We Don't Do Weddings vs. Bar Association

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Welcome to the Track Wars Podcast,
the one podcast that dares to answer the

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one question, the most important question
and fandom, which is better Star Trek

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or Star Wars by going through both
franchises in chronological release order. But sometimes

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we go a little bit off the
beaten path and join the lines of pro

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labor. That is not uncommon.
That is not that is very uncommon.

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Very rarely are we pro labor,
but this week they definitely are. I

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am Kenny Madison, the Star Trek
contingent with me Esper always as a co

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host with the mo host. It's
Askine Webster. It's me Star Wars fan

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and all fans. That's not true. We've got some here that will probably

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yeah, maybe truly. I am
exceedingly delighted to have the hosts of the

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Delusions of Grandeur podcast, Emily Gottec
Kelly Jones. Please tell me I said

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those names right. It's Gottic like
Attic like Adam. Yeah, yeah,

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that's all right, No worries.
Oh my god, can you make that?

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Is that like your Instagram handle Gati
matt mad woman in the gadic is

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my is my Blue Sky handle?
Which is the the Twitter methodone that I

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currently favor So, yeah, Kelly, stories like yours. Yours is very

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yours is closer than ninety percent of
people who have ever tried to pronounce my

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name, which is unfortunate. Because
I listened to the Delusions of Grandeur podcast.

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I don't know if you say last
names. No, it's just in

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the credits, so you're you're totally
excused. Who listens the credits? No,

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every time we do your credits,
I'm always like, God, I

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hope people listen to this because we
still say funny things back here, come

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on, listen. It's got a
little stingers. We're great and also speaking

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Jones Jones pretty good, right,
Yeah, I don't. Yeah, I

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wish that I had a fancy name, but I don't. Apparently, Scarlett

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Johansson is about to be Kelly Jones
in an upcoming film where she is responsible

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for faking the moon landing. So
Kelones is about to be dead to me,

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Oh of all the names in all
the world. Yeah, why oh

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man, that's kinda looks sad for
you. That trailer. I'm not sure

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how I don't like that trailer.
I think I know. Okay, great,

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I'm not the only one. Great, Absolutely, I'm confused by the

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trailer, but I will say it
does have Anna, who I don't know

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personally, but is is someone that
does lots of stuff on dropout TV.

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So a comedian based in La She
is in that film, which brings me

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a lot of joy for parasocial relationship
purposes. But otherwise I'm bewildered by the

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trailer. Bewildered so and now I'm
mad. So yeah, I was very

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excited there's going to be a NASA
romcom. Honestly, I was like,

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oh man, we're back baby,
but no, no, no, And

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I want to like it because I'm
a fanning of Channing. Magic Mike XXL

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is one of my favorite movies of
all time, asmen can confirm that,

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and so I love seeing Channing and
anything, especially like something said in the

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nineteen sixties. But like, it's
just not vibes, those vibes, man,

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I don't like anything that plays into
too common of controversy, like controversies,

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you know people conspiracy theories. Yeah, not real controversies, conspiracy theories.

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I'm like, guys, no,
listen, calmed down, gotten down,

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it's frue. So right now the
s is going to punch you right

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in the face if you say it
isn't will my dude, my king?

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Anyway, Star Wars and Star Trek
we are talking about space and that is

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on the track. Yeah, speaking
of buzz Aldre and Neil Armstrong was the

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first man on the moon and arms
Strong is what union people are as we

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cover both the Star Trek Deep Space
nine episode bar Association versus Star Wars Tables

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from the moss Isley Cantina, the
first story by Kathy Piers. We don't

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do weddings, that's right. We're
comparing books for you two well, episode

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a book. Yeah, we really, we really strong armed you into this

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premise, so cheply appreciate. Oh
it's good. That's good. Before we

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get too far into it, we
like to ask our guests what are your

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kind of origin stories with both Star
Wars and I guess possibly potentially Star Trek

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okay, Star Trek. My dad
was obsessed with the original series. Therefore,

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I love the original series. I
yeah, just love it. I

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don't know what else to say about
that. I wanted to be Spock when

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I grew up. That didn't happen, spoil, and then I tried to

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watch Next Generation as a like maybe
a ten year old, and the holid

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Deck freaked me out so much because
there you couldn't tell the difference between reality

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and fiction, but you could still
die and fiction. I was just profoundly

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confused and upset, and so did
not watch that until I was in labor

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with my child, and then I
decided, no time like the present,

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I'll just watch the next generation.
And the Deep Space nine episode we're going

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to talk about today is the first
and only Deep Space nine episode I've ever

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seen. Oh for some reason that
it was the goofy one, like of

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all of the Star Trek series,
I was like, that one, it

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seems like the most ridiculous. Apparently
that is incorrect. Apparently it is dark

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af and so I am looking forward
to driving to that later. Oh DS

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nine is perfect, perfect television.
Great, I can't. And then Star

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Wars like, I don't remember my
origin story because I feel like it's just

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always been a part. Yes,
but the origin story of my Star Wars

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relationship with Emily was that we both
grew up on opposite coasts, reading the

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Legends novels as they were released,
and then finally met in our late twenties.

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Yeah, sarly thirties, Yeah,
and did that thing where you wow,

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someone is like I like Star Wars
and you're like, well, I

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like Star Wars two, and you
sort of like circle around each other being

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like how much can I trust you
with my deep lore? And it turns

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out the same. And so for
like six years we talked about doing a

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Star Wars novels weekend podcast. We
tried a bunch of times, it never

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worked out, and then Delusions just
fucking happened, and now it lives.

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Yeah, it does. It's so
true, it's alive. I feel like

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I actually I didn't realize though about
your dad being a Star Trek fan.

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Our origin stories are remarkabusimilar. My
mom also a huge original series fan and

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a huge Next Generation fan. I
definitely remember watching that and Doctor Quinn Medicine

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Woman with her a lot, But
I didn't, like, really, I

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didn't have like the same like fever
for Star Trek as a kid that I

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did for Star Wars. I was
like eight when they re released the original

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trilogy in theaters and it blew my
tiny mind, and then I got super

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obsessed with them. I was reading
all the books. As I said on

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the show, I somehow I think
through my friend's mom, who worked for

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Chronicle Books, got a hold of
a copy of the script for Panton Menace

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before it came out. What yeah, yeah, yeah, I mean like

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two days, two days. It
was not very long, but and then

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I read it and my mom read
it, and she was like really worried

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because she could recognize that it was
bad and I was trying to, like

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jumper my expectations. But yeah,
and then I my mom, I moved

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back home to California, Kelly and
I met Charlotte Still. I moved back

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home in the early days of the
pandemic. So my mom and I rewatched

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like the original series and Next Generation, and then I started watching DS nine,

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So that's that's my Startrek journey.
Yeah, and I've watched other stuff

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like, oh, that's mostly it. I guess what what's the new one,

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like Strange New Worlds? Yes,
yes, yeah, I've enjoyed that.

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I haven't watched Picard. I have
a big, big Star Star Trek

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Knowledge Gaps. Yeah, it's mostly
those three, so no, it's okay.

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I would like to thank Kenny for
bringing two huge Star Wars fans on

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the podcast, thus proving that Star
Wars is better than Star Trek and logically

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you can just oh, now right, yeah, we did it, answered

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the cho I was seeing this beforehand. And I'll say this again. I've

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tried to listen to like other podcasts
regarding Star Wars Legends, which can get

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silly, and uh, Emily and
Kelly, both of y'all strike the exact

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same tone that I want to take, which is you take it very seriously,

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but at the same time you're like, there's a character called Luke Skywalker

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and that is like, that's objectively
silly. And also you before before the

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show and persuaded me to possibly read
Tattooing Ghosts, which I'm really pleased by

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by. Yeah we are we stand
behind Tattooing Ghosts. Yeah you should.

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We never read it before reading it
for the show, and it's pretty fun.

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Are there ghosts? This is a
question? Yeah, artists objective?

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Who is the tattooing ghost? I
think is Woa that the book might leave

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a little open ended, but probably
as Anakin Skywalker who like murdered a bunch

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of people on tattooing. But Mom, you can never really like pin down

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as a character. She's sort of
a ghost behind everything that happens. Yeah,

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you can't you're telling me that Smi
Skywalker is not the most well developed

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character in Star Wars? Can this
is going to help slightly? Yeah,

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a little bit. I mean there's
they find her diary and they listen to

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it like a podcast. Is there
as they're zooming around tattooing, which is

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very funny, and like Shebaka and
Hanslill get very into it. They're like,

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what is the next when's the next
episode or Shmi Skywalker hour? Like

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yeah, but it's the premise of
it is it's great. The pressode is

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really great. It's that a piece
of Aldanian art turns up at an underworld

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auction and Lea is trying to go
track it down. And then there's just

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great moments like Han Solo sees art
that inspires emotion in him for the first

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time. So he has this like
crisis throughout the book where he's like,

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do I do I feel things?
For art? Is like that what art

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is when you're constantly living on the
edge just trying to survive? Do we

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have the leisure exactly? Answer like
in depth what Han Solo's previous art experience

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would be, And it's probably like
a girl in a bikini writing a Ferrari

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poster. Yeah, it's like this
is a classic dorm room like reservoir dogs

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poster. I think, like an
Yeah, he's like this Sabak figurines are

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so well designed. Oh my god, you know he's really terrible Sabak tattoo

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somewhere. Yeah. Is there a
possibility because I just I mean, we're

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right now, we're going through Tos
versus the Clone Wars, and I just

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discovered that pin up art exists canonically
within the Star Wars universe. Is that

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amazing? Is it possible that that
pin up art could be something that Han

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Solo past? Thank you val Values. I think thousand percent. Yeah,

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there's no question in my mind.
I had forgotten. So you read True

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Abakra for our first, our first
book, and there's a whole scene where

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he is seducing Lea on the falcon
on what I can only describe as like

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one of those nineties blow up couches, you know what I mean, Like,

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yeah, the like PBC like transparent, like Furnisher of the nineties,

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which which love it. Chewbacca inflated
for him because he's the best wingman.

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Yeah. Yeah, so I think
like frat fratt boy esthetic is definitely canonically

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on solo craph speaking. This is
what you can learn by reading his books.

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Yeah, so excited. I mean, I've been eager to dive into

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the EU. Uh maybe eager is
not the right word. I'm making my

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way through the Star Star Trek Star
Trek Extended Universe books. I also love

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Europe, So that's not that's not
I'm not I'm not talking about that at

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all. I'm not talking about but
I'm talking about the extended universe of Star

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Wars. Do you want what I'm
just you know, I'm talking about the

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things that our guests are are familiar
with, an experts with, and I

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want them to talk about it because
I just like listening to them. Anyways,

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Kenny, there's a lot of pro
union and labor sentiment in Europe.

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Depends on what country, two seguys
to go on. Please take us into

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a segue France, now, I
think you me in Ireland, especially in

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our friend comb. Yes, my
god, oh my god, Miles O'Brien,

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you know right, yes, oh
my gosh. Speaking of Miles O'Brien,

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I think that's a great segue to
read the synopsis for our pieces starting

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with star tuk Te Space nine Bar
Association Meet Here a story by Barbara J.

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Lee and Jennifer A. Lee.
Teleplay by Robert Hewitt Wolf and Iris

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Stephen Bear, first aired February nineteenth, nineteen ninety six. Director LeVar Burton

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heard of him Aspen Yeah but Bye
and the Sky Also, of course,

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Jordi from Next Generation. Yes from
are Nude Tila from IMDb. It's the

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majority in time of cleansing, and
business is very slow. At Quark's bar,

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Rom's ear is aching up again.
He even faints, but gets no

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sickly from Quark. When Coark announces
a pay cut for all the employees,

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Rom is fed up. On advice
from Bashir, he decides to start a

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union, strictly forbidden by Franki law, but Rom is determined and convinces all

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the other employees to join. At
first, Quark laughs, then finds himself

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without the striking staff. Still,
he won't give in, just when Captain

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Cisco orders him to end the strike, Liquidator Brunt arrives. Meanwhile, Wharf

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still has problems settling on the station. He dislikes that security is less than

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on the enterprise debatable. He is
annoyed by the continuous technological malfunctions that's even

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more debatable, and Ewan gets into
a fight with O'Brien Abasher over entering Quark's

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bar. Wharf sees only one solution, Uh, thank you are nude.

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We appreciate your contributions to IDB for
our purposes of making content. There's a

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lot if you don't have the DS
nine context here, it might be a

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little bit like what's going on with
the wharf? Who is that? But

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specifically, here's all you need to
know is for you, Kelly, I

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think that it's not even it's about
wharfl Like this isn't the Union side,

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it's him trying to adapt, but
really it's about him and Gensia like flirting.

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Yeah, so Kelly picked up I'm
not right away. I got a

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touch. It's the first scene and
I got to tell it's seconds in.

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That was like, yes, the
answer is yes to him, that's all

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you need to No. Oh god, yeah, it's a whole thing too.

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But I was like, I actually
couldn't remember where this was in their

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timeline, and I was just like, are they already? And I was

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00:16:41.960 --> 00:16:48.200
like, oh no, it's just
the beginning. This is season episode fifteen.

201
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That's whenever Wharf came to DS nine. And then this is about the

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middle of the season. So he's
getting I mean, obviously he's still getting

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settled. It's still getting settled in
so many ways. This whole thing.

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She's she's got some pass. There's
like a worm and she's like Curson was

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00:17:07.319 --> 00:17:12.119
friends with clan. Don't worry about
it. I was just profoundly confused why

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he was there. Okay. The
interesting part of that episode is the union

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stuff, and then there was work
and there was work here. Yeah.

