The Gamesters of Triskelion vs. Battle for the Sunstar

0:26 Welcome to the Trek Wars Podcast, the Internet's primary source for answering the one question, the most important question, phantom, which is better Star Trek or Star Wars by going through both franchises in chronological release order until we run out of that sweet video content. I am Kenny Madison, one portion of the Trek Wars Podcast, also representing the Star Trek side with me as always is the legend themselves aspin Webster, if you are a poor what are we portion? Were pushing the soup? We soup? No, we're never. We're never going to be soup. We could be pies. We could be pikes, we could be ice cream. Never yeah never, I never never soup.

1:15 Oh no no no, we're not souper boys. No, we could be pie boys. So if you are one portion of a pie, I am the other portion of the pie. It's a half an HALVESI situation, and one half of the pie is bad pie because it's Star Check and my half of the pie is good pie because it's Star Wars. Aspen Webster, Uh, that takes a lot of skill to try and make us into pie boys pie boys. And this week these two pie boys are getting into games games. As this week we go over the gamestress of Triskellian versus Battle for the sun Stars. But I think it's time that we acclimate our home viewers, people that are playing the home version of the Track Wars podcast, by regaling them with synopsis to get them present on what the heck we're talking about this week, because chances are folks probably didn't watch Battle for the sun Star with us this week. I'll wants their name is Jolty partner. Ah.

2:19 So the Battle for the sun Star just Battle for the sun Star. Yeah, in this case released December sixth, the nineteen eighty six, we're almost into eighty seven? What a year? Am I? Right? Yeah? Wow? Wow? Director Dale shot and written by Paul Deny, as is custom in this case, as is custom, as I believe his credit a supervising story editor on E Watts. Right right right, here is our synopsis. So, an imperial scientist who in this case I will just name him is doctor Ragar. An imperial scientists steals the SunStar, are with plans, secret plans to overthrow the Emperor, Emperor Palpatine, as it were, Wicket, Nissa Letara and Tibo Sneak aboard a star destroyer to reclaim their prized stone.

3:16 And they sure do, they sure do. We go to space, not only so, there's even a whole bit. He steals the sun Star by a first like abducting them and attacking the village, and it is a lot. And then yeah, they end up in space to get it back and they save the day. God, what a great time. Oh so good. Okay, I defer to you, but is it as good as the gastres of Triskellian Credited writer Margaret Arman and director Gen Nelson, aired January fifth, nineteen sixty eight. What a good year? Good year? Yeah, feeling good? Sixty years, sixteen years, notoriously good year. Notoriously no one was assassinated in sixty eight? Yeah? Uh. Steven H.

4:08 Shower from the Tvkey Previews synopsizes it as does a good entry. Tonight, Captain kirk and two crew members use the transporter for a routine landing, but that wonderful machine suddenly fails them. They simply disappear. While the Enterprise wanders through the galaxy looking for them. Kirked and his party are experiencing an intriguing adventure on an unknown planet where the inhabitants do nothing but fight at the bidding of their masters or providers, who enjoy a wagering on the outcome of these games. Yeah, it was fine, No, it was fine. Sorry, it's fine. No, I see. Look, we are in our first oppressions, first oppressions, and as thus, I think that's dustly there.

5:11 Uh, trus an adequate episode that happened to begin. Here's what it has a beginning, middle, and an end. Yes, narrative structure. Kenny tell me, can you can you give me something to help me right now? Uh? This episode was written by a woman, as always a white woman. Uh. Can't go any farther than that. Uh. And that does not necessarily mean that it is making any good statements about gender or relationships by any means, though it is uh nice to see since so few people who aren't white men wrote these episodes write a lot of start Yes, this is goes part and parcel with a backpadding kind of liberalism. That is one of the joys of being a Star Trek fan of being like wow, so progressive. And also Margaret Armand the credited writer for this apso I keep saying credited writer. She she put in the work on this episode. This episode in reading from the Years of the Voyages TOS season two from Mark Cushman, this episode went through a lot of revisions, but we'll get into that, into the deeper dive. That was going to be my question, Mark Margaret Arman, Uh, I believe me second credited female writer on Star Trek

6:43 period. That and DC Fontana. Yeah, and I love my I love my girl, Dc. No. I think every time I see something and then it feels frustrating in a few different ways, I always wonder if it's because of revisions. Again, not not necessarily to say that white women are by any means saviors of good quality television, or sexism or whatever it might be. First impression of this episode though, is Maura Hourah always better? Yes? Yeah, I believe I would give it points just for that, just to see her get to do anything at all. Also stealing this observation from these are the Voyages. Who is paying attention to this show in such a granular way. I believe this is Hora's third away team mission. Yeah, we've got sitting on the edge of forever, We've got this episode and mir or mirror, mirror, mirror, Oh right, she does get She was pretty great in that one as well. Yeah. Yeah, I enjoy anything with Maura Horah. I think that she is incredible. Yeah, you know, I think even just generally speaking, I love it when she's around.

