Aug. 16, 2024

Plato's Stepchildren vs. Lair of Grievous

Plato's Stepchildren vs. Lair of Grievous

Dr. Tiffany L. Knoell, author of From Monk to Superhero: Genndy Tartakovsky’s Clone Wars and the Transformation of the Jedi, comes to talk to US! COME ON!

We talk about the definining relationships between Jedi as mediative monks versus badass power...

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Season 1

Dr. Tiffany L. Knoell, author of From Monk to Superhero: Genndy Tartakovsky’s Clone Wars and the Transformation of the Jedi, comes to talk to US! COME ON!

We talk about the definining relationships between Jedi as mediative monks versus badass power fantasy. We talk about Parmen's fascist dictatorship within the context of 2024. We talk about Plato's Stepchildren's famous KISS. And animation is a medium, not a genre.

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WEBVTT

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Welcome to the Trek Wars Podcast, the Internet's exclusive source

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for trying to answer the one question, the most important

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question in fandom, which is better Star Trek or Star

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Wars by going through both franchises in chronological release order.

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I am Kenny Madison of the Star Trek contingent and

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with me as per always as the co host with

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the mo host.

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It's me asked in Webster, you're Star Wars best friend.

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But perhaps best friends might be at each other's throats today,

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but not necessarily under their own control, as we cover

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no step children, a perfectly normal and chill episode. So

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I start Trek the original series season three versus Layer

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of Grievous from Star Wars to Clone Wars season one.

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Or as I like to put it, when I just

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was telling my partner about it, a totally creepy why

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oh sorry, sorry, are you looking at.

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Me like that?

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Are you looking at me like that? Guinny, why are

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you doing the dog thing?

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Oh?

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It's because it's Joel, my partner, my sweet boy partner. Today,

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I said, Layer of Grievous a super super creepy episode

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which I loved and played a step children, a super

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creepy episode that I was not feeling great about emotionally

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and physically.

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But something that we are feeling pretty dark right about.

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We have a fabulous special guest on our episode, the

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associate teaching professor from the Department of Popular Culture at

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Bowling Green State University and published author in the trance

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media of a Star Wars Universe. Please welcome doctor Tiffany L.

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Noel to the podcast.

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You still have on mute?

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I can't. I can't unmute you. I can't. You gotta

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collect the on mute button. Doctor nolt you on mute?

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Wow, I can't believe still on mute. Listen, listen. This

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is Kenny. This is Kenny silencing women. So don't worry

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about him.

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Now. If you've got to mute somebody, Kenny, you really

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should tell them in advance. I'm going to mute you now.

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You're You're not wrong, You're not wrong in doctor.

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Oh my god, this is the coolest.

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Thank you so much for having me on.

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I am super poleased as punch, especially considering that first

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came upon your work because you are one of the

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few published authors that are bothered to talk about Gandy

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Tartakowski's Clone Wars in a meaningful manner. There's a whole

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bunch of people out there that are just like, did

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you know that there's actually the secret two D clone

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Wars TV shows that's actually like pretty good, And you're

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one of the few authors that is actually engaging with

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the tax and trying to drive some greater meaning of it,

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what it represents for the Star Wars franchise and what

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it represents for I don't know where Star Wars was

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contextually within the landscape of two thousand and three two

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thousand and four TV aimed for kids.

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Yeah, now, before you get too excited about my contributions,

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I would really like to give mention to the editors

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of that particular collection, doctor Derek Sweet and oh god,

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we changed other editors in the middle of it all,

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and of course my book is in the other room.

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I believe his name is Dominic Nardi. We had a

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different editor, so I had to just say, okay.

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Can say it is right here. I've got it pulled

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up right here.

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Oh I passed.

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Look at that passed.

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Also, what a gracious thing to do, like as as

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part of the whole comprehensive effort toward the thing.

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Well, Derek and I have known each other since the

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mid nineteen nineties, when we met in of all things,

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a Star Trek chat based role playing game on MSN

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YEP which then we had an offshoot that was also

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Star Wars related, And since Derek is much more Star

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Wars than Star Trek, well, they've known each other for

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a very long time. And I can honestly say that

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man is my obi wan. He got me through not

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only the entirety of graduate school, but like I said,

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we've been friends for almost thirty years now, and.

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So it's to your responsibility that you're like, in order

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to preserve this friendship, I.

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Must have made you. Actually, it's not that at all.

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I believe in giving credit where it is due.

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Oh yes, this is good. This is good. That's better

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because I never give Kenny any credit.

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Its rightfully, So no, it's not true. I haven't learned it.

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No, he's wonderfully. He's wonderful. That is fabulous. So okay,

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wait before because this is glorious because Kenny's intro of you, uh,

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the fact that the way he said it is like, oh,

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this is one of the people who You're one of

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the people who's actually talking about Tartakovsky in a specific way.

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But the very fact that you are getting to write

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papers and do any kind of research at all around

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star Wars or any of these things that we would

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be like, Ah, this is a nerdy joy of mine,

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I think is extraordinary.

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Like, well, then I'm going to blow your mind one

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more time. I am one of the few published academics

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who's done any work with animaniacs.

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Oh my god, we love to see it.

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Thank you for your service. We really appreciate it.

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And I'm currently under contract with Bloomberry Books or Bloomberry

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Publishing for a book called History and Temporal Tourism, plotting

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individual paths for the past. So yes, I write about

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time travel my favorite thing.

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That's your favorite thing?

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Time travel is my favorite thing.

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Are you married?

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He's on my maor you're kidding me? Co' maried a

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time travel like ghosts time travel partner.

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Well, as it turns out, I've taught history in the coliseum,

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I've had lunch at Stonehenge, and I was photographed outside

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a rather recognizable large blue telephone box outside of a

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tube station in London a few years ago.

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So weird. So will oh just a police box, just

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a regular police box.

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It was just standing out there with my trench coat.

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No big, we'd love to see it. Oh this is so,

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this is great, you are okay, this is a joy.

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Look at what we've done, what we've done, what we did.

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So that means I think, you know, typically we'll ask

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people who come on as Gas will be like, hey,

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you know, how did you first become going to with

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Star Wars with Star Trek. What's your experience? But I

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do actually think we need to start with the more

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important question, which is which is better Star Wars with

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Star Trek. I think because art is a binary and

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you have to pick one.

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Or the other, I reject your question and instead stick

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with the fact that I tend to be multi denominational,

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a fantheist, if we're going to put it in that

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term when it comes to the media, the media galaxy.

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Oh yeah, Kenny, do you.

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Hear that.

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Is a very Star Trek answer. And I appreciate that

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doctor Nole is saying Star Trek in roundabout way, so

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thank you for that.

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Okay, it sounds like perhaps it's far Wait wait, wait,

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this is a Star Trek. It's a little, it's little,

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very it's Star Trek. There is Star Wars.

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It's a Delta.

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It's a Delta. Wait, do you have a Star Wars

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tattoo too? Do you have a Star Wars tattoo too?

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I do not, but I have a lightsaber on my

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wall that I received as a graduation gift from my

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gaming brothers.

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Okay, doctor Nols, me likes me better, so I like,

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this is about who you like better?

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Well, let me also just point out I am an

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emeritus member of the five hundred and first Legion. I

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had my Imperial Officer number and got out of that

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hobby when I started graduate school.

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Sure were great time.

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We're having a great time.

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Yeah, So I would say Star Trek for something, Star

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Wars for other things. But I'm gonna be that right

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in the middle. I like them both.

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My secret responses love it us too. My official response is,

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oh god, how dare you?

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That's me out here? So in discord making things uncomfy,

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let's go, oh gosh, Okay, what did we start?

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What's your relationship with both properties? You grow up with it,

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come to it later in life, because I literally grew

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up with both of them to the point where I

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literally don't remember a first time watching it. That's where

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my start point is.

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Where it makes sense for me. I grew up with

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science fiction just pretty much from the jump what my

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my father. My father was the person who introduced me

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to the gateway drug of night nineteen seventies. And no,

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it wasn't Star Wars, okay, it was Buck Rogers, that's

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okay with in the eighties. Was more of a heroin time, okay. No,

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I grew up on Buck Rogers and the original Battlestar Galactica.

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I watched The Empire Strikes Back in the Theater very good.

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I actually just got done doing a watch through with

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that with my son, my oldest. Now, I saw Empire

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Strikes Back in the theater just before my youngest sister

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was born, so I was there for that. And then

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when it comes to Star Trek, I really didn't discover

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Star Trek until the late nineteen eighties. So next gen

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ex Yes, I was a next gen kid. But in

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addition to all of that, I've done my fair amount

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of line sitting. In fact, if you do any research

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into author Brian Young, it's b R yam Young. Brian

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and I were in line to see Phantom Menace and

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we started and we started a presence there camp out

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a month before.

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Oh my gosh, oh jeez, Louise.

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After that, when it came to attack of the Clones,

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we set up tents. We were there for about two

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weeks off and on. Now, please don't think I didn't

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just I was not just staying there the whole time.

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We swapped people out because that's the sensible thing to

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do here, very clever.

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But oh gosh, oh.

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Wow, yeah, I've I was at sea. I was at

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the original Star Wars celebration as oh that at that point,

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I was covering it for the newspaper that I was

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writing for at the time.

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And yeah, yes, because you said, you this is your

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third career, you started, we're dark.

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I started at age sixteen as a freelance journalist. I

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literally walked into a field office of a mid sized

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daily news paper, gave them my sophomore era clips, and

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they said, hired, here's your camera, here's the word rate,

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here's your assignment.

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Go oh my gosh, Peter Parker.

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So there was that, And then in between starting as

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a journalist and getting out of the field and then

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starting college, I developed the skill set for working in

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graphic design and web development, and I did that as

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a business from nineteen ninety seven until twenty twelve.

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Oh my god, nice, very cool.

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And in the meantime with all of that, I had

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three children. All of my kids are grown and gone,

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but yeah, they they they definitely had a hand in everything.

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So yeah, oh, and you said, you just got finished

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watching Battlestar Galactica with one of your with one of

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your kids, your son, and then when you have the

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eldest and then you have a live stream with your daughter,

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the eldest daughter, eldest daughter, and then your other any

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cool things you've done with your other child who's not

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a child.

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We also ended up adopting another one, so she falls

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in between the first two and the ys. Nice, Yes,

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I do have four children, but no, it's it's wonderful

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because I'm married a nerd.

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Yes.

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In fact, he has his Imperial guardrobes and that wonderful,

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wonderful helmet. So yes, he was also trooping for the

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five of First and the Alpine Garrison, which was our

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local when we lived back in Utah. And yeah, that's

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our entire house is like this. Every member of our family,

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from the husband and the children to the house biking

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to everybody.

235
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Well, this is great, this is a gold mine before

236
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before we get into lay Grieves Versus place, make no mistake.

237
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We will you sure, we could just keep doing it interview.

238
00:14:04.639 --> 00:14:07.879
We will. Well, what I'm interested about is for folks

239
00:14:07.919 --> 00:14:11.720
set up not read the book the transmedia franchise of

240
00:14:11.720 --> 00:14:17.159
Star Wars TV, which I found quite easily on unfortunately Amazon.

241
00:14:17.399 --> 00:14:21.159
So sorry, but okay, so that's cool.

242
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You don't.

243
00:14:24.320 --> 00:14:26.320
Sorry. I'll send it to you. I'll send you some money.

244
00:14:26.320 --> 00:14:29.000
I'll bet money. Right now, can you talk.

245
00:14:28.879 --> 00:14:32.759
A little bit about your about your piece that you contributed,

246
00:14:33.480 --> 00:14:37.080
which is titled from Monk to Superhero Gendy Tartakovski's Clone

247
00:14:37.080 --> 00:14:41.039
Wars and the Transformation of the Jedi. It's it's great,

248
00:14:41.120 --> 00:14:41.519
it's great.

249
00:14:42.960 --> 00:14:46.399
Well, this research paper started out in the same way

250
00:14:46.440 --> 00:14:48.279
that a lot of research papers start when you're in

251
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grad school. That's something that I was writing for a class,

252
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which I then took to a conference and the Popular

253
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Culture Association National Annual Conference. Yeah, there is such a thing.

254
00:15:02.720 --> 00:15:03.559
It's fantastic.

255
00:15:04.000 --> 00:15:07.279
Oh my gosh, I was like not in these cool

256
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spaces when I was in grad school.

257
00:15:10.639 --> 00:15:13.639
Yeah, you're a fellow grad school survivor social work.

258
00:15:14.600 --> 00:15:19.080
Oh oh yeah, I was like, let me write some miracle,

259
00:15:19.240 --> 00:15:22.200
let me write some papers on abortion access. It'd be sad.

260
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No quite Frankly, That's how a lot of things start.

261
00:15:26.399 --> 00:15:30.639
So when it comes to this, I, in case you've

262
00:15:30.919 --> 00:15:34.000
not picked up on this, I also really love animation.

263
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In fact, my bachelor's thesis and my master's thesis were

264
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looking at Warner Brothers animation from the nineteen thirties as

265
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historical documents. So when you've got a love of animation

266
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and you've got a class where you're taken a superhero

267
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class and you don't want to write about Superman or

268
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a wonder Woman or Wolverine or any of that, Yeah,

269
00:16:00.200 --> 00:16:03.480
something that worked for me, and that was looking at

270
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the way in which Jendi Tarakowski chose to change the

271
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nature of the Jedi, reflecting a lot of what we've

272
00:16:09.879 --> 00:16:14.360
been seeing in the earlier prequel films in Phantom Menace

273
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an Attack of the Clones, where you've got the much

274
00:16:16.120 --> 00:16:21.519
more athletic Jedi, but then also being able to take

275
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that into animation and draw on his Samurai Jack experience,

276
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draw on some of the other works that he's done,

277
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and ultimately produce something that is brief, that is fast paced,

278
00:16:35.080 --> 00:16:40.000
that is immediately attention grabbing, and yet it was also

279
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recognizable because audiences at the time were very familiar with

280
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his style. The fact of the matter is, you've got

281
00:16:47.919 --> 00:16:52.960
all of this going on here, but what most people

282
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wanted to do was to be able to sell toys.

283
00:16:57.120 --> 00:17:01.080
So these functioned as commercials in the sense, given that

284
00:17:01.840 --> 00:17:04.240
they were just about to have Revenge of the Sith

285
00:17:04.279 --> 00:17:08.839
come out, it behooved audience, or excuse me, behooved lucasfilm

286
00:17:08.960 --> 00:17:12.240
to not only keep Star Wars in the public eye,

287
00:17:12.480 --> 00:17:19.440
but also then to be able to start selling toys. Now,

288
00:17:19.440 --> 00:17:21.640
if they would have actually paid attention to the ladies

289
00:17:21.680 --> 00:17:23.880
a little bit more, that would have been good. But

290
00:17:24.039 --> 00:17:26.079
that's always kind of been Star Wars' problem.

291
00:17:26.920 --> 00:17:32.759
Yeah, classic, I's someone who was a child when Phantom

292
00:17:32.799 --> 00:17:36.720
Menace came out. I was. I was a desperate toy

293
00:17:36.799 --> 00:17:40.200
collector at the time. I scoured those toys RS's and

294
00:17:40.240 --> 00:17:42.319
I was very I was glad to have whatever I wanted,

295
00:17:42.319 --> 00:17:43.480
but whatever I could get.

296
00:17:43.559 --> 00:17:47.680
But yeah, there's a reason that I made a point

297
00:17:47.839 --> 00:17:50.559
of gathering all of the female action figures that I

298
00:17:50.599 --> 00:17:57.480
possibly could for my youngest child, because they were not

299
00:17:57.519 --> 00:18:00.759
going to have the same access to characters that they

300
00:18:00.759 --> 00:18:02.680
could relate to. I mean they've since come out as

301
00:18:02.680 --> 00:18:08.440
trans but anyway, yeah, yeah, In fact, I had to

302
00:18:08.480 --> 00:18:11.119
do a bit of a cleanup on the shelf back there.

303
00:18:11.359 --> 00:18:15.960
But if there was a female Jedi figure that came out,

304
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I picked it up. The only one I haven't been

305
00:18:19.279 --> 00:18:26.359
able to source yet is Joe Casten Knew, who doesn't

306
00:18:26.400 --> 00:18:27.559
have a Jedi librarian.

307
00:18:27.720 --> 00:18:34.000
I mean really love her. We also love we love her. Well,

308
00:18:34.039 --> 00:18:35.880
if it's not in the archives, it doesn't exist.

309
00:18:37.039 --> 00:18:38.960
Well, okay, so she was. She had a little bit

310
00:18:39.000 --> 00:18:43.960
of that academic arrogance, which but so much when she

311
00:18:44.240 --> 00:18:50.880
confronts Vader after Order sixty six has been executed. So, yeah,

312
00:18:51.079 --> 00:18:52.839
she this is in the comics.

313
00:18:52.880 --> 00:18:54.440
It's in the comics. Yeah I haven't read that.

314
00:18:54.519 --> 00:18:55.640
Oh I knew about this.

315
00:18:55.720 --> 00:18:59.359
Yeah, she confronts Vader in the ARCA, just saying you're

316
00:18:59.359 --> 00:19:01.279
not supposed to be here. Leave.

317
00:19:02.960 --> 00:19:06.359
Yeah, she's she's really got she's got that fire.

318
00:19:07.720 --> 00:19:10.559
You never piss off a librarian. Yeah, God, it's like

319
00:19:11.640 --> 00:19:15.039
you don't piss off archivists either. They know where everything's buried.

320
00:19:16.079 --> 00:19:19.559
Jedi and a librarian. Come on, yes, well they know

321
00:19:19.599 --> 00:19:22.839
everything's buried and they can bury you.

322
00:19:22.880 --> 00:19:28.039
So, speaking of librarians, I think it's time that we

323
00:19:28.079 --> 00:19:31.519
dive into the text that we are talking about again,

324
00:19:31.759 --> 00:19:36.279
Plano's Snap Children versus Layer of grievous. I will give

325
00:19:36.319 --> 00:19:39.759
the synopsis for folks that are playing the home game, the.

326
00:19:40.039 --> 00:19:41.759
People playing the home game, and people who are not

327
00:19:41.759 --> 00:19:43.839
playing the home game. Just to be clear, Kenny doesn't

328
00:19:43.880 --> 00:19:44.920
understand what the terms.

329
00:19:45.160 --> 00:19:49.200
I do understand people that are not participating in the

330
00:19:49.240 --> 00:19:52.279
main thing, and they're participating in the ancillary properties.

331
00:19:52.359 --> 00:19:53.480
All right, it's.

332
00:19:53.319 --> 00:19:56.119
A home game. You can't you can't go on the prices, right,

333
00:19:56.839 --> 00:19:59.480
and so you play the price is right at home. Similarly,

334
00:19:59.519 --> 00:20:03.480
people can't watch the things for some reason. We give

335
00:20:03.599 --> 00:20:06.440
brief synopsies so they could play the ancillary property. I

336
00:20:06.440 --> 00:20:08.319
think it scales perfectly. O.

337
00:20:08.440 --> 00:20:14.480
Good, Well, we'll see that.

338
00:20:14.559 --> 00:20:18.880
I think it scales perfectly. I'm a good little boy.

339
00:20:19.119 --> 00:20:19.960
Here we go.

340
00:20:20.240 --> 00:20:22.599
I have a guest here, so I'm not saying.

341
00:20:22.680 --> 00:20:26.119
Anything interesting, so that that's a clear, clear indictment that

342
00:20:26.160 --> 00:20:30.680
I am very wrong. Anyways, Entertainment columnists and critic Steven

343
00:20:30.759 --> 00:20:35.039
ain't sure from his syndicated tvkey previews, as carried in

344
00:20:35.079 --> 00:20:38.759
the Wisconsin State Journal, Madison, Wisconsin on November twenty second,

345
00:20:39.240 --> 00:20:42.559
is synopsis for Plato Step Children Goes. Fans of this

346
00:20:42.680 --> 00:20:46.039
series who appreciate imaginative flights of fancy and their science

347
00:20:46.039 --> 00:20:50.920
fiction will enjoy this visit with the spurious worshipers of Plato. Actually,

348
00:20:51.000 --> 00:20:54.119
this group of beings are lovers of force rather than democracy,

349
00:20:54.359 --> 00:20:57.440
particularly when using the kinds of power they possess. All

350
00:20:57.480 --> 00:20:59.759
they have to do to assure their will over others

351
00:20:59.799 --> 00:21:03.839
is will it through psychotelkinetic energy, which projects their thoughts

352
00:21:03.839 --> 00:21:06.960
into powerful action. Tune in for Michael Dunn's fear of

353
00:21:06.960 --> 00:21:10.599
reprisal as Alexander the Plutonian's court jester, and for the

354
00:21:10.640 --> 00:21:13.960
imprisoned anger of Kirk, Spock and McCoy before they discover

355
00:21:14.079 --> 00:21:17.359
how to become masters of their own fate as grab

356
00:21:17.400 --> 00:21:21.960
on to Something, Oh okay, Leonard Nimoy grab onto something

357
00:21:21.960 --> 00:21:26.559
but excitedly uh. Leonard Niemoy also sings his own song

358
00:21:26.640 --> 00:21:31.880
Tonight Maiden Wine didn't realize there was this son not

359
00:21:31.880 --> 00:21:38.039
not just written for the show it Leonard. It's a

360
00:21:38.039 --> 00:21:43.000
bit of cross promotion for his fourth album my god,

361
00:21:43.240 --> 00:21:45.880
love that man. The sixties, you love it.

362
00:21:46.240 --> 00:21:48.279
I love them with all of my heart. And soul

363
00:21:51.319 --> 00:21:58.039
is squeazy beautiful. When did it come out and who

364
00:21:58.079 --> 00:22:01.799
directed it? Aspen, I'm just curious. I'm so right, I

365
00:22:01.799 --> 00:22:06.279
don't even know who wrote it. Who wrote it?

366
00:22:06.279 --> 00:22:09.960
It was aired November twenty second, nineteen sixty eight. Writer

367
00:22:11.599 --> 00:22:14.119
Meyer Dolinsky, director David Alexander.