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The interesting part was the part where
Myles O'Brien said he was more than a

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00:17:25.000 --> 00:17:29.839
hero. He was a Oh my
god, I'm clapping on the couch love

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00:17:29.880 --> 00:17:33.000
it. It's so good. Now
you know, now you know where the

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00:17:33.039 --> 00:17:37.599
meme is from. Yes, exactly, Okay, so I will do uh

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00:17:37.759 --> 00:17:44.400
the summary for our other our Star
Wars piece, which, as we mentioned,

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00:17:44.880 --> 00:17:48.680
I know, it's so great.
So it is a it is part

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00:17:48.720 --> 00:17:53.680
of the greater book of uh the
way the Tales from Most I can Most

215
00:17:53.720 --> 00:17:59.319
Isley Cantina by Kathy Tires, and
this story is we don't do weddings the

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00:17:59.359 --> 00:18:04.240
band tale really say. It was
July ninety five, pretty cool. Ah,

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00:18:07.079 --> 00:18:15.240
that's what Wikipedia tell me. So
let's see figuring Don in the modal

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00:18:15.279 --> 00:18:21.960
notes bopping Bithians and members in good
standing of the Intergalactic Federation of Musicians or

219
00:18:22.000 --> 00:18:26.680
under exclusive contract to Java's palace.
They're hoofing it up when Java's arch rivals

220
00:18:26.720 --> 00:18:30.200
sent e five to two to a
recycled Assassinroid to make them an offer they

221
00:18:30.200 --> 00:18:36.400
couldn't refuse. Figuring Don didn't do
weddings, but Lady Valerian had imported herself

222
00:18:36.400 --> 00:18:38.559
a whipid mate from her home world, and what's dead said on getting hitched

223
00:18:38.559 --> 00:18:44.440
in high style? And what would
figuring Don's gambling debts three thousand credits could

224
00:18:44.480 --> 00:18:48.200
set them up just fine? Before
they could cut the cake, Lady VAL's

225
00:18:48.200 --> 00:18:52.880
bounty hunter bridegroom took Java's bait Skip
down to find Han Solo and the party

226
00:18:52.920 --> 00:18:56.200
exploded in a murderous mayhem. And
from what I can tell is how they

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end up ultimately at the challenge Spaceport
Canteina, where we see them at the

228
00:19:03.640 --> 00:19:08.119
beginning of a new hope. Exactly
accurate. Yep, little is this like

229
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I just want to say that this
is there's a touch of like a Rosencrantz

230
00:19:11.279 --> 00:19:15.839
and Guildensterner Dead kind of vibe to
this of like your main characters are like

231
00:19:17.000 --> 00:19:19.200
kind of being mentioned or popping up
at it and be like, what's the

232
00:19:19.240 --> 00:19:26.799
band new one? Yeah, just
like so good. There's so many stories

233
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where someone is it's literally the bar
and they'll be like that guy just cut

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00:19:32.720 --> 00:19:38.440
that other guy's arm off with a
lightsaber anyway, chinery, Yeah, I

235
00:19:38.680 --> 00:19:44.559
love it. One of the audio
by the way, it was like an

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00:19:44.680 --> 00:19:47.440
they turned it into a couple of
them. I guess into like little audio

237
00:19:47.480 --> 00:19:49.480
dramas. So it has like music
in the back and it's like I got

238
00:19:49.559 --> 00:19:55.319
that. Yeah, yeah, I
was just like, z oh, it

239
00:19:55.400 --> 00:20:02.599
is the whole chest. Just know
what. Apparently they're thinking about being like,

240
00:20:02.640 --> 00:20:03.880
oh no, let's change the name, and I'm like, you can

241
00:20:03.960 --> 00:20:11.240
do that over my dead body.
So we got to stay consistent. Yeah,

242
00:20:11.240 --> 00:20:14.640
I'm sorry I interrupted you. I'm
like, I agree tradition. No,

243
00:20:14.759 --> 00:20:17.359
yeah, yeah, it's it's a
I think that's kind of the charm

244
00:20:17.440 --> 00:20:22.759
of the EU books often is like
it's basically anyone who's ever had one second

245
00:20:22.759 --> 00:20:26.720
of screen time gets like a whole
inner life, and uh we find out

246
00:20:26.839 --> 00:20:32.279
like Wedge Antilli's who, I think, conservatively across the whole original trilogy gets

247
00:20:32.720 --> 00:20:37.599
i don't know, maybe two minutes
on screen blowing up even two actors blowing

248
00:20:37.680 --> 00:20:41.839
up farries, death stars, et
cetera. Like we get his whole military

249
00:20:41.839 --> 00:20:45.079
career, rich inner life from Whidge
constantly popping up is like a side character

250
00:20:45.079 --> 00:20:48.680
but also the main character in a
bunch of books. So he's probably the

251
00:20:48.720 --> 00:20:52.680
most extreme example. But yeah,
there's there's a lot of kind of like

252
00:20:52.880 --> 00:20:55.880
delving into these little side people,
and I like it a lot. That's

253
00:20:55.880 --> 00:21:00.160
actually an interesting Now I'm like curious
about the like EU like books relationship because

254
00:21:00.160 --> 00:21:04.599
Wedge does show up in Clone Wars
significantly too. I think, well,

255
00:21:04.640 --> 00:21:08.359
I mean everyone loves Wedge, but
yeah, everyone's accomplishes a lot. Yeah,

256
00:21:08.599 --> 00:21:12.920
yeah, it's great eyebrows. Yeah, I mean there's certain things also.

257
00:21:14.039 --> 00:21:17.599
I think in Rebels, right,
Thron is a character who's created for

258
00:21:17.680 --> 00:21:21.839
the EU, who's like left over
and he's great. Yeah, yeah,

259
00:21:21.920 --> 00:21:25.359
yes, that's that's the whole what
yep. Oh yeah, Kenny doesn't.

260
00:21:25.960 --> 00:21:29.559
Oh matter of fact, I know, I am Kenny was just googling Wedge

261
00:21:29.599 --> 00:21:34.200
Antilli's eyebrows. Oh yeah, uh, Kelly outstanding. Thank you for picking

262
00:21:34.279 --> 00:21:38.119
up on that because you said great
eyebrows and I'm looking right here. Yeah,

263
00:21:38.319 --> 00:21:44.039
gotta say you're not wrong. And
I'm even looking at episode nine Wedge

264
00:21:44.079 --> 00:21:48.680
Antillies where it's kind of weird that
he's still wearing his X wing outfit.

265
00:21:48.799 --> 00:21:52.759
I don't know what he's still got
those great eyebrows, But yes, I

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00:21:53.079 --> 00:21:57.519
can confirm that point number two.
I am notoriously anti thron Well, sorry,

267
00:21:57.559 --> 00:22:02.440
real quick, real quick, Kelly. Yeah, are you like a

268
00:22:02.480 --> 00:22:07.720
body language expert? Second time I've
heard you like pick up on something that

269
00:22:07.799 --> 00:22:11.720
wasn't so obvious based on look alone, not professionally. Well, that's fine.

270
00:22:11.759 --> 00:22:18.160
Tell me all about Princess Catherine.
Well, yeah, anyway, Kenny

271
00:22:18.279 --> 00:22:21.279
isn't I don't know. I can't
remember Kenny. Do you not like the

272
00:22:21.319 --> 00:22:27.000
thront him in the original books?
Or I don't like the prospect where I

273
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in the EU that I have read, Please please don't shoot me Emily and

274
00:22:32.200 --> 00:22:37.680
Kelly. I don't like the prospect
that they're like the greatest military strategist of

275
00:22:37.720 --> 00:22:45.359
all time was over there? Yeah? Oh, and then he just keeps

276
00:22:45.440 --> 00:22:48.559
at least I've only read Air to
the Empire and Dark Force Rising. I'll

277
00:22:48.559 --> 00:22:52.039
get to the last command at some
point because they didn't really grow up with

278
00:22:52.079 --> 00:22:56.079
the e with the Star Wars EU. I'm just like being the greatest.

279
00:22:57.240 --> 00:23:03.440
I'm I'm excited, and I don't
like the prospect of like he keeps getting

280
00:23:03.440 --> 00:23:08.240
defeated pretty well. No, in
Dark Force Rising, he doesn't get defeated.

281
00:23:08.240 --> 00:23:17.440
He kind of wins, right,
because that's the think about to answer

282
00:23:17.480 --> 00:23:21.119
your first question. So we have
some theories about this. We go about

283
00:23:21.119 --> 00:23:25.799
why Thron is over there, and
I think that it's less about Thron and

284
00:23:25.799 --> 00:23:30.079
it's more about Palpatine, because if
you are Emperor Palpatine, first of all

285
00:23:30.400 --> 00:23:37.319
super racist, Thron is the highest
ranking non like he's humanoid, but he's

286
00:23:37.359 --> 00:23:45.599
an alien species that there ever has
been. And Palpatine likes to keep middle

287
00:23:45.640 --> 00:23:48.880
management around him who have no ambitions
to be anything other than middle management.

288
00:23:49.359 --> 00:23:53.839
But Thron could take over the whole
shebang and do it really well without the

289
00:23:53.880 --> 00:23:57.680
Force, and I think that Palpatine
is like, oh, I can't have

290
00:23:57.720 --> 00:24:02.880
that next to me. I definitely
need his input, but I need him

291
00:24:03.440 --> 00:24:07.880
way over there. I appreciate there's
some stuff in the later books where we

292
00:24:07.920 --> 00:24:12.279
find out there's this other race that's
coming from outside the galaxy, and Thron's

293
00:24:12.279 --> 00:24:15.920
supporters would say, but that's what
he's been doing. He's been hanging out

294
00:24:15.920 --> 00:24:19.799
on the outer rim, blocking of
a worse threat than the Empire, and

295
00:24:19.839 --> 00:24:22.559
that's why he that's why he took
a job with the Empire. It's like

296
00:24:22.599 --> 00:24:26.519
Captain Marvel, She's like, there's
all this stuff going on. I can't

297
00:24:26.519 --> 00:24:30.559
be there. I don't spoil it. But I think that's a valid question.

298
00:24:30.920 --> 00:24:33.079
Yes, I think, you know, And it's it is very like

299
00:24:33.119 --> 00:24:37.559
Sharlock Combs and Watson, Like we
have him and his little like, you

300
00:24:37.599 --> 00:24:41.279
know, his buddy Captain Pellian.
He's just like standing around to be like

301
00:24:41.160 --> 00:24:47.079
amazing. Yeah, but yeah,
we don't usually see things from Thron's perspective,

302
00:24:47.200 --> 00:24:49.359
right, we see things from like
his lapdog's perspective. And so of

303
00:24:49.359 --> 00:24:52.960
course he's like, ah, He's
like, why did I love him so

304
00:24:52.039 --> 00:24:57.640
much? Why did he disappear?
And smoke? Hope you with I'm back.

305
00:25:00.079 --> 00:25:02.880
I'm a true problem with Ron.
Yeah, yeah, that's right,

306
00:25:03.319 --> 00:25:08.039
constantly playing the violin high. Yeah, it's so weird. I think that's

307
00:25:08.039 --> 00:25:11.319
a valid critique of frown. I
think it's nice. I feel like in

308
00:25:11.519 --> 00:25:15.319
ken of he's on interviews and stuff, he talks about how he wanted to

309
00:25:15.359 --> 00:25:18.680
create He's like, what is Palpatine's
motivation for any of this? We have

310
00:25:18.720 --> 00:25:21.880
no idea. He just likes to
meddle and cackle, right, and then

311
00:25:22.319 --> 00:25:25.920
Vader is kind of like a religious
fanatic, right and then but like what

312
00:25:26.000 --> 00:25:27.240
is the empire? And this is
like he's like, what would happen if

313
00:25:27.240 --> 00:25:30.279
there's someone who like truly believed in
fascism? And like how would they?

314
00:25:30.359 --> 00:25:33.920
And you like wanted to follow them
because of that? And that's that's what

315
00:25:33.039 --> 00:25:37.160
Ron is supposed to be. And
I think that's an interesting take. That

316
00:25:37.319 --> 00:25:42.960
is rad I mean love I love
all of those answers, even though I

317
00:25:44.000 --> 00:25:51.559
fundamentally disagree with them, because they're
extremely well thought out. Yeah yeah,

318
00:25:51.640 --> 00:25:57.319
right, you are smart Brown and
uh and Rebels just has a straight up

319
00:25:57.400 --> 00:26:06.240
piece of like Twilight art that's like
very important to this royal family and it's

320
00:26:06.279 --> 00:26:08.400
like a huge plot piece of like
trying to get it back as well,

321
00:26:08.680 --> 00:26:15.200
like that Venus and yeah, and
it's just it's a very strong like like

322
00:26:15.599 --> 00:26:22.279
uh, English museums just like stealing
shit, you know, like other Western

323
00:26:22.400 --> 00:26:26.160
Western places like stealing and being like
it's ours now what you're gonna do so

324
00:26:26.720 --> 00:26:32.480
very much? That vibe well,
But I guess this isn't about fron right,

325
00:26:33.680 --> 00:26:38.200
this is about unions. I didn't
even know until reading this, by

326
00:26:38.200 --> 00:26:41.880
the way, that there were any
unions in the Star Wars galaxy. The

327
00:26:41.880 --> 00:26:45.440
integri lack Con Federation of Musicians.
That's right, actually, and we in

328
00:26:45.559 --> 00:26:48.759
Shadows the Empire like a union also
comes up really briefly, which is super

329
00:26:48.759 --> 00:26:53.079
funny. There's like a crime boss
and he's having his like weekly taking bribes

330
00:26:53.119 --> 00:26:56.119
meetings, and the head of the
sex Works of union, of course that

331
00:26:56.240 --> 00:27:00.759
comes in and is like, we
have some real problem, like that we're

332
00:27:00.799 --> 00:27:03.160
not getting paid correctly, and he's
like, I will take care of it,

333
00:27:03.720 --> 00:27:07.519
anything for my union brethren, and
then totally out of nowhere. Yeah.

334
00:27:07.759 --> 00:27:12.079
Famously, Lando Calrissian is constantly paying
people to make sure that his workers

335
00:27:12.119 --> 00:27:18.720
don't unionize. I know, sommer
Lando incredible at everything, especially capes,

336
00:27:18.240 --> 00:27:23.799
terrible when it comes to labor.
Lando has dropped in esteem for me.

337
00:27:25.160 --> 00:27:29.200
That makes sense. We meet him
because he's got what Cloud City going on,

338
00:27:29.319 --> 00:27:33.720
empire and then aired to the Empire, he's got his own new or

339
00:27:33.319 --> 00:27:37.039
yeah, it's air of the Empire
because they got those little those little crawlers,

340
00:27:37.680 --> 00:27:42.119
and he's just running another business operation. So he's a business owner and

341
00:27:42.160 --> 00:27:48.079
so he has incentive to be anti
union. It's opportunist, right, Even

342
00:27:48.119 --> 00:27:52.400
though I do like Lando more than
Han Solo. Okay, Well, A

343
00:27:52.440 --> 00:27:56.720
funny part of like you though,
is Lando is basically only space capitalist.

