Star Wars: Episode I - Phantom Menace vs. Patterns of Force

WEBVTT

1
00:00:26.640 --> 00:00:31.320
Welcome to the Trek Wars Podcast,
the Internet's primary source for all of the

2
00:00:31.320 --> 00:00:34.679
things that are related to Star Trek, Star Wars, and everything in between.

3
00:00:35.000 --> 00:00:38.600
As we go through both franchises in
chronological order to try and answer which

4
00:00:38.640 --> 00:00:42.320
one is best Star Trek or Star
Wars. I am Kenny Madison at the

5
00:00:42.320 --> 00:00:46.679
Star Trek contingent with me as we're
always as the co host with the moostis

6
00:00:46.719 --> 00:00:57.079
I the old friend Aspen. I
can't do this bit with Michael looking at

7
00:00:57.119 --> 00:01:00.880
me. I feel like I have
to not do this. It's me asked

8
00:01:00.880 --> 00:01:07.799
my webster. I'm the Star Wars
contingent. He ruins my bait. But

9
00:01:08.959 --> 00:01:15.040
Michael certainly won't ruin the discussion.
As today we have invited who I think

10
00:01:15.959 --> 00:01:19.560
he is known around our community as
the Arbiter because he often comes in and

11
00:01:19.599 --> 00:01:25.840
just arbits. Please everyone, Welcome
to the podcast. Michael, Joel,

12
00:01:27.879 --> 00:01:37.319
that's our audience for you. Wait, Michael, is your middle name Kuame?

13
00:01:37.959 --> 00:01:42.000
That's right, my middle name is
Kuame. I feel deeply weird about

14
00:01:42.000 --> 00:01:46.000
this. It's like when you know
someone really, really well and then you

15
00:01:46.040 --> 00:01:49.799
find out that their middle name is
Kuame and you didn't know. That's how

16
00:01:49.879 --> 00:01:53.159
I feel right now, it's like
one of those things. Well, Michael,

17
00:01:53.599 --> 00:02:00.439
speaking of tainting pre existing systems.
Today we are covering Star Wars episode

18
00:02:00.480 --> 00:02:05.439
one of the Menace nail it you
oooh you sexy, I know, versus

19
00:02:06.040 --> 00:02:08.639
Patterns of Force. The Star Wars
episode won the Phantom Menace of course,

20
00:02:08.680 --> 00:02:14.159
being from Star Wars, and Patterns
of Force being from season two. Uh,

21
00:02:14.280 --> 00:02:16.960
Star Trek the original. We just
have to be really clear. He

22
00:02:17.000 --> 00:02:21.319
has to do things like that because
I would then talk for ten minutes about

23
00:02:21.360 --> 00:02:23.639
middle names. I'm not gonna you
know, that's great. I'm not going

24
00:02:23.719 --> 00:02:27.080
to say anything else about it.
I think my middle name is great.

25
00:02:27.199 --> 00:02:30.319
I love that about my middle name
in this way, in this fashion,

26
00:02:30.360 --> 00:02:35.319
Tody, that feels like exciting,
and I'm happy to talk about my middle

27
00:02:35.360 --> 00:02:38.800
name a little bit more if whenever, however, we're ready to do it.

28
00:02:38.840 --> 00:02:40.719
Yeah, it's going to be on
this podcast until right now, and

29
00:02:40.719 --> 00:02:46.120
so Kenny can find a way to
segue again away from it to Kenny's taking

30
00:02:46.159 --> 00:02:52.400
notes right now speaking of segue.
Patterns of Force was first aired February sixteenth,

31
00:02:52.439 --> 00:02:59.080
nineteen sixty eight. Director Vincent mcavidian, writer John Merrit Lucas presiding producer

32
00:02:59.479 --> 00:03:02.680
of the second half of season two
of Star Trek, and the plot synopsis

33
00:03:04.159 --> 00:03:07.919
goes from an NBC press release.
It's January nineteen, nineteen sixty eight.

34
00:03:07.360 --> 00:03:12.120
Captain Kirk and mister Spock are captured
on a warlike planet with a Nazi type

35
00:03:12.199 --> 00:03:16.360
regime while searching for a cultural observer
from whom nothing had been heard for five

36
00:03:16.439 --> 00:03:22.240
years. In Patterns of Force on
NBC Television Network Star Trek Color cast of

37
00:03:22.280 --> 00:03:24.479
Friday, February sixteenth, I would
have just called it a Star Trek cast.

38
00:03:27.560 --> 00:03:30.919
Kirk and Spock are imprisoned and tortured
by the regime which rules the planet

39
00:03:31.039 --> 00:03:36.400
Echos, and learned that their captors
are bent on eliminating immigrants from the planet

40
00:03:36.520 --> 00:03:39.960
Xeon. Isaac, also a prisoner, helps them escape to the Xeon underground.

41
00:03:40.000 --> 00:03:45.280
Assisted by Daris and later by ineg
They find John Gill, the missing

42
00:03:45.319 --> 00:03:49.759
observer, who was being used by
a deputy Purier Melicon as a front for

43
00:03:49.800 --> 00:03:54.520
a wholesale extermination of the peaceful people. Is it a day? Okay?

44
00:03:54.520 --> 00:03:57.919
Can I dive right in right away? No? I gotta do Star War.

45
00:03:58.000 --> 00:04:00.159
No, no, no, no, no no. We still got

46
00:04:00.199 --> 00:04:01.439
more preamble to do. That's fine, That's what I got, but I

47
00:04:01.840 --> 00:04:09.319
really appreciate it. I have to
also introduce this Star Wars episode one,

48
00:04:09.360 --> 00:04:15.000
the Phantom Menace, if folks are
not aware, released May nineteenth, nineteen

49
00:04:15.039 --> 00:04:19.759
ninety nine, which it had to
be released or else. Do you remember.

50
00:04:19.839 --> 00:04:24.360
I was watching that behind the scenes
Phantom Menace making making video and they

51
00:04:24.360 --> 00:04:29.519
were like, this will be released
in May ninety nine or nothing, So

52
00:04:30.040 --> 00:04:32.639
that is it. Of course,
it is written and directed by one George

53
00:04:32.680 --> 00:04:44.160
Lucas A tour two excuse me,
are dismay as? Wow tour, I'm

54
00:04:44.160 --> 00:04:50.240
gonna I'm gonna do. I found
another Roger Ebert you outstanding as And I

55
00:04:50.279 --> 00:04:55.319
think this is interesting because I read
a little bit of his review last time

56
00:04:55.639 --> 00:05:00.439
about Revenge, Return of the Jedi. The new editions is what we're doing?

57
00:05:01.160 --> 00:05:04.360
Oh yes, and he had like
reflected because at the time it was

58
00:05:04.439 --> 00:05:08.560
like, we know that these new
movies are to come, so I thought

59
00:05:08.560 --> 00:05:12.319
it'd be interesting what does he think
of this new movie to come? So

60
00:05:12.439 --> 00:05:15.079
I'm going to read the first paragraph
in the last paragraph because again I feel

61
00:05:15.079 --> 00:05:17.319
like it captures it. If it
were the first Star Wars movie, the

62
00:05:17.360 --> 00:05:20.959
Phantom Menace would be hailed as a
visionary breakthrough. But this is the fourth

63
00:05:21.040 --> 00:05:25.720
movie of the famous series, and
we think we know the territory. Many

64
00:05:25.800 --> 00:05:29.439
of the early reviews have been blase, paying lip service to the visuals and

65
00:05:29.519 --> 00:05:33.040
wondering why the characters aren't better developed. How quickly do we grow accustomed to

66
00:05:33.240 --> 00:05:39.120
wonders? I am reminded of the
Isaac Asimov story Nightfall, about the planet

67
00:05:39.199 --> 00:05:43.759
where the stars were visible only once
in a thousand years. So awesome was

68
00:05:43.839 --> 00:05:46.839
the site that it drove men mad. We who can see the stars every

69
00:05:46.920 --> 00:05:50.920
night glance up casually at the cosmos, and then quickly down again, searching

70
00:05:51.000 --> 00:05:56.160
for a dairy queen. It's like
one of the best first paragraphs I've ever

71
00:05:56.279 --> 00:05:59.480
read. So I'm gonna read the
last paragraph now, which is as surely

72
00:05:59.480 --> 00:06:02.600
as Anakin skywalker points the way into
a future of Star Wars. So does

73
00:06:02.639 --> 00:06:06.199
the Phantom Menace raise the curtain on
this new freedom for filmmakers. And it's

74
00:06:06.240 --> 00:06:10.560
a lot of fun. The film
has correctly given the PG rating. It's

75
00:06:10.600 --> 00:06:13.800
suitable for younger viewers. It doesn't
depend on violence for its effects. As

76
00:06:13.920 --> 00:06:16.279
for the bad rap about the characters, Hey, I've seen space operas that

77
00:06:16.360 --> 00:06:20.839
put their emphasis on human personalities and
relationships. They're called Star Trek movies.

78
00:06:21.560 --> 00:06:26.879
Give me transparent underwater cities and vast
hollows, and it's a reel spheares any

79
00:06:27.000 --> 00:06:32.120
day. I mean, can I
say something now? Yes, you can

80
00:06:32.160 --> 00:06:35.800
say whatever you want to say.
Here's what I'll say. It sounds like

81
00:06:35.920 --> 00:06:41.319
we did it. We nailed it. Roger Ebert nailed the whole thing well.

82
00:06:43.759 --> 00:06:47.519
Roderi Ebert also gazed with Nicholas Cage
film knowing for stars that will never

83
00:06:47.680 --> 00:06:51.879
ever, that will never ever leave
my brain. So I do want to

84
00:06:51.879 --> 00:06:55.920
say something really quick, please,
Michael, Okay about the Star Trek thing.

85
00:06:56.279 --> 00:07:00.879
Yeah, the thing considering that the
I never heard the synopsis until this

86
00:07:01.000 --> 00:07:08.519
moment, considering that the guy who
was lost, John Gilles, was lost

87
00:07:09.079 --> 00:07:15.199
five years prior to this episode.
Yes, that means that they have not

88
00:07:15.480 --> 00:07:18.160
gone where no man has gone before. They do that all the time,

89
00:07:18.199 --> 00:07:24.839
Michael, Michael, one week,
They just Michael, they just want one

90
00:07:24.879 --> 00:07:28.160
week. They would just like went
to a starfleet space station, a load

91
00:07:28.160 --> 00:07:30.720
of places all the time. It
feels like, guys, it feels like

92
00:07:30.839 --> 00:07:34.560
that guy has gone where no man
has gone before. They chimed more John

93
00:07:34.639 --> 00:07:42.480
Gill is pretty great. Yeah,
yeah they okay, yeah, also saying

94
00:07:42.560 --> 00:07:46.879
that John gil has good ideas,
that's great. Yeah, down, that's

95
00:07:46.959 --> 00:07:53.600
recorded. We have that forever.
It's the other guy, Malacan. Well,

96
00:07:53.759 --> 00:07:57.240
it is kind of wild. Five
years Actually didn't register that either until

97
00:07:57.279 --> 00:07:59.839
you said that, Like, five
years is not a lot of time.

98
00:08:00.240 --> 00:08:03.639
I mean, Hitler himself had the
vastness of between like World War One to

99
00:08:03.680 --> 00:08:11.920
World War Two to build up that
kind of populist frenzy. Five years anyway,

100
00:08:13.680 --> 00:08:16.160
speaking of the vastness infinity of time, I think it only fair to

101
00:08:16.639 --> 00:08:22.120
ask our arbiter here, what is
your experience with both franchises? Did you

102
00:08:22.160 --> 00:08:24.319
grow up with Star Trek? Did
you grow up with Star Wars? And

103
00:08:24.839 --> 00:08:30.920
what was your experience in watching Phantom
Menace? Excellent questions all around, sir.

104
00:08:31.199 --> 00:08:33.360
What as an arbiter, I will
say, hey, you are not

105
00:08:33.519 --> 00:08:39.720
just like the arbiter and arbor great
town by the way, hope. Do

106
00:08:39.759 --> 00:08:46.200
you have any patreons there? Patreons? So big quick background obviously, so

107
00:08:46.279 --> 00:08:48.879
Star Wars was always the number one. I grew up on that. I

108
00:08:50.000 --> 00:08:54.000
am forty years old, so I
was born in nineteen hundred and eighty three.

109
00:08:54.080 --> 00:09:03.440
Years, and in that year the
Year of Our Lord Revenge slash Return

110
00:09:03.480 --> 00:09:09.080
of the Jedi was released. So
I hadn't seen any of them until what

111
00:09:09.320 --> 00:09:11.000
like eighty eight, eighty nine something
like that. There was some replays of

112
00:09:11.080 --> 00:09:15.720
it and I was all in.
I was all in by then and loved

113
00:09:15.759 --> 00:09:20.679
it. And then you know,
when the special editions came out, that

114
00:09:20.840 --> 00:09:24.000
became like the real one for me, because I was what thirteen fourteen,

115
00:09:24.360 --> 00:09:30.159
and then I didn't get into Star
Trek until here's a weird story about Star

116
00:09:30.200 --> 00:09:39.960
Trek. I started watching Star Trek
Voyager on TNT Baby or TBS, TNN.

117
00:09:41.399 --> 00:09:45.559
It was all right, cool?
Is that true? I don't know.

118
00:09:45.879 --> 00:09:50.360
Were you there, Canny? You
look like you upset? Yeah,

119
00:09:50.519 --> 00:09:54.080
you're watching it on because I remember
that. I remember when Star Trek got

120
00:09:54.159 --> 00:10:00.480
migrated over to TNN and oh held
over? Could I say that very right

121
00:10:00.559 --> 00:10:03.000
now? Yeah? I just know
that it wouldn't be on TNT because it's

122
00:10:03.039 --> 00:10:07.360
a Warner Brothers property. I'm pretty
sure that TNN and Spike TV were owned

123
00:10:07.399 --> 00:10:11.840
by Viacom. Oh, it might
have been a Viacom. Maybe it was

124
00:10:11.960 --> 00:10:16.159
MTV. It wasn't. Is MTV
owned by Viacom? Yes, Oh,

125
00:10:16.320 --> 00:10:20.600
so it must have been on MTV
that I was watching it on MTV and

126
00:10:20.679 --> 00:10:24.559
then I was like in love with
it. I would come home from college

127
00:10:24.960 --> 00:10:30.720
from university pop that on and watch
Star Trek Warriors. I was like,

128
00:10:30.879 --> 00:10:35.559
what's all this other stuff? And
I went back and started watching The Next

129
00:10:35.600 --> 00:10:43.639
Generation and DS nine. Yes,
and that's it. Yes, I never

130
00:10:43.720 --> 00:10:48.200
watched the original series. Oh,
I was standing, So I'm have you

131
00:10:48.279 --> 00:10:52.960
gotten around watching the original series?
Is this this is the first time you've

132
00:10:54.039 --> 00:10:58.879
ever watched the original series? Michael? I don't of an episode? What

133
00:10:58.000 --> 00:11:03.159
a weird episode. It's great,
it's great. I watched all the movies,

134
00:11:03.519 --> 00:11:07.080
so I know all the players,
I know all of the backstory essentially.

135
00:11:07.440 --> 00:11:13.559
But this was great because the movies
obviously are nothing like the television series.

136
00:11:13.720 --> 00:11:18.200
Well, well here's what I mean. Here's what I mean. Uh

137
00:11:20.120 --> 00:11:24.080
chunking thirty five minutes into it,
it just makes it like this very It's

138
00:11:24.120 --> 00:11:28.639
a time capsule obviously, and it's
so interesting to watch. That was really

139
00:11:28.679 --> 00:11:31.000
my biggest takeaway when I was watching
this, Like the first thing, I

140
00:11:31.080 --> 00:11:35.240
was like, oh, look at
this like weird you know, uh,

141
00:11:35.000 --> 00:11:41.000
set very clearly like on sets in
like a lot somewhere thing that was happening,

142
00:11:41.200 --> 00:11:45.440
So it was really fun to watch
that. But then there were some

143
00:11:45.559 --> 00:11:48.679
moments of real like kind of cool, like beautiful like shots and stuff,

144
00:11:48.720 --> 00:11:52.559
So I was really fun. I
thought it was really it was really interesting

145
00:11:52.600 --> 00:11:56.159
and different because to me, like
TNG is like the State is like the

146
00:11:56.360 --> 00:12:01.279
metric that All Star Trek should be
held against. So this was fun to

147
00:12:01.360 --> 00:12:03.240
go back and see this and see
where some of it kind of Mars and

148
00:12:03.279 --> 00:12:07.519
stuff. So that is my background. I love this, I love this.

149
00:12:07.879 --> 00:12:09.200
I love this. I want to
hear more. I want to hear

150
00:12:09.240 --> 00:12:13.480
more. I just love tell you
more. I just oh, I just

151
00:12:13.600 --> 00:12:18.000
this explains why you had so many
notes because, like we've talked before about

152
00:12:18.039 --> 00:12:22.879
this that, yeah, when you're
watching something, especially when we're watching Ewoks

153
00:12:22.919 --> 00:12:26.759
and we were watching Droids and watching
original series, you start to watch a

154
00:12:26.799 --> 00:12:28.679
lot of it and it's like it
teaches you how to watch it. So

155
00:12:30.320 --> 00:12:35.320
if you are used to it and
you're like here I am, I've been

156
00:12:35.000 --> 00:12:39.679
like I know the vibes. I
know like the way it's kind of flowing.

157
00:12:39.759 --> 00:12:43.360
Like I'll watch episodes that someone else
might watch and be like oh god,

158
00:12:43.559 --> 00:12:46.840
and I'm like look at this work
of art, like kind of like,

159
00:12:48.200 --> 00:12:52.279
look at what it's saying, and
it's so it's just interesting to hear

160
00:12:52.399 --> 00:12:54.519
a first impression. No, totally, I agree with you because I've seen

161
00:12:56.120 --> 00:13:00.360
the any Star Wars property, aside
from like a few of those like the

162
00:13:00.440 --> 00:13:03.360
eu Wok stuff, I've seen everything
multiple times, all of it, the

163
00:13:03.399 --> 00:13:07.559
glow everything. This is the one
thing I've never seen and I did feel

164
00:13:07.600 --> 00:13:11.919
that way. I watched it with
like a sense of like a little bit

165
00:13:11.000 --> 00:13:15.679
more green. Awe. I was
like, oh, this is cool or

166
00:13:15.799 --> 00:13:20.240
weird or silly or terrible, and
I didn't I know that the Phantom Menace

167
00:13:20.279 --> 00:13:24.960
we'll talk about in a second is
terrible, and so, uh, this

168
00:13:26.240 --> 00:13:28.960
was this was like a new surprise, which is great and I made me

169
00:13:28.200 --> 00:13:33.639
very happy to watch. Oh that's
great. Can we talk about how skinny

170
00:13:33.679 --> 00:13:39.279
Spock is. Yeah, he's a
real skinny boy. Yeah yeah. I

171
00:13:39.320 --> 00:13:43.360
think the first thing that we should
talk about is them shirtless. Oh yeah,

172
00:13:43.519 --> 00:13:48.080
thank you. Okay, so they're
shirtless for the entirety of like the

173
00:13:48.200 --> 00:13:54.200
first act of this show episode and
uh, first off shot shot, what

174
00:13:54.320 --> 00:13:58.799
are we gonna call him? Chat
chat baby? Yeah, the Chat's chatster.

175
00:14:00.120 --> 00:14:05.679
The shaster, the shatter, what
what a hotty? Will I get

176
00:14:05.720 --> 00:14:11.440
it? Thank you? Thank you
so much? Like at first he like

177
00:14:11.519 --> 00:14:13.919
as the person pisses me off,
but I just I tell Kenny, I'm

178
00:14:13.960 --> 00:14:15.799
like, oh my god, Michael, thank you so much for this.

179
00:14:16.480 --> 00:14:18.240
I feel like I'm telling him.
The more I watch him, more attracted

180
00:14:18.279 --> 00:14:24.840
to him. My cats, he's
a ten. Shatner creates the archetype for

181
00:14:24.440 --> 00:14:31.159
what a captain on TV is.
Oh yeah, also, oh captain,

182
00:14:31.279 --> 00:14:35.000
my captain. Uh, it's just
so hot. He's hot, Michael,

183
00:14:35.279 --> 00:14:37.600
get off, get off that desk, stop it, you're gonna fall.

184
00:14:37.720 --> 00:14:43.519
Stop what He's like always like fuck, oh fuck that hood's a little bit.

185
00:14:43.559 --> 00:14:48.440
Spock's so great. It's like,
Yo, this is a hotty to

186
00:14:48.639 --> 00:14:54.519
body. He's got red paint all
over him back because let's keep it real.

187
00:14:54.799 --> 00:15:00.840
That's not a real scar, that's
real blood. Can we do That's

188
00:15:00.879 --> 00:15:03.799
so that's all right, So we'll
talk about his shirtlessness. Can we can

189
00:15:03.840 --> 00:15:05.960
we talk about like the production value
of this in a minute? Yes?

190
00:15:07.159 --> 00:15:09.000
And also can I just tell you
really, quicks, I don't know if

191
00:15:09.000 --> 00:15:11.120
you know this, but Kenny taught
me this. Sorry, Kenny's just like

192
00:15:11.200 --> 00:15:15.240
I'm trying to I'm trying to give
to you the gifts, the gifts Kenny

193
00:15:15.320 --> 00:15:20.879
has given me. It's very interesting
that this episode it's about Nazis literal Nazis.

194
00:15:20.279 --> 00:15:24.159
Yeah, tell me for I write
on this, Kenny. Both Shatner

195
00:15:24.200 --> 00:15:28.840
and Nimoy are Jewish, yes,
and Shatner is from Canada, but both

196
00:15:28.879 --> 00:15:31.080
of them are Jewish, which I
think is it is very interesting to have

197
00:15:31.240 --> 00:15:37.240
this sort of like like Shatner as
a Jewish man and like being this like

198
00:15:37.440 --> 00:15:43.639
he is like the archetype of like
what is beautiful and fabulous but coded as

199
00:15:43.799 --> 00:15:50.519
like a red lighted American man.
He is a Jewish Canadian man. Then

200
00:15:50.000 --> 00:15:56.279
we have ascribed with That's why this
motherfucker can act. Yeah, yeah,

201
00:15:56.759 --> 00:16:00.679
I mean, come on the Canadian
ness. Didn't even know. I said,

202
00:16:00.759 --> 00:16:07.279
Oh, he's from San Francisco.
That's where Starfleep's uh academy is every

203
00:16:07.320 --> 00:16:11.200
day. Also, my favorite thing
is this is why you know Letter Nimoy

204
00:16:11.399 --> 00:16:18.320
is Jewish. There's that moment when
he's asked to take the helmet off in

205
00:16:18.399 --> 00:16:22.720
there. It's in the early part
of the episode, and the sass that

206
00:16:22.879 --> 00:16:27.600
he gives as he takes that helmet
off was as if he was looking at

207
00:16:27.759 --> 00:16:34.279
Gerbel's face and said you lost,
motherfucker, and it was so awesome,

208
00:16:34.360 --> 00:16:38.519
Like I wish you could screenshot at
Kenny go back if you can, and

209
00:16:38.639 --> 00:16:42.360
on Instagram, I want you to
post the shot. Literally, it's like

210
00:16:42.399 --> 00:16:45.960
a it's like a look that he
gives, right does he take the first

211
00:16:45.000 --> 00:16:48.519
time he takes his helmet off,
and they're like, I did to see

212
00:16:48.559 --> 00:16:51.360
your ears or I neither whatever they
do say his ears, I need to

213
00:16:51.360 --> 00:16:56.279
see your head, take off your
helmet and this sass. Oh I wrote

214
00:16:56.279 --> 00:16:59.360
it. I was like, I
literally wrote Nimoy's face. What he's removing

215
00:16:59.399 --> 00:17:03.079
his helmet that first time is like
fuck you bish, I will eat you.

