Shame & Plot Motivation

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Welcome to the Track Wars podcast,
the one podcast that dares to ask the

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question which is better Star Trek or
Star Wars by going through both of them

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in chronological release order. The Internet's
favorite podcast. I'm the Internet's favorite Trek

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Wars co host. That is me
Kenny Madison, and with me is the

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other Internet's favorite co host of Trek
Wars, Oi Spearwhebster. I told you,

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I told you I'd keep this character
always to me forever. Govnor the

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rhine and spine holds my name on
the plane and the best rhine is for

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Star Wars Aspen. I feel like
you are obsessed when trying to do this

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character since you've seen the My Fair
Ladies stage musical. This sees me Eliza

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do little. I don't like this. We are talking obsession from Star Trek

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the original series versus prow Beaten and
Boga's rival from Star Wars. He walks

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Aspen. How do you feel about
that? Prow Beating is such a good

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name for an episode, and I
didn't think about it until you literally said

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it out loud. I was just
like Rile Beaten. I was mostly upset

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about Boga's rival, so for a
lot of reasons. I just feel really

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upset about animals and children being left
behind. So I feel fine, I

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feel more. I feel fine.
How are you? Oh? Sorry,

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everything's good down here? How are
you? How are you? You didn't

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like to like the cars? Yeah? For they were. Let's say it's

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funny when we get into these three
episode ones, because I was thinking the

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Star Trek episode good, Proudlyn,
good bag his rival fine, which is

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a lot to keep track of.
I will say interesting, Yeah, our

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opinions might not necessarily agree on this
episode. Oh fabulous, fabulous, I

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love that. Are we gonna argue? No, No, I mean yes,

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I mean no, we won't.
We're gonna angrily not argue. Yeah.

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Speaking of angrily not arguing something that
critics like to do. It published

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their reviews. This is just a
clocky seguay, but I don't really care

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going into the premisey for these episodes
for people that are playing the Trek Wars

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Home game. Here is Judy Crosby
for her syndicated column TV Scout Publishing for

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her review of Obsession, aired December
fifteenth, nineteen sixty seven. Of Course,

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directed by Ralph Sanetski and writer Arn't
Wallace, Judy Crosby writes obsession.

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This episode is one of the highlights
on television Tonight. Stephen Brooks stars in

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his first TV roles since leaving his
regular role on the FBI series, playing

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the son of Captain Kirk's first captain. His father was killed by a strange

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cloudlike creature, which also killed the
entire crew that Captain Starship except for Kirk.

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When the cloud creature shows itself again
eighteen years later, Kirk becomes obsessed

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with the killer creature, which lives
on red corpuscles and now threatens all the

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lives support the enterprise except for mister
Spokhu's blood is green. Oh yeah,

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boy, and no reason why?
Well yeah, his blood cos just so

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everybody knows our blood is our blood
is iron iron based? Is that a

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copper based? Interesting? Uh?
I love that you're finding this. I'll

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do the Ewoks the two here?
Uh so specifically the both were directed by

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Dale Shott, and then Bob Corow
wrote to the prow Beaten segment and Linda

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Wolverton wrote Baga's rival. Uh So
I had found this. The description on

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the description on IMDb only gives one
so I'll just read that out and then

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I'll just do a great shot job
of describing the other one. So wicked

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tea boat, Nissa and Latara go
for a canoe trip which ends in a

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crash, the prow carving goes missing, and the searching ewoks land and the

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hands of the do locks and ah, and then in Baga's rival in this

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one, the Baga, who's their
lovely little horse type friendo is supplanted in

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love and affection by this new fancy
looking horse creature which is the name Silky,

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and poor Boga just can't seem to
match up to him. But it

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turns out Silky is this side to
evil sidekick of j Druthy Enchantress, and

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she, like most people, is
also trying to get the sun Star,

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so she, just like another witch
bitch, abducts Nissa and then tries to

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get the sun Star back from Chief
Chirp. But and then still the kids

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saved the day, while a Chief
Chirpa and the folks come in like,

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oh, we're just a little too
late. You already saved her anyway,

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And and Baga he's the hero because
he's always the hero, and feel deeply

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upset when sweet sweet baby animals and
sweet baby children and also adults are treated

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poorly and feel left out and said, oh god, it's just like hurts

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really bad. Anyway, thank you. It's no surprise that Linda Wolverton,

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along with expanding on asthma's previous research, were gone with the Mimps, which

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is Linda Wolverton's other e wox episode, then went on to write the extremely

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devastating Homeward Bound the Incredible Journey,
which we have talked about. That the

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fact that she did that and it
is now making sense to me. The

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idea of watching animals emotionally suffer is
so hard for me. Yes, I

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cannot manage it, very weird as
an adult man that washed Homeward Bound The

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Incredible Journey for the first time in
September, the first time as an adult

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in September, and openly wept five
times. I agree with you, it's

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too much, but like the absolute
fear, like I yeah, And I

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think I mentioned this story when I
watched it when I was a young child.

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I had just gotten a kitten and
I was inconsolable. I couldnot describe

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what was going on for me because
I like couldn't even put into words.

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I couldn't stop crying, and every
like teacher in the after school program was

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just like, what the fuck is
wrong with this kid? And I was

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I was like having a meltdown because
I was terrified my kitten was going to

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get lost and I just couldn't even
bear bear it. Oh So anyway,

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thanks Linda for making me feel this
way about Baga. It's a pretty good

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episode. I just I think I
was like, oh, can we do

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some quality control and like not repeating
the exact same storyline as the last one.

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That's all that got me on it. So it's not the exact thing,

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it's just a very it's the it's
just a very similar concept of this

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this battie, this bad witch is
trying to get the sun Star. Let's

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abduct a Nissa. It's like almost
exact and I mean motives of some wicked

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villain attempting to steal the SunStar.
It's definitely a repeating motif in the Eoks

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TV series. However, I think
you're right. I it literally in the

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last episode. That's I think what
got me about it is I was like,

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put it at least like a couple
of episodes away, so I'm like,

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not immediately thinking about and maybe that's
being too tough on it, because

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like, once again we had a
sweet ass Jay Drew thean Chancerosus loved her.

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She was a cat, which rocked
loved it. I love a I

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love a cat, and I love
a witch bitch. I've made this very

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clear. So to combine the two
incredible. This is my dream. This

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is going to be the first eleven
ranked episode. Except I don't like it

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repeating storyline. I don't like Nissa
being abducted. I fucking again, she's

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too capable and it's annoying the shit
out of me, and she just feels

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very lazy, abject flatara, object
tibo, object wicket. He doesn't have

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to be a little hero. He's
fucking fine. He's whatever. Anyway.

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Also, I liked the Star Trek
episode. I didn't. There's that pods

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that I did not like. There's
parts of it I did like. No,

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I did like it. Did you
not like it? Did you like

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it? Is this what we're disagreeing? Yeah? Well, Also we haven't

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even talked about prowb Beaten that much. Oh sorry, I like as well.

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I liked probably in a lot.
Yeah, I like Prowbeaten as well

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good apps. I think the Elocks
episodes were quite strong this week. I

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don't know what it was. I
was just very much biting with these and

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I feel like our episode of Star
Trek this week for me is the most

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forgettable episode of Star Trek because I
consistently forget that it exists. That's funny,

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I guess my Yeah. I as
I was watching, I was like,

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this is a real like mid level
episode. I think what I was,

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I think I am interested, you
know, you know what it is.

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There's a difference between is this a
good episode of bad episode or is

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this an interesting round interesting episode and
is this the kind of episode where I

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found a lot of interesting themes that
I want to talk about on our podcast.

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And it was one that, unlike
some I felt like it was very

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like theme inspired. There's a lot
that I wanted to I want to talk

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about, And so maybe that's what
I mean is I'm like, ah,

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because it may be annoyed in a
lot of different ways, and sometimes that's

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very inspired. I think my consternation
for this episode because you are correct,

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it is a very mid episode.
All of the things in this episode have

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been done elsewhere on Star Trek.
Better like what name them? Name them?

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This is clearly a Captain Ahab story
because they already had their perfect Captain

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Ahb story with a doomsday machine.
Hmm h Yeah. And also yeah,

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behind the scenes, as we talked
about in our Doomsday Machine episodes, they

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very much viewed that episode more as
a this is a metaphor for nuclear armament

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as opposed to what the text is
actually saying, which is it's an Ahab

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story. You know, it's also
an Ahab story, and it explicitly says

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it wrath of kan. Yeah.
The Ahab of course being con in that

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one. Yes, uh Ahab will
become is a little bit of a running

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motif through the strongest well in Doomsday
Machine. Wrath of con this episode in

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another Star Trek movie. Okay,
you know I have I'll just get into

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it and I don't. I'm not
like defending it because it's great or anything,

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but I think, what's more interesting
about this one than like a typical

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just like? Ah, Okay,
so I've never read Mobile Dick? What

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no have you? No? You
read Moby Dick? Okay? Uh?