344
00:27:56.720 --> 00:28:00.799
Everyone else has a government job on
both sides, you know, like literally

345
00:28:00.799 --> 00:28:03.240
everyone else is going to get a
pension and Landa is the only one out

346
00:28:03.240 --> 00:28:08.359
there doing capitalism. I mean maybe
town Card, but town Card is also

347
00:28:08.440 --> 00:28:11.279
kind of, as we talked about
the podcast, a Manic Pixie dream Boss,

348
00:28:11.319 --> 00:28:15.400
like he's like, I'm doing this
all from my employees. Yep,

349
00:28:15.519 --> 00:28:19.680
I'm making them a beautiful buffet when
they're not smuggling. Sorry, that's a

350
00:28:19.839 --> 00:28:23.720
that's a deep cut for those who
are not into these books. I like

351
00:28:23.759 --> 00:28:30.400
the idea of a manic Pixie dream
boss a lot, so say we all,

352
00:28:30.079 --> 00:28:33.200
I would love to have one in
real life, but I don't think

353
00:28:33.200 --> 00:28:37.720
they exists. Yeah, y'all can
talk a little bit more. Because the

354
00:28:37.960 --> 00:28:44.960
union stuff within we don't do weddings. It feels quite ancillary. As opposed

355
00:28:45.039 --> 00:28:49.720
to what we uh. You first
off in your initial episode about the Tales

356
00:28:49.720 --> 00:28:55.400
from the Massie Legue Cantina. I
loved your analysis that this was basically like

357
00:28:55.559 --> 00:28:59.039
some like it hot, but in
Star Wars there's a whole bunch of shit

358
00:28:59.200 --> 00:29:03.319
agains. There is no cross dressing
in this one. But you're absolutely right

359
00:29:03.319 --> 00:29:10.680
on point, because it's a whole
bunch of Sananigan's but we and it's it's

360
00:29:10.720 --> 00:29:15.240
a delightful romp uh. He talks
about our main character, which unfortunately I

361
00:29:15.279 --> 00:29:26.200
forget what his name is, Doyke
because figuring Figuring is the one that leads

362
00:29:26.240 --> 00:29:29.640
it, and it's Douyke like narrating
and talking about him because it was like

363
00:29:29.720 --> 00:29:32.559
Figuring is the one that gambled away
their money. I was like, what

364
00:29:32.759 --> 00:29:38.480
a jack? Yes in the first
place, Yeah, Figuring Don in the

365
00:29:38.480 --> 00:29:44.079
modal notes were a big deal.
They played lots of coliseums. I guess

366
00:29:44.119 --> 00:29:48.920
they frequently played Madison Square Garden,
but Figuring Don basically gambled all of it,

367
00:29:48.960 --> 00:29:52.920
and they're stuck on tattooing and they're
stuck in this contract for playing job

368
00:29:52.279 --> 00:29:56.279
job of the Hut and the whole
Imagine if Bruno Mars had gotten like addicted

369
00:29:56.319 --> 00:30:00.240
to gambling, and like Reno,
I feel like that's that's the situation we're

370
00:30:00.960 --> 00:30:04.240
facing right now, you know.
Yeah, and then and then there was

371
00:30:04.279 --> 00:30:11.079
a weird casino bar fight and Reno
and then the cops came just ran Wow,

372
00:30:11.759 --> 00:30:15.400
yeah, yeah, I'm with you, kiddy. That I too.

373
00:30:15.440 --> 00:30:18.480
I was listening to I was like, I wonder when the union's gonna like

374
00:30:18.559 --> 00:30:19.839
keep it because they're in the contract. They want to They're trying to break

375
00:30:19.839 --> 00:30:23.359
the contract because they're like man I
could like get fed to a rank or

376
00:30:23.440 --> 00:30:27.319
at any point. I'm like,
does the union protect them from like that

377
00:30:27.400 --> 00:30:33.319
type of I would say, unfair
treatment by by crime bosses, Like I

378
00:30:33.319 --> 00:30:34.880
guess. I was like, what's
the like, what is the poll of

379
00:30:34.920 --> 00:30:40.440
the of the of the of the
union on these our planets? Ifttie that's

380
00:30:40.440 --> 00:30:45.000
a good question. And also,
I mean with in this, it feels

381
00:30:45.039 --> 00:30:49.559
like Doyke is a little bit like
we had to join the union, that's

382
00:30:49.640 --> 00:30:56.279
how bad things are. But correct
me if I'm correct, me, correct

383
00:30:56.319 --> 00:31:00.160
me if I'm wrong. And also
the entire the entire thing is from the

384
00:31:00.200 --> 00:31:03.960
point of view, and there's lots
of standigans they have to duck behind a

385
00:31:04.039 --> 00:31:12.440
van and remember correctly. And then
also just music exists, but also swing

386
00:31:12.599 --> 00:31:17.680
music exists within Star Wars, which
was fascinating to me. I was just

387
00:31:17.720 --> 00:31:25.000
like, what is the delineation from
there? Sorry? Please, I don't

388
00:31:25.000 --> 00:31:26.400
know. There are a lot of
shenanigans. I think the only thing we

389
00:31:26.440 --> 00:31:32.680
get about the Intergalactic Federation of Musicians
is that they're in good standing. That's

390
00:31:32.680 --> 00:31:36.440
like all we know. And they
use it as like a I'm a card

391
00:31:36.440 --> 00:31:38.759
carrying member, like you can't do
this to me, but nobody comes to

392
00:31:38.759 --> 00:31:42.720
rescue them. Yeah. I think
it's one of those things where it's like,

393
00:31:44.480 --> 00:31:47.000
you know, the classic thing where
you move to another state for lower

394
00:31:47.039 --> 00:31:48.759
taxes and then you realize, like
there's a real trade off there. Maybe

395
00:31:49.400 --> 00:31:52.880
it's a right to work state on
tattooed. I don't I don't know.

396
00:31:53.680 --> 00:31:56.680
As someone that lives in Texas,
I don't know what you are. I

397
00:31:56.680 --> 00:32:00.440
don't know what you're talking about.
Everything is very chill. Everyone likes the

398
00:32:00.519 --> 00:32:07.680
politics. It's very same saying it's
great they're not moving to Los Angeles,

399
00:32:07.839 --> 00:32:14.960
California, it's great. It reminds
me very much a lot of the teachers

400
00:32:15.039 --> 00:32:21.359
unions in Texas, which are they
try their best but are relatively like kind

401
00:32:21.400 --> 00:32:24.079
of toothless, and what they are
actually able to affect, especially with like

402
00:32:24.119 --> 00:32:29.640
the comparison of seeing like teachers unions
in California that were able to like effectively

403
00:32:30.279 --> 00:32:35.440
uh negotiate for higher pay, whereas
here in Texas there just there they cannot

404
00:32:35.920 --> 00:32:38.519
get to that point. So yeah, ostensibly there's a union, but what

405
00:32:38.599 --> 00:32:46.480
is it actually doing in this please
Texas? So yeah, that sounds like

406
00:32:46.480 --> 00:32:51.000
the vibe. I mean, I
remember listening to Delusions of Grandeur and not

407
00:32:51.119 --> 00:32:52.920
just keep bringing up the fact that
I listened to y'all's podcast, but you're

408
00:32:52.920 --> 00:32:57.920
also talking about like, uh,
what I believe was in the air to

409
00:32:57.960 --> 00:33:00.400
the Empire chunk of just being like
what are the their jobs? Like what

410
00:33:00.680 --> 00:33:07.359
how does Luke? Because there's there's
economics within Star Wars. This exists.

411
00:33:07.920 --> 00:33:13.720
People get paid credits, but then
there's this whole line of books where they're

412
00:33:13.720 --> 00:33:17.920
doing space adventures, but like how
are they getting which yeh yeah, which

413
00:33:17.960 --> 00:33:22.799
then becks the questions, what are
the economics of Star Wars? What are

414
00:33:22.000 --> 00:33:27.200
labor movements within Star Wars? How
do our characters feel like it? Lando

415
00:33:27.359 --> 00:33:30.680
is as you've said, it's anti
union. What the heck does that mean?

416
00:33:30.759 --> 00:33:37.200
As opposed to Star Trek's utopian economics, where it's extremely handwavy of being

417
00:33:37.240 --> 00:33:40.279
like, don't think about it,
just works. Don't think about it,

418
00:33:40.279 --> 00:33:44.240
it just works. Star Treks or
economics, they don't exist, but they

419
00:33:44.240 --> 00:33:45.759
do. Don't worry about it.
Yeah, I mean Star Wars is a

420
00:33:45.759 --> 00:33:51.759
little hand wavy in the sense that, like our main characters, you know

421
00:33:52.079 --> 00:33:54.079
that your Luke's, your Leya's,
your Han Solo's, a lot of them

422
00:33:54.200 --> 00:33:59.960
just go to Princess Leiah for a
handout. Like apparently she's incredibly wealth.

423
00:34:00.599 --> 00:34:04.440
She has all this all Duranian princess
money, even though the planet is no

424
00:34:04.519 --> 00:34:10.400
longer there, spoiling offshore accounts,
Yeah, offshore all terranean accounts. And

425
00:34:10.519 --> 00:34:15.400
we were just reading in Shadows of
the Empire. She they were like trapped

426
00:34:15.400 --> 00:34:21.559
in a hallway and uh Luke and
Lando like pulled out all of these thermal

427
00:34:21.599 --> 00:34:23.920
detonators, you know, the little
ball thing that she takes into Jaba's palace

428
00:34:23.960 --> 00:34:27.519
and like threatens to blow them up
with in Return of the Jedi, this

429
00:34:27.559 --> 00:34:32.719
is where they get them and nuclear
weapons and that section I'm sorry, what

430
00:34:34.440 --> 00:34:37.199
so they couldn't have been cheap first
of all. Second of all, she

431
00:34:37.239 --> 00:34:39.760
picks them up and she's like what
is this and they tell her, you

432
00:34:39.800 --> 00:34:44.559
know, it's a thermodetonator and she's
like great, and she puts it in

433
00:34:44.599 --> 00:34:46.440
a purse and they're like, well, we were going to use it,

434
00:34:46.440 --> 00:34:49.639
and she's like, well, I
want to save it for later, and

435
00:34:49.639 --> 00:34:52.400
they're like, I mean we bought
it with your money anyway. So they

436
00:34:52.400 --> 00:34:58.599
have been like going around with like
Leah's line of credit, just charging things

437
00:34:58.880 --> 00:35:01.480
and being like she'll in it.
Yeah, the Republic will get it,

438
00:35:01.480 --> 00:35:07.119
the Alliance will get it, the
Rebels will get it. Feeling weirdly jealous,

439
00:35:07.199 --> 00:35:12.159
right, it's crazy, and I
would Another funny part of the EU

440
00:35:12.239 --> 00:35:15.000
is as Hans Solo for the vast
majority of it, has no job,

441
00:35:15.079 --> 00:35:16.840
and he's like totally cool about it, Like he's just like I will be

442
00:35:17.079 --> 00:35:22.679
like your stay at home spouse and
the father of your children, no problem

443
00:35:22.920 --> 00:35:27.960
hate working for a wage. Also
the same, they exist. It's it's

444
00:35:27.960 --> 00:35:32.159
surprisingly like considering when they were written, it's yeah, kind of shockingly uh

445
00:35:32.679 --> 00:35:37.159
progressive, but it's true. There
is some union stuff. I feel like

446
00:35:37.159 --> 00:35:43.000
an and or obviously it comes out
a little more money gender money, and

447
00:35:44.840 --> 00:35:46.960
that's man, mathma's whole deal.
I'm going to have this money around.

448
00:35:47.400 --> 00:35:52.800
Yeah. Am I going to sell
my daughter into marriage? Oh my god?

449
00:35:52.480 --> 00:35:59.719
Yeah. And Or of course has
been the most loudly like like workers

450
00:35:59.800 --> 00:36:04.800
right and yeah, like, which
is probably why it is so appealing to

451
00:36:04.840 --> 00:36:10.039
me, in addition of being so
well written and great, how interesting.

452
00:36:10.119 --> 00:36:14.119
Yeah, But I think I think
that is kind of the thing about Star

453
00:36:14.119 --> 00:36:16.280
Wars that is sort of funny,
is most people do have government jobs,

454
00:36:16.360 --> 00:36:21.440
and like, I don't know,
like that is that is does kind of

455
00:36:21.440 --> 00:36:24.239
crack me up. Considering again,
when especially when the EU is written in

456
00:36:24.280 --> 00:36:28.119
the nineties, I wouldn't have expected
all the protagonists to be like, I'm

457
00:36:28.159 --> 00:36:30.719
a career civil servant, but they
are, like literally even the villains are,

458
00:36:31.159 --> 00:36:35.960
you know, like Thron presumably is
getting a pension as a as an

459
00:36:35.960 --> 00:36:37.800
imperial admiral, you know, like, uh, it just it does really

460
00:36:37.800 --> 00:36:40.920
crack me up. Which that's I
think. I mean, yeah, that's

461
00:36:40.960 --> 00:36:45.480
fine, but then also, uh, it's it's just weird whatever your your

462
00:36:45.519 --> 00:36:51.440
space fantasy then just begs economic questions
as well, and then starts putting labels

463
00:36:51.920 --> 00:36:55.400
on things, which is I mean, make no mistake, I absolutely adore

464
00:36:55.440 --> 00:37:00.840
and Or, and I think it's
an incredibly relevant piece of fiction just period.

465
00:37:00.880 --> 00:37:02.840
And then also it happens to have
the Star Wars label on top of

466
00:37:02.880 --> 00:37:09.280
it. I'm also interest just within
the political context of how like the I

467
00:37:09.280 --> 00:37:14.800
mean, this book and then the
books that are mentioning what the heck the

468
00:37:15.079 --> 00:37:20.679
workers movement? Not necessarily the workers
movement, but I guess the working structure

469
00:37:21.719 --> 00:37:25.119
is within like the mid nineteen nineties, whenever I feel like the Star Wars

470
00:37:25.239 --> 00:37:31.159
EU was so potent. I mean, it was basically pretty the US is

471
00:37:31.199 --> 00:37:37.079
pretty dark conservative at the time,
even though Bill Clinton was president. Well

472
00:37:37.159 --> 00:37:42.599
so also, wait, I think
there's a connection here too of the when

473
00:37:42.639 --> 00:37:45.039
did the DS nine episode come out
again? Ninety six ninety six? So

474
00:37:45.119 --> 00:37:47.920
this, yeah, that's where you
said, pretty darn close five ninety six,

475
00:37:47.960 --> 00:37:52.840
Like these two things coming out at
the same time. Y'all probably might

476
00:37:52.880 --> 00:37:57.440
be able to aise this question better, But I've got like little little brain

477
00:37:57.519 --> 00:38:00.400
thoughts on no, do it?
What are your brains? Right? Yeah?

