Star Wars: Episode III - Revenge of the Sith vs. Bread and Circuses

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Welcome to the Track Wars podcast.
The podcast that tears to answered the one

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question, the most important question fandom, which is better Star Wars or Star

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Trek by going through both franchises in
chronological police order and today the saga concludes

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as we talk about Star Wars episode
three, Revenge of the Sith Versus Brendon,

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circuses the penultimate episode in Star Trek
the original series, season two.

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I am Kenny Madison, the Star
Trek conting is with me. As Per

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always is the girl host with the
my house. It's me Aspen Webster,

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the Star Wars fish. I'm not
now No one should ever. No,

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I don't know why I said that. Everyone's gonna be like, you don't

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know that guy was on because she
who was head sitting behind a boulder.

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I'll be like, what I mean, you know who embarrassed Ophie is and

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that's an edge up on me,
Aspen. Oh well, that's why we

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make fun of you the royal way, my friends. That's weird. You're

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talking about podcast with other people.
Uh huh oh, my girl, I'm

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like, oh, was like on
the podcast? Can he doesn't know this

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character he's literally never met? Isn't
that so embarrassing, like, oh my

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god, oh no, it wasn't
on corne Wars. Yeah, actually you

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should know Bears. Yep, she
is she, She and Luminar are Indeed,

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they're the ones that get they have
to be rescued there in the the

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temple that gets brought down. Yeah. Wow, turntables have turned. Yeah,

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it sounds like you should be embarrassed
for not knowing. You should be

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ambarrassed. But please don't throw me
to the gladiators in the TV studio arena

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has just yet asked been We've got
too much show to get to. Oh

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whoa, whoa, whoa whoa?
Oh, whoa whoa? Did you know

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at the end of the episode Bred
and Circuses that I just watched just a

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few hours ago, and the very
last line of the episode, I went,

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excellent, wonderful, That's exactly what
I wanted. I just walked in.

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Wait wait, wait, why did
you just walk in? Joel?

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You never do this? Oh no, you want to speak into the microphone,

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Joel, Oh I never do this. Oh my god, I can't

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hear you kidding. I'm sorry,
I can't hear you, but it just

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occurred to me. Maybe I'll already
mention this Why the fuck do they speak

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English? Hey? Wait, you
can talk now, Giddy, you can

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hear you. Uh. First off, my heart is racing at the fact

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that a Jolty partner is here.
Hold on, I gotta you gotta do

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the sound effect real quick, making
his yearly appearance on the main feed,

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which I'm pretty pleased with. The
reason that they talk English is because no

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one ever points it out unless they
do. They do in the episode does

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He's like, oh my god,
they speak English, Joel, you did

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let me finish hunting? Okay,
sorry, sorry, because no one asked

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that question until Gene Coon is like, yeah, why do they uh speak

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English all the time? Except that
the show has canonically answered that there's a

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universal translator that just exists. Yeah, it's already answered the question. But

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then sometimes this stupid show that is
my favorite thing on the planet, it

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was just like, huh, they're
talking English. No one's asking your question?

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All right, Yeah, does that
answer your question? To your satisfaction,

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a mister t partner, it answers
my question. I am not satisfied.

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Interesting, how are there any other
clarifications that can Why are they answering

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English? Because it's it's it's a
freaking fantasy. What do you want.

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There's no in universe reason why they
would be, is all I'm saying.

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Because everything's printed in English in the
episode as well in the magazines. Oh

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and they applause buttons, and they'll
like the cheers and cheers and the everything's

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in English. Well, I guess
they'd have the Roman alphabet and even the

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pun at the end, Son and
Son is in fucking English. Bi.

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Yeah, okay, sorry for breaking
in. Goodbye, always going Chell,

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talk to you again this time next
year. I love you, Kenny,

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love you too, Buddy behind,
I love you, of course, I

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love you. That was joelty partner
who you can last listen to on our

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Stargate SG one versus Battlestar Glogica episode
around April three was April Fools. Just

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the other day, he was like, I'm so sorry I didn't do another

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April Fools episode this year. I'm
just a little stressed. I was like,

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oh no, you're it's fine,
buddy, It's okay, thank you.

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So yeah, that's good. That's
a good cameo. That is a

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good cameo. It's it's extremely satisfying. I thought he was coming in to

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be like you stole that. I
yelled boo, and I was like,

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you sure did yell boo? And
then I also yelled boo, but he

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did yelpoo first. I will give
him that credit. But what else is

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satisfying is catching up with people that
play the home game, the people that,

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oh don't can't afford to come to
the live shows. Can't afford That's

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right, it is payapling. So
we provide synopsis for folks I might not

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be watching along with the content as
when would you do us the favor of

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reading us? The synopsis for Star
Wars episode three, Revenge of the Revenge

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of the Sith, which was directed, of course by one George Lucas and

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written by one George Lucas. Uh, this is funny. There's like a

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character creation thing whatever. It's written
by George Lucas, for better or worse.

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It was released May nineteenth, two
thousand and five. Yeah, so,

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and let's get a little bit of
a synapsis here. Nearly three years

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have passed since the beginning of the
Clone Wars. The Republic, with the

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help of the Jedi, take on
Count Dooku and the Separatists with a new

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threat rising, The Jedi Council sends
Obi Wan, Kenobi and Anakin Skywalker to

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aid the captured Chancellor, who we, as you might recall, saw captured

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at the end of Clone Wars.
All right, yes, I was like,

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did he get effectually captured? All
I remember is griev Is getting tied

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to a train. Ah. Yes, he was captured at the end of

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the Colon Wars. This goes right
into it. Anakin feels he's ready to

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be promoted to Jedi Master. Obi
Wan is hunting down the separatist general Grievous.

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When Anakin has future visions of pain
and suffering coming Padme's way, he

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sees he seeks master Yoda for council. This is badly written. When's our

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City of Executes Order sixty six?
A des choice? I have to read

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it different, Like what are you
talking about? Ah? Sorry, I

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don't like this. I should have
I should have done this before. I'll

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just keep reading it. Everybody knows
how this movie goes. No, no,

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no, find another one, find
another one. No, I'm gonna

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I'm gonna do it. No,
I'm gonna I'm gonna do it. So

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he starts seeing future visions of pain
and suffering coming Padme's way, seeks Master

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Yoda for counsel Aspen's commentary, who
gives him a shitty fucking answer. Fuck

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Yoda anyway. So all this time, of course, Palpatine, who we

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know to be Dark Citius, is
getting his plans together. He is able

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to bring Anakin over to the dark
Side by telling him that he could save

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Pat's life, and ultimately he as
Darth Cidius, executes Order sixty six,

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which is uh, kills all the
Jedi, at least the ones that they

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can find in the meantime. And
now from there you have the birth of

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Darth Vader. Oh my god,
feel the betrayal that leads to hatred between

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two brothers, and witness the power
of hope. What the fuck does that

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mean? It's fine, I'm fine
with it. Here. Three years in

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the Clone Wars, Obi Wan pursues
a new threat while Anakin is lured uh

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sorry, while Anakin is larded by
child Chancellor Palpatina to a sinister plot to

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rull the galaxy. That's better.
Well, did I did other research?

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I did? I promise, I
just want research the summer you did,

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and I'll just preemptively do this.
You do a science for amunt of research

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for this episode. I'm proud and
you know fresh Curn, Yeah I did

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sort of yeah, yeah research.
I think you might have done more research

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than I did this week. Maybe
I don't know, all right, Uh

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of course on my end, we
have patterns of forts we don't nor Yeah,

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that's the joke. That's a joke. I ruinedured joke. Fuck.

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I genuinely was, like Kenny just
messed up. We have bread and circuses,

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writers Gene Kohn and Geen Roddenberry,
director Ralph Senensky, aired March fifteenth,

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nineteen sixty eight, from Judy Crosby
of her syndicated column The TV Scout,

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first published March fifteenth, nineteen sixty
eight. Star Trek has been vaulting

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between outer space imagination and backtracking through
history. Parenthetical a piece of the action

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and patterns of forest having aired ferns
and parenthetical, which is what it does

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tonight. This is a Roman orgy
of sorts, with the Enterprise depositing its

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crew on a planet has reached the
level of the Roman Empire at its height,

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where the starship officers are forced at
televised gladiatorial combat. This one's loaded

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with all the elements of a movie
spectacle, including slave girls, gladiators,

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and the deskpot who keep the masses
happy by staging these buddy spectacles. Of

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course, he intends to start Captain
Kirk and misters Buck in one of these

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battles, and also McCoy and McCoy. It ends up, yeah, like

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famously three of them are there.
Famously, I mean the original version of

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spoilers. It was supposed to be
Kirk and Bach, but a mock time

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had done Kirk and s Bach earlier, and so they were like, and

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so did the other one, and
so did Patterns of Force. I'm so

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sorry you were so funny. I
can't believe I ruined your joke. That's

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okay, I'll let it slide.
Yeah, I genuinely thought the reason you

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did that is because I had texted
you while I was watching it, and

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I specifically said, was this film
to four Patterns? Of course, their

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four Patterns is technically the copy,
but this one seems like the copy.

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That's what I said, because I
believe it it was. It was filmed

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earlier in the season, right,
It just was made to be the penultimate

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episode. I in my book used
the Voyage of season two. I've been

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reading every single chapter except for bredon
Circuses Assignment or because this was filmed quitieterly

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in the thing right, yeah,
before all the episodes that before the episodes

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that are listed just in this synopsis. It's filmed before a piece of the

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action patterns of course, so these
episodes are kind of they should know because

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Red and Circus is in the chamber
and it is held until this point.

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But we're jumping too far ahead,
aspen. Just curious, just curious.

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Uh, have you seen this episode
before? Nope? Ah, right,

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nope, have you seen this episode
before? Most definitely. I've been very

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excited to get to this episode,
specifically dispairing of these two things. Oh,

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it is an interesting As I was
watching it, I was like,

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there's they're interesting parallels and which is
wild. For the next three weeks counting

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this week, we have some very
interesting parallels, which is very exciting for

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the shape of our podcast. Well, question for you, Kendall, have

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you ever seen have you ever seen
Star Wars episode three, Beene of the

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Sith. Not only have I seen
Star Wars episode three Revenge of the Sith,

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this was actually the first midnight Star
Wars, but I was so fortunate

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to attend. My dad took me
to it at the AMC South Roads twenty

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in Tulsa, Oklahoma, midnight,
May nineteen, two thousand and five,

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and I remember loving it, and
then I remember a palpable sense of being

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like wow after the movie was done, driving back to our home at two

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thirty three o'clock in the morning,
being like, wow, Star Wars is

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done. Four four epper coming back
a Lucas dead. At Meanwhile, George

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Lucas was already planning to do a
Star Wars Clone Wars TV show by any

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means necessary. Yeah, he was
like, you'll never escape me my little

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art movies. What yeah, I'll
go bank up Star Wars the Clone Wars

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episodes with I'll make Star Wars Detours. Is Is he truly making little films

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for himself that we will never see
in living his best life? Do we

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think? Mm hmm? Okay.
I thought maybe you knew. I thought

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maybe you hung out with him.
No, I do not. I'm trying

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to popular belie. George Lucas is
not one of my hangs. Oh yeah,

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I thought so. You always talk
about him like he's a bestie.

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No, no, it's just a
parasocial relationship. Oh wow, Okay,

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well I got my face. I
just right. I loved this movie.

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I love to the prequels because I
was just at the right age, because

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I was also excited to participate in
the stories that the film people that I

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grew up reading we're talking about,
and the stories that my dad was talking

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about, and just being like Star
Wars is the best, and I got

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my own Star Wars with these and
I got to I got to finally participate

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with the midnight shows that I knew
had always existed, but I just wasn't

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able to go to until this one
where my dad took me so exciting.

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And then not only that, this
movie, I don't know, I don't

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know if you know this. Oh
probably not, Kenny, what what this

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movie is? Dark as hell?
Oh my god, it's like like it's

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like a violent and VI whoa,
Like wow, this is like it's like

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Star Wars for grown ups. You
know, maybe Age'm so sick of so

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sick a thing where George that I'm
so sick of like this kid proper day

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George Lucas has been like I wanted
to do superheroes and space for kids,

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from the beginning, and he's constantly
being like this for kids. And even

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though people are like but like there's
boring politics, Like yeah, even like

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the first twenty minutes of this movie, you're still like have some like shenanigans.

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It's like really fucking funny. Get
get rid of it. Sorry,

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So don't remember when R two G
two just spilled out a shit done oil

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so li lit, Android's on fire. So dark, so dark, so

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dark? Oh you know whatever,
you know. Whenever Chancellor Palpatine like the

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dark Lord of the Sith and has
been manipulating government and fascism. At any

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point he starts, he goes,
you do it. I did like that

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part he goes he goes do it
because he's so excited about the sword fight

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that's happening. And he's even he
an evil MOCKI bell he villain. It's

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just like, you know, short
fight. My name she Palpatine. I

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sure, Hey, everybody, I'm
from the Little playing the Napoo. I'm

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00:17:15.359 --> 00:17:22.799
just here to play a little seng
for you. But that us clowning on

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00:17:22.799 --> 00:17:25.680
the darkness is one of the reasons
why I loved it, because it gives

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me the perception of uh, this
being nuanced, and I do think that

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once all the stuff that Lucas clearly
doesn't want to deal with goes away,

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00:17:34.079 --> 00:17:40.519
and there's some Hayden is allowed to
become a lot more of the behavioral actor,

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and it's people reacting to strong emotions. The movie picks up in the

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way that the rest of the prequels
don't. But still being said in episode

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00:17:52.680 --> 00:17:56.160
one is still my favorite because it's
the most cohesive. Mm hmmm. But

209
00:17:56.240 --> 00:18:00.759
I think some of the best acting
of the prequels is in this one here.

210
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Yeah, I think that's true.
I think that's true. I think

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there's a large swath in the back
half that really works because again, after

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00:18:17.279 --> 00:18:22.279
the turn, it's just a whole
bunch of people reacting to things. Right.

213
00:18:22.279 --> 00:18:26.240
Hayden's a good silent actor, I
think, because he just has a

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00:18:26.279 --> 00:18:32.759
great face for brooding and scowling.
It's great, it's true once again recommending

215
00:18:32.799 --> 00:18:36.680
life is a house for everybody.
And then the last fifteen minutes of this

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00:18:36.759 --> 00:18:42.079
movie or trash probably I uh yeah, I'm like, really, it's so

217
00:18:42.160 --> 00:18:56.759
funny. I'm really burned by this
film. You're proud of yourself, You're

218
00:18:56.799 --> 00:19:00.640
proud of yourself with that one thank
you. That was one hundred percent on

219
00:19:00.720 --> 00:19:07.119
purpose, Absolutely on purpose. I
think sometimes I'm the funniest on accident.

220
00:19:07.200 --> 00:19:15.200
I guess like poetry, so that
they want, what am I rhyming with?

221
00:19:15.400 --> 00:19:21.039
What does that? What is that
rhyming with? What? What am

222
00:19:21.039 --> 00:19:23.920
I calling back to? Kenny?
What? What? What? Am I?

223
00:19:25.000 --> 00:19:32.039
My kunking? My bread and Circuses
debacle, the Forest, bread and

224
00:19:32.039 --> 00:19:37.960
Circuses. I it's funny. I
don't like that. It's just not a

225
00:19:37.000 --> 00:19:47.440
good film, so sadly, I
mean, I it's it was really hilarious.

226
00:19:48.200 --> 00:19:51.440
Actually, I'm really, I'm actually
I'm going to keep asking you.

227
00:19:51.440 --> 00:19:52.880
I'm gonna keep I'm gonna keep us
on you for a second before I come

228
00:19:52.920 --> 00:19:57.160
back to this someone. Oh my
god, Kenny, this is the first

229
00:19:57.200 --> 00:20:00.519
time, you know, I've talked
to about being like I saw a Phantom

230
00:20:00.519 --> 00:20:03.599
Menace when I was when I was
young. You're only like a year older

231
00:20:03.599 --> 00:20:07.279
than me, right, so it's
the same same kind of experience, and

232
00:20:07.319 --> 00:20:11.079
that meant a lot to me.
And it was my first Star Wars experience.

233
00:20:11.079 --> 00:20:14.240
And you're talking. I don't know
if I've ever actually heard you talk

234
00:20:14.279 --> 00:20:18.599
about the Prequels as being something that
you truly enjoyed while they were happening as

235
00:20:18.640 --> 00:20:22.920
something that you could engage with as
like the I get to have my own

236
00:20:22.960 --> 00:20:25.319
thing too. I don't know if
I guess I am more interested in the

237
00:20:25.359 --> 00:20:29.839
aspect because what is so fascinating about
exploring the prequels is the prequels are your

238
00:20:29.920 --> 00:20:33.160
activation point, oh, for your
fandom and Star Wars. But also,

239
00:20:33.480 --> 00:20:37.799
yeah, I don't really talk about
my Star Wars fandom that much. Maybe

240
00:20:37.839 --> 00:20:40.720
I don't ask you enough. That's
right, and I think that you should

241
00:20:40.720 --> 00:20:47.160
feel bad about it. I should
be taking care of you more. I

242
00:20:47.519 --> 00:20:55.200
have to say to that, OA, No, I mean, do you

243
00:20:55.200 --> 00:20:57.559
you surely you know that Star Wars
was the first film that I ever read

244
00:20:57.559 --> 00:21:00.839
watched on this planet. I have
said that, and so I do know

245
00:21:00.960 --> 00:21:06.960
that Star Wars, despite your insistence
on the superiority of Star Trek, which

246
00:21:07.000 --> 00:21:11.319
is truly how you actually feel,
I do know how much Star Wars meant

247
00:21:11.359 --> 00:21:18.640
to you. With Star Wars in
my child years was way better than Star

248
00:21:18.720 --> 00:21:22.119
Trek. I was so much more
of a Star Wars fan back then.

249
00:21:22.400 --> 00:21:32.160
I had the action figures videotapes again
growing up, watched the trilogy on SLP

250
00:21:32.680 --> 00:21:37.240
vhs. That just played over and
over and over again, the original theatrical

251
00:21:37.359 --> 00:21:41.200
well not the theatrical versions, because
it had a New Hope on it.

252
00:21:41.279 --> 00:21:45.039
So I guess the nineteen eighty one
version of Star Wars episode or a New

253
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Hope. Either way, those three
movies were in constant rotation and then especially

254
00:21:49.359 --> 00:21:55.640
raised by Star Wars so much.
Oh my gosh. Yeah, participating in

255
00:21:55.680 --> 00:22:02.559
what ancillary cannon that I could good
Shadows of the Empire high I was.