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Pretty classic though, but remind me
why is he so obsessed with finding this

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white whale? What what happened?
It got his leg right, So it's

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very personal. Yeah, sure,
why not. And it's it's it's the

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white whale. It's the thing to
defeat. I think what is different about

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this episode that gives it a leg
up is it's not about well, it's

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a white cloud instead of a white
whale. Thank you. Uh, that's

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all you're you got it, okay, thank you. Uh. It's about

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shame, not revenge. Like at
its core, the revenge is built off

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of shame because this cloud killed this
whole crew, and he blames himself for

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hesitating. Kirk does, and he's
got he's got true survivor's guilt over it.

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And I think that what the episode
does actually really well is then introducing

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the son of the captain who died
as part of that that ship Farragut and

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seeing that same that same shame in
my classic favorite, my favorite theme of

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intergenerational trauma, that shame be transferred
to him, which is often what we

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do as people, Like if we're
experiencing a shame about something that you know,

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came down on us from wherever,
we then translate that shame to younger

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generations. And so that's what it
is and then watching people kind of heal

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in real time, although while they're
healing, they're also getting so many people

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killed. So cool that you're healing
could come with a lot of devastation,

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which is where it feels really bad. But I think that is a little

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bit of why it is appealing to
me because as much as it and also

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I like seeing Kirk fuck up,
I think the idea of like, what

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does it mean to make mistakes?
I think it that is actually very fascinating

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for me. Yes, I it
rankles me a little bit that his mistakes

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seems so strong so quickly out the
gate. Yeah, it's messy. It

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is a messy episode. I think
there is a cleaner episode in here.

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And not only do I think that
the crew thought that as well. Who

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huh who wow? And reading these
are the pointages season two by Mark Cushman.

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Oh really tell me, I know, make no mistakes so much.

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My analysis is cribbed, well,
my facts are cribbed from these are the

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voyages. My analysis comes from that
little noggin. That's all me, that's

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all you tell you, baby.
I love it. Ralph Sinansky talks the

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director of this episode talks about the
silly moment where the cloud, which look,

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I love Star Trek. We've established
this. I'm the Star Trek contingent

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of this podcast. I think there
is something inherently funny too, just wisps

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of smoke being the villain very difficult. And then there's the moment where the

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Smoke Monster gets into Garevik's quarters.
Spock rushes Garavic out and then and then

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attempt to stop the cloud with his
hands. It was so stupid. That's

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it. That's to steal a phrase
that will be used later. That's the

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character's not firing in all Thrusters.
It's It's a great character moment because Spock

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will one hundred percent always protect officers
below him and the rest of the crew.

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But it does look absurd, yes, and I think it's very funny

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because they've had absurd creatures before,
they've had the pizza rug. But they've

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taken it very seriously and it made
sense thematically. And I guess if you're

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going to have a cloud, at
least really lean into the real like like

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fear of that, right, Like, Okay, it's a cloud, so

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how do we fucking defeat that?
It feels very silly to think that you

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could ever, like what the whole
thing of the shape of what it's based

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off of is, Like Kirk couldn't
stop didn't stop it in time, right,

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But it's like, what's firing into
cloud gonna do? Which is what

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I immediately thought to start, Like
I was just like, you know,

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this isn't gonna work, right,
Like I don't know, it's just being

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weird about Yeah, it's a cloud. So it does feel like people aren't

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playing to the top of their intelligence. I mean they're not being written to

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the top of their intelligence, just
like The Deadly Years last week. Yeah,

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sorry, I delete, I delete
media. So I'm trying to remember.

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Remember, as soon as our characters
got infected with radiation sickness and started

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getting older faster, Yeah, all
of our characters got dumb. And this

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is the thing where when media stops
functioning, well, right, well,

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sure, let's not get stuck into
the samantic argument, Kenny. Whenever media

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doesn't work for me, it's probably
sacrificing character in favor of plot, and

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suddenly the same characters are making decisions
that feel stupid, Which is fine for

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your character to make a stupid choice, but it has to feel grounded in

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something that is believable, and I
feel like some boneheaded decisions are made because

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the plot needs to move a certain
way. And what's interesting is that I

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think the back half of this episode
feels a lot stronger than the first half

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of the episode, probably just because
Kirk just becomes so agro right out the

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gate, which is so atypical even
in extremely high pressure situations like the colony

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in Operation Annihilate, where his brother
and his sister in law and his nephew,

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that entire colony's getting attacked by flying
eggs. His first officer is getting

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common deer, and I feel like
Kirk has an even more love ahead.

208
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I supposed to use a cloud and
he just freaks out because that's what the

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episode needs him to do. Yeah, he's holding the idiot ball, which

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is what we call it. That's
what's happening. Who is we? Joel

211
00:19:15.319 --> 00:19:29.240
and I? And who is Joel? Yeahs, sweet sweet partner that I

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and didn't like anything. I think
I was giving the show maybe more credit

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00:19:34.599 --> 00:19:37.920
than it was worth it. That's
because you're a good person, and I

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watch things in bad fate because I
want to win. Yeah, it's funny

215
00:19:44.480 --> 00:19:48.319
because in this way you want this
to lose, which I would think you'd

216
00:19:48.319 --> 00:19:52.000
want it to win, given that
it is your star Trek. You're correct,

217
00:19:52.119 --> 00:19:55.359
right, is a binary one of
these things must be the victor just

218
00:19:55.359 --> 00:20:00.519
to win. I think I I
took it as if Kirk is behaving so

219
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uncharacteristically, this much must be something
so horrific, you know what I mean.

220
00:20:07.799 --> 00:20:12.359
But you're right, I don't,
despite despite it actually being something I

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00:20:12.359 --> 00:20:15.720
think very intense. And again,
and coming back to that concept of shame,

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I maybe if it were any other
character, I would have expected it,

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you know, because like that's how
I behave Probably I just be like

224
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this thing that has been gnawing him
me for years that I've never emotionally dealt

225
00:20:27.839 --> 00:20:33.480
with and never saw it there before. I'm having a literal trauma reaction to

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it, and I am unable to
manage my emotions and I'm going purely into

227
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fight mode. But that's just not
really a thing that Kirk would do.

228
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So yeah, he does end up
being a little out of character. What

229
00:20:44.079 --> 00:20:49.519
could have been maybe a cooler episode
was maybe someone else like having that reaction,

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like someone like a McCoy for instance, who is deeply emotional and very

231
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much like I don't know, and
maybe McCoy's the wrong person, or like

232
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you know, like a Scottie and
like trying to take over the vessel or

233
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something, or like a secondary character
or like this son, the son of

234
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the of the of the Former of
the Dead Captain. I don't know,

235
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something like that. I don't know, a crazy commodore who had their ships

236
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sacrificed to just for stealing a phrase, like a doomsday machine, just like

237
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this cloud. Yeah, this has
already happened. You're right, it was

238
00:21:26.480 --> 00:21:34.559
better. See you're not the only
one that is making that comparison. Our

239
00:21:34.599 --> 00:21:40.960
favorite person, Dorothy Fontana in one
of her many memos behind the scenes of

240
00:21:40.960 --> 00:21:45.200
Star Trek. Right, I find
I agree with many of the producer's comments

241
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on this script, but I am
not quite as disturbed about it as he

242
00:21:48.319 --> 00:21:55.119
is in talking about trying to fine
tune it. Kirk's obsession with getting this

243
00:21:55.200 --> 00:22:00.200
creature is much like commodore Deckers in
the Doomsday Machine, and regarding the teaser

244
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in general, I see touches of
the man trap in it, and the

245
00:22:03.720 --> 00:22:07.680
creature has described so far may have
a tendency to look like the creature in

246
00:22:07.920 --> 00:22:12.839
Metamorphoses. Yeah, yeah, which
exactly. That was another thing I was

247
00:22:12.839 --> 00:22:18.480
thinking. I was like, ah, I've got another cloud. We're gonna

248
00:22:18.480 --> 00:22:22.039
talk to a cloud again? Is
it going to be another lady? Yeah?

249
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And I feel like as mid as
that episode is as well, I

250
00:22:26.880 --> 00:22:33.319
feel like it's using the notion of
qlunkily, it's attempting to analyze the notion

251
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of can you love something whenever it
does not look human? Get me up

252
00:22:40.759 --> 00:22:45.880
bright? Sure, Yeah, that's
the proper reaction. But the cloud here

253
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is yeah, which is a cost
saving measure because they don't have to build

254
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a monster or a ship or anything. You just kind of have to vaguely

255
00:22:57.559 --> 00:23:02.519
make They have to get like some
dry eyes and just kind of usher it

256
00:23:03.039 --> 00:23:07.079
into what is very much a bottle
episode, except they you know, they

257
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do go down to the planet,
but it's a pretty existing set. You

258
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know what I did like about it
because the fact that it was got Kirk,

259
00:23:14.519 --> 00:23:18.200
Spock and McCoy in it. Yeah, it's good. It's got all

260
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my my fave boyfriends. You've thoroughly
convinced me that it's not great. I

261
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think I had a little bit of
faith in it, despite being annoyed by

262
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some pieces, But I liked the
connection between Kirk and this end sign I

263
00:23:34.039 --> 00:23:41.039
did like, I liked what they
were doing emotionally a lot. Yeah,

264
00:23:41.880 --> 00:23:45.880
Because, as I've said already,
I like the idea of exploring what it

265
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means to pass on our trauma to
new generations. And I like the idea

266
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of having having the opportunity to forgive
yourself, and through that self forgiveness and

267
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through that to then be able to
forgive and support these other generations too,

268
00:24:04.880 --> 00:24:10.440
right, Like, I find that
to be very compelling and beautiful. It

269
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does not make up for a mid
episode, which is where I'm with you,

270
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because I think the second half of
this episode is much stronger than the

271
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first half, where the characters are
behaving more in character. Yeah, the

272
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fabulous conversation of Spock and McCoy talking
about the Kirk, about the Kirk being

273
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unfit for command, and then going
to confront the captain, and then the

274
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captain being like, you know what, I see your point. You're asking

275
00:24:42.000 --> 00:24:48.400
good questions and I appreciate it.
And then from there he's kind of successfully

276
00:24:48.400 --> 00:24:55.119
talked down, which is actually pretty
great. Yeah, And then Spock says,

277
00:24:55.319 --> 00:25:00.680
there's no way that facers would have
made a difference. Your fault.