8:03 I think she's has this like graceful yet very like strong presence that I find just very engaging. Whenever they give me for Nachelle Nichols to chew on as a horror not only rises to the challenge but surpasses it, especially considering how erratically that they can write a horror or she can just be like a shrill, emotional woman that's incapable of doing anything to a strong human who is using her assets to gain what she needs, manipulative, whatever she needs to be smart, strong, capable, but very often it's just reduced to haling frequencies are open. Yeah. Absolutely, yeah. So that's I will say, kind of our first impressions. I was very much left with that.

8:58 Also, you know what, here's another really quick thing I want to note about this episode. The more I watch original series, I know intellectually that William Shatner what was the piece of shit? The more I watch him, the more I absolutely adore every performance he gives here is so well because it was something about this episode, and I think it's because of just all the campy elements that are attached to this. But just watching this episode, I am like Shatner is one million percent committed. He loved working on Star Trek. He very much enjoyed it. He's a dream in this He's hot, He's like delivering lines with intensity. Like there's the whole Shatner joke of the way he speaks is Kirk, and I just find it to be compelling.

9:54 I find him to be compelling, and he feels committed. He feels like he truly believes in it. Shatner's acting style is indicative of a theatrical style that was starting to go out of vogue at the time. Yeah, it feels honest. It is absolutely part of what makes Captain Kirk work. Yes, Shatner is mid to late thirties at this point in time. Look at hot without that shirt, ma dude. Yes, and absolutely fabulous in this role. Absolutely fabulous in this episode. Rather it could be very silly.

10:35 The villains are brains in a jar, yeah, which, but Shatner never feels like he is checked out. He is committed to the performance. I mean, everyone is committed to the performance. You know, I guess later. It's funny that you say that. I imagine, Yeah, he was a stage actor, right, yes, uh, not to skip to the end already, but I have a sneaky suspicion that Star Wars may win the week because Battle for the Sun Star. Yes, yes, actually in great episode. Maybe if for the fact that this is just like water in a desert and she's really excited about the spaceships. And also the conflicts are so strong here. They are dealing in very strong archetypes. We have. The steaks are incredibly high. It feels dangerous and terrifying. Yeah, we've got Doctor Regar looking like being the Merciless, actually looking like those guys in the Emperor's Throne room in Return to Jedi, which is a fun piece of continuity.

11:52 They've got Admiral Kaz, who's a mid level Empire manager who's like, this questify the Sudden Star. The Sudden Star doesn't exist, You're a fool kind of thing, which is a classic. The Doctor Agar even name drops the Emperor. Oh oh, oh, there are stormtroopers. Never thought I'd be so excited. I never thought I'd see so excited to see those little mouse droids. Yeah, and I think it just it's a clean, simple episode moves at a clip. How all of our characters, the Steakes feel large. I don't know, it's good. What do you want from me?

12:45 Jeez? Wow. More than that, I'd say, like, can't you just give me something a little bit more excitement? I will I will dare say dare. One of the fun things about watching Ewoks is the show finding itself, finding its own footing. Where season one the animation was outstanding, but both of us were just like, I'm not who which character is, which we kind of know who Wicked is, but the like the characters weren't really formed. And then season two comes along, Bam, they're locked in. We know who these characters are, right, And then honestly, I feel like this is the episode where we lock into, Oh, this is what this show could have been, which is nature versus mechanical, right, right? Not every show, you know needs to fall into these clear tropes. And also maybe it is just the fact that we recognize the Star Wars specs of it. And also there is something that could just be very thematically clean about this TV show where the Ewoks are representative all the natural,

14:15 all of the good, all the light, and then Empire evil mechanical coming in even from just a shape of show as because Ewoks has consistently been a show that's been looking for villains, maybe not necessarily looking for villains, it's more just like we're playing in a big sandbox and we're exploring end or the show can be whatever it wants. And also it's had this running arc throughout the back about the sun Star and the Moonstone, remember the Moonstone, but then they combined it. Well, this is unlike Droyce, which was surprisingly serialized. This show has had the SunStar rolling in the background every once in a while. Yeah, the SunStar, especially in the second season. Yeah yeah, so it start comes to the front and then we've got clear villains with the Empire, yeah, which makes sense. Yeah, people have been trying to take the sun Star for a while now. That other cool witch bitch who made the Snowy Snowy guy Ice Cold. Yeah, her other people, the spooky Dude, Spooky Doo trying to take it. Loved that Spooky Dode. Just trying to name them all, but yeah, they have all been trying to get the sun Star, and sooner or later we were going to we should have gotten. Yeah, someone from the Empire, a bad dude from the stars trying to get it. Even if it just wasn't imperials, it could be warlords, crime lords, something that embodies the mechanical.