256
00:22:02.759 --> 00:22:07.440
I was there. I was playing
action figures, toy, ships, toys,

257
00:22:07.480 --> 00:22:12.839
whatever you've got. And then Episode
one it comes out. I freaking

258
00:22:14.000 --> 00:22:17.200
remember my mom being like, here
it is. He was your first Episode

259
00:22:17.240 --> 00:22:22.119
one toy AND's the C three po
without any of the coverings. I'm like,

260
00:22:22.200 --> 00:22:25.279
this is the greatest thing. I
get to participate in this. He's

261
00:22:25.359 --> 00:22:32.480
naked. He's naked. Saw Episode
one in theater six times. Wow,

262
00:22:33.559 --> 00:22:37.279
that's like, man, what are
the rings? It was it was important

263
00:22:37.319 --> 00:22:40.720
for me. It was important for
me to get my numbers up because I

264
00:22:40.759 --> 00:22:44.160
wanted to be a real Star Wars
fan. I saw that's funny. I

265
00:22:44.160 --> 00:22:48.000
saw fellawsh seven times in theaters,
and then I saw the other two five

266
00:22:48.559 --> 00:22:53.200
unbelievable gosh, those are honking,
long, honking movies. I know I

267
00:22:53.319 --> 00:22:56.160
was. It was a true obsession, and so I'm like, I say

268
00:22:56.200 --> 00:22:57.839
that not to be like, oh
my god, I saw this, but

269
00:22:57.880 --> 00:23:00.319
no, just genuinely be like,
no, I know exactly what you're talking

270
00:23:00.319 --> 00:23:08.680
about. As an experience. I'm
participating in the marketing of it. I

271
00:23:08.720 --> 00:23:17.599
remember before episode two, hopping on
the forest dot net and someone, I

272
00:23:17.599 --> 00:23:22.519
guess one of the people that ran
that website had basically done a pitch perfect

273
00:23:22.920 --> 00:23:27.640
synopsis of the movie before the movie
came out and pot shopped a whole bunch

274
00:23:27.680 --> 00:23:32.480
of frames together, and so basically
I sat there and like read the entire

275
00:23:32.640 --> 00:23:37.880
movie frame by frame, and whenever
I was watching the movie, I specifically

276
00:23:37.960 --> 00:23:41.640
remember for the first time, I
specifically remember whenever they entered the Gnosis arena.

277
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I'm like, here comes the arena
scene. I've heard, I've read

278
00:23:44.160 --> 00:23:47.240
a lot about this. I'm excited
to see where it star Wars. Do

279
00:23:48.400 --> 00:23:59.079
you remember? Yes? Next question, yep, do you remember? I

280
00:23:59.119 --> 00:24:03.279
was going to say the way it
felt to be anticipating a film's release,

281
00:24:04.160 --> 00:24:07.559
like obviously it happens now, but
I feel like the experience is so different

282
00:24:07.640 --> 00:24:12.240
now, Like I would be counting
down. I would be going on websites.

283
00:24:12.319 --> 00:24:19.119
I would be absolutely losing my shit
just I couldn't even wait or like

284
00:24:19.200 --> 00:24:22.440
being like I have to wait another
year or two for this. Oh I'm

285
00:24:22.440 --> 00:24:29.000
gonna literally fucking die, like I
would track everything. God, what a

286
00:24:29.079 --> 00:24:36.839
what a what a time. I
remember when I remember when of the episode

287
00:24:36.880 --> 00:24:41.359
three trailer dropped just to bring it
back on topic. Was I not on

288
00:24:41.440 --> 00:24:44.720
topic? No, but like bringing
it back to episode three, bringing the

289
00:24:44.720 --> 00:24:48.400
circle complete the side, Okay,
Kenny, Yeah, I am worried about

290
00:24:48.400 --> 00:24:52.680
shape of show, unlike George Lucas. Kenny, Yeah, but I remember

291
00:24:53.319 --> 00:25:00.880
loading a freaking double postage stamp sized
version of the Star Wars have so retailer

292
00:25:00.920 --> 00:25:07.799
and just sitting at my twenty eight
eight K modem computer for an hour and

293
00:25:07.200 --> 00:25:15.000
like every single time, like just
a freaking six frames loaded, being like

294
00:25:15.000 --> 00:25:22.039
cool six new frames. Oh my
god, oh my god. Oh I

295
00:25:22.079 --> 00:25:26.359
love that. I love that so
much. By the time this film came

296
00:25:26.400 --> 00:25:32.279
out, I had lessened and intensity
and I think it had actually been supplanted

297
00:25:32.359 --> 00:25:36.759
by Lord of the Rings. And
Lord of the Rings was like so fierce

298
00:25:36.960 --> 00:25:41.839
for me that and it lasted for
years like at this point, it was

299
00:25:41.880 --> 00:25:45.640
almost like there was not enough space
in my heart. So like Star Wars

300
00:25:45.680 --> 00:25:51.279
was so dominant, and then Lord
of the Rings did come out in two

301
00:25:51.279 --> 00:25:52.119
thousand and one, and then it
was like two thousand and two, two

302
00:25:52.119 --> 00:25:56.240
thousand and three, and then that
just lasted me at least four more years.

303
00:25:57.480 --> 00:26:00.480
And maybe it's touch a fairry potter. So actually, by the time

304
00:26:00.519 --> 00:26:03.519
this movie came out, I obviously
saw it in theaters, was excited for

305
00:26:03.599 --> 00:26:07.400
it, but it wasn't holding that
same kind of excitement for me that you

306
00:26:07.480 --> 00:26:10.880
were talking about in terms of an
experience, in terms of being like,

307
00:26:10.920 --> 00:26:15.240
this is the thing that I'm engaging
with, and I yeah, I'm engaging

308
00:26:15.240 --> 00:26:19.240
with all all the marketing, every
single marketing. I'm like, great more,

309
00:26:19.240 --> 00:26:23.519
more more frames for the holy text
that is Star Wars because I'm yea

310
00:26:23.759 --> 00:26:30.000
like such a fervent Star Wars fan
at this point, paying attention to so

311
00:26:30.240 --> 00:26:36.880
many fan sites. I mean because
also with the rise of internet movie journalism

312
00:26:37.039 --> 00:26:42.680
so too. Yeah, just paying
attention to Star Wars and then I mean

313
00:26:44.000 --> 00:26:48.759
the Clone Wars cartoons, paying attention
that those the DVD's huge part of that

314
00:26:48.799 --> 00:26:53.359
stuff, man, and then paying
attention to every single piece coming out about

315
00:26:53.839 --> 00:26:57.960
episode three, so amped and I
always wanted to go to a midnight show

316
00:26:57.960 --> 00:27:03.119
and I'm so glad that my dad
chuck me and I saw with your dad.

317
00:27:03.319 --> 00:27:10.799
Yeah, gosh, that's really nice. Yeah I am. I'm curious

318
00:27:10.960 --> 00:27:15.880
about the feelings of like the kinds
of positive experiences we have with them initially,

319
00:27:17.000 --> 00:27:19.359
Like I obviously like Phantom Menace,
not just because it's more cohesive,

320
00:27:19.400 --> 00:27:22.039
but because it meant more to me
when I saw it at the time,

321
00:27:23.519 --> 00:27:30.240
Whereas I'm not super emotionally invested in
Revenge of the Seth. There are parts

322
00:27:30.240 --> 00:27:33.480
of it, in scenes of it
that I find to be so compelling.

323
00:27:33.559 --> 00:27:37.960
It's so interesting as discussions, and
I'm with you on the actors except for

324
00:27:40.000 --> 00:27:45.599
except for Natalie Portman getting to actually
do things. It Actually it makes me

325
00:27:45.799 --> 00:27:48.000
so mad. And I didn't realize
just how mad I was until I was

326
00:27:48.039 --> 00:27:52.680
watching it last night and I was
just like, I fucking hate this.

327
00:27:52.000 --> 00:27:55.640
This just goes to the bones of
being like Lucas is making this up,

328
00:27:56.519 --> 00:28:02.519
yeah, as he went along,
and it just freaking throws freaking you know

329
00:28:02.559 --> 00:28:08.839
what. And I'm also stop stop
straw Man, Internet dummies that are talking

330
00:28:08.839 --> 00:28:12.720
about you need someone to plan out
all this franchise. The guy that wrote

331
00:28:12.759 --> 00:28:18.079
the darn thing was never plans it
out. Never plans it out, or

332
00:28:18.279 --> 00:28:21.960
he'd have like more meat for pad
Me to do. Right. He's also

333
00:28:22.079 --> 00:28:25.000
was not the sole creator of any
of these things. Fucking shut up,

334
00:28:26.519 --> 00:28:33.799
get out of tound. Yeah,
I uh, I wonder also to the

335
00:28:33.920 --> 00:28:37.799
like a kind of a conoclastic part
of me. That's actually the wrong word

336
00:28:37.839 --> 00:28:41.799
for this, because it's no you're
an iconoclast. I think that's a descriptive

337
00:28:41.839 --> 00:28:45.240
for you. But I I don't
like that this has a seven point six

338
00:28:45.279 --> 00:28:48.359
then I m dB. I don't
like that a bunch of rabid fan boys

339
00:28:48.400 --> 00:28:52.279
have decided this is a good film. It's purely because the dark aesthetics.

340
00:28:52.799 --> 00:28:56.880
Yeah, I think it's I think
that is that's just fucking boring to me,

341
00:28:57.160 --> 00:29:00.640
Like like it feels like a people
that saw Joker and were like,

342
00:29:00.759 --> 00:29:04.839
Wow, this is our taxi driver. I mean, I need to engage

343
00:29:04.839 --> 00:29:11.440
with Joker again at some point,
just because it's such a fascinating pop culture

344
00:29:11.480 --> 00:29:17.960
object. And I think there's some
fabulous analysis and criticism of it. Joker

345
00:29:18.000 --> 00:29:21.359
is not a movie that I like, but I'm fascinated by it because so

346
00:29:21.400 --> 00:29:26.039
many people were taken with the aesthetics. But at the same time, just

347
00:29:26.079 --> 00:29:29.759
because it has this aesthetics doesn't necessarily
mean that it's engaging with them in a

348
00:29:29.920 --> 00:29:37.240
meaningful way. Yes, aesthetics is
not meaning. Luke absolutely is engaging with

349
00:29:37.319 --> 00:29:41.400
something that is he's he is,
he is for what it's worth, he

350
00:29:41.480 --> 00:29:47.759
is, he is. He is
finally getting to something, and he still

351
00:29:48.000 --> 00:29:53.559
fucks it up a little, like
he fouls up the thing that everyone was

352
00:29:53.599 --> 00:30:00.519
waiting for, the two things that
everyone was waiting for for ever since the

353
00:30:00.519 --> 00:30:06.759
prequels were announced as happening back in
nineteen ninety four, Like he fouls them

354
00:30:06.799 --> 00:30:11.720
up. So Supremelyn, why am
I? So? Why am I like

355
00:30:11.920 --> 00:30:19.480
grumpy about this? What is going
on? Because tell me why I'm feeling

356
00:30:19.519 --> 00:30:27.160
this way? Can the movie should
be better for someone that has acquired that

357
00:30:27.279 --> 00:30:36.279
much creative power? Yeah, and
the movie is just like that's fine.

358
00:30:36.559 --> 00:30:41.759
I yeah, I think that's it, Like I think a lot of it

359
00:30:41.839 --> 00:30:45.160
feels. Yeah, it feels it
almost feels like this is the culmination of

360
00:30:45.240 --> 00:30:52.200
like the wasted potential, Like that's
it, and it's the sort of maybe

361
00:30:52.240 --> 00:30:56.640
and this is the disappointment of and
it's still fun. I like it,

362
00:30:56.720 --> 00:31:00.880
Like I'm still like watching it being
like, oh happen to great time?

363
00:31:00.720 --> 00:31:07.079
Like but yeah, and maybe they're
and maybe it is the like the reach

364
00:31:07.240 --> 00:31:10.880
toward or at least maybe that the
false ignal, like the acknowledgment or the

365
00:31:11.640 --> 00:31:15.799
perception by viewers as being like darkness, like it almost like puts me off

366
00:31:17.039 --> 00:31:19.799
because I'm like, I think I
am, I am very put off by

367
00:31:19.880 --> 00:31:23.759
disingenuous things, not necessarily with the
text, but with the reaction. You're

368
00:31:23.839 --> 00:31:27.000
you're put up by the reaction to
the text. And I also think the

369
00:31:27.079 --> 00:31:30.720
creation of the thing feels touch a
touch disingenuous, and being like we're gonna

370
00:31:30.799 --> 00:31:33.200
it almost does feel like they're like, well, this is the serious one.

371
00:31:33.200 --> 00:31:37.720
And I'm like, you still have
like jar jar farting or stepping on

372
00:31:37.720 --> 00:31:44.279
someone's toe and being like it's eeny, like he's still like you're you're The

373
00:31:44.440 --> 00:31:49.000
tonal inconsistencies are actually pretty weird and
jarring. I'm fine with some tonal inconsistencies,

374
00:31:49.599 --> 00:31:56.240
but the swings here are truly uh
yeah, yeah, it's it's and

375
00:31:56.319 --> 00:32:01.799
so maybe it's just something about me
like being like or maybe it's something about

376
00:32:01.839 --> 00:32:07.160
us having just done Clone Wars,
but I'm like writing this high of what

377
00:32:07.319 --> 00:32:13.839
how you can have aesthetics while also
having meaning and like exploring something and also

378
00:32:13.960 --> 00:32:19.119
Clone words were aesthetic exercises. Yes, on purpose, you know what it

379
00:32:19.119 --> 00:32:23.880
also might be. I think I
am now thinking about the real potential of

380
00:32:23.880 --> 00:32:30.079
of the the prequels as being this
is now shout out to Jesse or all

381
00:32:30.160 --> 00:32:35.519
Jesse Gender on the sixth the sixth
hour, the essay that I watched,

382
00:32:35.559 --> 00:32:44.519
He's going above and beyond. I
want it. It's called the Decaying monometh

383
00:32:44.519 --> 00:32:49.119
of Star Wars. It's fucking incredible. I have not even made my way

384
00:32:49.119 --> 00:32:52.279
through all of it, but all
every single word is so absolutely and it's

385
00:32:52.319 --> 00:32:54.920
not just her she made it.
She has like a partner on it that

386
00:32:54.960 --> 00:32:58.519
she made it with who is also
great, and like there's like a whole

387
00:32:58.559 --> 00:33:02.920
animated purpose. Editor Aaron Ox.
Yes, Aaron Ox, so great,

388
00:33:04.119 --> 00:33:08.640
so good, incredible work. And
what they are talking about throughout it is

389
00:33:09.160 --> 00:33:14.599
this, you know, like we're
we're we have talked about this. I

390
00:33:14.640 --> 00:33:17.759
believe that, you know, it's
it's the politics of this as an exploration

391
00:33:19.039 --> 00:33:22.920
of this fault of fascism, and
so it's this idea of that these this

392
00:33:23.839 --> 00:33:31.559
George Lucas was interested in the fact
that uh, societies, especially neoliberal societies,

393
00:33:31.680 --> 00:33:37.759
much like ours and neoliberal meaning that
we are market driven, uh,

394
00:33:37.119 --> 00:33:42.799
you know, driven by market forces. We have free market, open and

395
00:33:44.160 --> 00:33:46.839
kind of like globalized nature. Though
there are other definitions. I think,

396
00:33:46.920 --> 00:33:51.640
like when I went to college,
I was also thinking of neoliberal in terms

397
00:33:51.640 --> 00:33:55.359
of like a an international relations theory. But of course, you know,

398
00:33:55.640 --> 00:34:00.400
neoliberalism is what leads us to expand
into spaces, you know, and then

399
00:34:00.559 --> 00:34:06.440
take will and it leads to things
like a lot of our actions, what

400
00:34:06.480 --> 00:34:10.519
we've done throughout the world. Yes, what is neoliberalism. It's a great

401
00:34:10.599 --> 00:34:14.360
question, and I'm trying to explain
it, but I'm going to give you

402
00:34:14.360 --> 00:34:21.119
an actual definition. I'm explaining it
poorly, I believe, but I'm going

403
00:34:21.199 --> 00:34:22.639
to go for this one. I'm
gonna go for I'm gonna go for Wikipedia

404
00:34:22.880 --> 00:34:34.199
as a political philosophy. So it
is what I just so very much wants

405
00:34:34.199 --> 00:34:39.199
someone to isolate that I'm going to
take Wikipedia as a political philosophy. I

406
00:34:39.239 --> 00:34:45.199
think just anytime Aspen just responds like
advocates for something, just someone do the

407
00:34:45.199 --> 00:34:51.480
most bad faith criticism it just posts
like that sound bite right there, being

408
00:34:51.519 --> 00:34:55.000
like I'm taking Wikipedia as a political
philosophy. Listen, I give money to

409
00:34:55.000 --> 00:34:58.960
Wikipedia, they asked me, and
I give it to them, and that

410
00:34:59.000 --> 00:35:09.679
makes you I'm a hero again like
cultry, so that they rhyme. So

411
00:35:09.800 --> 00:35:13.280
this is what I was saying,
but it says it better, which is

412
00:35:14.639 --> 00:35:19.719
the late twentieth century political reappearance of
nineteenth century ideas associated with free market capitalism.

413
00:35:20.800 --> 00:35:23.480
There's different definitions. It's often used
pejoratively. I would say it is

414
00:35:23.480 --> 00:35:30.280
often used pejoratively, especially in terms
of the United States and our geopolitical strategies,

415
00:35:30.280 --> 00:35:34.920
which is very much about the idea
of this free market capitalism of a

416
00:35:35.119 --> 00:35:39.519
kind of resource collection and what that
means. So if you think about our

417
00:35:40.400 --> 00:35:46.199
neoliberal philosophy has driven our conflicts in
the Middle East, for instance, and

418
00:35:46.280 --> 00:35:51.320
scholarly use, the term is frequently
undefined or used to characterize a vast variety

419
00:35:51.320 --> 00:35:53.960
of phenomena. It's primarily used to
describe the transformation of society due to market

420
00:35:54.079 --> 00:36:00.599
based reforms. So, and I
believe this is what Jesse talking about.

421
00:36:00.639 --> 00:36:05.079
And it would be cool to kind
of clarify this too, but specifically with

422
00:36:05.679 --> 00:36:10.239
us in the United States, there's
it's a rise of conservative right libertarian organizations,

423
00:36:10.239 --> 00:36:15.119
political parties, think tanks. It's
associated with politics, policies of economic

424
00:36:15.159 --> 00:36:22.079
liberalization, with privatization, deregulation,
globalization, free trade, austerity, restriction

425
00:36:22.159 --> 00:36:27.480
of government spending. Because if you're
looking at the idea of it being around

426
00:36:27.559 --> 00:36:31.039
free market capitalism, it is the
idea. Of course, there's the invisible

427
00:36:31.119 --> 00:36:38.280
hand that leads the market that we
have. That's grievous as ship. God

428
00:36:38.440 --> 00:36:44.320
damn, you mean the the shark? Is that right? Am? I?

