and my absolute

719
01:04:41.159 --> 01:04:45.920
love for Who Done It is so
because of that, I think it will

720
01:04:45.039 --> 01:04:48.840
become a seven point two for me, bringing the episode average out to a

721
01:04:48.880 --> 01:04:53.199
six point one. But it's still
anyone's game. As we go over to

722
01:04:53.239 --> 01:04:57.440
Horrorville's Hut of Horrors and the Tragical
Flute, I'll give it a robust seven.

723
01:04:57.880 --> 01:05:00.639
Does feel pretty high, you know
what? I like both of these

724
01:05:00.679 --> 01:05:06.360
episodes, straightforward, concise to the
point, have some fun adventures. We

725
01:05:06.440 --> 01:05:10.559
got King Elbow, what do you
want from me? Yeah? What else?

726
01:05:10.639 --> 01:05:11.800
What do you? What? What? What? What? What are

727
01:05:11.840 --> 01:05:13.280
you asking? What do you what? What? What? What? What?

728
01:05:13.400 --> 01:05:15.960
What? What? What? What
do you want to me? And

729
01:05:15.119 --> 01:05:20.159
he went from me, yeah,
let me go seven point six, seven

730
01:05:20.199 --> 01:05:28.480
point six outstanding, which means with
a collective total of seven point three versus

731
01:05:28.519 --> 01:05:30.719
Wolf in the Folds pal three six
point one. That means that asmen,

732
01:05:31.920 --> 01:05:41.800
I'm the winner. Not only did
Star Wars win, I also got to

733
01:05:41.800 --> 01:05:47.119
watch it Who'd Done It? It's
really it's like I've won. It's a

734
01:05:47.159 --> 01:05:51.880
great Sunday. It is a great
Sunday, and it's certainly because of you,

735
01:05:53.000 --> 01:05:58.000
and it's because of listeners out there
like you and Yeah, I'm talking

736
01:05:58.039 --> 01:06:01.599
to you right there. Oh sorry, God, sorry, show you to

737
01:06:01.639 --> 01:06:04.639
the listener out there. So why
don't you do me a favor. Stop

738
01:06:04.679 --> 01:06:10.239
what you're doing, pull over,
pause your bike, give us a little

739
01:06:10.280 --> 01:06:13.400
pat on the back, buy yourself
a little treat cause you're worth it,

740
01:06:13.760 --> 01:06:15.840
and then take a picture of that
treat. And take a picture of that

741
01:06:15.880 --> 01:06:19.760
backpad and send it on over to
Instagram dot com, slash track wars Pod

742
01:06:20.199 --> 01:06:25.360
or a blue Sky account also track
wars pod let us see, uh see

743
01:06:25.400 --> 01:06:29.880
what the heck you're rewarding yourself with. Additionally, send us an email trek

744
01:06:29.880 --> 01:06:33.239
Warspod at gmail dot com. If
you love this podcast so much, please

745
01:06:33.400 --> 01:06:38.320
hop on over to track warspod dot
com, click on the reviews tab and

746
01:06:38.400 --> 01:06:43.079
be directed to the podcaster over your
choice to leave a review. And finally,

747
01:06:43.880 --> 01:06:46.039
if you just love this podcast so
much you literally want to give up

748
01:06:46.079 --> 01:06:51.280
your heart earned cash to help us
pay the bills, then hop over to

749
01:06:51.280 --> 01:06:56.840
Patreon dot com. Slash track,
wars Pod and YouTube could join the ospices

750
01:06:56.920 --> 01:07:00.320
of fine folks such as timbo De
Sosa, Emily Bright, I Love,

751
01:07:00.360 --> 01:07:02.719
Heidi Rogers, Kevin Miller, Mark
Vibbert, Ryan Hill, and finally,

752
01:07:02.800 --> 01:07:09.280
Joel tea partner who composed our Wonderful
Eye starship, so thank you so much,

753
01:07:09.960 --> 01:07:15.440
and then also toasan Alfesso who composed
the fabulous trek Words theme. We

754
01:07:15.519 --> 01:07:19.360
did get a message from one of
our patrons this week on our Patreon,

755
01:07:19.559 --> 01:07:24.800
and I think on the podcast in
general, we asked people to send us

756
01:07:24.800 --> 01:07:30.519
selfies of them being unhappy, and
so too do we get a couple selfies

757
01:07:31.000 --> 01:07:35.880
from mister Ryan Hill, our patron. We very much thank you for sending

758
01:07:35.880 --> 01:07:40.880
in those selfies, and of course
we are taking selfies at any time,

759
01:07:41.480 --> 01:07:45.800
so just go ahead and send those
in by any means necessary. I asn't

760
01:07:45.880 --> 01:07:53.639
anything else before we call it a
night. The other night I was I

761
01:07:53.679 --> 01:07:56.360
saw a show with some people and
one one of them was like, let's

762
01:07:56.360 --> 01:08:00.960
take a selfie, and she did. She turned her phone so it was

763
01:08:00.039 --> 01:08:03.840
not the selfie camera. It was
the front facing camera of the phone,

764
01:08:03.880 --> 01:08:09.360
so we couldn't actually see ourselves,
and I genuinely was like, like a

765
01:08:09.760 --> 01:08:14.719
like a camera, like an old
school camera selfie. So if you want

766
01:08:14.719 --> 01:08:18.479
to take a selfie like that,
I would also not say no. Aspen,

767
01:08:18.600 --> 01:08:23.119
I love you, I love you
to you and listeners, we love

768
01:08:23.199 --> 01:08:27.039
you out there, may of course
be with you and live long and prosper,

769
01:08:27.560 --> 01:08:28.520
and also with you