478
00:38:00.440 --> 00:38:02.199
Yeah, what are your brain thoughts? My brain thoughts? Well,

479
00:38:02.239 --> 00:38:06.239
I mean, I think we all
are pretty pretty aware of how we used

480
00:38:06.280 --> 00:38:09.760
to have a pretty strong union type
of structure within the United States that was

481
00:38:10.400 --> 00:38:17.119
systematically dismantled in various ways, and
then very much Reagan administration was a huge

482
00:38:17.159 --> 00:38:21.599
piece of that. And so when
you do have unions, what is left

483
00:38:21.639 --> 00:38:25.519
is something that does not have much
power and so there isn't real economic incentive.

484
00:38:25.599 --> 00:38:29.320
Part of that too, is the
shift of rather than having pensions,

485
00:38:29.360 --> 00:38:32.880
you're now shifting to a system of
four oh one ks and investments. So

486
00:38:32.920 --> 00:38:38.119
now any profit making from your company
is no longer going to employees, it

487
00:38:38.159 --> 00:38:44.199
goes to shareholders, so it is
now stockholding, which that so it's now

488
00:38:44.320 --> 00:38:47.639
even less about you're actually making profit
and it's more about the perception of your

489
00:38:47.679 --> 00:38:52.800
shareholders of your success. So a
lot of these different systems played into actually

490
00:38:53.519 --> 00:39:00.360
now de incentivize unions, as as
the kind of the push of what will

491
00:39:00.400 --> 00:39:02.639
get you those rights. So we've
gotten away from pensions, we've gotten into

492
00:39:02.800 --> 00:39:08.079
stockholding and with Reagan administration, and
then so you have the greed as good

493
00:39:08.119 --> 00:39:12.920
of the eighties and then you have
whatever is kind of left into the nineties

494
00:39:12.960 --> 00:39:15.519
and yeah, sure Bill Clinton was
president, but it's still neoliberalism, right,

495
00:39:16.039 --> 00:39:20.719
so I think you have to beat
up on anything. Yeah, remotely,

496
00:39:22.039 --> 00:39:24.599
right, So frankly, yeah,
and that's totally right. Yeah,

497
00:39:24.960 --> 00:39:28.719
your brain thoughts are my brain thoughts. And the other I mean, the

498
00:39:28.760 --> 00:39:36.159
other intuition I had was like,
especially with the DS nine episode while we

499
00:39:36.159 --> 00:39:39.920
were watching Emily and I watched it
together, like but separately on different coasts,

500
00:39:39.960 --> 00:39:42.880
but at the same time, so
that I could be like, who

501
00:39:42.960 --> 00:39:46.039
the fuck is that? Why is
wharf here banging that kind of stuff?

502
00:39:46.320 --> 00:39:51.159
I'll sound like your husband, Drew. It was like he was a far

503
00:39:51.239 --> 00:39:52.480
better guy than I could have been. But he is also like, yeah,

504
00:39:52.519 --> 00:39:55.920
one one breath monologue the entire plot
to me. So that was nice,

505
00:39:57.239 --> 00:40:00.679
that's true, But it really also
had vibe of like, oh,

506
00:40:01.320 --> 00:40:06.880
was there like a writer strike right
before this, because you know, like

507
00:40:07.000 --> 00:40:09.599
usual, and there wasn't. I
looked it up. It was like nineteen

508
00:40:09.639 --> 00:40:14.400
eighty eight and then like two thousand, so we're in the middle of like,

509
00:40:15.079 --> 00:40:17.159
we haven't talked about this for a
while, but I had thought like

510
00:40:17.719 --> 00:40:22.760
possibly that's when you get that kind
of stuff on TV, when writers are

511
00:40:22.800 --> 00:40:27.199
like organizing and then they're like,
we need other people to know about this,

512
00:40:27.239 --> 00:40:30.159
so we embedded in our materials.
Yeah, but it did, it

513
00:40:30.199 --> 00:40:35.280
didn't pan out. I also think
with this story, we we actually talked

514
00:40:35.280 --> 00:40:38.719
to the author and she was like
a working musician for a long time.

515
00:40:39.039 --> 00:40:44.840
I think it really shows in the
piece. Really. Yeah, And I

516
00:40:44.920 --> 00:40:47.280
just there's like a paragraph that I
really love where he's talking about how much

517
00:40:47.280 --> 00:40:52.400
they hate wedding playing weddings. Please
understand a wedding gig waste two days,

518
00:40:52.440 --> 00:40:54.400
three days with some species, plus
the time it takes to learn new music.

519
00:40:54.519 --> 00:40:59.039
You're treated like recording, told to
repeat impossible phrases and lenked and the

520
00:40:59.119 --> 00:41:01.559
usual processional in order to play a
final chord, as if the nerve rack

521
00:41:01.599 --> 00:41:06.800
Prince Sorry as the nerve racked Principles
arrive center stage. If they arrive,

522
00:41:07.360 --> 00:41:12.159
someone always brings a screaming neonate than
the reception where they inebriate themselves until no

523
00:41:12.199 --> 00:41:15.800
one hears a note. All this
for half pay and full satisfaction. You've

524
00:41:15.800 --> 00:41:23.599
helped perpetuate a species that is it's
it's a fire. I just feel like

525
00:41:23.639 --> 00:41:27.280
she's, uh, she's worked a
lot of gigs, you know, and

526
00:41:28.079 --> 00:41:31.880
they suck a lot of the time. Oh my god, it's way better

527
00:41:31.920 --> 00:41:35.760
to be a union musician than a
non union musician. So I mean,

528
00:41:36.679 --> 00:41:38.000
man, I'm so glad that you
brought that up, because now that I'm

529
00:41:38.119 --> 00:41:42.519
I mean, I've got the story
pulled up right here and there are You're

530
00:41:42.639 --> 00:41:52.079
absolutely right, there's so many wonderful
specificities that feel that it feels. Yeah,

531
00:41:52.280 --> 00:41:54.679
thank you for connecting those dots,
because it kind of feels more lived

532
00:41:54.719 --> 00:42:00.920
in as opposed to some like whenever
some just write science fiction in general,

533
00:42:01.480 --> 00:42:07.079
and I mean, I'm just thinking
about Star Trek stuff in general. Yes,

534
00:42:07.519 --> 00:42:12.960
always, Kenny is always alway about
Star Trek stuff in general. Yeah,

535
00:42:15.360 --> 00:42:20.599
I do think kind of the the
idea of like this timeframe. My

536
00:42:20.800 --> 00:42:23.639
sense of DS nine as a program
and like Star Trek in general, is

537
00:42:23.639 --> 00:42:30.800
that it is oriented toward uh progressivism, like you know, das since specifically

538
00:42:30.960 --> 00:42:36.679
is dealing in very interesting topics,
really getting down to the crux of things,

539
00:42:36.679 --> 00:42:39.840
which is why it is my favorite
of what I've seen so good,

540
00:42:40.159 --> 00:42:46.400
like actually deals in race, actually
deals in like really like digging into stuff.

541
00:42:46.159 --> 00:42:50.639
If if I can hop in here, you can say no, you

542
00:42:50.639 --> 00:42:57.760
can say no. Asthmen grouse,
I guess just to keep beating the exact

543
00:42:57.760 --> 00:43:02.000
same Drount that I beat almost every
week. The word is aesthetics, and

544
00:43:02.360 --> 00:43:13.119
we're talking so much about Star Wars
appropriating aesthetics to give the illusion of actually

545
00:43:13.119 --> 00:43:15.360
being about something, which, make
no mistake, it is about something.

546
00:43:15.400 --> 00:43:20.519
And also the tricky thing about not
being specific with your mission statement is that

547
00:43:20.559 --> 00:43:25.639
then you can have nefarious actors be
able to appropriate iconography for bad purposes,

548
00:43:25.960 --> 00:43:32.039
but as general as opposed to and
I mean even Star Trek can be guilty

549
00:43:32.039 --> 00:43:37.199
of this. You can see that
with like right wingers just being like,

550
00:43:37.639 --> 00:43:44.000
keep politics out of my Star Trek. But then you also look at a

551
00:43:44.039 --> 00:43:47.960
whole bunch of things and some of
the political statements that they make can be

552
00:43:49.039 --> 00:43:53.760
kind of general. This episode is
decidedly no pro union. Our characters are

553
00:43:53.760 --> 00:44:00.119
pro union, except for Wharf,
who crosses the picket line and I it

554
00:44:00.199 --> 00:44:06.320
was I I was just thinking about
yeah while I was in the car,

555
00:44:06.559 --> 00:44:14.599
because Wharf is like an extremely conservative
character who is like, you got to

556
00:44:14.639 --> 00:44:19.400
talk about kling On honor, honor, kling On values, traditional kling On

557
00:44:19.519 --> 00:44:23.519
values. And the dude crosses a
picket line to go get something at Quarks

558
00:44:24.280 --> 00:44:30.920
and then ends up getting a fight
with Julian and Miles, which ye rules

559
00:44:31.320 --> 00:44:40.000
it does I love it? Rickety
boys Yeah, Ricketty boys, Oh my

560
00:44:40.039 --> 00:44:45.639
god. Yeah O'Brien. O'Brien is
not only a hero but a union man.

561
00:44:47.039 --> 00:44:51.000
I love that, dude. I
mean he is an interesting character just

562
00:44:51.239 --> 00:44:53.519
at his core, right because everyone
else is like an officer and he is

563
00:44:53.599 --> 00:44:59.679
a chief engineer. Right, So
he's he actually presumably I never he's in

564
00:44:59.719 --> 00:45:02.079
next right, so I've never actually
really seen he and Wharf both the next

565
00:45:02.079 --> 00:45:07.360
Gen. So he ends up there. So he's not like very super I

566
00:45:07.400 --> 00:45:08.679
mean, I don't feel like a
next Gen. He's really driving a ton

567
00:45:08.719 --> 00:45:10.599
of plot. I mean I guess
they're sending in his wife, right,

568
00:45:10.719 --> 00:45:15.119
that's pretty much it. No.
Oh yeah, okay, so O'Brien.

569
00:45:15.840 --> 00:45:21.719
Here's what's cool about O'Brien. Uh
yeah, he won everything he gets.

570
00:45:21.840 --> 00:45:24.760
One a plot in Next Generation,
the episode The Wounded, which is a

571
00:45:25.079 --> 00:45:32.159
sick episode. Uh, it's about
O'Brien's former commanding officer going rogue and attacking

572
00:45:32.199 --> 00:45:36.960
Kardashi. Yeah yeah, yeah,
yeah, I do that. Well,

573
00:45:37.119 --> 00:45:44.280
yeah, it's exquisite. You meet
Goal not you you meet Mark Alimo as

574
00:45:44.400 --> 00:45:47.280
basically as the first Kardassian. He
sets the template for what Kardassians are,

575
00:45:47.559 --> 00:45:51.679
but he's not goal to cut uh. And then O'Brien like gets a couple

576
00:45:51.800 --> 00:45:54.880
based stories. Here's what's really important
for O'Brien's story though, and this is

577
00:45:54.960 --> 00:46:00.559
also going into why he's a union
man. O'Brien is an enlisted officer in

578
00:46:00.639 --> 00:46:07.320
Starfleet as opposed to he as opposed
to everyone else that you see who is

579
00:46:07.519 --> 00:46:12.199
who went to the academy. O'Brien
enlisted, so he is not, which

580
00:46:12.239 --> 00:46:21.800
then implies a whole bunch of what
the stratification cast cast stuff that was not

581
00:46:21.840 --> 00:46:27.159
pretty, that was not existing beforehand, but now it exists. And O'Brien

582
00:46:27.239 --> 00:46:30.519
is very much salt of the earth. He's just a guy who wanted a

583
00:46:30.599 --> 00:46:37.679
job. And shoot, I'm not
even sure I understand outside of just the

584
00:46:37.719 --> 00:46:43.079
basic our officers went to the academy, O'Brien worked his way up and now

585
00:46:43.119 --> 00:46:45.599
he is the chief engineer of D
Space nine. And then in this episode

586
00:46:45.679 --> 00:46:47.960
he talks about how to hang out
in the transporter room. He was like,

587
00:46:49.039 --> 00:46:54.360
that was boring. I love being
here. You're kidding me, Yeah,

588
00:46:54.480 --> 00:47:00.559
I think like that's something I like
about D you sign And also the

589
00:47:00.639 --> 00:47:06.239
extending universes, Like I will say, uh, Star Wars on screen is

590
00:47:06.400 --> 00:47:09.800
pretty problematic towards like non non humans, like we basically never hear them speak

591
00:47:09.800 --> 00:47:13.599
in their own words, like we
just hear people react to them, like

592
00:47:13.639 --> 00:47:17.599
Chewbacca is like the most uh like
you know, constant example, but like

593
00:47:17.679 --> 00:47:22.000
Java also right, like they're never
they're never speaking English, They're always speaking

594
00:47:22.000 --> 00:47:25.679
some other language. The same with
pretty much every droid except for C three

595
00:47:25.719 --> 00:47:30.079
PO and these books like you get
more into the motivations of stuff, like

596
00:47:30.119 --> 00:47:36.639
the Boffins are a major species kind
of maybe similar to the Cardassians in a

597
00:47:36.639 --> 00:47:38.960
way, like they're very schemy,
but uh, you know, the only

598
00:47:39.000 --> 00:47:42.840
reference we get to them and the
movies is just many Boffins died to bring

599
00:47:42.920 --> 00:47:45.400
us this information and then like in
the EU, they extrapolate out this whole

600
00:47:45.440 --> 00:47:47.440
culture, like, well what does
that mean? What does that mean if

601
00:47:47.440 --> 00:47:52.119
the species has a massive spy operation, Like what kind of people would they

602
00:47:52.119 --> 00:47:57.079
be? And it turns out that
they're all like extremely like backstabdy corporate raiders

603
00:47:57.639 --> 00:48:00.559
and that's that's why they have so
many spies. But I don't really know

604
00:48:00.599 --> 00:48:01.679
where I was going with this,
except saye, I do like the little

605
00:48:01.679 --> 00:48:07.039
touches of that in this episode,
like where you know, like Miles has

606
00:48:07.039 --> 00:48:09.199
to explain like what a union is
to Brom and then we also get like

607
00:48:09.639 --> 00:48:13.840
the whole there's more. I think
this is like one of the times when

608
00:48:13.880 --> 00:48:16.599
they really get into like for Engi
culture, Like there's other times too,

609
00:48:16.639 --> 00:48:21.079
but I like that they're getting to
the rules of acquisition and like why it's

610
00:48:21.360 --> 00:48:23.800
like anathema to be in a union, right, and he says like something

611
00:48:23.840 --> 00:48:27.719
like we want Yeah, we don't
want to stop being exploited, we want

612
00:48:27.760 --> 00:48:32.159
to become an exploiter or whatever,
which that which is very twenty twenty four.