429
00:36:44.400 --> 00:36:47.199
Right? Though? Is it called
the invisible hand? In my notes

430
00:36:47.239 --> 00:36:53.360
I wrote the sharkfin chode you just
look it up. Yeah, he is

431
00:36:53.360 --> 00:36:58.159
the neo Liberal party. If that's
if that is actually it's name, then

432
00:36:58.159 --> 00:37:06.280
that is on purpose. Yeah,
oh nice, that's on purpose for sure.

433
00:37:07.119 --> 00:37:12.519
So it's not just that we are
a republic like the United States is

434
00:37:12.519 --> 00:37:16.280
one hund in like the throes of
neoliberalism. It's not that we're democracy.

435
00:37:16.320 --> 00:37:21.199
It's not that we're a republic.
You know, ostensibly we are these things,

436
00:37:21.280 --> 00:37:24.440
right, but we're actually plutocracy.
We are driven by muddied interests,

437
00:37:24.559 --> 00:37:30.880
billionaires, lobbyists. We are exercising
a form of you know, free market

438
00:37:30.920 --> 00:37:35.480
economy that we are not actually unless
it is for less it is for rich

439
00:37:35.519 --> 00:37:38.760
people, and then at which point
we do have socialism. But for everybody

440
00:37:38.800 --> 00:37:43.679
else, of course, it is
open economy, open market. With we

441
00:37:43.679 --> 00:37:47.440
we have far fewer restrictions on it
than say, other like republics and democracies

442
00:37:47.480 --> 00:37:52.599
might have. H The effects are
damaging and destructive and horrifying. Uh and

443
00:37:52.639 --> 00:37:54.760
they and you can actually see where
and so part of I think what what

444
00:37:54.960 --> 00:38:00.239
she's what she's talking about is this
idea of not just a republic and how

445
00:38:00.599 --> 00:38:06.480
a democracy could fall to fascism.
It's also how and I might be misinterpreting

446
00:38:06.480 --> 00:38:09.719
this. This was my biggest takeaway, how a neoliberal society can so easily

447
00:38:09.760 --> 00:38:16.519
fall to fascism. And also,
and please stop me if I'm taking away

448
00:38:16.519 --> 00:38:25.079
your point. But the failure of
the prequels is that it is not like

449
00:38:25.199 --> 00:38:30.920
Lucas intended to from the very beginning. As made sure that I have made

450
00:38:30.920 --> 00:38:36.159
my point in the special Additions to
bring it home to complete the saga.

451
00:38:36.239 --> 00:38:43.360
What he is interested in first with
Star Wars is aesthetics m hm, and

452
00:38:43.440 --> 00:38:47.239
so all of these things that he
is alluding to I want to talk about

453
00:38:47.239 --> 00:38:51.360
politics. I want to talk about
the falls of fascism or Roman empire,

454
00:38:51.440 --> 00:38:54.559
falls of empires, how a good
man goes bad, all of those.

455
00:38:55.639 --> 00:39:02.400
He's kind of engaging with those things, especially in the prequels, on almost

456
00:39:02.559 --> 00:39:09.559
esthetic levels. Yeah, because he's
clearly he has a very rowden Berry perspective

457
00:39:09.960 --> 00:39:16.199
of like kind of like this white
like liberal kind of guy who's interested in

458
00:39:16.239 --> 00:39:21.320
the ideas, and he's not not
like actually in it, right, Like

459
00:39:21.599 --> 00:39:25.920
there's like we know that he's saying, well, if the rebels are vietcong

460
00:39:28.039 --> 00:39:31.440
then the empires the United States.
He believes that the empire is the United

461
00:39:31.480 --> 00:39:36.360
States. We are the baddies.
Like he's clearly coming from that perspective,

462
00:39:36.360 --> 00:39:42.440
and he's kind of like you can
see a sixties seventies like George Lucas being

463
00:39:42.480 --> 00:39:45.199
someone who be interested in that and
just like all other boomers, kind of

464
00:39:45.280 --> 00:39:52.079
falls to the whims of or rather
like the appeal of class as driving force,

465
00:39:52.159 --> 00:39:57.400
as opposed to social justice as driving
force. So it's almost like he's

466
00:39:57.400 --> 00:40:00.840
still interested in the ideas, this
is my interpretation, still interested in the

467
00:40:00.880 --> 00:40:04.719
ideas of how fascism can happen.
And of course you have ninety nine and

468
00:40:04.800 --> 00:40:08.159
then you have Attack of the Clones. It was two thousand, this is

469
00:40:08.159 --> 00:40:10.559
now. We're now to two thousand
and five. We're in the middle of

470
00:40:10.840 --> 00:40:17.159
wars, right, yeah, two
forever wars. And we know Anakin literally

471
00:40:17.639 --> 00:40:22.039
quote Steorge Bush in this film like, if you're not with me in your

472
00:40:22.039 --> 00:40:22.880
again, if you're not with us, then you're against us. You're not

473
00:40:22.920 --> 00:40:25.960
with me, then you are against
me. And so he clearly has us

474
00:40:27.000 --> 00:40:30.719
in mind, and he does have
like the idea of like when we get

475
00:40:30.719 --> 00:40:34.199
into when we talk about how all
the politics of you know, Phantom Menace

476
00:40:34.199 --> 00:40:36.760
are boring, it's like, well, that is how it starts. Again,

477
00:40:36.840 --> 00:40:38.880
I'm quoting this video directly. That's
how it starts. It starts with

478
00:40:38.960 --> 00:40:45.920
trade negotiations. It starts like in
a banal way or you know where you're

479
00:40:45.960 --> 00:40:49.000
just like, oh, it's that
kind of shit that then builds up to

480
00:40:49.079 --> 00:40:52.400
say, the concentration, the accumulation
of power that can be can be then

481
00:40:52.559 --> 00:40:58.280
exploited by a populist leader just for
shape the show and because you mentioned him,

482
00:40:58.760 --> 00:41:05.599
uh huh, gene Ge Rodberry,
Yeah, yeah, yeah, we're

483
00:41:05.639 --> 00:41:08.599
talking about the fall up or the
rise of one empire. Over Revenge of

484
00:41:08.599 --> 00:41:15.880
the Sith Right, and here we
are with the Roman Empire parallel certain the

485
00:41:15.960 --> 00:41:22.199
nineteen sixties, how about that?
How about that? Yeah? And with

486
00:41:22.320 --> 00:41:25.920
a guy who that One of the
biggest things I was thinking of with the

487
00:41:25.920 --> 00:41:31.320
parallel piece was how interesting that it's
it's truly like a Roman Empire society.

488
00:41:31.719 --> 00:41:40.599
And five years before this captain and
his crew had had to basically figure out

489
00:41:40.639 --> 00:41:47.159
how to survive, and he decided
to join the Empire. Yeah, for

490
00:41:47.239 --> 00:41:52.760
self preservation. And I was like, wow, the real Anakin move and

491
00:41:52.760 --> 00:41:55.239
it is a real anti move.
And not only that, but there are

492
00:41:57.559 --> 00:42:01.039
folks that are pulling the strings with
Revenge of the Seth. That's the Emperor

493
00:42:01.719 --> 00:42:07.800
and with this episode, it's the
pro console. That dude was the best.

494
00:42:08.039 --> 00:42:12.880
Yeah, Like I fucking hated this
dude and it was licious performance.

495
00:42:13.360 --> 00:42:16.880
Yes, that dude is like varising
it up. We're varrassing. Varius was

496
00:42:16.920 --> 00:42:22.360
heat hemming it up that one day. Listen, you never have to watch

497
00:42:22.400 --> 00:42:24.679
it. You never have to watch
Game of Throats. Oh, I thought

498
00:42:24.719 --> 00:42:29.719
that was a Star Wars thing.
No, it's Veris from Scave of Throats.

499
00:42:30.039 --> 00:42:31.599
Oh. Also, like my Star
Wars fandom. After Revenge of the

500
00:42:31.639 --> 00:42:37.000
Deeth was just like no thanks.
And then whenever the Clone Wars theatrical movie

501
00:42:37.000 --> 00:42:39.880
came out, I was like,
all right, that's not real Star Wars.

502
00:42:40.519 --> 00:42:46.639
Oh yikes, no he yeah,
there's the pro Consulate and he is

503
00:42:47.360 --> 00:42:52.400
pulling all the strings and this other
guy is basically the face of things and

504
00:42:52.559 --> 00:42:59.679
letting it also just kind of being
complicit and what's happening which this episode?

505
00:42:59.840 --> 00:43:06.440
I think this episode rips mostly nine
of this episode, right, No,

506
00:43:06.599 --> 00:43:12.079
I'll dare say like ninety this episode
great classic star Trek, and there's five

507
00:43:12.079 --> 00:43:17.159
percent that is just classic Roden Berrier
being like, what's the quonkiest thing that

508
00:43:17.239 --> 00:43:22.719
I can do? What I'm going
to pull at you? By the way,

509
00:43:22.760 --> 00:43:25.800
at the end of this I think
that it's a good episode ruined by

510
00:43:25.840 --> 00:43:30.280
two significant things that brings it down
so low in my esteem. I can't

511
00:43:30.280 --> 00:43:36.119
even handle it. Bread and no
bread. No bread. You were watching

512
00:43:36.159 --> 00:43:39.639
it with Joel and you're like,
there's not a single elephant loaf of brad.

513
00:43:39.920 --> 00:43:47.920
No brad, no lions or elephants. I was promised two specific things.

514
00:43:50.880 --> 00:43:59.440
I don't know even why we're here. What's this statement about the booo

515
00:44:00.079 --> 00:44:07.239
o my god. Yeah, no, two specific things sexual assault and clunky,

516
00:44:07.280 --> 00:44:12.880
shitty bad history and insertion of a
misunderstanding of Christianity. Outstanding, wonderful,

517
00:44:13.599 --> 00:44:19.039
literally screamed boo good right yet Yeah
no, I mean it's really good.

518
00:44:19.079 --> 00:44:22.440
I mean it's it's better. It's
actually better, I think than patterns

519
00:44:22.440 --> 00:44:24.840
of Force for the most part,
despite being so similar in concept lyrics.

520
00:44:25.039 --> 00:44:30.039
Yeah, I think it's saying more
interesting things than patterns of Force is saying.

521
00:44:30.679 --> 00:44:36.280
Not that patterns of Force is almost
exactly the same story, but this

522
00:44:36.440 --> 00:44:44.199
is a far more I can love
patterns support, but there's some interesting nuances

523
00:44:44.239 --> 00:44:47.719
that are Yes, it's very it's
easy to be like Nazis are bad because

524
00:44:47.719 --> 00:44:54.320
they fucking are punch them in the
face. Obviously enslaving people's are bad.

525
00:44:54.519 --> 00:44:59.000
Obviously, like fuck them, punch
them in the face. But there was

526
00:44:59.039 --> 00:45:04.400
like an interesting well tet tet kind
of going on of like, well,

527
00:45:05.440 --> 00:45:08.800
you are from a world in a
society that has been in constant war and

528
00:45:08.840 --> 00:45:15.199
has killed millions of people for thousands
and thousands of years, and obviously both

529
00:45:15.199 --> 00:45:17.079
of these systems are not the answer, and either of them are right.

530
00:45:17.159 --> 00:45:20.360
But it did kind of have me. It did hit me in then one

531
00:45:20.400 --> 00:45:24.360
of those moments where I then had
my little cycle of depression where I was

532
00:45:24.400 --> 00:45:28.000
just like, of course, we're
always at war because that's one of the

533
00:45:28.000 --> 00:45:30.679
ways that you secure power. Anyway, I'm fine, and that's the way.

534
00:45:30.719 --> 00:45:32.719
But that's the thing. It's like, what are we so different then

535
00:45:32.840 --> 00:45:37.800
from that? Like we secure power
in different types of ways by keeping fear

536
00:45:38.840 --> 00:45:45.960
afloat and yeah we have we have
forever wars and that's how power is concentrated

537
00:45:45.000 --> 00:45:52.239
for us. And is it really
so different in the circumstance? But now

538
00:45:52.280 --> 00:45:57.000
I know all about how the Roman
Empire worked and about the beginning of Christianity

539
00:45:58.400 --> 00:46:01.800
because Joel told me, yeah,
so what do he tell you? Good

540
00:46:01.880 --> 00:46:06.000
lord, you did a lot of
research for this that well, it was

541
00:46:06.280 --> 00:46:10.280
he just talked to me for thirty
minutes. I feel like I should call

542
00:46:10.360 --> 00:46:15.280
him back in here, but he
might talk for another thirty minutes. I'm

543
00:46:15.320 --> 00:46:21.440
gonna mischaracterize when he said, well, because okay, the Roman Empire.

544
00:46:24.400 --> 00:46:28.679
One of the things he mentioned was
the reason the Roman Empire could be so

545
00:46:28.800 --> 00:46:30.679
okay, Oh, first, can
I just yell about something? Yeah?

546
00:46:30.760 --> 00:46:36.679
Sorry, Before we even get started, they fucking worshiped the Sun in ancient

547
00:46:36.800 --> 00:46:44.840
Rome literally soul and then soul invictus, like they worshiped the sun. Did

548
00:46:44.880 --> 00:46:47.639
not know that because and then so
does so much engage in Uh, what

549
00:46:47.719 --> 00:46:52.800
do you remember about the Roman Empire? There's columns, there's some chains.

550
00:46:53.599 --> 00:47:00.320
Oh, I guess they have their
gods. We give or take that one.

551
00:47:00.039 --> 00:47:05.480
And that's pretty much what this episode
is interested in regards to actually engaging

552
00:47:05.639 --> 00:47:13.039
with the Roman Empire. It's very
much just like not engaging in it with

553
00:47:13.119 --> 00:47:17.280
any nuance instead very much just being
like, let's let's golant the Roman Empire

554
00:47:17.320 --> 00:47:22.559
onto our system of right. Yeah. In this episode, from what I

555
00:47:22.559 --> 00:47:25.360
can tell, seems to really be
more of a commentary on the ways that

556
00:47:25.519 --> 00:47:32.800
we like sensationalize violence and like the
power. Yeah, it's it's commenting on

557
00:47:34.280 --> 00:47:43.119
how the US is pacifying it's public
using right. It's it's wildneteen in a

558
00:47:43.159 --> 00:47:45.599
TV show at nineteen eighty six,
which is just like, ah, yes,

559
00:47:47.079 --> 00:47:55.159
utilizing such things as oh my goodness, retirement funds and pensions and social

560
00:47:55.199 --> 00:48:01.039
security payments as a means of pacifications, so book will be comfortable enough to

561
00:48:01.079 --> 00:48:07.519
allow evil to happen, right,
which is that is a fucking great way,

562
00:48:07.840 --> 00:48:15.639
that's exactly radical for nineteen sixty eight
NBC. It is, it is,

563
00:48:15.960 --> 00:48:22.559
and it is. It's like well, and there's sure, okay,

564
00:48:22.599 --> 00:48:28.079
I'm going to one hundred percent characterized
this good part of this Roman uh Roman

565
00:48:28.119 --> 00:48:32.360
Empire Birth of Christianity. Conversation also
pulled into a bit of like morality and

566
00:48:32.440 --> 00:48:39.840
Nietzsche's definitions of rality because it gets
I know, and this actually reminded me

567
00:48:39.880 --> 00:48:44.079
of something he said to me over
here, being like well, Mark Cushman

568
00:48:44.159 --> 00:48:49.280
said in his book with the Voyage, just like I how to give proper

569
00:48:49.320 --> 00:48:52.559
context, I had to read the
tones of Nietzsche and I didn't child did

570
00:48:53.159 --> 00:48:57.480
not me. He just told me
and like right before yeah, yeah,

571
00:48:57.480 --> 00:49:00.679
but the idea of like you can
like create systems more and if you are

572
00:49:00.679 --> 00:49:04.320
an enslaved person, your system of
morality is going to be. If you're

573
00:49:04.360 --> 00:49:07.519
a person who's persecuted, it is
shaped by well, like good and evil,

574
00:49:07.719 --> 00:49:10.199
as opposed to say maybe something like
I look at like if I'm not

575
00:49:10.239 --> 00:49:13.440
a persecuted person, I look at
this and I'm like, this is good.

576
00:49:13.559 --> 00:49:15.880
I like this thing. This is
bad. I don't like this thing.

577
00:49:15.920 --> 00:49:17.360
This is lesser than the thing I
like, but if you're in a

578
00:49:17.440 --> 00:49:23.119
system in which you are surviving and
everything is desperate and you are like you

579
00:49:23.159 --> 00:49:28.920
are literally hurt every single day,
what good is for you is something that

580
00:49:29.000 --> 00:49:35.239
is like relief or support or mercy. That is what now becomes a good

581
00:49:35.760 --> 00:49:38.880
and the other things are evils because
it is the system, it is the

582
00:49:38.960 --> 00:49:43.880
empire, it is the it is
the Roman Empire, it is the people

583
00:49:43.920 --> 00:49:46.480
who are hurting me. So you
have a very stark sense of what a

584
00:49:46.519 --> 00:49:51.960
different type of morality looks like.
And so if you have a system that

585
00:49:52.119 --> 00:50:00.280
is painted in this episode of like
that, that is what goodness is for

586
00:50:00.320 --> 00:50:04.719
these people who are enslaved. And
so if they were given any type of

587
00:50:06.079 --> 00:50:09.880
service of any kind, that is
now a mercy and that is a good

588
00:50:10.119 --> 00:50:15.000
right. And so it can pacify
to some extent while there still is an

589
00:50:15.079 --> 00:50:19.960
evil that exists. And I'm like
kind of butchering this a little bit.

590
00:50:19.960 --> 00:50:22.920
I don't think it's quite pulling,
but it was something that I just it

591
00:50:22.960 --> 00:50:28.599
Actually that's what feeds into the idea
of the beginnings of Christianity. But that's

592
00:50:28.639 --> 00:50:31.880
why we were talking about it.
But in terms of like the ideas that

593
00:50:31.880 --> 00:50:42.800
the pacification of people. Like the
idea of of televising this having people fight

594
00:50:43.719 --> 00:50:49.199
is the literal bread and circuses.
You're numbing people to a thing while also

595
00:50:49.280 --> 00:50:53.519
keeping them satisfied. I do think
that this concept is truly does get its

596
00:50:53.599 --> 00:50:59.199
best characterization ultimately in The Hunger Games. I love The Hunger Games, and

597
00:50:59.239 --> 00:51:01.840
I was like to see Thank Collins
watch this episode. I mean, she

598
00:51:01.880 --> 00:51:07.519
probably just knows about Roman Roman Empire
and Roman history. But the idea,

599
00:51:07.079 --> 00:51:10.559
the idea that it's you know that
it's it's televised, is huge. Well,

600
00:51:10.599 --> 00:51:15.760
you're tapping into the other thing that
has so much juice and I cannot

601
00:51:15.960 --> 00:51:22.360
this show getting very self aware.
Oh yeah, it's just like they're like,

602
00:51:23.159 --> 00:51:27.639
it's probably like a commentary on the
studio itself. It's right, it's

603
00:51:27.760 --> 00:51:31.119
Gene cod and Gene Roddenberry being like, all right, let's come together here

604
00:51:31.199 --> 00:51:42.559
and let's grind some axes. Because
they're probably I'm assuming Rodenberry more so,

605
00:51:42.679 --> 00:51:47.400
but that's a complete assumption because coun
and Roddenberry, at least from what I

606
00:51:47.400 --> 00:51:52.599
can remember, you're sharing a co
writing credit for this one that popped up.