278
00:25:00.240 --> 00:25:03.839
It's not your fault, and then
Kirk is able to pass that knowledge on

279
00:25:04.480 --> 00:25:11.519
to Garavic. Yeah, I'll tell
you what I don't like. I don't

280
00:25:11.559 --> 00:25:15.599
like the moment that Kirk or They're
like, yeah, this this cloud,

281
00:25:15.680 --> 00:25:19.240
it actually stopped and fought us and
like fought back, which proves that it

282
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actually has it's it's sentient and it
is going back to the spawn. So

283
00:25:26.440 --> 00:25:30.240
we need to defeat it because it
will kill people. In that moment,

284
00:25:30.000 --> 00:25:33.960
McCoy was like, you're right.
I'm sorry, and I'm like, no,

285
00:25:33.279 --> 00:25:37.880
McCoy, you were right, Like
you were right, my dude,

286
00:25:38.240 --> 00:25:44.440
like why you have vaccines that need
to go get to the other place,

287
00:25:45.039 --> 00:25:48.960
which I wrote of the planet you
know what the fault a little like is

288
00:25:48.000 --> 00:25:52.200
so funny. Again, I feel
like I've been relating to Oh well,

289
00:25:52.400 --> 00:25:55.759
I feel like I've been relating this
a lot to a lot of stuff for

290
00:25:55.839 --> 00:26:00.240
Last Jedi lately. It's actually my
biggest frustration. It's my only first station

291
00:26:00.359 --> 00:26:07.599
with Last Jedi. My only frustration
with Last Jedi is that PO fucks up

292
00:26:07.960 --> 00:26:12.440
bad and in military situations, as
we have seen people fuck up right,

293
00:26:12.680 --> 00:26:18.079
like people with a lot of power, with a lot of people in their

294
00:26:18.160 --> 00:26:22.400
power fuck up and those people die, and like that's just like not something

295
00:26:22.319 --> 00:26:26.640
that in regular life is obviously tolerated, but like here it is in these

296
00:26:26.640 --> 00:26:29.440
military situations always being tolerated. I'm
like, well, like, okay,

297
00:26:29.480 --> 00:26:32.759
so I think we see this a
lot, but in last Jedi it's fuck,

298
00:26:32.839 --> 00:26:38.319
it's bad, right, and he
should have been like properly, properly

299
00:26:38.480 --> 00:26:42.559
like uh, he sort of should
have seen proper consequences to it, and

300
00:26:42.559 --> 00:26:45.400
he does. And in fact,
again, my only gripe is at the

301
00:26:45.519 --> 00:26:52.720
end it's like Leah and uh holdo
or like I like them, I'm just

302
00:26:52.799 --> 00:26:56.359
like, okay, again, only
gripe. No one come for me.

303
00:26:56.920 --> 00:27:02.039
That that's my only gripe come for
me for other things? Why am I

304
00:27:02.079 --> 00:27:07.519
saying this? Oh? I just
feel like I do need there to be

305
00:27:07.599 --> 00:27:11.240
consequences for things sometimes, Like I
do need there to be consequences for these

306
00:27:11.279 --> 00:27:17.240
weird decisions and for people to be
held responsible and just be like you because

307
00:27:17.279 --> 00:27:22.720
perfection is not ever going to happen, right, But also like there are

308
00:27:22.359 --> 00:27:26.079
yeah, I don't know, it
just gets a little too much into like

309
00:27:26.279 --> 00:27:32.319
authoritarian like police force shit to me
that it's like, oh, the cop

310
00:27:32.400 --> 00:27:36.680
made a mistake. So he's not
gonna be like, uh, penalized,

311
00:27:36.680 --> 00:27:41.480
what sort I'm looking for. He's
not gonna like, he's not gonna cottish,

312
00:27:41.480 --> 00:27:44.519
he's not gonna be punished for He's
just like, oh, he's gonna

313
00:27:44.559 --> 00:27:48.359
be on paid leave for a month
for shooting a black man, you know.

314
00:27:48.440 --> 00:27:51.759
And it's just like sometimes you do, so it gets a little squishy

315
00:27:51.799 --> 00:27:56.160
for me. I'm like, I
don't like that, which is funny because

316
00:27:56.240 --> 00:28:04.799
in Ewoks they also fuck up bad
presumably, and they also don't really face

317
00:28:04.920 --> 00:28:10.759
many consequences and punishments for it,
which I was like, how fascinating that

318
00:28:10.799 --> 00:28:17.119
we were like playing around with this
right now in two different episodes, because

319
00:28:17.119 --> 00:28:22.079
it's weird, it's funny. I
did like prowbeating a lot. I don't

320
00:28:22.119 --> 00:28:26.240
know what it was, but I
just really enjoyed these two episodes of the

321
00:28:26.359 --> 00:28:30.279
Yo. Yeah again, I thought
the second one was really good. I

322
00:28:30.319 --> 00:28:38.880
just got annoyed by the second one
was devastating setting I hope I don't mean

323
00:28:38.880 --> 00:28:42.839
that in the hyperbolic sense, however, every time that Baga felt sad,

324
00:28:44.359 --> 00:28:51.440
oh my heart breaks, because I
just I cannot deal with animals suffering at

325
00:28:51.480 --> 00:28:57.440
all. Yeah, it hurt,
Like shit, I couldn't handle it.

326
00:29:00.279 --> 00:29:03.720
But I to connect to your previous
point, I believe you're talking about the

327
00:29:03.759 --> 00:29:11.279
fact that are four mains lose the
prow uh low grays canoe, yes,

328
00:29:11.759 --> 00:29:21.480
no, Churpis canoe canoe of turpis
canoe and then are able to basically have

329
00:29:21.559 --> 00:29:26.799
the status quo reset by getting a
new prow the trip I was going to

330
00:29:26.799 --> 00:29:29.799
provide anyways, because we've got a
festival. We got the fishing festival.

331
00:29:30.960 --> 00:29:34.000
Yeah. So yeah, they they
are supposed to be taking care of this

332
00:29:34.119 --> 00:29:37.839
boat or just be cleaning it,
and then they lose the this like beautifully

333
00:29:37.880 --> 00:29:41.920
carved prow. So the first time, I was like, are they ever

334
00:29:41.000 --> 00:29:45.319
actually in trouble internally and not from
like an external force that they like have

335
00:29:45.400 --> 00:29:49.240
to hide this from these adults and
like the consequences could be dire from like

336
00:29:49.279 --> 00:29:56.880
a community perspective, I was like, Wow, that's wild. So yeah,

337
00:29:57.039 --> 00:30:04.640
I it's it's interesting. And they
they do end up getting like because

338
00:30:04.720 --> 00:30:14.039
they ultimately destroyed the ship of the
Good. Sorry, you know, it

339
00:30:14.119 --> 00:30:18.160
just happened to me, Kenny.
I just realized that I was just making

340
00:30:18.200 --> 00:30:22.079
bread and I forgot to put honey
in the dough and now I'm distracting.

341
00:30:25.519 --> 00:30:27.559
That's the whole point of making a
hola is that it's sweet. So if

342
00:30:27.559 --> 00:30:30.720
there's no honey in your bread,
do you need to go put? I

343
00:30:30.759 --> 00:30:34.799
can't, So you're just gonna make
some delicious bread. I guess I'll just

344
00:30:34.799 --> 00:30:37.400
make bread that isn't actually hollow,
or I'll just go buy a hola.

345
00:30:40.920 --> 00:30:45.160
All of that for nothing, I
don't know what. How like you were

346
00:30:45.200 --> 00:30:51.240
saying something and then I was like, there's usually that's usually a sweet bread.

347
00:30:53.200 --> 00:30:56.200
And I was like, why is
there no sugar in that recipe?

348
00:30:56.240 --> 00:31:00.799
And I was like, there sure
was. You just fucked up. Speaking

349
00:31:00.960 --> 00:31:03.680
of fucking up, and I think
you need to suffer some consequences. I

350
00:31:03.680 --> 00:31:08.480
should. I should be punished for
fucking up my bread. You know what?