613
00:48:32.719 --> 00:48:36.159
Well, yeah, for Angie,
don't want to find a way to

614
00:48:36.159 --> 00:48:39.559
stop the exploitation. We want to
become the exploiters. Which yeah, it's

615
00:48:39.639 --> 00:48:45.679
like very twid Yeah, it's exactly. It's like the temporarily embarrassed Millionaires piece.

616
00:48:45.840 --> 00:48:51.480
Right, It's like we because the
only way this works is in actual

617
00:48:51.559 --> 00:48:54.599
like community and collaboration, and that
actual like union is strong and if we

618
00:48:55.039 --> 00:49:00.119
are thinking, well I need to
be advancing beyond you or for what,

619
00:49:00.840 --> 00:49:06.480
then like it falls apart and it's
yeah, there's also really quick a fabulous

620
00:49:06.519 --> 00:49:08.880
sort of like there's different levels of
this. There's like the high capitalists of

621
00:49:08.960 --> 00:49:15.079
the FRANGI and then there's these like
different levels of Miles O'Brien being this kind

622
00:49:15.119 --> 00:49:20.079
of like more yeah like workers class, like fought my way up kind of

623
00:49:20.159 --> 00:49:23.800
understanding. And then there's the basher
right who was like mentioned in Union but

624
00:49:24.039 --> 00:49:28.119
was like, oh, I didn't
actually mean it because he's in a position

625
00:49:28.199 --> 00:49:30.320
of privilege right of just being like, well, like he's in like where

626
00:49:30.320 --> 00:49:32.119
I kind of live a lot of
the time where I'm just like, I

627
00:49:32.199 --> 00:49:37.280
don't know, I guess I'm cool. I don't know. So like he's

628
00:49:37.320 --> 00:49:38.800
just like, wait, what what
does this actually mean in terms of the

629
00:49:38.800 --> 00:49:42.719
sacrifice of the thing and the fighting
for the thing? And he didn't really

630
00:49:42.800 --> 00:49:45.199
think about it until now he's in
it too. It's a different levels there.

631
00:49:45.480 --> 00:49:50.159
Right on. Let's to go possibly
on a little bit of a tangent

632
00:49:50.159 --> 00:49:52.960
because Kelly, you said that you'd
never watched DS nine before that period,

633
00:49:53.800 --> 00:50:00.400
be honest, Now, okay,
what was your experience watching this episode without

634
00:50:00.400 --> 00:50:02.840
the rest of the context. I
mean you said that your understanding was that

635
00:50:02.920 --> 00:50:07.360
DS nine might be the goofiest of
them. Yeah, so I mean this

636
00:50:07.440 --> 00:50:14.119
is the reason in nineteen ninety six
I was twelve. I definitely was like

637
00:50:14.239 --> 00:50:19.079
clicking past it. This is a
remote control motion. For anybody that can't

638
00:50:19.119 --> 00:50:22.920
see or doesn't know what I'm doing, gen zers are out here, like

639
00:50:23.000 --> 00:50:27.760
what you're doing. You're clicking on
a phos probably on like TBS or something,

640
00:50:27.880 --> 00:50:31.360
and would see the like toaster fly
by for the opening credits, and

641
00:50:31.559 --> 00:50:36.960
then also just like looking at the
Ferengi and the technical or dream coat.

642
00:50:37.119 --> 00:50:39.800
I was probably like, oh,
this is the goofy one. So we

643
00:50:39.880 --> 00:50:44.719
had like the original series, which
is obviously incredibly serious and not funny at

644
00:50:44.719 --> 00:50:49.559
all, and then the Scared one, which is next generation, and then

645
00:50:49.559 --> 00:50:52.880
this one, which is like a
sitcom essentially because they're all in the same

646
00:50:52.920 --> 00:50:58.760
place, right, they don't go
anywhere. They're like, this is my

647
00:50:58.800 --> 00:51:00.760
assumption having seen it. No,
this is a goofy one. This is

648
00:51:00.800 --> 00:51:05.559
exactly what I want. Actually,
yes, yeah, that was my understanding.

649
00:51:05.880 --> 00:51:07.920
This still is the only one I've
seen because I watched it two days

650
00:51:07.920 --> 00:51:13.880
ago, but y'all have said that
it's much more than that, so I'm

651
00:51:13.880 --> 00:51:19.239
looking forward to watching the rest of
it. I mean, I know who

652
00:51:19.239 --> 00:51:23.880
Warf is. I knew that Miles
of Brian was in next generation, so

653
00:51:23.960 --> 00:51:27.280
those characters I was familiar with,
and then I was like, oh,

654
00:51:27.280 --> 00:51:31.679
the doctors from Battlestar Galactica. And
then it was very clear that like the

655
00:51:31.760 --> 00:51:36.960
lady with the spots on her face
was into wharf, but that was like

656
00:51:37.000 --> 00:51:39.639
a side plot, and really it
was the union thing, and it was

657
00:51:39.679 --> 00:51:45.679
sort of just like at any moment
I expected them to break into song and

658
00:51:45.719 --> 00:51:50.559
have it be just newsies in space, which this is so great, Kelly.

659
00:51:50.639 --> 00:51:53.360
But if he has everything right,
like teach, teach the young ones

660
00:51:53.360 --> 00:51:57.679
what a union is, and then
like it's a compromise we can all live

661
00:51:57.719 --> 00:52:00.360
with, Like I will pretend to
not give you the thing, and you'll

662
00:52:00.360 --> 00:52:04.679
pretend to break up the union and
then everything will be fine, Like we

663
00:52:04.719 --> 00:52:07.280
all get a little bit of what
we want. Kelly, this is so

664
00:52:07.360 --> 00:52:14.039
what my notes literally say, this
that passed everything what is going on?

665
00:52:15.360 --> 00:52:20.719
Yes, that's really fun though to
like go into it with like that kind

666
00:52:20.719 --> 00:52:23.159
of like I guess this is what
I'm watching and see what it feels like.

667
00:52:23.800 --> 00:52:27.719
Did you like it? Did you
too? If you like it?

668
00:52:27.800 --> 00:52:30.679
Did you like it? Did you
like it? Did you like it?

669
00:52:31.280 --> 00:52:37.800
She liked its it was goofy wasn't
I wasn't wrong. It's incredible. You

670
00:52:38.239 --> 00:52:43.280
know you're not wrong? Is like
really deeply invested in like what happened on

671
00:52:43.320 --> 00:52:46.440
the Alleghany River in Pennsylvania in like
nineteen twenty and I was like, okay,

672
00:52:47.519 --> 00:52:52.119
yeah, I mean DS nine Duskis
are on the side of labor,

673
00:52:52.159 --> 00:52:55.280
which made me really happy. I
didn't like that. I also will say

674
00:52:55.320 --> 00:53:01.760
that I would love to read what
is quarks are called something? Quarks is

675
00:53:01.800 --> 00:53:07.000
called quarks quarks Bar and Holding or
something right bar and Holding. Yeah,

676
00:53:07.280 --> 00:53:13.639
that is like LLC name. Yeah, because there's a lot of glove shadows

677
00:53:13.639 --> 00:53:16.480
in there. You could do a
Tales from Quarks Bar, you short story

678
00:53:16.519 --> 00:53:21.119
collection. There's one guy that just
sits there and doesn't say anything. Apparently

679
00:53:21.159 --> 00:53:25.119
his name is Morn like they do. They do a Glove Show episode about

680
00:53:25.159 --> 00:53:30.280
him. Yeah, yeah, great, which is an extraordinary episode. Uh.

681
00:53:35.920 --> 00:53:44.159
And then they're also talking about maybe
sort of not the worm of the

682
00:53:44.199 --> 00:53:49.119
space chairs. It's Normy. Yeah, yeah, it's exactly it's exactly what

683
00:53:49.159 --> 00:53:52.960
he got. Yeah, yeah,
he doesn't talk. But the business itself

684
00:53:52.039 --> 00:53:55.719
is called quarks Bar, Grill,
gaming House, and hollows Suite Arcade also

685
00:53:55.760 --> 00:54:00.880
known as Quarks Bar and Holding Company. Uh according to memory, which is

686
00:54:01.199 --> 00:54:07.480
outstanding incredible. Yeah, well,
I'm really just because you know, one

687
00:54:07.480 --> 00:54:14.920
good turn deserves another. I really
enjoyed this short story. Yea, I

688
00:54:15.320 --> 00:54:17.559
so Kathy. Sorry, I always
because we said her name wrong for like

689
00:54:17.599 --> 00:54:28.360
seven years when we were planning this
podcast. Kathy Kathy Tires Tires, so

690
00:54:28.360 --> 00:54:31.400
I don't feel as bad. But
she also wrote Truce at Bacha, which

691
00:54:31.440 --> 00:54:37.480
is the EU book that starts immediately
after Return of the Jedi. It's really

692
00:54:37.519 --> 00:54:39.440
good. It's one of my favorites. I really recommend. It's the first

693
00:54:39.559 --> 00:54:44.079
book that we read for the series. But I don't know where I was

694
00:54:44.079 --> 00:54:46.199
going with this except oh, it's
it's also really musical, like there's they

695
00:54:46.280 --> 00:54:52.559
encountered this alien species that communicates through
song, and so like there's a human

696
00:54:52.079 --> 00:54:55.920
that they've kidnapped. Not great,
but he's trying to like find a way

697
00:54:55.920 --> 00:54:59.960
to like write their language in a
way that humans can understand and basically using

698
00:55:00.079 --> 00:55:05.800
musical notes. Yeah, I think
she really has a good like she clearly

699
00:55:05.840 --> 00:55:09.800
has a soft spot for sort of
like exploring non human cultures in her writing

700
00:55:09.880 --> 00:55:14.719
in the EU, and I always
enjoy her stuff. Yeah, that's I

701
00:55:14.719 --> 00:55:19.559
think it's also incredible that she's writing
this from the first person of doik.

702
00:55:20.119 --> 00:55:22.920
Yeah, like I think that's really
that's pretty rare. Even in this book

703
00:55:22.960 --> 00:55:28.559
there's like three stories that are from
the first person, so you don't get

704
00:55:28.559 --> 00:55:30.920
the like he felt he felt,
its like and then they did this to

705
00:55:31.039 --> 00:55:35.480
me, and I think that that's
great. Maybe it was like also hearing

706
00:55:35.519 --> 00:55:38.440
it dramatized. The guy who was
reading it did a great job. But

707
00:55:38.559 --> 00:55:43.360
it also like the writing of it
to me was it was so very this

708
00:55:43.559 --> 00:55:49.960
is a specific character who is feeling
the way he feels, and like the

709
00:55:50.360 --> 00:55:57.079
language was really interesting. I really
I like to so hit or miss with

710
00:55:57.119 --> 00:56:02.159
the EU. But yeah, oh, Cath the great job. Yeah that's

711
00:56:02.159 --> 00:56:07.559
pretty it's pretty fabulous. And she
told us all this in certain information about

712
00:56:07.719 --> 00:56:10.880
how they basically contacted a bunch of
sci fi writers in the early nineties and

713
00:56:10.960 --> 00:56:15.559
rounded them all up and brought them
to like Skywalker Ranch to like pitch them

714
00:56:15.960 --> 00:56:20.920
on this big project of creating the
EU. This is like before anyone knew

715
00:56:20.920 --> 00:56:22.320
there was going to be sequels or
anything, and the idea was, I

716
00:56:22.320 --> 00:56:25.599
think, to sort of revive interest
in Star Wars before the I'm sorry,

717
00:56:25.599 --> 00:56:30.639
the prequels obviously, Yeah, but
yeah, to sort of revive interest in

718
00:56:30.679 --> 00:56:36.159
Star Wars before that, because if
George Lucas is anything, it's like a

719
00:56:36.199 --> 00:56:39.599
marketing genius. So here's what I
don't understand. Why didn't they do another

720
00:56:39.639 --> 00:56:45.760
holiday special? I don't I don't
get it. God, I don't know

721
00:56:45.800 --> 00:56:50.039
what the ROI was on that.
To be honest, the cooking budget really

722
00:56:50.039 --> 00:56:55.840
obliterated whatever profit they made. Yeah, my gosh, this that around there,

723
00:56:55.880 --> 00:57:01.519
like you know what books? Books
are? Books are to produce.

724
00:57:02.679 --> 00:57:07.760
There is also like a ton of
crossover between the EU writers and Star Trek

725
00:57:07.840 --> 00:57:14.000
novel writers. Oh yeah, we
just read, uh, we just did

726
00:57:14.119 --> 00:57:17.599
an episode about Tales from Jaba's Palace, which is a far inferior book to

727
00:57:17.639 --> 00:57:23.719
this one. There's a husband and
wife Canadian writing team that wrote a story

728
00:57:23.719 --> 00:57:29.000
in there that is really good and
they wrote, like doesn't Judith and Garfield

729
00:57:29.039 --> 00:57:32.559
reefs Stevens. Yes, yeah,
we got to get more, uh start

730
00:57:32.679 --> 00:57:37.079
people that worked on both Star Trek
and Star Wars as put that on the

731
00:57:37.079 --> 00:57:40.559
to do list Star Wars sorry,
no Star Wars only Star Wars. I

732
00:57:40.559 --> 00:57:45.679
mean, I'm trying sounds like sounds
like someone winner winner. I'm a winner,

733
00:57:45.760 --> 00:57:49.000
baby. I mean, let's not
let's not jump to the end of

734
00:57:49.039 --> 00:57:52.079
it. We still have a lot
of other stuff to do, as do

735
00:57:52.199 --> 00:58:00.719
we like what I don't A long
time ago start this week. I quoted

736
00:58:00.840 --> 00:58:06.239
a boat, I dated a geep, but none of them could work my

737
00:58:06.559 --> 00:58:15.440
drive into hyper space. The best
of both worlds kept me in the second

738
00:58:15.639 --> 00:58:24.400
place. Captain's log on a hollow
chron I wanted a song. I penned

739
00:58:24.400 --> 00:58:36.119
a song. Seventeen more minutes advise
in super high def aboard the USS Enterprise

740
00:58:36.840 --> 00:58:45.239
DT. Don't you take my walk
lighter and clip it? Don't you take

741
00:58:45.280 --> 00:58:50.079
my wretchored buddy and nip it?
If you spill the tea, I'm gonna

742
00:58:50.119 --> 00:58:55.639
sip it. I starship it,
yeah, I gotta I gotta tell you

743
00:58:55.679 --> 00:59:00.239
before we introduce the segment. I
starship it. Yeah. The first time

744
00:59:00.320 --> 00:59:07.360
that I have gotten your partner,
Joel uh, he wrote it. He

745
00:59:07.440 --> 00:59:12.800
wrote it. He wrote it.
The first time that I have gotten his

746
00:59:12.920 --> 00:59:20.280
wordplay of the USS Enterprise DT DTF. That's really funny. If you could

747
00:59:20.360 --> 00:59:23.199
just give him a backpack from me
today, that would be that be exceptional.