607
00:51:52.639 --> 00:51:59.239
I yelled, I actually got confused, and genuinely and That's why I

608
00:51:59.280 --> 00:52:01.599
looked up to see if this was
an earlier episode that was just LA and

609
00:52:01.679 --> 00:52:07.199
I was right, look how much
or more? Yeah, because the faults

610
00:52:07.239 --> 00:52:14.119
at NBC were like, I assume
we're in charge of scheduling and they put

611
00:52:14.159 --> 00:52:22.920
this second to last in the season. Anyways, very clearly it feels like,

612
00:52:23.039 --> 00:52:30.079
if not Roddenberry or Kun, at
least a creative team philosophically struggling with

613
00:52:30.400 --> 00:52:37.800
what their value is at this time. Yeah, in great American strife,

614
00:52:37.800 --> 00:52:45.719
and they recognize what are we We
are serving as a distraction, we are

615
00:52:45.840 --> 00:52:52.000
culpable in this injustice. But at
the same time, there's still I mean,

616
00:52:52.280 --> 00:52:57.400
it's certainly I think the satire of
the TV stuff is certainly not as

617
00:52:57.400 --> 00:53:00.840
pointed as I am making it out
to be. But a the same time,

618
00:53:00.639 --> 00:53:07.199
it's still within These are the Voyages
season two. They're talking about how

619
00:53:07.320 --> 00:53:12.360
in the original book they're talking about
giving you the Gladiator James live and in

620
00:53:12.480 --> 00:53:17.239
color, and in the original version
it was in living color, and NBC

621
00:53:17.480 --> 00:53:22.440
was like, nahuh no, no, you cannot do that because NBC's whole

622
00:53:22.440 --> 00:53:29.320
thing was this telecast brought to you
in living color on NBC. Right,

623
00:53:30.760 --> 00:53:35.960
you feel like, I'm meta narrative. It's spice. It's spice. It

624
00:53:36.079 --> 00:53:43.880
is spicy too bad, It's like
weirdly ruined too bad. As always,

625
00:53:43.880 --> 00:53:46.480
it gets muddied and weird, like
because it's saying something so interesting and actually

626
00:53:46.599 --> 00:53:52.039
is having some of the best,
the best emotional moments I've seen in a

627
00:53:52.079 --> 00:53:57.159
while. It had DC Fontana levels
of Spock characterization and growth not growth but

628
00:53:57.239 --> 00:54:02.559
like commentary on and connection with McCoy. That was fucking beautiful. But it

629
00:54:02.599 --> 00:54:08.559
also had Kirk presumably sleeping with an
enslaved woman. Yeah, which is which?

630
00:54:08.599 --> 00:54:15.000
Drift? Which is which is sexual
assault? Don't even fuck with me

631
00:54:15.400 --> 00:54:17.360
on it, you know what I
mean? Absolutely, you're not they are.

632
00:54:17.559 --> 00:54:21.719
Fuck them for that. I'm like, I'm raged. I'm enraged that,

633
00:54:21.840 --> 00:54:24.199
like, you could be saying interesting
things and then you still throw the

634
00:54:24.199 --> 00:54:29.480
most bullshit kind of moment in there
for what like and it's almost like them

635
00:54:30.079 --> 00:54:32.760
fulfilling their own prophecy. They're like, well, we might be being thoughtful

636
00:54:32.800 --> 00:54:37.000
about ourselves, but look, we're
still going to We're still going to use

637
00:54:37.079 --> 00:54:42.760
marginalized people. Not that white women
are more marginalized than like others, but

638
00:54:42.880 --> 00:54:45.960
like we're gonna use like people that
we marginalize as like fodder for you still

639
00:54:46.000 --> 00:54:51.039
as viewers, like we're still doing
the thing, so don't think that we're

640
00:54:51.079 --> 00:54:54.480
actually learning. We're not the baddies. The studios are the baddies. And

641
00:54:54.519 --> 00:55:01.400
then the end with that absolute bullshit
about how about how these this group of

642
00:55:01.960 --> 00:55:06.960
uh people who had been enslaved and
had gotten away follow soul, which the

643
00:55:07.039 --> 00:55:10.199
Romans did have soul, it's not
out of But then and it was like

644
00:55:10.239 --> 00:55:14.960
the sun and then Ahura is like, don't you know it's the son of

645
00:55:14.960 --> 00:55:17.599
God. I'm like, it's fucking
not. What are you talking about?

646
00:55:19.559 --> 00:55:23.719
Sorry? I was just like,
well, you know, you know that

647
00:55:23.840 --> 00:55:28.880
roden Berry so proud of that?
What is he proud of? What do

648
00:55:28.920 --> 00:55:30.960
you think? What was he What
was he going for? Kenny? Was

649
00:55:30.000 --> 00:55:34.760
he trying to go for historical accuracy
because he's not? Because he was like,

650
00:55:34.840 --> 00:55:38.119
that's pretty cute, that's pretty pretty
cute. Yeah, we just saw

651
00:55:38.239 --> 00:55:45.599
this with the Omega Glory. Dude, No, you know that Geene Roddenberry

652
00:55:45.679 --> 00:55:49.480
was so proud of that. I'm
bewildered by a man who I mean,

653
00:55:50.000 --> 00:55:52.320
this is not the perspective I'm necessarily
coming from, but thinking from a Roddenberry

654
00:55:52.360 --> 00:56:00.480
perspective of like, is that dude
like a religion released anti yati or a

655
00:56:00.159 --> 00:56:01.880
what's it? What's the deal?
He's just yeah, he's just trying to

656
00:56:01.920 --> 00:56:06.480
be cute. He's atheist. He's
all it is is just being cute and

657
00:56:06.519 --> 00:56:10.480
cute. Fuck that. Yeah,
absolute nightmare. Shit. It's stupid.

658
00:56:10.719 --> 00:56:15.880
It is and it's distracting, Like
it actually distracts fully from the thing,

659
00:56:16.119 --> 00:56:21.679
because now that I now know the
origins of christian Yeah, there's enough,

660
00:56:21.920 --> 00:56:28.800
there's enough juwice here, and then
it's so clunky as hell. Yeah,

661
00:56:28.960 --> 00:56:32.639
it's just I don't I don't like
I can excuse some things where it's like

662
00:56:32.679 --> 00:56:36.039
we had a serious ass episode and
then we made a joke at the end.

663
00:56:36.079 --> 00:56:37.880
I'm like that's fine, But this
kind of shit, I'm just like

664
00:56:37.920 --> 00:56:43.159
it feels feels insulting to everyone.
And yeah, so I'm with you that.

665
00:56:43.239 --> 00:56:45.400
I'm like like on other episodes where
you're like, wow, we could

666
00:56:45.440 --> 00:56:50.039
have like it's great, I'm gonna
spite rank it, rate it for sure,

667
00:56:51.360 --> 00:56:53.320
like something about it. Am I
just in a bad mood. Now

668
00:56:53.320 --> 00:56:58.800
I'm not in got mood. Well, I think it's the same thing.

669
00:56:58.880 --> 00:57:01.920
Objective I think same thing as Revenge
of the Set. That's like, I

670
00:57:01.920 --> 00:57:07.000
don't I truly hate when I'm watching
something with a lot of potential that tanks

671
00:57:07.000 --> 00:57:10.679
it so badly. You know,
that's saying something interesting, and then the

672
00:57:10.719 --> 00:57:15.920
creators are still up their own what
They're just like, look at me,

673
00:57:16.039 --> 00:57:21.599
I'm just that funny little man,
just a little buddy doing a little dan

674
00:57:22.239 --> 00:57:29.760
and I'm just like you. You
could just go fuck yourself, go make

675
00:57:29.800 --> 00:57:34.480
your own little bucking movie somewhere else. Don't let me down anyway. How

676
00:57:34.519 --> 00:57:37.199
are you? Are you Okay,
I'm good. Let's go into the deep

677
00:57:37.280 --> 00:57:45.320
type. Uh. So Breton Circus
is what's interesting, not necessarily relevant,

678
00:57:45.360 --> 00:57:50.559
but I think this is fascinating context. Uh. This was an assignment from

679
00:57:50.599 --> 00:57:54.639
Gen Rodenberger and Gene Kuhn to a
brand new writer, writer John Newbill who's

680
00:57:54.760 --> 00:57:59.880
forty seven. New who's a new
and his name is new Bill. Uh

681
00:58:00.199 --> 00:58:05.239
forty And according to Dorothy Fontana Aspen, I want you to grab onto something.

682
00:58:05.280 --> 00:58:08.159
This is going to be rad fuck
fuck fuck. You can just keep

683
00:58:08.159 --> 00:58:10.840
holding out to your water bottle,
okay, and you can do a spit

684
00:58:10.880 --> 00:58:15.920
take if you want. Oh exciting
the writer the original writer of this script

685
00:58:15.960 --> 00:58:21.639
was an actual Samoan prince. I
try not to actually spit on my microph.

686
00:58:22.199 --> 00:58:25.400
He was an Olympic swimmer twenty years
before he was a Samoan prince.

687
00:58:28.400 --> 00:58:35.360
And then he just kind of changed
careers, uh, and became a writer,

688
00:58:35.480 --> 00:58:38.480
a successful TV writer, and invented
the character of doctor Lovelass for The

689
00:58:38.519 --> 00:58:45.079
Wild Wild West, one of Star
Trek also compatriots on TV at this time,

690
00:58:45.559 --> 00:58:49.320
rather a successful show from what I
understand, The Wow Wow West.

691
00:58:50.000 --> 00:58:54.079
When you bounce into the Wow Wow
West, when you stroll into the Wowow

692
00:58:54.159 --> 00:59:00.960
West, when I roll into the
Wow Wow West, We're going the next

693
00:59:01.000 --> 00:59:08.840
piece of contact. So he wrote
on this for a sizeable amount and then,

694
00:59:09.599 --> 00:59:14.239
at least according to the book,
citing personal health problems as the reason,

695
00:59:15.119 --> 00:59:21.320
he declined to do further revisions and
then abandoned this script. From there,

696
00:59:21.880 --> 00:59:28.079
Gene con and Jean rotten Berry did
the rewrites on this, and then

697
00:59:28.119 --> 00:59:30.519
at some point, you know,
I mean, you're probably wondering why doesn't

698
00:59:30.519 --> 00:59:32.719
he have a credit, And that's
because he did not. He specifically asked

699
00:59:32.760 --> 00:59:37.360
for no credit on this. Oh
so it's not like when George lucas Or

700
00:59:37.559 --> 00:59:42.239
did the special edition so that he
could fuck over the people that won an

701
00:59:42.239 --> 00:59:45.159
oscar for editing for a new Hope. I don't like that. I surely

702
00:59:45.199 --> 00:59:49.400
know about the nuances of that.
I'm sure that it's a lot more complicated

703
00:59:49.440 --> 00:59:54.400
than internet books. That's not why
he did it, but it did change

704
00:59:54.440 --> 01:00:00.519
everybody's sure I see, yeah,
isn't it. I'm just I'm just taken

705
01:00:00.639 --> 01:00:05.119
facts. I'm just taking information from
a six hour video that is correct.

706
01:00:05.280 --> 01:00:07.679
Yes, m that's a fuck it
over, but it did, in fact

707
01:00:07.760 --> 01:00:10.559
do a disservice greatly to all the
people who did work on the effects of

708
01:00:10.559 --> 01:00:15.159
the original films. Anyway, what's
up? You're so right? Well,

709
01:00:15.239 --> 01:00:16.840
I'm not the one who said it, but I'm saying it now for you

710
01:00:16.880 --> 01:00:21.760
to hear and for everyone to hear. And then I'm a grumpy baby.

711
01:00:21.880 --> 01:00:24.800
Also, yes, this episode was
forty third filmed of all of Star Trek

712
01:00:24.840 --> 01:00:29.239
and push Back to being the fifty
fourth aired episode, and was not given

713
01:00:29.239 --> 01:00:32.440
a repeat broadcast. Then, also, let me read this. Wait what

714
01:00:34.599 --> 01:00:37.679
this week? Do you mean it
was filmed? Quote? What did you

715
01:00:37.719 --> 01:00:43.360
mean it didn't get a repeat broadcast? It? You know reruns? Yeah,

716
01:00:43.480 --> 01:00:46.880
first first reruns whenever it was just
an NBC show like summer reruns,

717
01:00:47.119 --> 01:00:52.280
right, it didn't get a rerun, uh, not for at least whenever

718
01:00:52.320 --> 01:00:58.440
it was on NBC in syndication.
In syndication, of course it did milked

719
01:00:58.440 --> 01:01:01.280
it for all it's worth. But
while it was on NBC, Matt Okay

720
01:01:01.400 --> 01:01:05.840
got it, got it, and
then uh, to give you the range

721
01:01:06.039 --> 01:01:09.920
inducing things. Bring it back to
our discussions of neoliberalism and the decline of

722
01:01:09.960 --> 01:01:17.639
vampires. Mm hmm. Two things. One, rodden Berry was rewriting this

723
01:01:17.760 --> 01:01:25.480
script, daring shooting heavily, which
was not uncommon, but oh yeah,

724
01:01:25.599 --> 01:01:32.639
gen Kuhn, and that was their
relationship. Gene Kuhn was not exactly reluctant.

725
01:01:34.119 --> 01:01:37.960
Gen Kuhn gladly shared credit, but
roden Berry was like a lot of

726
01:01:37.000 --> 01:01:43.960
the stuff that was being shot on
the day was roden Berry had his little

727
01:01:44.000 --> 01:01:45.840
fingies all over it. And that's
probably why the end of the episode gets

728
01:01:45.840 --> 01:01:50.599
so darn cute, because the boss
upstairs was doing these things. And it

729
01:01:50.679 --> 01:01:57.039
was also before Rodenberry I think went
had he come back from writing his little

730
01:01:57.079 --> 01:02:00.920
Robin Hood pilot by then? Maybe
maybe not. Either way, there was

731
01:02:00.960 --> 01:02:05.239
consternation because rodden Berry went away for
a while, so working on other projects.

732
01:02:05.320 --> 01:02:07.960
Gene Kuhn was like, I'm the
supervising producer over here. We're gonna

733
01:02:07.960 --> 01:02:12.400
write these episodes. And there are
a whole bunch of episodes that you and

734
01:02:12.440 --> 01:02:15.119
me are like, is it a
great episodes? It's classic Star Trek.

735
01:02:15.159 --> 01:02:17.679
Then when Rod came back, when
Geen Roddenberry came back, he was like,

736
01:02:19.320 --> 01:02:21.440
this is not the way that Star
Trek was supposed to be. And

737
01:02:21.480 --> 01:02:23.079
so roden Berry, even on this
episode, was trying to strip out as

738
01:02:23.159 --> 01:02:27.920
much humor as he could because he
did not think that Star Trek should be

739
01:02:28.000 --> 01:02:30.880
humorous. And I think that it
has to strike a specific balance. It

740
01:02:30.880 --> 01:02:37.079
can't be too funny all the time, because not every episode should be like

741
01:02:37.159 --> 01:02:42.079
a hairy mud hijinks episode. I
think if gene Kuhn was just left to

742
01:02:42.159 --> 01:02:45.079
run rampant, maybe it would have
just been pure comedy. Who knows.

743
01:02:45.599 --> 01:02:49.840
But it also can't be like super
duper dry like Geen Roddenberry wants it.

744
01:02:50.159 --> 01:02:57.960
Anyways. Huh, here's the thing
that would be really frustrating. I'm so

745
01:02:58.039 --> 01:03:09.280
excited and giving notes about this script
to to John Newbill talking about Roddenberry,

746
01:03:09.280 --> 01:03:12.679
and I'm reading this again from these
of the Voyage of Season two, Please

747
01:03:12.719 --> 01:03:15.639
go buy the buck. It's right. Rotten Berry was intrigued by the concept

748
01:03:15.719 --> 01:03:19.920
of a modern day society circa Earth
nineteen sixty seven, which participated in slave

749
01:03:20.000 --> 01:03:22.760
trading. Of this, he said, and I'm going into the rage inducing

750
01:03:22.800 --> 01:03:29.559
part parenthetical incidentally, that being slaves
not a bad idea. I could use

751
01:03:29.559 --> 01:03:32.440
a couple of slaves myself, or
on second thought, considering what we pay

752
01:03:32.480 --> 01:03:36.760
for our housekeeper, maybe you've got
one. What a terrible thought, I

753
01:03:36.880 --> 01:03:39.039
eat that I have a slave and
instead of feeding her and give her money

754
01:03:39.079 --> 01:03:42.880
to go out and feed herself,
and probably not as well as I'd feed

755
01:03:42.920 --> 01:03:45.480
and clothe her if she lived more
closely with the pan Yes, a terrible

756
01:03:45.519 --> 01:03:51.360
thought. I really feel guilty.
So this makes a lot of sense,

757
01:03:52.039 --> 01:03:58.480
that this absolute nightmare of a human
being who's saying is intrusive thoughts out loud,

758
01:03:59.199 --> 01:04:00.800
and I was thinking that, but
are gonna be like, oh so

759
01:04:01.079 --> 01:04:09.920
funny. She of course would write
a muddied story that is like, I

760
01:04:09.960 --> 01:04:15.719
mean, really, is slavery really
that bad? Because that whole conversation obviously

761
01:04:15.840 --> 01:04:18.679
like that kind of you know,
is our society really that worse? Than

762
01:04:18.719 --> 01:04:23.119
yours, didn't. I My takeaway
from that was, no, these are

763
01:04:23.119 --> 01:04:27.480
both really fucking bad things. Like
but I'm like, oh no, were

764
01:04:27.480 --> 01:04:33.239
you like actually inviting that as a
real thought? Cool? And also to

765
01:04:33.440 --> 01:04:41.199
just bring it more into perspective.
This is radical for the time. But

766
01:04:41.719 --> 01:04:48.960
you know, could do better,
could be better? Yeah? And I

767
01:04:49.639 --> 01:04:59.519
yeah, I interesting, shit,
don't like that. Speaking of trivia that

768
01:04:59.559 --> 01:05:03.360
you can get about these things.
I did read some trivia that apparently someone

769
01:05:03.360 --> 01:05:06.199
who had come on the set,
like Jean Rod and Mary was walking or

770
01:05:06.280 --> 01:05:09.400
is one of the genes. I
think it was Rod and Mary was walking

771
01:05:09.400 --> 01:05:13.159
and then Shatner saw him and then
just promptly turned around and went the other

772
01:05:13.199 --> 01:05:16.000
way, and they were like someone
was like mentioning all the tension on the

773
01:05:16.039 --> 01:05:19.599
set and like everybody hated each other, and they just complain about each other

774
01:05:19.639 --> 01:05:25.800
to this person, which is wild
because the darn thing it's still going all

775
01:05:25.840 --> 01:05:30.440
these years later. I mean,
you know, toxic workplaces, I guess.