351
00:31:08.559 --> 00:31:11.279
This is what makes a podcast good
is when you're in the middle of

352
00:31:11.319 --> 00:31:15.680
having a good conversation about ewoks and
then you realize you made your bread wrong.

353
00:31:18.799 --> 00:31:25.079
Look, so two do Wicket and
the three other heroes realized they shouldn't

354
00:31:25.119 --> 00:31:30.960
have commandeered Chirpa's canoe for a little
joy ride. He was have you forgotten

355
00:31:32.039 --> 00:31:36.480
rafting? No? But I would
love to go rafting. Oh my gosh,

356
00:31:36.519 --> 00:31:38.799
I do hate being outside, but
I love being on the water.

357
00:31:40.359 --> 00:31:42.559
Yeah, oh yeah. I raffed
a lot, or I used to raft.

358
00:31:42.640 --> 00:31:47.759
I raffed whenever I am able to. I took an entire trip down

359
00:31:47.799 --> 00:31:55.160
the Colorado River with my father Jeff
Webster. Jeff Webster and I have you

360
00:31:55.160 --> 00:32:00.119
know, we've done like inflatable kayaks
through pretty heavy whitewater and stuff, and

361
00:32:00.119 --> 00:32:05.200
I'm like, it's and I just
was thinking I would be so fucking scared

362
00:32:05.400 --> 00:32:10.519
to take a wooden canoe down a
river. That is actually fun. Fact

363
00:32:12.240 --> 00:32:17.200
Powell so who was the one who
led expeditions down the Colorado River through the

364
00:32:17.200 --> 00:32:22.559
Grand Canyon, so I kind of
literally he and his steam took boats down

365
00:32:22.640 --> 00:32:27.000
through the entirety of it to kind
of explore the rapids. They did it

366
00:32:27.039 --> 00:32:32.759
in these wooden boats, which is
just wild today wild because you're gonna smash

367
00:32:32.839 --> 00:32:37.039
right into a goddamn rock, You're
gonna like break apart. So they had

368
00:32:37.039 --> 00:32:39.519
to like poort, like to like
poort the boats a lot, like around

369
00:32:39.640 --> 00:32:43.599
very very big rapids where they literally
have to take the boats out and walk

370
00:32:43.640 --> 00:32:45.480
them around to like the other side
of like to the end of the rapid.

371
00:32:46.960 --> 00:32:50.519
But that's what I was thinking of
watching this is I was just like

372
00:32:50.880 --> 00:32:55.799
dude wood in a wooden canoe in
rivers with rapids, you're gonna hit them

373
00:32:55.799 --> 00:33:00.880
on a rock. And sure enough, everybody hit rocks in rockhetting. You

374
00:33:00.920 --> 00:33:07.240
know who didn't hit rocks in pro
Beaten though. Two our new friends,

375
00:33:07.279 --> 00:33:15.759
the Schebes love them, which on
exterior looking, which is all looking,

376
00:33:17.000 --> 00:33:23.279
are Beaver's that water ski That's exactly
what I wrote here, beavers that waterski

377
00:33:23.359 --> 00:33:28.599
for folk said, don't actually watch
these episodes, which and they're just listening,

378
00:33:28.839 --> 00:33:34.079
just picture beaver. Then it's also
water skiing. They but like their

379
00:33:34.079 --> 00:33:38.000
feet are skis, Like they don't
have separate water skis. Their feet are

380
00:33:38.039 --> 00:33:45.440
skis, and they're propelling themselves along
somehow, somehow. I'll just imagine the

381
00:33:45.480 --> 00:33:50.000
force maybe like they're little tails,
but we just can't see them because they're

382
00:33:50.000 --> 00:33:52.079
going so fat. Yeah, the
force is better, and that's more in

383
00:33:52.240 --> 00:33:55.400
universe. So it is more in
universe. Let's say that scapes are probably

384
00:33:55.480 --> 00:34:01.839
the most medichlorian rich animals. Can
you imagine the most force sensitive are the

385
00:34:01.920 --> 00:34:09.480
Schemes and George Lucas just like Schemes
scopes have uh Midi Chlorian counts that are

386
00:34:09.559 --> 00:34:15.119
so much higher than master Yoda.
It is so funny to me you said

387
00:34:15.159 --> 00:34:21.199
the force, and because Ewoks sometimes
feels so separated from the Star Wars universe,

388
00:34:21.239 --> 00:34:27.639
I was like, the force of
what the force? The oh remember

389
00:34:27.679 --> 00:34:31.119
that thing, my thing? The
force? The force? What is that

390
00:34:31.920 --> 00:34:40.280
it surrounds us, binds us,
penetrates us, yanks all living things.

391
00:34:40.719 --> 00:34:45.440
Okay, Really, medichlorians is like
mitochondria, the powerhouse of the cell.

392
00:34:46.000 --> 00:34:51.920
Oh, so too are medichlorians so
too? And so the more mediclorians you

393
00:34:51.960 --> 00:34:55.400
have, the more for sensitive you
are got it great and only for sensitive

394
00:34:55.440 --> 00:35:02.960
people could become Jedi. Yes nah
ah not uh uh not true, sister,

395
00:35:04.559 --> 00:35:07.400
not gound it, not gonna do
it? Not true anymore? Loving

396
00:35:07.480 --> 00:35:12.159
it It's not true? Do you
see that? You saw that? Right?

397
00:35:12.480 --> 00:35:15.239
That? Like, I don't know
who said it officially, It might

398
00:35:15.239 --> 00:35:20.239
have been it might have been our
our buddy Dave Filoni, because there was

399
00:35:20.280 --> 00:35:25.400
pushback on the whole Sabine being uh
trained thing. Like I even at first

400
00:35:25.480 --> 00:35:29.280
was just like can Sabine be trained? And then I kind of like that.

401
00:35:29.360 --> 00:35:30.920
I came back and I was like, what the fuck am I talking

402
00:35:30.920 --> 00:35:32.840
about. I'm the one who's like
very pro that, like anyone can like

403
00:35:34.480 --> 00:35:38.039
engage with the Force and like anyone
could be a Jedi kind of why the

404
00:35:38.079 --> 00:35:42.440
freaking end of Last Jedi Rips and
the reason that Ray is so good at

405
00:35:42.440 --> 00:35:51.559
this stuff is because, yeah,
which is the best reason. So what's

406
00:35:52.000 --> 00:35:53.519
so? I think it was Dave
Filony. He was just like, yeah,

407
00:35:53.559 --> 00:35:57.559
anyone could be trained in the Force
because everyone, and I was just

408
00:35:57.599 --> 00:35:59.639
like, fuck, yes, this
is good. I'm glad we didn't like

409
00:35:59.719 --> 00:36:04.679
goat on that because like I am
tired. I'm tired of this bullshit all

410
00:36:04.719 --> 00:36:12.239
this to say the schemes we should
Yeah, and Tebo can speak their language,

411
00:36:12.840 --> 00:36:16.199
Yeah, I don't. I don't
like filony Joe anning and giving extra

412
00:36:16.239 --> 00:36:22.159
textual explaining that anyone can. But
we're not here to litigate. Well,

413
00:36:22.719 --> 00:36:28.320
I think he's just reinforcing blasted eyes. Point. Look, let's get down

414
00:36:28.320 --> 00:36:31.719
to brass tacks. When are you
gonna start wearing a full on fedora?

415
00:36:32.760 --> 00:36:37.559
Get it out of this. I
added, I do like that little flippy

416
00:36:37.559 --> 00:36:40.320
hat thing, and I like flip
it onto my head and I'm just like

417
00:36:40.559 --> 00:36:43.719
you never seen me, and Dave
Filoni in the room at the same time.

418
00:36:43.800 --> 00:36:47.960
I can't say that I have Yeah, anyway, yeah it was,

419
00:36:49.119 --> 00:36:52.239
it's it's good, it's good.
But those little those little e walks,

420
00:36:52.480 --> 00:36:57.559
they end up coming back and they're
honest, They're like they uh uh they

421
00:36:57.599 --> 00:37:04.239
fuck over the de lox, which
is very again Ugain. Latara gets in

422
00:37:04.559 --> 00:37:13.280
a good uh jab at the uh
do lack wifey pooa erga erga and is

423
00:37:13.360 --> 00:37:16.880
like says her like bathing suit is
tacky. But then she goes, but

424
00:37:17.039 --> 00:37:22.039
you wear it well, it's really
really easy to shame someone. But I

425
00:37:22.199 --> 00:37:25.440
love that Latara turned it around.
It's like it does it look tacky,

426
00:37:25.480 --> 00:37:29.840
but it looks good on you.
And she doesn't mean it as a slight

427
00:37:30.000 --> 00:37:34.480
she means it genuinely. Yeah,
it's nice. It's a nice, nice

428
00:37:34.519 --> 00:37:39.599
moment. It's a nice mode in
the middle of a battle. Yeah.

429
00:37:39.920 --> 00:37:45.559
But they come back and and Sherpa's
just like, why would I potish you?