748
00:59:24.239 --> 00:59:28.159
Is that some good wordplay. I
gotta say, askin what are we

749
00:59:28.199 --> 00:59:34.840
doing right now? Okay, oh, our favorite game? I start favorite

750
00:59:34.920 --> 00:59:39.039
game, our favorite game yours and
mine, where we will name our favorite

751
00:59:39.199 --> 00:59:45.440
starships in this guy or vehicles of
any type from either either we had we

752
00:59:45.480 --> 00:59:49.280
had to make it vehicle of any
type because we like started doing this when

753
00:59:49.280 --> 00:59:55.360
we were doing like EU walks.
We were just like the horse like it

754
00:59:55.480 --> 01:00:05.159
was hard that or and our favorite
romantic ships. So again I would say,

755
01:00:05.159 --> 01:00:07.360
because there's four of us, and
because we sprung this fun year,

756
01:00:07.360 --> 01:00:09.400
so you didn't like you might not
have had time to plan. Ready,

757
01:00:09.760 --> 01:00:16.159
Oh you're ready? Okay, right, we like we'll steal it from each

758
01:00:16.159 --> 01:00:19.760
other, like I'll be like,
I'm so so ready with the ship,

759
01:00:19.800 --> 01:00:22.559
and then Kenny will say it first, I'm like you shirk. And also

760
01:00:22.599 --> 01:00:24.280
we try not to repeat. But
we will not hold those rules for you.

761
01:00:24.400 --> 01:00:30.199
We will not hold those You can
do whatever you want, your guess,

762
01:00:30.519 --> 01:00:32.199
but make no mistake, I will
hold it to Aspen. There there

763
01:00:32.280 --> 01:00:38.079
is the quorum that we must maintain
and also an enemyiate relationship. Apparently when

764
01:00:38.079 --> 01:00:42.280
it comes to this, we have
to maintain the kpad. Right, So

765
01:00:42.360 --> 01:00:47.519
yes, so yeah, we'll start
with we start with the ships. The

766
01:00:47.559 --> 01:00:52.199
ships like to go to the sky. I'll say for Massize like Cantina.

767
01:00:52.559 --> 01:00:58.360
My favorite ship is the junk ship
that they make into the casino obviously.

768
01:00:59.000 --> 01:01:02.400
Yeah, yeah, maybe the only
one. I guess. I'm a land

769
01:01:02.400 --> 01:01:07.960
speeder that as an unbolted droid on
it. That's a nice touch. Yes,

770
01:01:08.400 --> 01:01:10.880
that's good. I love that casino's
rad I don't know, it sounds

771
01:01:10.920 --> 01:01:15.400
neat. I would love to.
I would love to have a weird I

772
01:01:15.559 --> 01:01:20.480
just was like watching Instagram reels like
an elder millennial and there's this whole one

773
01:01:20.519 --> 01:01:24.519
about this outside of Sacramento that they
just like dragged out of the water because

774
01:01:24.519 --> 01:01:27.760
it was sinking and it's just like
sitting by the edge of the river.

775
01:01:27.800 --> 01:01:29.800
I'm like, yeah, I would
love that. I would love to have

776
01:01:29.840 --> 01:01:34.079
a casino on a on a land
paddle boat in Sacramento. That sounds great.

777
01:01:34.239 --> 01:01:38.559
Yeah, I would say if I
don't want to, like, we

778
01:01:38.639 --> 01:01:42.519
will someday get to DS nine.
But you know what, you break de

779
01:01:42.559 --> 01:01:47.679
corum, don't break decorum. Don't
do it. This is it. It's

780
01:01:47.679 --> 01:01:51.400
not me breaking to korm. It
would be if I say it now,

781
01:01:51.480 --> 01:01:55.840
I can't say it in the future
break How would I be breaking to quorum?

782
01:01:58.000 --> 01:02:06.360
Maybe? How how? I don't
know. It's I'm just okay,

783
01:02:06.440 --> 01:02:10.239
yeah, I'm just gonna do it. The Defiant, Yeah, well it's

784
01:02:09.840 --> 01:02:14.639
on this episode. Yes, yeah
it is. I don't breaking into Coorme.

785
01:02:14.679 --> 01:02:16.960
He's just being mean to Wait.
Is that the one where Wharf is

786
01:02:17.000 --> 01:02:21.360
like, I can't take it anymore. I'm going on the ship. That's

787
01:02:21.559 --> 01:02:25.360
the thing. Yeahn this outcome,
you know, and like and this botty

788
01:02:25.440 --> 01:02:30.119
lady is like, why do you
want to leave me googling? Oh yeah,

789
01:02:30.159 --> 01:02:34.159
that's pretty it is. It's like, by the time they get to

790
01:02:34.159 --> 01:02:37.159
this point in DS nine, there's
like this external threat. There's a whole

791
01:02:37.199 --> 01:02:40.440
thing with DS nine that they're like
what actually starts it. There's a whole

792
01:02:40.480 --> 01:02:45.639
thing. There's like a wormhole to
this other quadrant of the galaxy, and

793
01:02:45.679 --> 01:02:49.000
there's like another external threat, and
so they end up like getting this like

794
01:02:49.119 --> 01:02:52.960
Defiant class together that they had started
in the past. If the Boorg it's

795
01:02:52.000 --> 01:02:55.599
a whole thing. It's a whole
thing, and it's a great ship.

796
01:02:55.719 --> 01:02:59.559
It rules it is like, but
the thing is that because they're on this

797
01:02:59.679 --> 01:03:05.079
stat space station it's like the only
ship. I mean, there are other

798
01:03:05.199 --> 01:03:07.679
ships obviously, but it's like the
one that they're like time to take our

799
01:03:07.760 --> 01:03:14.119
ship's time to take that, like
the shuttle to Beijor. I guess,

800
01:03:14.199 --> 01:03:20.719
yeah, right, right, right
right, there's that. Okay, but

801
01:03:20.719 --> 01:03:22.719
I still got to pick a ship, and I'm going to pick deep Space

802
01:03:22.800 --> 01:03:31.480
nine of does that It very much
counts because the whole the whole thing.

803
01:03:31.800 --> 01:03:37.800
Not only that, because in the
pilot episode, ass Been Chief O'Brien created

804
01:03:37.800 --> 01:03:40.920
a static bubble that lightens the mass, so it could have to so it

805
01:03:40.960 --> 01:03:46.320
could use the station's thrusters to move
it to the wormhole. So Beijor Slash

806
01:03:46.360 --> 01:03:52.480
starkly could kind of colonize the area
before the Kardassians moved in and claimed it

807
01:03:52.559 --> 01:03:58.679
there thereby kind of colonizing safe space
travel into the Gamma quadrant. That's true,

808
01:03:58.880 --> 01:04:02.559
Kenny's can I amend my answer?
Actually, yes, you do whatever,

809
01:04:03.199 --> 01:04:09.880
Pop While you were talking, Here
we go, okay, here it

810
01:04:09.920 --> 01:04:15.519
goes. Here we go miles from
Ireland. In Ireland, if you're super

811
01:04:15.559 --> 01:04:20.599
hot, you get called a massive
ride. We ride vehicles. Miles O'Brien

812
01:04:20.679 --> 01:04:26.239
is my favorite vehicle. This is
why we this is why we invented this

813
01:04:26.320 --> 01:04:42.280
game. Yes, yes, yes, would still run that might That might

814
01:04:42.400 --> 01:04:45.320
genuinely be one of the best answers
that we've ever had. And I'm not

815
01:04:45.400 --> 01:04:51.760
just because I like you. That's
out standard. Uh, speaking of massive

816
01:04:51.960 --> 01:04:57.960
rides, We're going to the second
part of our game. Who do you

817
01:04:58.000 --> 01:05:04.400
want to see kiss out of these
two things that we've just witnessed only or

818
01:05:04.519 --> 01:05:10.079
the batteryses. Just these two things, just these two things. I know,

819
01:05:10.960 --> 01:05:13.599
I know, it's so I mean, I think it's got to be

820
01:05:13.639 --> 01:05:18.599
Miles and Sheer honestly, of course. But that's a classic answer. Yeah,

821
01:05:18.679 --> 01:05:25.239
that's it's a good one too.
Like they're having so many adventures in

822
01:05:25.239 --> 01:05:27.960
that hollow suite and you're gonna tell
me they're not gonna, you know,

823
01:05:28.760 --> 01:05:34.119
do some Viking rating and then just
like have a little kiss afterwards, Kelly,

824
01:05:34.239 --> 01:05:38.840
I got to say there. There
is an episode towards the end of

825
01:05:38.920 --> 01:05:44.360
d S nine where Miles has to
genuinely confront the fact that he likes spending

826
01:05:44.400 --> 01:05:47.800
more time with Bashir than he does
his own wife, and it is it

827
01:05:47.920 --> 01:05:53.920
is excellent. They are just like, I think we really love each other.

828
01:05:54.079 --> 01:05:59.960
What does that mean? On Kelly, you need to watch this show.

829
01:06:00.000 --> 01:06:01.880
No, y, you gotta watch
Emily's on it. You need to

830
01:06:01.920 --> 01:06:10.000
watch during my calendar, Grandeur may
change significantly. I really think this is

831
01:06:10.000 --> 01:06:12.440
the thing to tide you over to
tell and er a season two. Like,

832
01:06:12.480 --> 01:06:15.360
I think it's got I think it's
got the chops that you're looking for.

833
01:06:15.760 --> 01:06:19.320
It's got it all. It's a
little good. I can watch it

834
01:06:19.360 --> 01:06:23.119
all at once. I supposed to
like The Accolyte, which I have to

835
01:06:23.159 --> 01:06:25.840
wait a week in between, which
I'm having a really hard time with.

836
01:06:27.239 --> 01:06:30.320
Two thumbs up, two tombs up. Yes, yeah, I'm enjoying it.

837
01:06:30.400 --> 01:06:35.639
Yeah, I'm enjoying the Acolyte very
much as well. Kelly, you

838
01:06:35.719 --> 01:06:44.400
got a ship, shipping shipping ship, Kelly got ship Cisco and baseball is

839
01:06:44.400 --> 01:06:48.119
also another one. I think we
can all agree as awesome. Miles O'Brien.

840
01:06:48.400 --> 01:06:51.599
Yeah, as we climb, as
we ride, Miles O'Brien and his

841
01:06:51.760 --> 01:07:00.880
sist that face that was so funny. I genuinely was like, just it

842
01:07:01.000 --> 01:07:04.679
was such funny banter. I was
like just one of the I don't think

843
01:07:04.719 --> 01:07:12.039
God like be a doctor man.
It's the future and it's like met doctor

844
01:07:12.039 --> 01:07:16.840
Pemple, Popper of the Future this
year. Yeah, I uh, this

845
01:07:16.960 --> 01:07:19.840
is good. You know what I'm
going to go for. I'm going to

846
01:07:19.920 --> 01:07:28.519
go for like because I I appreciate
I appreciate a fiery, passionate relationship that

847
01:07:28.960 --> 01:07:30.719
like it's like, you know,
like at least we tried, like and

848
01:07:30.800 --> 01:07:34.079
we like went for it, and
even though it failed, like it's better

849
01:07:34.119 --> 01:07:38.800
than not like feeling love at all. So I'm going for Lady Valerian and

850
01:07:38.880 --> 01:07:44.480
Dwop. Oh my gosh, that's
so true. Yeah. Yeah, it

851
01:07:45.119 --> 01:07:47.960
was a real short and tempetuous romance, right, but like I like to

852
01:07:47.960 --> 01:07:53.320
see them kiss because I'm because how
do we do it? Profoundly curious about

853
01:07:53.360 --> 01:07:56.719
how that happened in the story.
I was like, where do all the

854
01:07:56.760 --> 01:08:00.039
tusks go? Huh? I'd also
like to know this, Yeah, really

855
01:08:00.079 --> 01:08:05.760
good question. That dude is just
like like just like doing little gossips with

856
01:08:05.840 --> 01:08:14.199
himself the whole time. He's just
like, why the guy's so I would

857
01:08:14.199 --> 01:08:18.039
ship him in his fizz, but
they already have a you can oh,

858
01:08:18.079 --> 01:08:21.319
you can choose that, you can
choose that. I'm glad that he like

859
01:08:21.840 --> 01:08:26.119
carried that thing out of there with
area scratch, despite the fact that it

860
01:08:26.159 --> 01:08:31.079
had no case. That's true love
right there, real drama. Yeah yeah,

861
01:08:31.239 --> 01:08:33.600
if you want that to be a
ship, we should go for it.

862
01:08:33.720 --> 01:08:36.800
A ship should be something that doesn't
exist. You can, you can

863
01:08:36.880 --> 01:08:41.279
even do people to are together.
We try to, you're right, but

864
01:08:41.319 --> 01:08:47.039
we try to relax the what about
I mean, we we have a lot

865
01:08:47.079 --> 01:08:55.520
of in both of these massive foreheads. Doig and Rom could get together and

866
01:08:55.600 --> 01:09:00.479
bond? We never thought about a
cross ship. No, look at for

867
01:09:00.560 --> 01:09:05.239
each other. They've got They're so
shiny, they can trade like I both

868
01:09:05.319 --> 01:09:13.760
work in the bar. Yeah yeah, they're both incredibly competent but underestimated.