776
01:05:30.760 --> 01:05:34.000
Speaking of trivia, though, you
said to me that there's some trivia

777
01:05:34.159 --> 01:05:38.960
in IMDb on Revenge of This seth
that I'm gonna love. Do you know

778
01:05:39.199 --> 01:05:42.920
which piece of trivia it is?
We see let me scroll. Hold on

779
01:05:42.960 --> 01:05:47.599
a second if I could, just
because there's quite a bit of trivia.

780
01:05:48.519 --> 01:05:54.199
Of course, let me scroll.
Here we go. I got pulled up

781
01:05:54.239 --> 01:06:02.119
and clicked trivia tap go and scrolling
down. Submitted by user Rick Olier.

782
01:06:02.440 --> 01:06:10.760
The whole planet is one big city. Okay, are you serious? Did

783
01:06:10.760 --> 01:06:14.039
you know? Kenny? Wait?
No? No, no? Because I

784
01:06:14.159 --> 01:06:16.159
then texted you back, is it
that? Isn't it that I said?

785
01:06:16.199 --> 01:06:20.039
Isn't it? The planet is what
makes the whole planet? Wait? I

786
01:06:20.079 --> 01:06:28.639
guessed I thought you're being serious?
Yeah, because I was like, oh

787
01:06:28.840 --> 01:06:32.320
no, in this like fight over
Coruscant, those ships are creaming to award

788
01:06:32.400 --> 01:06:36.719
the planet. They're going to like
wipe out millions of people. Did you

789
01:06:36.800 --> 01:06:43.760
know that episode three was rich?
I mean was going to start differently,

790
01:06:44.639 --> 01:06:47.519
No big surprise, cool. I
mean I'm sure many things would have been

791
01:06:47.519 --> 01:06:53.800
different. What is so fascinating reading
Secret History of Star Wars? And then

792
01:06:53.840 --> 01:07:00.719
also because it seems like the writer
Mychael Kiminski. I think that's what its

793
01:07:00.800 --> 01:07:06.719
name is. Yes, Michael Kaminski
is pulling quite liberally from gw Wrinsler is

794
01:07:06.760 --> 01:07:12.559
the making of Revenge of the Sith. But it's it's fun to watch Rick

795
01:07:12.639 --> 01:07:21.320
McCallan be like, George, you're
still not done with the script? Yeah,

796
01:07:21.480 --> 01:07:27.039
the dude on the dude and all
the marketing is just being like,

797
01:07:27.079 --> 01:07:30.679
wow, it was always like the
original. It was always meant to be

798
01:07:30.719 --> 01:07:34.000
Sick Hearts, which is not true. You can read Secret History of Star

799
01:07:34.039 --> 01:07:38.320
Wars and I'm sure pull up a
whole bunch of different other interviews whereas answer

800
01:07:38.400 --> 01:07:42.760
changes from nine to twelve to six
to three to six. Nothing's ever planned

801
01:07:42.760 --> 01:07:45.119
out, it's none of it.
None of it is played now and then

802
01:07:46.960 --> 01:07:53.360
like still still here. Lucas is
like creating things based off of art department

803
01:07:53.400 --> 01:08:00.559
stuff. Case in point, it
is hypothesized that the Grievous wasn't going to

804
01:08:00.599 --> 01:08:06.000
exist and instead DUCA was gonna last
until two thirds and then that's like Anakin

805
01:08:06.079 --> 01:08:11.000
kills Duke and that's how he turns
mm hmm. But then obviously that did

806
01:08:11.320 --> 01:08:15.239
happen and instead George walks in one
one day. It's just like, can

807
01:08:15.239 --> 01:08:18.399
you can you draw like a robot
general? You think that's gonna be probably

808
01:08:18.439 --> 01:08:27.600
a character? God damn, because
he's like episode two and I mean also

809
01:08:27.840 --> 01:08:31.359
kind of like the original Star Wars. Uh. The the art department is

810
01:08:31.359 --> 01:08:38.560
feeding the script development, script development
beating the art department because aesthetics, Yeah,

811
01:08:38.760 --> 01:08:43.199
like aesthetics and that you know,
it can be okay, but the

812
01:08:43.199 --> 01:08:48.560
the narrative around it is insulting and
it's and it's infantalizing for all of us.

813
01:08:48.600 --> 01:08:55.600
Okay, it's not It's not bad
to have the art department kind of

814
01:08:55.640 --> 01:08:59.479
dictate script development. Case in point, that Max Fierry Road, a film

815
01:08:59.760 --> 01:09:05.399
which allegedly does not have a screenplay, exists solely in storyboards. That's an

816
01:09:05.479 --> 01:09:11.039
art department movie baby, and an
editing murmer. Yeah, dude, I

817
01:09:11.079 --> 01:09:13.680
was saying about that where we talk
about it. That's fine. What what

818
01:09:13.800 --> 01:09:18.279
does become a problem is just shoddy
filmmaking and right, someone who is not

819
01:09:18.479 --> 01:09:28.000
entirely sure what the specifics are to
say. Case in point, the narrative

820
01:09:29.840 --> 01:09:34.079
about Anakin turning because he's trying to
say a pat right, it's it's messy

821
01:09:34.119 --> 01:09:40.640
as fuck. And also asmen,
that's the clean version. Oh Christ,

822
01:09:41.840 --> 01:09:48.800
Jesus H. Christ, the Son
of god Son in reading Secret History of

823
01:09:48.800 --> 01:09:53.039
Star Wars, which I'm sure you
can read about in JW. Wrinslaer's The

824
01:09:53.079 --> 01:10:00.680
Making of Revenge of the Set they're
talking about a lot. Uh, Anakin's

825
01:10:00.720 --> 01:10:05.359
turn was a little bit more.
It wasn't working in an earlier cut,

826
01:10:08.560 --> 01:10:14.239
and so George just pulled out as
much material as he could that wasn't Anakin

827
01:10:14.279 --> 01:10:21.640
focused right, And then at some
point they just said, I want you

828
01:10:21.680 --> 01:10:25.720
to book mark the rebellion thing.
We'll come back to that. We'll come

829
01:10:25.760 --> 01:10:30.800
back to that at least one,
Kenny, at least one or just some

830
01:10:30.880 --> 01:10:35.279
com Okay, but that makes them
like token scenes where you're just having scenes

831
01:10:35.319 --> 01:10:39.479
where you're just like, the girl
needs something to do, just like it's

832
01:10:39.640 --> 01:10:43.640
Commander Riker at the bottom of The
Enterprise and Star Trek Nemesis where he goes

833
01:10:43.680 --> 01:10:46.520
to fight the Vice really and I
watched that being like, but like,

834
01:10:46.600 --> 01:10:51.039
this doesn't need Kenny here. I
have no idea what you're talking about.

835
01:10:51.399 --> 01:11:00.680
Good Kenny. I'm not even like, no, it's not it's exactly perfectly

836
01:11:00.920 --> 01:11:04.399
what are you doing exactly like Commander
Riker and the Vice roy fight and Star

837
01:11:04.560 --> 01:11:14.680
Tech Nemesis? Is that a movie? Listen, there's a scene where pad

838
01:11:14.760 --> 01:11:16.520
Bey's like, do you think maybe
we're on the wrong side? And if

839
01:11:16.560 --> 01:11:19.319
I just had a little bit of
a scene where I saw her doing her

840
01:11:19.359 --> 01:11:23.479
fucking job. Where people were like, here's a concept. I would have

841
01:11:23.479 --> 01:11:25.600
been like, oh, there's a
little more off to this, and that's

842
01:11:25.640 --> 01:11:30.800
all I needed, Kenny, Sorry, So they took out everything I didn't

843
01:11:30.800 --> 01:11:35.880
have to do with his own stupid
little journey go on the most critical journey

844
01:11:35.920 --> 01:11:40.279
that he needed to land in all
of these freek walls in terms of audience

845
01:11:40.319 --> 01:11:45.720
expectation, and he shirt certainly didn't
land it because the turner is conky heck.

846
01:11:45.800 --> 01:11:50.279
But also it was, at least
according to reading the Secret History of

847
01:11:50.319 --> 01:11:54.279
Star Wars, it was just a
lot more muddied. It was a combination

848
01:11:54.319 --> 01:11:58.760
of a whole bunch of different factors, whether it's just like protecting Palpatine and

849
01:11:59.079 --> 01:12:03.359
pride and power were all these things
and instead and dispersion just stripped out.

850
01:12:03.760 --> 01:12:09.199
And the turn is clear, which
is he wants to say pat sure,

851
01:12:11.439 --> 01:12:15.560
even though whenever the turn happens,
you're like, huh, what that seems?

852
01:12:18.359 --> 01:12:23.880
What sudden? Kenny? Yeah,
I have a question for you.

853
01:12:24.000 --> 01:12:29.760
Yeah, do you remember a few
episodes ago you were like, who do

854
01:12:29.840 --> 01:12:34.520
you think George sees himself as?
Yes, who did you say, I

855
01:12:34.640 --> 01:12:40.439
say Vader or not Vader? A
little boy Anakin starting out and then you

856
01:12:40.520 --> 01:12:46.039
think getting co opted by a system. Yes, yes, exactly, and

857
01:12:46.079 --> 01:12:51.319
that's exactly so he has now been
so and like that is the issue.

858
01:12:51.760 --> 01:12:57.199
So going back to the idea that
he could be coming in with very good

859
01:12:57.239 --> 01:13:02.199
ideas that are actually interesting more than
aesthetics, I am, I am interested.

860
01:13:03.239 --> 01:13:09.199
Now all he's got things to say. He does not agree with our

861
01:13:09.239 --> 01:13:13.199
engagements. In two thousand and five
he puts the words, if you're not

862
01:13:13.279 --> 01:13:16.079
with me, then you're my enemy
in an environment where I don't know whenever

863
01:13:16.439 --> 01:13:21.119
the Dixie Chicks got canceled quote unquote, no they did, they got they

864
01:13:21.119 --> 01:13:27.920
got they got black for being like
the Iraq War is bad. Yep.

865
01:13:28.279 --> 01:13:32.720
And here's a piece of popular entertainment
that is dare making the now direct parallel

866
01:13:33.319 --> 01:13:40.319
yep, yep, as opposed to
direct in in the past, where you're

867
01:13:40.359 --> 01:13:45.840
just like the e Woks are kind
of the viet Cong in the Imperials are

868
01:13:45.920 --> 01:13:54.439
kind of America, even though they're
all talking British. It's your your aesthetics,

869
01:13:54.520 --> 01:14:00.560
aesthetics, esthetics. But now,
yeah, he is just like here

870
01:14:00.159 --> 01:14:05.840
right here, here, here is
the text. So although he's not as

871
01:14:05.840 --> 01:14:09.560
opposed to like how Rodden Berryer would
do it. He would be like,

872
01:14:10.359 --> 01:14:18.199
uh, imperial and America, I
hate it. Oh, don't act.

873
01:14:19.079 --> 01:14:25.119
And again that's the son of God
own so much Star Trek. He owns

874
01:14:25.159 --> 01:14:31.399
so much Star Trek. I so
his you think, you think someone making

875
01:14:31.479 --> 01:14:36.840
such a clear statement of look what
our policies will get us. It will

876
01:14:36.880 --> 01:14:45.279
get us to this kind of neoliberal
bent of the way that these kinds of

877
01:14:45.439 --> 01:14:48.760
globalization, but also not just globalization, the way that we can invade into

878
01:14:48.800 --> 01:14:54.239
all these other spaces to take resources
and we don't care about actual life because

879
01:14:54.279 --> 01:15:00.399
it's only about market and moneyed interests. Look at where it takes. So

880
01:15:00.439 --> 01:15:06.119
he has this clear perspective and yet
does not follow through. So if you're

881
01:15:06.119 --> 01:15:09.800
not with me, you're against me, just becomes another aesthetic choice. It

882
01:15:09.840 --> 01:15:13.560
becomes we come out yeah, And
it's such a disappointment. And so he

883
01:15:13.680 --> 01:15:16.640
ultimately right, He is the one
ultimately co opted by the system, which

884
01:15:16.680 --> 01:15:19.640
you know comes up later in the
ways that he like engages with it.

885
01:15:19.960 --> 01:15:25.640
But even in this film, it's
just which maybe it's it's the only I

886
01:15:25.680 --> 01:15:30.039
feel like I might be one of
the only readings of this film unless you're

887
01:15:30.079 --> 01:15:33.520
like taking it in contact with the
rest of the Clone Wars apparently, but

888
01:15:33.640 --> 01:15:38.239
like, if you're just viewing the
prequels as a creative statement from an a

889
01:15:38.399 --> 01:15:44.199
tour, the only way that this
whole thing might work is engaging with it

890
01:15:44.279 --> 01:15:46.560
through the lens of George Lucas and
a tour theory of being like, what

891
01:15:46.680 --> 01:15:51.199
is this dude trying to say?
Yeah, which means that the only narrative

892
01:15:51.279 --> 01:16:00.279
juice that these prequels have that is
remotely interesting, like actually, in truth,

893
01:16:00.319 --> 01:16:04.399
stay it's having the metatextual narrative who
George Lucas is, what he means

894
01:16:04.439 --> 01:16:09.880
to the environment, and then coming
in of being like is anakin the George

895
01:16:09.960 --> 01:16:13.800
Lucas cerk And then you could be
able to be like, then here's a

896
01:16:13.840 --> 01:16:23.640
POV that is interesting and possibly kind
of clee. And that's disappointing to me

897
01:16:24.119 --> 01:16:30.000
because if it were actually for this
story's sake, as opposed to this like

898
01:16:30.279 --> 01:16:35.680
extra textual autruur theory, then and
I'm not a filmmaker, I'm not even

899
01:16:35.720 --> 01:16:42.279
a writer. I'm not an art
department worker. But if you were,

900
01:16:42.359 --> 01:16:45.520
if you actually have a clarity of
an emotional arc, it shouldn't be that

901
01:16:45.680 --> 01:16:50.960
hard to figure out how someone would
fall to empire, to fascism. It's

902
01:16:51.000 --> 01:16:57.720
also, i mean, the biggest
both of us agree, and we've already

903
01:16:57.720 --> 01:17:01.479
stated on this episode Episode one best
of the prequels. That doesn't make it

904
01:17:01.520 --> 01:17:05.479
a good movie, but it's the
best because it is of itself. Yes,

905
01:17:06.439 --> 01:17:14.960
the problem is that these movies suffer
from prequel itis. Yeah, he

906
01:17:15.000 --> 01:17:19.399
had not only that, it's prequels
to what can arguably called the most important

907
01:17:19.399 --> 01:17:26.600
films in modern cinema history. Sure, so there is a built in end

908
01:17:26.640 --> 01:17:33.319
point, and Lucas did not give
himself the runway to explore these things because

909
01:17:33.359 --> 01:17:41.920
he was not He'll say it first, he's not a great writer, but

910
01:17:41.960 --> 01:17:45.399
he's got to do it, probably
because he has control issues and because none

911
01:17:45.439 --> 01:17:46.960
of his friends were like, I
don't want to write a Star Wars because

912
01:17:47.000 --> 01:17:50.600
I know it's going to be involved. It's it's your thing, we know,

913
01:17:51.760 --> 01:18:08.439
right. There's another piece from this
Jesse Eeral Jesse Gender video about about

914
01:18:08.600 --> 01:18:12.479
the hero's journey and of course like
there's something to Star Wars kind of becoming

915
01:18:12.560 --> 01:18:17.920
this sort of like picture of the
hero's journey. Yes, and Joseph Campbell

916
01:18:17.920 --> 01:18:24.479
being a real bucking piece of shit
idiot who yeah, who like a person

917
01:18:24.520 --> 01:18:27.279
who said, okay, look,
here are all the stories that we have.

918
01:18:27.399 --> 01:18:30.720
But then Cherry picked his stories and
totally ignored other different stories from different

919
01:18:30.720 --> 01:18:34.159
countries or different cultures and decided on
what it was going to look like and

920
01:18:34.640 --> 01:18:39.840
also decided that it had to be
male centric and it was just bullshit all

921
01:18:39.880 --> 01:18:43.920
around. And I think the fundamental
thing about and what you're saying, the

922
01:18:43.920 --> 01:18:46.560
fundamental thing about a hero's journey is
it has to kind of loop back around,

923
01:18:47.039 --> 01:18:49.800
like that is the journey itself,
and we kind of come back and

924
01:18:49.880 --> 01:18:57.239
with these different stories, we've come
back again to a status quo and a

925
01:18:57.279 --> 01:19:01.119
real story, a true story,
a bit of me that's around, Like

926
01:19:01.199 --> 01:19:08.960
what does it look like to engage
with Like structural change might actually like you

927
01:19:09.039 --> 01:19:11.800
know, obviously you're different, the
world might be different, but we're still

928
01:19:11.800 --> 01:19:15.039
status quo, right because I see
your face, I would be actually thinking

929
01:19:15.039 --> 01:19:19.880
about Campbell and at least the way
that I understand mono myth, which is

930
01:19:21.600 --> 01:19:28.119
I think radically mischaracterized by the general
populace, which is to say that it's

931
01:19:28.119 --> 01:19:33.039
not It becomes a story prescription by
cynical Hollywood who is just like formula cool,

932
01:19:33.439 --> 01:19:38.960
monetize and as opposed to how Campbell, which I'm not certainly not an

933
01:19:39.000 --> 01:19:45.399
endorsement of Campbell, but he's that
he's functioning from the lens of a story

934
01:19:45.439 --> 01:19:49.880
anthropologist and being like, what are
the commonalities with which again he was cherry

935
01:19:49.920 --> 01:19:55.720
picked, certainly, but he's not
even saying it has to be prescriptive.

936
01:19:55.800 --> 01:19:59.920
It's just like, here're the commonality
is that I see, this is the

937
01:20:00.039 --> 01:20:03.479
Yeah, this is what is common
to stories, and this is and and

938
01:20:04.159 --> 01:20:08.600
but I think and so, yeah, let's take the value out of it.