216
00:17:04.480 --> 00:17:11.160
I will eat you. It was
great. I mean, there's there's

217
00:17:11.240 --> 00:17:17.359
there's also the parallels of him being
like Spock as like Vulcans as like demon

218
00:17:17.640 --> 00:17:23.039
esque and like and Jewish folks being
demonized literally like seen as like devils and

219
00:17:23.119 --> 00:17:30.079
demons some good and obviously the Vulcan
salute is a Jewish symbol, right and

220
00:17:30.200 --> 00:17:36.400
all that. So obviously all of
those things are very much connected to Leonards

221
00:17:36.480 --> 00:17:38.920
past, which is awesome. Yeah
take that, Kenny, you suck.

222
00:17:40.759 --> 00:17:45.519
I agree. In the building.
Y'all. You did it. You did

223
00:17:45.559 --> 00:17:53.759
it. I'll actually clap for you. You talked about your experience with Star

224
00:17:53.839 --> 00:17:57.000
Trek, but Michael and you talked
about your experience with Star Wars. What's

225
00:17:57.039 --> 00:18:03.319
your experience with Star Wars Episode one, the Phantom Menace. Oh so I

226
00:18:04.160 --> 00:18:11.119
am one of those unfortunate souls that
was there opening night. Oh it was

227
00:18:11.480 --> 00:18:14.559
my birthday, I was. That's
pretty great. I wish that I was

228
00:18:14.599 --> 00:18:18.920
there on opening night. Okay,
I say unfortunate because I did leave disappointed.

229
00:18:19.039 --> 00:18:23.960
I did that. I left with
the true high hopes of a person

230
00:18:26.279 --> 00:18:30.440
who had bought into the fandom and
who had probably over hyped it like everybody

231
00:18:30.480 --> 00:18:33.799
else did. I probably I wouldn't
be surprised if if there's a clip somewhere

232
00:18:33.839 --> 00:18:37.720
of me, like, yeah,
I love I love Star Wars on some

233
00:18:37.920 --> 00:18:41.759
like New Channel. I've seen those
clips and it's always so sad to see

234
00:18:41.799 --> 00:18:45.519
them go in and then leave.
There's the there's the clip in the episode

235
00:18:45.559 --> 00:18:49.759
one documentary where they finally opened the
line and the two fanboys at the front

236
00:18:49.799 --> 00:18:56.640
of the line are like and they're
like, there's no way could be back,

237
00:18:57.480 --> 00:19:00.119
Like, yeah, it's it's a
it's one of those. But I

238
00:19:00.240 --> 00:19:03.839
was there. I was there.
I was probably what sixteen years old,

239
00:19:04.039 --> 00:19:11.160
seventeen years old Bill for me this
movie, and I went in with that

240
00:19:11.359 --> 00:19:15.640
same sadness that we all know and
we've all heard a million times when you

241
00:19:15.680 --> 00:19:18.480
go out of it, which is, you know, what is the Senate,

242
00:19:18.079 --> 00:19:23.200
what is the like all of these
like over talking people and conversations and

243
00:19:23.759 --> 00:19:30.759
why was there uh, you know, a you know bo Jangles Jamaican character

244
00:19:32.240 --> 00:19:37.319
that was there that I didn't understand, Kenny, And he's talking about George

245
00:19:37.440 --> 00:19:41.119
Binks. You're doing that, you're
doing the dog thing. No, that's

246
00:19:41.200 --> 00:19:45.799
not racist. He's a gungan.
Oh, that's right, that's right.

247
00:19:45.839 --> 00:19:52.799
That's right, that's right. He's
he's he can't be racist. Fictional aliens.

248
00:19:52.920 --> 00:19:55.880
Yeah, yeah, they're not.
Yeah, they're not Jamaican. It

249
00:19:55.920 --> 00:20:00.480
doesn't matter that Luke was was inspired
by the work of Stephen fetch It Network.

250
00:20:00.240 --> 00:20:04.160
You're creating jar Jar Binks. It
makes it so wrong, Kenny,

251
00:20:06.440 --> 00:20:11.160
just with your head, doesn't matter
that the Ewoks are truly the Viet Kong

252
00:20:11.359 --> 00:20:15.960
and that there's clearly liked everywhere the
little little, little, tiny, little

253
00:20:17.240 --> 00:20:21.640
furry animals with the Vietcong. That's
that's not weird at all. Uh No.

254
00:20:21.839 --> 00:20:25.359
So anyway, so I left that
movie and I was a little disappointed,

255
00:20:25.480 --> 00:20:30.440
But over time I did get to
a place where I liked it ish

256
00:20:30.640 --> 00:20:34.839
like, and I watched it a
bunch. I watched that one countless times,

257
00:20:34.960 --> 00:20:41.000
countless times, and I think I
got something out of it eventually.

258
00:20:41.920 --> 00:20:45.920
But upon rewatch now, which I'm
sure we'll talk about it all and away

259
00:20:45.920 --> 00:20:51.720
again all away, I don't know, as it happens when you play a

260
00:20:51.799 --> 00:20:55.960
drinking game and scream a lot.
Yes, So let's let's dig into this

261
00:20:56.119 --> 00:21:00.319
because I understand that y'all watched Phantom
Menace together, which is very exciting.

262
00:21:03.400 --> 00:21:08.319
As a co host, I'm interested
in the discourse that you both had while

263
00:21:08.400 --> 00:21:15.519
watching While watching this film, okay, I think it's just that it was

264
00:21:15.599 --> 00:21:19.440
just about specific pieces, like there
was a lot of like I think there's

265
00:21:19.480 --> 00:21:23.240
a lot of what could make this
film better, uh, and I have

266
00:21:23.359 --> 00:21:27.039
specific opinions. I don't actually even
think that I truly disagree too much.

267
00:21:29.039 --> 00:21:32.359
I think I just hear because okay, sorry, before we do this,

268
00:21:32.559 --> 00:21:36.000
you said something funny, you said, Michael, you said this movie was

269
00:21:36.079 --> 00:21:41.839
built for me and I think actually
this movie was built for me because and

270
00:21:41.960 --> 00:21:45.480
I mean this because I was thinking. I was thinking again while I was

271
00:21:45.799 --> 00:21:48.559
watching it, but also while I
was watching that behind the scenes little documentary

272
00:21:48.599 --> 00:21:52.160
thing about like the very idea of
casting such a young child and the way

273
00:21:52.200 --> 00:21:56.359
that they're focusing on the comedy of
it. I truly think it was literally

274
00:21:56.480 --> 00:22:00.880
built for a nine year old.
And that's what I was when I saw

275
00:22:00.920 --> 00:22:08.160
it. And I came out of
it like the Senate is bad? Wow

276
00:22:08.359 --> 00:22:12.920
that Trade Federation? Am I right? And I was talking politics al Gore

277
00:22:14.119 --> 00:22:18.279
and Dick Yeah. I was just
like, wow, this really says a

278
00:22:18.319 --> 00:22:22.920
lot about our own current syste nine
year yeah, yeah, no, but

279
00:22:25.279 --> 00:22:32.000
it is in my vote ten years. I mean that was the year before

280
00:22:32.119 --> 00:22:38.519
the two thousand election, right,
that was fun. I yeah, yeah,

281
00:22:38.680 --> 00:22:41.440
So I think it's actually built for
May. He's actually felt for me

282
00:22:42.920 --> 00:22:45.160
because you make a good point,
you make a great point, and we

283
00:22:45.240 --> 00:22:48.799
did talk about that a little bit. I think you're right. At the

284
00:22:48.920 --> 00:22:55.119
end of the day, the Star
Wars movies were are still fairy tales.

285
00:22:55.160 --> 00:22:57.119
I think, uh, it's like
Irvin Kershner, right, like he's the

286
00:22:59.119 --> 00:23:02.799
who's the director of the Empire strikes
Back. Hold on, I've actually told

287
00:23:02.839 --> 00:23:07.519
him I got him. He's actually
sitting right now. Hold on a second,

288
00:23:07.599 --> 00:23:10.960
let me pull him out. What
do you want me to get on

289
00:23:11.240 --> 00:23:15.519
microphone? Okay, so you had
said this, this is great. Oh

290
00:23:15.559 --> 00:23:19.839
I'm so excited. Me the director
of the Eyes of Laura Mars. And

291
00:23:22.240 --> 00:23:26.759
did you know that film was written
by a young John Carpenter, director of

292
00:23:27.039 --> 00:23:32.640
Ghosts of Mars. I think he
did a couple other things, but yeah,

293
00:23:33.079 --> 00:23:36.480
I'm not familiar. Oh that's great. You should check it out.

294
00:23:36.519 --> 00:23:38.240
It's great. He's got a couple
of on the i n dB. So

295
00:23:38.519 --> 00:23:41.039
anyway, So, Herry, so
here's a great thing you said this,

296
00:23:41.200 --> 00:23:45.200
which I love. Uh, in
the middle of making The Empire Strikes Back,

297
00:23:45.400 --> 00:23:51.599
I directed The Empire Strikes Back.
Yes, yes you did. Yeah?

298
00:23:51.920 --> 00:23:55.559
Are you okay? Overall? How
are you doing? I have a

299
00:23:55.720 --> 00:24:00.000
seltzer and I had some sealary earlier. So here's that. I am full

300
00:24:00.160 --> 00:24:04.559
ass a damn. Okay. Well, you had said that this movie,

301
00:24:04.799 --> 00:24:07.079
The Empire Strikes Back to the movie
that you directed. Yes you did.

302
00:24:07.119 --> 00:24:11.480
I know you directed. It was
a literal thing. Did you know that

303
00:24:11.599 --> 00:24:18.039
I directed that? I swear to
you I did I promise you. Listen,

304
00:24:18.240 --> 00:24:21.559
do you want to sit down?
You're standing right now, and I'm

305
00:24:21.599 --> 00:24:25.200
worried about you. I have to
get my steps in. Okay, well,

306
00:24:25.359 --> 00:24:30.480
okay, Urban, how's death been
for you? Oh oh I'm extremely

307
00:24:30.599 --> 00:24:36.960
dead. Yes, you look great, Michael. I have to inside real

308
00:24:37.039 --> 00:24:40.839
quick. The last time Kenny did
the spit, I did exactly what you're

309
00:24:40.960 --> 00:24:45.440
doing. It's like this, what
are you talking about? This takes me

310
00:24:45.759 --> 00:24:51.279
the director for Obo cough too improviser
thing to immediately be like time to talk

311
00:24:51.359 --> 00:24:55.039
to Irvin. You gotta be honest
with your Rollocop too solid movie. Thank

312
00:24:55.119 --> 00:24:57.400
you, I thank you. I
worked very hard on it. Did you

313
00:24:57.519 --> 00:25:03.440
know that a very young friend,
thank Miller wrote that movie? What not?

314
00:25:03.599 --> 00:25:06.279
The old movie? No? Right, he was the old soule writer.

315
00:25:07.000 --> 00:25:11.680
Huh, all right, never mind, it's okay, well listen,

316
00:25:12.319 --> 00:25:15.480
we'll just I'm gonna go over here
now. Yeah, we'll just have me

317
00:25:15.559 --> 00:25:22.079
sit down over there. Thank you. Oh no, looks like you just

318
00:25:22.319 --> 00:25:25.359
went to go take a nap.
Oh good, thank god. Wow.

319
00:25:26.240 --> 00:25:27.079
He said it was a fairy tale. I don't know if you know.

320
00:25:27.160 --> 00:25:30.359
He said it was like Camelot,
which is crazy, because that's what it

321
00:25:30.519 --> 00:25:34.920
is it's for children. He's like, it's another fairy tale and you're so,

322
00:25:36.000 --> 00:25:37.920
you're absolutely right. Asmen, it's
not necessarily for me, but I

323
00:25:38.000 --> 00:25:41.279
mean a sixteen year old boy,
it's still for me. Discuss back to

324
00:25:42.160 --> 00:25:51.160
our discussion in our Star Wars Special
Edition episode, because Lucas's thesis for doing

325
00:25:51.240 --> 00:25:55.799
Star Wars in the first place was
one need to do superheroes in space ye,

326
00:25:56.359 --> 00:26:03.000
and it's about he wanted to achieve
aesthetics. And that's the original trilogy

327
00:26:03.160 --> 00:26:08.440
or specifically Star Wars and Empire just
happened to have good stories because Luis was

328
00:26:08.480 --> 00:26:15.079
in search of a story that would
happen to exhibit the aesthetics that he was

329
00:26:15.319 --> 00:26:21.119
chasing. That's really ultimately what it
was about. And then you go back

330
00:26:21.160 --> 00:26:26.119
through Lucas through film school and th
HX went on three eight and American graffiti.

331
00:26:26.799 --> 00:26:32.200
Those have intent behind them, but
especially with American graffiti, he's trying

332
00:26:32.240 --> 00:26:38.599
to evoke a mood, he's evoking
vibes. Yes, for sure, Star

333
00:26:38.640 --> 00:26:44.920
Wars just happens to stumble backwards into
being a great movie because Lucas has some

334
00:26:45.079 --> 00:26:49.480
fabulous collaborators. Yes, the collaborators
talk about it, which that also a

335
00:26:49.519 --> 00:26:59.440
little bit true American Zow Troupe wasn't
involved with Star Wars like americaraffed watching this

336
00:26:59.519 --> 00:27:03.799
movie and give them notes. John
Melius wrote the opening crawl for seventy seven

337
00:27:03.839 --> 00:27:07.279
Star Wars. Yeah, it's got
fingerprints all over the place. But also

338
00:27:07.440 --> 00:27:11.160
Lucas was the final much like Michael, the final arbiter of what the heck

339
00:27:11.240 --> 00:27:18.359
made it into the movie See you
It is like poetry. Rhyme againess like

340
00:27:18.440 --> 00:27:32.119
poetry. So if they rhyme,
so good you rhymesa christa so us like

341
00:27:32.200 --> 00:27:37.599
poetry. God, You're gonna be
such a good DJ when you grow up.

342
00:27:37.680 --> 00:27:44.319
Kenny again, just watch I literally
just watch that Phantom Menace behind the

343
00:27:44.400 --> 00:27:48.799
scenes, and I was thinking,
I was thinking so much having the last

344
00:27:48.799 --> 00:27:51.799
The last time I watched it,
I remember being so struck by of course

345
00:27:51.880 --> 00:27:56.400
he comes in you mean earlier because
we've also Yeah, if you feel listener,

346
00:27:56.440 --> 00:28:00.519
if you're feeling like you're experiencing deja
v. This is the second time

347
00:28:00.559 --> 00:28:03.480
that we have covered Phantom Menace,
but I think we're gonna have some very

348
00:28:03.559 --> 00:28:10.400
different takes. But in this in
this, in this one, I had

349
00:28:10.440 --> 00:28:15.079
not watched them behind the scenes.
The last one you're watching with Michael on

350
00:28:15.440 --> 00:28:18.839
on Saturday. Uh do you wait? Do you feel some kind of way

351
00:28:18.839 --> 00:28:23.960
about that? Kiddy? Oh?
Genuinely, no, it's just that and

352
00:28:25.079 --> 00:28:30.079
the text messages that I got it
was alluded to that. There was screaming,

353
00:28:30.160 --> 00:28:34.039
yelling. We were screaming. Okay, here's what happened. Oh,

354
00:28:34.119 --> 00:28:37.720
thank you, I happened. I
want tea. You just want to see

355
00:28:37.759 --> 00:28:41.160
a better situation. Well, one, we have to set the stage.

356
00:28:41.799 --> 00:28:45.480
Uh, if it's okay, I
talked about it. Michael's beautiful wife is

357
00:28:45.640 --> 00:28:49.680
also being subjected to this. She
is unhappy. She does not want to

358
00:28:49.720 --> 00:28:52.559
watch this film. She's like,
we need to do like a drinking game

359
00:28:52.599 --> 00:28:57.039
to make this bearable. But the
idea of what like would be what would

360
00:28:57.079 --> 00:29:02.440
be drinking for her, the thinking
would kill us, so we like,

361
00:29:02.680 --> 00:29:04.279
you know, can't do it that
way. Basically, every time there's a

362
00:29:04.359 --> 00:29:08.240
Jedi take a shot, it's basically
that. It was like it was something

363
00:29:08.440 --> 00:29:11.119
so creat I can't even remember,
but it was something like, oh no,

364
00:29:11.240 --> 00:29:15.119
no, we'll we'll all die.
Well I'll die. And she's just

365
00:29:15.119 --> 00:29:18.119
sitting there just like ugh, and
she's clearly trying to like watch the film,

366
00:29:18.240 --> 00:29:22.759
like a film, and meanwhile we
are like, at one point,

367
00:29:22.359 --> 00:29:26.920
like Michael is like, you know, this film should have been focused on

368
00:29:26.079 --> 00:29:30.519
obi Wan and then it would have
been better. And I, because sometimes

369
00:29:30.680 --> 00:29:36.680
I just get stubborn, was just
like, no, absolutely not, I

370
00:29:36.799 --> 00:29:41.559
don't think. And then I went
into the importance of you know, like

371
00:29:41.640 --> 00:29:45.920
Liam Neeson, like Qui gon Jen
as a figure, and like this growth

372
00:29:47.279 --> 00:29:49.920
that like it as a film is
as much of like a growth of obi

373
00:29:51.039 --> 00:29:56.440
Wan and his his path towards this
as well. That's just Anak and both

374
00:29:56.480 --> 00:30:02.039
of you are doing the puppy thing
at me. We're both we're both yeah,

375
00:30:02.079 --> 00:30:06.599
we're both looking at acid as if
they like get a high pitched like

376
00:30:07.119 --> 00:30:11.079
whistle that only we could hear.
I personally think the film would just have

377
00:30:11.160 --> 00:30:25.720
been better if they had done it
totally differently. Yeah, specifically if they

378
00:30:25.759 --> 00:30:29.640
had aged aged Anakin up. He
should have been like he should have been

379
00:30:29.680 --> 00:30:32.400
for me, he should have been
the same age. It was just absolutely

380
00:30:32.440 --> 00:30:34.839
wild to me. But that's one
of my biggest things is everything just feels

381
00:30:34.839 --> 00:30:38.039
absurd. But that was that was
a lot of the core of the screaming.

382
00:30:38.160 --> 00:30:42.200
I don't know why, Yeah,
so I will I will throw in

383
00:30:42.279 --> 00:30:48.519
a little piece to that, because
here's my thought on the thing that would

384
00:30:48.519 --> 00:30:52.839
make the Phantom Menace better if I
could boil it down to just a few

385
00:30:52.920 --> 00:30:56.279
items, if I was going to
make a uh, let's say, a

386
00:30:56.400 --> 00:31:03.279
Demi glass out of the Phantom Menace. A dinni glass is a cooked down

387
00:31:03.680 --> 00:31:10.759
sauce that has turned into a velvety, delicious little pan sauce that you can

388
00:31:10.960 --> 00:31:12.319
put on anything and it makes it
taste delicious. Right. Can I put

389
00:31:12.359 --> 00:31:17.359
it on vegetables? You absolutely,
cat If you on meal, you can

390
00:31:17.400 --> 00:31:19.599
put it on meat. You should
probably put it on you put on literally

391
00:31:19.640 --> 00:31:26.200
anything. It tastes great. Put
it on me, Yes, of course

392
00:31:26.240 --> 00:31:33.680
you can. Okay, oh my
god, hell yeah. But it would

393
00:31:33.720 --> 00:31:38.200
be two things. One, Anakin
should have been the same age as uh

394
00:31:40.240 --> 00:31:44.400
no, as Luke, so that
we would have seen the parallels of Luke

395
00:31:44.920 --> 00:31:51.599
being this little whiny bee and Anakin
being you know, awesome. It would

396
00:31:51.599 --> 00:31:56.240
be great. And then the second
thing is we uh QUI gone, yeah,

397
00:31:56.400 --> 00:32:00.000
if we if it doesn't rhyme,
rhyme, George, it could have

398
00:32:00.039 --> 00:32:05.599
been poetry, so that the rhyme
we're trying to make that y'all, don't

399
00:32:05.680 --> 00:32:08.480
know this. I really want you
to just do more video work. Kenny's

400
00:32:08.519 --> 00:32:14.720
face lights up if you reference the
rhyme, and so they did light up

401
00:32:14.720 --> 00:32:17.839
that time. Uh. And then
the other thing that's more important is it

402
00:32:17.880 --> 00:32:22.799
should have been Obi Wan as Qui
Gon at all times. Qui Gon does

403
00:32:22.920 --> 00:32:29.160
everything. Qui Gon, who we
don't know or care about whatsoever. Uh

404
00:32:29.400 --> 00:32:35.119
from the lore of this thing,
doesn't Uh. He just tells Obi Wan

405
00:32:35.519 --> 00:32:42.240
to go make phone calls the entire
movie until the end, until finally Qui

406
00:32:42.359 --> 00:32:45.200
Gon is dead, and then Obi
Wan's like, all right, I guess

407
00:32:45.240 --> 00:32:49.880
I should do something now. Michael's
very mad about this. It's so ridiculous,

408
00:32:49.920 --> 00:32:53.119
Like why is Obi Wan not like
hanging out with Anakin at all,

409
00:32:53.440 --> 00:32:59.119
getting to know him, seeing some
stuff, seeing him do fun things.

410
00:33:00.119 --> 00:33:02.200
Uh? Uh. Well, so
when Qui Gon dies, by the way,

411
00:33:02.279 --> 00:33:05.200
and this is something that you said
we'll ask, it was like,

412
00:33:05.480 --> 00:33:08.559
well, he needs that like mentor
moment of the death. And then Motherbuck

413
00:33:08.680 --> 00:33:13.039
is like a million miles away while
the other dude's doing spins. You don't

414
00:33:13.039 --> 00:33:15.960
even know that he's dead. He
doesn't know that he's dead till ages later,

415
00:33:15.359 --> 00:33:22.039
a mentor moment for Obi Wan yeah, okayes the star of the movie,

416
00:33:22.240 --> 00:33:29.839
Obi Wan Kenobi on the phone,
saying, Master, there's a we

417
00:33:30.000 --> 00:33:34.799
did more motor engines for our engine
drive. What should we do with our

418
00:33:34.920 --> 00:33:40.920
engine motors? We're out of guess
yeah, we've got no more motivation for

419
00:33:42.079 --> 00:33:47.160
our motor motors. I imagine George
Lucas financing this movie so much, using

420
00:33:47.279 --> 00:33:52.680
so much of his own money to
make this gargantuan independent film. Yes,

421
00:33:53.119 --> 00:33:59.279
uh, money from toy sales and
stuff pre sales. But for some reason,

422
00:33:59.359 --> 00:34:02.400
he refers to the hyperdrive is just
a motor engine. He's like a

423
00:34:02.680 --> 00:34:07.960
bastar, U Loo, can we
use our bus bus drive for our motor

424
00:34:07.079 --> 00:34:14.119
engine. We've got noble motivators.
He's like, He's like, Wow,

425
00:34:14.199 --> 00:34:22.320
I'm really going to take the ship
into the American graffiti. I think just

426
00:34:22.440 --> 00:34:28.639
punched the pick the key code t
x h X one one three eight pop

427
00:34:28.719 --> 00:34:34.159
boop, it worked boo. Why
is he not helping him out with the

428
00:34:34.280 --> 00:34:37.039
damn pod? Reason? Why is
he not teaching him how to sword laser?