430
00:37:45.599 --> 00:37:47.679
And It's like, I mean,
okay, again, I'm not looking

431
00:37:47.679 --> 00:37:52.880
for punishment. I'm just interested in
this, Like, what what are the

432
00:37:52.960 --> 00:37:58.679
lessons we learn? Like just because
we were like ultimately right, or we

433
00:37:58.840 --> 00:38:02.239
like do a brave thing? Does
that mean we I don't know what am

434
00:38:02.239 --> 00:38:07.039
I I don't want to. I
don't I'm not I'm not interested in that

435
00:38:07.119 --> 00:38:10.679
kind of culture. Ultimately, it
is a show for babies, Okay,

436
00:38:10.760 --> 00:38:15.039
well Star Trek is it. Yeah, it's adult. It's an adult science

437
00:38:15.079 --> 00:38:19.880
fiction show where they fight clouds.
Yeah, and no one's ever like Kirk,

438
00:38:20.119 --> 00:38:22.559
you got so many people fucking killed. They're like, oh, you

439
00:38:22.559 --> 00:38:27.360
were right, and it's just like, I mean, there was the episode

440
00:38:27.400 --> 00:38:34.440
Court Martial where he was on trial
for court martial for he didn't do it

441
00:38:35.480 --> 00:38:38.880
eventually, Yeah, but he didn't
do it like in this case it did

442
00:38:38.920 --> 00:38:45.719
it. He was very reckless.
Yeah, he literally drove into a cloud.

443
00:38:45.840 --> 00:38:47.119
It's a cloud. Of course,
it's going to get into your vents

444
00:38:47.199 --> 00:38:52.559
system. And like, no one's
ever like wow, Kirk, Like that

445
00:38:52.719 --> 00:38:55.480
was very uncharacteristic, So maybe we
should like, is there I don't know.

446
00:38:55.760 --> 00:39:00.840
He cut to Aspen on a foggy
morning and she takes or claymore out

447
00:39:00.840 --> 00:39:05.320
there. It starts and Joel is
just like what are you doing? And

448
00:39:05.320 --> 00:39:10.840
You're like, ah, this fire
out of here. I guess what I

449
00:39:10.840 --> 00:39:16.559
am saying is I have no interest
in a punitive culture. An authoritarian system.

450
00:39:16.800 --> 00:39:21.880
But I do have interest in like, especially if you are occupying these

451
00:39:21.920 --> 00:39:25.079
like spaces of like power and authoritarian
power, Like what does it look like

452
00:39:25.119 --> 00:39:30.000
to be held accountable? Perhaps Tirpa
is taking into account the fact that it's

453
00:39:30.039 --> 00:39:38.840
clear that when Wicket, Nissa and
Tebow and Latara are confessing, it's very

454
00:39:38.880 --> 00:39:45.760
clear that they feel a great deal
of shame. And Tirpa, being the

455
00:39:45.840 --> 00:39:51.159
warm, knowledgeable, thoughtful leader that
he is, he's able to recognize that

456
00:39:51.199 --> 00:39:57.000
there will be no greater punishment than
the shame that these four feel. Okay,

457
00:39:57.119 --> 00:40:00.639
that sounds terrible to me because now
they're stuck with shame and there's nowhere

458
00:40:00.679 --> 00:40:05.079
to put that shame. But he
is absolving them by saying, would you

459
00:40:05.159 --> 00:40:08.199
just put this prow on there?
And just being like water under the bridge.

460
00:40:08.400 --> 00:40:12.320
Okay, Sometimes you just have to
learn how to manage your own shame

461
00:40:13.519 --> 00:40:17.440
sometimes, But then sometimes that shame
just gets passed along to the next son

462
00:40:17.519 --> 00:40:22.880
of a dead captain, you know, you know what I mean, not

463
00:40:22.920 --> 00:40:28.920
everybody. He's gonna have a Spock
and a McCoy them down. Subsequent encin

464
00:40:29.000 --> 00:40:35.920
Garovics, But there are no subsequent
encin Garaviks because oddly enough, you kind

465
00:40:35.920 --> 00:40:42.239
of see ensen Gerovic again and Start
took Prodigy really little a little bit really

466
00:40:42.320 --> 00:40:50.000
when in the second half of season
one, whenever they go to the tribute

467
00:40:50.320 --> 00:40:59.519
to tos Planet the shuttlecraft, you
hear the final logs of ensen Gerovic all

468
00:41:00.159 --> 00:41:06.280
which is pretty cool. Oh yeah, and Prodigy or start really not in

469
00:41:06.360 --> 00:41:10.320
lower decks, not in lower deck
Prodigy fun that it is fun. That's

470
00:41:10.320 --> 00:41:14.679
a fun that's a good show.
Not as good as you. Oh my

471
00:41:14.719 --> 00:41:25.039
god, stop it stop no,
let's glea. I love them so much,

472
00:41:25.760 --> 00:41:35.960
bad baby baby's anyway, do we
like the soundboard? I like the

473
00:41:36.000 --> 00:41:45.199
soundboard sounds like you. Oh my
god. Yeah. We can just keep

474
00:41:45.239 --> 00:41:49.440
adding ridiculous sound effects to it.
Great job. If you want me to

475
00:41:49.480 --> 00:41:52.800
ask some sound effects to the soundboard, please send us a message on Instagram

476
00:41:53.360 --> 00:41:57.840
search trek wars pod or hop over
to Blue Sky. Send us an email

477
00:41:57.920 --> 00:42:00.719
trek worse pot at gmail dot com. Let me know what sound do you

478
00:42:00.719 --> 00:42:04.480
want to hear on the soundbourn You're
funny. Someone's just gonna be like POAs.

479
00:42:05.639 --> 00:42:12.239
I'll do it poodas or maybe one
of Boga's noises. Oh Bogas.

480
00:42:12.599 --> 00:42:16.480
Speaking of Boca's noises so many sad
Boga noises. Part of like, also

481
00:42:16.480 --> 00:42:22.320
what makes that episode so hard to
watch is uh he it like is trying

482
00:42:22.400 --> 00:42:28.000
so hard and everyone's being such a
shit to him, Like he tries to

483
00:42:28.079 --> 00:42:30.880
like carry a basket that's too heavy
for him, and instead of like the

484
00:42:31.519 --> 00:42:36.440
uh e wok mom being like oh
gosh, that must have been so much,

485
00:42:36.440 --> 00:42:39.119
He's just like my basket and I'm
like, oh, it's show yeah,

486
00:42:39.119 --> 00:42:42.960
I forgot to show do showdy does
that? I was just like,

487
00:42:43.039 --> 00:42:47.079
show do excuse me? I'm like, oh my god. Nissa literally lets

488
00:42:47.119 --> 00:42:54.519
that like terrible changeling Sulky come into
her home and sleep inside of her home

489
00:42:54.559 --> 00:42:59.960
on her soft bed, and Bogu
has to sleep outside and like a love

490
00:43:00.000 --> 00:43:04.239
Oh it looks so devastated I was. I was enraged. I was like

491
00:43:04.360 --> 00:43:07.840
filled with so much discomfort. I
don't like it. So another one,

492
00:43:07.880 --> 00:43:14.400
another situation of just like what is
an appropriate like response? Because it's like

493
00:43:14.480 --> 00:43:16.159
Nissa's like, I'm so sorry I
did that, and I'm like is that

494
00:43:16.360 --> 00:43:21.079
enough? Is that enough to just
be like I'm so sorry that I like

495
00:43:22.360 --> 00:43:27.440
hurt you so bad? What would
they have done if silk had like not

496
00:43:27.559 --> 00:43:31.119
been like the familiar of a witch
bitch? What would they have done that?

497
00:43:31.119 --> 00:43:37.599
That is a quibble that I have
with the episode because obviously has a

498
00:43:37.719 --> 00:43:43.920
rival in Selke the Kwarf k Soilke
is a kwarf, the Karf is Silky

499
00:43:44.639 --> 00:43:50.079
great mmm, and Silk just seems
a little bit too good to be true.

500
00:43:50.280 --> 00:43:54.079
Guess what. Silk is secretly a
dragon the whole time and becomes an

501
00:43:54.159 --> 00:44:00.760
ugly little dragon. And I kind
of wished that Silk had not been pretending

502
00:44:00.920 --> 00:44:06.400
to be that gorge but instead was
just gorge the entire time, just also

503
00:44:06.440 --> 00:44:09.480
happened to be a little jerk and
a little stinker, because sometimes hotties are

504
00:44:09.559 --> 00:44:15.280
jerks. Yep, sometimes hotties are
jerks like me. Sometimes I'm a jerk

505
00:44:15.320 --> 00:44:20.519
because I'm what a hotty. Finally
we're getting we're getting this. You have

506
00:44:20.599 --> 00:44:29.840
been so mean to me off microphone. It's hotties do no? Oh?

507
00:44:29.880 --> 00:44:32.320
Is that true? Do you want
me to show my true colors on Mike?