939
01:20:08.720 --> 01:20:11.159
This is just what was common to
a lot of stories. And it's

940
01:20:11.199 --> 01:20:13.880
like Star Wars is a really good
example of what we might call Star Wars

941
01:20:13.840 --> 01:20:18.479
is a really good example. He
actively talks about how it is, which

942
01:20:18.520 --> 01:20:25.479
is so fascinating because Lucas Star Wars
would nearly be as successful from a story

943
01:20:25.560 --> 01:20:30.359
perspective if Lucas had not walked backwards
into the Jesser Campbell monomyth in his search

944
01:20:30.399 --> 01:20:36.760
for a story to demonstrate his aesthetics, and Joseph Campbell wouldn't have nearly gotten

945
01:20:36.800 --> 01:20:43.039
the boost if uh, Star Wars
has not become part of kind of the

946
01:20:43.640 --> 01:20:50.359
extra marketing tool. Well, in
order for Star Wars to exist effectively,

947
01:20:50.399 --> 01:21:01.279
there always has to be a conflict. So you cannot when sorry, give

948
01:21:01.319 --> 01:21:09.520
me one second, someone just knock. No, Okay, that's sorry,

949
01:21:09.720 --> 01:21:19.960
that's weird, Like you cannot like
ultimately actually disassemble the system because the system

950
01:21:20.000 --> 01:21:25.079
has to be there for the conflict
to persist in this way, I mean

951
01:21:25.439 --> 01:21:30.319
the neoliberal forces that are talking exactly, that's exactly the market, Like the

952
01:21:30.359 --> 01:21:33.000
market takes there must be more Star
Wars. Therefore a new conflict must be

953
01:21:34.039 --> 01:21:36.800
That's the meta narrative, like,
that's the piece to it is just like

954
01:21:36.880 --> 01:21:40.840
by nature of the nature of Star
Wars, like it has to continue to

955
01:21:40.920 --> 01:21:44.680
go. It cannot. It cannot
actually achieve what a real story of Star

956
01:21:44.760 --> 01:21:51.239
Wars like something which would be we've
actually achieved justice, which is actually broken.

957
01:21:51.520 --> 01:21:57.640
Last Jedi, it's so great because
it's the one that makes that subtext

958
01:21:57.680 --> 01:22:00.600
into text and being like, isn't
it weird that all these or worth keep

959
01:22:00.600 --> 01:22:05.039
happening. That's the first one to
be like what why why? Sorry?

960
01:22:05.359 --> 01:22:09.319
Joel came back in. He did
knock? I thought I heard a knock.

961
01:22:09.760 --> 01:22:12.079
He's here, what's he here to
say? Is he here to yell

962
01:22:12.079 --> 01:22:17.000
at me? What's he gonna say? Okay, why the fuck are they

963
01:22:17.039 --> 01:22:28.600
speaking basic? He's gone. I
can't answer that question. It's gone.

964
01:22:28.720 --> 01:22:32.560
I can't answer that question. That's
an asking question. I'm pretty sure it

965
01:22:32.600 --> 01:22:44.319
has to do with like what racial
superiority perceived racial superiority? Right, Yeah,

966
01:22:44.520 --> 01:22:47.920
I just got an answer. Yeah, I'm sure. Yeah, that's

967
01:22:48.479 --> 01:22:51.800
yeah, probably that that's a really
good question. Actually, that was a

968
01:22:51.800 --> 01:22:56.439
good callback. What are we getting
at? What are we talking about?

969
01:22:56.479 --> 01:23:00.239
What's happening right now? Well we
are? I think, oh, you

970
01:23:00.319 --> 01:23:04.520
know what I was going to do. This goes back to I mean,

971
01:23:05.520 --> 01:23:14.000
a fundamental structural conceit that Georgie Porgy
brings to the table that he is.

972
01:23:14.680 --> 01:23:17.359
As we've said, he's wanting to
demonstrate aesthetics. He's always in search of

973
01:23:17.359 --> 01:23:23.199
a story, and want better way
to demonstrate aesthetics than by taking from what

974
01:23:23.239 --> 01:23:28.279
you've done previously. Againess like poetry, so if they rhyme and so suddenly

975
01:23:28.479 --> 01:23:31.960
in search of in search of aesthetics, because I believe he backed into something

976
01:23:32.079 --> 01:23:39.000
meaningful. The circle theory, all
of this has happened before, all of

977
01:23:39.000 --> 01:23:43.600
this will happen again, and so
they are just participating in loops. Textually.

978
01:23:45.279 --> 01:23:50.479
George here I think is not competent. Well, some of it's intentional,

979
01:23:50.560 --> 01:23:55.880
some of it's unintentional, repeating certain
bits. He knows that repeating certain

980
01:23:55.920 --> 01:23:58.760
bits. He wants it to be
like poetry. It's sort of so so

981
01:23:58.800 --> 01:24:01.680
that they rhyme. A lot of
it comes out clonking and kind of pandering.

982
01:24:01.760 --> 01:24:06.680
Some of it does become meaningful,
but it doesn't actually become textual until

983
01:24:08.439 --> 01:24:15.319
Last Jedi, and instead it's just
kind of subtext. I'm not sure if

984
01:24:15.319 --> 01:24:18.680
there's a meaning to that, and
I except to be like the Last Jedi

985
01:24:18.800 --> 01:24:23.199
is a great ending point for the
Skywalker socca. Yeah, I'm so glad

986
01:24:23.239 --> 01:24:28.880
they stopped it there and to bring
it back to Star Trek to Bread and

987
01:24:28.920 --> 01:24:32.399
Circuses. Oh yeah, I love
Star Trek. You kidding me? Gires,

988
01:24:32.439 --> 01:24:38.720
Bred and Circuses? Did you right? That's your did love that car?

989
01:24:41.199 --> 01:24:44.079
It's that same I do think that
same metatextual, that kind of meta

990
01:24:44.159 --> 01:24:48.319
narrative of what is the demand of
the studio, Like what is the demand

991
01:24:48.520 --> 01:24:53.520
of you know, we are making
that episode is making a comment on the

992
01:24:53.600 --> 01:24:57.359
idea of like Soma for the masses
kind of thing of you know, I'm

993
01:24:57.399 --> 01:25:01.720
being giving them. This is televised
it for your entertainment. You are given

994
01:25:01.760 --> 01:25:06.680
these things to forget that you are
enslaved. That is the commentary on it

995
01:25:06.720 --> 01:25:11.199
while still existing within a system in
which that is. That is the case,

996
01:25:11.199 --> 01:25:13.840
and you said it yourself like they're
aware of it, but they're still

997
01:25:13.840 --> 01:25:17.199
not quite hitting it as hard as
they could because they can't. Like they

998
01:25:17.199 --> 01:25:21.479
can do a lot, but it
still can't. This is how fast they're

999
01:25:21.520 --> 01:25:26.279
able to make that commentary. They're
able to make that satire on a network,

1000
01:25:26.319 --> 01:25:30.640
which is being like we should say
they can't. We should be fucking

1001
01:25:30.720 --> 01:25:33.560
stupid. They're stupid. Yeah,
that's also fair. They also can't because

1002
01:25:33.600 --> 01:25:38.399
Jean Rod Mary could go book himself. Just to be very clear, they

1003
01:25:38.439 --> 01:25:42.279
can't for many reasons. Yeah,
it means Star Trek exists best in the

1004
01:25:42.319 --> 01:25:46.079
future whatever. It's taken out of
his hands, which is kind of sad.

1005
01:25:46.800 --> 01:25:50.039
You still like me e him and
I yel love you kidding okay,

1006
01:25:50.159 --> 01:26:00.079
and we love you audience. Thank
you so much for listening with you.

1007
01:26:00.119 --> 01:26:12.039
No, I've got so much to
sire. Goddamn god, damn the fuck.

1008
01:26:14.640 --> 01:26:19.960
Yeah, So do you remember in
the bread and circuses when he sleeps

1009
01:26:20.159 --> 01:26:24.600
with an enslaved lament. Honestly,
I was just like, hmm, that's

1010
01:26:24.640 --> 01:26:28.439
pretty dicey. Uh. I appreciate
you being like, no, dude,

1011
01:26:28.439 --> 01:26:33.680
that's sexual assault. Thanks, thanks, thanks, appreciate You're welcome. Sorry,

1012
01:26:34.319 --> 01:26:40.720
sorry that my white dude in this
was just being like difficult misogyny.

1013
01:26:40.800 --> 01:26:50.119
Anyways, it is a pretty just
your regular type of which is fine because

1014
01:26:50.119 --> 01:26:55.199
it's you know, what we do. I am used to it because I

1015
01:26:55.279 --> 01:26:58.399
live in a much like the Joker
would say, live in a society.

1016
01:26:59.039 --> 01:27:02.479
Yeah we do. Anyways. Episode
three was first supposed to start off with

1017
01:27:02.520 --> 01:27:10.960
a montage on seven battles on seven
New Planets. M hmm, what else?

1018
01:27:11.800 --> 01:27:15.039
Padme was not supposed to die with
because of a broken heart, but

1019
01:27:15.119 --> 01:27:25.239
instead possibly either having made it escaped
to Aldron or with UH on an operating

1020
01:27:25.279 --> 01:27:31.640
table because you know UH and it
can crush her windpipe. Why why couldn't

1021
01:27:31.640 --> 01:27:35.720
they just have her have just die
because he killed her? Like I could

1022
01:27:35.760 --> 01:27:40.039
tell. I could tell that George
was like, I need her to die

1023
01:27:40.119 --> 01:27:45.119
here because I need it to be
a visual parallel of him turning into Darth

1024
01:27:45.199 --> 01:27:47.199
Vader while she dies, Like I
get it. They're both on fucking like

1025
01:27:47.239 --> 01:27:49.800
tables and shit like I can see
it, and she's all in white and

1026
01:27:49.840 --> 01:27:53.279
he's all in black. Blah blah
blah. I see what you're doing,

1027
01:27:53.319 --> 01:27:56.600
George. Why not just have her
die because he crushed her wind pipe?

1028
01:27:56.640 --> 01:28:00.760
Are you sure that you're the Star
Wars contention of this podcast. I like

1029
01:28:00.840 --> 01:28:05.279
a lot of shit. I don't
can you tell I don't like either of

1030
01:28:05.319 --> 01:28:11.199
these, But last week I liked
him boat so much. I think there's

1031
01:28:11.199 --> 01:28:17.279
a lot of stuff to talk about
in regards because they are at least swinging

1032
01:28:17.359 --> 01:28:23.800
wildly in terms of trying to say
something, and I as opposed to like

1033
01:28:23.960 --> 01:28:31.199
something that I feel is devoid of
attempting to really say something like The Force

1034
01:28:31.239 --> 01:28:36.520
Awakens. Oh, I'm now way
anti Force Awakens. I remember sitting in

1035
01:28:36.560 --> 01:28:42.359
that theater in twenty fifteen and being
like that movie was a stinker. I

1036
01:28:42.399 --> 01:28:44.720
loved it the first time I saw
I saw with Heidi, first time I

1037
01:28:44.760 --> 01:28:47.640
ever saw it with Heidi? Who
is who is? Who is? Who

1038
01:28:47.680 --> 01:28:50.159
is Heidi? Why don't you tell
us who Heidi is? She? My

1039
01:28:50.319 --> 01:29:00.800
girl? Yeah, she's so.
I saw Force Awakened with and I was

1040
01:29:00.880 --> 01:29:02.640
thrilled and very excited to watch that
movie, and I think it's what Heidi

1041
01:29:02.880 --> 01:29:05.399
made Heidi want to watch movies with
me, because I think I did spend

1042
01:29:05.399 --> 01:29:10.079
the whole time going bah and making
a lot of noises and moving my body

1043
01:29:10.079 --> 01:29:13.680
a lot. Yeah, uh yeah, And that movie set the palette for

1044
01:29:14.000 --> 01:29:16.319
what we thought we wanted from Star
Wars. And now everyone hates the sequel

1045
01:29:16.359 --> 01:29:24.079
trilogy and is now like the prequel
prequel is actually rual, so we don't

1046
01:29:24.079 --> 01:29:29.119
deserve it. Yeah, that's right, or maybe we do. It's not

1047
01:29:29.199 --> 01:29:32.680
the Internet we need to see Internet
we deserve. Hey, that's actually what

1048
01:29:32.720 --> 01:29:36.479
it is. Let's see previous was
a creation. Uh that being said,

1049
01:29:36.720 --> 01:29:43.199
broken clock is correct twice, and
I will say, yeah, I am

1050
01:29:43.880 --> 01:29:48.560
genuinely shocked. It seems that the
Tragedy of dark Plagus the Wise was written

1051
01:29:48.560 --> 01:29:55.560
by George Yeah. I find that
extremely hard to believe, because it's really

1052
01:29:55.600 --> 01:30:01.760
good and it is extremely well acted. Everyone nails it. The mi'son sane

1053
01:30:02.000 --> 01:30:06.640
of setting it out the opera,
like everything about that scene just oh that's

1054
01:30:06.760 --> 01:30:14.439
great. A beautiful, wild opera
with like the flying steaks and the brood

1055
01:30:15.760 --> 01:30:20.199
the whole time, and it's Jan
mcdermidd being an incredible actor. It's so

1056
01:30:20.279 --> 01:30:25.960
good, it's mass it's so good. It's so good. That's a great

1057
01:30:26.000 --> 01:30:30.840
it's a great scene. It's beautiful, and you can tell like Christian Hayden

1058
01:30:30.880 --> 01:30:36.079
Christiansen, Christian Haydensen, Hayden Christiansen
is like having a real emotional time.

1059
01:30:36.359 --> 01:30:39.680
No, you're right. He's a
good eye actor, is a good face

1060
01:30:39.720 --> 01:30:45.800
actor. He presents sadness whenever very
easily. Uh, because it's hard to

1061
01:30:45.840 --> 01:30:49.720
deliver this dialogue. Even back in
nineteen seventy seven. Uh, the actor

1062
01:30:49.800 --> 01:30:53.119
was being like, uh, you
can write this stuff, George, but

1063
01:30:53.159 --> 01:30:57.319
you can't say it. And you
see the prequels kind of prove that because

1064
01:30:57.319 --> 01:31:01.520
he forgets to give them the direction
of faster and more intense. But as

1065
01:31:01.560 --> 01:31:05.239
I told you in texts and I'll
say it again, whenever this movie strips

1066
01:31:05.279 --> 01:31:10.640
the dialogue out, I think Revenge
of the Sith becomes a successful thing.

1067
01:31:13.079 --> 01:31:15.920
The Darth Plaga scene is great.
And then the other fabulous scene that I

1068
01:31:16.000 --> 01:31:20.359
absolutely love is whenever Anakin and Padme
are looking across the city at each other,

1069
01:31:21.119 --> 01:31:25.199
just kind of reaching out to the
forest. They're doing sad looks and

1070
01:31:25.239 --> 01:31:30.640
I'm just like this is unusually patient, and this is just tone, this

1071
01:31:30.680 --> 01:31:36.800
is just mood. And if the
prequels were filled with more of these kinds

1072
01:31:36.800 --> 01:31:44.560
of scenes, perhaps that we as
an audience would find a lot more meaning.

1073
01:31:45.319 --> 01:31:50.159
Yeah, it's like the music is
doing the thinking and they're just looking

1074
01:31:50.159 --> 01:31:55.680
at each other. And then Hayden
Christensen's performance like radically improves whenever you strip

1075
01:31:55.720 --> 01:31:59.560
the dialogue away and he's just he's
just brooding, right, I mean,

1076
01:31:59.680 --> 01:32:03.279
which if he maybe had had good
dialogue, you can deliver a better direction

1077
01:32:03.399 --> 01:32:08.399
at all. Yeah, I mean
same for poor Natalie Portman. I think

1078
01:32:08.439 --> 01:32:13.920
a good actor having to be like
having to be like what He's like,

1079
01:32:13.960 --> 01:32:17.640
You're so beautiful and she's like,
I'm only so beautiful? What is she?

1080
01:32:18.720 --> 01:32:21.680
Which was cere at least according Secret
History of Star Wars. That's a

1081
01:32:21.720 --> 01:32:27.520
rewrite so they can place more importance
on the relationship from the beginning, not

1082
01:32:27.600 --> 01:32:33.479
a sun that was in the original
cut. Love this blinded Me? Well,

1083
01:32:33.560 --> 01:32:39.399
here's what you do. If you
want to make your romance actually be

1084
01:32:39.439 --> 01:32:44.840
a true motivational factor, make it. Make it good, make it good.

1085
01:32:45.239 --> 01:32:47.000
If you want your romance to be
good, you make it. When

1086
01:32:47.039 --> 01:32:53.279
Harry mets out yeah, you make
them be like Wow, turns out men

1087
01:32:53.319 --> 01:33:02.079
and women can never be friends ever. Man. Yeah, I it's for

1088
01:33:02.159 --> 01:33:06.359
some reason, because I know believe
me. I remember that. I was

1089
01:33:06.439 --> 01:33:10.800
like, I think I'm like into
this an attack of the clones. Maybe

1090
01:33:10.840 --> 01:33:15.560
if they put more of the love
theme in this, I would have felt

1091
01:33:15.560 --> 01:33:19.199
it more. But like or given
her more like I do think stripping her

1092
01:33:19.199 --> 01:33:24.079
of so much agency in character nothing
to do like, because the thing is

1093
01:33:24.079 --> 01:33:26.920
that if you have two people in
love, and you have someone who's driven

1094
01:33:27.000 --> 01:33:29.960
by relationship and by love, that
other person has to be a real fucking

1095
01:33:30.000 --> 01:33:33.920
person. Like It's not like he
cannot exist in a vacuum. It's just

1096
01:33:34.039 --> 01:33:39.199
insulting. It's so insulting, and
instead, like her function is just to

1097
01:33:39.239 --> 01:33:45.399
be like can't I can't Skywalker and
Leah Leah. You know, yeah,

1098
01:33:45.560 --> 01:33:50.520
she's just a baby holder. I'm
fine. Did you read I'm okay the

1099
01:33:50.560 --> 01:33:57.279
baby holder. I really love that
you wanted to cast Jason's state thum met

1100
01:33:57.359 --> 01:34:08.079
role reckon that needs you know,
I'm the one to do. I like

1101
01:34:08.119 --> 01:34:14.000
your stateum a lot more than mine. It sounds better when I were trying

1102
01:34:14.079 --> 01:34:16.800
relar. I'm excited to see your
Halloween costume as Jason stathum. Oh,

1103
01:34:16.880 --> 01:34:24.279
I would love it to be Oh
my god, there's this bit, there's

1104
01:34:24.279 --> 01:34:27.640
this, there's this, there's this
how did this get made? The best

1105
01:34:27.640 --> 01:34:32.640
podcast ever? Bit where it's except
for our bigra you sorry, which is

1106
01:34:32.640 --> 01:34:35.119
the best of God, what movie
is it? It's like, oh,

1107
01:34:35.159 --> 01:34:40.439
it's cellular. And there's just this
bit throughout the whole thing where Jason Statham

1108
01:34:40.520 --> 01:34:45.560
is supposed to be like a like
a like a los Angelina, like he's

1109
01:34:45.600 --> 01:34:49.039
truly from Los Angeles, but he
like kind of can't shake his English accent.