368
00:22:15.119 --> 00:22:16.920
When did so It's funny? I know a number of

369
00:22:17.000 --> 00:22:20.519
twenty second? Sixty three was a Kennedy assassination. Now I'm

370
00:22:20.519 --> 00:22:24.119
like sixty eight. When was the rfk MKA assassination?

371
00:22:25.440 --> 00:22:28.599
Notoriously, nineteen sixty eight. Eight is a chill year in

372
00:22:28.839 --> 00:22:29.680
the United States.

373
00:22:29.799 --> 00:22:32.079
Yeah, we've brought this up before. I just heard November

374
00:22:32.079 --> 00:22:33.880
twenty second. I thought of assassinations again.

375
00:22:34.200 --> 00:22:35.519
That's chill, A.

376
00:22:35.519 --> 00:22:39.160
Chill time for everybody to watch. Plato Step Children, a

377
00:22:39.240 --> 00:22:44.480
very unchill episode. Excellent layer of Grievous, very exciting Star Wars,

378
00:22:44.559 --> 00:22:46.559
the Clone Wars Layer of Grievous, which I just want

379
00:22:46.599 --> 00:22:49.200
to say, I'm very excited to hear doctor and all

380
00:22:49.240 --> 00:22:53.079
year your take on Tartakovski versus this version of Clone Wars.

381
00:22:53.200 --> 00:22:56.480
Oh so excited. So I will say lay of Grievas.

382
00:22:57.039 --> 00:22:59.720
December twelfth, two thousand and eight, was when it was released.

383
00:23:00.119 --> 00:23:04.599
And then we have director at Sushi Teka Ucci. The

384
00:23:04.640 --> 00:23:08.559
writer of this is Henry Gilroy. I'm just gonna go

385
00:23:08.559 --> 00:23:10.880
with a little bit of a shorter from TV Archeologist

386
00:23:10.960 --> 00:23:11.640
on IMDb.

387
00:23:11.960 --> 00:23:13.079
Thank you a K.

388
00:23:13.200 --> 00:23:17.880
Fisto. First appearance of Fisto on this version of The

389
00:23:17.880 --> 00:23:20.599
Clone Wars is on the trail of the recently escaped

390
00:23:20.720 --> 00:23:22.880
newt Gun Ray because this is the third of a

391
00:23:22.920 --> 00:23:25.839
three part arc, and joins up with this former padawan

392
00:23:25.920 --> 00:23:30.319
Nadar Veb on the remote planet of bask Unknown to them,

393
00:23:30.400 --> 00:23:33.599
they are entering the layer of General Gravis, who is

394
00:23:33.640 --> 00:23:36.799
being tested in his abilities by Count Dooku after a

395
00:23:36.839 --> 00:23:42.640
series of disappointments in Battle A Glorious, Glorious.

396
00:23:42.039 --> 00:23:47.480
Time for All and Atsushi Takauchi his only episode that

397
00:23:47.559 --> 00:23:51.480
he directs for Star Wars The Clone Wars. He is

398
00:23:51.519 --> 00:23:54.519
a development artist within Star Wars The Clone Wars and

399
00:23:54.519 --> 00:23:57.079
then also just a prolific artist with an anime. You

400
00:23:57.160 --> 00:23:59.240
might have seen some of his work in Appleseed X

401
00:23:59.240 --> 00:24:06.119
Machina and a thing called Ghost in the Shell. Y'all, Yeah,

402
00:24:06.200 --> 00:24:09.000
David Alexander, the director played a step children, was a

403
00:24:09.039 --> 00:24:13.039
first time Star Trek director because they are cutting the

404
00:24:13.079 --> 00:24:16.240
budget significantly and so they couldn't go to a lot

405
00:24:16.279 --> 00:24:20.319
of their original Star Trek directors, the ones that helped develop,

406
00:24:20.400 --> 00:24:23.480
because they were too expensive, and they went over and

407
00:24:23.480 --> 00:24:26.799
so David Alexander, they went to him and they were like,

408
00:24:27.000 --> 00:24:29.119
you got to get this in on time, and they

409
00:24:29.119 --> 00:24:32.559
still went over because again, just at this point, just

410
00:24:32.599 --> 00:24:36.359
to re establish NBC was to purposely torpedo Star Trek.

411
00:24:38.000 --> 00:24:42.480
Great Reverend Time, Good Time. It's two thousand and eight.

412
00:24:42.720 --> 00:24:45.559
On the other side of things, just like to say.

413
00:24:45.480 --> 00:24:48.400
Both of these episodes are chill normal times.

414
00:24:48.480 --> 00:24:50.480
We're having a chill normal time. Can I just chose

415
00:24:50.480 --> 00:24:53.359
those thame really quickly? Slightly off topic about the year

416
00:24:53.400 --> 00:24:55.039
two thousand and eight or the year two thousand and seven?

417
00:24:55.440 --> 00:24:58.400
Bad years? Well two eight good for somebody's like thous seven.

418
00:24:58.440 --> 00:25:01.519
I feel like a bad year. Very anxious here, mostly

419
00:25:01.559 --> 00:25:03.880
just because we just watched the fourth Diehard movie and

420
00:25:03.880 --> 00:25:05.440
that one came out in two thousand and seven, and

421
00:25:05.480 --> 00:25:10.319
I just really don't like the odds. But that's just

422
00:25:10.359 --> 00:25:16.359
neither here nor there, so any so doctional very curious

423
00:25:16.359 --> 00:25:19.000
from you. I feel like I've been throwing in my

424
00:25:19.079 --> 00:25:22.400
little thoughts on these being not very chill episodes. What

425
00:25:22.480 --> 00:25:25.279
are what were your first impressions either of them? Or

426
00:25:25.279 --> 00:25:26.480
where do you want to start?

427
00:25:26.759 --> 00:25:27.960
I was going to say which one do you want

428
00:25:27.960 --> 00:25:28.720
me to go with first?

429
00:25:28.920 --> 00:25:31.519
Which everyone feels like it's like you're feeling it in

430
00:25:31.559 --> 00:25:32.000
your soul.

431
00:25:32.200 --> 00:25:34.839
Personally, I think you should go with Layer of Grievous

432
00:25:34.880 --> 00:25:37.519
and then go to Plato Step Children, because right, is

433
00:25:37.680 --> 00:25:39.720
not just a worry about shape of show, because I

434
00:25:39.759 --> 00:25:40.839
worry about shape of show.

435
00:25:41.039 --> 00:25:41.960
I worry about your soul.

436
00:25:42.000 --> 00:25:45.920
But that's what I understand. Yeah, so Layer of Grievous

437
00:25:45.920 --> 00:25:46.799
and Plato step Field.

438
00:25:47.000 --> 00:25:52.000
Yes, okay, Well, as it turns out, I did actually

439
00:25:52.680 --> 00:25:55.960
watch all three episodes in that art, and we do.

440
00:25:56.640 --> 00:25:59.000
I could make certain well, yeah you did, because it's

441
00:25:59.000 --> 00:26:02.960
your job, but no, I did it because I wanted

442
00:26:03.000 --> 00:26:06.400
to ensure that I had all of the additional context

443
00:26:06.480 --> 00:26:09.160
that would go along with it, because that's one of

444
00:26:09.200 --> 00:26:11.279
the big things that I think Clone Wars was good

445
00:26:11.279 --> 00:26:15.359
at developing multi episode arcs, which is really funny when

446
00:26:15.400 --> 00:26:19.799
you've got an entire group of people who want fite

447
00:26:19.839 --> 00:26:24.240
size episodes you know, just here's an episode, and here's

448
00:26:24.279 --> 00:26:29.200
an episode not Clone Wars. They decided to do something

449
00:26:29.279 --> 00:26:35.319
a little bit different. Oh little arks, Yes, so here

450
00:26:35.359 --> 00:26:38.839
we go at Pisto. One of the things I really

451
00:26:38.880 --> 00:26:41.519
do like about the way that this episode starts is

452
00:26:41.559 --> 00:26:44.240
the idea of most powerful as he who controls his

453
00:26:44.279 --> 00:26:49.640
own power, right, and that is they were good to

454
00:26:49.680 --> 00:26:54.640
stay on that that entire weight through. I really liked

455
00:26:54.720 --> 00:26:58.119
seeing the jump ring along with the Jedi star Fighter.

456
00:26:58.880 --> 00:27:03.920
That was something that we started seeing with Attack the Clones. Yeah, oh,

457
00:27:04.039 --> 00:27:10.920
let's see other thoughts on the matter. There were enough

458
00:27:11.000 --> 00:27:15.599
things like somebody should have said it's a trap. I

459
00:27:15.680 --> 00:27:22.880
have a bad feeling about this is there because who

460
00:27:22.960 --> 00:27:27.480
needs legs? But I would say that finding out that

461
00:27:27.599 --> 00:27:34.039
Darth Grievs had a Grievous excuse me? He wishes Well,

462
00:27:34.039 --> 00:27:36.559
that's the whole point of this episode, isn't it. Yes,

463
00:27:36.839 --> 00:27:40.200
are you worthy to be a s? And the answer

464
00:27:40.319 --> 00:27:41.599
is probably not.

465
00:27:42.240 --> 00:27:44.359
Yeah.

466
00:27:44.599 --> 00:27:48.440
I was pleasantly reminded that Grievous has a dog or

467
00:27:48.519 --> 00:27:54.880
had a dot that big pet. Oh, yes, the big

468
00:27:54.920 --> 00:27:59.440
guy the things called gore Gore. Yeah, that's his dog.

469
00:28:00.039 --> 00:28:02.400
S far as I'm concerned, that it's supposed to guard

470
00:28:02.400 --> 00:28:06.519
the place when he calls. I mean, the only thing

471
00:28:06.519 --> 00:28:08.440
he wasn't doing was wagging a tail and trying to

472
00:28:08.480 --> 00:28:11.519
fetch except well, no, he was trying to fetch Jedi.

473
00:28:12.400 --> 00:28:17.680
It is very like Raincore esque in that it is like,

474
00:28:17.839 --> 00:28:20.960
not just your your your scary monster. It's also clearly

475
00:28:20.960 --> 00:28:21.960
a beloved pet.

476
00:28:23.240 --> 00:28:26.519
Yes, also the sassy robot doctor.

477
00:28:26.880 --> 00:28:27.680
Oh my gosh.

478
00:28:27.720 --> 00:28:33.319
That doctor he needs.

479
00:28:31.759 --> 00:28:36.160
Specifically a doctor. They hate your doctor. I'm like, when

480
00:28:36.160 --> 00:28:38.319
I walk into my doctor's office and I'm like, can

481
00:28:38.359 --> 00:28:40.720
you replace my legs? I want them to be like,

482
00:28:40.720 --> 00:28:48.000
what are you doing? So I have to do this again? Awesome.

483
00:28:49.640 --> 00:28:53.519
I did find it interesting watching kit Pisto with his

484
00:28:53.640 --> 00:28:58.839
previous padawan and waking up to the realization that maybe

485
00:28:58.880 --> 00:29:01.039
his patawan didn't and closely enough.

486
00:29:01.640 --> 00:29:09.680
Oh my gosh, it was so interesting. Yeah, Kenny, that's

487
00:29:09.960 --> 00:29:14.720
that's it. What it's it's it's just an interesting dynamic.

488
00:29:14.759 --> 00:29:17.359
I'm not sure that I have anything other to say

489
00:29:17.359 --> 00:29:21.559
about that other than the fact that I appreciated the

490
00:29:21.640 --> 00:29:24.480
dramatic contrast, and then also just watching the special feature.

491
00:29:24.480 --> 00:29:30.359
In regards to this episode, uh, I don't know. The GALVT,

492
00:29:30.480 --> 00:29:34.480
the the deliberate choice of being like, we're we're making

493
00:29:34.480 --> 00:29:38.000
this padawan very headstrong, and because I'm a smart boy,

494
00:29:38.559 --> 00:29:40.279
I couldn't help. But just think about it within the

495
00:29:40.319 --> 00:29:47.279
context of now and the the more action oriented, youth

496
00:29:47.319 --> 00:29:53.240
fulks versus the more patients let's practice patients, which was

497
00:29:53.279 --> 00:29:56.720
in the context of this episode. It's very much just like, oh,

498
00:29:56.759 --> 00:30:00.759
the Patawan is clearly wrong, but within our ticular climate

499
00:30:00.759 --> 00:30:05.319
of twenty twenty four, and that kind of thinking might

500
00:30:05.359 --> 00:30:07.920
just indicate that kit Festo is part of those sleepy

501
00:30:08.000 --> 00:30:10.559
Jedi that led to the downfall of the Republic.

502
00:30:12.279 --> 00:30:14.279
It's an interesting it's an interesting point.

503
00:30:14.319 --> 00:30:16.279
I agree your.

504
00:30:17.799 --> 00:30:23.839
Interest. Uh, my primary takeaway from that was, and this

505
00:30:23.960 --> 00:30:27.920
is gonna this comes up later, So apologies for like

506
00:30:28.119 --> 00:30:31.240
thematically skippinghab but it comes up later with ah Soka.

507
00:30:31.319 --> 00:30:33.680
But we've talked about well, we've talked about this that

508
00:30:33.839 --> 00:30:39.359
Ahsoka boilers. You know, Ahsoka's fourteen years old, Yeah, and

509
00:30:40.200 --> 00:30:45.440
other Padawans like her, their first experience as Jedi is

510
00:30:45.480 --> 00:30:48.279
being part of a war. So what does it mean

511
00:30:48.359 --> 00:30:50.720
to I mean, effectively jo Ira cops, but like they

512
00:30:50.720 --> 00:30:54.960
are peace keepers, right, they are you know, ostensibly they're peacekeepers.

513
00:30:55.240 --> 00:30:59.680
The sleepiness is complacency, but it's also about knowing that

514
00:30:59.720 --> 00:31:03.680
we have this power in the space. There's political machinations,

515
00:31:03.759 --> 00:31:07.680
but I wonder if there's a commentary here, at least

516
00:31:07.720 --> 00:31:10.559
the way I took it on. Now that you're entering

517
00:31:10.599 --> 00:31:12.559
into this, you're entering at a time of war.

518
00:31:13.200 --> 00:31:19.680
It's contextually it's contextually within the history of Star Wars

519
00:31:19.720 --> 00:31:22.440
and how Jedi have been depicted so far. We're in

520
00:31:22.480 --> 00:31:26.039
two thousand and eight, and so far, while we have

521
00:31:26.200 --> 00:31:33.079
had a large breadth of Star Wars text to draw from,

522
00:31:33.319 --> 00:31:36.240
Thank you Ewoks and Droids for your service, the Jedi

523
00:31:36.319 --> 00:31:38.400
are still kind of getting established about what the heck

524
00:31:38.440 --> 00:31:41.799
that they are in this notation of like now circa

525
00:31:41.839 --> 00:31:44.559
twenty twenty four, where they're like, yeah, they're definitely space cops.

526
00:31:44.920 --> 00:31:49.680
But the definition of what the Jedi are is completely evolving.

527
00:31:49.720 --> 00:31:53.680
And so you're in the contrast of Kit Fisto now

528
00:31:53.680 --> 00:31:55.799
that I'm thinking about it, kind of driving from the

529
00:31:55.839 --> 00:31:58.720
Empire strikes back kind of Jedi, of being like Les

530
00:31:58.759 --> 00:32:02.799
practici patients. It's not necessarily about actions, not necessarily about

531
00:32:02.839 --> 00:32:07.599
the power fantasy versus not just keep bringing up doctor

532
00:32:07.680 --> 00:32:10.640
Knowles text, but also kind of the power fantasy aspect

533
00:32:10.680 --> 00:32:14.680
of the Jedi because you watched Star Wars Clone Wars,

534
00:32:14.720 --> 00:32:18.359
the Tartakowski piece, and you see Jedi being the bad

535
00:32:18.680 --> 00:32:24.480
badassiest badasses of all time, and also for for several

536
00:32:24.559 --> 00:32:28.960
generations of folks out there, they're like, Jedi are the coolest,

537
00:32:29.319 --> 00:32:33.720
most badass badasses of all time Circle two thousand and eight.

538
00:32:34.359 --> 00:32:39.440
Now we're like space cops complicated, and the text has

539
00:32:39.480 --> 00:32:44.039
evolved with specifically with the seven seasons of the Clone

540
00:32:44.039 --> 00:32:45.880
Wars the rest of the Star Wars text of being

541
00:32:45.960 --> 00:32:49.480
like the Jedi were kind of full of themselves. Lucas

542
00:32:49.519 --> 00:32:51.960
intended that in the prequels, but it was hard to

543
00:32:52.039 --> 00:32:57.039
see through filmmaking language. Yeah, man, smart, good job.

544
00:32:57.200 --> 00:33:03.799
May actually I'm interested, doctor, because that is like, if

545
00:33:03.839 --> 00:33:06.480
I'm parsing out what you just said, he's kind of like,

546
00:33:06.880 --> 00:33:11.440
uh if Tartakovski is Jedi as superheroes, and then we

547
00:33:11.519 --> 00:33:13.799
kind of transition back into this as like Jedi as

548
00:33:14.279 --> 00:33:17.559
like it's almost like the Padawan is representing that greater

549
00:33:17.720 --> 00:33:22.319
power fantasy as opposed to the more patient side of it.

550
00:33:22.319 --> 00:33:25.039
It's almost like we're pulling away from superheroes again and

551
00:33:25.039 --> 00:33:29.240
into maybe Empire asks, Am I am I reading that right?

552
00:33:29.279 --> 00:33:29.839
What do you think?

553
00:33:29.880 --> 00:33:34.119
Are we smart? Like guess like us?

554
00:33:34.319 --> 00:33:35.119
Are you a friend?

555
00:33:36.079 --> 00:33:37.920
Do I need to like fill out a note with

556
00:33:38.079 --> 00:33:38.920
do you like me? Yes?

557
00:33:39.000 --> 00:33:39.200
Or no?

558
00:33:39.480 --> 00:33:40.039
Can you give.

559
00:33:43.119 --> 00:33:46.000
Okay, I'm just going to say this for the bourb startup.

560
00:33:47.240 --> 00:33:55.480
I don't give grades, you earn them. We are in

561
00:33:55.559 --> 00:33:59.240
her mid thirties, yeah, and I'm in my late forties,

562
00:33:59.240 --> 00:34:03.640
so we're not part We're like, please give us a

563
00:34:04.359 --> 00:34:09.880
going to say? Is the thing about it is that

564
00:34:10.880 --> 00:34:15.039
Nadar isn't a padawan anymore by that point, he's a

565
00:34:15.079 --> 00:34:18.400
full on Jedi night of his own. So while he

566
00:34:18.519 --> 00:34:24.519
trained with Fisto, he's he's been, he graduated. Yeah, he's

567
00:34:24.559 --> 00:34:26.920
on his own now, and so the decisions that he

568
00:34:27.039 --> 00:34:31.480
makes are on him, and all Fisto can really do

569
00:34:31.519 --> 00:34:37.880
is look at it and go, well that suck. Moving on. Oh,

570
00:34:39.159 --> 00:34:41.559
I mean, there's really nothing he can do once his

571
00:34:41.920 --> 00:34:47.119
Once his former padawan makes that decision, he chooses to state.

572
00:34:47.320 --> 00:34:51.800
I mean, he'll advise, but he doesn't materially throw him

573
00:34:51.840 --> 00:34:59.079
into get into his way, or he doesn't. He advises

574
00:34:59.119 --> 00:35:04.960
that he doesn't physically stop anybody. He lets Nadar continue

575
00:35:05.039 --> 00:35:08.960
on with his free agency, even if that results in

576
00:35:09.000 --> 00:35:18.440
his demise. So yeah, apathy, no, no, but sometimes you

577
00:35:18.519 --> 00:35:21.119
just gotta let the student do what the student's gonna do.

578
00:35:22.280 --> 00:35:22.599
M M.

579
00:35:23.320 --> 00:35:27.960
I circled this in my notes, using death as a

580
00:35:27.960 --> 00:35:33.559
motive based factor for pre existing desire because specifically Nadar

581
00:35:33.920 --> 00:35:40.639
is using Nadar wants to kick some ass. Nadara wants

582
00:35:40.679 --> 00:35:43.960
to get out there and wants to fight, and then yeah,

583
00:35:44.039 --> 00:35:48.719
he's he's mad, he wants he wants to fight, and

584
00:35:48.800 --> 00:35:53.960
he is kind of just to bring this with Lucas

585
00:35:54.039 --> 00:35:57.039
wanting to comment about certain things that were going on

586
00:35:57.079 --> 00:36:00.360
in the United States, well in pre Nixonian then also

587
00:36:00.480 --> 00:36:03.760
just within the context of nine to eleven and seeing

588
00:36:03.840 --> 00:36:08.039
Nadar as an example of using something that is actually

589
00:36:08.079 --> 00:36:12.119
bad to galvanize. I want to get to a fight.

590
00:36:12.360 --> 00:36:14.000
I want to fight, and I'm going to use this

591
00:36:14.199 --> 00:36:18.039
as my motivating factor. We got to get them. I

592
00:36:18.119 --> 00:36:20.199
just thought that was great end of statement.

593
00:36:21.920 --> 00:36:25.360
I really did think that Nadar was coming from a

594
00:36:25.400 --> 00:36:29.480
place of grief because a lot of the lightsabers that

595
00:36:29.920 --> 00:36:34.639
Swiss Army Grievous was using were from other Jedi that

596
00:36:34.760 --> 00:36:37.840
he knew, ye h. I mean there were all of

597
00:36:37.880 --> 00:36:41.960
the Padawan braids in the trophy room, there were the lightsabers.

598
00:36:42.920 --> 00:36:49.920
So this probably really did tap into not only anger

599
00:36:50.119 --> 00:36:54.440
and grief, but maybe even a little bit of survivor's guilt.

600
00:36:55.880 --> 00:36:58.320
So what are you going to try to do avenge

601
00:36:58.400 --> 00:37:00.920
those people who are gone this?