508
00:44:32.760 --> 00:44:37.760
Yeah? Just like when Silky's showed
its weird true colors tobog at the

509
00:44:37.760 --> 00:44:40.400
beginning when it went but I was
like, oh my god, no one's

510
00:44:40.400 --> 00:44:44.239
gonna believe me. He didn't say
that he doesn't talk, but you could

511
00:44:44.280 --> 00:44:52.239
tell. Uh. This also reminded
me of the stuff in the Star Wars

512
00:44:52.280 --> 00:44:58.639
Holiday special documentary and Disturbance in the
Forest, talking about the fact that Lucas

513
00:44:58.679 --> 00:45:02.519
had floated starting off Star Wars with
the Wookie family and all of this nonverbal

514
00:45:02.519 --> 00:45:08.039
storytelling, and the fact that our
central character in this one is Boga Boga,

515
00:45:08.400 --> 00:45:12.840
And I think it's one of the
stronger episodes because of that, even

516
00:45:12.880 --> 00:45:16.039
though it is pulling lots of tropes, but I think the writing is there,

517
00:45:16.159 --> 00:45:22.119
the execution is there. Yes,
it's a great episode about trying to

518
00:45:22.159 --> 00:45:28.559
let people as they are and not
necessarily abandon something whenever something bright and shiny

519
00:45:29.800 --> 00:45:34.360
comes along. Yeah, that is
you're right. That is like what it

520
00:45:34.440 --> 00:45:37.679
is, And you're right. It's
about babies for babies. They're babies,

521
00:45:37.719 --> 00:45:42.840
they're kids, and them doing that. Yeah, I'm not saying that like

522
00:45:42.920 --> 00:45:50.079
anybody needs to face consequences. And
I think Boga easily forgiving Nisa is like

523
00:45:50.519 --> 00:45:55.000
a testament to his sweet nature and
his kindness and his trust that sometimes we

524
00:45:55.079 --> 00:45:59.599
mess up. And what I'm just
saying, Kenny, is what's the degree

525
00:45:59.599 --> 00:46:06.800
to which we mess up where really
we've messed up because I was very upset,

526
00:46:07.679 --> 00:46:10.039
Like it seems like the commonality with
these with all three of these things

527
00:46:10.079 --> 00:46:15.039
is the fact that you wish that
everyone had consequences. I want them all

528
00:46:15.360 --> 00:46:20.079
to go to jail. Where everyone
in these episodes dealing with some variation of

529
00:46:20.119 --> 00:46:22.840
shame, whether it's a shame of
a failed job, the shame of doing

530
00:46:22.920 --> 00:46:28.480
something that you weren't supposed to,
or the shame of in Boga's case,

531
00:46:28.519 --> 00:46:31.599
the shame of not being able to
do better than you are. Yeah,

532
00:46:32.000 --> 00:46:36.559
like just a shame of not being
enough. Yeah. By the way,

533
00:46:36.599 --> 00:46:39.960
I want to be very clear that
there's a difference between me jokingly going on

534
00:46:40.000 --> 00:46:46.760
and on about consequences between a captain
of a ship and children. Just want

535
00:46:46.800 --> 00:46:51.159
to be very clear. You think
that captains should not face consequences because they're

536
00:46:51.159 --> 00:46:55.000
trained professionals, never and kids should
face consequences because they don't know better because

537
00:46:55.000 --> 00:47:00.960
they're dummies. Look, I face
consequences. Look how I turned out constantly?

538
00:47:01.039 --> 00:47:09.960
Can you not yell at me?
And just for the record, that's

539
00:47:10.199 --> 00:47:17.039
the opposite of what I'm saying,
Just in case people don't know. Sorry,

540
00:47:17.079 --> 00:47:23.559
Chasm and irony. Yeah, but
I don't know. I'm just looking

541
00:47:23.599 --> 00:47:30.239
for connection. I'm looking for someone
to be mad about. I mean,

542
00:47:31.480 --> 00:47:37.559
I hadn't really connected any of the
thematic lines through these episodes. I think

543
00:47:37.519 --> 00:47:42.639
your strong thesis that shame runs through
all these things quite powerfully. Yes,

544
00:47:43.039 --> 00:47:49.199
And then also just looking about how
these properties treat shame, and even though

545
00:47:49.280 --> 00:47:55.480
Kirk is acting way out of character, it's whenever the shame becomes prevalent,

546
00:47:57.960 --> 00:48:01.360
it then becomes a community issue where
they are trying to absolve Kirk of his

547
00:48:01.400 --> 00:48:09.519
guilt while also to minimize the consequences
that Kirk is inflicting upon the crew due

548
00:48:09.559 --> 00:48:19.440
to his obsession. We're trying to
fight the clap. Yeah, I'm going

549
00:48:19.480 --> 00:48:22.199
to the found family trope that asks
in love so well, And then in

550
00:48:22.239 --> 00:48:30.440
regards to shame, perhaps and at
least prow beaten, it becomes an individual

551
00:48:30.480 --> 00:48:37.559
thing that our characters cope with because
Kirk isn't necessarily aware that he's well,

552
00:48:37.599 --> 00:48:43.679
he is ashamed, but he's not
necessarily he's so emotionally involved, it's not

553
00:48:43.679 --> 00:48:46.599
necessarily cognizant of the problems that shame
is inflicting, and so then it becomes

554
00:48:46.719 --> 00:48:54.880
you know, ashue. But with
prowbeaten, it becomes an issue of individual

555
00:48:54.880 --> 00:49:00.159
awareness and becoming aware and realizing that
you need to overcome them. And then

556
00:49:00.239 --> 00:49:06.039
once you personally admit your shortcomings,
then it can become a community issue.

557
00:49:07.199 --> 00:49:09.440
Yeah, yeah, you know what, I'm gonna pop in and I'm gonna

558
00:49:09.760 --> 00:49:16.920
shift it all on its head.
It is about in all three. It

559
00:49:17.000 --> 00:49:23.239
is about if we are functioning alone
in our shame, we will be consumed

560
00:49:23.320 --> 00:49:29.159
by it and in that communal assistance
and support and love. Like he has

561
00:49:29.239 --> 00:49:34.239
two best friends and they're they're acting
in the interest of a ship, of

562
00:49:34.280 --> 00:49:37.800
course, but they also and the
people that need this medicine and everything else,

563
00:49:37.800 --> 00:49:40.760
but they are also acting in the
interest of someone they love dearly.

564
00:49:42.320 --> 00:49:46.239
And to your point, Chief Taba
loves these kids and wants to help,

565
00:49:46.320 --> 00:49:51.400
like to spell them of the shame
and support them and move forward. And

566
00:49:51.599 --> 00:49:53.800
you know, too well, we
can just assume that Bia is such a

567
00:49:53.840 --> 00:49:57.719
good sweet baby that he's like,
hey, I don't want you to carry

568
00:49:57.719 --> 00:50:00.760
the shame with you. Sometimes we
mess up, and all in the fact

569
00:50:00.800 --> 00:50:04.400
that you have said to me that
you are sorry, that's enough and let's

570
00:50:04.400 --> 00:50:09.480
move forward. So truly they are
all stories about how if we remain isolated

571
00:50:09.519 --> 00:50:13.599
in our shame, we can it's
very hard for us to break out of

572
00:50:13.639 --> 00:50:16.360
it, and it is through connection
and love and community that we're able to

573
00:50:16.360 --> 00:50:21.480
move past it. Even in Baga's
Rival, where Bacha is just down in

574
00:50:21.559 --> 00:50:28.639
the pit so ashamed because just like
you said, though I forget the clean

575
00:50:28.800 --> 00:50:34.639
phrasing that you use, but he
just doesn't feel good enough. Whenever Nissa

576
00:50:34.800 --> 00:50:42.800
is kidnapped by Jo Drew the Enchantress, well specifically by Silky the Quarf,

577
00:50:42.880 --> 00:50:47.679
and then imprisoned by Jo Drew the
Enchantress Ja Drew, J Drew, J

578
00:50:47.800 --> 00:50:52.840
Drew. That's it J Drew,
J Drew, J ju. The chances

579
00:50:53.360 --> 00:51:00.400
spelled like Ja Drew, but it's
pronounced J Drew. Thank you. Boga

580
00:51:00.679 --> 00:51:05.800
charges into help without any thinking of
this will better my station in life.

581
00:51:07.280 --> 00:51:13.599
Perhaps shame has overcome through service.
Shame is overcome just like you said,

582
00:51:13.599 --> 00:51:17.000
through community. It's a you know, I've like literally turned around and like

583
00:51:17.119 --> 00:51:21.280
the way I started with all of
these, like I'm just I'm like,

584
00:51:21.360 --> 00:51:23.960
actually, you know what, Despite
this being very similar to the story that

585
00:51:24.039 --> 00:51:30.519
just came before, the fact that
Nissa is abducted makes a lot more narrative

586
00:51:30.679 --> 00:51:35.960
and like sense from like an emotional
relationship perspective in this one, like obviously

587
00:51:36.000 --> 00:51:39.519
everybody wants to like everybody loves Nissa, but in this specific case, Boga

588
00:51:39.679 --> 00:51:47.320
loves Nissa. Yeah, true beauty
and the beast in Lancas Yes, yeah

589
00:51:47.400 --> 00:51:53.280
he and so he is a hero
and when it really came down to it,

590
00:51:53.360 --> 00:52:00.079
his sweet Nissa was taken, not
just anyone, his Nisa. So

591
00:52:00.159 --> 00:52:04.760
I will complain less about it.
Oh my gosh, Wow, Kenny,

592
00:52:04.800 --> 00:52:07.519
this is hilarious. You turned me
around on the Star Trek episode. I

593
00:52:07.519 --> 00:52:12.480
now like it less, and I
now like the U Wok episodes more.