1110
01:34:50.239 --> 01:34:55.239
And so there's just this whole bit
was just like Jason's stateum Los Angeleino.

1111
01:34:58.319 --> 01:35:00.720
Just like naming all these Los Angeles
states is just like I gotta get

1112
01:35:00.800 --> 01:35:04.760
a drink, gotta go to Brifith
box to take your walk. You know,

1113
01:35:05.000 --> 01:35:11.800
it's just been all with like a
British It's such a good bit.

1114
01:35:12.239 --> 01:35:18.079
Anyway, Anyway, do you want
to play a game? I feel like

1115
01:35:18.119 --> 01:35:21.560
I could be talking about both of
these things for another hour because these are

1116
01:35:21.600 --> 01:35:28.000
such I like Brendon Sarcus is a
lot more than you do. That's fine,

1117
01:35:28.439 --> 01:35:35.439
I'm fine, I'm fine, but
it's just wait What the heck am

1118
01:35:35.479 --> 01:35:38.760
I doing? You were the one
that asked me to play the theme song?

1119
01:35:38.800 --> 01:35:45.319
Why am I missing out on this
opportunity a long time ago? Start

1120
01:35:45.399 --> 01:35:49.640
dating this week? I quoted a
boat, I dated a game, but

1121
01:35:49.880 --> 01:35:58.439
none of them could work mine.
Drive into highbers space. The best of

1122
01:35:58.560 --> 01:36:08.239
both worlds can be in the second
place, Captain slog on a holla kron,

1123
01:36:08.920 --> 01:36:14.720
I wanted a snog. I pend
a song. Seventeen more minutes advise

1124
01:36:14.920 --> 01:36:28.279
in super high dev aboard the USS
Enterprise DT. Don't you take my walk

1125
01:36:28.359 --> 01:36:32.039
lighter and clip it? Don't you
take my wretchird buddy and nip it?

1126
01:36:32.960 --> 01:36:38.399
If you spill the tea, I'm
gonna snip it. My starship it.

1127
01:36:39.520 --> 01:36:45.560
M h long time ask what are
we doing here? Oh? The best,

1128
01:36:45.840 --> 01:36:48.279
the best, best, best,
best game and the world I starship

1129
01:36:48.359 --> 01:36:54.840
it. Let's name our favorite starships
and our favorite romantic ships. Boy,

1130
01:36:54.880 --> 01:37:00.479
oh boy, do we have so
many, so many delicious starships and relationships

1131
01:37:00.600 --> 01:37:08.520
to choose? Rotten Oh yes,
indeed. In fact, now that you've

1132
01:37:08.520 --> 01:37:10.840
given me the name of Grieve as
his ship, I'm like, oh no,

1133
01:37:10.960 --> 01:37:15.159
but I there is a I've got
so many things I could choose I

1134
01:37:15.159 --> 01:37:19.960
could choose horse lizard as a vehicle
would love her so much. Choose grievous

1135
01:37:20.000 --> 01:37:26.800
is weird spinny wheel thing with legs. I could choose a sharktrode shuttle.

1136
01:37:28.600 --> 01:37:31.880
That's what it looks like. Oh
that's not called the invisible hand. The

1137
01:37:31.920 --> 01:37:35.199
invisible hand is is his ship,
and then that's a shuttle that comes from

1138
01:37:35.199 --> 01:37:40.680
it. I know the shuttle is
like squat and has a little fin.

1139
01:37:40.840 --> 01:37:45.279
I love it, but so a
bit ago. I incorrectly named a ship,

1140
01:37:45.960 --> 01:37:50.199
and I accidently confused it for this
ship. And now I finally get

1141
01:37:50.199 --> 01:37:55.920
the opportunity if I may go first, Yes, which is bail Orghana ship,

1142
01:37:55.960 --> 01:38:00.760
the tantep three, the tanti not
the my dear, this hand,

1143
01:38:00.800 --> 01:38:08.399
the Tanti three, not to be
famously confused with the Tante four, which

1144
01:38:08.520 --> 01:38:13.840
is no, that was not your
choice. Yep, this is this is

1145
01:38:13.880 --> 01:38:16.279
the same. This is the Shame
ship, because well, I mean this

1146
01:38:16.319 --> 01:38:21.039
is bail organa specific ship there is
like uh, and I believe this is

1147
01:38:21.079 --> 01:38:25.439
still his. It's a c R. Seventy court vet is what it's called,

1148
01:38:26.520 --> 01:38:31.039
and it is the one from I
believe a New Hope right because it's

1149
01:38:31.079 --> 01:38:36.399
Bail's like that's the that's the ship
that Leah is on, and you see

1150
01:38:36.399 --> 01:38:41.439
it here of course at the end
of Revenge of the Sith, because bail

1151
01:38:41.479 --> 01:38:45.960
Organa is doing uh, the lord's
work of rescuing. Uh, he's rescuing,

1152
01:38:46.520 --> 01:38:50.600
He's rescuing the narrative. So make
sure that anyone is watching this thing

1153
01:38:50.680 --> 01:38:54.960
could be like, oh, right, Star Wars episode three. Good it

1154
01:38:55.039 --> 01:38:57.720
ends up in the exact same place
at the beginning of the first one.

1155
01:38:57.760 --> 01:39:01.000
So there's no I'm not worried,
right right, It's we always have to,

1156
01:39:01.079 --> 01:39:05.479
Yeah, we come back to what
we are used to. It's it's

1157
01:39:05.520 --> 01:39:09.560
because, of course, the style
of it is, you know, it's

1158
01:39:09.600 --> 01:39:15.359
the kind of shouldn't talk about this, but I think we've talked about this

1159
01:39:15.720 --> 01:39:19.840
basically, right, which is the
idea of like the streamlined look of the

1160
01:39:19.920 --> 01:39:26.560
ships, you know, becoming of
course more uh square, but and kind

1161
01:39:26.600 --> 01:39:30.199
of getting more into the original style
of what you see in the original trilogy,

1162
01:39:30.600 --> 01:39:34.560
which you you know, I think
we can because we just understand this

1163
01:39:34.640 --> 01:39:39.119
to be like, oh, this
is because of like art production aesthetics.

1164
01:39:39.159 --> 01:39:42.800
But I think if we were to
like let's say, just like stay in

1165
01:39:42.920 --> 01:39:46.560
text and like make up a narrative
about it. I don't hate the idea

1166
01:39:46.600 --> 01:39:54.079
of it going from a style towards
something that's a lot more specifically brutalism.

1167
01:39:54.399 --> 01:39:57.840
Effectively, it's also intentional. I
mean the art department it is okay,

1168
01:39:57.840 --> 01:40:00.960
good, perfect, it's it's a
combination of both them. I mean,

1169
01:40:00.600 --> 01:40:03.359
recognizing that they need to try it
out more of the all familiar, but

1170
01:40:03.399 --> 01:40:08.000
at the same time the art department
is just like, we're starting off sleek

1171
01:40:08.399 --> 01:40:13.960
now, and then as things get
worse, it gets a lot blockier,

1172
01:40:14.600 --> 01:40:18.960
right, And yeah, and there
is there are actual historical inspirations for that,

1173
01:40:19.399 --> 01:40:25.920
and here I can show that.
So his his ship, of course,

1174
01:40:26.000 --> 01:40:29.520
is blockier, but it's so beautiful. It's bright white inside. Of

1175
01:40:29.560 --> 01:40:33.720
course, as we know, still
it might be very like square in shape

1176
01:40:33.720 --> 01:40:39.279
on the inside with everything, but
it's it's very beautiful, and it's the

1177
01:40:39.319 --> 01:40:43.439
shape of it's really super interesting.
And I'm just I've always loved that ship.

1178
01:40:43.800 --> 01:40:46.079
Yeap, so uh, I'm going
to go to the map for General

1179
01:40:46.079 --> 01:40:54.520
Grievous's shuttle, the soulless one,
the shark Trode. Uh yet yes that's

1180
01:40:54.520 --> 01:40:57.840
not the one at the beginning,
but like the one after. I've even

1181
01:40:57.920 --> 01:41:00.720
talked about General Grievs in this movie, and the fact that he gets his

1182
01:41:00.960 --> 01:41:12.039
heart, so his heart gets shot, it explodes, his eyes catch fire.

1183
01:41:12.199 --> 01:41:15.600
This is a kid's movie. His
heart. You see his heart pump

1184
01:41:16.920 --> 01:41:26.039
OPI wan shoots his heart, his
eyes exploding fire. It's fucking horrified,

1185
01:41:27.560 --> 01:41:34.399
especially given the fact that now we
know that like he was purposely blowed up

1186
01:41:34.760 --> 01:41:39.800
so that they could turn him into
that cyborg creature, and then these parts

1187
01:41:39.800 --> 01:41:44.520
of him that remained organic or his
heart and as lungs presumably, I guess.

1188
01:41:45.640 --> 01:41:47.079
Oh, but I told you about
this. I told you all about

1189
01:41:47.119 --> 01:41:49.600
this, don't you remember. Well, yeah, but like I didn't know

1190
01:41:49.600 --> 01:41:56.079
this when I was watching it,
because this is General Grievous watching this in

1191
01:41:56.119 --> 01:41:58.279
two thousand and five. Well,
you know what now, Yeah, I

1192
01:41:58.279 --> 01:42:00.760
don't know. You know now,
what do you think in two thousand and

1193
01:42:00.760 --> 01:42:09.800
five? Cool? It's very horrified. Four armed very cool? You know

1194
01:42:09.840 --> 01:42:14.199
what's cool? More? Yeah?
As a person now where I'm like,

1195
01:42:14.960 --> 01:42:17.399
I think the best lightsaber fight is
the Force Awakens because there's a lot of

1196
01:42:17.479 --> 01:42:24.600
tension, which is true actually being
one of my least favorite Star Wars movies,

1197
01:42:25.560 --> 01:42:30.000
I think I think it's the least
favorite because the first thirty minutes of

1198
01:42:30.000 --> 01:42:35.239
that movie rips, and then the
lightsaber fight at the end of that movie

1199
01:42:35.279 --> 01:42:45.560
is so good and brutal. Yeah, I I I contend to the best

1200
01:42:45.560 --> 01:42:50.159
ones in the Last Jedi in the
Throne Room. That's trust me. It's

1201
01:42:50.159 --> 01:42:54.520
just Fatten, but one of the
best thing seen in my life. Ryan

1202
01:42:54.600 --> 01:43:00.720
Johnson understands populist cinema. Yeah,
so okay, so no, no,

1203
01:43:00.720 --> 01:43:08.840
no, go back to tell me. This is my U of the three

1204
01:43:09.000 --> 01:43:13.600
iterations of Grievous, my least favorite, but I still fucking love him and

1205
01:43:13.680 --> 01:43:18.039
I will not be I will not
be apologizing your your new favorites being,

1206
01:43:18.079 --> 01:43:23.680
of course the two D it is
getting dragged away by a Chu train.

1207
01:43:25.680 --> 01:43:28.960
My second favorite is just The Clone
Wars, where he's also great, which

1208
01:43:29.000 --> 01:43:32.800
I gotta say, in your Grievous
rankings, I'm taking a huge V on

1209
01:43:32.840 --> 01:43:39.119
my victory wall, which you know
it's conveniently you know. Yeah, it's

1210
01:43:39.159 --> 01:43:42.920
the Venturess. I like the Venturess
of the Clone Wars better, but I

1211
01:43:42.960 --> 01:43:47.880
do love the Ventures of Clone Wars. Irses about aesthetics. The Clone Wars

1212
01:43:47.920 --> 01:43:53.119
is worried about story. You have
to understand how much I love Grievous.

1213
01:43:53.680 --> 01:43:58.159
Everybody who hates him, I'm like, I love his like four he's he's

1214
01:43:58.520 --> 01:44:01.720
he's got a collections arms it apart
and anyways, I'm talking about the soulless

1215
01:44:01.760 --> 01:44:06.439
one. That's but he can also
crawl like a weird bug I saw Clone

1216
01:44:06.479 --> 01:44:13.600
Wars. Okay, he's horrific.
I love him. Go on, speaking

1217
01:44:13.600 --> 01:44:17.359
of horrific, the soulless one is
anything but the aspen defying shark joke.

1218
01:44:18.000 --> 01:44:25.039
I think it is a beautiful homage
to art deco looks, it's silver,

1219
01:44:25.439 --> 01:44:30.520
its shiny, kind of looks like
the animated series Batmobile in terms of the

1220
01:44:30.520 --> 01:44:32.159
cockpit being all the way in the
back of the rest of the ship is

1221
01:44:32.239 --> 01:44:40.640
just engine. I love starships that
look clean and sleek and shiny. It

1222
01:44:41.079 --> 01:44:45.119
just is cool. This isn't the
one I'm thinking of, but I like

1223
01:44:45.199 --> 01:44:48.880
this one. The one I was
talking about is the shuttle that comes out

1224
01:44:48.920 --> 01:44:54.319
like the escape shuttle at the very
beginning. But this is beautiful. The

1225
01:44:54.359 --> 01:45:00.479
big ball Yeah, but it's like
shortened fat anyway, shark. Yeah,

1226
01:45:00.720 --> 01:45:04.640
how many times can I say it? I love this ship. Oh my

1227
01:45:04.720 --> 01:45:08.039
gosh, you're right, this is
a good choice. Well, what other

1228
01:45:08.079 --> 01:45:17.520
ships do you like asthma, romantic
ships, romantic ships. Here's my romantic

1229
01:45:17.560 --> 01:45:20.199
ship. Let me think about it, Let me think, let me think,

1230
01:45:20.279 --> 01:45:23.199
let me think, let me think. I got this, I got

1231
01:45:23.239 --> 01:45:26.279
this, I got this. There's
so many things to choose from. It's

1232
01:45:26.279 --> 01:45:29.199
always so funny. I always really
think about the ships these days, but

1233
01:45:29.199 --> 01:45:39.000
I always forget about the romantic ship. I'm gonna go for what's his name?

1234
01:45:40.840 --> 01:45:47.800
Not a great start asment the formerly
enslaved man Spartacus. What's his name?

1235
01:45:47.840 --> 01:46:01.920
Not Spartacus Marcus, Marthas Gallivant,
Gavantus, Grantibus. Wowly Maximus Kendalus,

1236
01:46:02.199 --> 01:46:11.640
I remember, because I am the
star trek Quintus embarrassing Aurelius Marcus.

1237
01:46:11.760 --> 01:46:16.279
Well, anyway, man Flavius Flavius, because I wrote down the great joke

1238
01:46:19.000 --> 01:46:30.199
that is really good Flavius and McCoy. So Flavius is introduced at the beginning.

1239
01:46:30.199 --> 01:46:34.720
They're actually found by this this group
of sun worshippers, which, wow,

1240
01:46:34.760 --> 01:46:45.079
what a surprise. Oh Jesus kill
me. And he's all like,

1241
01:46:45.239 --> 01:46:53.760
I don't know, and they he
gets captured with them, and he's like

1242
01:46:53.960 --> 01:46:58.680
forced to fight in these gladiatorial games, and he's specifically forced to fight against

1243
01:46:58.920 --> 01:47:02.439
McCoy, which he's very upset about. The other guy just like starts going

1244
01:47:02.520 --> 01:47:06.079
out Spock, but it's him and
McCoy, who is not nearly as strong

1245
01:47:06.399 --> 01:47:10.119
as Spock is. Of course,
he's not a fighter, he's a doctor.

1246
01:47:10.640 --> 01:47:15.760
He's doctrinal a fighter, and uh, he's trying not to hurt him,

1247
01:47:15.760 --> 01:47:18.880
and he's clearly very upset, and
all the while he's getting like whipped

1248
01:47:18.960 --> 01:47:24.520
and told that he's going to tank
the ratings if he doesn't actually fight him,

1249
01:47:25.479 --> 01:47:31.119
and he I just feel like that
is a beautiful connection of him trying

1250
01:47:31.159 --> 01:47:35.319
to care for him and take care
of him, and you know that they

1251
01:47:35.319 --> 01:47:39.239
had like a little thing as they
were going back and forth with their little

1252
01:47:39.279 --> 01:47:45.119
sword fight. Also later on,
because he's a badass, he sacrifices himself

1253
01:47:45.720 --> 01:47:50.720
to save Spot, to save Kirk
comes out and he's just extraordinary. And

1254
01:47:50.720 --> 01:47:55.760
then afterwards McCoy's just like flavious and
he's just like, oh no, and

1255
01:47:55.800 --> 01:47:58.840
he's just like, well, Buggy
says something like, oh what a guy.

1256
01:48:00.600 --> 01:48:03.520
Oh no, your lost dead love. That's mine, that's my ship.

1257
01:48:08.039 --> 01:48:12.600
Let's see some of my joke answers
could be Count Dooku and his head.

1258
01:48:14.199 --> 01:48:17.960
What loves his head? Uh?
And he dies without it, that's

1259
01:48:18.000 --> 01:48:23.760
how much he loves it. Um. It could be Aura and Jesus.

1260
01:48:24.840 --> 01:48:30.479
Oh my god, those are good
joke answers. You I'm going to go

1261
01:48:30.640 --> 01:48:33.640
with Bail and his wife. Oh
I almost said that. Let's talking about

1262
01:48:33.720 --> 01:48:44.439
Jimmy Smith's who is in episodes two
and three as Bai. Yep, he

1263
01:48:44.520 --> 01:48:47.479
might be too good for these movies. M hm. Of course many of

1264
01:48:47.520 --> 01:48:51.520
the actors are too good for these
movies. True, who was not too

1265
01:48:51.520 --> 01:49:01.239
good for these movies? Anthony Daniels. So that's really funny. That's really

1266
01:49:01.760 --> 01:49:05.560
I apologize. That's much spicier than
I usually am. It kind of got

1267
01:49:05.600 --> 01:49:10.960
a little bit of assholey about it. Oh, I don't know. Yeah,

1268
01:49:11.000 --> 01:49:15.319
screw you, Tony, but you
can be spicyer if you like.