602
00:37:01.119 --> 00:37:04.599
So that's such an interesting thought because I yes, absolutely,

603
00:37:04.679 --> 00:37:07.639
And so if we were to go by what has

604
00:37:07.679 --> 00:37:12.800
been canonically or like at least textually presented of what

605
00:37:13.159 --> 00:37:16.679
the Jedi say is the correct way to kind of

606
00:37:16.679 --> 00:37:20.440
go about this, right is a lack of attachment. It's

607
00:37:20.480 --> 00:37:24.880
not to give into this anger, this fear. And I

608
00:37:25.280 --> 00:37:27.960
would say the kit Fisto piece about kind of being

609
00:37:28.079 --> 00:37:30.960
like sort of hands off about it is a respect

610
00:37:30.960 --> 00:37:33.639
of the agency of his former student. I also wonder

611
00:37:33.679 --> 00:37:36.480
if it's coming from that place of, well, you know,

612
00:37:36.679 --> 00:37:41.440
we have to let people go and there is a

613
00:37:41.599 --> 00:37:46.199
risk and holding onto them. But I think, ah, something

614
00:37:46.400 --> 00:37:49.519
I really do, And I think that perhaps, especially as

615
00:37:49.519 --> 00:37:53.800
they're being descended into what is actually a very frightening

616
00:37:53.840 --> 00:37:56.880
experience where there's war and there's battle happening all that time,

617
00:37:57.280 --> 00:37:59.559
that approach is falling apart, like it doesn't matter how

618
00:37:59.599 --> 00:38:02.119
we train in this space. You can't say to a

619
00:38:02.159 --> 00:38:04.880
person who's watching your people and your friends die all

620
00:38:05.000 --> 00:38:08.000
the time, well, just approach it with the lack of attachment,

621
00:38:08.360 --> 00:38:10.440
you know, just like let it go right.

622
00:38:10.480 --> 00:38:12.559
Well, we also saw a little bit of that ego

623
00:38:12.679 --> 00:38:16.519
coming through with Luminara and Duley in the previous episode

624
00:38:16.599 --> 00:38:20.079
when she was saying, yes, Ahsoka, I understand you've dealt

625
00:38:20.079 --> 00:38:23.920
with this bog witch before. Yep, and that's a Soka's term,

626
00:38:24.119 --> 00:38:24.679
bog witch.

627
00:38:25.920 --> 00:38:28.239
I love it so much. Oh we can call I

628
00:38:28.360 --> 00:38:31.480
love ventures with all my heart. And she is just

629
00:38:31.800 --> 00:38:34.639
she's a real witch bitch and that's that is positive.

630
00:38:35.960 --> 00:38:43.639
Yes, yes, complimentary bogwitch complimentary, Yes exactly, Yes, yes.

631
00:38:43.920 --> 00:38:45.519
Luminar is the other one I was thinking of. She

632
00:38:45.559 --> 00:38:48.400
represents this a lot. She represents it later on with

633
00:38:48.519 --> 00:38:51.559
her paddle on too. Although it really did make me

634
00:38:51.639 --> 00:38:55.159
wonder during that episode why was she paired with Ahsoka

635
00:38:55.320 --> 00:38:58.000
Where was Parrots? Yeah, because the two of them have

636
00:38:58.159 --> 00:39:03.280
a tandem fighting style that Soka really didn't have access to,

637
00:39:04.360 --> 00:39:06.920
so why are you uncapping her? But anyway, coming back

638
00:39:06.920 --> 00:39:14.199
to layer of grievous, I love the I love count Dooku.

639
00:39:14.440 --> 00:39:18.360
I think he is a fantastic character. And it's Christopher Lee.

640
00:39:18.440 --> 00:39:22.320
You can't go wrong with one of the inspirations for

641
00:39:22.400 --> 00:39:25.039
James Bond. I didn't know that.

642
00:39:25.559 --> 00:39:31.159
Yeah, Christopher Lee was cousins with Ian Fleming, Oh my God,

643
00:39:31.159 --> 00:39:34.320
and the care and a guy by the name of

644
00:39:34.360 --> 00:39:40.480
Major Guests Phillips Majors or Major's Phillips, Major Phillips. There

645
00:39:42.400 --> 00:39:48.920
was the full on inspiration for James Bond. But because

646
00:39:49.000 --> 00:39:52.559
Christopher Lee had done enough covert work during World War Two,

647
00:39:53.360 --> 00:39:58.960
dude also has his spy chops and just that feeling

648
00:39:59.159 --> 00:40:03.000
of a character an actor who is in complete control.

649
00:40:03.480 --> 00:40:08.280
Dooku being in complete control. It's good.

650
00:40:08.639 --> 00:40:13.480
Have you seen that that story about how in Lord

651
00:40:13.519 --> 00:40:14.199
of the Rings?

652
00:40:15.159 --> 00:40:16.119
I adore the story.

653
00:40:16.480 --> 00:40:17.920
I think I know the one you're talking about.

654
00:40:18.440 --> 00:40:20.679
You know, it's just like he's say, he was talking

655
00:40:20.679 --> 00:40:22.280
to Peter Jackson about like, oh yeah, well if you

656
00:40:22.320 --> 00:40:24.400
stab a man from behind and like had like it

657
00:40:24.440 --> 00:40:26.639
was just like a little bit like an exhalation of

658
00:40:26.679 --> 00:40:29.840
breath and it's just like, because I'm stabbed from the bod.

659
00:40:31.639 --> 00:40:35.199
So yeah, which is I actually have to disagree. That's

660
00:40:35.320 --> 00:40:38.360
not the sound that a dead person makes whenever they die.

661
00:40:38.480 --> 00:40:39.360
Oh yeah, what is it?

662
00:40:39.480 --> 00:40:41.119
Oh when you stab somebody from behind?

663
00:40:41.360 --> 00:40:48.199
Yeah, when you stab somebody, they'll say that's what.

664
00:40:48.159 --> 00:40:50.719
I would say.

665
00:40:51.960 --> 00:40:53.440
Fris, my oldest.

666
00:40:53.079 --> 00:40:57.840
Friend, comes out of Rise of Skywalker unscathed.

667
00:40:57.960 --> 00:41:05.320
My guy, yes, so yeah, the way that Douku just

668
00:41:05.360 --> 00:41:08.119
started up, admits, Oh yeah, I turned off your droids.

669
00:41:08.440 --> 00:41:11.840
Oh yes, I'm also testing you. Oh and you fail?

670
00:41:12.599 --> 00:41:14.599
Oh my god, you do better next time.

671
00:41:14.800 --> 00:41:22.280
He's like, you don't get an a C? Yeah?

672
00:41:22.360 --> 00:41:22.880
Tops is C?

673
00:41:24.440 --> 00:41:24.679
Yes?

674
00:41:24.800 --> 00:41:25.000
Yeah?

675
00:41:26.000 --> 00:41:28.840
Yeah, man, this that's funny. I love I love DQ too.

676
00:41:29.000 --> 00:41:32.840
I also love Grievs. I am I just like I

677
00:41:32.960 --> 00:41:35.719
don't feel bad about loving Grievs. I think he's a weirdo.

678
00:41:36.719 --> 00:41:38.679
This episode makes me love him even more because I

679
00:41:38.760 --> 00:41:40.800
like that he can lose his legs and crawl around

680
00:41:40.840 --> 00:41:42.920
like a spider and it's so scary and I love it.

681
00:41:43.480 --> 00:41:46.480
Well. He also goes swinging through his house, not unlike

682
00:41:46.719 --> 00:41:49.360
Jean lu Picard swinging through the ship looking for breakfast

683
00:41:49.400 --> 00:41:51.599
in the episode of Next Gen where everybody devolves.

684
00:41:52.079 --> 00:41:56.039
Oh Jesus, Genesis, there it is.

685
00:41:58.599 --> 00:42:01.800
He's a seven of Next Gen. Boil boy asspen it

686
00:42:01.840 --> 00:42:03.519
gets weird.

687
00:42:04.360 --> 00:42:05.400
Oh so good though.

688
00:42:05.840 --> 00:42:09.119
Oh my gosh, that's like the only season of Star Trek,

689
00:42:09.199 --> 00:42:11.840
well or older ones or not season. It's the only

690
00:42:12.000 --> 00:42:17.719
Star Trek show I haven't really seen, so yes, I

691
00:42:18.159 --> 00:42:22.519
I really it's deeply creepy. Uh. The way he's represented

692
00:42:22.559 --> 00:42:24.920
this is also uh to kind of go as slightly

693
00:42:24.960 --> 00:42:30.239
on a grievous tangent to here. There are the statues

694
00:42:30.280 --> 00:42:32.159
that he has in the in that sequence where they're

695
00:42:32.199 --> 00:42:33.480
realizing where they are.

696
00:42:33.840 --> 00:42:36.599
I adore it. I adore it as someone that doesn't.

697
00:42:37.559 --> 00:42:39.639
I'm coming to Clone Wars and I'm like, Grievous is

698
00:42:39.719 --> 00:42:42.119
just a guy. He's a he's the he's a he's

699
00:42:42.119 --> 00:42:44.920
a little guy who moves around his arms and in

700
00:42:45.079 --> 00:42:52.239
lightsabers and he talks with a Romanian accent. Uh. And

701
00:42:52.280 --> 00:42:58.920
then seeing those statues, I'm just like, this is this

702
00:42:59.000 --> 00:43:00.920
is the kind of world building that I very much

703
00:43:01.360 --> 00:43:03.599
enjoy war. It just makes me lean forward and ask

704
00:43:03.760 --> 00:43:07.760
questions without telling me what the heck is actually going on.

705
00:43:08.320 --> 00:43:11.440
And then the notion of Grievance getting all these cybernetic

706
00:43:11.480 --> 00:43:14.199
replacements just to be better, which caused me to write

707
00:43:14.199 --> 00:43:19.679
my brilliant note is Grievous Attack bro Aspen attack bro.

708
00:43:20.880 --> 00:43:24.320
Oh a tech bro bro? Is he a tech bro?

709
00:43:24.440 --> 00:43:27.199
One hundred percent? He is one of those Well, he's

710
00:43:27.239 --> 00:43:29.960
like a tech bro from one of those films about

711
00:43:29.960 --> 00:43:31.199
the future where they're like, I.

712
00:43:31.159 --> 00:43:32.800
Got these cybernetic implants.

713
00:43:32.800 --> 00:43:35.679
Man, got magnets in my fingers, Like.

714
00:43:35.840 --> 00:43:37.880
You like magnets in your fingers?

715
00:43:37.760 --> 00:43:41.079
As the worst idea ever, ask why would you? Sorry,

716
00:43:41.079 --> 00:43:43.280
I've been watching a lot of Nick kroll Croll show.

717
00:43:43.280 --> 00:43:46.519
It's it's a sketch and curl show. That is not

718
00:43:46.559 --> 00:43:50.519
an original idea. That was Nick Kroll's idea. Sorry, it

719
00:43:50.599 --> 00:43:56.480
was very funny though, but you know, I'm trying to magnets,

720
00:43:57.440 --> 00:43:59.239
trying to think of a thom like you know, like

721
00:43:59.280 --> 00:44:03.599
that where like yeah got the stuff man, so yeah,

722
00:44:03.639 --> 00:44:06.239
and that kind of guy. Yeah. But also there's an

723
00:44:06.239 --> 00:44:10.039
interesting backstory on him that I've talked about on here.

724
00:44:10.320 --> 00:44:13.639
There's yes, and I think there's even a few different

725
00:44:14.840 --> 00:44:17.360
kind of continuity aspects. Just like an eu version, there's

726
00:44:17.360 --> 00:44:22.239
other versions and in both versions though, he is a

727
00:44:22.880 --> 00:44:26.360
he's a warrior and he's a caliche. And the story

728
00:44:26.400 --> 00:44:29.880
I know him to be is that he was a

729
00:44:29.920 --> 00:44:33.719
warrior that was specifically targeted and brought down by them,

730
00:44:34.239 --> 00:44:39.480
by yeah, by Douku to then control him and turn

731
00:44:39.559 --> 00:44:44.679
him into this cyborg. And so, regardless of what story

732
00:44:44.719 --> 00:44:48.320
people follow, whether and whether you know that or not,

733
00:44:48.840 --> 00:44:51.559
to then see these flashes of these statues of what

734
00:44:51.639 --> 00:44:55.760
he was when he was a warrior is extraordinarily beautiful

735
00:44:55.840 --> 00:44:59.880
visual storytelling, I think, and creepy because it's a little

736
00:45:00.079 --> 00:45:02.719
you're in that like horror, like the like the like

737
00:45:02.760 --> 00:45:03.840
the Haunted House, and you're like.

738
00:45:05.760 --> 00:45:09.559
Well, it definitely picks up on the show don't tell yes,

739
00:45:10.079 --> 00:45:13.480
And I love that, But if you're going to be

740
00:45:13.559 --> 00:45:17.840
reduced to a brain and an organ sack, you better

741
00:45:17.880 --> 00:45:21.000
have a much better trade off than what he's got

742
00:45:21.039 --> 00:45:21.480
going on.

743
00:45:22.320 --> 00:45:24.480
No, poor buddy almost makes me feel bad for him.

744
00:45:24.840 --> 00:45:26.800
Honestly, some days I wake up and I wish that

745
00:45:26.800 --> 00:45:27.719
I was an organ sack.

746
00:45:28.280 --> 00:45:36.039
Okay, capitalism, yes, right, I mean basically har am I right, we.

747
00:45:36.079 --> 00:45:41.159
Get in the in the flony on special features, we

748
00:45:41.239 --> 00:45:44.400
get filony. Being like George said, Grievous wanted to be

749
00:45:44.440 --> 00:45:47.320
a Jedi, he couldn't, and then editors note so he

750
00:45:47.440 --> 00:45:48.119
tech wrote.

751
00:45:47.920 --> 00:45:54.000
Out, Oh now, I didn't realize that there had been

752
00:45:54.039 --> 00:45:56.320
a desire to be a Jedi. I thought he was

753
00:45:56.480 --> 00:46:01.320
just a warrior who decided upgrades looked acceptable once he

754
00:46:01.360 --> 00:46:03.199
couldn't really use his arms and lengths anymore.

755
00:46:03.280 --> 00:46:06.800
I mean there's the textual examples within EU and the

756
00:46:06.800 --> 00:46:08.960
rest of the Clone Wars, and then there's this special

757
00:46:08.960 --> 00:46:14.800
feature that is referencing what our lord above, George Lucas

758
00:46:14.960 --> 00:46:19.239
actually said that he wants Grievous to be, and just

759
00:46:19.360 --> 00:46:22.840
which I am sure that George was just like he

760
00:46:23.480 --> 00:46:25.840
just said it because he hadn't thought about it, and

761
00:46:25.880 --> 00:46:29.280
so he was like, does you want to be a Jedi?

762
00:46:31.440 --> 00:46:34.639
Maybe he doesn't, so maybe that's maybe that's the story.

763
00:46:35.440 --> 00:46:37.239
And Dave foil Oni with his hat was just like,

764
00:46:37.360 --> 00:46:38.360
great genius.

765
00:46:41.639 --> 00:46:42.400
Yeah, I just.

766
00:46:42.360 --> 00:46:47.639
Realized I wasn't plugged in, and my it's okay, I

767
00:46:47.679 --> 00:46:49.400
got this, you know.

768
00:46:49.719 --> 00:46:52.000
I thought you got so excited and you were like, wait,

769
00:46:52.039 --> 00:46:52.519
I have a book.

770
00:46:53.719 --> 00:46:56.159
No, but I have been thinking about when we're talking

771
00:46:56.159 --> 00:46:59.280
about Grievous in this context, I wonder how it would

772
00:46:59.360 --> 00:47:02.199
read under a lens of disability stuffies.

773
00:47:03.800 --> 00:47:04.880
Oh extraordinary.

774
00:47:06.880 --> 00:47:08.639
I'm a cultural studies person. This is what we do

775
00:47:08.679 --> 00:47:09.199
full time.

776
00:47:09.519 --> 00:47:12.559
Yes, I mean I think there's so many different ways

777
00:47:12.559 --> 00:47:17.159
that we could could approach it if we appreciate with

778
00:47:17.239 --> 00:47:21.840
the the background piece that I'm familiar with, My immediate

779
00:47:21.880 --> 00:47:28.320
thought is on the if he were indeed, if he

780
00:47:28.400 --> 00:47:31.320
were indeed like shot down, and then they provided him

781
00:47:31.320 --> 00:47:33.880
with the cybernetics, like that is it? That is like

782
00:47:34.360 --> 00:47:38.119
taking his agency away and putting him in this position,

783
00:47:38.400 --> 00:47:43.400
of this position of like being marginalized for their purposes,

784
00:47:43.480 --> 00:47:46.679
which is horrifying. And that's like the first thing that

785
00:47:46.719 --> 00:47:47.519
comes to mind for me.

786
00:47:48.119 --> 00:47:50.039
I mean, don't we eventually say the same thing with

787
00:47:50.119 --> 00:47:53.679
Darth Vader, because we're told over and over again that

788
00:47:53.960 --> 00:47:57.480
this was not done to relieve his suffering. This was

789
00:47:57.599 --> 00:48:02.280
to make a tool of him, and he Palpatine ensured

790
00:48:02.400 --> 00:48:05.400
that he could continue to feel pain so that he

791
00:48:05.400 --> 00:48:08.000
would never have a comfortable day in his life.

792
00:48:08.239 --> 00:48:12.800
Oh Christ, I'm going to use this as I think

793
00:48:12.840 --> 00:48:15.679
an appropriate segue to our Star Trek piece today, Plato

794
00:48:15.760 --> 00:48:18.480
step Children speaking of disability.

795
00:48:17.920 --> 00:48:20.239
Text and also lack of agency.

796
00:48:20.760 --> 00:48:23.440
Oh my goodness, Yeah.

797
00:48:23.599 --> 00:48:26.960
I'm having the same like visceral physical reaction even talking

798
00:48:26.960 --> 00:48:31.239
about talking about this that I was watching Plato Stepchildren.

799
00:48:31.320 --> 00:48:33.480
Well, Plato step Children, I think is just kind of

800
00:48:33.519 --> 00:48:36.280
like a light, gentle episode where the crew of the

801
00:48:36.440 --> 00:48:38.800
Enterprise is just being like, why don't he eat some

802
00:48:38.840 --> 00:48:43.400
fruit and play the harp and steam minutes Kirk Spacha

803
00:48:43.480 --> 00:48:45.960
McCoy are just being like, isn't it great that we're

804
00:48:46.000 --> 00:48:50.239
star treking, and the Platoniums are just like, yeah, absolutely,

805
00:48:50.559 --> 00:48:52.320
well goodbye, it's great that.

806
00:48:52.280 --> 00:48:55.079
They're star treking across the universe. I was just thinking

807
00:48:55.119 --> 00:49:00.360
that same thing. Holdly going forward because we cannot find reverse.

808
00:49:02.760 --> 00:49:07.360
Yes, you've seen you've seen the cliff from Star Trek

809
00:49:07.400 --> 00:49:13.039
First Contact, right where they say the name of the show. No, yes, oh,

810
00:49:13.079 --> 00:49:17.599
there is spoilers for Star Trek. But there's a moment

811
00:49:17.679 --> 00:49:21.199
where the crew of the Enterprise E are downstairs on

812
00:49:21.199 --> 00:49:25.039
the planet Earth because it's a time travel movie, and

813
00:49:25.079 --> 00:49:27.800
they're talking. They're talking with the inventor of warp drives

814
00:49:28.000 --> 00:49:31.079
from Cochrane and they're like, homie, you got to make

815
00:49:31.119 --> 00:49:35.760
sure and they say that it's very inappropriate. They say,

816
00:49:36.519 --> 00:49:39.079
you need to make sure that the flight happens tomorrow

817
00:49:39.400 --> 00:49:44.159
or else all of all Starfleet Federation, all of the

818
00:49:44.239 --> 00:49:47.760
advances of Earth won't happen towards Zefrom. Cochrane goes, you're

819
00:49:47.800 --> 00:49:57.119
all you're all astronauts on some kind of Star Trek.

820
00:49:57.559 --> 00:50:02.320
I like that, and I swear, I swear to you.

821
00:50:02.400 --> 00:50:07.840
Jonathan Frakes almost looks down the lens of the camera goes, he.

822
00:50:07.800 --> 00:50:09.719
Goes, You're you're like astronauts and some kind of Star

823
00:50:09.800 --> 00:50:11.920
Trek colon First Contact.

824
00:50:12.639 --> 00:50:17.000
Really, it's it's it's thrilling. It's thrilling every single time.

825
00:50:17.400 --> 00:50:21.920
I remember seeing that in the theaters, and it was

826
00:50:22.559 --> 00:50:25.960
I'm pretty sure that the whole audience went the traditional

827
00:50:26.039 --> 00:50:28.559
white person call up whoooooo.

828
00:50:29.679 --> 00:50:32.519
He said the thing he did, he said the thing

829
00:50:33.360 --> 00:50:35.800
that actually does sound very invigorating.

830
00:50:36.719 --> 00:50:39.360
It was very Star Star Trek First Contact, A good

831
00:50:39.440 --> 00:50:43.239
dumb movie, beautiful. Anyways, we're not here to talk about

832
00:50:43.239 --> 00:50:45.840
Star Trek First Contact. We're here to talk about step Children,

833
00:50:45.920 --> 00:50:50.639
a cool, chill TV episode. Uh, first impressions, Doc Nole.

834
00:50:53.960 --> 00:50:59.840
Thanks, I hate it. So if we were talking in

835
00:51:00.159 --> 00:51:07.159
previous episode about the importance of controlling his own power,

836
00:51:10.079 --> 00:51:11.960
let's just say that there are a few things right

837
00:51:12.000 --> 00:51:14.480
off the bat that let me know that something's up.