429
00:34:37.320 --> 00:34:40.599
Here's what's even more perplexing. Charge
r had to be there. Here's

430
00:34:40.599 --> 00:34:45.119
what's even more perplexing. To add
a wrench into the mechanics here. Let's

431
00:34:45.119 --> 00:34:52.079
not talk about jar jar and wrenches. Uh not. So Qui Gon was

432
00:34:52.159 --> 00:34:59.280
not in original draft of The Phantom
Menace. Who was Obi Wan? Yeah?

433
00:35:00.639 --> 00:35:05.360
Imagine if it's just some oar.
I was waiting for the curve ball.

434
00:35:05.400 --> 00:35:07.679
I was like, it's It was
Dak Bukhan, and I'm like,

435
00:35:07.760 --> 00:35:14.440
oh, who the fuck is this
guy? It was actually famed character actor

436
00:35:14.519 --> 00:35:21.960
Bill Patton, and as himself,
whoa this boys got over twenty thousand midichlorins

437
00:35:22.000 --> 00:35:27.119
and we gotta get into the Jedi
Council. Bill, you're man, what

438
00:35:27.239 --> 00:35:30.159
are we gonna do? Man?
I can't believe Bill and Irvin are both

439
00:35:30.199 --> 00:35:35.440
in your room right now. Is
it Irving or Irving? Irving? It's

440
00:35:35.519 --> 00:35:37.639
weird, no G, but it
sounds like it sounds like Irving. It's

441
00:35:37.719 --> 00:35:47.400
fine, right, Irving, But
no, no G I G. Yeah.

442
00:35:47.440 --> 00:35:52.480
So it's interesting that in original drafts
of the or at least one earlier

443
00:35:52.559 --> 00:35:54.639
draft, it was Obi Wan of
the Qua Gon role. And then at

444
00:35:54.679 --> 00:36:00.960
some point Lucas was like, we're
gonna put Qui Gon, We're going to

445
00:36:01.039 --> 00:36:07.679
invent Qui Gon, and then and
then it removes Obi Wan basically as a

446
00:36:07.800 --> 00:36:17.519
character from that You're right, I
just don't like that either. I don't

447
00:36:17.639 --> 00:36:23.239
like it either. I think the
fundamental issue is that this movie, and

448
00:36:23.320 --> 00:36:27.599
I believe I said this on a
previous Phantom Menace episode and I'll reiterate it

449
00:36:27.679 --> 00:36:37.519
again, this movie needs a different
director. Well because because and I think

450
00:36:37.559 --> 00:36:43.519
this is something that Aspen has helped
me see and listening to the A More

451
00:36:43.559 --> 00:36:51.199
Civilized Age podcast. But wise,
there is so much there on the page

452
00:36:51.960 --> 00:37:00.920
that gets completely lost in execution.
Politics are extremely interesting because totallycharacters are talking

453
00:37:00.880 --> 00:37:07.119
with so much lad in subtext and
it's all about subterfugeon there's there's the Phantom

454
00:37:07.119 --> 00:37:12.800
Menace. Is the politics, y'all? Tension? Yeah, And it's just

455
00:37:13.800 --> 00:37:19.400
there is a whole bunch there on
the page in the stext, but it

456
00:37:19.880 --> 00:37:27.039
just doesn't come across at all,
and it is mired in stilted execution,

457
00:37:27.440 --> 00:37:34.239
poor direction, flat direction. Uh. And what delight there is is primarily

458
00:37:34.400 --> 00:37:42.199
provided with truly revolutionary visual effects that
set the palate of what blockbuster filmmaking is

459
00:37:42.840 --> 00:37:46.639
today, which is absolutely which is
what Roger Eberts said, Yeah it is,

460
00:37:46.800 --> 00:37:50.760
It's exactly that. And you know
what's interesting too, is I know

461
00:37:50.880 --> 00:37:55.880
there There's an argument as well that
seventy seven Star Wars also changed the entire

462
00:37:57.000 --> 00:38:00.800
face of blockbuster filmmaking. It did. Yeah, and so now you have

463
00:38:01.760 --> 00:38:06.239
because I remember and I've said this
before, and I said it wrong before,

464
00:38:06.360 --> 00:38:10.000
so I'm going to be wrong again. This was this one was like

465
00:38:10.119 --> 00:38:14.480
one of the first mostly digital films
to be shown. Is that the case,

466
00:38:14.519 --> 00:38:16.239
No, I got it wrong again
when we talked about this on our

467
00:38:16.280 --> 00:38:20.960
Phantom Menace episode, right, Yes, I know, let's we're going to

468
00:38:21.039 --> 00:38:27.559
go into the deep dive section.
It's great, it's great, it's it's

469
00:38:27.639 --> 00:38:30.400
it's so funny. I just preserved
that is a false memory in my mind,

470
00:38:30.920 --> 00:38:35.159
and I'll tell you why. It's
because it was to me as a

471
00:38:35.320 --> 00:38:39.119
child. I think that felt it
felt that way. It's gotta be one

472
00:38:39.159 --> 00:38:43.960
of the biggest of that time.
Right. Like, as far as fully

473
00:38:44.039 --> 00:38:46.519
digital films, it is not fully
digital. It's not fully There's one scene

474
00:38:46.559 --> 00:38:51.360
that was shot on digital, yes, okay, and that is actually the

475
00:38:51.440 --> 00:38:57.039
Midichlorian check scene. They came back
shot that much later. That is shot

476
00:38:57.159 --> 00:39:00.320
on digital videos. Hold on,
hold on a second. So you're saying

477
00:39:00.400 --> 00:39:06.920
when they when Darth Ball and them
were fighting in that light tunnel. That's

478
00:39:07.000 --> 00:39:12.719
not fully digital. There's a difference. You're talking about digital effects. Yeah,

479
00:39:13.920 --> 00:39:17.719
talking about where supposed to film film
where you can see I gotcha get

480
00:39:19.400 --> 00:39:23.800
episodes two and three are I got
digitally? Oh that's what it is.

481
00:39:24.039 --> 00:39:27.239
That's what it is is. It's
not that Phantom menaces. It's at the

482
00:39:27.400 --> 00:39:31.320
next two were right, and that's
what it is. Those where Phantom Menace

483
00:39:31.400 --> 00:39:38.280
is kind of cures. There's a
I think it's the best looking of the

484
00:39:38.320 --> 00:39:45.960
prequels. Yeah, because probably because
it is film. I think there's still

485
00:39:45.960 --> 00:39:50.960
a lot more practical stuff mixed in
with the digital stuff. There are it

486
00:39:51.320 --> 00:39:55.760
meshes well and then unfortunately, but
what changes the game even more. We'll

487
00:39:55.800 --> 00:39:59.760
talk about this more in Attack Clones. And you can listen to this on

488
00:39:59.840 --> 00:40:04.480
the digital Filmmaking episode of blank Check. Whenever they were just a Star Wars

489
00:40:04.559 --> 00:40:12.400
podcast, Oh that game was digitally
filmed, not I imagine. I was

490
00:40:12.519 --> 00:40:15.679
like, this is blowing my fucking
guess. There's there's this, there's this

491
00:40:15.880 --> 00:40:20.639
podcast. So we'll just the podcast
is called blank Check. It used to

492
00:40:20.679 --> 00:40:23.800
be that they were, Yeah,
they were exclusively about Star Wars. They

493
00:40:23.840 --> 00:40:27.440
were talking about the break balls and
they go through it and there is an

494
00:40:27.480 --> 00:40:31.159
episode I remember now it's been years
since i've really good episode. It's very

495
00:40:31.239 --> 00:40:37.719
cool. But the film blank Check
was was filmed on film. What a

496
00:40:37.800 --> 00:40:39.960
great film? Can we talk about
blank Check? What a great movie?

497
00:40:40.280 --> 00:40:46.559
Like? Honestly, Richie rich suck
it. Blank Check's amazing. I've never

498
00:40:46.639 --> 00:40:51.760
seen it. Oh, it's so
good. Sorry, Katy, I didn't

499
00:40:51.760 --> 00:40:52.440
mean it to cut you off.
But I get a question about that,

500
00:40:52.519 --> 00:40:58.239
because wonderful, I'd love to answer. I guess it's digital film, because

501
00:40:58.280 --> 00:41:07.159
this is this actually peaks my little
digital digital video digital videos? What what

502
00:41:07.320 --> 00:41:13.119
is the pod race done on?
Just digitally computers? Those are done in

503
00:41:13.199 --> 00:41:17.679
computers and then they do everything else
is film and then they do normal film

504
00:41:17.719 --> 00:41:22.400
with that and then it has printed
out onto film. That's so cool.

505
00:41:23.559 --> 00:41:29.000
Yeah, I love it. Yeah, from what I understand, I could

506
00:41:29.039 --> 00:41:32.400
be getting that very wrong. But
that's the process. And that's also why

507
00:41:34.519 --> 00:41:39.239
the push to digital became so much
more important because it shortened the time between

508
00:41:39.800 --> 00:41:44.440
doing a lot less. Yeah,
we're gonna do computer stuff and then we

509
00:41:44.480 --> 00:41:45.320
got to put it on film.
Why don't we just marry the two.

510
00:41:46.239 --> 00:41:50.960
I just I just feel like I
feel like this is just a change in

511
00:41:51.519 --> 00:41:53.800
everything, like maybe and again maybe
that's why I've like established it as this.

512
00:41:53.920 --> 00:41:58.199
Obviously it comes up and attack the
clones where it's like fully digital.

513
00:41:58.519 --> 00:42:01.880
But I just remember the different fence, the moment when they started putting that

514
00:42:02.039 --> 00:42:07.199
thing before movies at movie theaters where
it'd be like, this is digital basically,

515
00:42:07.719 --> 00:42:10.199
and how different it was. And
I remember them like when everything just

516
00:42:10.280 --> 00:42:15.280
suddenly like they stopped saying that because
everything was now digital, and it just

517
00:42:15.440 --> 00:42:20.760
it just does feel like a huge
monumental shift. And I do wonder about

518
00:42:21.760 --> 00:42:24.800
and I mean this, I do
not mean to be like glib here like

519
00:42:24.920 --> 00:42:30.639
the last like the loss of soul
that goes into this, like the like

520
00:42:31.639 --> 00:42:35.760
obviously, I I don't hate this
film. I would love that we have

521
00:42:36.000 --> 00:42:39.679
more of everything, but I wonder
about what we lost through it. So

522
00:42:40.800 --> 00:42:49.880
there's with grade Paler. It comes
great. Yeah, please watch your language.

523
00:42:49.960 --> 00:42:52.960
This is a family podcast. You
I'm allowed to say that, by

524
00:42:53.000 --> 00:43:00.280
the way. I can't. I
can't say hold on, let me,

525
00:43:00.480 --> 00:43:02.559
let me just get my spoons so
I can have a big doll up of

526
00:43:02.639 --> 00:43:09.840
Mayonne's over here. Yeah, I
think there, I think there. You

527
00:43:09.920 --> 00:43:15.760
are correct, Uh, Steve Yedlin, uh, director of photography for The

528
00:43:15.880 --> 00:43:21.440
Last Jedi, probably the best looking
Star Wars movie, and it's just kind

529
00:43:21.440 --> 00:43:28.960
of cinematography genius. Yeah. Has
also a very valid argument about at this

530
00:43:29.119 --> 00:43:36.480
point film and digital can be interchangeable. And also I think Aspen is correct

531
00:43:37.159 --> 00:43:45.599
because folks don't want to do necessarily
the care because there is. They just

532
00:43:45.760 --> 00:43:50.519
want to get to uh, the
the end result as quickly as possible,

533
00:43:50.599 --> 00:43:54.920
as opposed to putting to care.
What is so interesting from Fincher Fincher is

534
00:43:55.159 --> 00:44:04.079
God, Yes, that guy who's
fin David Fincher does all digital and he

535
00:44:04.320 --> 00:44:07.599
does like seventy three thousand tanks that
everything is meticulous. So he's the one,

536
00:44:07.719 --> 00:44:10.199
He's the one, dude doing it, doing it, doing it.

537
00:44:10.519 --> 00:44:15.400
It's also interesting that we're trying to
this conversation because how did how did y'all

538
00:44:15.480 --> 00:44:21.079
watch The Phantom Menace on Saturday?
On a television screen that was digital?

539
00:44:21.400 --> 00:44:23.400
Is that where you're getting at?
Did I get it right? Probably watched

540
00:44:23.440 --> 00:44:28.280
plastic flat screen, plasma flat screen? What do you want me to say?

541
00:44:28.360 --> 00:44:30.360
What was the medium that you watched
it? Oh? Not just TV,

542
00:44:30.679 --> 00:44:40.039
but it was legally down the the
streaming wouldn't work either way. You

543
00:44:40.119 --> 00:44:45.519
got a digital copy, yes,
which makes sense. I watched this because

544
00:44:45.920 --> 00:44:49.960
I'm in Star Wars forums. I
watched a four K thirty five millimeters scan.

545
00:44:51.360 --> 00:44:57.400
Oh cool, and it looks sick
as hell. I believe what is

546
00:44:57.639 --> 00:45:02.639
really lost in and I guess the
digital presentation of even though I'm still watching,

547
00:45:02.960 --> 00:45:08.400
I'm still watching a simulation of the
analog thing. But it looks so

548
00:45:08.639 --> 00:45:16.079
much more rich. The lighting looks
so much prettier as opposed to I think

549
00:45:16.360 --> 00:45:21.280
the version that I am used to, which is just like the DVD version

550
00:45:21.360 --> 00:45:23.559
or the Blu Ray version, the
version that's available on Disney Plus. There's

551
00:45:23.719 --> 00:45:30.119
just something that looks a lot more
flat as opposed to like the gorgeous depth

552
00:45:30.320 --> 00:45:35.599
of Empire, which has such beautiful
cinematography. And I think that just speaks

553
00:45:35.639 --> 00:45:45.880
probably more to where Lucas was at
that time, where he is more interested

554
00:45:45.039 --> 00:45:51.440
in the toys. Yeah, like
so many filmmakers get to at that point

555
00:45:51.440 --> 00:45:59.039
in times, like the tools,
like the innovative tools, because it could

556
00:45:59.039 --> 00:46:04.599
be misconstrued with Lucas because also there
are actually a billion toys that that matter

557
00:46:04.760 --> 00:46:07.280
to the development of these movies.
But I agree with you it was he

558
00:46:07.440 --> 00:46:13.440
was. He definitely used the all
Jim Cameron. I'm calling him Jim because

559
00:46:13.440 --> 00:46:20.840
we're homies. Uh to like move
I would, I would. I would

560
00:46:20.920 --> 00:46:24.199
hang out with James Karen so hard. It would be like I would.

561
00:46:24.280 --> 00:46:28.480
I would sit there and I'd be
like, just get me in that abyss.

562
00:46:28.760 --> 00:46:31.119
You know what I'm talking about.
Give me. I don't think deep

563
00:46:31.400 --> 00:46:38.440
deep, I'm like, I crave
the experience. I just don't you want

564
00:46:38.519 --> 00:46:46.000
that. I want it. Tell
me all your true lies, James h

565
00:46:49.760 --> 00:46:52.239
Yep. But yeah, so I
agree with you, Keeddy, like I

566
00:46:52.280 --> 00:46:57.840
think I think the tech became more
important to him than the movie, than

567
00:46:57.880 --> 00:47:02.360
the making a film that we would
really understand and love and care about.

568
00:47:04.480 --> 00:47:12.039
Well, not not not just the
toys, because but me. As we've

569
00:47:12.280 --> 00:47:17.320
been doing for the past three episodes. Y repiloting the George Lucas legacy Christ

570
00:47:17.440 --> 00:47:24.559
Almighty. He's also very interested in
his legacy as an auto our, the

571
00:47:24.760 --> 00:47:34.559
idea that he's everything as him.
It's all been in his little noggin for

572
00:47:34.880 --> 00:47:39.119
years and now he just has the
tools to be able to do it.

573
00:47:39.320 --> 00:47:44.360
And you can see the beginnings of
it in the special editions where he's making

574
00:47:44.480 --> 00:47:46.440
choices that are not so great of
choices. But it's just for the sake

575
00:47:46.519 --> 00:47:52.000
of almost like reckconning his own stories, like not, I mean, his

576
00:47:52.159 --> 00:47:57.440
own story of being like the creator
of the thing that he's always had this

577
00:47:57.599 --> 00:47:59.559
in mind, so now it's in
here. One. Of course, he

578
00:47:59.639 --> 00:48:05.039
most certainly didn't welcome to me,
being very mad at George Lucas. So

579
00:48:05.199 --> 00:48:08.400
he comes in on films, on
previous films, of course, where there

580
00:48:08.440 --> 00:48:13.199
were different directors, there were different
writers. There's many hands in this.

581
00:48:13.400 --> 00:48:15.320
Now we have, of course,
the first one where it is solely George

582
00:48:15.400 --> 00:48:21.760
Lucas in writing and directing, of
course, obviously not solely him in terms

583
00:48:21.800 --> 00:48:25.159
of bringing it to life. That's
a literal, veritable army of human beings

584
00:48:25.360 --> 00:48:31.760
mostly right, So yeah, so, But in terms of it being the

585
00:48:31.880 --> 00:48:37.639
vision of the thing and everyone having
to like cow to him, he is

586
00:48:37.920 --> 00:48:42.119
he is, He's created this image
of himself through this. This is the

587
00:48:42.320 --> 00:48:47.719
story of George Lucas. Interesting.
So we're talking legacy and what do you

588
00:48:47.880 --> 00:48:52.159
and I don't I don't know how
much longer we should talk about this versus

589
00:48:52.360 --> 00:48:55.280
the other thing, But I'm so
interested in this kind of conversation. Uh,

590
00:48:55.519 --> 00:49:00.719
the legacy of Lucas, especially in
the n eighteen hundreds and nineties,

591
00:49:01.119 --> 00:49:06.679
is what you're referring to as far
as the nineteen hundreds and as far as

592
00:49:07.679 --> 00:49:13.679
yes, like a CG. Jaba
into a special edition and all this stuff

593
00:49:14.000 --> 00:49:16.760
and then him claiming like that's how
it should be. Is that what you're

594
00:49:16.760 --> 00:49:22.679
saying? Okay, I agree with
this? Yes? And oh who did

595
00:49:22.719 --> 00:49:28.599
you guys know that we all do
improv? Could people tell? Can people

596
00:49:28.639 --> 00:49:34.039
tell that we're a fucking obnoxious?
Well? You thinking about it, the

597
00:49:34.239 --> 00:49:40.960
entire Star Wars saga is like a
herald. There's patterns, Yes, and

598
00:49:42.119 --> 00:49:45.719
then you can count like Rogue one
and Solo as the group games stop it,

599
00:49:45.920 --> 00:49:57.079
get the buck that got so deep? Yes, But also and thinking

600
00:49:57.119 --> 00:50:06.119
about Luke's Skywalker as Lucas audience or
as George Lucas circuit as the avatar,

601
00:50:07.559 --> 00:50:12.440
and being like, this is me
George Lucas as a kid wanted to go

602
00:50:12.559 --> 00:50:16.760
make a difference, wanting to do
something in the world, but don't exactly

603
00:50:16.920 --> 00:50:22.440
know what to do, getting caught
swept up into a system that is larger

604
00:50:22.559 --> 00:50:29.800
than him and ending up being someone
that is so pivotal you completely change the

605
00:50:29.960 --> 00:50:36.000
environment at the same time, the
trilogy then becomes about atonement with the father,

606
00:50:36.199 --> 00:50:43.480
his father, because Lucas has on
record of having a quite tumultuous relationship

607
00:50:43.880 --> 00:50:50.519
with his father and doesn't actually get
respect from his father until he makes the

608
00:50:50.599 --> 00:50:57.719
Star Wars trilogy, and so his
relationship finally resolves whenever he makes it big.

609
00:50:58.840 --> 00:51:04.440
And also his father a business owner
than George George Jr. Which is

610
00:51:04.519 --> 00:51:10.719
George Lucas becomes a gargantuine business owner. And then uh oh, so do

611
00:51:10.800 --> 00:51:14.679
you think that George is like,
what do you do? You love me

612
00:51:14.840 --> 00:51:19.800
now? Dan? Yeah? And
then and then then Darth Vader dies,

613
00:51:20.039 --> 00:51:25.159
but he does love Luke at the
very end, and then it's that it's

614
00:51:25.199 --> 00:51:31.920
a different Darth Vader later and as
Ghost Vader. What happens then? What

615
00:51:32.000 --> 00:51:37.480
does that mean? Kenny? I
think father. I think at some point

616
00:51:37.639 --> 00:51:40.320
Lucas was just like, you hate
this, I'm gonna I'm gonna put it

617
00:51:40.400 --> 00:51:49.159
in more. That's true. I
don't know. We most certainly did not

618
00:51:49.400 --> 00:51:53.280
talk enough about George Lucas's daddy problems. I'm telling you that well, and

619
00:51:53.440 --> 00:52:00.599
I think this is this is important
to this next question, a question that

620
00:52:00.679 --> 00:52:04.639
we asked on our previous Phantom Menace
episode, and I will ask again to

621
00:52:04.719 --> 00:52:09.000
the panelists once more. I'm a
I'm a co host, amount of panelist.

622
00:52:09.239 --> 00:52:15.519
The panelists here you, me and
Joprio and Irvin over in the corner.

623
00:52:15.840 --> 00:52:24.639
Yeah, yeah, oh my gosh, Michael's es. You do have

624
00:52:24.760 --> 00:52:28.599
real Lando vibes. Beg you,
you know, like say, listen,

625
00:52:28.639 --> 00:52:30.000
I'm a little bit of a I'm
a little bit of a guard, a

626
00:52:30.039 --> 00:52:31.920
little bit of a cat, a
little bit of a cat. And what's

627
00:52:32.159 --> 00:52:37.519
ed that your performance is so much
better than Donald lovers and solo. That's

628
00:52:38.039 --> 00:52:43.760
true, It really is true,
Matrix reactions being a masterpiece. I'm right

629
00:52:43.800 --> 00:52:51.360
about Donal terrible performance and bad time. Maybe we're not here toleticate this matrix

630
00:52:52.000 --> 00:53:02.679
La matrix a frappuccino who I'm so
sorry. We really need to not pick

631
00:53:02.719 --> 00:53:07.000
on you. It doesn't matter because
in eight years Yo would be on my

632
00:53:07.159 --> 00:53:12.519
side. It's gonna be we're terrorists
if we are we are, if we

633
00:53:12.599 --> 00:53:17.880
are subscribing to Star Wars through the
lens of a tour theory. The two

634
00:53:19.000 --> 00:53:23.039
kids with their dad who were just
like, we're like yourself, thank you

635
00:53:23.119 --> 00:53:27.639
so much. If we get through
this, I swear to you use Patreon

636
00:53:27.719 --> 00:53:36.199
money to get you guys McNuggets happy. If we are subscribing to every film

637
00:53:36.320 --> 00:53:38.519
is about their filmmaker, and we're
ascribing to au tour theory, which doesn't

638
00:53:38.519 --> 00:53:45.360
necessarily apply but for the sake of
exercise, and because Lucas does exercise whenever

639
00:53:45.440 --> 00:53:49.800
he does direct, at least send
his three previous films so personal to him.