15:52 So there is a clear there's just something image wise for a show that has pointed towards twelve year olds que for you. Maybe you don't know the answer here. Droids had one season, this said two. Do we know if part of the production of this if when I mean, I imagine they would know that Droids was like canceled no more second season and Ewoks is just going to go on independently because I guess I'm thinking about the experience of going between the two Ewoks to Droids meant that it never felt like I was lacking in Droids felt like it was fulfilling the mechanical versus nature a lot, because they would go to planets where that would be representative and then there would be the mechanical that would try to destroy or take over, and then so it felt like that was sort of filling that gap. And now we've just had straight indoor world and we've had none of that mechanical space, and I was just I don't know. I was like, maybe there's something in the production that they didn't do that because it would have been a place taken up by droids.

16:59 I don't know. I truly don't know, because I have gotten through at least two oral histories of Star Wars in looking for literature about droids and ewoks, because I want to know what the heck is going on, because this is such an undocumented part of Star Wars, like Lucas had his hands in these. Yeah, this is still lucasfilm. This is slapped with the label of Star Wars. This was the only visual Star Wars that we got between eighty three and ninety seven. H Hey, I appreciate. Do you think when those kids were watching TV while eating dinner they were like manned gamesters of Chiskellion. What a great episode. There is something that is very visually appealing about this episode. It's actually very cool. Is there is something about that? Bay ask? This is a serviceable episode. This is a fine episode. Yeah, beginning, middle, and end, let's get into it.

18:06 I don't really know the production history at Battle for the Sun start, but I know what the production history of Gamestress of Triskellion is. Margaret Arman was a housewife that worked her way into TV. That's right, love you. So she got married, she went to university in California, got married at twenty two, had a family, and just the way that I understand it, just kept writing and started writing short stories and stuff into publication and then at some point wrote her way into writing TV westerns. Oh oh what a queen. Absolutely yes. Then took a meeting with Roddenberry or rather Jane.

18:59 Which one was it. It's one of the Jenes Bear Jenes, feel like it's rod and Berry. Either way, not really important. What is important is that she took a meeting with the Star Trek had hot jos whatever, and they were like, she's got the goods. This episode will work. And so began the long process of writing and rewriting and rewriting and rewriting and rewriting and rewriting for this episode. This episode went through two show runners. I believe, Ah, yes, I remember now. What happened is that NBC had ordered an initial sixteen episode run for the second season of Star Trek. They had put this episode. They were working on this episode, but it was not initially committed to a production order. Then they ordered a two additional episodes. This is whenever the new show runner, John Maryeth Lucas was overseeing things, and the two episodes that were added, And you'll start to feel this transition as we're bouncing between two showrunners, Gene Kuhn and John Meredith Lucas. The John Meredith Lucas episodes are just kind of less. They look like Star Trek, they act like Star Trek, they have all the Star Trek characters, but there's that intangible element. Does it like Season four Community exactly exactly as interesting? And I think we've already noticed this with the episode Obsession. Remember that episode? I deleted it, Moby Dick. Oh, I remember, I remember Yet in Space that they had done June Day Machine earlier. I already done better, Mobi Dick. Yeah, another John

20:32 Meredith Lucas episode. And I'm pretty sure that we've been bouncing around between Gene John Meredith Lucas in between these, and we could probably tell the differences every time. It's good it's Gene Kuhn. Yeah. Wow, I should have been paying more attention. I I mean, I should have also been paying more attention. Anyways, this episode gets into production under John Meredith Lucas because gene Kuhn was tired and he was just like, you know what, I'm not going to do this anymore. Rotten Berry is not here because Roden Berry was also working on another pilot and just kind of out of the office. Same my dude. And then when Roden Berry came back, he was like, oh, you made I mud in Troubles with Triples while I wasn't here these two comedy episodes, No, no, No. Star Trek is serious, and Genekun just kind of got tired with the whole process and was like, you know what, I quit, Oh my god. And here John Meredith Lucas, who gene Kuhn, was like, you want to run Star Trek. John Meredith Lukes like yeah, I love science fiction. John Meredith Lucas, And that's why this episode feels this way. How do you how can you find out? How can you find out who was in charge of each one? I'm literally reading the book. Oh okay, well, what are fort a weird flex? I'm looking at I AMDB. I'm not looking at it right now, but I had read the book because I enjoy research.