1269
01:49:16.239 --> 01:49:23.439
You should bleep yourself out. I
agree. But at the end of the

1270
01:49:23.439 --> 01:49:28.439
movie and that terrible last fifteen minutes
though, I do like it whenever Yoda's

1271
01:49:28.479 --> 01:49:31.760
meditating and it's just silent, which
I'm really glad that they didn't. I

1272
01:49:31.800 --> 01:49:36.560
think he was supposed to be community
with QUI gone right there. There's some

1273
01:49:36.640 --> 01:49:40.399
sort of deleted scene, but instead
it's just silence, and I think that's

1274
01:49:41.199 --> 01:49:45.279
yeah, it's really so much better. And then Mail comes up and is

1275
01:49:45.359 --> 01:49:49.520
like master Yoda, and then really
good animation animators. I gotta say,

1276
01:49:49.560 --> 01:49:56.960
whenever Yoda painfully opens his eyes,
Well, they worked really hard on it.

1277
01:49:57.479 --> 01:50:00.199
I can tell you having watched the
serious about that. No, I'm

1278
01:50:00.279 --> 01:50:04.640
not saying that sarcastically from the from
Peppets to Pixels where they talk about that

1279
01:50:05.199 --> 01:50:09.880
last shot and calling it the widow
Maker, which is so funny, right,

1280
01:50:10.680 --> 01:50:16.760
But anyways, James Smith's having to
sell, uh, my wife and

1281
01:50:16.800 --> 01:50:21.359
I will take the girl. We've
always been a little girl. But it's

1282
01:50:21.399 --> 01:50:26.720
really beautiful though, like the way
he says it, there is there is

1283
01:50:26.960 --> 01:50:32.640
history behind there. Yeah, Like
it is very gentle and it's very lovely.

1284
01:50:34.199 --> 01:50:36.680
We'll take the girl, like we
wanted to adopt a girl. And

1285
01:50:36.720 --> 01:50:41.960
I'm like, that's nice, Like
sounds like if you're adopting, maybe it's

1286
01:50:42.000 --> 01:50:45.199
possible that like you, maybe you
want to adopt and that's like a goal

1287
01:50:45.239 --> 01:50:48.760
of yours or maybe like you are
able to conceive and you know, but

1288
01:50:48.840 --> 01:50:53.800
it's like it feels like, oh, what is the line? Though he

1289
01:50:53.840 --> 01:50:59.399
said something like she will be loved
with us, which is a beautiful line.

1290
01:50:59.800 --> 01:51:03.079
And that's why George Lucas is probably
one of our greatest writers. I

1291
01:51:03.119 --> 01:51:10.880
think, Yeah, I mean I
actually find that you're but you're right.

1292
01:51:10.920 --> 01:51:14.439
It is like the power of his
performance that's like this is being sold because

1293
01:51:14.439 --> 01:51:17.159
he's saying it with like, and
he's a good actor and with a lot

1294
01:51:17.199 --> 01:51:28.680
of earnestness, and it's a very
beautiful little Sanathian where they're holding clumsy building

1295
01:51:28.680 --> 01:51:33.520
the parts to the bridge. Yi
yi, Yi, wait, what are

1296
01:51:33.520 --> 01:51:38.520
you talking about? The clumsy bridge
of the last fifteen minutes of that movie

1297
01:51:38.520 --> 01:51:41.479
where they're like, oh, we'll
take Luke over here, Lee is gonna

1298
01:51:41.479 --> 01:51:45.359
come over here, Patmey is gonna
die over here. We're gonna literally built

1299
01:51:45.359 --> 01:51:49.079
a death star on camera, so
you understand, and we're going to end

1300
01:51:49.119 --> 01:51:57.000
on a shot of Owen and Burrow
looking at the twin sons of Tattoo.

1301
01:52:00.199 --> 01:52:05.840
Gross. Yeah, I guess that's
how. That's how, because that's also

1302
01:52:05.840 --> 01:52:09.600
how this equal trilogians too, right, except that movie never happens, so

1303
01:52:09.680 --> 01:52:13.479
just kidding, I don't know what's
happening. The shouldn't happen. That's the

1304
01:52:13.560 --> 01:52:19.920
Last walkersaka it's a great earnest note
to end on where they're trying to break

1305
01:52:19.960 --> 01:52:25.359
the loop. They're trying to break
the power loop. Yeah, break it

1306
01:52:25.880 --> 01:52:29.720
because they don't understand that there are
larger neoliberal forces at work. Yes,

1307
01:52:30.239 --> 01:52:33.680
exactly, which is why the stuff
on Canto Bite is actually engaging, because

1308
01:52:33.720 --> 01:52:38.760
it's starting to talk take Star Wars
into class narratives as opposed to good and

1309
01:52:38.840 --> 01:52:44.319
evil and recognizing imagine if and Or
had just ended with them going to Tattoo

1310
01:52:44.399 --> 01:52:47.800
and looking at the Twins. I
think every Star Wars felt should end with

1311
01:52:47.840 --> 01:52:54.720
them looking at the twin sums,
so we can understand every one of them

1312
01:52:55.119 --> 01:52:58.680
ends. They're they're all like,
they're all like Puck. We have because

1313
01:52:58.720 --> 01:53:03.479
times say we got to go to
Tatoya. But speaking of all good things

1314
01:53:03.479 --> 01:53:11.359
coming to an end, including saga's, this saga is now complete as we

1315
01:53:11.479 --> 01:53:15.520
come to the central conceit of this
podcast by ranking which one is better Star

1316
01:53:15.600 --> 01:53:18.520
Trek or Star Wars. Once again, Breadon circuses the penn ultimate episode of

1317
01:53:18.560 --> 01:53:23.119
season two, Star Trek, the
original series verse Star Wars episode three,

1318
01:53:23.359 --> 01:53:29.920
Revenge of the Set. I believe
I went second last time, so Bredon

1319
01:53:30.000 --> 01:53:38.560
Circuses, I will give a good
faith eight. Ah. I thought it

1320
01:53:38.600 --> 01:53:42.159
was great. I don't feel like
giving a Spie ranking, even though I

1321
01:53:42.159 --> 01:53:46.000
asked in very much said why I
should give a Spie ranking, and I

1322
01:53:46.039 --> 01:53:50.079
believe their reasons. I agree.
I'm not telling you to give it a

1323
01:53:50.079 --> 01:53:54.399
SPI rank. What I'm telling you
I will give it a SPY rank.

1324
01:53:55.000 --> 01:53:59.319
I didn't. You can see it
on the spreadsheet. I give bread and

1325
01:53:59.359 --> 01:54:03.800
Circus an uh. Yeah, I
said why this is a great episode.

1326
01:54:03.960 --> 01:54:08.880
I think it's surprisingly subversive given the
time and given the environment that is coming

1327
01:54:08.960 --> 01:54:14.760
up, and and you know,
I find the clunkiness endearing because Star Trek

1328
01:54:14.840 --> 01:54:19.319
has many things, including clunky,
and I think the clunk is a feature,

1329
01:54:19.520 --> 01:54:23.880
not a bug. But your mileage
may very speaking of milage may vary.

1330
01:54:23.920 --> 01:54:26.720
Asmen, what do you think of
bredon Sexes? No, I like

1331
01:54:26.760 --> 01:54:30.640
that it's clunky. I mean I
think it's you know, if it weren't

1332
01:54:30.640 --> 01:54:34.960
for like the most destructive pieces of
an episode, just or just like the

1333
01:54:34.960 --> 01:54:38.319
recklessness of it, I probably would
have given it a smon. Mom,

1334
01:54:38.399 --> 01:54:45.760
I given it too. You do
love this just like fuck off Roddenberry,

1335
01:54:45.960 --> 01:54:49.760
like get out of my face.
So you think that he should have stayed

1336
01:54:49.760 --> 01:54:54.880
with writing his robin Hood pilot.
Yeah, go write your little robin Hood

1337
01:54:54.920 --> 01:54:59.960
pilot. Why don't just go cheat
on your second, third, fourth wife?

1338
01:55:00.880 --> 01:55:02.920
Just get out of here first.
Hey, that dude cheating on this

1339
01:55:03.000 --> 01:55:08.680
first. I just assume he cheats
on all of them. Yes, yes,

1340
01:55:08.720 --> 01:55:12.479
he did get out of here.
But we're not getting just yet.

1341
01:55:12.680 --> 01:55:19.399
Working as a personal Roddenberry Vendetic podcast, yeah uh. As we come into

1342
01:55:19.479 --> 01:55:23.119
Star Wars episode three, Revenge of
the Seth, I'm looking at the spreadsheet,

1343
01:55:23.199 --> 01:55:28.800
I'm looking and I'm seeing that I
rank episode one a four point seven?

1344
01:55:30.840 --> 01:55:33.840
What you did? What did I? I ranked to like a six

1345
01:55:33.840 --> 01:55:38.039
point something, right, six point
four, which is more than four point

1346
01:55:38.079 --> 01:55:42.920
seven. And then I ranked because
I was somehow like, oh my god,

1347
01:55:42.920 --> 01:55:45.119
why I was attack at the clones
working for me like a six or

1348
01:55:45.119 --> 01:55:47.920
something. I could also look at
the spreadsheet and you don't have to just

1349
01:55:47.960 --> 01:55:58.039
tell me. I'm gonna go for
it. In a surprising upset even to

1350
01:55:58.079 --> 01:56:04.680
myself think I'm going to give Revenge
of the Sith, no, no,

1351
01:56:04.680 --> 01:56:12.079
no ultimate power. But the highs
of Revenge of the Sith are higher than

1352
01:56:12.119 --> 01:56:15.399
phantom Menace even though phantom menaces are
more coffee Bob. I wish I were

1353
01:56:15.479 --> 01:56:20.880
high. Wait, this is truly
difficult. I'm going for it. I'm

1354
01:56:20.880 --> 01:56:25.920
gonna give it a five. That's
funny, That's exactly what I was going

1355
01:56:26.000 --> 01:56:30.039
to give it. And I'm mad
at it. Yeah, I was gonna

1356
01:56:30.079 --> 01:56:32.520
I was like, I'm gonna give
it a five. I thought you were

1357
01:56:32.520 --> 01:56:36.479
gonna go for like a six or
something seven point six, Like I aim

1358
01:56:36.520 --> 01:56:45.640
to be aspect? What aspect?
Yeah? Two weeks in a row.

1359
01:56:46.319 --> 01:57:02.199
No, we got times wait think
oh my god, oh my god,

1360
01:57:03.840 --> 01:57:11.640
uh my jaws on the floor.
We got two weeks where well, well,

1361
01:57:11.760 --> 01:57:15.439
last week was a raturous celebration of
the things that we love both about

1362
01:57:15.600 --> 01:57:21.960
both franchises. This week was us
pulling both of our collective callers and being

1363
01:57:23.079 --> 01:57:26.359
like, are we sure that we
want to commit to the premise of this

1364
01:57:26.479 --> 01:57:30.039
podcast for the rest of our times
on this planet? Our time with our

1365
01:57:30.119 --> 01:57:42.079
loved ones certainly is finite. It
is that I think every time I get

1366
01:57:42.159 --> 01:57:49.760
upset, I'm like, Kenny did
this to me? Listen, It's worth

1367
01:57:49.800 --> 01:57:54.920
it. It's worth it every single
time. But also one of the joys

1368
01:57:54.960 --> 01:57:59.920
about Star Wars Star Wars is many
things, is what. It's not just

1369
01:58:00.159 --> 01:58:03.800
the Skywalkers saga. It's not just
aesthetics or nostalgic. It's many, very

1370
01:58:04.199 --> 01:58:11.000
very rarely only so far, because
now we are coming to the end of

1371
01:58:11.039 --> 01:58:19.000
one section of Star Wars. Very
rarely does it like phone it in.

1372
01:58:19.239 --> 01:58:29.119
It's always trying to say something.
I think. I think that's true so

1373
01:58:29.239 --> 01:58:34.199
far. Yes, yes, maybe
if we were to rewatch Droids again reevaluate

1374
01:58:34.279 --> 01:58:38.079
and not be saying anythink you're right. Maybe not Droids and he walks.

1375
01:58:38.640 --> 01:58:45.560
But even then there was still craftsmanship. I don't know. Sometimes Star Trek

1376
01:58:45.560 --> 01:58:48.600
bones it in. Sometimes Star Wars. Both of these things bone it in.

1377
01:58:48.760 --> 01:58:53.119
They do. I mean, I
appreciate the Star Trek is trying to

1378
01:58:53.119 --> 01:58:57.159
say something at all, especially in
the time period that it is saying it.

1379
01:58:57.319 --> 01:59:00.520
Even when it lets me down,
I'm still like, thank you for

1380
01:59:00.600 --> 01:59:06.079
daying anything at all. Yep.
Then maybe the difference isn't that these things

1381
01:59:06.119 --> 01:59:14.760
don't ever phone it in, but
maybe it's us roll my eyes. Here

1382
01:59:14.760 --> 01:59:20.560
we go being sincere about our parasocial
relationships with both these inanimate objects, but

1383
01:59:21.640 --> 01:59:26.479
we never phone it in in terms
of trying to find value and meaning Oh

1384
01:59:26.560 --> 01:59:30.920
that's really nice, skinny, because
it's not like we just love these things,

1385
01:59:30.920 --> 01:59:38.319
but this is what it means to
love something holy and completely even whenever.

1386
01:59:39.800 --> 01:59:44.239
Much like Abed in the season six
of Community TV, is allowed to

1387
01:59:44.279 --> 01:59:46.560
have a bad day, Yeah,
so too are Star Trek and Star Wars

1388
01:59:46.840 --> 01:59:51.439
and as part of the joy of
being a fan of being like but like,

1389
01:59:51.800 --> 01:59:56.760
let's take them at their word.
Oh no, it made me cry.

1390
01:59:58.520 --> 02:00:02.960
That's really nice. Let's let's let's
believe in the magic that's here.

1391
02:00:03.279 --> 02:00:08.159
And uh, there's a whole lot
of people that worked extremely hard on this

1392
02:00:08.239 --> 02:00:12.520
thing that we love down to our
bones. So let's give it the benefit

1393
02:00:12.520 --> 02:00:16.000
of the down even whenever they do
die because they have a broken heart.

1394
02:00:16.520 --> 02:00:23.920
Oh god, I don't Maybe the
broken heart was the friends we made along

1395
02:00:23.920 --> 02:00:29.319
the way. Speaking of friends that
we made along the way, Uh,

1396
02:00:29.399 --> 02:00:31.319
why don't you go, you know, go be our friend on social media?

1397
02:00:33.199 --> 02:00:39.600
Okay, yeah, that's good.
You can follow us on Instagram and

1398
02:00:39.640 --> 02:00:44.560
please s guy at Trek purs Pod. Additionally, you can send us an

1399
02:00:44.600 --> 02:00:50.560
email Trek Word Pod at gmail dot
com. Doctor Tiffany Noll, of course,

1400
02:00:50.600 --> 02:00:54.239
got in touch with us last week
and I shot her an email this

1401
02:00:54.359 --> 02:01:00.359
way. That's pretty sweet. I
know it really is cool. And then

1402
02:01:00.479 --> 02:01:04.239
not only that, you can go
sign up for our Patreon patreon dot com

1403
02:01:04.279 --> 02:01:08.560
slash trek Wars pod, where for
five dollars a month you can get either

1404
02:01:08.680 --> 02:01:15.560
early versions of these episodes and extended
versions of episodes and chat with us uh

1405
02:01:15.039 --> 02:01:23.880
like our Cannon friend Arizona Mark.
Oh yeah, Rice in uh hey,

1406
02:01:24.079 --> 02:01:28.520
I'm paraphrasing, but here's where the
pairaphrasing stops. You definitely need to watch

1407
02:01:28.560 --> 02:01:30.560
the Lego Star Wars content. It's
great and super fun. Now, how

1408
02:01:30.560 --> 02:01:35.640
do you feel about a statement like
that? Aspen fine content? Can you

1409
02:01:35.920 --> 02:01:41.439
just you are grabbing me by the
collar and holding me over a fire?

1410
02:01:42.039 --> 02:01:53.039
It's fine? Oh, it's fine. Okay, that's fine. I'm fine,

1411
02:01:55.960 --> 02:02:00.800
outstanding. You love to see it. I'm doing opera singing from the

1412
02:02:00.840 --> 02:02:11.199
opera sing Additionally, Arizona Mark takes
umbrage with the label Arizona Mark by saying

1413
02:02:11.239 --> 02:02:14.520
cool to hear a review from Syracuse, New York as I used to live

1414
02:02:14.560 --> 02:02:16.920
thirty minutes away from there for the
first twenty five years of my life.

1415
02:02:18.000 --> 02:02:21.399
And again, that's Arizona Mark,
that's Canon's name. We will not change

1416
02:02:21.399 --> 02:02:26.520
it that since a wiki. Ah, so we should make a wiki.

1417
02:02:27.199 --> 02:02:30.920
We should make a wiki, and
maybe some of our patrons would make a

1418
02:02:30.960 --> 02:02:33.119
wiki. Some of those patrons are
Tempo de Sosa, thank you so much

1419
02:02:33.159 --> 02:02:36.640
for your patronage, Emily, Bryce
Love, Heidi Rogers, Kevin Miller,

1420
02:02:36.920 --> 02:02:44.119
Mark Vibert, Aaron Science, and
lastly, but certainly not Leasli Joelty Partner,

1421
02:02:44.960 --> 02:02:49.199
who not only composed the Ice Starship
At theme song but also contributed verbally

1422
02:02:49.439 --> 02:02:57.520
to the podcast today. Yeah,
and then not only did he contribute that,

1423
02:02:57.600 --> 02:03:00.840
but also mister tosin Awfasso, who
wrote our intro and outro music.

1424
02:03:00.920 --> 02:03:04.119
Thank you. You can go find
a bore of his work and use his

1425
02:03:04.439 --> 02:03:13.600
expertise as a musician. In the
show notes below, Aspen, Yeah,

1426
02:03:14.399 --> 02:03:19.199
we're coming to the end. Yeah, that's here we are. We're about

1427
02:03:19.199 --> 02:03:24.239
to start to a really excited part
of the podcast, a part that I

1428
02:03:24.359 --> 02:03:28.720
really have a blind spot and I
am excited for you to hold my hand

1429
02:03:28.840 --> 02:03:34.640
through this brand new adventure as Star
Wars begins to change into something completely different.

1430
02:03:35.319 --> 02:03:38.520
Yeah yeah, yeah, yeah,
yeah yeah. Oh first we have

1431
02:03:38.520 --> 02:03:43.159
to watch that shitty movie, but
that's okay. After that, Yeah,

1432
02:03:43.239 --> 02:03:49.439
that's all right. I love you. I love you, audience, we

1433
02:03:49.520 --> 02:03:54.800
love you, and may the Force
be with you and live long and prosper,

1434
02:03:54.840 --> 02:04:15.720
and also live long and prospering,
and also with the you h you

1435
02:04:15.880 --> 02:04:23.039
sleepy baby again. It's like poetry. So if they rhyde mh