594
00:52:12.639 --> 00:52:16.800
So. You did it. I
made Star Wars win wonderful upstanding. I

595
00:52:16.920 --> 00:52:22.360
like what you did. Cool.
Do you want to play a little game

596
00:52:24.639 --> 00:52:30.440
A long time ago start date?
This week? I quoted a boat,

597
00:52:30.079 --> 00:52:36.199
I dated a geek, but none
of them could warp mine drive into hyper

598
00:52:36.400 --> 00:52:47.280
space. The best of both worlds
kept me in the second place. Captain's

599
00:52:47.400 --> 00:52:53.199
log on a Halla Kron I wanted
a song. I penned a song.

600
00:52:54.039 --> 00:53:08.440
Seventeen more minutes subviies in Super High
Def aboard the USS Enterprise DT. Don't

601
00:53:08.440 --> 00:53:14.039
you take my walk lighter and clip
it. Don't you take my red schord,

602
00:53:14.079 --> 00:53:17.880
buddy and nip it if you spill
the tea, I'm gonna sip it.

603
00:53:19.559 --> 00:53:23.880
A starship it Wow. The answer
to your question is yes, I

604
00:53:23.880 --> 00:53:30.239
would love to play a game.
Clearly, clearly sweet. Okay, So

605
00:53:30.760 --> 00:53:39.079
we are ranking. We are providing
our favorite ships of the stars or vehicles

606
00:53:39.119 --> 00:53:43.199
as the case may be, with
where we currently are with e walks,

607
00:53:43.679 --> 00:53:50.440
and then also have a favorite romantic
ships or relationships. So what do you

608
00:53:50.440 --> 00:53:53.360
think? What are you thinking?
Kenny? I'll go first. Yeah,

609
00:53:53.440 --> 00:54:01.800
I'm choosing Trump his canoe. Baby, It's a really good canoe. That's

610
00:54:01.840 --> 00:54:06.360
super that's super good. I love
it. A good vehicle. Yeah,

611
00:54:06.400 --> 00:54:10.760
I love boats, love boats.
My SIMP for boats, SIMP for boats.

612
00:54:12.559 --> 00:54:16.599
Yeah, uh love it. The
prow is gorgeous and then not only

613
00:54:16.639 --> 00:54:21.719
whenever they lose the prow. Just
make no mistake. I'd never heard the

614
00:54:21.719 --> 00:54:28.599
phrase prowl before watching this episode.
No, because even though I am a

615
00:54:28.679 --> 00:54:35.159
SIMP for boats, I'm barely ever
around boats. I love the canoe.

616
00:54:36.159 --> 00:54:38.599
It's great. Well you know what's
funny? No, I don't please answer?

617
00:54:39.519 --> 00:54:45.800
What is comedy? Uh? Since
ships starships are basically just boats of

618
00:54:45.880 --> 00:54:52.079
the sky. You know kind there's
skyboats, there's skyboats. You've seen Treasure

619
00:54:52.079 --> 00:54:57.199
Planet, right, Yeah, that's
that's basically the concept. They're in space,

620
00:54:57.440 --> 00:55:00.679
so it's like treasure treasure island,
but it's the whole planet is one

621
00:55:00.679 --> 00:55:04.639
big treasure. I love it.
I love that movie so much. I

622
00:55:04.679 --> 00:55:08.360
love it. It's perfect. Everyone's
a hater. Are you a hater?

623
00:55:10.239 --> 00:55:19.639
You're hating it? Remember, even
though I've seen that movie within recent history,

624
00:55:20.000 --> 00:55:22.000
i'd have to go to my letter
box to see what I said.

625
00:55:22.440 --> 00:55:25.199
Oh my god, it's it's fabulous. Uh. It's got the goo Goo

626
00:55:25.199 --> 00:55:29.960
dolls in it, singing a song
that makes me cry every time I watch

627
00:55:29.960 --> 00:55:34.639
it. So it makes sense that
like, yeah, a boat would also

628
00:55:34.760 --> 00:55:38.559
be another boat would be a good
case here, which so either for that,

629
00:55:38.719 --> 00:55:42.039
but I guess Star Trek you know
what it is. I'm going to

630
00:55:42.119 --> 00:55:45.920
go for my my vehicle, my
my ship. Since we've obviously there are

631
00:55:45.920 --> 00:55:50.239
no real ships in this one.
I'm going to go for the white whale

632
00:55:50.239 --> 00:55:57.519
cloud cloud got it. Presumably it
is a ship for itself because it can

633
00:55:58.119 --> 00:56:05.679
move through space really fast. It
can so, which then makes their problem

634
00:56:05.719 --> 00:56:09.360
of trapping the cloud inside of event
and just kind of flushing it out.

635
00:56:09.880 --> 00:56:15.119
Kind of a problem. It's it's
the more the more we talk about it,

636
00:56:15.119 --> 00:56:17.360
the more stupid it becomes. Like
it just doesn't make anything. It's

637
00:56:17.360 --> 00:56:23.000
a Midt, it's a mid Et, and it just in three weeks,

638
00:56:23.119 --> 00:56:28.119
I will forget that this episode exists
yet again. Cool cool, cool,

639
00:56:28.119 --> 00:56:34.559
cool cool cool cool. Uh yeah. Well, also there is a point

640
00:56:34.599 --> 00:56:38.960
too where they're going so fast to
chase it, and Scotty's like, if

641
00:56:38.960 --> 00:56:43.920
we keep this up, we'll blow
up. And I'm like that sounds like

642
00:56:43.960 --> 00:56:46.000
a real threat, like they are
not going to be able to sustain this,

643
00:56:46.159 --> 00:56:50.400
and then Kirk literally has them go
faster and then nothing bad happens.

644
00:56:50.400 --> 00:56:52.840
So I was just like, I
don't think that's how this works. I

645
00:56:52.880 --> 00:56:57.960
think if the chief engineer says you're
about to blow up, you'll blow up.

646
00:56:58.559 --> 00:57:01.159
Yeah. But anyway, I don't
fault the cloud for being a cool

647
00:57:01.239 --> 00:57:07.960
vehicle, a cool ship in its
own right. Sweet. Okay, what

648
00:57:08.000 --> 00:57:14.119
about Tim ship ships? What about
Tim six ships? I'm gonna ship Garavic

649
00:57:14.199 --> 00:57:19.280
and Chapel. Interesting he called her
Christine, and I couldn't tell if I

650
00:57:19.400 --> 00:57:22.079
was like okay with that or not
I was like, are you respect are

651
00:57:22.079 --> 00:57:28.480
you not respecting authority? Or are
you just close to her? Uh?

652
00:57:28.480 --> 00:57:32.719
And here's why, because whenever I'm
feeling shame, whenever I'm feeling sad,

653
00:57:32.760 --> 00:57:38.679
I want a girl in a nurse
mini skirt to be like doctors orders,

654
00:57:39.360 --> 00:57:44.239
you have to eat, and I'd
just be like, no, no,

655
00:57:44.280 --> 00:57:49.519
I hate I hate myself. I
hate myself towards travel is just like you

656
00:57:49.519 --> 00:57:57.719
don't understand presents a fake set of
orders, and then it's like you simpleton,

657
00:57:59.159 --> 00:58:05.000
you up, you child, these
are the doctor's orders. If you

658
00:58:05.039 --> 00:58:12.559
do not comply, you will be
in violation of Starfleet regulation. So eat

659
00:58:12.599 --> 00:58:19.800
that soup, you little bad boy, A little bad boy. Yeah,

660
00:58:20.239 --> 00:58:28.800
she's a so I it's a real
good like Kink unlocked here. I liked

661
00:58:28.840 --> 00:58:31.199
how forceful she was with them.
I'm with you, it's a good one.

662
00:58:31.320 --> 00:58:35.239
What is interesting is that Chapel was
originally not in the script, but

663
00:58:35.400 --> 00:58:37.639
roden Berry was like, put a
chapel scene in there, put a chapel

664
00:58:37.639 --> 00:58:44.840
on there. And also originally Garrevic
was supposed to be check off interesting,

665
00:58:45.119 --> 00:58:49.000
which I think is better, but
then roden Berry was like, nah,

666
00:58:49.079 --> 00:58:52.760
you go with Garavic Okay. I
think that would have been a lot stronger

667
00:58:52.800 --> 00:58:57.159
if it was check Off or anyone
else in the crew. I think so

668
00:58:57.280 --> 00:59:00.320
too, Like, I mean,
pulling into a random dube we'd never seen

669
00:59:00.360 --> 00:59:05.519
before is fine, but it's not
incredibly emotionally compelling. No, imagine if

670
00:59:05.559 --> 00:59:10.440
it was Zulu. Yeah, Like
I think Chekhov would work because of his

671
00:59:10.639 --> 00:59:14.559
age. Yeah, and the whole
point being that, it's like, it

672
00:59:14.599 --> 00:59:16.280
does make more sense with Chekhov because
he's so young. But I just want

673
00:59:16.320 --> 00:59:20.880
to look, Chekhov's got gotten a
lot to do this season compared to right,

674
00:59:21.639 --> 00:59:27.000
literally anyone else except for R three. Yeah, could have been a

675
00:59:27.039 --> 00:59:30.920
horror. Should have been a horror. It's always a horror. She should

676
00:59:30.960 --> 00:59:40.199
get so much more to do all
the fucking time. My ship is uh,

677
00:59:40.920 --> 00:59:44.639
the is you know what? You
know who it is? It's fucking

678
00:59:44.800 --> 00:59:50.440
erga. Here we go the uh
the dou Lac King was his name again?