22:03 I know, I know you like to read. I do like to Okay, that's cute for you. Anyways, good for you. Margaret Arman did a whole bunch of work on this episode to speak to your Let's actually go back to the beginning of this recording. Oh my god, which is the white woman aspect of it. I would like to know a little bit more and see if I can add a little bit more context on that. Ah. Oh, I think I've probably wrote this up in the past. I'm always torn a little bit, you know. It's like, obviously, I just think that we always just need to be very thoughtful. Just because someone who is in the minority is writing for writing a script does not mean that it will be necessarily more progressive. And I think bringing up the white woman thing is because oftentimes there's still a lot of leaning into patriarchal structures.

23:07 Yeah, anyway, and so I think my question was how much of her script got to be the show versus how much of it was rewritten or pushed or shifted or like. There are just certain things that I was like, I'm so fucking not into this, and some things that I was like, for instance, I truly loved Kirk kissing Shanna, Shanna Shawna. Shawna. Kissing Shaanna and then punching her was all of the funniest things I've ever seen in my life. But you know, there's like little bits in there of once again powerful women who are taken by, like by the way. We talk so much about Kirk Drift, and I'm like, here's a great example of how that's not Kirk Drift. Kirk is just this person, you know, romancing women but also kind of doing it to get to a to a you know, a goal that happened. There's just other pieces that feel very cruel. There's that bit about the person who is assigned to Chekhov, who I it's like a joke that he like, I guess it's like they made her voice sound deeper so she sounded more masculine. She wasn't thinner as thin, but she was still thin, but she wasn't thin thin, and she kind of had the like, oh, like it was a joke that like, Kirk gets this hot lady and he gets this like disgusting creature. I

24:38 was like, I don't not having a great time right now. I don't know what I'm getting at I just was curious, basic question. Sorry, do question. To answer your question, those things were baked into the script. Yeah, sure, that's ever since the beginning draft. Those are not additions from either Koon or John Lucas or Roddenberry. Actually the original version from Margaret Armant was a little bit worse politically, Oh tell me more. And also it's about slavery. It is kind of wild to me, but I don't know, it feels reckless. It feels like a reckless episode that feels like maybe it's saying something and it's not. Maybe that's what I'm Yeah, sorry again, go on, just to keep reiterating the trauma Star Trek, the backpadding of liberalism, of being like, this is an episode about slavery.

25:32 Actually, I think this is more an episode about what a spartacus. But Star Trek, Yeah, it did. I it did feel far more spartaca sy that's true. That's true. I think this was just interested in that interested in exploring themes of humans in captivity. And I think the thing that I circled and wanted to talk about thematically, and I think I will just pull up the quote that Roddenberry said, sure, because I think this is the thing that resonated with Roddenberry the most in regards to the three Brains and Jars are yep, the keepers. They had to turn back, They had to find action and excitement through other species, just as in today's world, many of our males find themselves prisoners of marriage, children, mortgage payments, and so on, and find their action and adventure vicariously through the Saturday afternoon sports programs on television. Really, the two situations are quite similar, equating the men of the nineteen sixties with the Brains and Jars and the thing that excited me most, connecting it with the meta narrative of where Roddenberry is Roddenberry constantly battling the network because he loves fighting the network. He wants to be seen as a visionary. He wants to be seen as a great man.

27:03 Sorry, I'm finding myself so bored by him, just with listening to you talk about it. Not bored by you or the conversation, just bored by him. Please go on. This is the lovely thing poking holes in the Star Trek meta narrative. Star Trek a progressive TV show. Gene Roddenberry just another white dude, that happened to be in the right place at the right time, got power right. I'm so bored. I don't give a shit. Jean fuck off. Trapped in your marriage? God damn it. Sorry, Please go on Element and Important, because I've been talking at length, and it's really easy to talk about the great Man narrative that's associated with Roden Barrett. And also it's exciting to do this in kanjunk on with Star Wars and conjecture with a great man narrative that George Lucas purports as well.

27:59 Yes, true, very true. He also bores the shit out of me. Do you think Pauldini, it's like working on Battle for the sun Star and he's just like, I'm a great bird. Get out. He's like, look at me, What a guy he's like. In this episode, I would say that the scientists desire to capture the sun Star and defeat the Emperor is a lot like what it's like to be a man in the late eighties, where you feel trapped by the capitalistic structure, but you have to be part of it to be a provider and be strong. Also, I am high on cocaine, but it's cocaine from San Francisco. So it's like cocaine, all natural cocaine. I feel like Paul Deini and probably the folks and Ewoks were just like, we get to play with the Star Wars toys.

29:00 Yeah, crack their knuckles in the lake. Cool, here we go. That feels very lovely and authentic and fresh to me. It's like, I like the idea of also playing with toys and being able to explore universe and have fun. Well, hold on, let's do our deep dive. The Star Wars e walks. Here we go. Now we're back battle for the sun Star. Yes, we get to meet our friend. Pt. Twenty eight. Oh oh, is he the little droid baby? Yes? I love the little joy baby. He was straight up wonderful because they're abducted by the mad scientist doctor. Uh wrote it down. I was about to say Cagles, doctor it is No, it's ray Gar, doctor Cagles.