838
00:51:14.480 --> 00:51:21.760
One eugenics. There's thirty eight specimens left specimens. Okay, cool,

839
00:51:22.440 --> 00:51:31.239
I'm now frankly seeing untrammeled power and how it completely

840
00:51:31.280 --> 00:51:35.320
corrupts was feeling a little bit more familiar than I

841
00:51:35.400 --> 00:51:41.400
actually wanted. Particularly we've got the audience, the audience surrogate

842
00:51:42.480 --> 00:51:48.320
of Alexander, and for me, a lot of the themes

843
00:51:48.440 --> 00:51:53.039
that were being discussed are just as relevant today like

844
00:51:55.000 --> 00:51:59.880
July fourteenth, twenty twenty four, as they were in nineteen

845
00:52:00.239 --> 00:52:01.599
excuse me, nineteen sixty eight.

846
00:52:02.760 --> 00:52:06.800
Yeah, I wonder, I wonder, I mean not to not to,

847
00:52:07.480 --> 00:52:10.679
but piggyback while you're saying I as I was like,

848
00:52:11.039 --> 00:52:17.199
as I was watching, I fundamentally I felt nauseated genuinely,

849
00:52:17.719 --> 00:52:19.800
which I think is just going to come from watching

850
00:52:19.840 --> 00:52:23.760
people literally be tortured for ten minutes at a time.

851
00:52:23.880 --> 00:52:26.960
At a certain point, I thought this has to end soon,

852
00:52:27.440 --> 00:52:30.519
I can't and then it just kept going. But I

853
00:52:30.599 --> 00:52:32.400
wonder if part of me it was also having this

854
00:52:32.440 --> 00:52:35.159
feeling of this is too familiar, this is too close

855
00:52:35.199 --> 00:52:38.280
to home. There is a genuine feeling in twenty twenty

856
00:52:38.320 --> 00:52:41.320
four of yep, this is about this is it? This

857
00:52:41.360 --> 00:52:42.199
is what it feels like?

858
00:52:43.039 --> 00:52:51.599
So yeah, very little bit. Yeah, it felt very well,

859
00:52:52.239 --> 00:52:55.280
for lack of a better word, aa shistic, where you've

860
00:52:55.280 --> 00:53:00.639
got that whole fascism angle of yeah, one way to go,

861
00:53:02.559 --> 00:53:11.039
and controlling not only Alexander but also others, manipulating them,

862
00:53:11.079 --> 00:53:18.400
torturing them. I wasn't quite expecting Spock to trample on

863
00:53:18.519 --> 00:53:25.960
Kirk's head during his little tarantella, but I as soon

864
00:53:25.960 --> 00:53:30.239
as we hit the point of the stop hitting yourself,

865
00:53:32.159 --> 00:53:34.719
it was at that point that there was absolutely no

866
00:53:34.800 --> 00:53:39.280
question about whether or not these people were abusers. Oh god, yes,

867
00:53:39.599 --> 00:53:41.960
And that was being written in nineteen sixty eight, which

868
00:53:42.039 --> 00:53:45.880
was not really a time when we were acknowledging that

869
00:53:46.119 --> 00:53:54.440
abuse was happening in homes in other spaces. And so

870
00:53:56.079 --> 00:54:00.199
by placing Kirk, Spock, and McCoy in a situation where

871
00:54:00.239 --> 00:54:04.920
they are first completely stripped of power and agency, and

872
00:54:04.960 --> 00:54:07.599
then all of a sudden, once they solve the problem,

873
00:54:07.599 --> 00:54:10.280
once they solve the riddle, and they're able to then

874
00:54:10.559 --> 00:54:17.239
assert themselves again, I didn't find that as satisfying as

875
00:54:17.239 --> 00:54:23.159
I wanted. I feel like the leader guy rolled over

876
00:54:23.719 --> 00:54:28.320
so fast when he realized that he couldn't be a bully.

877
00:54:30.679 --> 00:54:34.079
Yeah, well, that's that's an end of the episode itis

878
00:54:34.079 --> 00:54:36.920
And I think that's just kind of uh, par for

879
00:54:36.960 --> 00:54:39.960
the course. In terms of Star Trek episodes where suddenly

880
00:54:39.960 --> 00:54:42.559
they're like, uh, checking the watch, being like we got

881
00:54:42.840 --> 00:54:45.599
ninety sex and draft this up. Cool. Yeah, No, I'm

882
00:54:45.639 --> 00:54:47.599
never going to be a fascist ever again. Thank you

883
00:54:47.639 --> 00:54:49.599
for letting me see the error of my face.

884
00:54:50.440 --> 00:54:52.239
But then of course correct being like, no, I don't

885
00:54:52.239 --> 00:54:56.239
believe you, which I wonder if you know how one

886
00:54:56.239 --> 00:54:58.920
you're watching a horror film and you're.

887
00:54:59.000 --> 00:55:00.760
You know, you know, I don't watch this if I

888
00:55:00.800 --> 00:55:03.360
can avoid him, Oh well, I find a lot of

889
00:55:03.800 --> 00:55:05.400
a lot of it will happen sometimes for me in

890
00:55:05.440 --> 00:55:08.039
horror film like this, you know, ones that have say

891
00:55:08.079 --> 00:55:11.199
Final Girls for instance, where someone does say survive at

892
00:55:11.199 --> 00:55:11.519
the end.

893
00:55:12.079 --> 00:55:14.960
Part of it is that horrifying things are happening over

894
00:55:14.960 --> 00:55:17.440
and over and over again. You see your protagonists lose,

895
00:55:17.559 --> 00:55:20.159
you're so scared for them, and then there comes a

896
00:55:20.280 --> 00:55:22.960
turning point is typically when you can actually see the monster,

897
00:55:23.440 --> 00:55:27.440
where that person rises up and fights back and wins.

898
00:55:28.159 --> 00:55:32.719
And that doesn't always happen. It's not always deserved. Sometimes

899
00:55:32.719 --> 00:55:35.239
it doesn't happen it should. And this feels like one

900
00:55:35.239 --> 00:55:37.800
of the situations where I almost wanted It was like

901
00:55:37.920 --> 00:55:42.840
such an extended torture and sadism that I almost wanted

902
00:55:42.920 --> 00:55:46.599
Kirk to turn around and Final Girl It or one

903
00:55:46.599 --> 00:55:49.000
of the women to Final Girl It even more because

904
00:55:49.000 --> 00:55:50.559
they got pulled up into it too, or her and

905
00:55:50.679 --> 00:55:51.320
Nurse Chapel.

906
00:55:53.920 --> 00:55:56.519
Yeah, and I'll tell you as a fan of Strange

907
00:55:56.559 --> 00:56:01.000
New Worlds, yes I am. I was looking at that

908
00:56:01.760 --> 00:56:09.840
spot and Chapel interaction. Oh no, my heart was just aching. Yeah,

909
00:56:10.079 --> 00:56:13.639
because with that that history and then seeing how their

910
00:56:13.679 --> 00:56:19.760
relationship continued to well, it wasn't really evolving. I would

911
00:56:19.800 --> 00:56:22.599
say it was just more at station keeping, so you know,

912
00:56:22.760 --> 00:56:29.920
just we are colleagues. But yeah, that was that made.

913
00:56:29.719 --> 00:56:33.639
It worse almost And there are there are episodes too,

914
00:56:33.639 --> 00:56:36.840
and cos if you if you recall where is It

915
00:56:36.920 --> 00:56:40.320
the Naked Time, Yeah, where she's just like I love you,

916
00:56:40.480 --> 00:56:44.599
misters Bock, I love you. And so even without Strange Worlds,

917
00:56:44.599 --> 00:56:47.079
which does create a lot of pain for me too,

918
00:56:47.239 --> 00:56:49.320
like you still have it. You know that news Chapel's

919
00:56:49.320 --> 00:56:51.920
in love with them, and so it's just like it's

920
00:56:51.920 --> 00:56:53.920
just one of those where it's, yeah, it feels horrifying.

921
00:56:54.760 --> 00:57:00.559
Uh. Two things won the extent for the extent, torture,

922
00:57:02.239 --> 00:57:06.360
uneasy and also I think very indicative of the kinds

923
00:57:06.360 --> 00:57:09.079
of storytelling that is happening within season three of the

924
00:57:09.159 --> 00:57:13.559
original series, which is we don't exactly we don't exactly

925
00:57:13.599 --> 00:57:15.440
know what else to do, and so the characters are

926
00:57:15.480 --> 00:57:19.480
going to keep participating in these behaviors that are kind

927
00:57:19.480 --> 00:57:22.559
of out of character for the same characters from seasons

928
00:57:22.599 --> 00:57:25.679
one season two. They'd be a little bit more quick

929
00:57:26.400 --> 00:57:31.039
to the solution as opposed to for instance, and the

930
00:57:31.119 --> 00:57:34.519
children shall lead where Kirk goes to every single person

931
00:57:34.639 --> 00:57:37.400
is just like, surely you can't be brain controlled by

932
00:57:37.400 --> 00:57:38.039
these children?

933
00:57:39.400 --> 00:57:46.360
Yeah, good ideas that are destroyed by a run time,

934
00:57:46.440 --> 00:57:49.920
I guess, or just yeah you other time. Nothing else

935
00:57:49.960 --> 00:57:50.800
to say.

936
00:57:50.880 --> 00:57:56.800
Because at some point, and perhaps this is truly sincerely

937
00:57:56.880 --> 00:57:59.639
not a bit this is my cis hat white male perspective,

938
00:58:00.280 --> 00:58:03.639
but the tension just completely deflates from the torture because

939
00:58:03.639 --> 00:58:07.800
it just keeps happening again and again and again. And

940
00:58:07.880 --> 00:58:11.199
the way that they heighten it is just to bring

941
00:58:11.239 --> 00:58:15.719
down Chapel and Aura and that that's how you heighten it.

942
00:58:15.760 --> 00:58:20.639
But there's nothing I don't know. It was also very

943
00:58:20.639 --> 00:58:23.760
interesting talking about that Asmond, because we're friends outside of

944
00:58:23.760 --> 00:58:26.159
the podcast. It's not just content friendship.

945
00:58:25.760 --> 00:58:29.519
Friends, we're friends. I'm so sorry I moved away from you.

946
00:58:30.000 --> 00:58:33.239
It's okay. You deserve to be happy. My my legend.

947
00:58:33.800 --> 00:58:37.840
Thank you, You're welcome. You got to make sure that

948
00:58:37.880 --> 00:58:41.199
you're living in a safe state as opposed to Texas anyways.

949
00:58:43.280 --> 00:58:45.719
But also watching it through my perspective and I'm just like,

950
00:58:45.760 --> 00:58:49.360
this is a campy wild time. It is the the

951
00:58:49.360 --> 00:58:51.800
the control that they're having them do is just like

952
00:58:51.920 --> 00:58:57.400
Kirk becomes a horse, spots wild Spot dances to the Flamenco.

953
00:58:58.199 --> 00:59:00.400
I'm watching this and I'm just like, this is campy

954
00:59:00.440 --> 00:59:05.400
as hell, and asmen text me and just like this

955
00:59:05.519 --> 00:59:09.519
is horrifying, and I truly sincerely did not see that.

956
00:59:10.039 --> 00:59:11.840
I was just like, this is campy as hell.

957
00:59:12.480 --> 00:59:14.280
Oh wow.

958
00:59:15.280 --> 00:59:17.719
Well, also, I had a completely different relationship to all

959
00:59:17.760 --> 00:59:22.320
of this stuff, to Star Treker to this, to Star

960
00:59:22.400 --> 00:59:26.119
Trek to and probably to Torture as well, because I'm

961
00:59:26.159 --> 00:59:32.559
just Hi, I won the genetic lottery.

962
00:59:33.159 --> 00:59:38.280
Maybe are you talking about just blue eye marginalized identity stuff? Yeah, yeah, yeah,

963
00:59:38.360 --> 00:59:39.639
like being marginalized people.

964
00:59:41.360 --> 00:59:44.119
Not to say that I was cheering for Parman over there,

965
00:59:44.599 --> 00:59:51.159
which make no mistake, he was right, I know.

966
00:59:51.559 --> 00:59:54.760
And he's doing a terrible bit. Tal Girl was like Wow,

967
00:59:54.880 --> 00:59:57.239
what did I come into.

968
00:59:57.119 --> 01:00:01.039
Sorry doctor, No, I'm not a eugenicist, I state.

969
01:00:00.840 --> 01:00:04.320
That, but yeah, but interesting.

970
01:00:04.760 --> 01:00:05.679
But yeah.

971
01:00:06.880 --> 01:00:09.440
My perspective of this episode is that going into it,

972
01:00:09.480 --> 01:00:11.800
I'm like, cool, we're going to see Kirkus a horse.

973
01:00:13.199 --> 01:00:15.679
That's going to be something. We're going to see Alexander,

974
01:00:15.880 --> 01:00:17.239
which is who.

975
01:00:17.199 --> 01:00:19.440
Is a joy.

976
01:00:19.920 --> 01:00:23.079
Perhaps I engage in hyperboleague far too often, but I

977
01:00:23.119 --> 01:00:25.159
think it is one of the great performances of the

978
01:00:25.159 --> 01:00:26.840
original series. It is.

979
01:00:27.280 --> 01:00:32.280
Sincerely yes, I agree, Yes, that is the star that

980
01:00:32.960 --> 01:00:33.679
way too young.

981
01:00:33.960 --> 01:00:35.039
Yeah, he died.

982
01:00:34.880 --> 01:00:39.079
At what thirty eighty eight. The actor is Michael Dunn,

983
01:00:39.199 --> 01:00:43.400
who you could have seen on Fred Freiberger's previous show

984
01:00:43.440 --> 01:00:47.159
that he worked on The Wild Wild West playing Doctor Lovelas.

985
01:00:50.280 --> 01:00:52.159
Now I'm just thinking about how they did Doctor Lovelace

986
01:00:52.199 --> 01:00:55.800
in the Wildlive West film, which was Kenneth Brand as

987
01:00:55.800 --> 01:01:03.840
a spider. Yeah, there is, there's there's just a beautiful

988
01:01:03.880 --> 01:01:10.840
dignity to Alexander. According to these are the voyages. He's

989
01:01:10.880 --> 01:01:15.239
the three by Mark Cushman and uh, oh boy, I'm

990
01:01:15.280 --> 01:01:17.360
gonna forget her name again.

991
01:01:17.840 --> 01:01:20.880
I can't believe it's truly.

992
01:01:20.599 --> 01:01:23.079
Shameful by this point, considering that I've been consulting that

993
01:01:23.320 --> 01:01:32.760
Susan Osborne. Okay, unbelievable. Yeah, but Michael Dunn was also

994
01:01:32.760 --> 01:01:35.559
considered for the role of Spock because rodden Berry was like,

995
01:01:35.679 --> 01:01:38.840
let's we have to put another on the bridge, and

996
01:01:38.840 --> 01:01:45.159
this actor is very compelling and he's right. I it

997
01:01:45.800 --> 01:01:48.840
counter if he was not in this episode, this would

998
01:01:48.840 --> 01:01:51.679
be a very very weak sauce episode in terms of quality.

999
01:01:52.480 --> 01:01:55.320
But just every time that he is on screen, there's

1000
01:01:55.440 --> 01:01:57.000
just there's an X factor.

1001
01:01:58.159 --> 01:02:02.559
M Yeah, he is electric.

1002
01:02:03.760 --> 01:02:06.119
Yeah.

1003
01:02:06.159 --> 01:02:08.320
And also Spock and Kirk do a tweel de tweetl

1004
01:02:08.360 --> 01:02:18.360
dumb dance episode, Oh my gosh, after Spock is forced

1005
01:02:18.440 --> 01:02:24.519
to cry and laugh for the delight of Parmen and

1006
01:02:24.840 --> 01:02:30.159
the we come back from the act break and Alexander

1007
01:02:30.239 --> 01:02:34.599
not exactly knowing Spock, there's this beautiful piece of acting,

1008
01:02:34.800 --> 01:02:38.800
just background acting, where where Alexander just tentatively puts his

1009
01:02:38.840 --> 01:02:42.079
shoulder on Spock's body just to be like I'm here

1010
01:02:42.119 --> 01:02:45.920
for you, and then like it's just like, I'm not

1011
01:02:46.039 --> 01:02:48.639
entirely sure if this is okay, but i just want

1012
01:02:48.679 --> 01:02:50.000
you to know that I'm there for you.

1013
01:02:50.880 --> 01:02:53.760
Can I ask you so doctor know all you were

1014
01:02:53.800 --> 01:03:00.760
talking about disability politics and yes, well a representation, yes, representation,

1015
01:03:01.480 --> 01:03:06.440
and Alexander being a little person in this like I'm

1016
01:03:06.519 --> 01:03:10.079
kind of curious you're And also the sort of when

1017
01:03:10.079 --> 01:03:13.119
we're talking about agency and things being taken away and

1018
01:03:13.159 --> 01:03:16.000
what it looks like, but like the marginalization of people

1019
01:03:16.039 --> 01:03:18.599
who are othered like what I don't know, Like how

1020
01:03:18.679 --> 01:03:19.880
is that landing for you?

1021
01:03:21.360 --> 01:03:27.440
I think one of the aspects of Alexander that really

1022
01:03:27.840 --> 01:03:32.599
just stays with me is that when kirk Spock and

1023
01:03:32.719 --> 01:03:37.679
McCoy figure out that it's an environmental factor that's giving

1024
01:03:37.719 --> 01:03:48.079
these the Platoniums that power, and he says, no, I

1025
01:03:48.800 --> 01:03:57.400
wonder and I'm saying this as somebody who is neurodivergent

1026
01:03:57.840 --> 01:04:08.840
ADHD division, a US division or people are you know,

1027
01:04:09.440 --> 01:04:14.159
dealing with physical disability or basically existing in a world

1028
01:04:14.159 --> 01:04:19.519
that is not made for people like me. M I

1029
01:04:20.280 --> 01:04:24.719
look at Alexander and his unwillingness to.

1030
01:04:28.440 --> 01:04:29.800
What is the word.

1031
01:04:31.920 --> 01:04:35.679
Is assimilate the wrong word participate, assimilate. That's a similar

1032
01:04:36.320 --> 01:04:40.119
because he doesn't want he doesn't want to be that.

1033
01:04:40.400 --> 01:04:43.599
He knows who he is, and he does not find

1034
01:04:43.679 --> 01:04:49.400
himself defined by that disability except through others definition of him.

1035
01:04:49.519 --> 01:04:54.639
Yes, the gaslighting notion that existed within the society until

1036
01:04:54.719 --> 01:04:59.440
Kirk's back and McQuay come down, and that feels extremely

1037
01:04:59.559 --> 01:05:02.679
relevant to now just being like no, no, no, no, no,

1038
01:05:03.000 --> 01:05:06.760
we are serving for the greater ideals that you're great

1039
01:05:06.840 --> 01:05:09.440
the loss for Plato put Forth.

1040
01:05:10.000 --> 01:05:12.599
And his coming out and being like I've realized it's

1041
01:05:12.639 --> 01:05:14.000
not me, it's them.

1042
01:05:14.079 --> 01:05:14.719
Yeah.

1043
01:05:14.880 --> 01:05:19.440
Oh listen, I say that about as all the time.

1044
01:05:21.400 --> 01:05:24.280
I'm the problem.

1045
01:05:24.280 --> 01:05:27.760
Just think this way, say just remember, don't be part

1046
01:05:27.760 --> 01:05:29.679
of the problem, be the entire problem.

1047
01:05:30.079 --> 01:05:35.199
Yeah, I've made my south through. Yeah, I mean that

1048
01:05:35.280 --> 01:05:37.480
is that is a message that I am like, ah, yes,

1049
01:05:37.840 --> 01:05:40.760
as someone yeah, moving through the world who's not the

1050
01:05:41.000 --> 01:05:44.239
like the norm like you know, like neurodivergins, these different

1051
01:05:44.320 --> 01:05:47.360
kinds of like outside of like gender identity and norms too,

1052
01:05:47.400 --> 01:05:51.360
it is pretty extraordinary to be like yes, right, ah,

1053
01:05:52.599 --> 01:05:55.840
you know, so it's pretty empowering. It's a really beautiful moment.

1054
01:05:57.119 --> 01:05:59.760
And that's a really beautiful moment too, like coming internally

1055
01:06:00.639 --> 01:06:05.280
and actually I actually do think the way that Kirk

1056
01:06:05.320 --> 01:06:07.760
interacted with him and that kind of that line that

1057
01:06:07.800 --> 01:06:10.079
where I come from, size, shape or color makes no

1058
01:06:10.119 --> 01:06:12.639
difference and nobody has the power.

1059
01:06:13.719 --> 01:06:13.880
Is.

1060
01:06:15.599 --> 01:06:18.880
Like I think. I sometimes am like yeah, yeah, because

1061
01:06:18.880 --> 01:06:22.519
I'm coming from this like angry perspective, but that actually,

1062
01:06:22.599 --> 01:06:25.920
really I think from the way I watched that the

1063
01:06:25.920 --> 01:06:29.280
way they interacted with each other did feel fundamentally respectful,

1064
01:06:29.320 --> 01:06:32.239
and so it felt really full of like hope in

1065
01:06:32.440 --> 01:06:36.760
true in truth and honesty, you know. And so I

1066
01:06:36.880 --> 01:06:37.800
though it was really lovely.

1067
01:06:38.039 --> 01:06:42.599
It's beautiful and also indicative not to be this guy,

1068
01:06:42.800 --> 01:06:48.079
but I'm going to be indicative of the white liberalism

1069
01:06:48.159 --> 01:06:52.119
that was running the show of being like, hey, even

1070
01:06:52.199 --> 01:06:57.039
though it was sis het white male, we and the

1071
01:06:57.079 --> 01:06:59.199
ship is pretty much ran by sis het white males.

1072
01:07:00.039 --> 01:07:04.280
We don't see race, color or creed orientation. It's all

1073
01:07:04.880 --> 01:07:09.559
it's all good, and it's still Michael Dunn being given this.