640
00:53:50.119 --> 00:53:54.079
There are so many personal elements.
Who do you think is the Lucas

641
00:53:54.199 --> 00:54:04.199
surrogate here in Phantom Menace? Hmmm, I'm gonna say it's Yoda Yoda,

642
00:54:05.199 --> 00:54:09.639
It's Yoda, Lady Doodle. Okay, I'm gonna say it's actually I'm gonna

643
00:54:09.679 --> 00:54:20.199
say it's boss nasts the same.
No, But also because he's like uh

644
00:54:21.360 --> 00:54:23.679
uh, is that he doesn't do
a lot and then at the end he's

645
00:54:23.719 --> 00:54:28.800
the one who raises the ball.
He's the one who acts like he nailed

646
00:54:28.840 --> 00:54:36.480
it. Kun. If you're if
you're George Lucas putting yourself into the movie,

647
00:54:36.519 --> 00:54:39.519
who do you if you you're George
Lucas, It's okay because we on

648
00:54:39.599 --> 00:54:45.519
the outside can be like nas is
it qui? Gon? Is that what

649
00:54:45.639 --> 00:54:47.320
you think? Kiddy? I don't
think that there's a right answer. I

650
00:54:47.400 --> 00:54:53.159
have a I think it's Anakin Skywalker, and I will get to it after

651
00:54:53.239 --> 00:54:59.719
this. Whoa, because I I
could see the qui gon in the sense

652
00:54:59.800 --> 00:55:04.519
of like being like, well,
I'm measured. I'm coming from this perspective,

653
00:55:04.639 --> 00:55:07.639
this point of view when I have
my vision. And here's how you

654
00:55:07.679 --> 00:55:10.159
get into abound out, how you
get into you just have to say this

655
00:55:10.320 --> 00:55:14.480
one word, as Liam Neeson,
it's bananas. But you have to say

656
00:55:15.480 --> 00:55:22.239
but not nursed, but nurse my
wife, my wife she does. Oh,

657
00:55:22.320 --> 00:55:29.920
that's how you get into Harrison for
my wife, my wife, it's

658
00:55:30.199 --> 00:55:36.960
so much. My wife was trying
to go for love love actually, Liam

659
00:55:37.039 --> 00:55:38.920
Neeson, Okay, okay, okay, I'm sorry. I'm back. That

660
00:55:39.119 --> 00:55:45.280
man is so tall, that man
is six four. So I think just

661
00:55:45.320 --> 00:55:50.440
because of coming at it with that
perspective, that's maybe like being the guiding

662
00:55:50.639 --> 00:55:53.280
force of in the way he'd see
myself. That's my guess. That's my

663
00:55:53.440 --> 00:56:01.280
argument. Michael opinions if okay,
if I were if it were to really

664
00:56:01.440 --> 00:56:07.039
be somebody that I think he would
have like a true connection to that he

665
00:56:07.079 --> 00:56:20.280
would say, I am uh like
I feel like this person. I think

666
00:56:20.360 --> 00:56:25.079
it's I think it's uh, yes, I think it's Yeah, I think

667
00:56:25.079 --> 00:56:32.119
it's Palpaty because I think that,
like you said, he started to do

668
00:56:32.920 --> 00:56:37.559
the thing that he wanted with the
things with the special editions, and he

669
00:56:37.639 --> 00:56:45.440
started to maliciously own it, like
he wanted to almost kick you know,

670
00:56:45.119 --> 00:56:50.440
uh what's it to like stick it
to the people that thought that they had

671
00:56:50.519 --> 00:56:55.280
better ideas on the Star Wars lore. They were doing all these extended universe

672
00:56:55.400 --> 00:56:59.000
stuff, and he's like, that's
not my loop, that's not mine,

673
00:56:59.039 --> 00:57:05.599
you know, I don't know who
uh was it like uh oh, I'm

674
00:57:05.599 --> 00:57:07.760
blakeing on the names now, but
all of the like the fact that Luke

675
00:57:07.840 --> 00:57:15.519
has babies and the factory yeah yeah. And it's like I feel like he

676
00:57:15.119 --> 00:57:21.679
started to become insidious a little bit
into his own thing, and he was

677
00:57:21.800 --> 00:57:29.280
all owning he was like everything.
Well, this very much goes into my

678
00:57:29.400 --> 00:57:35.440
reading of why I think he's the
the Lucas analog is and in Skywalker,

679
00:57:35.559 --> 00:57:44.039
and it's actually a lot of those
points. But also whereas Palpatine is manipulating

680
00:57:44.119 --> 00:57:51.239
everything Lucas, you read everything,
you read the interviews, and he's very

681
00:57:51.320 --> 00:57:54.360
much just like I wanted to do
tone poems. I wanted to do experimental

682
00:57:54.480 --> 00:58:00.199
artsy movies and he's coming into he
gets hold into the thing, oh like

683
00:58:00.280 --> 00:58:05.079
almost like interesting? Will yeah,
like yeah, but shut up, George

684
00:58:05.079 --> 00:58:08.440
would make the movies we want because
it's like he wanted to keep making American

685
00:58:08.480 --> 00:58:13.760
Graffiti. He wanted to keep making
like he didn't want to make American Graffiti

686
00:58:13.880 --> 00:58:19.880
was a challenge from Coppola being like, go warm movie, right, and

687
00:58:20.039 --> 00:58:22.679
so he made that and it's a
masterpiece, right. But he Yeah,

688
00:58:22.760 --> 00:58:27.239
he wants to make his tone poems. He wants to make his like feeling

689
00:58:27.679 --> 00:58:30.199
never mind, I dig that no
one has stopped him from that. But

690
00:58:30.280 --> 00:58:32.800
I think this is also a filmmaker
who's looking back on his life with some

691
00:58:34.519 --> 00:58:38.320
regrets. And so in this weird
way, this is him looking at his

692
00:58:38.519 --> 00:58:43.840
career so far and singing with one, two, and three where he went

693
00:58:43.960 --> 00:58:47.239
wrong. And I say, this
will make the Phantom menace before going to

694
00:58:47.400 --> 00:58:54.000
therapy. I will actually a dendum
that and I'll say, men will make

695
00:58:54.159 --> 00:59:04.199
Captain e o before going to therapy. Sorry, I interrupted you for a

696
00:59:04.320 --> 00:59:08.079
joke, can you please? That's
I mean, that's that's on point.

697
00:59:08.920 --> 00:59:15.119
Because Lucas is also extremely self aware
of the person that he has become.

698
00:59:15.920 --> 00:59:17.480
You read it interviews, and he's
like, yeah, I think I just

699
00:59:17.599 --> 00:59:23.079
kind of became the Empire at some
point. So he's he's aware and so

700
00:59:23.400 --> 00:59:27.920
millionaire, right, like, how
could you be like a rebel and like

701
00:59:28.000 --> 00:59:32.000
all of those things when you when
you're selling toys became he became the system.

702
00:59:32.039 --> 00:59:37.519
And not only that, but his
intentions were manipulated by a grander system.

703
00:59:37.639 --> 00:59:42.480
And then the system co opted the
thing that he was good at to

704
00:59:42.599 --> 00:59:46.800
become to become a tool for nefarious
deeds, and so he became lost in

705
00:59:46.880 --> 00:59:52.480
the weeds, if you like.
Even though Luke Skywalker is the avatar for

706
00:59:53.320 --> 01:00:01.480
the original trilogy, I think and
again this this is all extra textual analysis.

707
01:00:01.639 --> 01:00:06.480
I don't think any of this is
on record. But if we're applying

708
01:00:06.519 --> 01:00:10.800
au tour theory, which I am
quite liberally, I think I think that's

709
01:00:12.199 --> 01:00:20.639
that's what Lucas is trying to examine. And then yeah, here's my what

710
01:00:21.639 --> 01:00:23.360
do you think of that take?
I've got a hotter take incoming. Okay,

711
01:00:24.119 --> 01:00:30.480
I fully agree with everything you said
about him becoming the empire, him

712
01:00:30.519 --> 01:00:35.519
becoming the bad guy. I think
he I mean, you know, Allah

713
01:00:35.960 --> 01:00:40.400
Palpatine Allah Anakin, Like they're similar
in that way. Yeah, Anakin being

714
01:00:42.599 --> 01:00:47.480
probably more like George in nineteen seventy
seven, then Palatine would be obviously but

715
01:00:49.519 --> 01:00:53.079
then ultimately being corrupted and then now
becoming the thing. I love it.

716
01:00:53.199 --> 01:01:00.039
I truly think that George Lucas was
like out of his rocker what he made

717
01:01:00.440 --> 01:01:04.079
the Phantom Menace, and he got
to the end line of it, like

718
01:01:04.199 --> 01:01:08.280
you watched the documentary stuff and he's
spouting whatever, and everybody's like, uh

719
01:01:08.400 --> 01:01:13.639
huh, Yeah, everything's great.
And that's why we have a meme of

720
01:01:13.760 --> 01:01:16.199
him talking about poetry rhyming, because
everybody's like, yeah, that's great,

721
01:01:16.280 --> 01:01:21.840
But in Hinsley, you're like,
what the what. Although I would like

722
01:01:21.920 --> 01:01:23.840
to say before you got on Mike
or before you came on, I was

723
01:01:25.039 --> 01:01:30.960
I did just watch that whole thing, and I do feel like that whole

724
01:01:31.039 --> 01:01:36.519
poetry rhyming thing, the original idea
is very beautiful because this whole idea is

725
01:01:37.199 --> 01:01:39.079
my argument there. Sorry, I'm
taking a small thing out of context.

726
01:01:39.119 --> 01:01:42.119
We're going to come back to the
point here in a second, which is

727
01:01:42.199 --> 01:01:45.679
that he at that point had only
made three films and then to bring this

728
01:01:45.800 --> 01:01:49.559
one film where it's like, here's
the father of Luke Skywalker and like there

729
01:01:49.800 --> 01:01:53.800
is a reflection and like he is
the one who does like ultimately help them

730
01:01:53.880 --> 01:01:59.039
win the final battle with in the
ship. And that's the same thing with

731
01:01:59.199 --> 01:02:01.039
Luke in the finals. It's what
he was referring to when he's talking about

732
01:02:01.039 --> 01:02:07.079
this poetry. Can you though?
Because here's why, here's why I want

733
01:02:07.159 --> 01:02:09.559
us to stop, And because here's
the thing. Okay, we're talking yes

734
01:02:09.719 --> 01:02:13.920
men, yes about this. Yes, right, And there's a billion yes

735
01:02:14.039 --> 01:02:17.559
men, yes in this thing.
Yes. And you know the proof that

736
01:02:17.679 --> 01:02:22.079
there is a there's just all he
was surrounded by yes men throughout the film

737
01:02:23.840 --> 01:02:37.079
is one uh mister Juju binks it's
jar jars where everybody said yes to that.

738
01:02:37.840 --> 01:02:43.679
That is, there was never a
hold on well should we, hey,

739
01:02:43.760 --> 01:02:49.440
George, real quick? Should we? Is there any other designs for

740
01:02:49.800 --> 01:02:55.079
fun character out there? Maybe not, not that one. George is the

741
01:02:55.159 --> 01:02:59.039
key to all of this. There
is the key to all of this.

742
01:03:00.039 --> 01:03:02.400
I mean that the key to unlocking
the madness. If that's what you mean,

743
01:03:02.760 --> 01:03:07.599
I think it. I again,
I know I'm coming off of having

744
01:03:07.639 --> 01:03:09.559
watched it. I've said that a
billion times that documentary, and it made

745
01:03:09.599 --> 01:03:15.760
me feel really upset to see Ahmed
Best having so much fun and like being

746
01:03:15.920 --> 01:03:21.920
so clearly so fun to work with
and having like a great time or like

747
01:03:22.039 --> 01:03:27.199
doing like committing himself to this performance. This is no and so it feels

748
01:03:27.360 --> 01:03:30.960
like like a like I'm like,
it's a real big fuck you to George,

749
01:03:30.320 --> 01:03:36.119
like fuck you truly for like having
no awareness of this thing and what

750
01:03:36.280 --> 01:03:40.880
you've like done, and then also
fuck you to an entire fandom of like

751
01:03:40.960 --> 01:03:46.480
people who rather than direct their eye
appropriately, decided to like terrorize a guy.

752
01:03:47.079 --> 01:03:52.000
It's it's the weird thing about criticism
of Phantom Menace because then uh,

753
01:03:52.559 --> 01:04:03.000
genuine criticism that could have been constructed
becomes bad faith criticism and then essentially just

754
01:04:03.440 --> 01:04:11.440
kind of gets kind of aggregated into
George Lucas sexually assaulted my childhood. Oh

755
01:04:12.239 --> 01:04:19.039
yeah, yeah yeah, but then
it then just galvanizes him even further.

756
01:04:19.119 --> 01:04:23.760
Although episode two and episode three the
reasons that I don't think those are nearly

757
01:04:24.159 --> 01:04:27.320
even though Phantom Metas Make No Mistake
is not a good movie, but I

758
01:04:27.440 --> 01:04:32.280
think episode two and episode three are
not nearly as whole. You can see

759
01:04:32.320 --> 01:04:40.119
them being way more compromised and a
reactionary Yeah. Yeah, Phantom Menace.

760
01:04:40.800 --> 01:04:45.960
Yeah, I wonder if that's that's
funny. Phantom Menaces so many fucking issues.

761
01:04:45.000 --> 01:04:47.639
And also it is my favorite of
the three. It is because it

762
01:04:47.760 --> 01:04:54.400
is holy itself. It is,
it is all of all of the bad

763
01:04:54.480 --> 01:04:59.000
intention stuff. It's it is itself
has its own thing as opposed to I

764
01:04:59.119 --> 01:05:02.079
think what episodes two and three are
trying to do, and I think I

765
01:05:02.159 --> 01:05:06.599
agree with you totally. I think
the old it's like where it's like Poetry

766
01:05:06.599 --> 01:05:14.280
at Ryan stuff comes in the appearance
of like C three po and Archie D

767
01:05:14.440 --> 01:05:16.039
two and these things where you're just
like, right, you're shoving this,

768
01:05:16.199 --> 01:05:21.039
And then episodes two and three do
that even more because I think Lucas is

769
01:05:21.079 --> 01:05:28.119
savvy enough to be like, well, fans like a both vet, we

770
01:05:28.199 --> 01:05:30.719
gotta do it, Yeah, we
gotta have. But I mean, you're

771
01:05:30.760 --> 01:05:34.039
right, I think Star Wars has
been reactionary since nineteen ninety nine, like

772
01:05:34.559 --> 01:05:41.719
period. Everything that we've seen from
Star Wars, aside from like I think

773
01:05:41.800 --> 01:05:45.760
maybe the cartoon network Clone Wars has
had like a little bit of a taste

774
01:05:46.000 --> 01:05:51.800
of like we've gotta we gotta,
we gotta backtrack some stuff. We gotta

775
01:05:51.840 --> 01:05:58.280
do some some some red coonning and
cleaning up and everything has been retconning something

776
01:05:58.360 --> 01:06:00.960
for the past twenty years, I
mean reponsible. Yeah, Michael, you'd

777
01:06:00.960 --> 01:06:05.800
be interested to know that it's also
a reckon reaction area. So real quick,

778
01:06:06.119 --> 01:06:11.079
real, real quick. Should we
talk about Star Trek. We're going

779
01:06:11.119 --> 01:06:15.000
to get to it. Uh wait, what's Star Trek? We're going to

780
01:06:15.039 --> 01:06:19.639
get to it. Because I also
think that Patterns of Force is especially now

781
01:06:19.840 --> 01:06:26.920
an extremely rich text to talk about. Possibly coincidentally, I think it's so

782
01:06:27.119 --> 01:06:32.519
interesting to see different stories about different
rises of fascism. Not only that,

783
01:06:32.880 --> 01:06:36.960
but like also in both of these
is what it looks like to have a

784
01:06:38.079 --> 01:06:43.760
populist, one focused leader that can
lead to like to this thing, uh

785
01:06:44.639 --> 01:06:48.960
like to this new system and the
kinds of ways that then ultimately, like

786
01:06:49.239 --> 01:06:53.599
it is battle say, it is
having an US versus them that leads to

787
01:06:53.760 --> 01:07:00.760
concentrated power ultimately, which is the
core of Patterns. Of course, wow,

788
01:07:03.440 --> 01:07:10.360
Ptaw has become the master the Boy. So anyway, let's talk about

789
01:07:10.360 --> 01:07:15.320
Star Wars. But also the idea. I think it's really compelling. What

790
01:07:15.360 --> 01:07:17.159
you are talking about, though,
is the idea of like, even if

791
01:07:17.199 --> 01:07:23.960
he recognizes it or not that Lucas
is the tour he is also the charismatic

792
01:07:24.079 --> 01:07:26.760
leader. At least he sees himself
as this thing. I think he has

793
01:07:26.880 --> 01:07:30.920
enough of self awareness to recognize even
he's not all the way, but I

794
01:07:31.000 --> 01:07:35.639
think he has self awareness enough where
exactly what you said, he's the charismatic

795
01:07:35.800 --> 01:07:42.760
leader and led to some uh,
he's the charismatic leader like Captain Kirk in

796
01:07:43.079 --> 01:07:48.880
Patterns of Flour No, like John
Gillis or whatever. John gillis the figurehead.

797
01:07:49.199 --> 01:07:54.880
John Gillis first, yeah, that's
true, Malicon, but John Gillis

798
01:07:55.000 --> 01:07:59.119
as like this leader, which yeah, John, sorry, John gill it

799
01:07:59.280 --> 01:08:04.800
is. So it's interesting to research
the perception of this through These Are the

800
01:08:04.840 --> 01:08:09.280
Voyages season two. It's a book
that he reads. It's a book that

801
01:08:09.400 --> 01:08:12.639
I read all the time, by
Mark Cushman. That's where I pulled my

802
01:08:12.719 --> 01:08:28.359
research from Cash A. Cush theh
But frequently, and I believe this was

803
01:08:28.399 --> 01:08:32.479
written before twenty sixteen. But frequently
critics and the author himself are like,

804
01:08:32.600 --> 01:08:38.600
yeah, this episode's pretty mid it's
not great. The director Vincent mcabedie is

805
01:08:38.680 --> 01:08:41.399
like, I think this might have
been my least favorite episode that I ever

806
01:08:41.520 --> 01:08:44.399
directed, And I'm watching this now
and I'm being like, this isn't astute

807
01:08:45.079 --> 01:08:51.560
piece of populist TV making sort of
the nineteen sixties, because this could have

808
01:08:51.640 --> 01:08:57.960
been just like Kirk coming in punching
the fascist leader and bouncing, and instead

809
01:08:57.960 --> 01:09:03.760
it has the whre withal to wreck
nice. How the systems are employed,

810
01:09:04.199 --> 01:09:09.880
how you can manipulate them. Aspen's
favorite thing, it doesn't take the individual

811
01:09:10.000 --> 01:09:13.840
to punch out them, but instead
a community of people that are working in

812
01:09:14.039 --> 01:09:17.960
tandem in order to at least begin
to dismantle those systems. Should like Star

813
01:09:18.039 --> 01:09:23.640
Wars is great, Star Wars,
No, Star Wars Star Wars is ultimately

814
01:09:23.920 --> 01:09:31.399
actually about community together defeating Just putting
that out there, Oh, not segueing

815
01:09:31.520 --> 01:09:33.920
then We're not No, no,
no, we are. I'm just I'm

816
01:09:34.000 --> 01:09:39.199
just I'm just saying that. Often
you hear the argument that I'll be like,

817
01:09:39.279 --> 01:09:41.920
well, Star Trek is actually about
the collective and Star Wars is about

818
01:09:42.000 --> 01:09:44.199
individuals. No, no, no, no, no, that's not my

819
01:09:44.359 --> 01:09:46.720
argument anyway. Could that be about
thedividuals? We have ewoks anyway. Yes.

820
01:09:48.319 --> 01:09:50.800
One of the things that's so interesting
you said that, Kiddy, because

821
01:09:50.800 --> 01:09:56.520
one of the things that I thought
was how now that you say this,

822
01:09:56.640 --> 01:10:00.399
like, how could that be bad
if Quentin Taranty know, literally copied that

823
01:10:00.560 --> 01:10:06.920
for a whole movie, Like Inglorious
Bastards is just this right, Like it's

824
01:10:08.319 --> 01:10:13.840
literally so influential to this, Like
it's it's got Wizard of Oz in there,

825
01:10:14.039 --> 01:10:17.800
It's got Glorious Bastards in there.
Uh, it's got standard Nazi fair

826
01:10:17.880 --> 01:10:21.359
there. What what's not to like? Yeah, you know it's funny too

827
01:10:21.359 --> 01:10:28.720
because I also Skinny s I it's
got hot Skinny Spock. They're all hot.

828
01:10:30.159 --> 01:10:32.279
No, no, no, I
will say this. Leonardie moy has

829
01:10:32.399 --> 01:10:39.119
been a a darling and a handsome
man. He's been in many Next Generation

830
01:10:39.239 --> 01:10:42.279
episodes and he's always killed. Oh
no, that's his dad. That's his

831
01:10:42.399 --> 01:10:46.039
dad. Sarah is in a lot
of them. Uh two, two or

832
01:10:46.079 --> 01:10:53.399
three, that's the important ones.
Uh and Sarah episode is so good?

833
01:10:53.479 --> 01:10:59.640
All right, all right, I
think it's good. I mean it's season

834
01:10:59.720 --> 01:11:04.439
three is an is a season of
TV where it's just like someone spilled all

835
01:11:04.560 --> 01:11:09.720
the bangers out on the table and
they were just like should we put the

836
01:11:09.800 --> 01:11:12.760
bangers in the box? And they're
like, actually, let's stay them for

837
01:11:12.840 --> 01:11:15.680
season four, Let's just kind of
leave the bangers on the table. Let's

838
01:11:15.720 --> 01:11:18.399
just go well, he okay,
I know what you're about to say,

839
01:11:18.439 --> 01:11:26.079
and I disagree. Well, part
of that is because they do put makeup

840
01:11:26.159 --> 01:11:29.680
on Leonard Nimoy to make him look
more sallow, because his no, no,

841
01:11:29.760 --> 01:11:33.479
no, it's his. It's the
shoulders. He looked, he looked.

842
01:11:33.600 --> 01:11:40.239
He's got a great he's got an
actor's head. Head is giant have

843
01:11:40.399 --> 01:11:42.880
actors heads? No, no,
no, no, you know what I'm

844
01:11:42.880 --> 01:11:45.239
talking about. The one thing like
you could just film from here to here

845
01:11:45.600 --> 01:11:48.760
and it'll fill up the four by
three ratio, Michael. Some of us

846
01:11:48.920 --> 01:11:55.439
like guinea boys. That's some of
us also like big boys. Some of

847
01:11:55.560 --> 01:11:58.880
us like muscular boys. We like
all the boys. I was shocked by

848
01:11:58.960 --> 01:12:01.439
Scot, That's all I'm gonna say. I was all in on chefs,

849
01:12:02.279 --> 01:12:06.920
the chef boy himself, and I
was shocked by Spock, and I like

850
01:12:08.119 --> 01:12:13.840
fixated on it. Probably too long, but covered in green paint. Okay,

851
01:12:14.800 --> 01:12:16.159
a bit a bit of a well, but okay, well, hatties

852
01:12:16.600 --> 01:12:28.039
everywhere, hotties everywhere, hatties everywhere, the uh shirtless Shatner chef's kiss.

853
01:12:28.840 --> 01:12:33.399
I liked I liked the little rebel
who could you know, the rebel without

854
01:12:33.399 --> 01:12:36.760
a cause whatever his name was,
is Zach is Zach? Because I was

855
01:12:36.840 --> 01:12:41.079
like yes, because I was like, I was like very close to Isaac.