29:53 They call him that. Now. Doctor Cagles straight up is like, I'm gonna kill your friend if you don't tell me where to find the sun Star. And he's straight in. So it's like, here's where the sun Star is, and like we just hope that they can protect and then they he's like, okay, cool, I'm gonna take you to my spaceship, and then they're kept. They're trapped there while he is stealing SunStar down on indoor below. We get to see some awesome magic from low Gray, which is fab but he saves them. He lets the mountain escapes with them, and I just loved him. He was my best friend, I said, I love this little troyd. He was stolen from his master. I will actually say a lot of my notes hurt me just going doctor Ragar Dog, Electric Empire, Admiral Kaz and then I'm like actual ships and lots of exclamation works in question works. It feels like everyone is excited to be playing with Star Wars again. Yeah, which is fun. Also, the episode start like a Star Wars movie, yes, with they have the pan, Yes, it tilts up to end Or and we see a ship fly overhead, so fabulous. It's very exciting and it's very exciting and you can you can feel it. And then one of the biggest laughs that I probably had in a very long time with this podcast. They're doing Imperial stuff and Empire and we

31:26 see ships and it's cool, and then a hard cut to Wicket Latara, Tibo and Nissa, and they're gone, we gotta carry these berry for the Kubas, and I'm over here just going. Paul Deane is a writer of lots of esteem and also if someone was wanting to make fun of ewoks, they would be going, well, we got to take the changing over there for Master Lobway. It was really great listen to jing jangberries, jing Jang bears, jingberries, jing jing Jang bearry ing kanberries. Nissa says, you have to do nice things for people because then they'll do nice things for you later, and I went, yikes, yeah, she's a kid. She's a kid. She's like, if we help these baby birds, and then the baby birds just like kick her out of them, which was very funny to me. I was like, that's what you get for proposing a transactional relationship. Just do nice things. Yeah, that was extremely funny. Other very funny moments are they've got this ship that they used to get back down to Endore and then to get back up. Latara is just like, it's easy to fly, you just sit on it, and she just jumps up

32:57 and it sits on it, and then once again she does it before anybody can get on the ship, so it's just the kids again. So the kids have to save the day once again. Kids on bikes, Kids on bikes my favorite style of story. How does this episode resonate to you in terms of the kids on bikes trip, I would say, well, that's the analysis. Analysis is they they literally safe, Like the stakes are so extremely high they're almost murdered. It's not just like I mean, which I feel like there's been a risk before, but it feels terrifying, like they're almost squeezed to death, like shit happens. They go back up to the space station or they go back up to the ship. It's like a literal imperial ship and it's terrifying. Uh So, I think from a perspective of like storytelling, it's the strongest you've ever had in terms of, Okay, these kids are doing it. They're doing it alone in a very dangerous situation, and it's still very funny, but it feels very dangerous. So and I'm a big fan. I wish I could dig into deeper themes with this within this episode, but this is just such an adventure episode. Yes, Star Wars first adventure first. The biggest themes are nature versus mechanical. Please respect the natural order of things because you don't need all of these fancy dancing

34:30 machines. Yes, and uh is it that straightforward? Perhaps because I don't necessarily think that there is a danger in the fancy dancing machines. It is in of course what we do with power, because the whole concept, right is like they have the sun Star, which is magical, it has a real it has a real Indiana Jones thing by the way with it, where it's like there's always this like sort of like weird scientist working for the Nazis who's like this dial of Destiny or the Arc of the Covenant, which is inherently magical, is going to like help in the war. And then all the Nazis are just like that's some stupid shit, you know. They're like that's not real. Sounds like magic silliness to me. And that like happens in this episode, like you know, like these Admiral caaz Is just like when he fails, he's like, like the sun Star never existed. You were just doing this to try to you know, to mutinate. And so that's just on aside because he you know, the sun Star is this force for good for the Ewoks, it's the force probably it is the Ewoks it is it helps with protecting their village and keeping the you know, power and

36:00 the magic of like the trees safe. Everything about it, right, which is community harmony? I guess with the land and then taking that and using it to make a weapon that will destroy life. So it's like maybe it's like, yeah, destruction versus nurturing of earth and people. We love thinking about that in conjunction with our foreign strepid heroes giving back to the environment by carrying the berries yea to the and the empire varies to the technology as a visual metaphor for man's attempt to control the environment by perverting all of these elements into something controllable, right right, Yeah, oppressed controllable, sort of reduced to their component parts of what will just be functional for me, as opposed to having any inherent value or worth. So yes, because are ewoks are good? They're good getting into misadventures, also helping PD just try and get out. Yeah, well they help each other. Little PD stolen stolen from his original owners and used by the Empire. I was expecting them to tie