1074
01:07:10.639 --> 01:07:12.800
I'm patting myself on the back of being like, actually,

1075
01:07:12.840 --> 01:07:16.480
Star Trek was problematic at the time, good job, but

1076
01:07:16.679 --> 01:07:19.679
just also talking because I love to talk about the

1077
01:07:19.719 --> 01:07:23.239
narrative that that Star Trek puts forth itself in its

1078
01:07:23.239 --> 01:07:26.639
own marketing material being like the Great Liberal Show and

1079
01:07:26.679 --> 01:07:29.039
to be fair within the context of like other TV

1080
01:07:29.159 --> 01:07:35.400
shows at the time. Sure, yeah, also marketing materials.

1081
01:07:35.519 --> 01:07:40.079
He's segueing to the great, the great marketing moment.

1082
01:07:40.199 --> 01:07:43.519
The great it's a great marketing moment, which is the

1083
01:07:44.519 --> 01:07:46.679
maybe not necessarily a great marketing moment, but you know,

1084
01:07:46.880 --> 01:07:51.199
the reason that this episode is famous outside of I

1085
01:07:51.199 --> 01:07:53.840
think we've got a couple of meme moments that now

1086
01:07:53.880 --> 01:07:57.800
permeate the internet for existence. For example, Kirk slapping himself

1087
01:07:58.400 --> 01:08:01.119
classic gift that you can use, but alsome we'd have

1088
01:08:01.119 --> 01:08:05.880
to kiss between Kirk and O'Hora. Isn't that something.

1089
01:08:07.840 --> 01:08:10.280
If you were in the South then yeah, people were

1090
01:08:10.280 --> 01:08:15.920
losing their marbles, Yeah, because of missgenation. But the thing

1091
01:08:15.960 --> 01:08:17.600
you got to remember is that that was not the

1092
01:08:17.640 --> 01:08:20.039
first interracial kiss on television.

1093
01:08:20.399 --> 01:08:23.079
Mm hmmm, yeah. Can he talks about this and like

1094
01:08:23.119 --> 01:08:25.399
the way that when we say marketing, he's saying, like

1095
01:08:25.840 --> 01:08:28.279
the messaging that's been put out is this is the

1096
01:08:28.319 --> 01:08:29.920
first interracial kiss.

1097
01:08:29.960 --> 01:08:32.520
Which, make no mistake, there were people behind the scenes

1098
01:08:32.560 --> 01:08:35.199
that were very much pushing for like we want this

1099
01:08:35.279 --> 01:08:40.119
to happen, and then Shatner purposely sabotaging alternative takes to

1100
01:08:40.199 --> 01:08:44.520
make sure that the take that happened happened. Yeah, Shatner's

1101
01:08:44.520 --> 01:08:48.520
has been so many things, but him like according to

1102
01:08:48.600 --> 01:08:51.319
Michelle Nichols, like crossing his eyes during takes just to

1103
01:08:51.359 --> 01:08:55.079
make sure, and NBC is just like, we can't go

1104
01:08:55.159 --> 01:08:58.079
back and film more because that would cost money. Let's

1105
01:08:58.119 --> 01:09:01.079
just use it, go go, go where the third season

1106
01:09:01.159 --> 01:09:03.439
was and that's how. And then not only that, Fred

1107
01:09:03.479 --> 01:09:07.359
Freiberger really pushing for this, the showrunner at the time,

1108
01:09:08.079 --> 01:09:11.000
and then it seemed like that wasn't going to happen.

1109
01:09:11.319 --> 01:09:14.880
So then Freiberger calls roden Berry. It's like, you got

1110
01:09:14.880 --> 01:09:16.920
my back on this one. Roddenberry is enough of a

1111
01:09:16.960 --> 01:09:19.279
needle in the system of NBC to be like, yeah,

1112
01:09:19.359 --> 01:09:21.520
let's make sure that this happens. And so they make

1113
01:09:21.520 --> 01:09:24.920
sure that this happens. But yes, doctor Nol, you're asked

1114
01:09:25.079 --> 01:09:27.520
correct that this is not the first injur racial kiss

1115
01:09:27.800 --> 01:09:30.520
on TV. Please go on.

1116
01:09:32.319 --> 01:09:34.920
From what I understand, the first one was on I

1117
01:09:35.000 --> 01:09:41.640
Love Lucy. Yeah, because Ricky Ricardo was not a white dude. Yeah,

1118
01:09:42.079 --> 01:09:46.720
but the Cuban man, Yes, Cuban man kissing a woman

1119
01:09:46.760 --> 01:09:47.720
from upstate New York.

1120
01:09:48.279 --> 01:09:52.720
Yeah, which Lucille had to fight tooth and nail just

1121
01:09:52.760 --> 01:09:55.960
to make sure that Desi was cast on I Love Lucy,

1122
01:09:56.640 --> 01:09:59.119
which is so fascinating, But then we also just don't

1123
01:09:59.119 --> 01:10:01.520
consider it because DESI are and as is white passing.

1124
01:10:01.840 --> 01:10:03.199
At least I'm black and white.

1125
01:10:04.159 --> 01:10:09.079
Right, And you know, I was thinking about this a

1126
01:10:09.079 --> 01:10:13.640
bit because I think there's I was thinking about this sometimes.

1127
01:10:13.640 --> 01:10:16.960
I like watch media and I like engage critically.

1128
01:10:19.239 --> 01:10:21.960
Is it me am I the star wars.

1129
01:10:21.640 --> 01:10:25.640
Am I the Star treks am I the trekker across

1130
01:10:25.680 --> 01:10:32.000
the Stars? It's not the first interracial kiss. It's also

1131
01:10:32.000 --> 01:10:34.119
not even the first kiss between a black and a

1132
01:10:34.119 --> 01:10:36.840
white person. It isn't the it is like in the

1133
01:10:36.880 --> 01:10:39.479
first like fictionalized one. Is that right?

1134
01:10:40.079 --> 01:10:42.439
According to these are the voyage is season three, and

1135
01:10:42.520 --> 01:10:44.439
please correct me if I'm wrong with Doctor Noel, But

1136
01:10:44.600 --> 01:10:48.560
the first interracial kiss that was on TV was I

1137
01:10:48.600 --> 01:10:51.600
think a peck on the cheek between Nancy Sinatra and

1138
01:10:51.600 --> 01:10:52.600
Sammy Davis Jr.

1139
01:10:53.159 --> 01:10:55.159
Okay, so when you say interracial, you need to be

1140
01:10:55.279 --> 01:10:58.399
very careful with the way you're using that term. Please

1141
01:10:59.159 --> 01:11:04.279
in this instance, because you have a white woman and

1142
01:11:04.319 --> 01:11:07.199
a black man, or as we've gotten Plato step children,

1143
01:11:07.720 --> 01:11:11.119
a black woman and a white man. A big deal

1144
01:11:11.159 --> 01:11:15.039
at this point is missagenation. I mean, when was loving

1145
01:11:15.119 --> 01:11:17.279
versus the state of Virginia decided.

1146
01:11:19.119 --> 01:11:21.079
Is that it was the sixties.

1147
01:11:21.640 --> 01:11:24.399
It was in the sixties. I don't have the precise date,

1148
01:11:24.479 --> 01:11:30.720
but that was that was a factor because at that

1149
01:11:30.920 --> 01:11:34.680
point the pint we've also got films. We've also got

1150
01:11:34.680 --> 01:11:36.439
films like look Who's Coming to dinner?

1151
01:11:36.840 --> 01:11:42.439
Mm hm oh that was the thirty fifties.

1152
01:11:41.960 --> 01:11:42.800
Sixties.

1153
01:11:42.800 --> 01:11:44.800
Oh, the sixties. Oh my gosh, I'm thinking Katherine Hepburn's

1154
01:11:44.800 --> 01:11:45.359
how I went back.

1155
01:11:45.359 --> 01:11:47.119
But well, no, Katherine Hepbern.

1156
01:11:47.159 --> 01:11:50.119
But she's the she's the mother, right, she's I was

1157
01:11:50.159 --> 01:11:50.760
thinking young.

1158
01:11:51.960 --> 01:11:54.760
Oh no, no, no, no, it was her and Spencer Tracy

1159
01:11:54.800 --> 01:11:55.439
as the parents.

1160
01:11:56.760 --> 01:11:59.920
Yes, okay, so it's like in it's in the culture

1161
01:12:00.079 --> 01:12:05.479
all exact right. Oh. Interesting, Yes, And this.

1162
01:12:05.560 --> 01:12:09.640
Could also be part because I talked about NBC making

1163
01:12:09.760 --> 01:12:12.840
a concerted effort to hire more women behind the scenes

1164
01:12:13.920 --> 01:12:17.199
because they want the optics of look at us. We're

1165
01:12:17.279 --> 01:12:21.880
hiring more women behind the scenes that do business with.

1166
01:12:21.800 --> 01:12:25.439
Us in the nineteen sixties, given the emergence of second

1167
01:12:25.479 --> 01:12:28.880
wave feminism following up Betty for Dan and so forth. Yeah,

1168
01:12:29.000 --> 01:12:30.720
that makes a lot of sense.

1169
01:12:31.960 --> 01:12:36.239
Yeah, there's an interesting like I was reading, because it

1170
01:12:36.720 --> 01:12:40.920
is significant. There's a reason why people talk about this

1171
01:12:41.000 --> 01:12:46.239
in a significant way, and I wanted to see. I

1172
01:12:46.279 --> 01:12:49.199
remember I was reading about Michelle Nichols's experience with it,

1173
01:12:49.439 --> 01:12:52.039
and so I was thinking, what is her experience being

1174
01:12:52.079 --> 01:12:55.119
in the thing? And she sees it as a highlight

1175
01:12:56.359 --> 01:13:00.359
because for her it was so important and is a

1176
01:13:00.399 --> 01:13:03.159
real joy to being like, I guess a kiss Captain Kirk,

1177
01:13:03.880 --> 01:13:06.239
and that's probably She even says that she's like, I

1178
01:13:06.319 --> 01:13:08.279
love you know, but this coming like what is her

1179
01:13:08.359 --> 01:13:13.800
personal safety with the thing, like in her empowerment in it?

1180
01:13:14.560 --> 01:13:17.960
And that's valuable I think to remember and to think

1181
01:13:17.960 --> 01:13:18.960
about what.

1182
01:13:19.159 --> 01:13:25.840
Oh sorry, that just made me think O a Roddenberry

1183
01:13:25.920 --> 01:13:28.800
line so great, I highlighted it in a different color,

1184
01:13:29.279 --> 01:13:33.640
just to make sure where it is just like Roddenberry,

1185
01:13:34.079 --> 01:13:39.880
you guy, uh from These Are the Voyages Season three.

1186
01:13:39.960 --> 01:13:43.439
Roddenberry's later said Captain Kirk and Lieutenant Horace kiss was

1187
01:13:43.439 --> 01:13:45.840
an integral part of the storyline, and it never occurred

1188
01:13:45.840 --> 01:13:48.039
to me to question whether Kirk should kiss a black

1189
01:13:48.079 --> 01:13:51.439
person or not. I had by that time achieved a

1190
01:13:51.439 --> 01:13:54.920
certain clarity about those things. Dot as are a matter

1191
01:13:54.960 --> 01:13:58.119
of fact. Long before Captain Kirk kissed Lieutenant Aura, I

1192
01:13:58.319 --> 01:13:59.840
kissed her many times.

1193
01:14:00.279 --> 01:14:02.600
Oh wow, Oh I forgot about that.

1194
01:14:02.840 --> 01:14:05.039
Oh well, now we're getting too The sexualization of white

1195
01:14:05.079 --> 01:14:08.359
women and black women rather black women is what I'm

1196
01:14:08.359 --> 01:14:12.640
gonna say, the sexualization of black women. And yeah, and.

1197
01:14:12.840 --> 01:14:16.960
Let me just say this, as far as Michelle Nichols goes,

1198
01:14:23.199 --> 01:14:26.000
that helped to get her where she needed to go.

1199
01:14:26.159 --> 01:14:29.960
That is called using your assets. We do also need

1200
01:14:30.000 --> 01:14:33.479
to acknowledge the rampant power imbalance that can go along

1201
01:14:33.520 --> 01:14:38.560
with that. Yes, but I'm not going to shame anybody.

1202
01:14:39.880 --> 01:14:43.399
Yeah, is a literal queen, you know.

1203
01:14:45.079 --> 01:14:51.239
Sorry, have we talked about Michelle possibly leaving Star Trek.

1204
01:14:52.399 --> 01:14:53.560
What do you mean that? Mlka?

1205
01:14:54.359 --> 01:14:56.880
Yeah, she was, She was going to go work in

1206
01:14:56.960 --> 01:15:01.279
Duke Ellington's band and who can right? Yeah?

1207
01:15:01.800 --> 01:15:04.000
Yeah, and that it was Martin Luther King who convinced

1208
01:15:04.000 --> 01:15:05.680
her to stay because how important it was.

1209
01:15:06.039 --> 01:15:10.119
Yeah, representation. Whoopi Goldberg was inspired to be on TV

1210
01:15:10.239 --> 01:15:12.319
because she saw Aura on there.

1211
01:15:12.680 --> 01:15:16.279
Yeah, it's a very it's a very tough kind of

1212
01:15:16.279 --> 01:15:18.800
thing to watch because the context of the kiss in

1213
01:15:18.800 --> 01:15:22.079
this episode is both of them do not have agency.

1214
01:15:22.479 --> 01:15:25.640
They are being forced to do a thing, So it

1215
01:15:25.680 --> 01:15:30.079
feels horrifying when it does not feel empowering.

1216
01:15:30.520 --> 01:15:35.600
Liberally us wonderful liberals can be like, look progress, but

1217
01:15:35.680 --> 01:15:39.199
then the text also can kind of satiate the south

1218
01:15:39.520 --> 01:15:41.640
of being like, isn't this disgusting?

1219
01:15:42.199 --> 01:15:43.960
But then we can also have the other side of

1220
01:15:44.000 --> 01:15:45.760
it as being like, look at us, we're hite liberals.

1221
01:15:45.760 --> 01:15:47.239
We think those are a bad thing. And it's like,

1222
01:15:47.279 --> 01:15:50.119
but what did it mean at the time? Yeah, and

1223
01:15:51.039 --> 01:15:52.039
for what they're trying to do.

1224
01:15:52.520 --> 01:15:55.239
I think something that we're forgetting here is that as

1225
01:15:55.239 --> 01:15:58.960
that kiss was taking place, Kirk wasn't focused on a Hura.

1226
01:15:59.680 --> 01:16:04.840
He was making eye contact with Harman's wife, who was

1227
01:16:04.880 --> 01:16:09.439
getting very hot under the college. She was seriously I

1228
01:16:09.520 --> 01:16:14.199
have seldom seen somebody that thirsty, but dear god, she

1229
01:16:14.319 --> 01:16:15.439
needed a drink that.

1230
01:16:18.680 --> 01:16:25.039
I have had a dry period, right, he was. And

1231
01:16:25.119 --> 01:16:28.600
another aspect to it that I do think is important

1232
01:16:28.800 --> 01:16:33.880
is even though it was against their wills, I was

1233
01:16:33.920 --> 01:16:36.600
actually so struck by how deeply he was trying to

1234
01:16:36.640 --> 01:16:40.279
take care of her. Yes, like he which that is

1235
01:16:40.680 --> 01:16:43.399
That is part of Star Trek too. I I feel

1236
01:16:43.399 --> 01:16:45.920
like Kirk has always been so protective of Ahura and

1237
01:16:46.079 --> 01:16:48.840
his all of his people, all of his people. He

1238
01:16:48.880 --> 01:16:51.000
loves them very much, who respects them, And I think

1239
01:16:51.079 --> 01:16:52.399
that's what he was seeing, and he was just like

1240
01:16:52.479 --> 01:16:55.520
trying to give her this courage and be like, I

1241
01:16:55.560 --> 01:16:57.600
am with you, I am safe. It is okay. I'm

1242
01:16:57.640 --> 01:17:00.159
so sorry for this. And I did make it at

1243
01:17:00.199 --> 01:17:05.279
least feel like there wasn't any like he Yeah, while

1244
01:17:05.279 --> 01:17:07.399
we do not have this agency, we still have this

1245
01:17:07.600 --> 01:17:11.439
like we are safe together, which softened it for me slightly.

1246
01:17:12.039 --> 01:17:16.640
Yeah, I would agree with that. But yeah, as far

1247
01:17:16.680 --> 01:17:19.720
as the platoniums, yeah, they're the worst.

1248
01:17:20.199 --> 01:17:25.560
Fuck not exactly, I would say not great. Also no

1249
01:17:25.640 --> 01:17:27.239
fundamental understanding of Plato.

1250
01:17:28.319 --> 01:17:31.479
Also that I was looking at that and thinking, uh,

1251
01:17:31.560 --> 01:17:35.119
did you actually read Plato? Did you possibly read the

1252
01:17:35.159 --> 01:17:35.840
follow up? You know?

1253
01:17:35.880 --> 01:17:40.159
With Aristotle, they're like, we don't read sequels and we don't.

1254
01:17:39.960 --> 01:17:43.880
Read the originals, can't use like the Sparks notes version.

1255
01:17:45.399 --> 01:17:49.640
Now, obviously I've read all of Plato and Aristotle clearly,

1256
01:17:49.720 --> 01:17:52.880
but for people that like might not have like read

1257
01:17:52.920 --> 01:17:57.039
Plato and Aristotle like and and again, I can't clarify enough.

1258
01:17:57.079 --> 01:17:59.800
I've read all a Plato in Aristotle. I can talk

1259
01:18:00.720 --> 01:18:06.399
very long and very articulate about both of those men

1260
01:18:06.880 --> 01:18:10.920
yep uh. But for like Falk, I haven't read them.

1261
01:18:11.039 --> 01:18:12.399
Is there any way that you could give like a

1262
01:18:12.439 --> 01:18:15.960
cursory overview of like what their philosophies are and how

1263
01:18:16.279 --> 01:18:20.079
the Platonians are not existing within that paradigamond are instead

1264
01:18:20.199 --> 01:18:24.039
using those notions to pervert it into a fascistic nightmare.

1265
01:18:24.680 --> 01:18:32.319
Nope, I can tell you what it's outside of my wheelhouse,

1266
01:18:32.359 --> 01:18:34.960
and frankly, I'm more of a Socrates kind of girl anyway.

1267
01:18:35.640 --> 01:18:38.359
Oh yeah, if you stop and think about what he

1268
01:18:38.479 --> 01:18:42.359
must have said, just as his last words, I drank.

1269
01:18:42.399 --> 01:18:45.039
What that's really running?

1270
01:18:46.000 --> 01:18:46.880
It's also a.

1271
01:18:46.880 --> 01:18:51.039
Rip from the movie Top Secret starring Gal Comer.

1272
01:18:51.439 --> 01:18:54.119
Oh of your rules? I mean, I can tell you

1273
01:18:54.239 --> 01:18:56.720
right it's not which is what they're talking about there?

1274
01:18:56.720 --> 01:18:58.760
I don't think there's anything. And I'll tell you who

1275
01:18:58.800 --> 01:19:01.199
is an actual expert? Is my partner?

1276
01:19:03.520 --> 01:19:07.199
Yeah, I'm a historian and cultural scholar. I don't do philosophy,

1277
01:19:08.079 --> 01:19:09.520
philosophy and I don't do math.

1278
01:19:09.880 --> 01:19:11.000
Can you bring Jolan here?

1279
01:19:11.000 --> 01:19:12.520
We go grab like I'm here.

1280
01:19:12.520 --> 01:19:14.560
I think maybe we'll grab Joel later.

1281
01:19:15.520 --> 01:19:18.520
Later, I'll tell you what they're certainly not. They are

1282
01:19:18.560 --> 01:19:22.960
certainly not you genicists who are just believing in a

1283
01:19:23.079 --> 01:19:28.720
strange hedonistic way of life, or in the intellectual superiority

1284
01:19:28.800 --> 01:19:32.000
or physical superiority of anyone there. It's it's if anything,

1285
01:19:32.000 --> 01:19:33.840
it's about like what it is to be a person

1286
01:19:33.880 --> 01:19:34.359
in the world.

1287
01:19:35.000 --> 01:19:37.640
I would like to give the cursory understanding a player

1288
01:19:37.680 --> 01:19:41.079
from These are Voyages Season three by Mark Cushman and

1289
01:19:41.159 --> 01:19:42.479
Susan was Born.

1290
01:19:45.520 --> 01:19:49.000
You nailed the dismount You're good job, buddy.

1291
01:19:49.720 --> 01:19:57.119
Uh number one, I'm an ally? What huh?

1292
01:19:57.279 --> 01:19:59.199
You said you were an ally? And I wasn't sure

1293
01:19:59.239 --> 01:20:03.399
if you were talking of out in Platonic terms Aristotilian

1294
01:20:03.479 --> 01:20:05.039
terms terms.

1295
01:20:05.319 --> 01:20:08.800
I'm just like such an ally, just like I you

1296
01:20:08.840 --> 01:20:10.920
put it in front of me. I'm an ally, so.

1297
01:20:11.119 --> 01:20:17.680
Like an ally to this stick figured. My niece made,

1298
01:20:18.159 --> 01:20:23.039
uh like I'm an alarm?

1299
01:20:23.159 --> 01:20:23.359
Yeah?

1300
01:20:23.720 --> 01:20:24.960
What are they say?

1301
01:20:25.159 --> 01:20:25.439
Uh?

1302
01:20:25.520 --> 01:20:29.199
The actual text here I go uh. Plano was an

1303
01:20:29.239 --> 01:20:33.800
advocate of something akin to class snoppery in the Republic.