856
01:12:41.199 --> 01:12:45.039
And then he's like the other guy's
ab which is like Abraham DoD and

857
01:12:45.960 --> 01:12:48.119
and I sock, I wrote that
down up. Yeah, Okay, you

858
01:12:48.159 --> 01:12:53.359
guys gotta try harder on the allegories
there, you know the connections. I

859
01:12:53.439 --> 01:12:57.159
think it's pretty subtle. Oh,
I know what I was going to say

860
01:12:57.159 --> 01:13:03.000
before I got distracted arguing for Skinny
Spock is that I also was reading kind

861
01:13:03.039 --> 01:13:06.439
of reviews and perceptions even not like
at the time, but now, yeah,

862
01:13:06.439 --> 01:13:12.840
I did some research. God damn
it, you ask she's kind of

863
01:13:12.920 --> 01:13:15.640
curious. And I feel like a
lot of a lot of what you see

864
01:13:15.640 --> 01:13:20.159
as people being like this is tired, like this is done right and it's

865
01:13:20.239 --> 01:13:25.159
so funny, and I wonder if
it is just like something about like the

866
01:13:25.319 --> 01:13:31.720
time where we are like, yes, nazis a real true threat now and

867
01:13:32.399 --> 01:13:40.199
the rise of a dangerous like populist
fascist force is a threat now. So

868
01:13:40.520 --> 01:13:43.199
I watched this. I watch this
episode and I'm like, yes, all

869
01:13:43.279 --> 01:13:46.399
of this is relevant. Now as
opposed to being like ah another like those

870
01:13:46.520 --> 01:13:49.720
Nazis, they're not a big deal
anymore. Why are we doing this episode?

871
01:13:49.880 --> 01:13:56.039
Yeah? It was in watching when
I dry video essay? Is that

872
01:13:56.640 --> 01:14:01.960
help me see that Nazis were able
to become just blanket bad guys that then

873
01:14:02.079 --> 01:14:06.880
American exceptionalism, no matter what,
could beat up Nazis and prove how masculine

874
01:14:06.920 --> 01:14:14.560
that they are, which is so
so fascinating because Nazis unequivally bad guys.

875
01:14:14.680 --> 01:14:18.000
And also now they've been able to
be co opted as a perfect symbol of

876
01:14:18.039 --> 01:14:23.439
a bad guy, so it can
show how badass America is. Yeah,

877
01:14:23.720 --> 01:14:27.640
there and there there is something too. I was thinking about like two about

878
01:14:27.680 --> 01:14:30.159
the idea of it, like hitting
you over the head with this black and

879
01:14:30.239 --> 01:14:33.640
white of badness kind of thing,
which of course we don't have that we

880
01:14:33.720 --> 01:14:38.000
have a complexity. But also sometimes
I am like, there's a black and

881
01:14:38.039 --> 01:14:43.920
white badness here, like there actually
is now again sometimes there is. Uh,

882
01:14:45.159 --> 01:14:46.760
I will say, as a person
of color, it's always there's always

883
01:14:46.800 --> 01:14:54.840
been a black and white badness,
which was bad. I didn't know that

884
01:14:54.920 --> 01:14:57.600
you're a person of color. I
don't see color, so woods see,

885
01:14:59.000 --> 01:15:04.680
we're no no, but he really
is color blind. He has no guns

886
01:15:04.720 --> 01:15:06.880
and rats. Yeah, I got
no car. It's like a dog.

887
01:15:08.239 --> 01:15:12.199
He's like, oh shit, so
what do you think? Like? Everything

888
01:15:12.359 --> 01:15:15.600
looks like you said, looks like
is she not the same skin color as

889
01:15:15.640 --> 01:15:21.560
new Kingdrich? No? Interesting,
not anymore. The only one who is

890
01:15:21.720 --> 01:15:30.920
is Michael Jackson and Sammy Sosa teeth
cut references. Nobody will on this podcast.

891
01:15:30.680 --> 01:15:38.159
I agree with you. I like
that perspective. I liked this episode.

892
01:15:38.279 --> 01:15:44.640
I thought going into this I was
going to, uh, I was

893
01:15:44.720 --> 01:15:46.640
going to have not a bad time, but I was going to it was

894
01:15:46.640 --> 01:15:50.279
going to be a slog like I
was going to have to watch this as

895
01:15:50.359 --> 01:15:55.720
homework and not for fun. And
I ended up watching it and really liking

896
01:15:55.840 --> 01:16:00.439
it. I liked I thought it
was fun. I thought it was cheesy

897
01:16:00.520 --> 01:16:03.800
and kitschy and all of the things. It wraps up in literally a minute

898
01:16:03.800 --> 01:16:09.399
and a half, which is a
classic like old show thing, and they

899
01:16:09.479 --> 01:16:12.880
do the other classic old TV show
thing, which is right after the commercial

900
01:16:12.960 --> 01:16:17.680
break, they just repeat everything that
just happened, which is so obviously that

901
01:16:17.800 --> 01:16:21.760
there is like a commercial break,
And I love that right after what after

902
01:16:21.960 --> 01:16:33.520
a commercial break, sockety in seat
again if they run so like I was

903
01:16:33.560 --> 01:16:38.199
saying, like, I love that
they just kind of wrap everything up right

904
01:16:38.279 --> 01:16:40.920
at the end in ninety seconds.
Oh, I'm sorry, it was Joe

905
01:16:41.239 --> 01:16:49.159
just going back in case anybody missed
that. Okay, I like it.

906
01:16:49.600 --> 01:16:54.359
I like the parallels too. There's
a lot of Star Wars parallels. Right.

907
01:16:54.399 --> 01:16:57.920
They're taking uniforms, that's always.
That's a trope. That's like an

908
01:16:58.000 --> 01:17:01.159
ultimate Star Wars trope. I actively
was like they pulled a Star Wars Wars.

909
01:17:01.199 --> 01:17:04.479
Yeah. I love that. They
were like stealing the thing they were

910
01:17:04.560 --> 01:17:09.319
breaking in. It was a constant
like Burke like a like, right,

911
01:17:09.479 --> 01:17:12.720
what's every Star Wars is just basically
a caper movie? Right, Like they're

912
01:17:12.720 --> 01:17:16.079
always just like breaking into something somewhere
to like, you know, gat they

913
01:17:16.119 --> 01:17:20.720
have to get six people together in
order to break somebody out or do something

914
01:17:21.039 --> 01:17:25.840
by breaking in. That's everything.
And they're running away and then they're fucking

915
01:17:25.880 --> 01:17:29.720
it up somehow, and it's it's
it's Ocean's eleven in space all the time

916
01:17:30.000 --> 01:17:35.479
every Star Wars. Uh, And
I'm not wrong. Rogue one so low,

917
01:17:35.720 --> 01:17:41.479
they're so even then one solo,
particularly as a heist fun yeah,

918
01:17:41.800 --> 01:17:45.760
and so hold on, hold on
the last forty minutes or our highest movie.

919
01:17:45.800 --> 01:17:47.640
The rest of that movie just doesn't
know what the hell it's doing.

920
01:17:47.840 --> 01:17:53.359
That's all, okay, that's fine. It's still And don't act like I'm

921
01:17:53.399 --> 01:17:56.800
not right. You and me are
legion on this. We're going to be

922
01:17:57.000 --> 01:18:00.720
right. It's fine. So you
can say that about the first Star Wars

923
01:18:00.800 --> 01:18:02.359
movie, right, The first forty
minutes has not has nothing to do with

924
01:18:02.399 --> 01:18:06.479
a princess and trapped in a prison. Oh, make no mistake. I'm

925
01:18:06.680 --> 01:18:11.479
just looking for any excuse to clown
a Rogue one. Hey, because our

926
01:18:11.560 --> 01:18:14.560
good friend and patron Mark Bibert very
much likes this movie, and I like,

927
01:18:15.159 --> 01:18:17.800
I like you Mark him. I
was going to Mark and b I

928
01:18:17.960 --> 01:18:23.680
think the wrong kind of fans have
mobilized behind Rogue one because it's the most

929
01:18:23.800 --> 01:18:30.000
badass as opposed to like being like
it's an okay film that hasn't amazing.

930
01:18:30.119 --> 01:18:33.920
It's bad. It's not great.
It's great, Michael, great, yes,

931
01:18:34.720 --> 01:18:38.880
thank you, but it's it's not
great. But anyway, hold on

932
01:18:38.960 --> 01:18:42.039
a second, Michael, do you
I don't know if you noticed this about

933
01:18:42.119 --> 01:18:45.920
Rogue one, and maybe AskMen can
help help me on this analysis. But

934
01:18:45.079 --> 01:18:48.640
like, I guess the first Star
Wars movie, that's like about war.

935
01:18:49.199 --> 01:18:51.800
Yeah, I would say, like
it's like it actually like kills people.

936
01:18:51.960 --> 01:18:57.319
There's people that actually wild, like
people are actually like like, she's a

937
01:18:57.399 --> 01:19:01.039
rebel, she rebelled, but she
doesn't say about national yeah, because it's

938
01:19:01.079 --> 01:19:05.159
too bad. A war going on. Dad. She's got a dad too,

939
01:19:05.479 --> 01:19:12.279
but he was like a war Dad
Orkins dies. Do we care?

940
01:19:12.399 --> 01:19:15.520
We don't care. We don't.
We didn't care about that one, Michael.

941
01:19:15.560 --> 01:19:17.600
We didn't care about it until Rogue
one. No, because Rogue one,

942
01:19:17.720 --> 01:19:23.479
like people died? What about people
died, Michael? People die?

943
01:19:23.920 --> 01:19:30.760
What didn't Willow die? Will die? No, don't get it. I

944
01:19:30.840 --> 01:19:33.439
get it. I don't listen.
I did a lot of push outs while

945
01:19:33.520 --> 01:19:36.319
washing Rogue one. You know,
it got me real. It got your

946
01:19:36.359 --> 01:19:41.319
real palms, I got your real
pomped. It was like it was like

947
01:19:41.520 --> 01:19:47.159
Vietnam for real. It was it
was actual because there was jungle. Okay,

948
01:19:47.239 --> 01:19:50.720
what are the other connections you saw
between Star Wars and Start the other

949
01:19:51.000 --> 01:19:55.479
connection I saw? Wait? I
wrote this out. Oh Dang Dang ding

950
01:19:55.600 --> 01:20:04.840
ding ding Uh. I liked the
not CG but CG shots of the enterprise

951
01:20:04.920 --> 01:20:10.319
in space. I thought that looked
pretty good for the time, and I

952
01:20:10.520 --> 01:20:13.560
was actually wrote it down. It's
like, is this updated for Paramount plus

953
01:20:13.960 --> 01:20:19.079
or not? Because it is okay
because the exact experience. Yes, yeah,

954
01:20:19.119 --> 01:20:25.119
because most people are watching the special
editions of it. But unlike Star

955
01:20:25.199 --> 01:20:30.479
Wars, you can actually go easily
procure the original versions of legal means,

956
01:20:30.680 --> 01:20:35.800
as opposed to you have to to
find a legal copy of the original versions.

957
01:20:36.319 --> 01:20:40.600
You have to say there it is
all bs, well, it looked

958
01:20:40.680 --> 01:20:42.960
good. And then the last thing
I think you're gonna like this one,

959
01:20:42.960 --> 01:20:47.079
because I thought this was like sort
of like a a more aw toeur esque

960
01:20:47.239 --> 01:20:53.279
version of this was there's a line
that Spock says in the beginning of it.

961
01:20:53.359 --> 01:20:57.560
He says something about it looks like
this is all about causes and motivation.

962
01:20:58.399 --> 01:21:00.479
Yes, And I was like,
that is Star Wars, right,

963
01:21:00.560 --> 01:21:03.439
Like it's all especially the first one, right, like, it's all about

964
01:21:04.279 --> 01:21:10.840
what happens and who's motivated to do
some sort of uh, you know,

965
01:21:11.079 --> 01:21:16.840
manipulation and indiation in the backgrounds,
and then how that affects the world around

966
01:21:16.920 --> 01:21:27.000
it. So we go to Tattlewen
and we see the slaves akas Zeons being

967
01:21:27.199 --> 01:21:31.680
persecuted, and I said, oh, Kenny's gonna get hard for this one.

968
01:21:32.199 --> 01:21:38.239
Kenny came earlier when you said your
it was gross. It was all

969
01:21:38.279 --> 01:21:44.600
over the microphone. He's doing it
again. You can do it on command.

970
01:21:44.720 --> 01:21:54.000
That's actually what a jedi. Yeah, if you're a Jedi, the

971
01:21:54.239 --> 01:21:57.239
main thing you do is just make
yourself come, like if I was if

972
01:21:57.319 --> 01:22:00.479
I was a fifteen year old Anakin
sky Jedi, and I didn't make myself

973
01:22:00.560 --> 01:22:04.000
come all the time. I am
not the chosen one. That's all I'm

974
01:22:04.039 --> 01:22:13.319
saying. I would do it a
bunch. I'm not thinking about how I

975
01:22:13.359 --> 01:22:15.600
can do it right now. You
can't. I can't. I don't have

976
01:22:15.720 --> 01:22:18.880
that skill. I don't have the
Mediclorians. We don't have the Mediclorian accounts

977
01:22:18.880 --> 01:22:25.479
to do it. My vindicount is
too low many counts. Yes, though,

978
01:22:25.800 --> 01:22:28.840
I'm so I loved that line actually
because I also feel that way about

979
01:22:28.880 --> 01:22:31.560
history, that like, it's it's
a story. It's a story. It's

980
01:22:31.560 --> 01:22:35.359
about motivations and people, and its
stories can be told by certain people and

981
01:22:35.600 --> 01:22:40.279
not told like not have the other
stories be told. It's not it's not

982
01:22:40.880 --> 01:22:45.520
dates and figures. It's about what
leads from one thing to the next.

983
01:22:46.039 --> 01:22:50.319
Uh, and so I like that, and it's true, that's if Star

984
01:22:50.399 --> 01:22:54.039
Wars is about. Yeah, it's
about the rise of an empire and the

985
01:22:54.119 --> 01:22:58.119
fall of an empire. Star Trek, of course, is like post all

986
01:22:58.239 --> 01:23:01.840
of that in the right because we've
already had all these uprisings and now we're

987
01:23:01.880 --> 01:23:05.760
into utopia. Just for Earth.
Star Wars is looking at the world as

988
01:23:05.800 --> 01:23:11.439
it is, and Star Trek is
looking at the world the way that we

989
01:23:11.760 --> 01:23:15.760
want it, the way Gene wants
it to be full of sex. Yeah,

990
01:23:17.039 --> 01:23:21.399
very not a terribly horny episode,
except for the fact that we did

991
01:23:21.439 --> 01:23:28.479
a shirtless spot. You're right,
it wasn't who was not in it nearly

992
01:23:28.680 --> 01:23:32.800
enough for this guy's never in it. She needs to be in everything all

993
01:23:32.880 --> 01:23:39.760
the time. Uh. The little
blonde Savior, you know, it was

994
01:23:40.239 --> 01:23:44.640
a little cutie, little cuty,
but she's all right, Yeah, like

995
01:23:44.720 --> 01:24:14.640
a six. I think earlier in
this episode we were talking about kind of

996
01:24:14.760 --> 01:24:19.560
using aesthetics rather using story as a
means of exhibiting aesthetics. Uh, huh

997
01:24:20.199 --> 01:24:29.199
uh. And I'm gonna read you
this memo from NBC executive Stan Robertson because

998
01:24:29.319 --> 01:24:31.439
all of us are being like,
this is a great episode, pretty insightful

999
01:24:31.520 --> 01:24:40.520
about how insidious fascism is, even
though that this episode is extremely blunt unsubtle,

1000
01:24:40.640 --> 01:24:47.039
which make no mistake, I think
subtlety is for cowards. Well,

1001
01:24:47.920 --> 01:24:53.880
he just came out his microphone again. Guys, Oh my god, anger

1002
01:24:54.039 --> 01:24:59.720
come wowt subtlety is for cowards.
We live in unseubtled times. Stream at

1003
01:25:00.159 --> 01:25:05.159
stream your viewpoints loud. But also, like Lucas, he backed his way

1004
01:25:05.279 --> 01:25:09.920
into his story so he could use
his aesthetics. And so here's this memo

1005
01:25:10.039 --> 01:25:15.399
from Stan Robertson NBC executive to producer
in charge of the time, genekun Mm

1006
01:25:15.520 --> 01:25:21.640
hmmm. One of the contingencies upon
which this outlined patterns of force was approved

1007
01:25:21.720 --> 01:25:26.479
was your statement that our previous considered
story dealing with a Nazi type theme has

1008
01:25:26.560 --> 01:25:30.640
been abandoned. We would add that
it is our suggestion that we not too

1009
01:25:30.800 --> 01:25:35.399
heavily, not dwell too heavily on
the speeches, philosophy, et cetera of

1010
01:25:35.520 --> 01:25:41.039
the Nazi like group, but concentrate
more on the visual excitement, which is

1011
01:25:41.079 --> 01:25:46.960
obviously inherent in this well plooted storyline. Yeah. Interesting, So he's saying,

1012
01:25:48.000 --> 01:25:53.560
don't do a German accent, just
rock the rock the outfits. Is

1013
01:25:53.600 --> 01:25:59.399
that what he's saying. I think
what this means is you can use the

1014
01:25:59.479 --> 01:26:03.800
aesthetics, but like, don't use
the talking Well they do use the talking

1015
01:26:03.880 --> 01:26:14.399
points, but they could have gone
harder as opposed to I think what the

1016
01:26:15.000 --> 01:26:20.439
what Nazi imagery eventually becomes and what
is so easy to subvert when the in

1017
01:26:20.640 --> 01:26:26.960
our current rise of fat in our
current state of fascism, Rather because as

1018
01:26:27.000 --> 01:26:30.880
long as you don't look like these
all of these signposts, well you can't

1019
01:26:30.920 --> 01:26:34.319
be a Nazi. You're wearing a
poll of shirt storch. That means that

1020
01:26:34.399 --> 01:26:39.800
you're not a Nazi. So at
least we're not those guys. But you

1021
01:26:39.920 --> 01:26:43.920
represent someone that is clearly an evil. But you kind of sand the edges

1022
01:26:44.000 --> 01:26:46.359
down, even though they are still
talking about a final solution. But you

1023
01:26:46.560 --> 01:26:50.960
never and you do see some whippings
on our main characters, but you don't

1024
01:26:51.000 --> 01:26:57.920
see the grotesque atrocities, and you
don't see them malling about the truly abhorrent

1025
01:26:58.039 --> 01:27:04.960
behaviors because it would be a bummer. And also I just wonder if there

1026
01:27:05.079 --> 01:27:12.800
isn't a little bit of well,
like we don't want to offend someone involved

1027
01:27:13.600 --> 01:27:23.000
in here, because I'm reminded of
some passage that I read recently where the

1028
01:27:23.279 --> 01:27:27.079
the there was a brief resurgence of
blackface in the sixties and they were like,

1029
01:27:27.680 --> 01:27:31.520
what are you doing? Stop it? From the end, Double ACP

1030
01:27:31.920 --> 01:27:36.960
and other folks, and so they
got rid of blackface, and because they

1031
01:27:36.960 --> 01:27:44.720
didn't want any complaints from anyone,
they just didn't hire black actors period until

1032
01:27:44.840 --> 01:27:51.920
the n Double ACP rallied for like
what we want to be on TV because

1033
01:27:53.039 --> 01:27:57.840
they don't care about the subject matter. They care about the esthetics. The

1034
01:27:58.079 --> 01:28:03.159
yeah, the aesthetics, and then
ultimately the backlash is like fine, fine,

1035
01:28:03.800 --> 01:28:08.239
then we won't. It's it's weirdly, I'm I just listened to a

1036
01:28:08.279 --> 01:28:11.119
podcast. This is gonna be a
complete tangent. Sorry, I listen to

1037
01:28:11.159 --> 01:28:15.359
a podcast today about the Google AI
thing that happened. Have you heard about

1038
01:28:15.359 --> 01:28:23.399
this where Google has that's creepy.
It's creepy. Wait a year about it.

1039
01:28:23.880 --> 01:28:31.640
Google has ah owing for corrected their
AI so that when you would type

1040
01:28:31.680 --> 01:28:38.399
in something like show me a photo
of the founding fathers, they're now all

1041
01:28:38.640 --> 01:28:43.079
like bipod folk. And that was
that's a real thing. They looked like

1042
01:28:43.199 --> 01:28:46.399
like the Hamilton, you know cast, instead of who they actually were.

1043
01:28:46.880 --> 01:28:51.319
And then it would do the same
thing for like the CEOs of Google,

1044
01:28:51.439 --> 01:28:56.880
Like if you would type in image, give me an image of the CEOs

1045
01:28:56.920 --> 01:29:00.159
of Google on a unicorn, it
would be like Asian people and st of

1046
01:29:00.319 --> 01:29:03.640
like the way and what it was
was ages ago in Google Photos. Do

1047
01:29:03.680 --> 01:29:08.199
you remember this. I remember this
where they used to start the tagging when

1048
01:29:08.239 --> 01:29:12.760
it used to auto tag stuff like
friends and stuff and images. Yeah,

1049
01:29:13.079 --> 01:29:19.119
they auto tagged gorillas for black folk
in photos because they had not done enough

1050
01:29:19.239 --> 01:29:24.479
data pulling of black folk to like
tag them properly, and they got a

1051
01:29:24.560 --> 01:29:29.159
huge kerfuffle, so they did this
instead. So they overcorrected and then made

1052
01:29:30.079 --> 01:29:32.920
the founding fathers black because they were
like, well, we'll do this sort

1053
01:29:32.960 --> 01:29:36.840
of like weird extra work. And
that's what it almost sounds like what you're

1054
01:29:36.840 --> 01:29:41.520
talking about here, where it's like, oh, you guys got offended by

1055
01:29:41.560 --> 01:29:45.279
this, or maybe Ohura kissing Captain
kirkis is crazy. We just would have

1056
01:29:45.720 --> 01:29:48.760
any possibility of that ever happening ever
again. And then everybody's like no,

1057
01:29:48.840 --> 01:29:51.760
no, no, no, right, that's not how we wanted. That's

1058
01:29:51.800 --> 01:29:56.159
all what we want. We want
it to be reasonable. Yeah, right,

1059
01:29:57.279 --> 01:30:00.920
for studios, it is no matter
what it is ultimately about the battle

1060
01:30:01.159 --> 01:30:05.720
bottom line, Which is why whenever
art does become meaningful, it becomes extra

1061
01:30:05.800 --> 01:30:12.039
special because you have to recognize that
every single force is trying to or is

1062
01:30:12.039 --> 01:30:16.399
trying to stand down every single possible
edge to make it as profitable, not

1063
01:30:16.520 --> 01:30:20.960
even safe, but profitable as possible. That's why we all loved everything,

1064
01:30:21.479 --> 01:30:26.359
everywhere, everywhere, all at once, because it's the only thing that's not

1065
01:30:26.560 --> 01:30:30.079
sanded on its edges. I got
it. Here's what I was gonna bring

1066
01:30:30.159 --> 01:30:31.840
up. Here we go. Yeah, you want to talk about standing some

1067
01:30:32.039 --> 01:30:41.880
edges. There is a scene in
which, after the twelfth time that Kirk

1068
01:30:41.960 --> 01:30:45.960
and Spock have knocked some Nazi guard
out. I mean, how many times

1069
01:30:45.000 --> 01:30:49.560
do they do it? Like fourteen
times? In my opinion? Punch it?