37:35 it in somehow. But I'm really glad that we never found out who PD's owner. Oh yeah, I just yeah. I was like, don't but even to see the way that he's treated, because when they return back up, he's like, Okay, I've got this plan. I'll say that, like you stole me and then we're back and then you can do the thing to get this on star. And they're just like you're wifeless because you allowed yourself to be captured, you know, And it's just it's like, my god, yeah, Christ Almighty. The empire sucks. It does I've got I've got a hot tache. A empire's as Tell everybody I said it, tell them it was me. Are there any larger thematic things to talk about in regards to Battle for the SunStar? I wouldn't say. I don't know.

38:24 I was. I was with you where I was like, this is just some fun adventure. I was like, we are, dare I say it in trouble again? But the exact same thing about the exact same thing you did. I loved some droids was a big mean droid. There's a nice little sweet droid. There's there's uh that you walks dressed up as droids. It was very funny, a lot of good humor in the episode. I loved it. There is there anything else you love? Oh? You set me up for something? Mm hmm are you set me up for something?

39:06 I am okay, try it. Don't you take my walk lighter and clip it. Don't you take my Wretchord buddy and nip it. If you spill the tea, I'm gonna sip bit. I star ship it? Okay, okay, what are you doing asking the best thing in the entire world, especially today? Today is the day that I thought I'd have to wait a little bit longer. But no, no, no, no, no no. We have a wealth of ships because we're gonna identify our favorite starship z we do. We're gonna and our favorite romantic ship. Absolutely what do we got? You can start first because I feel like I went last time and I stole yours. Yes, I do that, you did steal space station case. Then this week I'm picking Doctor Ragar six ship. It is so good, damn it, I knew it. I love it. It's very millennium falcon asque. Also, what I notice most it looks most like just to beyond brand there's a ship in Star Trek into Darkness that is supposed to be Harry Mudd's transport that the Enterprise commandeer's and it looks Doctor Raygar ship looks almost exactly the same as that. Oh that's fun. It is a

40:37 it is a saucer, but it's a little flat looking Millennium Falcon ask protrusion going forward with two honking engines on the back. Honking. It's fab It's a classic Star Wars design while also being new. Yeah, because it's got to be so hard to a Star Wars starship that just looks like Star Wars because we all know it, but you're just like, not quite not really is it possible for me to say not his ship, but the like pod part of his ship absolutely? Okay, great, because that that is that was truly mine. Yes, basically it's like its own little Phantom to the Ghost kind of situation. But it's it's a it's just a circle. It's like a literal pod that is a sphere and it's the one that, yeah, they escape back down to Endoor and it's the one that Latara sets on to make it go and they go back up there, and I just I loved it. I loved that it was perfectly spherical, so silly. It's just like a weird little escape pod, I guess, and they're able to drive it around. And I love it. Actually to me, and I wrote this down in my notes, it looked like that escape pod that General Grievous used as an Episode three to escape from the Separatist ship. Remember that

42:12 big honkin round sphere. My dude, I don't, and I'm feeling mad because do you know who? I love, General Gravis. I love General Gravos, I love him. I'm interested to here why, to know why, which we will find out in about six episodes. We will find out pretty soon. Longer than that. It's going to because well, he's in he's in that, but he's in the other Clone Wars. Yes, he is introduced for the first time in that Clone Wars. Right. Oh, but wait a second, we have to watch the prequels first. Yeah, no, we watch episodes one and two. Oh, we watched the Clone Wars stuff. They watched Clone Wars. That's right, Ray Rori's but the first two prequels, right, yeah, because of this happened, I'd forgotten that. Like obviously it's the Clone Wars, which happens after Attack of the Clones. It's so funny. I can't believe I forgot about my favorites, the prequels, my secret favorites. Oh yeah, we will get to it soon. I'm telling you. We should. We set up an Episode one watch party. Oh man, maybe we did. I really because I have a sick version of I found a sick version of a thirty five millimeter scan of episode one that looks so sick, so good. It looks so so and I would love to sit down and watch it on a TV. Let's do it, I dude, I'm fucking just just ready for this. Yeah.