1304
01:20:34.039 --> 01:20:38.079
Plano's ideas regarding the perfect society are put forth. Is

1305
01:20:38.199 --> 01:20:42.800
described there as being of a tripartite class structure corresponding

1306
01:20:42.840 --> 01:20:47.279
to appetite spirit reason. The appetite comes from the workers,

1307
01:20:47.279 --> 01:20:50.279
the greatest number in the society. The spirit comes from

1308
01:20:50.279 --> 01:20:52.760
those willing to die for the society. It's warriors. The

1309
01:20:52.840 --> 01:20:55.680
reason comes from the philosopher kings. Those who possess the

1310
01:20:55.680 --> 01:20:58.840
greatest intelligence, have a passion for the study and accumulation

1311
01:20:58.880 --> 01:21:01.159
of wisdom in our best suited to government. The appetite

1312
01:21:01.199 --> 01:21:05.439
and spirit. People of this type, people like Plato and Socrates,

1313
01:21:05.680 --> 01:21:08.680
we're few and far between it, according to Plato, deserving

1314
01:21:08.680 --> 01:21:11.279
of a higher class standing. And it looks like the

1315
01:21:11.279 --> 01:21:15.279
Platonians have kind of eliminated, uh, the appetite in the spirit,

1316
01:21:15.319 --> 01:21:18.880
and I'm simply gone to reason and are just looking

1317
01:21:18.920 --> 01:21:21.520
for any reason to just be like, no, pitch, Poch,

1318
01:21:21.640 --> 01:21:23.840
you're bad, so we're wrong.

1319
01:21:24.359 --> 01:21:27.239
It is kind of it's taking a concept and it's

1320
01:21:27.399 --> 01:21:30.560
it's twisting it right fundamentally.

1321
01:21:30.920 --> 01:21:35.039
It seems broken. Yeah, because it benefits those in power,

1322
01:21:35.079 --> 01:21:39.039
because you can just say, oh, I'm smart's.

1323
01:21:39.079 --> 01:21:41.199
Going to listen to this, and he's going to be like,

1324
01:21:41.479 --> 01:21:43.199
Aspen cannot believe you.

1325
01:21:44.079 --> 01:21:46.399
I just feel sorry for all the tables at your

1326
01:21:46.399 --> 01:21:48.560
place because they're all going to be flipped. Whenever Joel

1327
01:21:48.600 --> 01:21:49.680
hears this, he's.

1328
01:21:49.520 --> 01:21:51.720
Gonna be like, here's all my Plato.

1329
01:21:51.479 --> 01:21:55.840
Books in a lot of ways that divide that you're

1330
01:21:55.880 --> 01:21:58.720
talking about reminds me very much of the film Metropolis

1331
01:22:00.119 --> 01:22:06.800
from the nineteen twenties, and with the idea of the

1332
01:22:06.800 --> 01:22:09.920
there must be a mediator between the head and the hands,

1333
01:22:10.279 --> 01:22:14.239
and the mediator is the heart. So you have your

1334
01:22:14.279 --> 01:22:20.319
triparthrite structure, not necessarily with warriors, but more with intermediaries,

1335
01:22:20.520 --> 01:22:22.159
so you get a little bit of that, but you

1336
01:22:22.279 --> 01:22:25.760
definitely have the reason and the appetite being represented there

1337
01:22:26.279 --> 01:22:30.000
so being able to take that in from our republic

1338
01:22:30.119 --> 01:22:34.520
era Germany. Another sci fi connection that we can pull

1339
01:22:34.560 --> 01:22:36.520
in this is I like.

1340
01:22:36.520 --> 01:22:41.920
This tripart ideas because then there's also almost a touch

1341
01:22:41.960 --> 01:22:46.920
of a uh Freudian like super ego in ego I hate.

1342
01:22:46.680 --> 01:22:47.600
For it so much.

1343
01:22:47.800 --> 01:22:50.600
Yeah, real, he's a shit, But I mean I'm just

1344
01:22:50.800 --> 01:22:53.279
know just from a fairy standpoint, I mean yeah, but

1345
01:22:53.399 --> 01:22:55.720
also yeah, and but or even like when we talk

1346
01:22:55.760 --> 01:22:58.880
about well, we also talk about sometimes the like pathos

1347
01:22:58.880 --> 01:23:01.600
et those logos. I know, we're talking about this in

1348
01:23:01.680 --> 01:23:04.199
terms of class structure, like who is deserving of something?

1349
01:23:04.239 --> 01:23:06.479
But I am I am very interested in these sort

1350
01:23:06.520 --> 01:23:10.279
of different parts and it's always triparted of like who

1351
01:23:10.560 --> 01:23:11.680
is dictating over another.

1352
01:23:12.159 --> 01:23:15.880
You know, I wonder if one of the other reasons

1353
01:23:15.880 --> 01:23:19.199
that they kept Alexander in addition to they needed somebody

1354
01:23:19.279 --> 01:23:22.640
to kick around. If they didn't have somebody at the

1355
01:23:22.640 --> 01:23:27.760
bottom of the pile, you don't have a pile anymore, right,

1356
01:23:29.399 --> 01:23:34.479
Who are you above? Exactly? And as power usually looks

1357
01:23:34.520 --> 01:23:39.159
for a way to elevate itself above another group. Yes,

1358
01:23:39.960 --> 01:23:43.199
if you yes, you can't stand tall if you're all

1359
01:23:43.239 --> 01:23:43.760
the same hype.

1360
01:23:44.319 --> 01:23:48.880
Yep. It's like that episode of Community where they kick.

1361
01:23:49.640 --> 01:23:51.760
I was thinking the exact same thing.

1362
01:23:52.840 --> 01:23:54.800
They kick peers out and then they start being mean

1363
01:23:54.840 --> 01:23:56.840
to each other's they have to break feers back in

1364
01:23:56.920 --> 01:23:59.199
so they can have someone to be mean to. Yeah,

1365
01:23:59.239 --> 01:24:00.199
I mean he deserved that.

1366
01:24:00.319 --> 01:24:06.119
But uh, to bring around into terms of commonality is

1367
01:24:06.159 --> 01:24:09.039
what is completely unexpected is that both these episodes are

1368
01:24:09.039 --> 01:24:15.800
looking at uh stratification for lack of another term, They're

1369
01:24:16.239 --> 01:24:22.279
they're both investigating power dynamics. Star Trek being Star Trek

1370
01:24:22.520 --> 01:24:28.039
quite almost almost literally, if not literally, by just going

1371
01:24:28.079 --> 01:24:30.800
this is wrong and then coming in and trying to

1372
01:24:31.199 --> 01:24:33.560
do the Star Trek thing and being like, let's wreck

1373
01:24:33.600 --> 01:24:37.800
your society because it's wrong, and then Star Wars through

1374
01:24:37.840 --> 01:24:43.199
action by grievous wanting to be on Sith, not being

1375
01:24:43.199 --> 01:24:46.680
able to be a Sith and asking people and demonstrating

1376
01:24:48.800 --> 01:24:53.319
just killing people because he's he's got a beef to quash.

1377
01:24:53.600 --> 01:24:57.359
And similarly, uh, the power dynamics between kit Fisto and

1378
01:24:57.479 --> 01:25:01.039
ni Dar uh Nadar represent the new guarden a dar

1379
01:25:01.119 --> 01:25:05.520
wanting a fight. Uh, power dynamics all around.

1380
01:25:06.399 --> 01:25:11.560
Also, maybe feel deeply unsettled in different ways? Sure, one

1381
01:25:11.600 --> 01:25:22.159
way positively, one way bad negative negative positive negative. Yeah, yeah, surprising.

1382
01:25:22.600 --> 01:25:27.600
Sometimes we like struggle. I feel like for thematic connections. Weirdly,

1383
01:25:27.760 --> 01:25:31.399
I did feel like, like, what is it agency and

1384
01:25:32.319 --> 01:25:33.159
power power?

1385
01:25:33.920 --> 01:25:37.640
Yeah, Star Trek literally Star Wars through action.

1386
01:25:39.640 --> 01:25:47.039
Yes, absolutely, Ah, this is what. Yeah. Well, we have

1387
01:25:47.319 --> 01:25:48.920
a couple of other things. Are you still are you

1388
01:25:48.960 --> 01:25:51.560
going to go a little bit past just to kind

1389
01:25:51.560 --> 01:25:52.680
a couple more things?

1390
01:25:53.119 --> 01:25:57.079
Oh? Have me as long as I am at your

1391
01:25:57.119 --> 01:25:58.039
disposal of the season.

1392
01:25:58.479 --> 01:26:00.960
Okay, well we won't. We'll keep You're out to.

1393
01:26:01.960 --> 01:26:04.000
Get some like okay, a couple of you got a

1394
01:26:04.039 --> 01:26:05.039
look on your face.

1395
01:26:07.279 --> 01:26:10.319
Well I just noticed that Aspen's cheeks are getting a

1396
01:26:10.359 --> 01:26:16.279
little rosy. Oh dam, Aspen's got some hearts getting into

1397
01:26:16.319 --> 01:26:21.800
their eyes and as might askpen might be getting a

1398
01:26:21.800 --> 01:26:25.079
little Twitter painted because because because.

1399
01:26:25.359 --> 01:26:28.720
Mhm, it's a ship time a long time ago, it's

1400
01:26:28.720 --> 01:26:34.319
ship time. This ship a boat hated a game, but

1401
01:26:34.520 --> 01:26:38.199
none of them could war mind drive into high birth space.

1402
01:26:41.199 --> 01:26:49.039
Ship time worlds can't be that second place. Ship time

1403
01:26:49.119 --> 01:26:53.760
captains talk on a hallo kron, I wanted a song.

1404
01:26:54.359 --> 01:26:59.079
I penned a song for seventeen more minutes and thighs.

1405
01:26:58.560 --> 01:27:03.479
In super hind ship Ships ship ship ship be ship ships.

1406
01:27:03.359 --> 01:27:11.920
Or USS Enterprise dt F. Don't you take my walk

1407
01:27:12.000 --> 01:27:15.840
lighter and clip bit? Don't you take my Richard buddy

1408
01:27:15.920 --> 01:27:20.319
and nipit? If you spill the tea, I'm gonna sip bit.

1409
01:27:20.920 --> 01:27:24.119
My starship ask one. What are we doing?

1410
01:27:24.600 --> 01:27:27.039
Oh, we're gonna play starship bit, which is where we're

1411
01:27:27.039 --> 01:27:30.520
gonna name our favorite vehicles slash starship sets fly through

1412
01:27:30.520 --> 01:27:34.439
the sky from either property either so you don't have

1413
01:27:34.479 --> 01:27:38.079
to pick one from each in your favorite ships, which

1414
01:27:38.119 --> 01:27:41.039
can be both like canon they actually happen in the

1415
01:27:41.079 --> 01:27:44.920
show or your AO three fan fiction dot net desires

1416
01:27:45.399 --> 01:27:48.760
either way, and there's no judgment. I feel like I've

1417
01:27:48.760 --> 01:27:50.159
had chips where I'm like I feel like, I know

1418
01:27:50.239 --> 01:27:52.039
this is fundamentally not good.

1419
01:27:52.000 --> 01:27:56.039
But like I should uh. Previous examples of batships that

1420
01:27:56.079 --> 01:28:01.239
asked on this pick include Rex with a jet pack, Stilvia,

1421
01:28:01.359 --> 01:28:03.640
the Cat a Flying Leaf.

1422
01:28:04.680 --> 01:28:06.000
When I made bad of it, like I was, like,

1423
01:28:06.000 --> 01:28:08.680
I feel like this is an abusive relationship. I'm so sorry.

1424
01:28:08.760 --> 01:28:14.000
But yeah, and also asn't picked people, Okay, they.

1425
01:28:13.920 --> 01:28:20.159
Went with other things, so we'll start with again. We

1426
01:28:20.199 --> 01:28:22.800
say starships, but sometimes we don't see a lot of them,

1427
01:28:22.840 --> 01:28:25.800
so it could also be a vehicle of your choice.

1428
01:28:26.039 --> 01:28:28.439
We also, because you are I guess you get carte

1429
01:28:28.439 --> 01:28:30.039
blanche of whatever you want.

1430
01:28:30.640 --> 01:28:33.239
Yeah. You could also just tell us your favorite ships

1431
01:28:33.239 --> 01:28:34.720
in general, and either.

1432
01:28:35.960 --> 01:28:40.800
Because it's hard from the lair of grievous, I would

1433
01:28:40.800 --> 01:28:43.760
say the Jedi Starfighter is my favorite.

1434
01:28:43.600 --> 01:28:45.680
Outstanding, ah, the.

1435
01:28:48.560 --> 01:28:52.199
Yes and R six in the back. Yeah, that's all good.

1436
01:28:52.600 --> 01:28:56.319
The Delta seven B eighth or Sprite class light interceptor

1437
01:28:58.119 --> 01:29:02.800
before it, I that was mine too. It's okay, I'll

1438
01:29:02.840 --> 01:29:06.439
choose a different one. But because I I'm with you,

1439
01:29:06.439 --> 01:29:09.199
you said this at the top. I love the Hyperspace

1440
01:29:09.279 --> 01:29:15.520
Ring so much, so good. It's like, what a concept. God,

1441
01:29:15.600 --> 01:29:16.199
it's great.

1442
01:29:17.159 --> 01:29:19.600
I will say The one thing that might be improved

1443
01:29:19.720 --> 01:29:22.039
is what they did in The Acolyte, where they made

1444
01:29:22.079 --> 01:29:24.399
the whole thing a wing. It's a big honkin wing.

1445
01:29:25.039 --> 01:29:28.439
Oh, oh my gosh, that's so cool.

1446
01:29:29.079 --> 01:29:31.640
I'm still an episode one of The Acolyte, although I

1447
01:29:31.720 --> 01:29:34.520
have made it through all of Aska, and so they

1448
01:29:34.600 --> 01:29:37.800
use another hyperspace ring in that one too.

1449
01:29:37.920 --> 01:29:39.119
Oh that's a big old guy.

1450
01:29:39.439 --> 01:29:41.399
Oh that one's a monster.

1451
01:29:41.840 --> 01:29:46.199
That's a big old ring. We love that. We love

1452
01:29:46.239 --> 01:29:51.039
an even bigger erspace ring. Oh gosh, Oh, be so

1453
01:29:51.079 --> 01:29:51.560
interested to hear.

1454
01:29:51.920 --> 01:29:54.520
You'll remember in The Force Awakens whenever they were like,

1455
01:29:54.760 --> 01:29:57.560
it's just like the Death Star, and the scientist is like,

1456
01:29:57.640 --> 01:30:01.880
it's nothing like the Death Star and it's just bigger.

1457
01:30:03.039 --> 01:30:03.600
A little bit.

1458
01:30:04.079 --> 01:30:08.199
Yeah, but it's not the same for Ahsoka. No, because

1459
01:30:08.199 --> 01:30:09.000
it's really cool.

1460
01:30:09.520 --> 01:30:11.840
No, I'm just the Force Awakens, a movie that I

1461
01:30:11.880 --> 01:30:15.359
now like and have come around to. Yeah, there's just

1462
01:30:15.520 --> 01:30:17.479
still some moments in that movie around just like that.

1463
01:30:17.760 --> 01:30:21.560
That's we're not talking about Force Awakens, but we're talking

1464
01:30:21.560 --> 01:30:23.880
about but but but I did just want to say

1465
01:30:24.039 --> 01:30:28.199
to your earlier point, doctor Mill about not having enough

1466
01:30:29.000 --> 01:30:32.119
like action figures or toys, especially for like little girls

1467
01:30:32.199 --> 01:30:38.000
or like female characters. I my friend's daughter fell so

1468
01:30:38.199 --> 01:30:40.760
deeply in love with Ray when she saw the Force awakens,

1469
01:30:41.079 --> 01:30:43.479
and would is like dress up like her all the time.

1470
01:30:43.600 --> 01:30:45.479
And I think about that every time. I'm just like,

1471
01:30:45.520 --> 01:30:48.319
you know, what things might be like. I might be like, well,

1472
01:30:48.359 --> 01:30:51.199
I have some criticisms of this, but like then I

1473
01:30:51.199 --> 01:30:52.399
think of her and I'm like.

1474
01:30:52.760 --> 01:30:53.239
This is good.

1475
01:30:54.000 --> 01:30:58.039
So as far as I'm concerned, no media is ever

1476
01:30:58.119 --> 01:31:04.000
going to be perfect. Yeah, I just there will always

1477
01:31:04.039 --> 01:31:06.279
be some Yeah, I know what I said.

1478
01:31:08.760 --> 01:31:10.720
Sorry, I don't have challenges on Blue Ray yet.

1479
01:31:11.079 --> 01:31:12.239
Oh it's a perfect film.

1480
01:31:12.319 --> 01:31:13.159
It's a perfect.

1481
01:31:14.840 --> 01:31:17.399
It's good that everybody has an opinion, don't you think.

1482
01:31:25.039 --> 01:31:27.800
Oh my gosh, just like it's just so savage.

1483
01:31:27.720 --> 01:31:31.199
My gosh, I feel the spice over here.

1484
01:31:33.600 --> 01:31:36.359
That's a beauty Okay. So that's a beautiful ship. That

1485
01:31:36.520 --> 01:31:37.720
was it? Okay. So I have to think of a

1486
01:31:37.720 --> 01:31:39.640
different I have to think of a different vehicle from

1487
01:31:39.680 --> 01:31:42.319
either either in you two and you too?

1488
01:31:42.760 --> 01:31:43.479
Oh I got one?

1489
01:31:43.760 --> 01:31:44.880
Oh, you got one? What's yours?

1490
01:31:45.720 --> 01:31:48.199
I gotta go last, No, I will give.

1491
01:31:48.079 --> 01:31:49.199
Me you got it? Like you know, it's like when

1492
01:31:49.199 --> 01:31:50.880
you're ordering dinner and you're like get back to me.

1493
01:31:51.119 --> 01:31:52.560
Sorry, I have to go last.

1494
01:31:52.960 --> 01:31:56.159
Okay, then let me think you.

1495
01:31:56.119 --> 01:31:58.319
Can shape a show. Sorry, I gotta go last.

1496
01:31:58.359 --> 01:32:02.560
Oh my gosh, you're the worst. What other ships were

1497
01:32:02.560 --> 01:32:04.640
there as?

1498
01:32:04.760 --> 01:32:07.800
Then we can like the same ship. It's a yeah,

1499
01:32:09.640 --> 01:32:10.279
I will share.

1500
01:32:10.479 --> 01:32:14.039
There are no rules, Kenny, there are no rules. We

1501
01:32:14.159 --> 01:32:18.439
picked it the same one. We broke it. We broke it.

1502
01:32:19.039 --> 01:32:23.000
You know what, what it's not? Well, we'll achieve a

1503
01:32:23.039 --> 01:32:27.000
comfortable medium because we've liked other Jedi star Fighters, but

1504
01:32:27.159 --> 01:32:28.880
we've never seen this Jedi star Fighters.

1505
01:32:28.920 --> 01:32:31.439
What if I just like the hyper what if I

1506
01:32:31.520 --> 01:32:36.199
like the Hyperlink pistols, I'll take part of it?

1507
01:32:36.479 --> 01:32:40.359
Perfect, Okay, it fits with the rules. Mine's Captain Kirk.

1508
01:32:41.439 --> 01:32:42.520
Oh because he's a horse.

1509
01:32:44.439 --> 01:32:47.119
Oh, there's only one thing I can say to this

1510
01:32:48.880 --> 01:32:52.960
exactly Nay, nay, nay.

1511
01:32:53.079 --> 01:32:53.399
It was.

1512
01:32:53.520 --> 01:32:57.479
It was disturbing and distressing and frankly to see him

1513
01:32:57.640 --> 01:33:03.000
saddled with that kind of behavior. I mean, I really

1514
01:33:03.039 --> 01:33:05.079
have to wonder what was spurring him on as he

1515
01:33:05.199 --> 01:33:08.720
was going through all of this. I mean, really, we

1516
01:33:09.119 --> 01:33:14.760
go from from a main event to something that is

1517
01:33:14.920 --> 01:33:18.399
simply clip clopping its way through the world of consent.

1518
01:33:19.760 --> 01:33:21.399
It's a pity but go on.

1519
01:33:22.039 --> 01:33:26.560
Oh my god, I hated it, but I loved it.

1520
01:33:28.960 --> 01:33:32.560
We'll get in there, sorry, Kenny.

1521
01:33:35.399 --> 01:33:38.039
That was the best moment of this entire podcast.

1522
01:33:38.119 --> 01:33:42.640
That we've ever had. Oh my god, man, he and

1523
01:33:42.680 --> 01:33:44.359
my partner are really other. Long. He's the one who

1524
01:33:44.399 --> 01:33:47.079
wrote the starship It song and he's brilliant. Oh my god,

1525
01:33:47.199 --> 01:33:50.680
get it, stopp look at me like that. You wrote

1526
01:33:50.680 --> 01:33:53.439
the starship song? Oh no, I stove that. Oh my god,

1527
01:33:53.640 --> 01:33:54.880
he's really easily.

1528
01:33:54.640 --> 01:33:57.720
Lost fun a little want to play, Yes, I will,

1529
01:33:57.800 --> 01:34:00.640
I will rain it. Bring it in.

1530
01:34:01.520 --> 01:34:05.119
Okay, let's move on to ships, like romantic ships from

1531
01:34:05.119 --> 01:34:06.880
either would you also like to go first?

1532
01:34:07.479 --> 01:34:11.000
So I've already spilled it for me. It's it's Spock

1533
01:34:11.079 --> 01:34:11.680
and Chapel.

1534
01:34:12.199 --> 01:34:14.960
Yeah, a beautiful ship as.

1535
01:34:14.840 --> 01:34:20.479
Yeah, because it's not just simply romantic. They cover a

1536
01:34:20.520 --> 01:34:22.439
lot of ground over time.

1537
01:34:23.760 --> 01:34:28.399
Yes, yes they do. Oh my gosh. Yeah, it's such

1538
01:34:28.439 --> 01:34:32.000
a it's such a it's like a it's a real tragedy.

1539
01:34:32.800 --> 01:34:35.479
Well. I also wonder if the Kiss would have hit

1540
01:34:36.159 --> 01:34:40.680
as well if it had been Spot and Acora. Mmmm.

1541
01:34:41.760 --> 01:34:43.199
And the answer is no, I don't think it would

1542
01:34:43.199 --> 01:34:44.840
have had the same cultural impact.

1543
01:34:44.680 --> 01:34:47.479
Which they tried to do, because they were just like,

1544
01:34:48.119 --> 01:34:50.720
can't it can't be Captain Kirk. Can we at least

1545
01:34:50.720 --> 01:34:53.439
have it with Spock at least that's that means that

1546
01:34:53.479 --> 01:34:59.359
it's not real, to which, to their credit, Fred Freiberger

1547
01:34:59.359 --> 01:35:01.600
and Rotten like, no, it has to be Kirk.