1070
01:30:49.880 --> 01:30:55.079
Do you'all remember whenever we start arguing
about punching Nazis, and I genuinely

1071
01:30:55.239 --> 01:30:59.880
was like, punch a fucking Nazi
and stop it. Sorry, go on,

1072
01:31:00.239 --> 01:31:01.760
I don't remember that. I wish
I was there. People are like

1073
01:31:02.000 --> 01:31:05.279
I would I wouldn't engage in that
kind of violence. I'm just like fuck

1074
01:31:05.359 --> 01:31:13.520
off, punch Jesus anyway, put
that on a shirt. There is the

1075
01:31:14.199 --> 01:31:23.159
twelfth time they do it. Uh, the rebel without a cause? So

1076
01:31:23.760 --> 01:31:28.760
hold yes, somebody for one and
a half milliseconds and that dude is out

1077
01:31:29.760 --> 01:31:34.119
for ever. And it happens.
No, that's a fulcon pinch happens,

1078
01:31:34.720 --> 01:31:39.439
not how it show cold happens.
And I don't want to get to be

1079
01:31:39.560 --> 01:31:45.319
fair. He's xyon. Yeah,
maybe zons have their own words, so

1080
01:31:45.560 --> 01:31:54.479
Xeon's and and what's the other what's
the other culture? Econs made up?

1081
01:31:54.520 --> 01:31:58.439
Did you make that up? I
couldn't. I can't remember. But I

1082
01:31:58.520 --> 01:32:02.600
also it's eCos and say on,
ghosts and Xeon. Yeah, so you're

1083
01:32:02.640 --> 01:32:05.359
telling me a ghost can't handle it
a little chocoal. No, they're the

1084
01:32:05.520 --> 01:32:15.399
they're the warmongers. That's a w
yeall Hey, Mark from Arizona, love

1085
01:32:15.479 --> 01:32:26.039
you baby, that's a w take
it to the bank, acons, I

1086
01:32:26.960 --> 01:32:30.520
yes, I hate to say.
The surveys in Christall is going to take

1087
01:32:30.600 --> 01:32:35.760
this episode. Yeah, it's fine, listen, it's fine. Everything's fine.

1088
01:32:36.319 --> 01:32:44.359
I'm fine, how are you?
I? I just want to go

1089
01:32:44.479 --> 01:32:46.920
back to the aesthetics. It is
funny, a fun and interesting fact,

1090
01:32:47.119 --> 01:32:53.520
because of the aesthetics and the very
clear like Nazi regalia. Uh, this

1091
01:32:53.800 --> 01:32:58.760
episode was banned in Germany. Sure, yeah, so they wouldn't show it

1092
01:32:58.840 --> 01:33:02.800
there. Uh. I think the
Second World War they were like, hey,

1093
01:33:03.600 --> 01:33:09.319
uh, what if we didn't do
any of that, Michael as opposed

1094
01:33:09.359 --> 01:33:12.359
to America, which would be like, yeah, I guess our side loss,

1095
01:33:12.399 --> 01:33:15.720
but like let's keep reliving. Yeah, let's make sure that we keep

1096
01:33:15.800 --> 01:33:19.119
all of the Confederate flags up right
right. Yeah, so they they just

1097
01:33:19.239 --> 01:33:23.880
didn't. Yeah, I imagine they
could show it today, but that isn't

1098
01:33:23.920 --> 01:33:30.439
interesting. It is about the visuals
there, and I do I just to

1099
01:33:30.520 --> 01:33:34.479
go back to what you're saying for
Kenny, like the it is so obvious

1100
01:33:34.600 --> 01:33:39.600
even without a lot of the uh
the word usage, right, Like,

1101
01:33:39.840 --> 01:33:42.600
without a lot of the rhetoric,
Like, it's still very obvious what is

1102
01:33:42.640 --> 01:33:45.920
happening here. These are Nazis.
It is like, yes, it's like

1103
01:33:46.000 --> 01:33:50.800
Starship Starship Troopers. It's so interesting
that they're saying Nazi Like meanwhile they're bouncing

1104
01:33:50.840 --> 01:34:00.079
around with swastikas. They're Nazi Nazis. It is exclusively, exclusively, not

1105
01:34:00.199 --> 01:34:02.760
in fact, to the point where
it's just like this guy he came in

1106
01:34:02.880 --> 01:34:06.039
and he was like, yeah,
uh, by the way, I just

1107
01:34:06.159 --> 01:34:11.920
want to call out that. Uh
this dude whose spock has been like oh

1108
01:34:12.039 --> 01:34:16.039
yeah, he has a total understanding
of like actions and consequences. This dude

1109
01:34:16.159 --> 01:34:21.960
was like, yeah, what if
I came in and introduced an authoritarian regime

1110
01:34:23.560 --> 01:34:28.640
and didn't think about what could happen, which, from there I think comes

1111
01:34:28.680 --> 01:34:30.119
off, Oh I have something say
about that in a minute, but oh

1112
01:34:30.199 --> 01:34:33.920
my god, I think it comes
up as tired, tired in nineteen sixty

1113
01:34:33.960 --> 01:34:38.479
eight, but like now, yeah, the internet is right with a whole

1114
01:34:38.479 --> 01:34:42.840
bunch of rights, being like hey, trains ran on time, trans ran

1115
01:34:43.479 --> 01:34:47.840
right, right, you're right.
Oh yeah. There's a grain podcast that's

1116
01:34:47.840 --> 01:34:54.359
a noiser podcast goes into like an
insane like seventy hours on Hitler and that

1117
01:34:54.439 --> 01:34:58.079
whole thing, And absolutely there's like
moments where they talk about it in hours

1118
01:34:58.119 --> 01:35:01.760
on Hitler. It's a it's one
episode, it's called one episode. It's

1119
01:35:01.840 --> 01:35:12.239
called one episode that's seventy hours long. Apostrophe, Hitdler, Hitler, No

1120
01:35:12.520 --> 01:35:15.439
but and they talk about it like
that, and there's moments where like,

1121
01:35:15.479 --> 01:35:17.840
well, you know, sometimes like
he could lead the things where people were

1122
01:35:17.920 --> 01:35:21.439
like this is working. They were
making money, bread is being made,

1123
01:35:23.279 --> 01:35:26.760
and I and there, but the
thing that was driving wild in the show,

1124
01:35:27.600 --> 01:35:30.239
and I know that this is a
trope of the Vulcans, and I

1125
01:35:30.319 --> 01:35:34.840
know this was an attempt to find
a foil to captain Kirk in that like

1126
01:35:35.000 --> 01:35:41.279
Kirk is the impulsive, heart felt
you know, like you know, look

1127
01:35:41.319 --> 01:35:44.000
at the bright side of things,
maybe we'll figure this out, kind of

1128
01:35:44.039 --> 01:35:46.840
gumption guy. And then so this
way, Leonardy Boy could be the foil

1129
01:35:46.920 --> 01:35:49.680
to that. But there were so
many times in this episode where I'm like

1130
01:35:50.159 --> 01:35:56.319
that that's not even really that logical, Like it's like it's like logical on

1131
01:35:56.439 --> 01:35:59.800
like the basest level of logical.
Like he did the thing with bones as

1132
01:36:00.119 --> 01:36:02.319
you and he says, you know, the logical thing would do you to

1133
01:36:02.760 --> 01:36:05.720
point your toe downwards and then push
you pull your shoe up. I'm like,

1134
01:36:06.079 --> 01:36:09.319
you know, that's not logically,
you're just like describing how to put

1135
01:36:09.359 --> 01:36:13.000
on a tight shoe. And then
he did the same thing with uh,

1136
01:36:14.279 --> 01:36:18.520
the idea of fascism, and he's
like, logically, it makes sense that

1137
01:36:18.640 --> 01:36:23.159
this one and you're like, I
mean, yes, but logically, you

1138
01:36:23.399 --> 01:36:27.600
know the history, so you know, that logically, the inevitable result of

1139
01:36:27.840 --> 01:36:32.640
that path is this, like it
always is this, as you should know

1140
01:36:32.840 --> 01:36:40.279
from your battle with Romulans for ages. Whoopsie, what's that? That's another

1141
01:36:40.720 --> 01:36:43.119
reference to Star Trek that I knew. I'm just saying, I'm putting it

1142
01:36:43.159 --> 01:36:48.439
out there. Can he looks like
you're having a spiritual experience. Ketty's doing

1143
01:36:48.520 --> 01:36:54.000
his own version of the Vulcan salute, and I a lot it three points

1144
01:36:56.079 --> 01:36:58.920
as you were talking, he just
kept raising a finger at a time,

1145
01:36:59.399 --> 01:37:00.479
and it was so clear that he
was just like, oh wait, you

1146
01:37:00.560 --> 01:37:05.960
just said another thing. Second point
three things point number one, Star Trek.

1147
01:37:06.720 --> 01:37:10.840
You can tell that Star Trek has
ran by uh, white dudes like

1148
01:37:10.920 --> 01:37:14.680
me says that white dudes, because
they're like, I know that barbarians are

1149
01:37:14.720 --> 01:37:19.239
stupid and terrible, but like much
respect, Like this is this is a

1150
01:37:19.359 --> 01:37:24.920
running motif in the original series.
Frequently they will be like, I know

1151
01:37:25.159 --> 01:37:29.279
that they slaughtered entire races, Like, but what if they didn't just do

1152
01:37:29.439 --> 01:37:31.760
that one? But like what a
noble warrior that they are. Oh my

1153
01:37:31.920 --> 01:37:36.720
god, it happened if only they
hadn't done that one bait the idea right,

1154
01:37:36.800 --> 01:37:41.680
which goes back to the backpat on
liberalism. That is just ripe through

1155
01:37:42.079 --> 01:37:46.640
all of Star Trek. Yeah.
Yeah, point number two, you and

1156
01:37:46.760 --> 01:37:53.359
two and three go in tandem,
Michael. So Mike, get ready for

1157
01:37:53.439 --> 01:37:56.680
this, not as when you can
tune out, I can leave. Yeah.

1158
01:37:57.159 --> 01:38:00.000
Uh, but point number two.
Spock is the smartest guy in the

1159
01:38:00.079 --> 01:38:06.319
room most every time. Hold on, hold on, hold on. He

1160
01:38:06.439 --> 01:38:13.319
didn't even know that, Michael Kirk
back for hours. Michael, you haven't

1161
01:38:13.399 --> 01:38:23.560
heard point number three yet, transminders
didn't you haven't. You have to realize

1162
01:38:23.600 --> 01:38:27.039
that Spock is a smug little bit. He has a smug old bitch.

1163
01:38:27.279 --> 01:38:34.159
Sounds familiar, Kenneth Kendall. Because
Spock is sassy. Spock tells jokes.

1164
01:38:34.439 --> 01:38:36.920
He's got a dry sense of humor. He does tells a good jokes.

1165
01:38:38.000 --> 01:38:42.680
There is a good joke in there. Because this episode is the Kirk Spock

1166
01:38:42.800 --> 01:38:48.680
chemistry in this app is like off
the chart, next level. The banter

1167
01:38:48.840 --> 01:38:54.079
in this episode is so good,
which is wild because, Asmin can confirm,

1168
01:38:54.520 --> 01:39:00.800
I think this second half of this
sceneson of original series has been kind

1169
01:39:00.840 --> 01:39:03.119
of weak sauce. It's been a
week sass, but it's been week sauce.

1170
01:39:03.159 --> 01:39:09.199
On the the Niemoy Shatner because Shatner
started feeling like Nimoy was stealing his

1171
01:39:10.000 --> 01:39:13.319
spotlight, so there was less.
There was less Spock. I didn't know

1172
01:39:13.399 --> 01:39:17.279
that. I didn't know that.
Uh, but this episode, like everything

1173
01:39:17.520 --> 01:39:23.279
is working totally together. I mean, Leonard Nimoy literally calls Shatner a Nazi

1174
01:39:23.520 --> 01:39:26.600
and it's the best. He says, you look pretty good in that hat,

1175
01:39:27.039 --> 01:39:30.680
and he's like a bo He basically
does like a you should make a

1176
01:39:31.039 --> 01:39:41.079
quite convincing Nazis when one of the
Nazis is interrogating Spock and says you're not

1177
01:39:41.159 --> 01:39:45.880
a za onto, which Spock dryly
goes obviously right his uneral sassy fans there.

1178
01:39:46.560 --> 01:39:48.800
I mean, like I said,
the helmet, taking off the helmet.

1179
01:39:49.199 --> 01:39:53.760
I mean, listen, I'm not
saying Leonard dmoy is not giving at

1180
01:39:53.800 --> 01:39:59.760
all, because he's giving big time. I'm just saying the logical stuff got

1181
01:39:59.880 --> 01:40:03.439
a a little bit much when he
was condescendingly teaching Bones how to put on

1182
01:40:03.520 --> 01:40:06.960
a type. That's because he's sassy
and he loves being sassy. This is

1183
01:40:08.159 --> 01:40:13.239
this is also that's also the Spock
Bones relationship for what it's worth, which

1184
01:40:13.399 --> 01:40:16.720
is when it's the three of them
together. It's like fireworks. They all

1185
01:40:16.800 --> 01:40:21.640
are fucking don't worry about it.
It's fun. It's yes, yes,

1186
01:40:23.079 --> 01:40:25.960
But but I am with you.
If this is what I'm hearing, I

1187
01:40:26.079 --> 01:40:30.520
get so annoyed at like the logical
vulcan kind of thing, because I'm like,

1188
01:40:30.560 --> 01:40:34.000
it's illogical. Everything you're talking about
igical. But he said, the

1189
01:40:34.039 --> 01:40:38.039
thing about the like this is,
you know, technically this is a good

1190
01:40:38.039 --> 01:40:41.960
idea of like you know every part
of this history, and you're like,

1191
01:40:42.119 --> 01:40:45.159
this is technically a good idea,
it's not. It's because a good idea

1192
01:40:45.680 --> 01:40:51.319
ends good, right exactly, A
good idea could would not be stoking the

1193
01:40:51.439 --> 01:41:00.319
flames murder, yeah, of xenophobia
and racism, like you know, that's

1194
01:41:00.520 --> 01:41:02.319
that's would be. That would be
a bad we call a bad idea.

1195
01:41:02.439 --> 01:41:08.920
That's a bad idea. It's a
bad idea. So therefore it's not logical

1196
01:41:08.960 --> 01:41:16.359
as fog, you absolute dickhead.
You're fucking skinty dig Still, he's hot,

1197
01:41:16.960 --> 01:41:19.760
he's so hot. Later on,
he's hot when he's got the bandana,

1198
01:41:19.800 --> 01:41:25.279
when he's chasing after whales. I
said, how spoilers, spoilers,

1199
01:41:25.720 --> 01:41:30.119
I do know about the whales?
Is it as good as box? Do

1200
01:41:30.159 --> 01:41:34.560
you rag? Come on? How
you ever ask you that? Aspen?

1201
01:41:34.600 --> 01:41:36.920
How you go ever ask you that? If it's better than tu bc?

1202
01:41:36.960 --> 01:41:42.199
Word a do rag? Wait you're
talking about you're talking about Voyager. Wait

1203
01:41:42.800 --> 01:41:46.119
wait a second, wait a second, wait a second, wait a second

1204
01:41:48.680 --> 01:41:58.239
wait wait sorry wait it's a logical
it's wait just wait wait a second.

1205
01:42:00.840 --> 01:42:10.600
Tupac Tuvac. Yeah, you want
to talk about ice sock. That's that's

1206
01:42:10.600 --> 01:42:14.399
where he's subtle. We got we
got the only black guy and a billion

1207
01:42:15.239 --> 01:42:21.239
light years. His name rides with
Tupac and let's keep it. We need

1208
01:42:21.279 --> 01:42:29.159
a black Vulcan name. You've only
got five seconds. Go great, go

1209
01:42:29.560 --> 01:42:43.079
print Can and druck love Mark Piggy
Wiggy, Yeah, Wiggy Vulcan should have

1210
01:42:43.319 --> 01:42:48.600
taken an extra day or two.
He uh, he's not all he's sly

1211
01:42:48.760 --> 01:42:55.760
half Fulcan we love Wiggy? Though? We love Wiky? We loved him.

1212
01:42:56.560 --> 01:43:00.520
He was great. Originally that character
on starts Voyager was and you can

1213
01:43:00.560 --> 01:43:08.439
find in an early script the original
name was Steve orkell Uh I believe it

1214
01:43:08.520 --> 01:43:13.319
was pronounced or col No. That
was whenever he went through the machine,

1215
01:43:14.439 --> 01:43:19.800
when he went to the the holid
deck all right, so patterns of Force.

1216
01:43:20.159 --> 01:43:24.159
Uh, I got one last thing. I got one last thing,

1217
01:43:24.920 --> 01:43:30.560
because this goes back to, uh, the beauty of finding it again or

1218
01:43:30.640 --> 01:43:35.600
finding like never seeing this right.
And I think this kind of also connects

1219
01:43:35.640 --> 01:43:42.560
to Aspen's love of The Phantom Menace, which was like it was new and

1220
01:43:42.760 --> 01:43:45.239
fresh and all that. When I
watched this, this was new and fresh

1221
01:43:45.279 --> 01:43:53.399
to me, and I loved that
Shatner was Shatner like it was very it's

1222
01:43:53.479 --> 01:43:57.439
like, oh, the things that
he talks and the way it was like

1223
01:43:57.560 --> 01:44:00.479
it was a thing that you always
if you've ever watched it, you could

1224
01:44:00.520 --> 01:44:04.479
do a Shatner from the millions of
people that do Shatner, but you don't.

1225
01:44:04.479 --> 01:44:09.560
You always like that's that's you know, playing it up. It's not

1226
01:44:09.840 --> 01:44:13.960
really that way. And then I
watched this episode and I was like,

1227
01:44:14.079 --> 01:44:18.520
oh, it is that way.
It's one hundred percent that think the oh,

1228
01:44:18.720 --> 01:44:33.840
the the you know, he's a
vampire apparently, but they did,

1229
01:44:34.239 --> 01:44:39.000
they did. Those shirts were off
for way longer than they needed today.

1230
01:44:39.399 --> 01:44:45.039
There was a part in that where
it was Shanna clothed and Spock unclothed for

1231
01:44:45.199 --> 01:44:48.239
a long time, and I typed, I wrote in uh, instead of

1232
01:44:48.359 --> 01:44:56.720
CFNM, which is a porn acronym
for closed female nude man, I wrote

1233
01:44:57.079 --> 01:45:00.760
C S and S and I was
like, yes they want that, Yes,

1234
01:45:01.279 --> 01:45:09.600
close shut nude, and it was
for me interesting that does not call

1235
01:45:09.880 --> 01:45:15.359
Kirk nudes bock mist. I have
been interchangeable on both of them this whole

1236
01:45:15.399 --> 01:45:19.000
time. Certainly they are real to
me only in that they are not real.

1237
01:45:19.720 --> 01:45:24.520
So I loved it. I love
that Shatner was like, very Shatner.

1238
01:45:25.399 --> 01:45:28.960
Very. It works, it works, it totally fun. It doesn't

1239
01:45:28.960 --> 01:45:31.600
work out of context. But also
Star Trek would not be Star Trek if

1240
01:45:32.359 --> 01:45:45.159
Shatner's theatricality. Yes, what we've
been distractingly doing this the entire time.

1241
01:45:45.880 --> 01:45:51.640
Sorry, it's okay. Just so
you know, listeners of the world,

1242
01:45:51.760 --> 01:45:57.319
I'm gonna say America, but I
know that we have one homie in astronam

1243
01:45:58.159 --> 01:46:03.920
asked and I have a thing in
our like cameras that if you put the

1244
01:46:04.000 --> 01:46:08.239
proper gestures up, it makes like
a little bubble with a thumbs up.

1245
01:46:08.520 --> 01:46:15.279
It'll give you balloons, it'll give
you fireworks like coming down. And every

1246
01:46:15.439 --> 01:46:27.840
single time that Kenny has read a
memo from from a corporate entity, we

1247
01:46:28.079 --> 01:46:32.159
have just been doing that in the
background. I'm sorry, love you,

1248
01:46:32.680 --> 01:46:40.479
love you, Kenny, Please donate
us. Why didn't I get these effects?

1249
01:46:40.600 --> 01:46:43.479
Oh? I got fireworks? Why
do you get the effects? And

1250
01:46:43.560 --> 01:46:47.600
I don't get the effect? They
got new new cameras, new new things,

1251
01:46:49.479 --> 01:46:53.960
all right, lightning round real quick? The red the red marks,

1252
01:46:54.359 --> 01:46:57.960
come on, come on, I
don't I didn't like it. I didn't

1253
01:46:58.039 --> 01:47:00.920
like it the marks. I like
the green marks. I thought that was

1254
01:47:01.039 --> 01:47:03.920
cool, it was clever. I
didn't like the red marks. V for

1255
01:47:04.079 --> 01:47:09.399
Vendetta. That was the thing that
I felt when they was doing the furor

1256
01:47:09.840 --> 01:47:13.520
like thing. It felt very V
for Vendetta. E. If you guys

1257
01:47:13.600 --> 01:47:15.319
remember that, you mean like,
oh, like it was a big screen

1258
01:47:15.439 --> 01:47:19.079
like when there's a big screen thing, and it was not him actually talking,

1259
01:47:19.199 --> 01:47:23.119
which is like something they do in
the movie for V for Vendetta.