43:45 I don't remember, but I hope you're excited to hear about how I like one of the least liked characters, Roger Arson Ellis. Now he's also fine. It's not as bad to me as he as to other people. But I love general grieves cool. Speaking of general grievous, do you have any general grievances with any of the relationships here in this episode? Oh believe man, I'm going to go Yeah, I'm going to go with it. Shauna and Kirk, damn it. Okay, that was mine? Fine, I know which is is problematic and yet pretty hot. It's very sincere as well. Yeah, ittunate that Kirk is manipulating someone that is much lesser intellectual or not intellectually, but faculty wise, oh, experience wise, because she's literally we didn't get into this, but she's literally born on this place, like she's never been able to live or experience any other life beyond literally being enslaved. Yeah, like that is. It's necessarily like it's by definition a not an equal relationship in terms of power, and yet it is kind like he's trying very hard to He is both like, sorry, I don't mean to like step on your stuff, but he is both manipulating her because he

45:17 needs to get to a goal, but I think also feels very deeply for her well being. The lovely Bee at the end where Shanna realizes that she has been used and Kirk is like, uhha, the truth has come out, and also Shanner plays it beautifully where he is hurt because he truly has feelings for her. He wishes her the best, yeah, and wishes that he hadn't done it. And also if he hadn't done this the way he had, everyone would have been worse off because She's unfortunately a cog in a system that is oppressing everyone, but she does and I have the experience to be aware of it because she is born into this system. Is gangs Kellion the best episode ever? Just because of how complex this relationship is. I guess we didn't actually like hop into it enough. I mean I found it to be Also, the woman who played Shana is also I thought was giving a lovely performance as well, Angeline, I was Petty John. She's an interesting figure. I encourage you to go look into Angelique Petty John. This is difficult politically to reconcile, and I think it pulls off this plotline with a plot. Yeah, I found her to be wonderful. Yes, someone who doesn't have a lot of experience has a lot of power, but doesn't have that power, which is just very hard. I think if it were the kind of episode Frankly made these days, it could be far more interesting

46:52 to really get into. I have to tell you that the last piece of it, where she's looking up at the stars and she says that little that mini monologue, I started crying. As much as we've been going, this episode is just okay. Now that we're talking about this relationship. Oh no, it's actually increasing the value of this episode to me because it is such an interesting character dynamic, and they do kind of nail the ending, don't they in a way that could be a lot cornier, But there is something in the sincerity of that character and the way that Angela petty John is playing that character and in the oh, dare I say a gentle way? Dare dare? Again? Just want to remind you. Though he does kiss her and then punch her in the face, It is so funny to me.

47:44 It's so funny. Which is funnier Shanner kissing Shanna and then punching her or the hard cut from the Empire to the Ewok's Guns Hard Heart competition, But it is the punch interesting because I'm going to go to the mat for Jing Jing berries. It was just so unexpected. They all did that. They all punched out there. They're kind of their keepers. Yeah, I think it's I don't think it's perfect by any means. In a lot of ways, it doesn't feel great, but I think that in what they have and what they're dealing with, both them play it very well and very sincerely and as kind as they can and I think for an episode. You know, it's like I don't actually, but in a shipping kind of way, absolutely, I agree with you. Yeah, that's a good ship. It's a complex ship. Anyways, that's my ship. I guess it's fun to also once again pushing back. Seems like there might be a reason for a Kirk drift for because of episodes like this. But uh, mine is the mouse droid and Tibot dressed up as a droid. It's not exactly a mouse droid.

49:05 What is it? I more it is coded as mouse droid. But this droid has big eyes and the little tail, so it looks like an actual mouth. Yeah. Yes, it sees t bo and straight up does the like awuga thing and it like turns around. It's like I was like, it's great. I love it. Yeah, So that's mine. We did it. We did it aspen uh speaking of doing it, pie Boy's a symbol. Bye byes. It's time to go back to the centralceed of this episode, the central conceit of this entire podcast, which better Star Trek versus Star Wars, as we rank the cansers of Treskellian versus Battle for the sun Star. Since I went ahead and took Doctor Ragar's escape pod. I mean Doctor raygar ship first. Why don't you go ahead and start us off with the ranking starting with games Triskellion, Well, I did have some thoughts, but you're right that it's sort of pumped up slightly for me. I'm still annoyed by it. Five point nine. Five point nine. You do, here's the thing? You do? Love to see it? Yeah, I would have dropped it a little bit more. I've I think I've said why. I would dock it some points. I think it is reckless.

50:23 I think it's a little messy. At the same time, I do think it has very interesting relationships. A whura might also pop it up a little bit more asen be thoughtful, be thoughtful. Do we want to pop it up for a whura? Hmm, now it'll be okay, assume that aura is most of that point. Uh. It is interesting, it's a good adventure episode, definitely has a beginning of middle in it, and just like you said, it does have a compelling central a relationship. So for all of those reasons, I give it a six mm hmm. If I were to elaborate it would be the exact same reasons that you gave, which brings that total to a five point nine to play. But it's still anyone's game.