1548
01:35:02.359 --> 01:35:04.520
Actually I do. I have to read something really quickly

1549
01:35:05.640 --> 01:35:11.239
about the kiss, because.

1550
01:35:11.000 --> 01:35:11.800
You were talking about it.

1551
01:35:11.760 --> 01:35:15.000
Also, go ahead, oh, now you're talking about the South.

1552
01:35:15.039 --> 01:35:21.319
I just remembered apparently who said this. They were talking

1553
01:35:21.319 --> 01:35:24.439
about NBC executives were talking about feedback, and they apparently

1554
01:35:24.439 --> 01:35:27.159
got a letter from a white Southerner who wrote, I

1555
01:35:27.159 --> 01:35:31.079
am totally opposed to the mixing of raceist misagenation. However,

1556
01:35:31.279 --> 01:35:35.399
anytime a red blooded American boy like Captain Kirk gets

1557
01:35:35.439 --> 01:35:37.680
a beautiful dame in his arms that looks like Ahura,

1558
01:35:37.880 --> 01:35:42.279
he ain't gonna fight it, which as it's like wild

1559
01:35:42.359 --> 01:35:43.840
kind of thing. But I think it's talking to what

1560
01:35:43.880 --> 01:35:45.520
you were talking about, which is that it's like if

1561
01:35:45.560 --> 01:35:49.000
it were Spock, he's also an other, right, but it's

1562
01:35:49.159 --> 01:35:53.119
white hot American, like all American Captain Kirk, and that

1563
01:35:53.319 --> 01:35:54.920
is a big deal. And so yeah, if it had

1564
01:35:54.960 --> 01:35:57.399
been switched you wouldn't have had the same emotional impact

1565
01:35:57.479 --> 01:36:00.479
because I think the Spock Chapel thing is so intense,

1566
01:36:00.600 --> 01:36:05.439
and then because of what Kirk represents is interesting too.

1567
01:36:06.159 --> 01:36:07.720
Actually, can I change my answer?

1568
01:36:08.520 --> 01:36:08.640
Oh?

1569
01:36:08.720 --> 01:36:09.760
Yes, absolutely?

1570
01:36:09.800 --> 01:36:17.439
Oh yes, favorite ship or in Scotty Wow, which is

1571
01:36:17.479 --> 01:36:22.680
actually canonical. Yeah, you haven't gotten pulling this out of

1572
01:36:22.680 --> 01:36:23.119
my elbow.

1573
01:36:23.159 --> 01:36:24.960
This is Yeah, we haven't gotten around to it yet.

1574
01:36:25.520 --> 01:36:35.159
I didn't know. I like it. Cute, We love Scotty Scott.

1575
01:36:36.640 --> 01:36:39.199
I read Blooded Scott's.

1576
01:36:40.640 --> 01:36:43.600
Also, I would be I gotta, I gotta seam smart here.

1577
01:36:43.640 --> 01:36:47.000
I gotta. I would be remiss to point out that, uh,

1578
01:36:47.399 --> 01:36:51.720
William Shatner that red Blooded American is a Jewish Canadian.

1579
01:36:51.359 --> 01:36:54.159
Jewish Canadian man. Yeah, we love that, love to see it,

1580
01:36:54.680 --> 01:37:00.560
to see it lovely. Okay, my ship is I forgot

1581
01:37:00.600 --> 01:37:03.960
what are their names? The two main Platonians.

1582
01:37:03.520 --> 01:37:07.000
That suck Para and not Parman.

1583
01:37:07.439 --> 01:37:11.880
Yes, partman and not Parman. Here's why, here's why, here's why.

1584
01:37:13.079 --> 01:37:14.800
The way that so you brought it up, the like

1585
01:37:14.880 --> 01:37:18.359
Kurtic looking at her like this, I really love me

1586
01:37:18.760 --> 01:37:22.600
a you know, an enemy still lovers kind of relationship,

1587
01:37:22.960 --> 01:37:25.560
and that seems like it was like a lovers to

1588
01:37:25.720 --> 01:37:28.199
enemies to lovers. We've been alive for a long time

1589
01:37:28.239 --> 01:37:31.159
and now they're and they're just like a apathy stage

1590
01:37:31.880 --> 01:37:35.079
and like they're just waiting for something to get them inspired,

1591
01:37:36.520 --> 01:37:38.640
at which point they will tear each other apart.

1592
01:37:39.880 --> 01:37:42.600
Kind of think that they're twenty three hundred years old.

1593
01:37:43.079 --> 01:37:45.920
How great was it whenever her her name is Falana,

1594
01:37:46.239 --> 01:37:49.199
when was like, go ahead and guess how old I am.

1595
01:37:50.399 --> 01:37:54.000
Oh? I was not there for that, just like spots,

1596
01:37:54.000 --> 01:37:55.479
it's just about to trip.

1597
01:37:56.319 --> 01:37:59.319
It's gonna be that god thirty five.

1598
01:38:03.159 --> 01:38:05.239
By the way, she was doing this like such as

1599
01:38:05.239 --> 01:38:08.319
this like posh British accent man. But yeah, in that

1600
01:38:08.319 --> 01:38:14.119
little moment, her little yes, uh, they were. I mean,

1601
01:38:14.159 --> 01:38:17.600
they were despicable people, but they had that real like

1602
01:38:17.800 --> 01:38:21.479
terrible vampire vibe going on for them because they were

1603
01:38:21.520 --> 01:38:24.479
so old and like they're just like.

1604
01:38:24.600 --> 01:38:28.399
M kind of a Louis kind of situation.

1605
01:38:28.720 --> 01:38:32.359
Yeah, and I'm just like, make me happy. I've lost

1606
01:38:32.399 --> 01:38:36.279
sexual interest in my husband, you know, so I meant

1607
01:38:36.359 --> 01:38:39.079
that's mine. Kenny.

1608
01:38:39.800 --> 01:38:43.319
Y'all are sorry. It is a binary y'all are wrong.

1609
01:38:43.399 --> 01:38:46.119
There's only one answer this week, and the answer is

1610
01:38:46.159 --> 01:38:49.439
general grievous and his medical droid ate for d droid.

1611
01:38:49.800 --> 01:38:54.319
Okay, I sick corrected, and I am proud to be corrected,

1612
01:38:54.680 --> 01:38:55.159
thank you.

1613
01:38:55.840 --> 01:38:56.279
Yeah.

1614
01:38:57.239 --> 01:39:01.800
Yeah, eight four D is there to be like, yes,

1615
01:39:02.520 --> 01:39:05.640
please tell me all the ways that I'm a stupid

1616
01:39:05.680 --> 01:39:06.039
little bit.

1617
01:39:09.600 --> 01:39:12.840
So are you saying that the droid has some kind

1618
01:39:12.840 --> 01:39:14.960
of humiliation king, I think.

1619
01:39:14.800 --> 01:39:20.800
So he's a brady bottom with the humiliation.

1620
01:39:22.039 --> 01:39:25.680
Okay, So now I'm wondering how close he would be

1621
01:39:25.760 --> 01:39:29.199
to somebody like data, as in, are you fully functional?

1622
01:39:31.880 --> 01:39:34.520
I'm sorry, I don't start sexualizing that droid. We're going

1623
01:39:34.600 --> 01:39:36.560
to bring that into Uh.

1624
01:39:36.600 --> 01:39:40.840
He is a medical droid. Therefore, if the medical droid

1625
01:39:41.079 --> 01:39:47.399
has to fulfillate full range of medical behaviors, then I

1626
01:39:47.399 --> 01:39:49.039
think the answer is yes.

1627
01:39:49.199 --> 01:39:52.680
Well what about grievus? Well, and perhaps we should queer

1628
01:39:52.800 --> 01:39:56.840
our understanding of sex here general queer vers.

1629
01:39:57.359 --> 01:39:59.800
I think that that fits in general.

1630
01:40:00.119 --> 01:40:02.560
Yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah, I'm I go with yeah,

1631
01:40:02.960 --> 01:40:04.680
well until his untimely demise.

1632
01:40:05.039 --> 01:40:10.279
Also, I gotta say the actor that plays that Earth's

1633
01:40:11.079 --> 01:40:15.600
isn't it No, it's David Accord, who is basically Matthew

1634
01:40:15.600 --> 01:40:19.640
Wood and David Accord work in the sound department of

1635
01:40:19.720 --> 01:40:24.359
the Clone Wars.

1636
01:40:22.319 --> 01:40:22.800
And.

1637
01:40:25.199 --> 01:40:27.840
Whenever you watch the behind the scenes stuff, it's always

1638
01:40:27.880 --> 01:40:31.680
those two that are talking about like some sound effects

1639
01:40:31.680 --> 01:40:34.239
and development of that. And so they were like, who

1640
01:40:34.279 --> 01:40:37.520
is grievous as number two? Matthew Wood's number two because

1641
01:40:37.520 --> 01:40:41.079
matthew Wood plays General Gravis. Yeah, and then David Accord

1642
01:40:41.159 --> 01:40:46.479
made the extremely smart call patterning a four D after

1643
01:40:47.479 --> 01:40:52.520
nineteen sixties nineteen seventies actor Paul Lynde, famously sener Pollywood

1644
01:40:52.520 --> 01:40:55.800
Squares and also the uncle from The Witch.

1645
01:40:56.119 --> 01:40:58.359
Yeah that makes sense, that makes sense.

1646
01:40:58.399 --> 01:41:00.640
Okay. The reason I was picking up Tom Kenny is

1647
01:41:00.680 --> 01:41:04.319
because he voiced Nadar. Yes, when he wasn't being SpongeBob,

1648
01:41:04.359 --> 01:41:09.279
he was doing this. And then pit Fisto is voiced

1649
01:41:09.279 --> 01:41:14.880
by Phil Lamar, who also voiced you got a hand up.

1650
01:41:14.880 --> 01:41:17.600
I'm gonna respond to hand up? Did you want me

1651
01:41:17.640 --> 01:41:18.159
to finish?

1652
01:41:19.239 --> 01:41:23.760
Uh? Mace Windu from the Star Wars, Colne Wars.

1653
01:41:25.479 --> 01:41:33.800
Uh, try Hermes Conrad from Futurama. Yeah, Stewart from Justice League.

1654
01:41:33.000 --> 01:41:36.159
Yes, we were talking about this too. He also I

1655
01:41:36.239 --> 01:41:39.479
was watching I watched all the Superstore and he just

1656
01:41:39.479 --> 01:41:41.359
shows up in Superstore and I was like, oh, Hi,

1657
01:41:42.039 --> 01:41:46.119
Hi buddy for like a single us MAD.

1658
01:41:46.319 --> 01:41:48.439
I was first familiar with him from Mad TV for

1659
01:41:48.560 --> 01:41:51.920
several seasons where he was a main cast member, and

1660
01:41:52.000 --> 01:41:53.840
so every time I see him pop up on something,

1661
01:41:53.880 --> 01:41:55.960
I was just like, you're a main cast member on

1662
01:41:56.039 --> 01:41:59.119
Mad TV. Let's let you be a movie star.

1663
01:41:59.680 --> 01:42:01.920
Joy a joint.

1664
01:42:02.039 --> 01:42:04.800
If I can just point out one other thing here,

1665
01:42:05.039 --> 01:42:08.079
absolutely you can, please. I would really like to give

1666
01:42:08.520 --> 01:42:11.479
a nod to Kevin Kiner, who was the composer for

1667
01:42:11.520 --> 01:42:17.159
the episode, because at one point he ends up introducing

1668
01:42:18.119 --> 01:42:24.680
a quasi imperial on Almost Mars by host music cue,

1669
01:42:25.119 --> 01:42:28.880
so you can tell what is being implied. But yeah,

1670
01:42:28.920 --> 01:42:31.319
it just made my musician brain very very happy.

1671
01:42:32.119 --> 01:42:35.159
Wait can you expand on that, like the implication versus

1672
01:42:35.159 --> 01:42:36.960
like what like what what I was going for?

1673
01:42:37.479 --> 01:42:41.800
Well, given that, let's say, oh no, I'm so sorry

1674
01:42:41.920 --> 01:42:49.039
that is from the episode of bombad Jedi apologies because

1675
01:42:49.039 --> 01:42:51.439
I've got notes on.

1676
01:42:50.880 --> 01:42:54.119
All three of them. Oh my god. Yeah, but I think.

1677
01:42:54.720 --> 01:42:57.319
But I also actually, as you were saying that, I

1678
01:42:57.319 --> 01:43:00.399
picked up on the same thing. I mean, but also

1679
01:43:00.479 --> 01:43:03.319
just in general amusing and this is pretty extraordinary, especially

1680
01:43:03.439 --> 01:43:07.319
like this whole arc, I felt very thrilling to me.

1681
01:43:08.920 --> 01:43:11.119
So I really have to hand it to the people

1682
01:43:11.119 --> 01:43:15.000
who do the music for the animated series, rebels bad Batch.

1683
01:43:15.720 --> 01:43:21.880
This visions. I mean, really, it's I mean, we.

1684
01:43:22.439 --> 01:43:24.560
Say this all the time, and I'm sure you have

1685
01:43:24.640 --> 01:43:29.640
a similar kind of perspective of we think animation is

1686
01:43:30.439 --> 01:43:32.920
severely underappreciated.

1687
01:43:34.239 --> 01:43:36.600
We're saying it for years, we even up.

1688
01:43:36.479 --> 01:43:38.359
Front, like I feel this way when it comes up

1689
01:43:38.359 --> 01:43:39.920
with a lot of like there are a lot of

1690
01:43:40.039 --> 01:43:42.600
Star Wars shows happening where I'm like, I don't need

1691
01:43:42.640 --> 01:43:46.279
this to be live action because I had a perfect

1692
01:43:46.399 --> 01:43:50.159
thing in my animated shell, and like I like to

1693
01:43:50.239 --> 01:43:53.920
Soka live action. But I also I would have watched

1694
01:43:54.279 --> 01:43:58.760
so many more stories with an Ashley Exstina Soka like forever,

1695
01:43:59.039 --> 01:44:01.000
you know, and I would like to we'll have more

1696
01:44:01.079 --> 01:44:03.960
of that. I just this kind of I don't know,

1697
01:44:04.039 --> 01:44:08.079
it feels frustrating that we would still see animation as

1698
01:44:08.079 --> 01:44:11.760
being solely the realm of for children, or even the

1699
01:44:11.840 --> 01:44:13.960
very fact that something for children would be bad, you know,

1700
01:44:14.479 --> 01:44:16.159
and all so well.

1701
01:44:15.960 --> 01:44:18.439
What you're talking about as a conflict that's been happening

1702
01:44:18.439 --> 01:44:23.279
between the public, animators and studios since the nineteen thirties,

1703
01:44:24.039 --> 01:44:27.239
Oh my gosh. And fact, in nineteen thirty eight, the

1704
01:44:27.359 --> 01:44:31.600
producer of Warner Brothers cartoons, Leon Slessinger, was quoted in

1705
01:44:31.640 --> 01:44:35.520
an article saying, oh, yeah, we totally know that animation

1706
01:44:35.680 --> 01:44:40.159
is primarily for children. News flash, honey, it was actually

1707
01:44:40.199 --> 01:44:43.399
meant for general audiences, which is why so much of

1708
01:44:43.479 --> 01:44:47.560
animation from that era, and at least until we hit television,

1709
01:44:48.760 --> 01:44:53.560
was really meant to appeal to not just littles, but

1710
01:44:53.680 --> 01:44:57.479
everybody who was there. Once we got more of a

1711
01:44:57.560 --> 01:45:02.279
diversification as far as the development of television, then we

1712
01:45:02.359 --> 01:45:08.199
start seeing things that are produced specifically for children, starting

1713
01:45:08.399 --> 01:45:12.239
with the cartoon Crusader Rabbit, which was on the Dumont Network.

1714
01:45:13.399 --> 01:45:16.680
Wow, I've never even heard of this.

1715
01:45:18.000 --> 01:45:19.359
We can talk at length, I'm.

1716
01:45:19.199 --> 01:45:22.880
Sure, doctor knowl We have got to bring you back

1717
01:45:22.920 --> 01:45:25.479
when we get to Star Trek, the animated series, and.

1718
01:45:25.600 --> 01:45:28.800
Oh please do I would love to. Oh my gosh,

1719
01:45:28.840 --> 01:45:29.640
I'm here for it.

1720
01:45:30.600 --> 01:45:32.000
Yeah.

1721
01:45:32.079 --> 01:45:38.880
How interesting. Gosh. Well, this is Clonor's extraordinary, extraordinary stuff,

1722
01:45:38.960 --> 01:45:39.960
and that's very interesting.

1723
01:45:41.119 --> 01:45:44.800
As fascinating as this discussion is, I'm sorry, I've got

1724
01:45:44.840 --> 01:45:48.279
to bring down the hammer. Yeah he does, because we've

1725
01:45:48.279 --> 01:45:55.199
been having a lovely, amicable, nuanced discussion about how uh,

1726
01:45:55.399 --> 01:45:58.239
all of these things are so complicated and even this

1727
01:45:58.399 --> 01:46:02.319
beautiful the U with him Plato's step Children is so complicated,

1728
01:46:02.359 --> 01:46:05.359
and the ethics within Layer of Grievous can also be

1729
01:46:05.399 --> 01:46:09.720
complicated about how we combat fascism. But at the end

1730
01:46:09.760 --> 01:46:11.680
of the day, art's either good or bad.

1731
01:46:13.319 --> 01:46:14.720
It's a binary.

1732
01:46:14.760 --> 01:46:19.079
It's a binary everything. There is no spectrum, only binary

1733
01:46:19.199 --> 01:46:21.920
good bad. And that's why it's time for us to

1734
01:46:21.960 --> 01:46:24.439
answer the question which is better Star Trek or Star

1735
01:46:24.479 --> 01:46:28.000
Wars by ranking both Star Trek the original series Plato's

1736
01:46:27.960 --> 01:46:32.520
step Children versus the Layer of Grievous from a zero

1737
01:46:32.680 --> 01:46:36.159
to ten scale. Right, Sorry, I don't make the rules.

1738
01:46:37.279 --> 01:46:38.720
Actually you do make the rules.

1739
01:46:38.960 --> 01:46:40.840
I don't make the rules. I'm an ally and I

1740
01:46:40.880 --> 01:46:41.880
don't make the rules.

1741
01:46:44.960 --> 01:46:54.880
Comes down from above. Someone decided, yeah, yes I will.

1742
01:46:55.039 --> 01:46:56.079
I will kick things off.

1743
01:46:56.119 --> 01:46:56.960
You're going to go first.

1744
01:46:57.399 --> 01:47:02.600
It's okay, yeah, shape a show, shape a show, show show.

1745
01:47:03.560 --> 01:47:10.039
I'm going to give Layer of Grievous a six. Okay,

1746
01:47:10.439 --> 01:47:11.960
So it was pretty good.

1747
01:47:12.560 --> 01:47:16.239
Pretty good for a reference. We can get as granular

1748
01:47:16.359 --> 01:47:19.720
as we want journal so we've got some that are

1749
01:47:19.760 --> 01:47:22.479
like six point three five.

1750
01:47:25.600 --> 01:47:29.279
Craves is pretty good. It's pretty fun. Uh. There were

1751
01:47:29.399 --> 01:47:33.680
flashes of greatness, but ultimately finding it difficult to remember

1752
01:47:33.920 --> 01:47:36.199
a lot of things from this episode outside of the

1753
01:47:36.199 --> 01:47:39.119
broad strokes fascinating.

1754
01:47:40.720 --> 01:47:41.720
Do you want me to go? Do you want to

1755
01:47:41.760 --> 01:47:42.279
go last?

1756
01:47:42.520 --> 01:47:42.800
Gum?

1757
01:47:43.359 --> 01:47:47.119
Yes, yeah, it's I find that it's helpful to go

1758
01:47:47.239 --> 01:47:50.920
first for the starship it and lasts for this. So

1759
01:47:52.760 --> 01:47:54.760
I'm going to give it higher than that for certain

1760
01:47:54.840 --> 01:47:56.399
and I'll mena tell you, I'm going to talk myself

1761
01:47:56.399 --> 01:48:00.680
into it because this episode has what I find to

1762
01:48:00.720 --> 01:48:04.680
be very exciting, which is spookiness. I found it to

1763
01:48:04.680 --> 01:48:09.279
be a true thriller. I like creep creepy Crowley spider walking,

1764
01:48:12.079 --> 01:48:16.760
creep of Crowley spider walking. I genuinely these are things

1765
01:48:16.800 --> 01:48:19.840
I enjoy. I also enjoy the interesting complexity of the

1766
01:48:19.880 --> 01:48:22.840
conversations around power and agency. So I'm going to give

1767
01:48:22.840 --> 01:48:24.920
it a sup of wain three wah.

1768
01:48:27.680 --> 01:48:31.720
You know you bring up the spooky And I don't

1769
01:48:31.720 --> 01:48:33.840
know if you're aware of this, but there was a

1770
01:48:33.880 --> 01:48:41.800
Halloween album released that is General Grivos talking to trigger treaders.

1771
01:48:43.800 --> 01:48:44.640
It's amazing.

1772
01:48:45.439 --> 01:48:46.399
I love it.

1773
01:48:47.279 --> 01:48:51.239
I picked it up. God knows where god knows how

1774
01:48:51.279 --> 01:48:55.319
long ago. But I have this MP three and it

1775
01:48:55.399 --> 01:49:00.720
is literally called Star Wars Halloween. So if y'all are interested,

1776
01:49:00.920 --> 01:49:02.680
I would be more than happy to share.

1777
01:49:03.000 --> 01:49:05.800
Yes, please, oh my gosh, yes, please, yes, please, oh

1778
01:49:05.840 --> 01:49:09.039
my gosh, yes, oh my god, thank you. You're welcome.