1260
01:47:23.800 --> 01:47:30.560
Uh? What else is there?
Right? Uh? That's it? I

1261
01:47:30.640 --> 01:47:32.680
got something else? Oh? Is
that it? No? There was something

1262
01:47:32.720 --> 01:47:38.880
else. Oh? I don't know
why it was that I wrote why can't

1263
01:47:39.000 --> 01:47:43.159
Kirk Look? Does anybody know what
that would be? I don't know what

1264
01:47:43.239 --> 01:47:45.800
I would mean. No, Oh, I did write I love the idea

1265
01:47:45.840 --> 01:47:48.560
and Kenny, I know you're gonna
talk about this, so I'll i'll push

1266
01:47:48.600 --> 01:47:54.760
it to you. I love the
way that they took down the furor or

1267
01:47:54.960 --> 01:47:59.800
like that it was uh, like
you said, it wasn't Kirk coming in

1268
01:47:59.880 --> 01:48:04.560
and punching him. It was them
kind of removing the Wizard of Ossie and

1269
01:48:05.079 --> 01:48:09.319
curtain from it, and then it
being like everybody, even though it was

1270
01:48:09.359 --> 01:48:12.560
a little quick, everybody's like,
well, we've been lied to you this

1271
01:48:12.640 --> 01:48:15.600
whole time. This is all bs. I actually hate that. I hate

1272
01:48:15.640 --> 01:48:18.479
That's my only thing I didn't like
was because it is too simple, like

1273
01:48:19.079 --> 01:48:25.359
because it assumes that the only,
uh, the only thing keeping this going

1274
01:48:25.600 --> 01:48:30.680
was just one man manipulating people as
opposed to praying off of and building up

1275
01:48:30.119 --> 01:48:34.479
real fears that exist within people.
And so the idea that you could just

1276
01:48:34.520 --> 01:48:38.800
be like, well here's the truth
and everyone would be like, oh yeah,

1277
01:48:40.039 --> 01:48:42.199
that's right. And I do think
the episode they are like, we

1278
01:48:42.439 --> 01:48:45.239
need to now continue this work.
Just because we revealed this guy doesn't mean

1279
01:48:45.279 --> 01:48:48.520
that like it's over now. I
think it's quite as studid the episode to

1280
01:48:48.800 --> 01:48:58.039
not lay all the blame on John
Gill but instead this lieutenant. Why this

1281
01:48:58.199 --> 01:49:02.079
episode could have and both are guilty. And also, if this episode were

1282
01:49:02.760 --> 01:49:06.319
worse, there would have just been
one bad d that they would have had

1283
01:49:06.359 --> 01:49:11.600
to dispatch, and it would have
been John gild the disgraced Starkweight scientists,

1284
01:49:11.640 --> 01:49:15.880
And instead it goes, no,
John gil is guilty, he's culpable,

1285
01:49:15.359 --> 01:49:20.119
but also he's a figurehead for this
guy who is manipulating the situation in order

1286
01:49:20.159 --> 01:49:28.960
to get what he wants. And
then in the for an, I find

1287
01:49:29.000 --> 01:49:32.159
it perhaps this is patronizing. I
find it remarkably astute, especially considering the

1288
01:49:32.880 --> 01:49:39.279
whizbang nature of this episode and kind
of the lackluster quality of this second half

1289
01:49:39.319 --> 01:49:44.279
of this season. It could have
been a lot worse, but instead I

1290
01:49:44.840 --> 01:49:50.239
find it just remarkably astute as opposed
to simplistic. I thought it was very

1291
01:49:50.279 --> 01:49:54.760
I mean, I think it's it's
it's thoughtful, and I don't and I

1292
01:49:54.840 --> 01:49:57.920
don't hate it. I think I
do think you're right that it suffers from

1293
01:49:58.079 --> 01:50:00.079
end of the episode itis. Well, I I just think that there's something

1294
01:50:00.119 --> 01:50:06.319
for us to consider in that we
can also very easily blame a populous leader

1295
01:50:06.439 --> 01:50:11.760
or figurehead as opposed to really being
like let's turn internally to be like,

1296
01:50:11.880 --> 01:50:15.520
what is my complicity in this like
that I'm not that I am not only

1297
01:50:15.680 --> 01:50:21.000
or not only just complicit, but
like actively engaging and like, you know,

1298
01:50:21.159 --> 01:50:28.000
hurting other people. That so leads
me into this quote from James Dewan,

1299
01:50:28.039 --> 01:50:31.359
who plays Scotty who fought against the
Axis Armies in World War Two,

1300
01:50:32.479 --> 01:50:36.079
and he said, during this episode, all I could think about was how

1301
01:50:36.239 --> 01:50:41.720
gullible the German people were. They
were sucrated to Hitler, and some of

1302
01:50:41.760 --> 01:50:45.640
them loved it. There will always
be those who appeal to the worst instincts

1303
01:50:45.680 --> 01:50:50.159
in humanity. Yeah, right,
But I almost feel like keeping gullible like

1304
01:50:50.439 --> 01:50:55.720
gets like lets people off easily,
you know what I mean. Like I'm

1305
01:50:55.720 --> 01:50:59.800
gonna I'm gonna take the looking at
it through the lens of just the fact

1306
01:50:59.840 --> 01:51:03.119
that they had this one episode because
I agree with you obviously in a much

1307
01:51:03.520 --> 01:51:09.880
larger sense, they could have done
a lot more to like make that like

1308
01:51:10.039 --> 01:51:15.359
ownership. But I thought the fact
that the girl in there was kind of

1309
01:51:15.479 --> 01:51:19.439
that representative of like we do bad. I don't like this anymore. I'm

1310
01:51:19.479 --> 01:51:23.720
gonna turn I'm gonna flip sides.
Yeah, And the other guy, Enig,

1311
01:51:23.960 --> 01:51:28.680
I'm gonna say his name is Enig
yes at the very end and again

1312
01:51:29.079 --> 01:51:30.520
this is all, this is why
and not like this, it all wrapped

1313
01:51:30.600 --> 01:51:35.039
up so quickly. He has one
line that he says to the rebel without

1314
01:51:35.079 --> 01:51:39.720
a Cause, and he says like, while the rebel press is like,

1315
01:51:40.000 --> 01:51:43.199
now we will now we will work
to you know, we build our society

1316
01:51:43.279 --> 01:51:47.439
whatever he's like, and we shall
help as well, which I think was

1317
01:51:47.600 --> 01:51:53.840
them saying we've got seven seconds to
do this. So that's our version of

1318
01:51:54.159 --> 01:52:00.279
we fucked it up to uh sure, but but I agree that in a

1319
01:52:00.479 --> 01:52:03.840
bigger world it would have been done
better. I just liked that it wasn't

1320
01:52:03.920 --> 01:52:09.000
what Kenny was referring to, which
was Captain Kirk gets in there and says,

1321
01:52:09.319 --> 01:52:11.920
snap out of it, your old
dumb dumb pow yeah, and then

1322
01:52:11.960 --> 01:52:14.880
he and then it's like I'm snapped
out of it and then everything is like

1323
01:52:15.039 --> 01:52:16.920
fine, you know, like and
then he's like, oh, I don't

1324
01:52:17.039 --> 01:52:20.960
I was brain controls or whatever,
what would it could have been. I

1325
01:52:21.199 --> 01:52:26.760
like that it was like, now
that dude had to die because it's dummy.

1326
01:52:27.199 --> 01:52:30.840
Yeah, he made dangerous choices,
made a logical choice. He made

1327
01:52:30.840 --> 01:52:35.720
a very sorry it was very logical, completely logical choice and because of that

1328
01:52:35.880 --> 01:52:42.000
logic, he needed to die right
and then then it would it ended the

1329
01:52:42.039 --> 01:52:44.880
episode. I liked that they were
like, oh no, he needed to

1330
01:52:45.000 --> 01:52:48.319
die, and also we need to
see some demu mode of like these people

1331
01:52:48.560 --> 01:52:53.840
like saying, now we've got to
work together. And then I love it

1332
01:52:53.840 --> 01:53:00.199
at the very end after uh,
Captain Kirk watches his mentor and I will

1333
01:53:00.279 --> 01:53:09.119
die after a culture of society damn
near killed him and also sensibly probably killed

1334
01:53:09.159 --> 01:53:13.840
millions of aliens. Together. They
get on the thing and Bones and Spock

1335
01:53:14.239 --> 01:53:18.359
have a little stat and he says, I listened to we shouldn't have another

1336
01:53:18.720 --> 01:53:23.479
He's whatever. He's like, quiet
down, we don't want another civil war

1337
01:53:23.640 --> 01:53:27.159
on this ship, Dewey, And
they're like, no, you're right,

1338
01:53:27.279 --> 01:53:30.800
and checkouts like let's get out of
here, and they like sip off.

1339
01:53:31.039 --> 01:53:36.119
Yeah yeah. I was like that
is always the perfect Star Trek thing,

1340
01:53:36.479 --> 01:53:44.840
every horribleness and like, oh you
guys, quit it. These bad boys

1341
01:53:45.479 --> 01:53:50.079
classic, Wow, we did it? Do we do it? We did

1342
01:53:50.159 --> 01:53:54.600
it? Well, We're not done. What the fuck? Don't you take

1343
01:53:54.680 --> 01:53:59.199
my walk lighter and climb it?
Don't you take my red schord, buddy?

1344
01:53:59.319 --> 01:54:04.159
And then if you spill the tea. I'm gonna sip it. Starship.

1345
01:54:04.960 --> 01:54:09.319
All right, let's start this.
So what what you gonna do?

1346
01:54:09.760 --> 01:54:12.239
I told you a little bit about
that because I was like, be thinking

1347
01:54:12.239 --> 01:54:15.359
about this. I think I already
know your answers. Uh, We're gonna

1348
01:54:15.399 --> 01:54:19.239
do our favorite starship like the ones
that fly through space, or vehicle or

1349
01:54:19.279 --> 01:54:21.920
favorite vehicle of choice, any kind
of thing. We had to do vehicles

1350
01:54:21.920 --> 01:54:27.119
because he walks it don't have starships, could be any vehicle. And then

1351
01:54:27.159 --> 01:54:31.520
your favorite romantic ship relationship, which
can be anyone and it can be from

1352
01:54:31.680 --> 01:54:38.520
either property or both. Right,
Okay, am I going? This is

1353
01:54:38.640 --> 01:54:45.720
my turn. I we'll start with
the starships. I want to go first

1354
01:54:45.880 --> 01:54:51.039
because I want to take everybody's answer
from them. And it is the Queen

1355
01:54:51.199 --> 01:55:00.520
Ship from the Phantoms spoil Boy.
That is spoil Boy to me, the

1356
01:55:00.680 --> 01:55:05.960
best ship in all all of us
star Wars. I love it so much.

1357
01:55:06.319 --> 01:55:12.680
But also I'm taking this from Kenny
because so it's the Nabu Royal Starship,

1358
01:55:13.279 --> 01:55:15.920
just so you know, it's a
modified J Type three twenty seven Nubian

1359
01:55:15.000 --> 01:55:19.199
starship. So it's a royal starship. Of course, the Queen Amidala crazy

1360
01:55:20.760 --> 01:55:26.720
I know that's a fun and but
it's like Nubian instead of like should have

1361
01:55:26.720 --> 01:55:30.680
been like Nabuoian. You know.
Again, it's like poetry. So if

1362
01:55:30.720 --> 01:55:35.800
they rhyn so it's beautiful. It's
like it's shiny, it's perfection. It

1363
01:55:35.920 --> 01:55:42.079
cuts through the air, through space
like I had back when I was little.

1364
01:55:43.199 --> 01:55:45.279
They I think it was like a
McDonald's toy where you could get this

1365
01:55:45.479 --> 01:55:48.119
in the happy Mail and it would
be one of those things where it would

1366
01:55:48.159 --> 01:55:53.159
balance on your finger, and it
was the Naboo starship. But I just

1367
01:55:53.199 --> 01:55:57.239
sit there with it balanced on my
finger. So I love it. It's

1368
01:55:57.279 --> 01:55:59.640
a gorgeous ship. That's fine.
It is a gorgeus ship. That's a

1369
01:55:59.640 --> 01:56:05.119
beautiful Can I go yes? So
I said, I knew you were going

1370
01:56:05.199 --> 01:56:09.520
to take that ship because you had
said that you were going to take it.

1371
01:56:09.840 --> 01:56:14.800
You are not subtle, and that
is a thing that Kenny likes and

1372
01:56:14.960 --> 01:56:18.680
he's a fan of. So I
was prepared for this, okay. And

1373
01:56:18.960 --> 01:56:28.039
my choice is the Gungan submarine ship
that they all would they have to travel

1374
01:56:28.239 --> 01:56:35.000
through the planet with. And the
reason being that I like this is because

1375
01:56:36.439 --> 01:56:42.239
aside from I think and I may
be right or wrong on this, but

1376
01:56:42.359 --> 01:56:49.119
aside from the the whatever Naboo fighter
ship, which is whatever we see in

1377
01:56:49.159 --> 01:56:53.199
the Mandalorian and all that stuff,
right, I think it's the only other

1378
01:56:53.239 --> 01:56:57.960
one that we physically see them getting
in and out of. And I love

1379
01:56:58.119 --> 01:57:00.720
that like that. It's like an
app it's not a digital thing. It's

1380
01:57:00.760 --> 01:57:04.800
not like a thing when it come
out of the water, when they've come

1381
01:57:04.880 --> 01:57:12.239
through the other side of the planet, Liam Nice Yeah, and the guy

1382
01:57:12.319 --> 01:57:16.880
who should have been Liam Nice Obi
Wan Kenobi come out of that and they

1383
01:57:17.039 --> 01:57:21.000
hang out and they're like hop it
out of this thing. And it was

1384
01:57:21.079 --> 01:57:26.399
so cool to me because it was
real. It was like it fell real

1385
01:57:27.399 --> 01:57:30.119
like the old school ships that we
would see where they would actually have it.

1386
01:57:30.560 --> 01:57:34.079
I might be wrong. I think
I don't think they we see like

1387
01:57:34.159 --> 01:57:38.880
we see them inside of it in
the Queen Ship, but I don't think

1388
01:57:38.920 --> 01:57:43.199
we see it like a big physical
and we see like the little like gangplank.

1389
01:57:44.239 --> 01:57:47.079
But I don't know that we see
them like taptilely messing with it the

1390
01:57:47.159 --> 01:57:50.239
way that they do on the Gungan. I had to just look it up

1391
01:57:50.319 --> 01:57:56.800
right now by the way mark from
Arizona, and it's the Gungan Bungo submarine,

1392
01:57:57.039 --> 01:58:00.039
a bungo. I'm just gonna get
it on a bongo. You get

1393
01:58:00.079 --> 01:58:02.560
a little bunk bell. Yeah,
yeah, calls it. Oh my god.

1394
01:58:02.680 --> 01:58:06.079
They're like, there's sentences that they
said that I didn't know were being

1395
01:58:06.159 --> 01:58:12.600
said until I had something. Nobody
would Nobody would. It's it's so offensive

1396
01:58:12.640 --> 01:58:16.159
that you you shut your ears out
a little little bit just to protect yourself.

1397
01:58:16.640 --> 01:58:20.239
The other one would be the USS
Enterprise, but you know that you

1398
01:58:20.319 --> 01:58:26.039
can't say it. It's already you
can't repeat, which is no Mike Star

1399
01:58:26.079 --> 01:58:30.159
Trek kind of hard because it feels
like, uh, that's a little bit

1400
01:58:30.600 --> 01:58:33.800
biased to Star Wars. But okay, yeah, well it wasn't for a

1401
01:58:33.960 --> 01:58:38.680
long time. Let me tell you, Oh, I have another and I

1402
01:58:38.760 --> 01:58:43.199
really like it too. But to
you, well, I'm glad that neither

1403
01:58:43.239 --> 01:58:46.039
one of you took mine, because
there is one answer, a very clear

1404
01:58:46.199 --> 01:58:50.279
answer, and I'm very glad that
none of you stupid idiots took it.

1405
01:58:50.359 --> 01:58:56.359
It's the Naboo and one star Fighter
you named it, but it wasn't yours.

1406
01:58:58.600 --> 01:59:02.560
It sounds like I would say that
driving the Starfighters a lot like pod

1407
01:59:02.640 --> 01:59:09.399
racing, would you agree, m
No, that is pod racing. It

1408
01:59:09.560 --> 01:59:14.159
is follow up question, have you
tried spinning in it? That is a

1409
01:59:14.319 --> 01:59:17.640
good trick. I've never tried it. I am scared of that. I

1410
01:59:17.680 --> 01:59:24.239
don't like those guys of chicks.
I absolutely love the esthetic that is used

1411
01:59:24.439 --> 01:59:31.880
for Nabu spaceships, marketing back to
the classic perception of spaceships prior to Star

1412
01:59:31.960 --> 01:59:36.239
Awards, which then kind of recategory
well really before two thousand and one,

1413
01:59:36.319 --> 01:59:43.600
which yeah, it started to bring
it more into the industrialized world that we

1414
01:59:43.760 --> 01:59:49.800
used as opposed to these beautiful art
Deco type starships of the Yeah, thirty

1415
01:59:49.880 --> 01:59:55.039
and forty cereals rights and that's what
I heard, like it was all designed

1416
01:59:55.039 --> 01:59:59.079
off of the old thirties and forties
cars that were coming out of that era.

1417
02:00:00.159 --> 02:00:02.199
The sleek look of it, and
it makes total sense. It looks

1418
02:00:02.239 --> 02:00:10.079
great. It's it's absolutely gorgeous,
extremely simple, clean designs. Yeah,

1419
02:00:10.359 --> 02:00:14.840
and then yellow as a starfighter,
what a wild collar pick. It's great.

1420
02:00:15.560 --> 02:00:24.000
But also that goes in tandem with
Lucas's filmography, specifically the Harrison Ford's

1421
02:00:24.199 --> 02:00:32.039
little yellow coop that he drags around
in American A little yellow coop, I

1422
02:00:33.000 --> 02:00:38.279
can I can I throw in a
like a side one just just for funzies,

1423
02:00:38.560 --> 02:00:40.760
just because I'm not gonna put it
well, no, I have to

1424
02:00:40.800 --> 02:00:46.960
put it on spreadsheet. I love
Buba's pod. It's not a ship,

1425
02:00:47.319 --> 02:00:54.239
which is why I didn't use that, but the ship, the speeder,

1426
02:00:55.560 --> 02:01:04.840
the the sound is like I love
the sound of bas pod so much that

1427
02:01:05.239 --> 02:01:09.920
if it was a starship I would
have used that one. You could and

1428
02:01:10.039 --> 02:01:14.640
you could. You could use it
too. We'll cotch. Okay, my

1429
02:01:14.680 --> 02:01:19.239
gosh, so it's the best.
Well, what else do you love?

1430
02:01:19.920 --> 02:01:26.239
I also love romantic ships and I
do have one, and that ship is

1431
02:01:27.600 --> 02:01:30.840
You're gotta do it. You gotta
steal mine. You fucking no, I'm

1432
02:01:30.880 --> 02:01:38.359
not. It's Qui gon jin and
obi wan can Okay, fascinating? Have

1433
02:01:38.439 --> 02:01:40.199
I know? Did I not do
that the last time I did this?

1434
02:01:40.640 --> 02:01:44.800
No, we've got no results,
at least according to the spreadsheets for a

1435
02:01:44.920 --> 02:01:49.479
starship. There's It's not my particular
fan fiction of choice, but there's so

1436
02:01:49.760 --> 02:01:57.199
much fan fiction about these two,
like a clear uh sort of relationship type

1437
02:01:57.239 --> 02:02:02.880
of thing of like, you know, it's great, a mentormentee. I

1438
02:02:03.520 --> 02:02:10.720
just want to throw it out there
as an ideal ship. It's okay,

1439
02:02:11.199 --> 02:02:16.439
pass it all. That's where a
why going. Okay, I need it

1440
02:02:16.680 --> 02:02:19.359
for some reason. I thought you
would have taken this. No, my

1441
02:02:19.680 --> 02:02:29.920
ship that I am shipping on,
the Starship Enterprise, is inank and the

1442
02:02:30.079 --> 02:02:39.399
rebel without a cause himself. Iack
those huge leader boys coming together working late

1443
02:02:39.560 --> 02:02:45.640
nights to figure out out as resolve
the dirty civil war that they had just

1444
02:02:45.760 --> 02:02:48.960
embraced. They hated each other at
first, they were mortal enemies, but

1445
02:02:49.079 --> 02:02:55.960
then they realized they had been incorrect
this whole time, and they realized that

1446
02:02:56.039 --> 02:03:00.760
their mission and goal is to build
up the Xeon's and the other ones that

1447
02:03:01.159 --> 02:03:05.479
getting made up the name of enemy
still lovers, Yes, and I think

1448
02:03:05.680 --> 02:03:13.439
those two together are the true relationship
of Star Trek. That's what it's all

1449
02:03:13.439 --> 02:03:16.319
about. It's not about It's not
about sassy bones and spot bullshit. Yes

1450
02:03:16.399 --> 02:03:19.920
it is. It's about No,
it's I'm tired of it. Okay,

1451
02:03:20.000 --> 02:03:24.359
I'm tired of the negging. You're
tired of it. This is your first

1452
02:03:24.399 --> 02:03:29.279
episode the spot sick, all right. The only time I like to neg

1453
02:03:29.479 --> 02:03:32.720
is when I'm watching Rogue one and
I'm browing out with my bros and I'm

1454
02:03:32.760 --> 02:03:36.119
looking at a girl walking by the
say you're not as pretty as you think

1455
02:03:36.199 --> 02:03:43.560
you are. Rogue One's a war
movie. That's it. That's it.

1456
02:03:43.760 --> 02:03:49.000
So okay, rebel without a cause
and Enig the rebel with the cause.

1457
02:03:49.199 --> 02:03:58.439
Yeah, Palpatine and Mal see another
mentor men see relationship. I think that's

1458
02:03:58.479 --> 02:04:01.359
a toxic relationship. Guys, both
of you. That's leadership. You act

1459
02:04:01.560 --> 02:04:05.800
like Maul doesn't like to be carted
around on a little all the time,

1460
02:04:08.520 --> 02:04:13.680
or she she could be the one
of the leads. It's make no mistake,

1461
02:04:13.920 --> 02:04:17.760
is very consensual, and it is
very rough. Yeah, listen,

1462
02:04:18.079 --> 02:04:24.079
chips can be whatever you want them
to. That's why we have little trigger

1463
02:04:24.159 --> 02:04:27.880
warnings before things like non con and
stuff. All right, I'll give you.

1464
02:04:28.000 --> 02:04:30.880
I mean, y'all have your opinions. I think there's a reason that

1465
02:04:31.199 --> 02:04:35.640
Mall is so good with that double
bladed lightsaber. You talk about some of

1466
02:04:35.760 --> 02:04:40.920
that's good with a pole. Oh
you're getting dirty, you're getting dirty.

1467
02:04:42.479 --> 02:04:46.640
I don't like that. I like
it. Say more about it. He

1468
02:04:46.760 --> 02:04:51.800
says, it's slower and deeper.
He sings out. Probes, God,

1469
02:04:53.720 --> 02:04:59.560
I don't know if that was deeper. He gets cut in half. He

1470
02:04:59.640 --> 02:05:03.760
gets I love it. Here's my
thoughts on it. Here's why I think

1471
02:05:03.800 --> 02:05:10.920
it's a little toxic. Okay,
She instantly bounces to a new one in

1472
02:05:11.199 --> 02:05:15.479
milliseconds. He's got a dooku in
the back room ready to go for whenever.

1473
02:05:15.640 --> 02:05:20.079
That mall is spitting half and it's
just not I feel like we's got

1474
02:05:20.119 --> 02:05:28.600
a venturess that he can just dump. But that's for the future. Okay,

1475
02:05:29.199 --> 02:05:30.600
all right, we did it.
We got one more thing we gotta

1476
02:05:30.640 --> 02:05:35.600
do. Did you know the song
from Joel No? I wish I know

1477
02:05:36.239 --> 02:05:43.119
it is time to bring this ship
back into the dock or to the hangar.

1478
02:05:43.119 --> 02:05:50.800
If we're going by dock stuff you
dirty birdy, stop dorking, get

1479
02:05:50.880 --> 02:05:57.359
out of here, sit down,
sit down, or speaking of dirty birds,

1480
02:05:57.399 --> 02:06:02.720
I think we need to go back
to the original conceded this podcast,

1481
02:06:03.199 --> 02:06:10.640
which is better Star Trek or Star
Wars as we rank again once again Star

1482
02:06:10.720 --> 02:06:14.920
Trek the original series patterns of fours
versus Star Wars Episode one, The Phantom

1483
02:06:15.520 --> 02:06:18.399
Menace. So Michael, just so
you know, it's out of ten zero

1484
02:06:18.479 --> 02:06:25.520
to ten, okay, and you
can give like it's like points, like

1485
02:06:25.600 --> 02:06:29.600
it could be like six point three, eight point nine, Like you can

1486
02:06:29.680 --> 02:06:31.079
do it that way. It doesn't
have to just be like a round number.

1487
02:06:31.720 --> 02:06:35.319
Got it, so you can be
as grand so excited for the points

1488
02:06:35.359 --> 02:06:40.600
system I hate I like it,
right, but I did like getting to

1489
02:06:40.720 --> 02:06:47.079
be more thoughtful about it. Yeah, demonstrate? Oh no to demonstraight,

1490
02:06:47.279 --> 02:06:50.760
I have to demonstraight? Okay?
Which one am I starting with phantom menace?

1491
02:06:51.359 --> 02:06:56.159
Sure? What have I given it
before? I think I've given it

1492
02:06:56.319 --> 02:07:00.600
like a six before six something?
According to the spread, you've given it

1493
02:07:00.680 --> 02:07:05.199
a six point five. That's like
still true for me? All right?