51:07 It's Aspen takes a sober, puts on their armor, puts on their little drid hat, and takes us to the battle for the SunStar Asthma, what do you rank this puppy? I hope I'm getting flirted with by a mouse droid. Can I just tell you before I do this that earlier in the episode, the sun Star episode, uh, there was this like purkle, which was an animal and it was trapped in this trap that like the doctor uh doctor regard done and when he got away, he went this little sad. Speaking of plot lines that we didn't even touch around, we didn't even touch upon the fact that Spot mccoin Scotti are on the Enterprise looking for them. It is a pointless thing. It's just like you're going on a wild goose chase. Go back to Game of two. They're going back on a wild goose chase. It's boring. McCoy knows Bock at this point knows that the spock is not given to wild hunches. It's constant for the sake of needing a b plot because we have to fill up space. It's exactly what it fell like. It's underestimating the characters. It is underestimating the intelligence of the characters. They would know. It's pretty boring. Yeah, you're right. I thought about that. We didn't even talk about it because there's nothing there's no function. You've seen that in other episodes, but that's not what Spock does. And Spock's right. We know this. Spock is right.

52:34 Yeah, unlike the Perkle that gets trapped and goes no, no, no, And we should have mentioned that because that is a central damps. Yes, very much. So what do you rank this episode? Battle for the Sun Star seven point three point? You do love to see it? I do. I liked it. I had a lot of fun. I will say I did get a little distracted at certain moments, but but but it was still action packed, very fun. Loved all the interactions these characters. Of course, at this point we know exactly what's up, and so it's very wonderful to then see them thrust into a new type of environment, knowing their skills, knowing their relationships with each other. So I think it worked out really well. Animation is always very beautiful, design, great characterization, and for all of those reasons, I ranked this episode of seven good hot adventure app If I have to show someone Eyok's I might start with this episode. Then't go to Asha oh yeah, because this one and then they'll be disappointed after. This one is a classic Star Wars. It feels like Star Wars and that way that we try to always identify what the feeling of Star Wars is. This feels like Star Wars but different. That brings it to the collective total of seven point one five, which means Aspen my portion of the pie winds. Thank you so much. This is a really wonderful

54:06 day for me to have won this award. I'm the one who put in the effort. Thank you so much for listening to this episode. We are big fans of this podcast. I don't know why I'm saying like that. Usually my outros are much clearer than that. I mean, we are big fans. That's true of our own podcast. Hopefully you are too. That's true, And if you are indeed big fans of our podcast, why don't you leave us review hop over to trek warspod dot com, click on the reviews tab be directed to the podcatcher of your choice and leave us a review one star, two star, three star, warstar, five star, preparably five star, justly. If you just want to get in contact with us, hop over to either our Instagram or Blue Sky search the handle at Trek Wars Pod. We like you and we love to chat with you. If you don't want to do that, send us email trek Warspod at gmail dot com. Finally, if you've exhausted all other notions of getting in touch with us, then freaking you know, find us. Fine, track us down, find our addresses. Come see I'm just kidding, Pulleys, don't our.

55:22 Blue Sky has popped up just a little bit with folks hopping over and ranking their three favorite pieces of both Star Trek and Star Wars separately. Awesome writer and co host of Fatman Beyond, Mark bernardin So and Batman Stories, comic book writer TV writer Cool Guy wrote back with his three favorite pieces of Star Trek and Star Wars by Gunn Rathacon Far Beyond the Stars, Yesterday's Enterprise for a Trek and Star Wars Empire Strikes Back a New Hope and and or all of those are rankings that I very much agree with Yeah, so you can find that over at our Blue Sky again at trek Wars Pod. Send us an email trek Warspod at gmail dot comment. Finally, if you love our Delca tones so much you wanna kick us a couple of bucks to help us keep the lights on apobitur Patreon, Patreon dot com slash trek Wars Pod.

56:21 Looks like we've got a comment in regards to our episode, our Patreon episode the Trouble with Triples versus bringing up Norgy and just my luck where I believe in the Patreon episode, I mean just the beginning of that episode proper, where we were doing other Katie Hepburn movies. Oh Katie yep burn Yes to its Jolty partner comment plugging in Star Wars or Star Trek things into other Katie Heptburn movies, to which Jolty partner responded on Golden Han, that's really good, Golden Han. Okay, job And if you too would love to leave clever witticisms on our Patreon like that, then join the fine auspices of fine folks such as Timbo De Sosa, Elie, Bryce love Haii Rogers, Kevin Miller, Mark Vibert, Ryan Hill, and finally a Jolty partner.

57:15 We love you, Love you. Any other business asthmen just show business? May right, Well, I don't call what we do show business. I call it friend business because you are my friend. I love you very much. You are my friend zero I haven't always will be your friends. I love you, I love you, I love you, Listeners, I love you. We love you. And as for always, may the Force be with you and live long and prosper s