869
01:09:14.279 --> 01:09:19.359
Yeah. Rom mobilizes the union and
Deuk clearly has the head for all of

870
01:09:19.399 --> 01:09:24.880
this stuff, but figuring Don is
the one that is in charge, and

871
01:09:24.920 --> 01:09:29.960
so it has to play a pun
intended second fiddle or I guess second fizz,

872
01:09:30.359 --> 01:09:33.560
second fizz. Yeah yeah, they
can bond over that too. Yeah,

873
01:09:33.600 --> 01:09:36.960
okay, that's my ship. I
also feel like exist in Star and

874
01:09:38.000 --> 01:09:43.640
Star Trek. I guess yes,
yeah, Well, I mean I jazz

875
01:09:43.680 --> 01:09:49.119
solid deck. Yeah yeah, jazz
very much does Jazz does jazz, but

876
01:09:49.159 --> 01:09:53.600
there's like I'm trying to think of
musical anyway, yes, yes, Kenny,

877
01:09:53.840 --> 01:09:58.520
your choice. I'm so shocked that
I am the one that is doing

878
01:09:58.600 --> 01:10:03.079
this one wharf and Jazzy attacks.
Listen, listen. Is that this body

879
01:10:03.119 --> 01:10:08.520
lady? Yeah, that's the spoty
lady cool and her and her immortal parasite.

880
01:10:08.720 --> 01:10:13.640
Yeah, to be fair, it's
a polycol it is. It is

881
01:10:13.680 --> 01:10:17.880
a poly There's there's this like great
there's this like great meme about d S

882
01:10:18.039 --> 01:10:25.159
nine that's like it's this like show
about space Jesus, a twink and his

883
01:10:25.279 --> 01:10:30.239
lizard boyfriend. Because but Hier also
has this thing with a Cardassian. Yeah,

884
01:10:30.199 --> 01:10:34.520
lighting with everybody everyone, It's true. And it's like a transworm,

885
01:10:35.119 --> 01:10:42.880
a goop with trauma. Like that's
a union man. It's pretty everything.

886
01:10:43.079 --> 01:10:46.640
Yeah, yeah, it's got everything. So no, but Jensia and Warfire,

887
01:10:47.119 --> 01:10:53.079
they are like a little bit of
an otpuh. But I think the

888
01:10:53.159 --> 01:10:57.279
time, I think the time for
joviality is over. As we go back

889
01:10:57.279 --> 01:11:00.920
to the central conceit of our podcast, which is is a binary. It

890
01:11:01.000 --> 01:11:05.920
is either good or bad. There
is nothing in between. And so we

891
01:11:06.000 --> 01:11:12.479
put a numerical ranking on both of
these things. Again, the things that

892
01:11:12.520 --> 01:11:16.359
we are ranking from one to ten
is star Trek Deep Space nine Bar Association

893
01:11:16.640 --> 01:11:26.199
Season four versus We Don't Do Weddings
by Kaffee Tires from Star Wars Tales of

894
01:11:26.279 --> 01:11:30.640
the Most Icily Canteina Kenny, Do
you want to go first? Just to

895
01:11:30.720 --> 01:11:35.239
like I will go first? Absolutely, Asthen what a great call? What

896
01:11:35.720 --> 01:11:41.439
call? Yeah, we believe the
pressure and I'm going to do we don't

897
01:11:41.479 --> 01:11:45.000
do Weddings first, and I am
going to get that a robust seven.

898
01:11:46.359 --> 01:11:53.359
Hyjinks abound in it. It's not
too terribly deep. It's fun. It's

899
01:11:53.720 --> 01:12:00.840
light. Yeah, there's not too
much prequelitis, which is pretty good because

900
01:12:01.239 --> 01:12:05.800
because I mean that's that's rampant and
Star Wars. It's pretty frequel. It's

901
01:12:05.800 --> 01:12:10.840
pure, pure on cut. Yeah
it is. It's pure. It's a

902
01:12:10.880 --> 01:12:17.199
seven. I give it a seven. Seven, Okay, I would say

903
01:12:17.479 --> 01:12:24.520
that I'm gonna give it. Probably
it's funny because since I did listen to

904
01:12:24.560 --> 01:12:26.760
it, I got a little bit
more of like, you know, the

905
01:12:26.880 --> 01:12:30.119
music was playing in the background and
there was like sound effects and stuff.

906
01:12:30.119 --> 01:12:31.319
I got like the radio drama effect
to it. So it might be like

907
01:12:31.520 --> 01:12:33.640
even pulled it up a little bit
more for me because felt like I was

908
01:12:33.680 --> 01:12:36.479
having a great time, So maybe
I'm gonna pull it to like a seven

909
01:12:36.479 --> 01:12:43.800
point four yeahularah yeah, at a
certain point you're like, we got it.

910
01:12:43.800 --> 01:12:45.960
We have to be granular. Nothing
could like fit on our regular scale

911
01:12:45.960 --> 01:12:49.000
anymore. For all the same reasons
you said, I thought it was really

912
01:12:49.000 --> 01:12:51.439
fun, and then I had that
extra special bit of just like, oh,

913
01:12:51.479 --> 01:13:00.159
I feel like I'm in on the
action. What about y'all? Yeah,

914
01:13:00.239 --> 01:13:05.720
I think we usually give our ratings
out of twelve parsex, but so

915
01:13:05.800 --> 01:13:09.960
I'm I'm trying to think of what
I give. I mean, I feel

916
01:13:09.960 --> 01:13:13.079
like this is like a solid It's
like a B plus for me. Yeah,

917
01:13:13.520 --> 01:13:15.560
I enjoy it very much. I
think that's probably about seven point five

918
01:13:15.600 --> 01:13:23.560
maybe, Yeah, very solid.
Hours enjoy Kathy's writing. And I wish

919
01:13:23.640 --> 01:13:26.840
that there's a whole like some like
a hot spin off novel about this band

920
01:13:26.960 --> 01:13:30.279
getting into high jinks all over the
galaxy. Frankly, I would adore it

921
01:13:31.119 --> 01:13:35.439
to see some cross dressing bith that
would be great. Get out of little

922
01:13:35.439 --> 01:13:43.920
Steve Jobs uniform and you know normalware. Yeah, yeah, yeah, I'm

923
01:13:43.920 --> 01:13:45.920
going to agree. I would give
it somewhere between a seven and a seven

924
01:13:45.960 --> 01:13:51.399
point five. Yeah, seven point
three five seven point three five. Yeah,

925
01:13:51.720 --> 01:13:56.760
because the writing is great. We've
read a lot of Star Wars novels

926
01:13:56.760 --> 01:14:04.039
and short stories and what body.
But yeah, I love Kathy. I

927
01:14:04.079 --> 01:14:08.359
think her writing is incredible. I
do love that it's first person. It

928
01:14:08.439 --> 01:14:13.000
seems so rare, but to really
get the like interior life of this one

929
01:14:13.079 --> 01:14:17.680
random character is so good. Like
there's this one part where it's pretty early

930
01:14:17.720 --> 01:14:24.640
on and Doyke is looking around at
all the different bith and he says our

931
01:14:24.720 --> 01:14:29.399
band leader Figurri and Don was wearily
swabbing his clue horn. There's a joke

932
01:14:29.439 --> 01:14:31.159
in there, but you'd have to
speak Bithian to get it, which I

933
01:14:31.239 --> 01:14:33.920
just think is so good, Like
you wouldn't get that if it wasn't first

934
01:14:33.920 --> 01:14:38.720
person. It's yeah, you know, there's lines like another Long Night a

935
01:14:38.840 --> 01:14:43.880
Joba's Palace, and it has sort
of a yeah, twenties or thirties vibe

936
01:14:43.920 --> 01:14:50.800
to it. Yeah, so good
with the hijinks and experienced the like yeah

937
01:14:50.840 --> 01:14:55.600
show stuff without it being annoying.
You know, it's just cute, so

938
01:14:56.640 --> 01:15:00.600
perfect. Oh love it. We're
on the same page. That's always fun.

939
01:15:00.760 --> 01:15:02.640
Sometimes we'll be like we'll talk about
episode, We'll talk about an episode

940
01:15:02.840 --> 01:15:06.720
for an hour and I'll be like, I give this an A and can

941
01:15:06.800 --> 01:15:10.399
I be like, I actually give
it a free I fucking hated it and

942
01:15:10.439 --> 01:15:14.960
I was like, gay, the
more you talk about it, the worse

943
01:15:15.000 --> 01:15:20.479
it gets. Or is he just
hides the feelings from I mean, that's

944
01:15:20.520 --> 01:15:28.479
neither here nor there. That's something
I work with my therapist. I think

945
01:15:29.039 --> 01:15:33.199
that that's like, is charming about
the EUS is essentially like professional fan fiction,

946
01:15:33.399 --> 01:15:38.079
and so the best fan fiction I
feel like often you know, it's

947
01:15:38.119 --> 01:15:41.840
like taps into stuff that's like really
great and deep ye maybe even like the

948
01:15:41.880 --> 01:15:45.079
original authors didn't get and the worst
of it is really fucking bad. But

949
01:15:45.359 --> 01:15:48.680
you know, you have to have
both to have a complete society. I

950
01:15:48.680 --> 01:15:55.119
guess so speaking of having a complete
society, we do have to rate the

951
01:15:55.239 --> 01:15:59.720
other half of this podcast from Star
Trek d Space Night Bar Association. I

952
01:15:59.760 --> 01:16:05.920
will start us up. I'm gonna
give it on eight point five. I

953
01:16:06.000 --> 01:16:12.439
The Fringy episodes are usually much more
fun and light than this, and this

954
01:16:12.560 --> 01:16:16.000
episode, Make No Mistake was very
fun, but it had a surprising amount

955
01:16:16.039 --> 01:16:20.960
of substance that was unexpected. It
might also just be in the juxtaposition between

956
01:16:21.000 --> 01:16:27.319
this and Star Trek the original series, which I adore Star Trek the original

957
01:16:27.319 --> 01:16:30.640
series. And also I felt no
normal person of being like, I cannot

958
01:16:30.640 --> 01:16:34.560
watch this. It is hard to
get into those settings as opposed to Deep

959
01:16:34.560 --> 01:16:39.039
Space nine, where I feel like
you don't have to necessarily teach someone how

960
01:16:39.079 --> 01:16:43.720
to watch it. You can watch
it and get something. Except for Kelly,

961
01:16:44.119 --> 01:16:51.000
she up right up like a duck
to water. Truly. Yeah,

962
01:16:50.399 --> 01:16:56.199
I really, really really like this
episode. I think it's got a lot

963
01:16:56.239 --> 01:17:03.159
of stuff to say. I think
that it is optimistic without necessarily being naive

964
01:17:03.319 --> 01:17:09.479
about how unions work. Sure they
caught some corners, but at the same

965
01:17:09.560 --> 01:17:14.840
time they are actual stakes. Lives
are on the line, because that's what

966
01:17:15.520 --> 01:17:19.560
happens whenever you are fighting for something
that is as meaningful as workers' rights.

967
01:17:20.439 --> 01:17:26.680
And I adore that. I love
that the franky Commerce Authority gets brought in

968
01:17:26.960 --> 01:17:32.600
as muscle because the government won.
It would be one thing for Quark just

969
01:17:32.640 --> 01:17:35.119
to be like no, no unions, but it's another thing to be like

970
01:17:35.199 --> 01:17:40.640
no, the government is a tool
of business and they want to make a

971
01:17:40.640 --> 01:17:44.399
statement. Uh. Yeah, I
love this episode. And also I love

972
01:17:44.439 --> 01:17:51.039
WARF eight point five. You just
like almost made me cry goods true.

973
01:17:51.239 --> 01:17:58.720
It is true. Yeah, I
have to say this one. I there's

974
01:17:58.720 --> 01:18:00.600
a lot of factors on this.
I love dance, it's so funny.

975
01:18:00.640 --> 01:18:03.600
I am a Star Wars person.
I love Daigne so much it like consumes

976
01:18:03.680 --> 01:18:14.119
me. It's a great totality one. I also love so that you just

977
01:18:14.159 --> 01:18:16.319
said, I know, oh god, I'm so oh god. I'm gonna

978
01:18:16.399 --> 01:18:19.359
get it even higher. I'm gonna
give like an eight Wait, what did

979
01:18:19.359 --> 01:18:24.199
you get me a point five?
Is that you said, yeah, higher

980
01:18:24.239 --> 01:18:26.880
rank? I meant I thought you
said seven point five. No, I'm

981
01:18:26.880 --> 01:18:29.239
gonna give it higher than that.
I'm going to give it I'm gonna like

982
01:18:29.359 --> 01:18:30.840
beat you and say an l a
point we'll do to eight point seven.