1494
02:07:05.560 --> 02:07:10.800
Once again? Maybe a six point
four four? It dropped this time.

1495
02:07:10.920 --> 02:07:14.920
Wait a minute, so even after
I convinced you that Obi Wan should have

1496
02:07:15.000 --> 02:07:17.159
been the Qui Gon character, you're
still at its mass. That's why it

1497
02:07:17.199 --> 02:07:24.800
drops the point when a lot of
work I put into that for a point

1498
02:07:24.960 --> 02:07:33.199
of dot yeah talking doing all right, do you want to be pad a

1499
02:07:33.359 --> 02:07:46.680
force or so? I am going
to rank it for a point seven because

1500
02:07:46.800 --> 02:07:57.279
like it's not good like kind of
you know I I have been trying to

1501
02:07:57.319 --> 02:08:01.960
give it some grace. This movie
I really have in the sense of like

1502
02:08:01.640 --> 02:08:07.239
I can see why a person would
love it when they this is the first

1503
02:08:07.239 --> 02:08:09.399
Star Wars they were seen. I
could see why there's parts of it like

1504
02:08:11.159 --> 02:08:13.960
again, the pot race is always
so fun. The sound is beautiful,

1505
02:08:15.600 --> 02:08:20.720
the imagery is really fun. But
then you know there's jar jar yeah,

1506
02:08:22.199 --> 02:08:30.319
and there's you know, really dry
dead dialogue that is really hard to listen

1507
02:08:30.399 --> 02:08:35.199
to. No offense to the kid. I know Jack Lloyd got a lot

1508
02:08:35.279 --> 02:08:39.600
of hate for this, but if
you just watched the film absent of the

1509
02:08:41.920 --> 02:08:45.840
minutia around it, you're like,
this isn't a good kid actor, and

1510
02:08:45.960 --> 02:08:48.560
this is not a good you know, director, like you were saying,

1511
02:08:48.640 --> 02:08:54.079
Kenny. So it's tough for me
to give this movie grease after all this

1512
02:08:54.239 --> 02:09:03.840
year. So I give it a
ten ten point nine, say ten point

1513
02:09:03.920 --> 02:09:13.760
nine, with Michael's ten point nine, asked the six point four and my

1514
02:09:13.840 --> 02:09:18.880
four point seven. That gives us
a collective total of seven points. Good

1515
02:09:20.000 --> 02:09:24.439
job, Phantom, good movie.
That's a that's a that's a reasonably good

1516
02:09:24.479 --> 02:09:30.960
movie. Better than got Father three. I do it was I was thinking

1517
02:09:31.039 --> 02:09:35.920
about how if, if, like
what not to go off? I don't

1518
02:09:35.920 --> 02:09:37.680
want to go down a rabbit hole
on this. I give it. I

1519
02:09:37.760 --> 02:09:39.079
give it a two point eight already
put ten point nine? Ten oh,

1520
02:09:39.199 --> 02:09:46.039
thanks two point eight? Is it
a ten point nine or two point eight?

1521
02:09:46.079 --> 02:09:48.199
Which one do you want ten point
nine? It's ten point all right?

1522
02:09:52.000 --> 02:09:54.680
An agent of chaos truly. I
was thinking, like, what would

1523
02:09:54.720 --> 02:10:01.119
it look like if someone like Spielberg
had directed Jake Floyd, Like if it

1524
02:10:01.159 --> 02:10:07.079
would have been a bad performance,
like someone who's really good, I think

1525
02:10:07.119 --> 02:10:11.279
it would have been. I think
Spielberg has the wherewithal to recalibrate something based

1526
02:10:11.319 --> 02:10:18.199
on an actor's strengths, right,
Yeah, and I think I don't know,

1527
02:10:18.800 --> 02:10:24.039
give Jake Lloyd more physicality, more
looking at things, yeah, more

1528
02:10:24.159 --> 02:10:30.640
like also like there's like even calls
out that, like his emotional scenes with

1529
02:10:30.720 --> 02:10:35.319
his mother are actually really beautiful.
Yeah, but then in others he kind

1530
02:10:35.359 --> 02:10:37.600
of would fall flat, and so
it's yeah, like pay attention to those

1531
02:10:37.640 --> 02:10:43.119
things. Yeah. But Lucas just
doesn't have that because for him, actors

1532
02:10:43.159 --> 02:10:48.800
have always been a means to an
end ever since HX one with three eight.

1533
02:10:48.640 --> 02:10:52.720
Yeah, but we're not talking about
George Lucas anymore. We're talking about

1534
02:10:52.720 --> 02:11:01.079
Patters of Forest and Aspen. Yeah. Hmmm mm hmm, seven point six,

1535
02:11:01.279 --> 02:11:07.920
seven point say, why not excellent? I've said a lot. I

1536
02:11:09.119 --> 02:11:11.760
liked it, yeah, and I
thought it was really solid. I think

1537
02:11:11.760 --> 02:11:15.960
it's very present. I think you
know, unlike sometimes things really emotionally hit

1538
02:11:16.039 --> 02:11:18.840
me. I don't know. Also, maybe if it were in a different

1539
02:11:18.039 --> 02:11:20.279
part, like if it were in
a different season or be like, you

1540
02:11:20.359 --> 02:11:24.800
know, it's been kind of bluff
so far, and maybe this stands out

1541
02:11:24.039 --> 02:11:26.439
really well. So that's why I'm
like giving a little bit higher than I

1542
02:11:26.479 --> 02:11:31.079
would have maybe in the context of
another series, you know, so like

1543
02:11:31.199 --> 02:11:35.560
series of episodes. But that's what
I'm feeling right now. I'm going to

1544
02:11:35.600 --> 02:11:37.720
give this episode an eight. I
think it's a great episode of Star Trek.

1545
02:11:37.800 --> 02:11:43.159
Yeah. Uh, it just is. Maybe it's great. It's thoughtful,

1546
02:11:43.840 --> 02:11:46.840
yeah, yeah, it gives me
all the Star Trek things that I

1547
02:11:46.920 --> 02:11:52.039
want. The chemistry he's unreal between
Kirk AND's Bock and this episode, so

1548
02:11:52.880 --> 02:11:58.359
it's outstanding. Yeah, you're right, Michael, Yeah, yeah, okay,

1549
02:11:58.439 --> 02:12:03.600
excuse me, Okay, I like
what you're saying. And for me,

1550
02:12:03.680 --> 02:12:09.119
since this was my first like original
series episode, I really genuinely anything

1551
02:12:09.159 --> 02:12:13.640
could happen right now. It's true. I really, I really dug the

1552
02:12:13.960 --> 02:12:20.279
I dug the vibe of it.
It felt like what I had hoped an

1553
02:12:20.439 --> 02:12:24.359
original series episode would be, which
is a little bit of kitsch, a

1554
02:12:24.439 --> 02:12:31.079
little bit of like bad costuming,
a little bit of clear sets, but

1555
02:12:31.279 --> 02:12:33.960
a little bit of like we're trying
our best to send a message in nineteen

1556
02:12:35.079 --> 02:12:39.119
sixty whatever, what ear was it, Kenny sixty sixty eight. And it's

1557
02:12:39.199 --> 02:12:46.159
like, so I love that,
I loved William Shatter. I'm all in.

1558
02:12:46.960 --> 02:12:50.840
That is my captain from now on. He is, he is,

1559
02:12:52.479 --> 02:12:54.960
I am on the I'm on the
ship. And you know that moment where

1560
02:12:56.000 --> 02:13:01.800
the Somalian says I'm the captain.
Now, I wouldn't say it. I'd

1561
02:13:01.840 --> 02:13:05.319
say you're still the captain to the
Captain Kirk. I'm not saying I'm a

1562
02:13:05.359 --> 02:13:07.079
Similian. I'm not saying I'm gonna
take over shit. I'm just saying,

1563
02:13:07.279 --> 02:13:13.000
if that scenario was in somehow me
gonna deliver that line, I would have

1564
02:13:13.079 --> 02:13:16.600
said, you're still the captain,
mister Kirk, you are great at this

1565
02:13:16.760 --> 02:13:22.359
sounds like something a pirate would say. Well, yeah, that's funny that

1566
02:13:22.439 --> 02:13:26.840
you say that, because I'm about
to take away some doaballoons. Because I

1567
02:13:28.479 --> 02:13:33.840
didn't think Spock was great. I
didn't like I loved Spock, and I

1568
02:13:33.920 --> 02:13:37.439
didn't like him. I didn't think
his logical shit was fucking logical. I

1569
02:13:37.560 --> 02:13:43.119
didn't think his skinny body got me
hot in my loins, and I didn't

1570
02:13:43.159 --> 02:13:48.079
want it. If I want hot
my loins, I want him eating a

1571
02:13:48.239 --> 02:13:58.039
sandwich or two prior to set.
I want him to give me less attitudes

1572
02:13:58.119 --> 02:14:03.239
sometimes and then give me a whole
hot mess of that dirty looks on the

1573
02:14:03.319 --> 02:14:07.720
side eye. It is going to
happen. So here's here's my thoughts on

1574
02:14:07.800 --> 02:14:09.920
it. Here honestly, honest,
score, honest Huh, here we go.

1575
02:14:11.199 --> 02:14:15.880
Uh it was it win to ten? Huh? You could rank it

1576
02:14:15.920 --> 02:14:20.479
a zero if you want to.
Yeah, Okay, I give it seven.

1577
02:14:22.760 --> 02:14:26.880
Uh, hail fearers, it's not
I can't put that on this shot.

1578
02:14:26.960 --> 02:14:28.520
You can't put another thing. No, it's got to be a number.

1579
02:14:30.039 --> 02:14:33.359
Okay, I can't put seven fars
that seven is a but that's a

1580
02:14:33.399 --> 02:14:37.359
completely usually it's like a point system. Okay, seven hers, that's a

1581
02:14:37.399 --> 02:14:39.760
whole new ranking system. I apologize, and I look, I can test

1582
02:14:39.960 --> 02:14:46.439
the spreadsheets already really involved. I
give it nine red last sheets. That's

1583
02:14:46.520 --> 02:14:50.039
not again, that's a brand new
spreadsheet that going to happen. It's got

1584
02:14:50.199 --> 02:14:54.159
to be based on the pre existing
it's got to be nine points. I

1585
02:14:54.239 --> 02:14:58.720
can do points I can do seven
points. We can give you points and

1586
02:14:58.800 --> 02:15:03.439
that's about it. That's it,
all right. I give it three transponders.

1587
02:15:03.600 --> 02:15:07.279
That's not I can't do that.
I converted, all right. I

1588
02:15:07.359 --> 02:15:11.039
give it all right. I give
it one, John Gil, that doesn't

1589
02:15:11.159 --> 02:15:15.680
make sense what you're saying. He
is the fure, he is the future.

1590
02:15:16.000 --> 02:15:18.840
I can't give it. I give
it an. I give it about.

1591
02:15:18.560 --> 02:15:22.039
I give it a. I give
it. I don't know. I

1592
02:15:22.199 --> 02:15:24.640
liked it. I liked it.
I do it. Listen to your heart,

1593
02:15:24.840 --> 02:15:28.079
I liked it. I give it
a. I give it a nine

1594
02:15:28.680 --> 02:15:35.199
point eight, incredible, nine point
eight. You truly do love to say

1595
02:15:35.239 --> 02:15:41.600
it. I'm gonna raise mine a
little bit seven point eight because I was.

1596
02:15:41.079 --> 02:15:45.119
I was so fresh to this and
it was so fun to watch that

1597
02:15:45.239 --> 02:15:48.960
I genuinely did not think I would
want to watch this, and I did.

1598
02:15:48.159 --> 02:15:52.159
I'm having I'm so delighted. The
last time someone who had really not

1599
02:15:52.319 --> 02:15:56.960
watched a lot watch had to watch
had to watch a startic episode. I

1600
02:15:56.000 --> 02:15:58.399
think it was Heidi. She was
just like, I fucking hate it.

1601
02:16:01.000 --> 02:16:03.159
I mean, it could have been
the episode. It could an episode of

1602
02:16:03.159 --> 02:16:09.199
prior, could have been a different
story. But it was Galley of seven,

1603
02:16:09.319 --> 02:16:13.119
a classic episode of Star Trek.
It was really good. Oh no,

1604
02:16:15.600 --> 02:16:18.920
what did they give it? Then
gave it a five? Which to

1605
02:16:20.159 --> 02:16:22.079
fair Looking at these rankings, all
three of us were kind of low on

1606
02:16:22.199 --> 02:16:26.439
it. Well that's also this is
like I feel like we go through waves

1607
02:16:26.600 --> 02:16:31.279
of how we like prefer to these
things. Yeah, because to give it

1608
02:16:31.359 --> 02:16:33.959
one Gill Gill, and I feel
that's like maximum numbers. Okay, So

1609
02:16:35.079 --> 02:16:39.319
according to okay, if nine point
eight is Michael's score, that means that

1610
02:16:39.479 --> 02:16:43.280
one John Gill is equal to nine
point eight points. So now there's a

1611
02:16:43.360 --> 02:16:46.920
conversion system that I can work off
of. Kenny, what's the what's the

1612
02:16:48.239 --> 02:16:52.479
what's the score? Who won?
Who was? Uh? Speaking of scoring,

1613
02:16:52.559 --> 02:16:58.159
I think both all three of us
scored with both properties tackling the encroaching

1614
02:16:58.520 --> 02:17:05.360
UH tendrils that are the rise of
fascism. Yes, both of these properties

1615
02:17:05.399 --> 02:17:09.879
are examining the rise of fascism,
the complications that resolve in vastly different ways.

1616
02:17:09.319 --> 02:17:16.479
America. There's nothing more American than
ranking two things and so too Wurst

1617
02:17:16.479 --> 02:17:20.280
episode one, with a collect a
total of seven point three three versus Pantas

1618
02:17:20.319 --> 02:17:28.440
of Forces Aggressive eight point five three, which means Kenny and Star Trek have

1619
02:17:28.680 --> 02:17:39.239
won the weeks. I'm a lis
there baby, So why don't you and

1620
02:17:39.319 --> 02:17:43.120
I didn't even know that you guys
were battling in this way? And I

1621
02:17:43.360 --> 02:17:46.280
love it. Yeah, I'm so
happy that you guys are battling and I

1622
02:17:46.479 --> 02:17:52.319
try to bump up Phantom Menace for
you. I appreciate it. I had

1623
02:17:52.360 --> 02:17:56.120
to answer truthfully for what it's worth. Last time we did Phantom Menace,

1624
02:17:56.159 --> 02:18:00.520
it was versus Star Trek, the
motion picture and the phantomnas one. Yeah,

1625
02:18:00.639 --> 02:18:03.799
and I can see that. I
agree with that. I ranked Phantom

1626
02:18:03.840 --> 02:18:05.559
Menace higher than the motion picture on
that. Yes, I agree with it.

1627
02:18:07.680 --> 02:18:11.760
The motion picture a classic sleepy time
honkshoo king movie for me back in

1628
02:18:11.840 --> 02:18:16.360
high school, honkshoo me me.
So there you go. We did it.

1629
02:18:16.120 --> 02:18:22.440
We we certainly did. But even
though with this gargantulaly sized episode,

1630
02:18:22.520 --> 02:18:26.959
certainly this isn't the end of Trek
Wars, not nearly by a long shot.

1631
02:18:26.639 --> 02:18:30.559
Uh. If you want even more, you could listen to an extended

1632
02:18:30.680 --> 02:18:35.559
version of this very episode even longer
here on trek War. You could hop

1633
02:18:35.600 --> 02:18:41.840
over to patreon dot com slash Trak
Wars Pod, where we do communicate with

1634
02:18:41.000 --> 02:18:46.319
our listeners, and we've got a
little bit of correspondence this week, Oh

1635
02:18:46.440 --> 02:18:54.000
from the fondly named here Too for
now Arizona. Mark Mark Vibert co hosted

1636
02:18:54.079 --> 02:18:58.639
the Hold Home Maneuver in regards to
our return of the Jedi Special Edition versus

1637
02:18:58.760 --> 02:19:03.440
Return to Tomorrow episode uh. Mark
asks the question have either of us ever

1638
02:19:03.559 --> 02:19:09.120
read Animorphs because he kept thinking about
the years during our discussion of aliens that

1639
02:19:09.280 --> 02:19:16.200
take over the mind? Now read
Animorphs? Yes, history with the Animals

1640
02:19:16.280 --> 02:19:18.399
franchise. I actually I haven't really
read them. Maybe I read one,

1641
02:19:18.440 --> 02:19:24.920
but I would watch the show and
I am deathly terrified of the idea of

1642
02:19:24.000 --> 02:19:28.239
anything going into my brain, it
through my ear and taking me over because

1643
02:19:28.280 --> 02:19:33.399
of Anamorphs, and absolutely terrified.
Interesting take. I've also, I've watched

1644
02:19:33.399 --> 02:19:41.879
it. My favorite is Wacko.
No, that's Animaniacs. Oh, drastically

1645
02:19:41.959 --> 02:19:46.040
different. That's a very different property. I remember when Tobias turned into a

1646
02:19:46.079 --> 02:19:50.879
hawk and then he stayed a hawk
too long? Yeah, it happened,

1647
02:19:50.200 --> 02:19:54.159
and so he just became a hawk. So he just became a hawk and

1648
02:19:54.239 --> 02:19:56.600
later on, yeah, yeah,
later on he could like kind of turn

1649
02:19:56.680 --> 02:20:01.200
back into a guy. It was
the whole thing, yes, and so

1650
02:20:01.479 --> 02:20:05.639
thank you for that. Arizona Mark. We love you Mark, who is

1651
02:20:05.719 --> 02:20:11.040
also running the Whole Do Maneuver Imperial
March Bracket Imperial March Madness Bracket over on

1652
02:20:11.120 --> 02:20:15.600
their YouTube channel. I helped see
that it is true chaos over there,

1653
02:20:16.000 --> 02:20:20.600
true and it is so much fun. You can go just look up the

1654
02:20:20.639 --> 02:20:26.239
Whole Do Maneuver podcast on YouTube,
and if you're interested in free episodes or

1655
02:20:26.280 --> 02:20:31.280
at free episodes this very podcast,
hop over to patreon dot com slash track

1656
02:20:31.319 --> 02:20:35.799
coarse pot and you too could join
the auspices of fine folks such as Timbo

1657
02:20:35.920 --> 02:20:39.799
De Sosa and Emilie Brice, Love, Heidi Rogers, Kevin Miller, Arizona,

1658
02:20:39.879 --> 02:20:45.200
Mark right Hill, Aaron Science and
lastly, but certainly not Leasley Joelty

1659
02:20:45.399 --> 02:20:50.159
Partner who wrote our starship at Jingle. Thank you so much, Joelty Partner.

1660
02:20:50.200 --> 02:20:54.440
We love you, honey. We
can't wait for dinner. I hope

1661
02:20:54.479 --> 02:20:58.159
that's on the table for us.
It's so there's some He brought me back

1662
02:20:58.200 --> 02:21:03.799
some fries. I made myself some
eggs, and Joel just looks at you

1663
02:21:03.959 --> 02:21:07.600
with like a mouthful of fries,
and he was like, go a hole

1664
02:21:07.680 --> 02:21:16.079
grou so it's like a half half
filled thing of cold fries. Oh sorry,

1665
02:21:16.600 --> 02:21:20.079
Joel is so nice, But at
the same time I want him to

1666
02:21:20.200 --> 02:21:24.680
be like I say this not as
a pejoritya because it was his descriptor the

1667
02:21:24.760 --> 02:21:28.239
fat friend from the first three episode
of Droids who was just like the biggest

1668
02:21:28.319 --> 02:21:33.879
guns. It's pretty great. It's
pretty great. Uh and Jolty partner is

1669
02:21:33.879 --> 02:21:37.159
pretty great. Uh. Someone else
said it is also pretty great. Is

1670
02:21:37.239 --> 02:21:39.799
mister Tosin Ali Faso, who wrote
our Trek Wars theme song, Thank you

1671
02:21:39.959 --> 02:21:45.639
so much? Uh, the usual
calls to action at the end of many

1672
02:21:45.680 --> 02:21:50.559
podcast episodes. If you haven't done
so already, please leave us a five

1673
02:21:50.639 --> 02:21:54.479
star rating by hopping over to trek
warspod dot com, clicking on the reviews

1674
02:21:54.559 --> 02:21:58.799
tab, and going to the podcatcher
of your choice. We try and make

1675
02:21:58.879 --> 02:22:05.600
it easy, honey. We care
about We love you. We just want

1676
02:22:05.639 --> 02:22:09.239
to much like Michael's relationship to Leonard
meamemway, we just want to make sure

1677
02:22:09.280 --> 02:22:13.360
that you're eating enough. That's truly
it. I feel like a yenta like

1678
02:22:13.440 --> 02:22:16.440
it was just like, do you
need a little bit more before you leave?

1679
02:22:18.239 --> 02:22:22.120
Because you need like a soup or
something. I don't know, So

1680
02:22:22.040 --> 02:22:28.520
yeah, Michael, do you have
stuff? Yes? Do you want to?

1681
02:22:28.680 --> 02:22:31.479
Like? Oh? Boy? Do? I? Okay, so here

1682
02:22:31.559 --> 02:22:37.920
we go. Uh. First off, watch Animatacs the season one and season

1683
02:22:37.959 --> 02:22:41.079
two. It's solid gold. Also, if you're out there and you're busy,

1684
02:22:41.840 --> 02:22:46.239
but you have some like just like
background stuff you want to listen to.

1685
02:22:46.959 --> 02:22:50.840
I think you should totally watch Legends
of the Hidden Temple. It is

1686
02:22:50.079 --> 02:22:54.000
so fun. Do you just sit
there and do you watch these kids fumbling

1687
02:22:54.079 --> 02:23:01.000
and fumbling? No other projects you
participate with regularly that you could use this

1688
02:23:01.159 --> 02:23:05.239
platform? Yeah? Yeah, But
also no, no, no, no,

1689
02:23:05.479 --> 02:23:07.840
no, I don't do anything of
value. You don't do this is

1690
02:23:07.239 --> 02:23:11.600
This is the This is the most
this is the most valuable thing I've ever

1691
02:23:11.680 --> 02:23:16.120
done. This is it. This
is truly the height. I finally have

1692
02:23:16.319 --> 02:23:22.280
proven that Phantom Menace is worse than
a random episode. It's math, it's

1693
02:23:22.360 --> 02:23:28.719
science, it's logical. Michael,
thank you so much for hopping on board

1694
02:23:28.879 --> 02:23:35.079
the It was the best three hours
of my life. I know. And

1695
02:23:35.760 --> 02:23:41.399
Kenny, now you be gone and
you clean up that dirty microphone covered in

1696
02:23:41.559 --> 02:23:54.680
your own Jedi music. I like
this sounds like it's time Michael, I

1697
02:23:54.840 --> 02:24:00.040
love you, I love you too. What else do I say? I

1698
02:24:00.319 --> 02:24:01.959
love I love you so much,
Ketty, I love you so much.

1699
02:24:03.120 --> 02:24:07.000
You need to unpack that with your
therapist later. Aspen. I love you,

1700
02:24:07.600 --> 02:24:11.440
I love you, I love Michael
too. I love you. Guys,

1701
02:24:13.000 --> 02:24:15.920
Audience, we sincerely love you.
Thank you so much for listening.

1702
02:24:16.600 --> 02:24:22.040
UH and Aspra always live long and
prosper, and may the Force be with

1703
02:24:22.200 --> 02:24:24.280
you. S