1779
01:49:09.800 --> 01:49:11.720
See this is what you get for getting a died

1780
01:49:11.760 --> 01:49:13.960
in the Wold professional nerd on your show.

1781
01:49:14.319 --> 01:49:15.840
Incredible. This is the best.

1782
01:49:16.920 --> 01:49:19.520
The rest of our friends that come on podcast, yeah,

1783
01:49:19.960 --> 01:49:23.199
not as good. They really phone it in.

1784
01:49:24.319 --> 01:49:29.000
They don't listen to our past episode even.

1785
01:49:28.439 --> 01:49:31.439
Whenever they do, and they're just like nice and smart.

1786
01:49:31.800 --> 01:49:33.920
I'm like, no, sorry, you're dumb.

1787
01:49:34.239 --> 01:49:38.039
You don't give me general grievous Halloween episode songs?

1788
01:49:39.960 --> 01:49:43.359
What would you sound effects? But oh I love that,

1789
01:49:43.880 --> 01:49:47.399
I would say for layer of grievous, and I'm trying

1790
01:49:47.439 --> 01:49:49.680
to consider it on its own merits and not as

1791
01:49:49.720 --> 01:49:53.000
the conclusion of a three episode art right, all right,

1792
01:49:54.119 --> 01:49:57.600
I would say as a standalone episode, it's probably about

1793
01:49:57.640 --> 01:49:58.920
a six or seven.

1794
01:50:00.920 --> 01:50:05.880
Just say it, six point five, just going just going

1795
01:50:05.960 --> 01:50:09.000
right down the middle, six point eight.

1796
01:50:09.439 --> 01:50:11.399
You do you truly do love to see it.

1797
01:50:11.560 --> 01:50:12.880
You can feel it in your heart, you know.

1798
01:50:13.119 --> 01:50:15.800
Well, the one thing that really disappointed me is that

1799
01:50:15.840 --> 01:50:20.159
we didn't get to see Fisto smile. I don't know

1800
01:50:20.199 --> 01:50:22.640
if it's because the Jedi dental plan has fallen off

1801
01:50:22.680 --> 01:50:25.479
somewhere or just what's going on, but I miss that

1802
01:50:25.560 --> 01:50:27.199
smile that we got in Tartakovski.

1803
01:50:27.760 --> 01:50:31.560
Oh yeah, oh yeah, cut down on that dental plan

1804
01:50:31.720 --> 01:50:33.439
that Palpatine.

1805
01:50:33.039 --> 01:50:36.199
Yeah, of course, yeah. I do wonder. I do wonder,

1806
01:50:36.359 --> 01:50:40.319
like what's happening to all the dentists as they're out.

1807
01:50:40.079 --> 01:50:44.840
Well, because mouth bones are no longer considered necessary. They

1808
01:50:44.880 --> 01:50:49.439
are a luxury luxury bone, a luxury bone, luxury mouthbones.

1809
01:50:49.720 --> 01:50:53.439
Speaking of luxury bones, Plano step Children.

1810
01:50:55.279 --> 01:50:59.399
Oh boy, I.

1811
01:50:58.840 --> 01:51:02.119
Think I'm going to think this a five point eight

1812
01:51:02.920 --> 01:51:09.439
Oh my gosh, m As, these are the voyages. I

1813
01:51:09.479 --> 01:51:10.920
don't know if you know this, but I keep going

1814
01:51:10.960 --> 01:51:20.680
back to that wonderfully wonderfully establishes I'm gonna cut this out.

1815
01:51:20.760 --> 01:51:25.920
That's gonna be I'm gonna look so smart, so smart.

1816
01:51:28.039 --> 01:51:29.359
It looks so smart.

1817
01:51:29.520 --> 01:51:33.199
Yep, yeah, Kenny so smart. He just like brought this

1818
01:51:33.359 --> 01:51:33.960
up immediately.

1819
01:51:35.640 --> 01:51:38.720
As these of the voyage of season three has brought up.

1820
01:51:39.680 --> 01:51:42.960
In regards to Plato step Children, there are a fair

1821
01:51:43.000 --> 01:51:46.840
amount of tropes at play Landing Party separated from ship

1822
01:51:46.880 --> 01:51:49.239
ship in trouble, Landing Party must save themselves and at

1823
01:51:49.239 --> 01:51:53.640
the same time save the Enterprise. Other episodes that have

1824
01:51:53.720 --> 01:51:58.119
covered very similar telecon control issues include where No Man

1825
01:51:58.159 --> 01:52:01.600
has gone before, the second Pilot who mourns for Adonais

1826
01:52:01.680 --> 01:52:05.439
and Return to Tomorrow also remove godlike and worship, and

1827
01:52:05.479 --> 01:52:07.199
we also saw the story device in the Square of

1828
01:52:07.199 --> 01:52:10.720
Got This cat Spot and Gamesters of Triscut. It's not

1829
01:52:11.039 --> 01:52:15.079
an original episode. What they're bringing to it is pretty

1830
01:52:15.159 --> 01:52:20.279
much just isn't this like really bad? And whenever it

1831
01:52:20.319 --> 01:52:23.119
gets into those isn't that really bad stuff, it just

1832
01:52:23.319 --> 01:52:28.039
feels tired and repetitive. Alexander is the shining example, and

1833
01:52:28.119 --> 01:52:30.239
I wish that he was on a different episode that

1834
01:52:30.399 --> 01:52:35.359
was allowed to have a more complex character that was

1835
01:52:35.399 --> 01:52:39.920
not beholden to being controlled and just was able to

1836
01:52:40.039 --> 01:52:46.239
let his acting muscles sing because he was an incredible character.

1837
01:52:46.680 --> 01:52:49.880
But other than that's a pretty sleepy episode.

1838
01:52:50.159 --> 01:52:57.800
Wow ah Okay. Sometimes sometimes sometimes we do what do

1839
01:52:57.840 --> 01:53:05.039
we call it speedy spy ringkings, And sometimes I can

1840
01:53:05.079 --> 01:53:07.479
be like I can understand, I can like recognize certain

1841
01:53:07.520 --> 01:53:09.479
elements and stuff and I can be like, I know

1842
01:53:09.560 --> 01:53:11.640
that this deserved not in this case, a seven, but

1843
01:53:11.640 --> 01:53:13.800
I'm still gonna give it it too because of like

1844
01:53:14.039 --> 01:53:15.800
overt racism that wasn't good at verth you know what

1845
01:53:15.880 --> 01:53:18.840
I mean. Like, but I think I'm just going to

1846
01:53:18.880 --> 01:53:20.920
spite rank this one just because I just truly felt

1847
01:53:21.000 --> 01:53:24.800
deeply uncomfortable and it didn't feel orf it. So I'm

1848
01:53:24.800 --> 01:53:26.800
going to give it like a three point six.

1849
01:53:27.319 --> 01:53:29.920
Asthma, your spite ranking is still so high, and I.

1850
01:53:31.520 --> 01:53:32.520
It's for Alexander.

1851
01:53:33.199 --> 01:53:34.720
Alexander great character.

1852
01:53:36.039 --> 01:53:39.079
Yeah, I just I just I yeah, it's tired in

1853
01:53:39.119 --> 01:53:40.520
a way that actually felt.

1854
01:53:42.199 --> 01:53:42.680
Cruel.

1855
01:53:45.039 --> 01:53:46.960
I don't know. Did you know the BBC wouldn't even

1856
01:53:47.479 --> 01:53:50.840
air this one because they were like, it's extended torture

1857
01:53:50.960 --> 01:53:53.239
and sadism. It just felt a certain point like I

1858
01:53:53.319 --> 01:53:55.119
was like, you can you can do this without a

1859
01:53:55.119 --> 01:53:59.880
feeling without it dragging out for so long even though

1860
01:53:59.880 --> 01:54:02.319
it has real moments. I think that could be that

1861
01:54:02.359 --> 01:54:05.840
are interesting. IM spite ranking it good?

1862
01:54:07.439 --> 01:54:11.000
You love to see it, doctor All.

1863
01:54:12.640 --> 01:54:15.720
One episode that was missed in your list is Charlie X.

1864
01:54:16.359 --> 01:54:22.399
Yeah, Charlie X a great I'm gonna give this an

1865
01:54:22.399 --> 01:54:28.119
eight simply on the basis of Michael Dunn's performance, because

1866
01:54:28.279 --> 01:54:32.960
although Alexander was certainly being controlled as a puppet, he

1867
01:54:33.119 --> 01:54:40.279
never lost sense of self mm hmm, not once beautiful.

1868
01:54:39.840 --> 01:54:43.319
And while yes Harman and not Parman I'm sorry, what

1869
01:54:43.399 --> 01:54:43.760
was her name?

1870
01:54:44.399 --> 01:54:47.119
Felonia, Celia, Lana.

1871
01:54:48.439 --> 01:54:56.560
Okay. Although they were presented as main characters, it wasn't

1872
01:54:56.600 --> 01:54:59.920
about them. Ultimately, it was about the survival of this

1873
01:55:00.039 --> 01:55:05.359
yes character in a society that did not value him

1874
01:55:05.520 --> 01:55:11.199
except as well a stepping stool mm hmmm, sometimes quite literally.

1875
01:55:12.079 --> 01:55:17.399
So for me, on the strength of that, I'm going

1876
01:55:17.439 --> 01:55:19.680
to give it a night cool.

1877
01:55:20.119 --> 01:55:20.960
I'd love to see it.

1878
01:55:21.279 --> 01:55:25.800
You do, you do love to see it, which means

1879
01:55:25.840 --> 01:55:30.319
if my math is correct, because the math mathing, the

1880
01:55:30.399 --> 01:55:34.960
math let me input this this.

1881
01:55:37.199 --> 01:55:38.880
I was gonna say, do you have an advocus you're

1882
01:55:38.920 --> 01:55:40.960
working here or what are we dealing?

1883
01:55:42.720 --> 01:55:49.279
Uh? If this is to be believed, oh my god, Well,

1884
01:55:49.319 --> 01:55:51.920
because it looks like the spreadsheet malfunctioned at some point,

1885
01:55:52.199 --> 01:55:55.239
and so I happened to add justice formulas here. But

1886
01:55:55.279 --> 01:55:57.960
I'm thinking that we're I'm thinking that we're back on track.

1887
01:55:58.960 --> 01:56:01.479
It's just if it if it's to be believed, it's

1888
01:56:01.520 --> 01:56:04.520
just so clean, because my ranking of Plato step children

1889
01:56:04.600 --> 01:56:08.279
was a five point eight and average together Plato step

1890
01:56:08.359 --> 01:56:13.000
children with doctor Knowles eight aspens three point six, and

1891
01:56:13.079 --> 01:56:15.520
my five point eight brings the ranking two five point

1892
01:56:15.520 --> 01:56:19.239
eight versus layer of grievous is six point seven, which

1893
01:56:19.359 --> 01:56:24.560
means aspen Star Wars, when's the week?

1894
01:56:25.520 --> 01:56:25.760
Yes?

1895
01:56:29.680 --> 01:56:32.800
Yeah, right, because art is binary, and clearly Star Wars

1896
01:56:32.880 --> 01:56:34.079
is better than Star Trek a.

1897
01:56:34.079 --> 01:56:36.079
Guess like poetry, So if they rhyd.

1898
01:56:36.239 --> 01:56:38.760
It's so silly. We obviously both love both.

1899
01:56:39.520 --> 01:56:41.359
I was gonna say, every time you say art is

1900
01:56:41.359 --> 01:56:44.039
a binary, I die a little inside. But I also

1901
01:56:44.119 --> 01:56:47.279
understand that that's the central premise of this podcast.

1902
01:56:47.920 --> 01:56:49.239
We have who am I to question?

1903
01:56:49.800 --> 01:56:52.880
Listen, we have to stand behind something, Yeah, I.

1904
01:56:52.920 --> 01:56:55.520
Usually stand in front of things that that works better

1905
01:56:55.560 --> 01:56:56.319
I can see better.

1906
01:56:56.720 --> 01:56:58.560
Yeah, well, we we're just bad.

1907
01:56:58.359 --> 01:57:01.239
People, not a bit of it.

1908
01:57:01.680 --> 01:57:04.399
But speaking of bad people being on the front lines.

1909
01:57:05.119 --> 01:57:07.399
People that want to get early and extended episodes of

1910
01:57:07.520 --> 01:57:10.079
this podcast can go right over to patreon dot com

1911
01:57:10.119 --> 01:57:14.960
slash Trek Wars pod you for five dollars a month.

1912
01:57:15.079 --> 01:57:17.079
Like I said, you can get early versions of these

1913
01:57:17.119 --> 01:57:21.119
episodes and extended versions of these episodes. I'll be cutting

1914
01:57:21.159 --> 01:57:23.720
this together and dropping us on the Patreon bat pretty

1915
01:57:23.800 --> 01:57:26.279
darn soon. I'm pretty pleased with that, and you two

1916
01:57:26.319 --> 01:57:29.279
could join the fine offices of fine folks such as Timbochslsa,

1917
01:57:29.560 --> 01:57:36.079
Emily Brice Love, Heidi Rogers, Kevin Miller, Yes, Austin, Aaron Signs,

1918
01:57:36.800 --> 01:57:41.039
Arizona Mark and lastly, but certainly not leastly, Jolty Partner,

1919
01:57:41.319 --> 01:57:45.159
who composed our wonderful I starship at theme song. Our

1920
01:57:45.399 --> 01:57:48.479
main and ending theme was composed by mister toustin Elfesso,

1921
01:57:48.560 --> 01:57:50.720
where if you would like to get more of his music,

1922
01:57:50.800 --> 01:57:52.760
you can go to these show notes and click on

1923
01:57:52.840 --> 01:57:55.600
the link below. Additionally, if you don't want to participate

1924
01:57:55.680 --> 01:57:57.560
in any form of social media at all, why not

1925
01:57:57.680 --> 01:58:01.000
shoot us any email track wars pod at email dot com,

1926
01:58:01.000 --> 01:58:04.000
which I believe doctor nol Uh you shot us an

1927
01:58:04.039 --> 01:58:06.800
email or we shot you an email. We connected quite

1928
01:58:06.880 --> 01:58:11.760
quickly and Arnett was this was a dare I say it?

1929
01:58:12.239 --> 01:58:14.680
I'm gonna dare pretty darn.

1930
01:58:14.560 --> 01:58:20.800
Good up fire fire, fun fire. Yes, what is? We

1931
01:58:20.800 --> 01:58:24.079
would love for you to plug everything anything that you

1932
01:58:24.119 --> 01:58:26.359
are doing, all of it, your books, your.

1933
01:58:26.199 --> 01:58:29.399
Stuff, your streams, your kids.

1934
01:58:29.760 --> 01:58:31.520
Yeah, your kids, your children.

1935
01:58:31.279 --> 01:58:33.439
Your address, your social security.

1936
01:58:34.880 --> 01:58:37.640
While I appreciate the requests for all of that information,

1937
01:58:37.760 --> 01:58:39.399
I will say that you can find me over on

1938
01:58:39.439 --> 01:58:44.199
blue Sky at t l nole. That's t l k

1939
01:58:44.560 --> 01:58:48.640
n o e l l dot b sky dot social

1940
01:58:50.399 --> 01:58:55.000
And as they were alluding to, I am one half

1941
01:58:55.079 --> 01:59:00.279
of Silent Film Fridays, which airs on Twitch at seven

1942
01:59:00.319 --> 01:59:03.319
pm Eastern on Friday evenings and then is available on

1943
01:59:03.439 --> 01:59:07.199
video on demand not only for free on Patreon, but

1944
01:59:07.279 --> 01:59:11.479
also on Twitch for the following seven days. As far

1945
01:59:11.520 --> 01:59:15.720
as Silent Film Friday goes, Silent Film Friday is where

1946
01:59:15.760 --> 01:59:19.399
the films are silent and the hosts are not. Each

1947
01:59:19.439 --> 01:59:23.720
week we take on a different silent film and we

1948
01:59:24.279 --> 01:59:30.760
go everywhere. From a lot of European cinema, We've got

1949
01:59:30.760 --> 01:59:34.720
a lot of American cinema, of course, And the fact

1950
01:59:34.800 --> 01:59:39.560
of the matter is silent film is usually considered boring.

1951
01:59:40.880 --> 01:59:45.399
But may I just tell you my Oh, okay, you

1952
01:59:45.439 --> 01:59:46.880
know are going to have to have a chat.

1953
01:59:49.159 --> 01:59:53.560
Because I was thinking about because some of those movies

1954
01:59:53.600 --> 01:59:58.840
do feel like whenever I am like, uh, I gotta

1955
01:59:58.840 --> 02:00:01.479
watch Castle Blanca because I'm a completist. And then I

1956
02:00:01.479 --> 02:00:03.000
watched Cosa Blanca and I'm like, this.

1957
02:00:02.960 --> 02:00:05.119
Movie's incredible, extraordinary, right, but.

1958
02:00:05.199 --> 02:00:09.920
It has the aesthetic value of looking like homework because

1959
02:00:09.920 --> 02:00:11.840
it's black and white. Similarly, I was thinking about you

1960
02:00:11.880 --> 02:00:15.119
talking about Metropolism, where I watched that film within the

1961
02:00:15.199 --> 02:00:18.279
last five years for the very first time, and I

1962
02:00:18.359 --> 02:00:21.279
do find silent film a very hard thing to get into.

1963
02:00:21.560 --> 02:00:27.039
And I was just like Metropolis is. I was amazed,

1964
02:00:27.119 --> 02:00:32.399
I was floored. It was an extraordinary watch that plays

1965
02:00:32.840 --> 02:00:37.439
just as well now than it did back then. It's extraordinary.

1966
02:00:38.560 --> 02:00:41.319
Well, what we do with silent film is first off,

1967
02:00:41.680 --> 02:00:45.079
because a lot of silent film was packaged for contemporary

1968
02:00:45.119 --> 02:00:47.760
audiences with some kind of a soundtrack for home video.

1969
02:00:48.720 --> 02:00:52.600
That means that soundtrack is usually not in the public domain.

1970
02:00:52.960 --> 02:00:57.279
But all silent film produced before nineteen twenty eight, excuse me,

1971
02:00:57.319 --> 02:01:01.520
before nineteen twenty nine, it's all in the public And

1972
02:01:02.119 --> 02:01:06.880
weekly my daughter and I get together, we stream a

1973
02:01:06.960 --> 02:01:11.479
film and those who tune in not only have an

1974
02:01:11.479 --> 02:01:14.439
opportunity to comment on the film while we are watching

1975
02:01:14.479 --> 02:01:18.880
it together, but they also get a little entertainment, a

1976
02:01:18.880 --> 02:01:24.279
little commentary, and a fair amount of education. I mean

1977
02:01:24.279 --> 02:01:28.279
I am a film scholar. Yeah, among all things. So yeah,

1978
02:01:29.079 --> 02:01:32.720
we can be seen, like I said, Friday nights, seven

1979
02:01:32.760 --> 02:01:39.840
pm Eastern at Twitch dot tv Forward Slash a t

1980
02:01:40.600 --> 02:01:45.239
K forty two games. And I also do put up

1981
02:01:45.239 --> 02:01:49.760
advertisements for our silent film Friday viewings over on Blue Sky.

1982
02:01:50.319 --> 02:01:53.079
So join us, won't you.

1983
02:01:53.800 --> 02:01:57.439
Ah, that's so exciting. I also have a friend who's

1984
02:01:57.840 --> 02:01:59.279
definitely in a sil of films, and I'm going to

1985
02:01:59.319 --> 02:01:59.960
tell her all about that.

1986
02:02:00.399 --> 02:02:02.439
Oh you really should. The one that we watched last

1987
02:02:02.439 --> 02:02:07.720
week was called The Patsy and it was an hour

1988
02:02:07.840 --> 02:02:11.520
and fifteen minutes of I'm really not the favorite child

1989
02:02:11.920 --> 02:02:14.680
the movie, and it was a comedy.

1990
02:02:16.239 --> 02:02:17.079
I love it.

1991
02:02:17.560 --> 02:02:20.479
No, don't get don't don't, don't get too fussed about it.

1992
02:02:20.760 --> 02:02:23.560
This next week we are going to be watching another

1993
02:02:23.640 --> 02:02:28.119
comedy from nineteen fourteen, this time called Tilly's Punctured Romance,

1994
02:02:28.720 --> 02:02:33.800
which stars Marie Dressler, Charlie Chaplin and maybe Norman.

1995
02:02:35.520 --> 02:02:36.159
Incredible.

1996
02:02:36.840 --> 02:02:39.920
That's so exciting. I love what we get to do.

1997
02:02:40.359 --> 02:02:42.840
And given that I'm on sabbatical this year so I

1998
02:02:42.840 --> 02:02:46.399
can write my book, rather so I can finish my book,

1999
02:02:46.640 --> 02:02:50.680
I've already got about three quarters of it in the bag. Yeah,

2000
02:02:50.720 --> 02:02:52.680
this is what I am doing in lieu of being

2001
02:02:52.720 --> 02:02:54.359
in a classroom for the next Academy.

2002
02:02:55.039 --> 02:02:59.600
Beautiful doctor Nol, thank you so much for coming on

2003
02:02:59.600 --> 02:03:02.279
our little podcast. It has been an absolute pleasure.

2004
02:03:02.760 --> 02:03:05.079
Thanks for having me. I can hardly wait for the

2005
02:03:05.119 --> 02:03:05.560
next time.

2006
02:03:06.079 --> 02:03:08.279
Yeah. Yes, oh my god, Yeah, we're gonna We're gonna

2007
02:03:08.319 --> 02:03:10.600
be like please please come back and bring all your

2008
02:03:10.640 --> 02:03:13.560
knowledge Aspen.

2009
02:03:13.880 --> 02:03:15.000
Yes, I love you.

2010
02:03:15.279 --> 02:03:16.000
Oh, I love you.

2011
02:03:16.079 --> 02:03:21.000
Kenny and listeners, we love you or you thank you

2012
02:03:21.039 --> 02:03:25.199
so much for listening. Live long and prosper and may

2013
02:03:25.239 --> 02:03:26.199
the Force be with you.