983
01:18:31.119 --> 01:18:39.520
Eight point seven point seven rules.
Love this so y'all don't have to like

984
01:18:39.560 --> 01:18:45.079
it as much. I'm just obsessed
with everyone. Also, rom gets like

985
01:18:45.159 --> 01:18:48.960
some surprising depth. Well that rounds
out his character and sets him up for

986
01:18:49.079 --> 01:18:55.560
even more stuff because he is so
much a joke character. Yeah, but

987
01:18:55.600 --> 01:18:59.680
that he's just like, I think
I have more to offer than just being

988
01:18:59.720 --> 01:19:02.880
your other. As much as I
love you, it's hard not to see

989
01:19:02.920 --> 01:19:05.720
it in the context of the greater
show which no one certainly has to do

990
01:19:05.760 --> 01:19:09.840
if they haven't seen it. But
yeah, Ramen like is like you know,

991
01:19:09.920 --> 01:19:12.479
it's like, you know, goes
throughout like brother and kind of just

992
01:19:12.520 --> 01:19:15.439
like old Boom and you're like you
like it but on that Yeah, and

993
01:19:15.479 --> 01:19:23.079
then he like spoiler, he becomes
like the leader of the frank like he's

994
01:19:23.159 --> 01:19:29.199
like he was. This is like
the moment and it is does mean a

995
01:19:29.199 --> 01:19:32.079
lot. So anyway, that's why
I'm like so into this. Yeah,

996
01:19:32.560 --> 01:19:38.920
hot up, speaking of the moment
delusions of grandeur, folks, what what

997
01:19:38.960 --> 01:19:45.640
do you rank this episode? You're
not gonna hurt our feelings, no fact,

998
01:19:45.840 --> 01:19:50.600
Star Wars wines, I'll feel great. Yeah, I think it's I

999
01:19:50.600 --> 01:19:54.319
think for me, it's like maybe
an A minus. Like I do like

1000
01:19:54.359 --> 01:19:58.960
this episode a lot. I think
I watched it the first time in like

1001
01:19:59.159 --> 01:20:00.880
you know, in a you know, sort of a binge with like a

1002
01:20:00.880 --> 01:20:04.680
bunch of other episodes, and I
think that's how I'd prefer to watch it,

1003
01:20:04.720 --> 01:20:08.560
maybe, like I don't like stand
alone. It's like a little weaker

1004
01:20:08.640 --> 01:20:11.720
than I remembered, but I still
really enjoyed it. Obviously, many great

1005
01:20:11.760 --> 01:20:17.920
lines and memesh love the like war
for gen Zia tension, as well as

1006
01:20:18.000 --> 01:20:25.039
the Miles the Sheer tension. Yeah, I think I think I miss like

1007
01:20:25.159 --> 01:20:29.720
Kira and a few other characters,
like it feels oh my gosh, sorry,

1008
01:20:29.840 --> 01:20:32.920
who's the the cardassian Taylor's name?
Sorry, I'm creatting his name your

1009
01:20:33.000 --> 01:20:38.039
boyfriend? Thank you? Yes,
Garrett, I feel it would be all

1010
01:20:38.079 --> 01:20:41.439
over this in real like you know, I just like you'd be like scheming

1011
01:20:41.479 --> 01:20:43.600
and dreaming like up in this episode, and I would love to see a

1012
01:20:43.600 --> 01:20:46.880
little bit more of that. But
yeah, definitely pro union and uh and

1013
01:20:47.039 --> 01:20:50.880
like fun. I don't know it
is. It's like very goofy, but

1014
01:20:50.960 --> 01:20:54.920
it has like heart to it.
So yeah, I don't know. Would

1015
01:20:54.920 --> 01:20:59.520
a minus on this scale be like
an eight? Yeah, like I don't

1016
01:20:59.520 --> 01:21:01.520
know a little more than an eight, less than a nine somewhere there.

1017
01:21:02.039 --> 01:21:06.640
Yeah, yeah, I'm gonna put
eight point zero one. We're great with

1018
01:21:06.760 --> 01:21:15.680
numbers, Yeah, real strength along
with space battles. Yeah, I I

1019
01:21:15.720 --> 01:21:18.079
feel so bad. I don't feel
bad. No, don't feel bad.

1020
01:21:18.680 --> 01:21:21.479
So way, if I have a
couple follow up questions that will determine my

1021
01:21:21.560 --> 01:21:28.039
level of guilt, does this go? So we're ranking them against each other

1022
01:21:28.159 --> 01:21:31.680
the most sicely canteena story end this
episode DS nine or is it like within

1023
01:21:31.760 --> 01:21:34.880
all of Star Trek? Where does
this DS nine episode falling for me?

1024
01:21:35.680 --> 01:21:40.760
Or you know what I mean,
Kelly, follow your heart, seriously,

1025
01:21:40.960 --> 01:21:45.479
follow your heart. Just follow your
heart. There is no wrong answer.

1026
01:21:45.239 --> 01:21:48.279
It's more that's not true. It's
a little like I try to think of

1027
01:21:48.279 --> 01:21:53.479
them independently, like independent, like
what is the quality of this episode as

1028
01:21:53.520 --> 01:21:58.199
an episode? Obviously there's context that
you might have around it for things,

1029
01:21:58.239 --> 01:22:00.119
but it's not necessarily If you did
want one to one you could do.

1030
01:22:00.720 --> 01:22:03.359
But I think about it, I'm
just like, independently, what is this?

1031
01:22:03.520 --> 01:22:06.239
Independently? What is the Star Wars? Yeah? So okay, and

1032
01:22:08.000 --> 01:22:14.920
also sorry, I'm also at the
mindset that because there's so much toxic discourse

1033
01:22:14.920 --> 01:22:17.039
at being like I want objective criticism. I want objective criticism, and I'm

1034
01:22:17.079 --> 01:22:21.640
like, no, that's not possible. Art is inherently subjective because we bring

1035
01:22:21.640 --> 01:22:26.479
our own experiences to it, and
so you know, you like what you

1036
01:22:26.680 --> 01:22:29.239
like and you feel the way that
you feel, and you know, if

1037
01:22:29.279 --> 01:22:31.000
your favorite Star Wars movie is the
Rise of Skywalker, I want to give

1038
01:22:31.039 --> 01:22:34.399
you a how can it be?
Like? Thank you? Right? I

1039
01:22:34.439 --> 01:22:38.840
don't want to live in that world
either, but we must, we must,

1040
01:22:39.199 --> 01:22:45.479
we must strive for empathy and so
good and forgetting. That's like the

1041
01:22:45.640 --> 01:22:47.800
that's the beauty of the Rise of
Skywalker. It's like it's like it delivered

1042
01:22:47.800 --> 01:22:51.279
everything that those like Sheds wanted and
they all hate it still, they all

1043
01:22:51.319 --> 01:22:55.840
still think it's too ook, and
that's kind of beautiful in a way.

1044
01:22:56.880 --> 01:23:00.760
It does feel like justice. Okay. Yeah, I love the union aspects

1045
01:23:00.960 --> 01:23:06.359
of this episode of DS nine.
I love Miles O'Brien. I really liked

1046
01:23:06.600 --> 01:23:11.439
the Ferengis and getting to know them
at all because I hadn't known them before.

1047
01:23:12.960 --> 01:23:16.800
But it still was very goofy to
me, Like it was still a

1048
01:23:16.800 --> 01:23:24.399
goofball situation. So I think I
would give it a six point seven great

1049
01:23:25.359 --> 01:23:29.359
like it, yeah, because you
goes even though we're not comparing, it's

1050
01:23:29.439 --> 01:23:32.640
it's goofy, Kelly, You're so
good, not in the same way as

1051
01:23:32.680 --> 01:23:39.159
the most icely Cantino one. It's
goofy, but not danger It didn't feel

1052
01:23:39.199 --> 01:23:41.880
as dangerous to me. I think. I just there was a lot of

1053
01:23:41.920 --> 01:23:45.960
context that I needed in order to
deeply love this episode of DS nine,

1054
01:23:45.000 --> 01:23:50.039
and I actually realized while we were
talking that one of the things that contributes

1055
01:23:50.079 --> 01:23:55.720
to me having not watched it is
that I took a lot of philosophy classes

1056
01:23:56.359 --> 01:24:00.680
where teachers are trying to make us
watch episodes of DS nine. Oh really,

1057
01:24:00.479 --> 01:24:05.239
that's amazing. Yeah, And like
the last one that I remember is

1058
01:24:05.319 --> 01:24:10.000
we they would make us watch it
in class so you could just not watch,

1059
01:24:10.600 --> 01:24:12.840
which is probably what happened to me, which is why I had no

1060
01:24:12.920 --> 01:24:15.039
memory of the show. And like
the last one I watched, like one

1061
01:24:15.119 --> 01:24:18.720
of the professors looked kind of adjacent
to one of the characters who was trying

1062
01:24:18.720 --> 01:24:21.159
to sleep with like a woman who
was much younger than him, and I

1063
01:24:21.199 --> 01:24:25.439
was like, I'm out, like
I can't. You can't use like ethics

1064
01:24:25.479 --> 01:24:29.800
and morality and entertainment in this way. I don't like it, profoundly don't

1065
01:24:29.840 --> 01:24:35.359
like it. And so I think
that there's the important union stuff is like

1066
01:24:35.439 --> 01:24:42.920
embedded in there, But when it's
presented as nonsense a little bit, then

1067
01:24:42.960 --> 01:24:45.119
I then I kind of get a
little bit upset. So I would rather

1068
01:24:45.239 --> 01:24:50.199
have them do a union episode and
have it be more serious than have them

1069
01:24:50.199 --> 01:24:55.159
do a union episode and have it
be a goofball episode. Goofballs. It's

1070
01:24:55.199 --> 01:24:58.720
okay, Kayla, You're still our
friends. So I can't do math really

1071
01:24:58.720 --> 01:25:00.079
fast in my head. So this
might in Star Wars wins, so I

1072
01:25:00.159 --> 01:25:03.760
think I win no matter what.
Uh No, actually Star Trek wins the

1073
01:25:03.840 --> 01:25:13.600
week. It's okay, we try
Gil. We don't do weddings has a

1074
01:25:13.640 --> 01:25:19.479
paltry seven point three one two five
versus Bar Association's seven point ninety seven seven

1075
01:25:20.000 --> 01:25:29.680
five, although Kelly's analysis rules and
I support it. That's true. That's

1076
01:25:29.680 --> 01:25:32.600
great, that's great. Have we
have we missed anything else about these two

1077
01:25:32.640 --> 01:25:41.199
properties? I don't know. Yeah, yeah, I do. Just want

1078
01:25:41.199 --> 01:25:44.079
to call it real quick, and
that's just nine episode because I feel like

1079
01:25:44.079 --> 01:25:47.279
we didn't talk about it. I
just want to say the Cisco move of

1080
01:25:47.319 --> 01:25:51.079
being like, hey, this strike
needs to end. By the way,

1081
01:25:51.479 --> 01:25:58.319
you don't even pay rent. Oh
yeah, it was like or so powerful,

1082
01:25:58.600 --> 01:26:01.159
he's so cool anyway, I just
wanted to call that out as a

1083
01:26:01.239 --> 01:26:06.000
leg Oh there's like a different powers
sources that can like mess with this,

1084
01:26:06.159 --> 01:26:14.319
uh this dynamic. It's great about
uh speaking speaking of power sources, Emily

1085
01:26:14.479 --> 01:26:20.159
Kelly, thank you so much for
coming from the show. This was this

1086
01:26:20.399 --> 01:26:25.520
was uh so much fun. Thank
you, thank you, thank you so

1087
01:26:25.600 --> 01:26:29.520
much for listeners of Track Wars that
might not be familiar with delusions of grandeur?

1088
01:26:30.520 --> 01:26:32.199
Where can they find you? What
else would you like to plug?

1089
01:26:32.319 --> 01:26:39.359
Et cetera. Yeah, oh well
you can find us, I think on

1090
01:26:39.439 --> 01:26:44.560
most podcasters these days, Uh,
your podcaster of choice. As we're saying

1091
01:26:44.560 --> 01:26:47.800
this is I don't know what we
are, just hearing a new book.

1092
01:26:47.840 --> 01:26:55.439
Patreon. We do Patreon, Yeah, that's true. Give them money for

1093
01:26:55.520 --> 01:27:01.159
only seven American dollars capitalism, Yeah, give them some latinum for seven American

1094
01:27:01.199 --> 01:27:04.920
dollars a month. You two can
vote on what our future choices from the

1095
01:27:05.039 --> 01:27:10.800
vast library of the Star Wars Extended
universe will be, and join our our

1096
01:27:10.840 --> 01:27:15.680
book chat, which is very lively
and fun. And I think other than

1097
01:27:15.720 --> 01:27:21.479
that, we're starting we're about to
start the X Wing book Rogue Squadron tomorrow.

1098
01:27:23.439 --> 01:27:27.119
So it's you, like wedgeend Chillis
and his beautiful eyebrows, you can

1099
01:27:27.199 --> 01:27:32.319
join us on this journey, Kenny
shared us. I truly do. Yes.

1100
01:27:32.439 --> 01:27:38.159
Yeah, speaking at patreons, I
would be remiss to not mention our

1101
01:27:38.239 --> 01:27:41.560
fabulous patrons, which you can find
at patreon dot com. Slash Truck Wars

1102
01:27:41.560 --> 01:27:44.800
Pod, where for five dollars a
month you can get early versions of our

1103
01:27:44.840 --> 01:27:48.079
episodes, extended versions of our episodes, and chat with us, like in

1104
01:27:48.119 --> 01:27:53.880
the case of our friend Arizona Mark, who, in regards to our extended

1105
01:27:53.920 --> 01:27:57.840
episode of Downfall of Adroid versus Specter
of the Gun for our Dear Evan Hansen

1106
01:27:58.000 --> 01:28:02.279
talk, Arizona Mark said, also, I ugly cry anytime I listened to

1107
01:28:02.359 --> 01:28:05.039
a few of the songs from Dear
Evan Hanson. They hit me way too

1108
01:28:05.039 --> 01:28:10.039
deeply. This is in regards to
me watching the Dear Evan Hanson movie and

1109
01:28:10.079 --> 01:28:15.520
having to pull over and ugly cry
aggressively into my steering wheel. That is

1110
01:28:15.840 --> 01:28:19.680
not a bit so thank you so
much to Mark for that, and I

1111
01:28:19.800 --> 01:28:24.760
like that newsies came up today as
well. Like the musicals tie into all

1112
01:28:24.800 --> 01:28:29.560
of this. We love music excellent, We love musicals. We do love

1113
01:28:29.640 --> 01:28:33.520
musicals, and we love our patrons
such as Timbo De Sosa and will Lee

1114
01:28:33.520 --> 01:28:38.319
Brice, Love, Heidi Rogers,
Kevin Miller, Arizona Mark, Austin Aaron

1115
01:28:38.479 --> 01:28:45.039
and lastly, but certainly not leastly, Joelty Partner who composed our Urship Starship

1116
01:28:45.239 --> 01:28:48.640
song, our main theme was composed
by mister Tosin Alifessa. Please go down

1117
01:28:48.680 --> 01:28:54.119
to the show notes, click on
his name you some of its business.

1118
01:28:54.399 --> 01:29:02.439
If you would like to see Aspen
gesticulate such as this, then you can

1119
01:29:02.520 --> 01:29:06.479
hop over to our YouTube channel.
Just click the show notes YouTube dot com

1120
01:29:06.520 --> 01:29:13.520
slash at Trek Wars Pod again delicious
of grandeur. Folks. Thank you so

1121
01:29:13.840 --> 01:29:18.319
much. Uh, I say this
to everyone, uh and by I say

1122
01:29:18.319 --> 01:29:20.439
this to everyone. I say this
to everyone that comes on the podcast.

1123
01:29:20.640 --> 01:29:25.920
I love y'all. Thank you so
much for coming on the podcast. Uh

1124
01:29:25.960 --> 01:29:30.840
and Aspen, I love you.
I love you and listeners, we love

1125
01:29:30.960 --> 01:29:36.079
y'all so much. Thank you so
much for listening. Uh live blog and

1126
01:29:36.119 --> 01:29:40.279
prosper and maybe force me with you
snailed it