679
00:59:50.519 --> 00:59:54.360
Gorniche? Gorniche? Have they been
named as a ship before. I'm

680
00:59:54.400 --> 01:00:00.079
looking at the spreadsheet. I'm not
seeing anything on the spreadsheet, Okay,

681
01:00:00.719 --> 01:00:06.000
because listen, I'm not I'm not. I'm not a proponent, which is

682
01:00:06.039 --> 01:00:09.239
crazy because I feel like we would
have should be, but I'm not seeing

683
01:00:09.280 --> 01:00:14.440
it on the spreadsheet. Here's here's
the thing about them. Whatever they seem

684
01:00:14.519 --> 01:00:17.519
to have seems to work for them. Yeah, he wants to make her

685
01:00:17.599 --> 01:00:23.280
happy. She wants to be happy. She likes his power, he likes

686
01:00:23.280 --> 01:00:30.440
her tacky bathing suit. I'm into
it. A dynamic is good for them,

687
01:00:30.440 --> 01:00:35.880
for them, it's great. He's
got a battle boat, a battleship,

688
01:00:36.320 --> 01:00:40.559
and it's her boatsy Wotzi, and
I fucking love that. Interesting that

689
01:00:40.599 --> 01:00:45.800
you picked the cloud versus their boty
Wotzy. I know I thought about that,

690
01:00:45.000 --> 01:00:47.280
but you didn't. Also want to
know, but I didn't. I

691
01:00:47.320 --> 01:00:54.440
didn't. He destroyed their boatsy Wotzy
with his own anger and need for revenge.

692
01:00:54.719 --> 01:01:01.760
Wow, look at how that happens
sometimes. Cool Well, speaking of

693
01:01:01.800 --> 01:01:07.320
anita for revenge, perhaps it is
time for Asking to inflict some revenge of

694
01:01:07.400 --> 01:01:12.599
their own. By ranking. This
week, we're getting to the central premise

695
01:01:12.599 --> 01:01:15.199
of this podcast, which is which
is better Star Trekers is Star Wars,

696
01:01:15.320 --> 01:01:20.360
And once again the episodes are Obsession
from Star Trek the original series versus Proud

697
01:01:20.360 --> 01:01:25.840
Beaten in Boga's rival from Star Wars
Ewoks Aspen. I would love for you

698
01:01:25.920 --> 01:01:30.039
to go first. Yeah, this
is so funny. This was not what

699
01:01:30.079 --> 01:01:34.960
I originally thought. And now after
you've convinced me, I've now shifted.

700
01:01:35.639 --> 01:01:40.000
I'm going to give Proud Beaten and
Boga's Rival a seven point one. You

701
01:01:40.119 --> 01:01:43.840
do love to see it. I
do love to see it. I do

702
01:01:43.920 --> 01:01:47.920
I like it. I'm gonna get
this one to six point eight, pretty

703
01:01:47.920 --> 01:01:53.400
close, pretty close, pretty close. These are some strong apps this week.

704
01:01:54.039 --> 01:01:58.280
Yep, that comes to a cumulative
total of six point nine to five,

705
01:01:58.360 --> 01:02:02.920
but it could still be anyone game. As we shift over to Obsession,

706
01:02:04.719 --> 01:02:15.199
Aspen five point eight, five point
eight interesting, I'm gonna go five

707
01:02:15.199 --> 01:02:20.480
point nine. As I've said,
I think the back half of this episode

708
01:02:20.519 --> 01:02:27.960
is far stronger than the beginning of
this episode, but also this episode is

709
01:02:28.039 --> 01:02:30.719
largely forgettable in all the themes that
are being tackled in this episode have been

710
01:02:30.760 --> 01:02:38.679
done better elsewhere within Star Trek,
which means accumulative total of five point eight

711
01:02:38.719 --> 01:02:44.199
five per Obsession versus probably be in
A Baga's Rival and a robust six point

712
01:02:44.320 --> 01:02:46.920
nine to five, which means,
Aspen, put on your winner's ground because

713
01:02:46.960 --> 01:02:52.400
Star Wars wins the week, My
winner's ground is a Dave Felony hat,

714
01:02:55.199 --> 01:03:02.679
just like flip it onto my head. Speaking of flipping it on the head,

715
01:03:04.519 --> 01:03:09.400
listeners are flipping out for our Patreon
content. Oh my god, No,

716
01:03:09.519 --> 01:03:13.800
that's good. That's good. Patreon
dot com slash trek Wars Pod,

717
01:03:13.840 --> 01:03:20.559
where you can listen to early episodes
extended episodes. This week our Patreon,

718
01:03:20.639 --> 01:03:25.400
we've tackled the Scott Pilgrim anime and
a little bit about the Doctor Who's Special

719
01:03:25.559 --> 01:03:29.960
and the brand new Doctor. So, if you haven't signed up, already

720
01:03:29.960 --> 01:03:34.239
signed up Patreon dot com slash trek
Wars Pod on YouTube could join the fine

721
01:03:34.280 --> 01:03:37.519
auspices of fine folks such as Heidi
Rogers, Tim Bodissa, Thank you so

722
01:03:37.559 --> 01:03:43.480
much for a patronage. We also
have Emily Brice Love, Kevin Miller,

723
01:03:43.559 --> 01:03:46.159
Thank you, Mark Vibbert, Ryan
Hill, and lastly, but certainly not

724
01:03:46.280 --> 01:03:52.239
leastly, Jolty Partner. We love
you. Oh looks like we've got like

725
01:03:52.519 --> 01:03:58.199
from Mark Vibber on our butt Talk
with Kenny episode. Thank you so much.

726
01:03:59.239 --> 01:04:00.960
We got four lines thanks from Mark. Thank you so much for liking

727
01:04:01.000 --> 01:04:06.239
stuff on our Patreon. We love
you, body and if you want to

728
01:04:06.280 --> 01:04:11.000
communicate some of that love to us, elsewhere, send us an email truck

729
01:04:11.039 --> 01:04:15.400
Warspod dot gmail dot com. Uh, if you want to make it a

730
01:04:15.440 --> 01:04:18.559
little bit more public, hop over
to our website truck warspod dot com.

731
01:04:18.800 --> 01:04:21.639
Click on the reviews tab. You
will be directed to the podcast of your

732
01:04:21.679 --> 01:04:26.119
choice. Leave us for review,
leave us a rating, or eager to

733
01:04:26.159 --> 01:04:30.840
hear any feedback from you, any
suggestions. If you want to hear any

734
01:04:30.840 --> 01:04:34.079
sound effects in mixing in on the
soundboard, let me know. I'll upload

735
01:04:34.159 --> 01:04:39.800
them. I'll put anything here you
know within reason. Don't be racist or

736
01:04:39.960 --> 01:04:46.159
sexist me, don't just listen,
don't be a piece of shit. Don't

737
01:04:46.199 --> 01:04:51.880
do it. You know better,
you know better, You're better than that,

738
01:04:51.960 --> 01:04:56.760
and there will be consequences if not. And if you disagree with this

739
01:04:57.280 --> 01:05:01.119
approach to moderated free speech, why
don't you just yell at us about it

740
01:05:01.159 --> 01:05:08.320
on social media on Instagram dot com
or blue Sky both handles at track wars

741
01:05:08.360 --> 01:05:12.440
Pod Aspen. Anything else that we
need to say, anything that you need

742
01:05:12.480 --> 01:05:15.119
to plug that is upcoming. No, I'm thinking what I'll do with the

743
01:05:15.159 --> 01:05:19.440
bread is I'll bake it anyway,
and it won't be like a real hola,

744
01:05:19.559 --> 01:05:21.599
but at least it will still be
bread. And I don't want to

745
01:05:21.599 --> 01:05:25.960
waste that flower, you know,
so I think I'll bake it and then

746
01:05:25.960 --> 01:05:29.159
I'll just go buy a Holla.
Well, Aspen, when I'm with you,

747
01:05:29.239 --> 01:05:32.960
my heart is anything but holla.
In fact, it's full, okay,

748
01:05:33.000 --> 01:05:39.599
fantastic because I love you so tremendously. I love you too. One

749
01:05:39.639 --> 01:05:48.360
more time. Oh, let's gleave
audience. We love you. May the

750
01:05:48.400 --> 01:05:50.840
Force be with you and live along
and prosper